Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island
Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.
Update 1: As referenced on KOIN, a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair. Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing. The possible “hair” was sent for testing.
Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.
Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman, Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.
It is also the former home of a man considered to be Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results. Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.
Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.
David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle and is being cared for by a friend of the family. Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this breaking story.
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@MbS
Didn’t Kantor say the parties could go forward with their discovery? (e.g. Depositions) Or was he implying after the case management meetings, and after he receives their responses to the three questions?
@Concerned citizen
If you have the family tree on TJ
Does he in fact have a couple of children
As I remember he would throw out a teaser
Then claim he had to go take care of the kids
Baths, dinner, bedtime
Later on he seemed to not remember the kids
I can understand he was protecting his family
But he seemed to be some one else altogether
I lost interest in him at that point
Feeling he was a fake
Rose says:
August 30, 2012 at 10:17 am
@mbs. imo just like the retired J Meisenheimer, this Judge will in NO WAY give up this case. Assignment is not merely random but also collegial. There is a Borderline’s “stickiness” to this case; likely
more than one. No one wants to let go of this family on any level.
——————–
I can see that – did it myself as a counselor and teacher. But also knew people who would decline to touch a case if they possibly could. Plus we know either side can ask for a change of judge if they wish after the trial judge (same or different) is assigned.
Rose says:
August 30, 2012 at 9:51 am
(snipped)
@mbs. imo Kaine does not have full custody due to the abatement of the divorce proceedings.
imo it’s due to the RO alone. imo if there were no RO, temp custody would be decided in divorce
court,
———————
Sorry I didn’t make that clear. And, imo, she might still have gotten supervised visitation if she had been willing to have psych tests and a custody study done.
JMO, but unless those alleged hate emails actually say something about a plan to kill or physically harm Kyron, AND they can be proved to have been written by Terri, (e.g., no one else had access to her computer and could have written them…..think Logan Storm and *I didn’t put those pictures on my computer* defense), then they won’t amount to much. However, if anyone actually saw Terri abuse Kyron in any way, physically or verbally, that might be something that would amount to motive. IMO, though, if that was out there, LE would have already found it by now and Terri would more than likely be in jail. I mean, Desiree Young & Tony themselves, never have said they thought Terri was even so much as mean to Kyron, in any way shape or form. Neither has Kaine said as much. Desiree herself seemed perfectly happy with the way Terri was raising Kyron and so was Kaine. All the others we’ve heard from have said Kyron loved Terri and vice versa and she treated him just like her own son. Even James. Many even thought Kyron WAS her son.
Being a step mom myself and step grandma as well, I happen to love mine as they were my own. Doesn’t mean I haven’t at one time or another said what a little brat one of them may have been on a particular day. I wouldn’t say I’d like to kill them, because I just don’t talk about people that way, but some people do talk like that, even if they don’t mean it. (Terri? IDK) It will be interesting to see if these emails are ever brought public, what they actually say. Don’t you think that if they were a threat to Kyron, that whomever she sent them to (if she even did) would have been alarmed at the time they were sent, and at the very least contaced Kaine or someone else in the family about them? I know Kaine seemed to think nothing of them and until I read them, I really think she was probably just venting. (Probably wishing to this day, she hadn’t.)
Anyway, I just don’t think these emails will amount to motive. Personally, I don’t think Terri Horman harmed Kyron, or arranged for his harm, however, I’m not so sure that she protected him from harms way.
I’m waaaaaay more interested in Kaine’s comments about Terri “leading a double life”. This is one of his comments that sticks in the back of my mind. What exactly has LE uncovered about Terri that would constitute a “double life” that might have been the cause of Kyron’s disappearance?
@Malty says:
August 29, 2012 at 7:05 pm
@T Ruth
So sad about the lady thanks for the info
I agree with the things you hope this suit finds out
And want Desiree to find Kyron
Yet some how I think she is taking suit with the wrong person
I can see a case against the school staff
But what do I know
I just hope they can locate some of the people
Who have disappeared
———————————————————-
Can a negligence suit still be filed against Skyline?
I think the double life had to do with the sexting. TH looked to be set up by KH and MC, but there was a reason for the set up to begin with, something they knew and were trying to prove. If you had a sexting biz, you might need a bat phone, for example. Could be a group of housewives that got together and decided it was a way to make extra money, and the harm could be considered less risky than phone sex.
Sexting could start out fairly anonymously, and just like contact on the computer, it could escalate into contact. One reasonable assumption to me is that TH’s involvement in this led her to RS and his associates. It could have led her to someone at the school. It could have led her to any pervert out there.
BTW, regarding wells…I think LE asked permission to search people’s properties. Not sure everyone cooperated. Failure to cooperate would raise suspicion, but in and of is self wouldn’t produce a search warrant. I think the search was focused, but not necessarily through.
All JMO, as always.
