Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island
Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.
Update 1: As referenced on KOIN, a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair. Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing. The possible “hair” was sent for testing.
Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.
Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman, Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.
It is also the former home of a man considered to be Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results. Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.
Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.
David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle and is being cared for by a friend of the family. Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this breaking story.
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MockingbirdSings says: June 22, 2012 at 1:15 am
snipped @ Blink: To date, I have never connected her to SZ, and to my knowledge, no witness nor LEO has either, or she would be in jail.
______________________________
If LE hasn’t made a connection between SZ and TH or any other family member, how can they say that this case is isolated?
If Kaine and DY have been informed that Kyron was seen with SZ outside the school after Terri left…. AND…. they have also been informed that there is no known connection between Kyron, Terri and/or any other family member, why is she hell-bent that Terri is involved?
You would have to ask her January, but it is likely that she believes TH orchestrated SZ’s involvement.
B
Sorry.. one more I dunno.. Why isn’t Terri’s attorney saying “bring it on?” There can’t be enough evidence with either the MFH or the kidnapping charges, can there? I’d say bring it on, or drop it.. this is the only part of the whole thing that makes me suspect about Terri.. going two years without my child? I don’t think so.
Amy’s Sister says:
June 21, 2012 at 9:36 pm
Knowing she was not at the school changes all of that. Do we KNOW whether or not Terri was still on the school premises at the time Kyron was taken?
————–
There was no Amber Alert, because not a soul saw him leave. He is out by 9:45AM-10AM.
B
————
if Kyron disappeared at 9:45 – 10:00AM and Terri was seen by Andrea Leckey at FM 2 at between 9:30 – 10:00AM then I would guess that Terri was not at he school when Kyron went missing.
-snip
That same day, between 9:30 and 10 a.m., Andrea Leckey ran into his stepmother, Terri Horman, at a Fred Meyer Department store in Beaverton, west of Portland. Lecky said it was the longest encounter they ever had.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20013828-504083.html
TH was not on school grounds when Kyron left the building. Multiple witnesses can attest to that, and did, as you can see by the link cd provided.
B
I thought those FBI folks did a victimology profile that first weekend. that special abdu crion team. I thought that was what they were there for?
It was likely both that and offender.
B
Excellent post MBS. How they got from can’t rule out stranger to stranger to isolated incident in 3 days?
I think there was a real role reversal with mcso taking their cue from the bios’s beliefs and I think that was due to the psychological profile and work experience of the lead mcso detective as described in his own interview in the Guisto thing
Somehow I didn’t realize Kyron’s disappearance occurred 9:45-10:00. That’s a big deal because that means he was unattended, and at the time he went missing his stepmother was not even on the premises for 45 minutes at least.
Now I’m convinced, if Kyron did in fact leave the premises at 9:45-10:00, that the school is full on responsible for losing this child, science fair or no. Next obvious question is why Kaine and Desiree haven’t pursued that? It’s one thing to understand that your child’s stepmother had something to do with his disappearance, probably even instigated it, and quite another to ignore the fact that the school’s negligence enabled it to happen.
@January
(snipped)”If Kaine and DY have been informed that Kyron was seen with SZ outside the school after Terri left…. AND…. they have also been informed that there is no known connection between Kyron, Terri and/or any other family member, why is she hell-bent that Terri is involved?
You would have to ask her January, but it is likely that she believes TH orchestrated SZ’s involvement.”
B
—————————————————————–
For the same reasons Skyline school parents believe Terri is involved. My question is; if Kyron’s body were recovered i.e. from a body of water, would that give us the perp’s identity? I’d like to see the alleged emails from TH relating to her hatred of Kyron and any other electronic evidence supporting LE’s assumption of an isolated incident (wouldnt we all). TH has been on LE’s radar screen since day one. Personally, I think she has some knowledge of what went down on June 4th.
@ January says:
June 22, 2012 at 2:19 am
“Sorry.. one more I dunno.. Why isn’t Terri’s attorney saying “bring it on?” There can’t be enough evidence with either the MFH or the kidnapping charges, can there? I’d say bring it on, or drop it.. this is the only part of the whole thing that makes me suspect about Terri.. going two years without my child? I don’t think so.”
—————————————————————–
Yep, me too January.
