Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island
Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.
Update 1: As referenced on KOIN, a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair. Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing. The possible “hair” was sent for testing.
Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.
Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman, Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.
It is also the former home of a man considered to be Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results. Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.
Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.
David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle and is being cared for by a friend of the family. Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this breaking story.
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http://www.kgw.com/news/Second-grade-student-missing-from-Skyline-Elementary-95670454.html
As of September 8, 2010:
Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton said Friday that investigators were operating under the premise that Kyron is still alive, he said. He said there have been 2,877 valid leads and about 60 percent of them have been covered.
“Everyone is a person of interest,” Staton said in response to questions about any specific individuals. Staton added that there were no “serial patterns” that indicated a threat to the community.
****************
Thanks for that link Lyla. So, there ya go. Staton is saying they have no evidence that Kyron has been killed or harmed. (i.e., they have no evidence as to what happened to Kyron, period.)
*Everyone is still a person of interest*. (Including Terri, but not just Terri, i.e., we have nothing on anyone specifically, therefore everyone is still a person of interest.)
“There were no serial patterns that indicated a threat to the community.” WTH does that mean? If a stranger walked into that school (like one did years ago in Gresham, OR, with a young girl named Stacie Wilmoth) and coaxed a young child to go with them out of the school, what kind of pattern would that leave? It happened then, it could happen now. In retrospect, a whole lot of Staton’s comments are CYA mumbo jumbo to me.
IDK what legal ramifications would arise if LE was telling all the Skyline Parents, not to worry that Terri was their “suspect”, if in fact it turned out they had nothing on her. I know they were trying to “keep the peace” and calm rattled nerves, but outright lying to parents that it is an isolated case, when they do not know that for sure would be morally wrong to me. Gates was quoted as saying they could not rule out stranger-to-stranger abduction, so why would they be telling the parents of Skyline children otherwise?
Because a SZ knew Kyron’s name? As discussed here before, these creeps can pick up on names and befriend their prey in moments. Look at the Wilmoth case. She did not know her abductor. He walked into a school and she innocently walked out to his car with him. A figure of authority (an adult) at school, who’s lead she followed. Kyron’s case could be that simple.
Case file: Sex offender photographed young girls at Costco
SEATTLE – A sex offender who moved to Washington state from Texas has been arrested on suspicion of distributing child pornography, and investigators say he secretly took more than 100 close-up photos of young girls at a Costco store where he worked as a contract employee.
The suspect, Gregory Sean O’Neall of Des Moines, was arrested Thursday by federal agents after investigators served a search warrant and found images of young girls engaged in sex acts stored on his home computer, according to court documents in the case.
The arrest came after an investigation by the Department of Homeland Security uncovered evidence that O’Neall, using the screen name “Animal instinct,” downloaded and distributed images of girls as young as age 3 to 5 engaged in sex acts with adult males, court documents say.
During the course of the investigation, a Homeland Security agent discovered that “Animal instinct” also had posted nine photo albums to a Russia-based website with names like “More Costco Cuties,” “Princess of the Launderette” and “Still More Costco Cuties,” court files say.
(snipped, more @ link)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Case-file-Sex-offender-photographed-young-girls-at-Costco-160042835.html
They are everywhere!!! Remember the billboards of Kyron printed in Russian?
Was Houze served with Desiree’s papers on the first? Does that mean there should be a response by next Friday, since 7/1 is a Sunday?
@Blink. What would it take for the State DOJ & State investigators to take over this investigation?
could the Governor order that?
Just my opinion, my thinking, racking my brain for what could’ve happened:
* Could the “three by the truck” been the characters in this case who had batt phones/would get other batt phones shortly? Is the evidence that may still be there perhaps be the evidence of such batt phones? Were they coordinating their plan?