T. Ruth says:
August 30, 2012 at 3:53 pm
snip>
I’m waaaaaay more interested in Kaine’s comments about Terri “leading a double life”. This is one of his comments that sticks in the back of my mind. What exactly has LE uncovered about Terri that would constitute a “double life” that might have been the cause of Kyron’s disappearance?
T. Ruth says:
August 30, 2012 at 2:11 pm
@MbS
Didn’t Kantor say the parties could go forward with their discovery? (e.g. Depositions) Or was he implying after the case management meetings, and after he receives their responses to the three questions?
———————————-
I’m really not sure T. Ruth. That could be true, but it could also be that he just allowed the one of James to be early. Hopefully, someone who knows will let us both know. It’s only a few weeks until the case management hearing – I think Blink said October 15th.
Early Birthday Wishes for Kyron!
Born 9/9/2002 – Missing Since 6/4/2010
Happy Birthday dear Kyron you are about to turn ten
as another summer passes without you again.
I pray every day that your family will learn
The answers they seek and for your return.
May peace be with you today and tomorrow
May time and knowledge ease your loved ones’ sorrow.
God Bless you dear Kryon, please be strong.
Our prayers for you remain lifelong.
Dear Kyron, Your smile has forever captured our hearts. I hope where ever you are you are able to feel the immence love and prayers that are sent out to you daily. Birthday Hugs!
IMO Kyron went from youngest child to only child to oldest child all in a few months
He had to be confused
When mommy had a baby girl she always wanted
And fussed over
Terri had baby blues or what ever the uptodate
Term is according to Kaine
She could well vented about Kyron
But if she planned to do something to him I would think she would
Fawn all over him to people
I would think she would have a perfect alibi
And be some where not on back roads
So far I just have not been convinced
They trusted her with his care to long
Her Double life in fact we all have a double life of sorts
One as a mom another as wife and yet another if employed
I doubt if I would like her much if I knew her
But I don’t really think that matters
She probably wouldn’t like me either
T Ruth says:I’m waaaaaay more interested in Kaine’s comments about Terri “leading a double life”. This is one of his comments that sticks in the back of my mind. What exactly has LE uncovered about Terri that would constitute a “double life” that might have been the cause of Kyron’s disappearance?
_________
Agreed. Whatever the facts regarding her double life, neither she nor LE nor Kaine want that information released to the public for some reason. It must be highly meaningful to the case.
I believe this ‘double life’ is the real reason she has not asked for court ordered visitation with Kiara… well, that and the psyche testing. I agree with MBS that she is avoiding psyche testing at all costs.
Here is a KPTV video about AMW story:
http://www.kptv.com/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=7669150
@Malty
I don’t have minor children confirmed but believe TJ does have a couple. I confirmed all the adults in the family with obits and the information about his fathers recent passing.
@Blink.
Do you know how long Kaine & Desiree were married?
How long, if at all, they lived together beforehand?
How would a cold case team go about reassessing?
What are the cold case team possibilities? (fbi, PPB?)
Would a cold case team look for similar priors, or do you think this was SZ’s first
escalation?
I don’t see what investigation civil case discovery can do
that a cold case team couldn’t do better.
@TRuth, while Kaine said Terri “led a double life,” he did not overtly connect that to the disappearance. The connotation is negative, but he didn’t make that overt either.
With 3 kids of disparate ages & needs, I don’t think she got up to much except online. There it’s easy to lead a double life and many do, not criminally.
In retrospect, I think Terri was a necessary beard for Kaine when Desiree returned to the States & wanted Kyron back. Terri was by then the mother attachment & could be presented as his stable female partner needed to fend off Desiree, the single parent who worked. Without Terri, Kaine was on an equal playing field with Desiree in terms of physical custody.
The question is why he married Terri, as he had a stable live-in going. My guess is she demanded it for her security. But, she found marriage changed nothing (financial respect & security; workload).
As for the Xmas 911 that LE refuses to release when their public norm is to release, originally I assumed it was a physical marital fight seeking police mediation. Now I think it possibly a suicidal gesture from Terri. The question is whether twould be Borderline style or a reactive depression to Kaine’s MO, like Desiree had. The latter might be a useful defense. The former, not so. On the other hand, the only reason I can think
of that LE wouldn’t release is that call involved Terri/Kaine calling in on one of their own who’d be shown in a bad light–of those I can think of 2 case name candidates.
http://www.kptv.com/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=7669150
In this video the reporter says that “John Walsh has studied the evidence in this case and believes TH is the key”. Then John Walsh says “all the evidence points to her (TH). She’s the big question mark…”
————-
Blink, I would assume that John Walsh would not be privy to LE’s evidence, am I wrong about that?
At this point there are a lot of people pointing their fingers at TH besides DY & KH. The fire is getting hotter, IMO, and I’m hoping something will come of it.