“There was no Amber Alert, because not a soul saw him leave. He is out by 9:45AM-10AM.
B”
That’s the same time-frame TH began her 90 minute drive . . .
(snipped) “if Kyron disappeared at 9:45 – 10:00AM and Terri was seen by Andrea Leckey at FM 2 at between 9:30 – 10:00AM then I would guess that Terri was not at he school when Kyron went missing.
-snip
That same day, between 9:30 and 10 a.m., Andrea Leckey ran into his stepmother, Terri Horman, at a Fred Meyer Department store in Beaverton, west of Portland. Lecky said it was the longest encounter they ever had.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20013828-504083.html
TH was not on school grounds when Kyron left the building. Multiple witnesses can attest to that, and did, as you can see by the link cd provided.
B”
——————————————————————–
I don’t think LE has publicly disclosed the last known time Kyron was seen. My guess is he was out the door shortly after TH left which would be approx. 9:am. Is it coincidental or was SZ waiting for TH to leave before making his move? My guess is the latter.
@MockingbirdSings
(snipped) “These, then, are the only ways that I can see LE can move forward to solve this case:
1 – learn who SZ is
2 – find a gravesite or other site with discarded items such as a shirt/glasses with evidence TH, SZ, or anyone else was there
3 – find a credible witness who hasn’t come forward yet but saw SZ
4 – find photos of Kyron taken by someone after he left school
5 – find Kyron alive and able to tell what happened
6 – find written evidence of a plan to do this or a payment for having done it
7 – catch someone as they attempt to take another child in a similar way
8 – someone comes forward with information they have withheld so far –someone who knows Terri or someone who knows SZ and can put 2 and 2 together
9 – something turns up in all the computer searches and phone tracking – if they are still doing that
- would anyone like to add to the list?
——————————————————-
#8 TH herself comes forward with information.
lyla says:
June 22, 2012 at 12:18 pm
(snipped)
Is it coincidental or was SZ waiting for TH to leave before making his move? My guess is the latter.
———————-
Or, as some have speculated in the past, TH left quickly when she saw SZ was there and ready to carry out the plan because she wanted to have proof she was not around when Kyron disappeared. And, of course, we have also tossed around the idea that she met with SZ somewhere after he took Kyron. There are so many ways to spin each detail, it is like a loopy ride at the county fair. Unfortunately, the ride is stuck in the “on” position!
Blink – I have this vision of you nervously pacing the floor while waiting for your “quadruplet stories” to be born. Is the coffee pot empty yet?
Probably makes no sense, but I chuckled anyway.
LOL, oye.
B
If forensic analysis results match to Kyrons dna(God forbid), will this result in an automatic arrest to whomever(s) cell phone pinged in this area? Or would they still need a body?
Their could never be an arrest based on cell pings, ever. Outside of that, I am not sure I understand the rest of your question.
B
lyla says:
June 21, 2012 at 5:44 pm
@T. Ruth says:
June 21, 2012 at 12:04 pm
“Whoa, wait a minute. LE told parents that Terri was a suspect? Yet they’ve never told the media that, and IIRC both Kaine & Desiree were asked if LE ever called Terri a suspect and both their answers were “NO”. It was in one of the older interviews we just reviewed the other day.”
——————————————————————-
Hi T.Ruth. Whose parents are you referring to..Terri’s or Skyline parents? I know TH’s Dad was very vocal about Terri’s chances of being arrested…50% he said. Although she’s never been named a suspect LE had their sights set on her from the get-go.
***********
Lyla, I was referring to Skyline Parents, and Blink’s comment below. If LE actually was going around telling parents, it’s okay, because we “have our suspect, it’s Terri”, then I’d think this is a very big deal.
Rose says:
June 19, 2012 at 9:39 pm
@Blink. re “Most parents were told flat out Terri was a suspect.”
Told by whom?
A staff member of Skyline in newsletter or assembly?
the PTA Pres?
Or, Investigating LE detectives in the course of their interviews of parents the 490 list?
If latter, that’s nono number 1 in how to corrupt an investigation, isn’t it?
The folks I spoke to were told that by the LEO who interviewed them or other.
************
I have no idea if TH was or was not involved in Kyron’s disappearance, however, going to court with MCSO, KH and DY being convinced of her participation would not bode well for her to get her daughter back.