He would not. Definitely. I am anxious to hear what he is referring to as evidence though.
Studied evidence in an ongoing open criminal matter? A member of the media?
An open civil case? Someone is going to edit that content or…
That is going to be the FOIA onslaught this case needs, so I am all for it.
I am a huge fan of Mr. and Mrs. Walsh, he is just trying to progress this case.
B
http://www.kptv.com/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=7669150
Above, clip of the AMW filming with Kaine & Walsh. It airs September 14 on Lifetime. Walsh says all the evidence points to Terri. Hmmmmm, what does he know that we don’t? What evidence? Gosh, I hope we get an update from MCSO soon.
evidence could be stuff Kaine had that he
independently provided like computer content (emails)
How sad this all is. First he (or maybe Terri was the driving force), takes Desiree’s “friend” [DY] away and then he takes her baby. So Desiree is left with nothing. And then when Kaine has both, Terri loses Desiree’s baby from her.And Kaine loses both.
And this might be a kind of sick “payback” to Kaine for taking both the friend and the baby away from Desiree. Like karma?
@Rose says: August 31, 2012 at 11:26 am
In retrospect, I think Terri was a necessary beard for Kaine when Desiree returned to the States & wanted Kyron back. Terri was by then the mother attachment & could be presented as his stable female partner needed to fend off Desiree, the single parent who worked. Without Terri, Kaine was on an equal playing field with Desiree in terms of physical custody.
Well, he might get some of those worms out of the woodwork who are looking for their 10 minutes of fame. It would be ideal if he would also bring up David Durham, wouldn’t it? I think they would get bites from that sooner than tips for finding Kyron.
@10.Idahogal says: August 31, 2012 at 11:27 am
Blink wrote:
I am a huge fan of Mr. and Mrs. Walsh, he is just trying to progress this case
Blink, what is FOIA? (sorry, I’m so dumb)
Yes, how could Walsh be privy to evidence, when even Rosenthal & Houze aren’t? Has Mr. Horman shared evidence with him that LE shared with him? This whole case has become one huge media event. Good in a way, I guess, to keep Kyron’s name out there if he’s out there somewhere, but I don’t think it’s gonna help solve this case if he’s not. Why do I get the feeling that everyone involved is grasping at the same straws we are……sigh.
My bad T.Ruth- you are most certainly not dumb. FOIA= Freedom of Information Act
B
Rose says:
August 31, 2012 at 11:26 am
(snipped)
“As for the Xmas 911 that LE refuses to release when their public norm is to release, originally I assumed it was a physical marital fight seeking police mediation. Now I think it possibly a suicidal gesture from Terri. The question is whether twould be Borderline style or a reactive depression to Kaine’s MO, like Desiree had. The latter might be a useful defense. The former, not so. On the other hand, the only reason I can think of that LE wouldn’t release is that call involved Terri/Kaine calling in on one of their own who’d be shown in a bad light–of those I can think of 2 case name candidates.”
@ Rose – The suicidal gesture (I agree more likely than an actual attempt) definitely fits with my impression of Terri’s personality, which of course, must be based on reports rather than her own statement. I’ve never believed that postpartum depression was a major factor because (1) I’m very familiar with it and even though it varies, it just never seemed to fit her as an ongoing condition (beyond a few weeks maybe), (2) that information came from Kaine but he didn’t seem to know much about it or what she was taking other than “medication” – normally, a spouse and other parent would be enlisted (with permission) by the doctor to help monitor the one who was depressed to make sure the child was safe (which never seemed to be an issue) and that she was taking her medication – she could have said no, but that could also have led to a more active role by the doctor, and (3) IMO, a suicidal gesture fits better with her tendency to lie.
Your guess would explain one reason why she would not want her medical records subpoenaed and why Kaine’s lawyer mentioned medical records in their filing – they both knew that could be a huge issue. Also – if anything like this happened at that time, she would have been expected to follow up with some sort of counseling and that recommendation/referral would most likely show in the records – if she did NOT follow up with counseling, it looks (is) even worse. She could also have explained it away by saying she drank too much and “no big deal”, but the 911 call documents a level of seriousness at the time.
If there were something like this as the reason for the 911 call, I can see it not being released because it could be considered evidence of her state of mind building up to the mfh.
I wonder if James was home when the 911 call was made, or if he and Kyron were conveniently visiting their other parents. I also wonder if this was another event that Kaine didn’t tell Desiree about and she found out from LE in their briefings – it could lead her to make that statement about understanding Terri’s feelings since she had also lived with Kaine. Maybe that wasn’t the first time Desiree said that to her and that’s why she kept getting the long, venting emails from Terri – and why Desiree didn’t look at it as a flaw in Terri’s personality back then, because she also found it easy to blame Kaine.