There are two bio parent who do not know where their child is, or if he is alive. By comparison, TH a least knows that her daughter is, and being alive and being cared for. The only advice I see her getting is to sit tight and wait for developments that may one day clear her.
It is common for LE to suspect a member of the family because statistically that is the case. There are several high profile cases where LE was wrong; Smart, Dugard, Ramsey, to name a few.
TH was by most accounts cooperating with LE until the sting. They did not believe her, which is different than her not cooperating if she was telling the truth. They said she failed her LD tests, however we cannot discern if they were truthful with that statement, and if they were, what portions of the test were not truthful.
Bottomline, pretend she is innocent for a moment, and she has been truthful. What could she possibly do that she hasn’t already done to get her child back?
Looking through some older missing kids reports, got goosebumps looking at the case of Michaela Joy Garecht. Look at the side view composite drawing of the suspect. Reminded me of DAD.
http://missingpersonsinfo.com/tag/california-missing-teen/
I think any spin machine has to rely on facts and eyewitness testimony as a basis.
JS has plenty of eyewitness testimony bug is realistically an iffy case due to PA law elements
and the fact witnesses are children by and large.
Kyron’s case has neither facts nor witnesses except one probable child ‘s glimpse of SZ.
So any camp’s spin imo has zero foundation.
lyla says:
June 22, 2012 at 12:18 pm
(snipped)
Is it coincidental or was SZ waiting for TH to leave before making his move? My guess is the latter.
———————-
It seems to me that SZ would have waited until Terri left the school because while she was at the school she was with kyron. It would seem like SZ would think it would be difficult to snatch kyron while Terri was standing right next to him so he needed to wait until she left the school.
lyla says:
June 22, 2012 at 11:57 am
For the same reasons Skyline school parents believe Terri is involved. My question is; if Kyron’s body were recovered i.e. from a body of water, would that give us the perp’s identity? I’d like to see the alleged emails from TH relating to her hatred of Kyron and any other electronic evidence supporting LE’s assumption of an isolated incident (wouldnt we all). TH has been on LE’s radar screen since day one. Personally, I think she has some knowledge of what went down on June 4th.
****
EXACTLY what I have been saying for months – isolated incident or not, TH involvement or not – a child disappeared from that school while the school was responsible for said child! HOW DID IT HAPPEN? HOW WILL IT BE PREVENTED FROM HAPPENING AGAIN? The parents of that school’s children and the community deserve to ask some questions and deserve some answers. If Ky was specifically targetted, what is stopping SZ from targetting another PPS kid – via an ‘evil step-parent’ or other?
erose says,
“Bottomline, pretend she is innocent for a moment, and she has been truthful. What could she possibly do that she hasn’t already done to get her child back?”
Fight the restraining order.
While I do agree with you in theory, I want to point out that TH was the subject of extensive hours of interrogation where she was outright told she would be arrested and would rot in jail, regardless of whether Kyron was found, and that they “had her” either in the MFH charges or Ky’s disappearance.
I do not fault LE for that necessarily as the transcripts of same have never been released, and I support LE right to lie in an interview to illicit a witness statement. I do not support anyone doing so though if they are untrained to identify a false confession.
I admit I do not understand a set of circumstances where I would be innocent of something I was suspected of, and forego my time with my infant at the threat of my loss of liberty for the rest of my life. That is prison or prison to me.
I have never been in that situation, and my initial response was as everyone else’s.
I can provide logical scenarios all day- I am at as much of a loss as the next Mom.
B
Sorry, heatwave has melted my brain. What I meant was, IF the dna matched Kyrons dna, is there a way to tell if he was deceased by analyzing the hair strands…or a way to tell if someone pulled his hair/ripped it out?
And if it was in fact Ky, wouldn’t that place further suspicion on whomevers cell phone pinged in that area.
What DNA, from where? You lost me.
B
@Lyla – ITA. There are so many missing links.
——————————————————————
Obviously, they all know things we don’t. I just think…it has to take some pretty big, solid stuff to make a mom go from:
Ex: *My son went to school today, and now he is missing. My ex-husband was at work for 1/2 of the day, and he wouldn’t hurt our son. His wife took our son to school. She watched him walk towards his classroom, and then she left. She would never hurt him either.
to
*I now firmly believe that my sons step mother is involved with his disappearance.
It could have been SO many different things that we do and do not know about, but someone(s) or something(s) have caused her to believe all of those things with her whole heart. I do not believe she is making any of this up, so is it more gut feeling or more evidence that would cause Desiree to whole-heartedly believe that this was TH orchestrated, therefore making it an “isolated event”.?
Just thinking out loud again. I should change my screen name to thinkingoutloud. Husby teases that I should change my real name to that, too ; )
@T.Ruth
(snipped) “Hi T.Ruth. Whose parents are you referring to..Terri’s or Skyline parents? I know TH’s Dad was very vocal about Terri’s chances of being arrested…50% he said. Although she’s never been named a suspect LE had their sights set on her from the get-go.
***********
Lyla, I was referring to Skyline Parents, and Blink’s comment below. If LE actually was going around telling parents, it’s okay, because we “have our suspect, it’s Terri”, then I’d think this is a very big deal.”
—————————————————————-
What are the ramifications T.Ruth? KH and DY have never waivered from their belief TH was involved although they haven’t called her a “suspect”. My brain is in low gear on this one.
Snipped from the website below:
“Sheriff hoping to find Kyron alive
Meantime, a vigil was planned for Kyron Friday at 8 p.m., at the “Wall of Hope” created outside Skyline Elementary School.
Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton said Friday that investigators were operating under the premise that Kyron is still alive, he said. He said there have been 2,877 valid leads and about 60 percent of them have been covered.
“Everyone is a person of interest,” Staton said in response to questions about any specific individuals. Staton added that there were no “serial patterns” that indicated a threat to the community.”
Full article:
http://www.kgw.com/news/Second-grade-student-missing-from-Skyline-Elementary-95670454.html
Follow up to my last post (yes, already). Some notes I had on missing links (AKA Things that we, the public, don’t know) from DY’s standpoint of firmly believing in TH’s involvement, and the root question – what lead her to these beliefs.
Could be any/all of the below (Missing Links are IMO – *Are from DY point of view):
*Witness(es) saw Ky outside of the school standing by a truck with up to 3 people in or around it.
(Missing Link – Who’s truck? Who saw the truck? Who were these people in or around the truck? Does she believe at this point that TH is connected to this truck? If so, what caused her to believe this? Evidence, or gut feeling?)
*TH sent emails expressing hatred towards Ky.
(Missing Link – Who were they sent to? Was this DY’s interpretation? Did they talk about a plot/idea/actual intention to hurt Ky? LE found it important / serious enough to share them with her, does that say something to their validity?)
*Witness(es) saw or heard a man (SZ) say Ky’s name and as they walked away, and Kyron did not look happy.
(Missing Link – Who is SZ? Did Kyron follow him out? Did SZ grab or attach him? Was there containment?)
*Kaine was told that his wife alledgedly took out a MFH on him through her landscaper. When he filed the FAPA, he lists the MFH, and on that same document, also states that he believes TH had at least some involvement in Ky’s disapearance.
(Missing Link – Did the MFH request really happen? If so, is the MFH connected to Kyron’s disappearance? Does Desiree think it is? If so, Who/How/ Why/ What caused her to believe this? Evidence, or gut feeling?)
*TH says she was at locations x,y,& z on the day Ky went missing, but they’ve learned that at certain points of the day, she was not where she said she was.
(Missing Link – Is she basing this only on cell phone ping info? For me, personally – if you take the cell phone pings completely out of the equation – you still have someone who can’t prove her alibi because there were no witnesses (that we know of) who saw her driving around for an hour and a half (even if she was driving where she says she was driving) with Kiara. Unless there is actual video/photographic evidence.)
*Kaine failed to tell her about the drinking at home, and other ‘lifestyle’ choices that DY “would never have allowed.”
(Missing Link – What other lifestyle choices? Swingers? Drugs? Does Desiree believe the lifestyle choices contributed to Kyron going missing? If so, what evidence caused her to believe this?
*LE knows there is a SZ, but does not know who he is. If they do not know who he is, they cannot connect NOR detach him from TH (or call him a non-threat, btw). DY, however, firmly believes that TH knows(SZ)who took Kyron and/or where he is.