I can imagine Kaine as stubborn, fixated on the way he wanted things to be, controlling and demanding, but I don’t see him as threatening, violent, etc. I can see him just standing his ground and putting up a wall instead of listening. He seems too clueless to even be a good manipulator. However, I think if either of them had actually gone to court with a good attorney and been prepared to do the divorce battle dance, he might have had to give up some of his control and money – unless he really had something negative he could prove about the other person. It’s quite possible Desiree realized how awful that battle is for kids and chose not to go there as long as Kyron seemed OK. It would have taken a lot for her to reverse the custody legally and Desiree just didn’t have those reasons (about Kaine and/or Terri) to present to a court then.
Terri may have thought she had a lot of years ahead of her with Kiara and having to deal with Kaine in and after a divorce. I suspect in the early years she did her share of manipulating Kaine and getting her way – he didn’t give her the red car for “nothing”. But even though she had been pretty successful at manipulating key people in her life for many, many years, it didn’t always work with Kaine when he dug in his heels, especially about money. Sometimes a suicidal gesture can seem like a great manipulative tool.
OT, issue was mentioned here earlier when shoes with feet kept washing up in BC and WA beaches, so here is the most recent
snipped
“Child-size shoes with flesh, bones found on B.C. beach: Three children’s-size shoes with possible human remains inside are being examined by police after they washed up on a beach on Vancouver Island, according to Canadian media reports. The three shoes contain bones and “meat-like material . . .”
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Childrens-size-shoes-with-flesh-bones-found-on-BC-beach-168169796.html
I thought Terri was the one that brought the
911 call to attention
Or Houze
I just thought it was a after the Holiday fight
Or what ever
Kaine could also have a double life
Unless Terri’s name is on that red car
It is not a gift in my opinion
Wouldn’t work for me
MockingbirdSings says:
August 31, 2012 at 9:23 pm
Rose says:
August 31, 2012 at 11:26 am
(snipped)
As for the Xmas 911 that LE refuses to release when their public norm is to release, originally I assumed it was a physical marital fight seeking police mediation. Now I think it possibly a suicidal gesture from Terri. The question is whether twould be Borderline style or a reactive depression to Kaine’s MO, like Desiree had. The latter might be a useful defense. The former, not so. On the other hand, the only reason I can think of that LE wouldn’t release is that call involved Terri/Kaine calling in on one of their own who’d be shown in a bad light–of those I can think of 2 case name candidates.”
——————————————
I have always wondered if the 911 call was made by Terri because she thought she heard someone on the property. Terri did seem to me to have a tendency to call 911 for any real or imagined suspicious activity. It would make sense that LE would see something like that case sensitive and want to tuck it away with the rest of the information they do not want to share with Terri’s defense team or the public.
@ Malty. from Terri’s point of view all Kaine gave her was a roof over James’ head & the appearance of a family for him. The need for that was over. She’d probably realized he was 99 percent hard work & was ready to be outta there but hadn’t figured out how.
@erose. brilliant deduction on the sexting being the double life. I agree that explains the natire of the probable set up.
It seems to me what she sent, besides flirtation, was the body building pictures.
Kaine not a manipulator? Got a restaurant hostess virtual stranger to move in & pick up his new infant from day care in the afternoon & take care of him til his Mom got off work & picked him up. Likely only managed that bcz Terri didn’t have night duty too. When a bit older, gets her to take on 24/7 & refuses to return toddler to mother. Gives a hot car but not in the giftee’s name. Does not put name on deed after marriage, yet uses her to do the work on the house. They found each other.
erose, Yes, why did he not expand on this “double life”? I think that’s an excellent theory of what Kaine may be referring to as a “double life”, as well as an explanation as to how it’s possible Terri let the vampire in the door. I hate social networking for letting these vampires into our children’s lives.
Malty, yes, Kaine may also have been leading a double life. Who knows maybe Terri was having sexting affairs while Kaine was getting his “dating card” filled. I don’t really care about who was doing whom, but, by golly, if either one of these parents have something to hide that may have caused Kyron’s disappearance, they need to speak up. There may just be someone involved in the same type(s) of behavior that has an idea what happened to Kyron or where he is or someone who can put 2 and 2 together once the data is out there.
I agree Malty, the Stang was a loaner. Why else not put her name on the registration? Might even have been somewhat of an apologetic *peace offering*. I think your right about the 911 call being requested by Houze/Bunch. Why would Terri be requesting it, if it shone some sort of bad light on her.
I’ve read elsewhere, not sure if it’s true, that an ambulance was dispatched to the Horman home at the time of the December 2009 911 call, so, if true, I don’t think it was for someone lurking around the property. When one looks at Terri’s FB pictures of that time, everything looks lovely. Her comments sound up. Of course, who knows what goes on behind closed doors. There’s a bunch of Christmas presents under the tree, looks just wonderful for the kids. Which makes me wonder if on December 26 an argument ensued between Kaine & Terri in regards to her “spending all his money”.