(Missing Link – Something is causing her to believe that TH and SZ are connected. I do not – at all – believe that she is making this up. So what evidence, if any, is causing her to believe this?
Again, I was just using DY as my example here becuase she has shared a lot of information, and IMO has strong conviction and belief what she is saying. I do not think that she just made all of the above situations up – so, who gave her the information above, and did they show her proof? I am so curious becuase if there is actual proof / evidence to the things above, then maybe they’re closer than we thought.
I certainly hope they are. Hope doesn’t always have to be reality – but every once and a while….it is.
VLH says:
June 22, 2012 at 7:22 pm
Ex: *My son went to school today, and now he is missing. My ex-husband was at work for 1/2 of the day, and he wouldn’t hurt our son. His wife took our son to school. She watched him walk towards his classroom, and then she left. She would never hurt him either.
to
*I now firmly believe that my sons step mother is involved with his disappearance.
—————–
IMO From the minute that DY was told that Kyron was missing I think she thought Terri was somehow involved in his disappearance. I don’t think the she ever thought he above to be true. I think that her strong instinct that terri was involved in Kyron’s abduction influenced LE to focus on Terri not the other way around.
I do not think DY thoughts had any bearing whatsoever. 100% of the time, LE will conduct a parallel investigation to exclude family. When they can’t for whatever reasons that do not necessarily mean someone is a viable suspect
Respectfully speaking, 9 Agencies were defacto early responders to this case, they zeroed in on what they saw, and to a fault, imo.
9 out 10 times in a case like this a family member is involved, it is a powerful directive outside of any evidence pointing elsewhere. Kyron’s victimology profile is low risk, outside of the security that day.
B
The groundskeeper DS saw children outside the building looking at flowers in the flower bed…now that could have been an ideal opportunity for a random sex offender….hang around and observe for an opportunity to lure and snatch a child any child. Or does it make more sense a random sex offender would walk into a public school filled with a couple hundred or more adult/children witnesses, call out a childs name, child responds, walks out the door in chilly, rainy weather without his coat never to be seen again?. An isolated incident.
Blink,
I thought the reason that the “hair strands” were taken from MCSO was so they could run a forensic analysis on what kind of hair, animal or human…
Now I am lost, lol!
http://www.scienceonstage.net/IDoaHairDNATest.html
I think you may have abbreviated your questions, no prob.
That is a forensic question overall with many and probably inumerable variables.
Maybe give me a distilled scenario?
B
erose says:
June 22, 2012 at 2:17 pm
{snipped}
Bottomline, pretend she is innocent for a moment, and she has been truthful. What could she possibly do that she hasn’t already done to get her child back?
_______________________________________________________________
@erose,
I guess I am not familiar with anything she HAS done to try to get her child back. I think I would start with TALKING (to the media/LE/etc.) and remaining visible while actively pursuing via the court system or whatever to try to get at the very least some sort of supervised visitation or SOMETHING. Perhaps she has tried to some extent that I am not aware of.
If they have no evidence of anything against her, I cannot believe that they could refuse contact with her daughter if she truly fought with all her might and was truly innocent.
I guess I assumed the hair/scalp (that the fishermen called 911 about)was taken by MCSO and sent for analysis, sorry for the confusion.
Long day = early bed time
Sorry again!
@VLH says:
June 22, 2012 at 7:51 pm
(snipped) “Follow up to my last post (yes, already). Some notes I had on missing links (AKA Things that we, the public, don’t know) from DY’s standpoint of firmly believing in TH’s involvement, and the root question – what lead her to these beliefs”
————————————————————–
Good post….gets me to thinking. This could have been an abduction for hire involving more than one person. I don’t think he walked out of the school with a sex offender or stranger rather someone he was familiar with at some point in time. Motivation..if there is substantial proof in emails DY is referring to it could be damning to TH if she in fact wrote them. There was turmoil in the Horman household as we saw the story unfold and TH certainly did not appear to be grieving the loss of her step-son..to the contrary she was defensive and self indulgent with regard to texting MC. I fear someone did her bidding and removed Kyron no questions asked.
Blink,
I’ve read/known about the interrogations etc. and agree with you on the LE fibbing-tactics during interviews.
The Judge who awarded the initial restraining order to KH would have first sought out more information from other sources.
LE would have had to present the Judge with credible probable cause with no deceptive tactics . . . or is that naive thinking on my part?
Also, if TH fought the renewal of the restraining order, would her counsel upon request been given “everything” from the initial issuance, including KH’s, the Judge’s, LE’s?
Off topic, just announced, Sandusky jury has reached a verdict.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/22/12363955-sandusky-verdict-is-in?lite
That was my first instinct as well. If you go back far enough, you can read me stating that “she must be guilty if she does not fight the RO.” That was me considering what a guilty person would or would not do, or what an innocent person would or would not do. I am now wondering, what would an innocent person that is presumed guilty do? Show up in court and take on the presumptions of MCSO, KH, DY, TY, PPS and most the parents at Skyline? Not arguing with you, WPG, just exercising my bean. Thanks for the workout my fellow truth seeker.
wpg says:
June 22, 2012 at 6:44 pm
erose says,
“Bottomline, pretend she is innocent for a moment, and she has been truthful. What could she possibly do that she hasn’t already done to get her child back?”
Fight the restraining order.
OT
Yippeeee…Sandusky convicted of abuse on all 45 counts!!!
That post was excellent. Thanks for thinkingoutloud. I think DY’s first unsettling cue was TH’s response after DY said she was on her way to Portland (paraphrased). DY, thought that would go without saying when your child goes missing, you show up. I have given this some thought because I would consider she had an instinct to know something was not right with TH’s response. That, I believe was the beginning of DY’s doubt.
But, could TH have been of the belief that Kyron would be found before DY could even make her way to Portland? DY also makes a seemingly conflicting statement that she herself thought the situation would have been resolved that night (again, paraphrased).
Someone here said that TH “sounded the alarm” at the bus stop, because she knew how serious the situation was and while KH was concerned he was not yet worried at that point. It was TH that called 911, someone stated, (even though I believe it was the bus driver that made the call to the school and the school called 911). If it is true, that TH was sounding the alarm, then why didn’t she sound the alarm with DY? Something like, “hurry up, get up here, NOW!”
Again, not arguing, but trying to sort it all out. Could DY’s intuition have continued to escalate about TH, to the dismissal of anything else? For example, where was/is her out cry over the negligence at the school? TH could not have done this if they were doing their job of protecting Kyron, IMO.
I will play devil’s advocate here, and say completely objectively, that if TH did not physically take Kyron from the school, and she was capable of conspiring with someone to take him, then I HAVE to ask why wasn’t someone else capable of conspiring to take him?
VLH says:
June 22, 2012 at 7:51 pm
@ erose says:
June 22, 2012 at 10:31 pm
erose – Great point! I didn’t take it as an argument in the least, I seriously appreciate the response. Any additional info or reminders can be useful, and ‘sounding the alarm’ was something I hadn’t thought about. I thought the school called 911, but if it was TH, yes, that could definitely cause some doubt. There are a million more questions.
Another question you just triggered, I wonder if KH and DY (or LE) ever received an answer as to why Teri took that mothertrucking truck to the school that day. I know we’ve heard she was going to pick up the project, but if she didn’t get an answer as to when she could pick it up that day, why not just pick Kyron and the project up after school? I imagine this hypothetical convo:
KH: “where’s kyron’s project?”
THM: “Kitty’s ears were hurting bad, I needed to leave and get her medicine. I e-mailed his teacher and asked when I could pick it up, haven’t heard back yet.”
KH: “Ok, we’ll I have work I need to finish before Ky gets home, but I can keep an eye on Kitty – maybe you could pick him and the project up after school?
THM: “No, I’m busy playing farmville. I’ll get it on Monday”.
I’m just not sure what else her plan for the project was after she didn’t take it home that Friday. (or if her true intention was ever to take it home after the science fair in the first place.)
I have one post about the Sandusky case and Kyron:
If there is anyone on this earth who has the slightest clue about SZ or TH or anyone else who may have been involved in what happened to Kyron and has not come forward, that person is just as responsible for any future harm to another child or children as those who knew about Sandusky and looked the other way. There is NO excuse for not helping solve this case – that includes school staff, neighbors, anyone here illegally, firefighters who may have known DAD, congregation members of at least one church, school bus drivers, parents of the school kids, gym patrons and staff – nobody is exempt. In MY book, if you can help find Kyron and save other children but you don’t, that makes you an accomplice.