Who knows, but if that’s all it was, why would LE not release that 911 tape? One would think it must have something to do with the circumstantial case they’re building against Terri, right? I mean, no matter what, there’s no reason for LE to be *protecting* Kaine, even if they are focused on Terri. So just what is on that call? Did one of them lash out at the kids? Did either one of them threaten to take the kids and get out? Why would Bunch/Houze be so interested in it?
I just want Kyron found and I want to see our children safe in their schools, as I think we all do. Beautiful poem, Soul Desire, thanks for sharing.
My bad T.Ruth- you are most certainly not dumb. FOIA= Freedom of Information Act
B
*******
Thanks, but I should have been able to figure that one out. Duh.
Rose says:
September 1, 2012 at 10:38 am
Kaine not a manipulator? Got a restaurant hostess virtual stranger to move in & pick up his new infant from day care in the afternoon & take care of him til his Mom got off work & picked him up. Likely only managed that bcz Terri didn’t have night duty too. When a bit older, gets her to take on 24/7 & refuses to return toddler to mother. Gives a hot car but not in the giftee’s name. Does not put name on deed after marriage, yet uses her to do the work on the house. They found each other.
——————————————————————-
I agree with the ideas you observe here. Unforunately I’m old enough to know that a lot of marriages around me were/are based on things being in the husband’s name only. “The Wife” in these types of marriages is a job filled, not a union with a person.
I would want to ask TH why she put up with being treated that way. It’s possible IMO that she just stewed about it after a few years, once she realized that she was nothing but the maid and childcare service for a guy who viewed everything in the marriage as “his.”
Again I’ll note that this hints to me how very, very different DY and TH are as women. DY seemed to not hesitate to offload KH once she realized the kind of person he is. TH stuck it out, and probably just didn’t have the self-respect or self-confidence to stand up for herself. Then she snapped? She became irrational? Hard to tell at this point. IF she had anything to do with Kyron’s abduction, I certainly hope a very, very clear picture of that involvement comes to light, and not this 2+ years of speculation just dragged out for another decade.
And I still say that DY is looking for the civil suit to expose a lot more about KH, not just to rig a noose for TH.
@T Ruth
I didn’t know FOIA and should have asked
Sometimes a woman gets household items for Christmas instead of
Personal items and gets mad/insulted
Fights start
Maybe something like that happened
Things thrown around and so on
I can’t remember Kiara’s birthday
Was she born shorty before this 911 call
Help me
erose says:
August 30, 2012 at 6:07 pm
(snipped)
I think the double life had to do with the sexting. TH looked to be set up by KH and MC, but there was a reason for the set up to begin with, something they knew and were trying to prove. If you had a sexting biz, you might need a bat phone, for example. Could be a group of housewives that got together and decided it was a way to make extra money, and the harm could be considered less risky than phone sex.
Sexting could start out fairly anonymously, and just like contact on the computer, it could escalate into contact. One reasonable assumption to me is that TH’s involvement in this led her to RS and his associates. It could have led her to someone at the school. It could have led her to any pervert out there.
——————————
Rose says:
June 27, 2012 at 9:02 pm
(snipped)
resarching Michael Cook to see what he’s up to these days, it suddenly came to me if he coordinated with Kaine ( which has always made sense), then the legally tittilating aspect of the sexting–that texts mirrored Terri’s & RS–was fed to him as a model by Kaine based on knowledge frim LE, or more likely orchestrated by LE via Kaine.
————————
(MBS replied)
That’s what I thought at the time – LE was involved to some extent. I don’t know why they would have shown Kaine the sexting to the LS unless they thought he could identify her pictures (ick). set-up? not if you don’t sext
http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Police-Terri-Hormans-sexting-mirrored-talk-with-landscaper-98369624.html (KGW staff, July 13, 2010)
Monday’s court filing also stated that police had told Kaine that Terri’s “sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent (Terri Horman) attempted to hire to murder Petitioner (Kaine).”
——————
September 1 already –
@erose – You have a really good thought there.
I don’t think LE would have gotten as interested if only the body building pictures had been sent out – they were available online for anyone who wanted to look at that sort of thing. Bodybuilding pictures are not my idea of “sexting”, not that I’ve ever sent or received such.
Erose says – “Could be a group of housewives that got together and decided it was a way to make extra money, and the harm could be considered less risky than phone sex.”
Does anybody have a clue how this could work as a business if you are just a group of housewives doing it on your own? How do you get your number(s) out there to clients? Craigslist? ads? Bathroom walls? Networking in the right circles? How do you get paid? PayPal? If you started with sexting, what would be the logical next steps for someone who wanted more? I don’t want to start a business, just wondering what directions the contacts would go.
Unless the sexting involves someone who doesn’t want to receive it (harassment) or a minor, it doesn’t appear to be illegal. I guess you could be in trouble if you were making money and not paying taxes, but that seems to be about all. Same with phone sex. Pictures seem to lead to more risk of harm, IMO, since they can be posted online and more easily identified.
Also was thinking about why Kaine married Terri which has been discussed recently – I think it’s true she wanted a home for James since they had moved a lot, and Kaine wanted his version of that for Kyron (or for Kyron’s custody, which ever you lean toward), but it’s possible they both preferred marriage for a long term relationship (and benefits like health insurance). I’ve also wondered if she pushed to get married because she wanted another child. They must have talked about it because Kaine said he thought they agreed not to have a child. He said he was surprised, but that doesn’t mean it was a total accident that Kiara came along. And for all we’ve said about Kaine and his personality and not wanting another child, it appears that he is willing and able to see Kiara as a separate person whom he loves regardless of who her mother is or what he thinks she may have done. If I’m right, he should be commended for that.
@ T.Ruth – Houze and Bunch want to know everything – even if it’s negative about her – so they can defend and/or protect her interests. Didn’t they ask for all 911 calls for the previous 6 months when they first requested?
Question for anyone who knows: The house was in Kaine’s name we were told (although she chose the house and property), but I haven’t read where the Mustang (birthday present, as I recall) was too (if Blink said, I missed it). Do we know for sure it wasn’t in both their names? Either way, putting something in only one person’s name could also be part of a bigger financial plan or because she didn’t have the credit rating to qualify for a loan, or any number of things.
I have a hard time calling what Kaine does “manipulation” because it seems so straightforward and obvious a part of his personality, but who knows what goes on between 2 people. Maybe what made her so upset was that she couldn’t change the results of his personality no matter what she did?
If TH helped choose the home, and it was purchased in contemplation of marriage, which it clearly was, it is a a marital asset, regardless of the reason for it being just in Kaine’s name. For all we know, his employer could have provided relocation assistance or it is tied in with TH school funding.
The car was registered in Kaine’s name, but that does not mean it is not in both, per se. Both our vehicles are registered in both our names, but because his is first, it is the only that fits in the registration card, but it is on file with the DMV. It was likely in Kaine’s name due to insurance reasons because of TH DUI if I were to speculate.
Again, not being familiar with Oregon community property law specifically, but generally this works this same overall, and frankly if it did not there would be no need to abate the divorce.
B
Anyone in California?
http://www.kgw.com/news/1-year-old-taken-by-non-custodial-father-in-Eugene-168273936.html
EUGENE — A 1-year-old girl was taken by her non-custodial father in Eugene during a supervised visit Friday.
Authorities are on the lookout for 46-year-old Angelo Louis Muniz of Lebanon, Ore. after he took his daughter Perfection Angelas whom he did not have custody of.
Their last know location was at a K.O.A. campground in Crescent City, Caif. and authorities are on the lookout for a gray 1991 Mazda truck with 205 BPV plates.
Angelas was described as wearing a white shirt with a kitty on the front, pink pants, yellow socks and white shoes.
Anyone with information is asked to call 911.
@Malty
Kiara was born in ’08′ the December 911 call was in Dec ’09′ so I would think that Kiara was about 1 yrs old when the December 26 call was made.
@MbS
She’s been found.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Amber-Alert-over-girl-found-safe-and-father-is-in/YUMJvfQJH0mvzkqJ0ZDuGA.cspx
Yes from CA, That is near Oregon border
MockingbirdSings says:
September 1, 2012 at 6:02 pm
Anyone in California?
http://www.kgw.com/news/1-year-old-taken-by-non-custodial-father-in-Eugene-168273936.html
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Child was found and father arrested.
That whole supervised visit deal is scary to me. I understand why the supervisors of visits do not physically try and stop a parent from walking out the door with a child, or children, but if that’s your child or grandchild, it doesn’t make you feel any better about it or feel that supervised visitation is very safe. It doesn’t happen often, but no child should go through that.
Even though DHS knew who took the 1 1/2 year old child and had the description to put out for an Amber Alert, he still got all the way from Eugene, Oregon, to Arcata, California.
Maybe DHS could take away shoes and empty their pockets until they check out at least.
Idahogal says:
August 31, 2012 at 11:27 am
Snipped>>>
That is going to be the FOIA onslaught this case needs, so I am all for it.
I am a huge fan of Mr. and Mrs. Walsh, he is just trying to progress this case.
B
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I googled FOIA as well, just to be sure, LOL!