Let’s not forget that many students who knew Kyron were also harmed emotionally by his disappearance even if they are no longer talking about it. There were a lot of victims on June 4th, 2010, in addition to Kyron’s own family.
I am relieved Sandusky was found guilty. I am amazed at the courage of those victims who came forward. I’m 99.9% sure he will appeal but I’m going with Marcia Clark’s explanation of why that won’t work. I can’t quote it, but it has to do with the verdict being based on the credibility of the witnesses and when that’s the case, the appeals court has to defer to the jury’s judgment about their credibility.
And we ALL know if he had been found not guilty, he’d have gone out and done it again . . .
There will be no appellate case, imo. Jerry Sandusky will die in prison.
B
My family took a short vacation over the weekend and flying out of PDX we went right over Sauvie Island and the forested hills surrounding the whole area and I couldn’t help but look down and feel so hopeless for Kyron. Such a little boy in such a large area – how could anyone know where to search!?!
Awesome. Okay, I think the school did call 911, but more to my point if she sounded the alarm it is suspicious, and if she doesn’t sound the alarm it is suspicious. Mother’s intuition is strong and I am not trying to discount it, but have to wonder if that initial conversation between TH and DY set the tone. If I thought what DY thought, I would be mulling it from Medford to Portland, over and over.
If a step-parent and a school “lost” my child, I think I would be beyond angry if I didn’t get answers from them both. I would have that teacher and that step-mother in a locked room with me until I got to the bottom of it, and the cops would just have to get over it, kwim? No disrespect to DY intended, I am simply saying, of course she is beyond upset, but being justifiably upset doesn’t always make someone right.
About that project – Why indeed wouldn’t the entire family pick him up from school in the motherloltruck and go out for that ice cream, before Kyron left for Medford? What is the urgency of picking up that project unless they wanted to get the project so Kyron could take it with him to Medford? Why do or did MCSO take that project into evidence?
What was everyone thinking when he did not appear at the talent show?
VLH says:
June 22, 2012 at 11:43 pm
In my very very limited experience, family court has plenty of parents who fight with all their might, and may be innocent, but do not get their kid back. Remember Matt Sandusky. The way to get a kid back is to do absolutely everything the government asks you to do. The Judge will defer to the government agent. In an emergency situation,
that may be only an oral report. We do not have any idea what info Rackham provided to substantiate Kaine’s probable cause statement. I think this Judge, a former gov’t attorney, could easily have acted on Kaine’s characterization of what he was told without more.
The only thing I find admirable about Terri, besides rearing James, is how she’s kept her mouth shut on advice of Counsel when it goes against her personality.
VLH says: June 22, 2012 at 7:51 pm
Excellent Post VLH!! Your posts about the mothertrucking truck and just going out for the darn ice cream cracked me up! lol But, I do believe that somewhere in the “missing links” is the answer. I have often wondered about the “possible three people” seen either in or around the truck. Are they all SZ’s?
Also, Shelly.. I was wondering about the same thing when I read the opening report to this thread. I thought LE would run a DNA on the hair and/or scalp to see if was a match for DAD or Kyron. We haven’t heard much about it since though, maybe it turned out to be nothing?
I am so happy about Sandusky
Now if we can get another Dottie to turn in the rat that took Kyron
It will. be perfect
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/
Last night I watched Dateline. The story was called “Shattered – about the brutal death of Justine Swartz Abshire. I don’t know if they will air the story again as a re-run, but it was very interesting. At one point of the investigation, a man had come foward
who claimed he inadvertently helped Eric Abshire plant his wife’s car at the scene the night of her death. He didn’t know Eric and didn’t know Justine. Was just a lost passerby on the road. A year after Justines death, her family filed a wrongful death/civil suit against Eric and included 9 of his friends that said helped.
Can Desiree name other people in her civil suit against Terri Horman and say they helped too? Maybe put the pressure on Terri and friends?
Shelly- there is no evidence of a death, a suit like that would be dismissed immediately.