Thank you for the reply Blink, I pray you are right. Let this be the snowball that starts an avalanche.
amychika says:
September 1, 2012 at 2:37 am
Snipped>>>
OT, issue was mentioned here earlier when shoes with feet kept washing up in BC and WA beaches, so here is the most recent
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Childrens-size-shoes-with-flesh-bones-found-on-BC-beach-168169796.html
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I read an article in Nat Geo about the tsunami in Japan. It said that in the coming years the West Coast will receive a lot of debris (like the fishing dock that came ashore over here)from it. It also said human remains, in particular shoes with remains, should be expected.
If this is correct, there will be more of these incidents in the future. As for all of the pre-tsunami shoes & feet in BC, IDK what to think of that, it is bizarre.
erose says:
August 30, 2012 at 6:07 pm
Snipped>>>
BTW, regarding wells…I think LE asked permission to search people’s properties. Not sure everyone cooperated. Failure to cooperate would raise suspicion, but in and of is self wouldn’t produce a search warrant. I think the search was focused, but not necessarily through.
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@erose-
Great post, has me thinking. I would hate to think they failed to search area wells and septic tanks. There were so many different searches done, and maybe a few we didn’t even hear about. IDK how LE would find out where every well & septic system are, there could be hundreds of them, some very old as well. I wonder if anyone refused to let them search their property, and if so, whom? You are so right about having to get a SW, it takes more than a whim, but this was an extraordinary situation. Hmmm…
there was a well on the Skyline soccer field. iirc they did something involving it when they laid the new turf & installed the sprinkler system in the year before Kyron disappeared. Maybe that work was defective. If so, PPS won’t go look
in that old well on their field imo
fwiw, wells and sisterns, retaining ponds are typically the first places searched on properties when it involves a missing person. Many times however, that requires permission from the owner or a company to access it so it is not an immediate thing.
B
“If TH helped choose the home, and it was purchased in contemplation of marriage, which it clearly was, it is a a marital asset, regardless of the reason for it being just in Kaine’s name. For all we know, his employer could have provided relocation assistance or it is tied in with TH school funding.
The car was registered in Kaine’s name, but that does not mean it is not in both, per se. Both our vehicles are registered in both our names, but because his is first, it is the only that fits in the registration card, but it is on file with the DMV. It was likely in Kaine’s name due to insurance reasons because of TH DUI if I were to speculate.
Again, not being familiar with Oregon community property law specifically, but generally this works this same overall, and frankly if it did not there would be no need to abate the divorce.”
Oregon is an equitable-distribution state, not a community-property state. Terri Horman is probably entitled to the difference of what Kaine Horman’s assets were worth between the time of marriage and the time of separation. Considering what happened between 2007 and 2010 with real-estate values and investments, Terri Horman could end up with nothing, or close to it. And I’m sure Kaine will insist on a credit for the child support Terri hasn’t been able to pay for the past two plus years.
Couples who buy a house in contemplation of marriage usually get the house in both names.
Thank you, I should have been clearer and used the term marital assets, not community property in this instance.
Equitable distribution also considers TH contribution for her “obligations” to care for the children and maintenance of the home to support Kaine’s ability to work full time. In other words, his rise in income is directly proportional to her efforts, and availability and things like the nurture doctrine and tender years as they apply to Mom’s will be a consideration. I mention this because it is not just a grid that says she made this much in the marriage and he made this much so her share is $$.
She had Kyron in her primary care, and the usual standard is until the child goes to school, and then Kiara was born and she was home with her. Then comes the rehabilitative needs of the wife in that regard.
In a typical case, this can be where such a trial gets ugly-er. You saw how Rackner introduced texts that were not relative to any of that, and did so under the guise of the similarity of the mfh exchanges, but everyone knows it was a legal “bend over the barrell” techinque. (pun intended if you read the texts.) It is designed to impeach the credibility of the character of the defendant in front of the court in an effort to effect distribution.
As far as any support for Kiara, we don’t know if their is an agreement in place already, but we do know that there is a stipulation to “pay support as agreed” and their is no current case pending against TH.
A credit for support against distribution overall, maybe but there is no way to retroactively order “unallocated support”. Meaning child support and alimony or spousal support are usually two separate issues. One is in fact taxable to the obligor, the other is not. That CAN be used in distribution discussion of the that state allows all to be included in an overall property settlement agreement, but many make the parenting agreement and support a separate issue.
If TH is not indicted or facing any criminal charges by the time the abatement ends, this will proceed and I doubt much of what was introduced already will repeat itself.
If she is charged it is a pretty moot issue, and I believe Kaine is operating under that premise.
It is interesting to me he is not moving to proceed given the civil suit, I suspect the other side of this coin has a story to tell as well, if it can.
I respectfully disagree on the contemplation of marriage issue for home purchase as “most couples purchase the home in both names”, many do, but in situations of remarriages in particular, their is often a FHA or other advantage one may be open to, or other issues relative to a divorce agreement, etc.
First time married, I would agree with you.
B
B
MockingbirdSings says:
September 1, 2012 at 5:58 pm
(Blink says – snipped)
Again, not being familiar with Oregon community property law specifically, but generally this works this same overall, and frankly if it did not there would be no need to abate the divorce.
B
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Thanks, I was trying to show that whose name is on what doesn’t always mean someone is selfish or controlling.
Oregon isn’t a community property state like California, for example. My experience has been that they look at what each has contributed and at the difference in earning power and how much help one or the other needs to make it through the next few years, etc. Oregon has a formula for child support now. Nobody “wins,” but it has cut down on a lot of the arguing and running back and forth to court. The formula is posted online so anyone thinking of a divorce can see what it’s likely to be.
My understanding generally is that Terri wanted the abatement to avoid the custody/visitation study and possibly being questioned about where the money for Houze came from, but then said she would agree to the actual divorce and to postponing the property division issues, but Kaine decided to keep everything “as is” until the abatement ended likely hoping to force her to testify at the divorce hearing and to avoid paying her spousal support after what he believed she had done. That is my nutshell version except that I think there are probably a lot of other pros, cons, if’s, and’s, and but’s floating around on both sides.
the double life could also mean Terri was dating around thru her usual means (Craigslist sounds as good a bet as any), looking for the next live in or marriage gig. Both Kaine & Terri had led double marital lives before sexually with the next candidate.
Even if Terri was not on the title for ins purchase, the ins contract owner still has to give the co names of regular household drivers like Terri & James and cover them. Otherwise to drive those cars, Terri would have to buy separate ins thru tge State or another provider.
O/T
Parents’ Facebook sting helps catch sex offender
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/02/13617316-parents-facebook-sting-helps-catch-sex-offender?lite
Way to go!
FWIW, both my husband and my names appear on the registration card of all our vehicles, as well as on the insurance policies. (I never changed my maiden name.) JMO, but since Terri was the main driver of the Mustang, she would be covered by the insurance policy regardless of her DUI and would be listed on the policy. My husband and I also both appear on the real property documents as well, (we bought our home together many years ago, before we were legally married), as “joint tenants”.
There is no good reason I can think of for Terri Horman’s name not to be on any of the above documents, unless Mr. Horman didn’t want her to be. In my opinion marriage is all about sharing and caring for one another, sounds to me like that marriage was very, very one sided. I have no idea whether or not it has anything to do with Kyron gone missing, but when a husband makes a public comment about his wife out “spending all HIS money”, as opposed to our money, something is very wrong with that marriage. She was required to check with him first before she spent anything. (See both quotes below.) What’s that old saying? What’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine too.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html
Terri also told friends that Kaine tried to control her spending.
“Controlling with my money — yeah,” Kaine said, “because she was spending all of it. She was going out and spending it like water and not checking with me where we should be spending our money.”
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http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html
The above was a quote from Kaine (one of the reasons the O was almost thrown off *Kaine’s team*, I believe), which, pretty much substantiates Terri’s own email sent to some friend:
In the April 6 e-mail obtained by KATU News, Terri writes the following about Kaine: “I have to ask him before I go out to meet anyone. I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn’t – spent all of my 30k to do so. …
“I am The one who was able to get him glasses (I noticed at 6 months when I was working with him but Kaine wouldn’t go in to a doc until he was 2 years – yeah – he’s farsighted 750)). He’s on me about being fat. Wants me to do another show. Makes me pay $1000 a month to him for bills although it’s my child support and unemployment. I do all the yard work, house work, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters.”
What do we make of him wanting her to do another show? Was there financial benefits to that?
B
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Obviously neither were happy campers.
@NelMel says:
September 1, 2012 at 2:10 pm
(snipped)
Again I’ll note that this hints to me how very, very different DY and TH are as women. DY seemed to not hesitate to offload KH once she realized the kind of person he is. TH stuck it out, and probably just didn’t have the self-respect or self-confidence to stand up for herself.
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Hi NelMel, do you know something I don’t? Do you know that Desiree Young “offloaded” Kaine Horman? Kaine says they were already living apart when he had his affair with Terri. How do we know that Kaine Horman did not “offload” Desiree? Maybe even because he didn’t want a child. Are you just assuming because she was the one who filed for divorce, that she threw Kaine out? IDK, but I’m thinking Kaine Horman just up and left a very pregnant Desiree Horman, which explains her crying for months and then divorcing his sorry butt. Just wondering.
I do totally agree with you that Desiree & Terri are very different people. Although I bet they have more in common than they ever thought they would, as indicated by Desiree’s last letter to Terri.
What do we make of him wanting her to do another show? Was there financial benefits to that?
B
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Hmmm, good question. I never thought about monetary or anything else, I just thought that, if true, he wanted her to lose the weight again and buff up. You made me think of something else……steroids. Hmmmmm.