Technically speaking, anyone can sue for anything in the U.S. really as long as it is not deemed to be nuisance or frivolous.
B
It seems to me we must focus in this case on who was SZ?
Where did he come from and how did he get inside that school that day?
How many saw him? how did he get out the door with Kyron?
The information was in that school on that day?
The people there then must set up their own private yahoo group
with a moderator one of their own, no outsiders to the 490 allowed, and start the
information amongst themselves processing to describe and find the in
and out of this man. A completely private group for the purpose of
pooling their own observations cannot be said to obstruct an investigation.
Tomatoes at Terri does nothing to further the genesis of Kyron’s abduction imo
but harms who has to be the preeminant focus, the actual kidnapper.
It seems to me JS was only stopped when the State stepped in and took the case from local DA,
and an out of town Judge was critical. Same needs to happen here.
Desiree’s case will just distract for a couple years from the real mission
imo by making the public feel “something” is being done. And it’s not imo.
First step: public focus should be putting case in hands of State DOJ, not Portland DA,
with State investigators.
I know there’s no evidene of a death, I just meant can she name other people in her custodial interference suit against Terri?
She did. “Any other involved persons.”
B
@Rose#45
I completely agree
Some where here in Portland some one knows
SZ
Why they don’t tell is a mystery
An abused wife ? A enabler or a devoted friend
Another Dottie
If only we knew who knows who
@VLH, yes so many unanswered questions. I suppose we will find out in the civil trial, if it’s allowed to go forward, which of Desiree’s opinions are based on fact and which on gut instinct.
One reason I think many of the things she has said are based on her gut instinct, is if we ask Kaine Horman the same questions, we get entirely different answers.
For instance in the case of the sighting of someone near “a truck”, Desiree said she believed it credible information, however Kaine sitting right next to her said that still remained to be verified and didn’t really want to comment. In the case of the “hate email(s)”, Kaine has never, ever said that yes there were these awful hate emails and he didn’t know his wife felt that way about his son. One would think he would say something along those lines. IIRC, he has never spoken of such emails. Is it because he thinks that both Desiree and LE are reading more into them than they should? Does he maybe know Terri just a little better and know *it’s just the way Terri talks*? IDK Also, I’ve not seen either of the bios mention that Kyron did NOT leave that school with Terri. Not once do I recall them saying that someone saw Kyron not only walking out of the school with SZ, but a witness heard that SZ mentioned Kyron’s name. Why not? If Desiree Young’s belief is that Terri was the mastermind behind this, why not mention SZ? Why aren’t they looking for him/her? LE, DY, TY and KH, apparently cannot say that Terri acted alone to remove Kyron from that school, because IMO what they DO know about TH’s time line, makes it absolutely impossible for her to have acted alone. Enter SZ, who they cannot identify, cannot tie to Terri Horman or anyone else for that matter.
Soooooo, if DY is acting on her gut, and if LE is acting on some profile they came up with, which fits Terri Horman, and they all feel she is behind it, then she had to have had assistance……SZ. So, why not come out and say so? Boggles me mind. What btw, does anyone think would have been Terri Horman’s motive? The bios have been asked this many times, and just shrug and say they don’t know. And if they truly do not know, how are we to know? What does LE think is Terri’s motive? Lot’s of step mothers don’t like their step children, but they don’t kill them. Is it simply because of Sanchez’s words about a MFH on Kaine, that Terri became suspect in Kyron’s disappearance? A plot they cannot even prove?
As far as we know, LE has not ruled out anyone in this case, including other family members. In fact they have said they have as many as 60 persons of interest. Like erose mentioned up thread, parents are often the first to be investigated, and so is the “last *known* person” to see the child. That would be Terri. If one of the other parents were to be the last “known” person to see Kyron, then they would be under the scrutiny. (You can add Amber Dubois’ step dad to the list of suspects that LE was wrong about, and there are probably many more cases we could site.)
So many questions and no answers.
Maybe Desiree’s suit will bring us some answers. Maybe it will, if nothing else, make people nervous and make someone start talking. I hope so.
@Shelley
Shattered was a real eye opener
I watched it also
I just love Desiree and understand she needs to do something
And she is suffering
But I don’t think her suit against Terri should stop us from looking for SZ