Some other mind-bending exercises as I’m sitting at the table, far in the Northwoods of Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, taking a break from our antique-buying trip, while I’m avoiding bears and wolves, and 2,000 miles from Hillsboro…
*I keep thinking about a scenario posited here months back about TH’s friends possibly doing a “rescue” or at least taking Ky from KH, teaching him a lesson, getting his attention, an attempt to shift the power from a controller to herself? I wonder…as she left, did she wave at Ky, thereby giving a signal to SZ(s)? Were the sightings of the white truck on the nearby roads possibly unsuccessful “meetings” that she did not “get to”?
*Who and what encourages TH’s silence? Lawyer, parents, whoever put up the retainer money, DDS,the fact she may walk free because she so thoroughly covered her tracks and connections?
*Why no “Anna Song” type investigative reporting? No WW to gouge into the crust of known facts and report to the caring, justice-minded people who want to see this case resolved and Kyron found. I am beyond tired of the pap we are fed for updates. The media has an info gag on it, the school is getting a dangerous “pass”, and the public is treated like little Johnny, oblivious and duped.
*Does the answer lie on Sauvie Island? Connections, business, wilderness, boats,water ??
* What did surveillance cameras show? That day? That week? The week before? That month before?
*Who was RS—really. What ever happened to Elsie and children? Couldn’t a new reporter contact her—if she’s no longer missing–and interview her? If she’s still missing, couldn’t someone do an article on the family?
*KH. What does he know? Really.
Soon, may this be resolved, information that will bust open this case like a sack of flour dropped from a third story window. No guessing what’s inside. Just a plain white cloud of facts.
So. Be. It.
VLH says:
June 22, 2012 at 7:51 pm
*Witness(es) saw or heard a man (SZ) say Ky’s name and as they walked away, and Kyron did not look happy.
————-
If a witness was close enough (in a crowded school) to hear SZ call Kyron by his name and then walk away with kyron and that witness was close enough to notice the expression on Kyrons face. I can’t believe that there is not a detailed description of SZ. I wonder if they have had these witness(s) describe SZ to a police artist. They could then distribute the picture to those who attended the science fair to determine if there were any other sitings of SZ and what his actions were before he called out Kyrons name and walked away with him or perhaps afterward if he returned to the school. Maybe someone saw SZ around the school prior to june 4.
VLH says:
June 22, 2012 at 7:51 pm
*Witness(es) saw or heard a man (SZ) say Ky’s name and as they walked away, and Kyron did not look happy.
——-
The fact that SZ called Kyron by name also helps to understand why LE would think that Kyron was targeted and that this was isolated incident. SZ may have said Kyrons name because SZ knew he was supposed to grab Kyron but he was unsure about which little boy was Kyron. If SZ called out kyrons name and watched to see which child responded then he would know which child was his target (Kyron).
Just speculation, but could SZ be another student’s parent or other relative that has a wanting for little boys that could have been at the science fair and it was just an opportunity that could not be stopped? My daughter’s son was lost at school orientation when he was entering kindergarden. The parents were told that it would take approx. one hour and were asked to leave the classroom so that the children could get acquainted with their surroundings and were given a tour to the lunchroom. She never left the school but walked around the hallways with other parents as part of a parents tour. She went to pick him up in his classroom and he was missing. She panicked and started looking with the school personnel. Luckily, there he was sitting in the gym by himself as he didn’t know where to go. He has such a sweet soul, I think back on that day and any hinky employee or other parent, etc. could have taken him and who knows what could have happened? Yes, the school lost track, yes, they apologized. But, still, I thank GOD that he was safe. Science fairs and other activities lead to lots of confusion and many children and others milling about. It is the school’s responsibility to keep everyone safe and accounted for. End of story, she removed him from the school before it even started and enrolled him in a private school. No second chances. Something very sinister happened to Kyron, but investigators need to look at the whole picture of the day not just the family.
@T.Ruth
(snipped) “As far as we know, LE has not ruled out anyone in this case, including other family members. In fact they have said they have as many as 60 persons of interest. Like erose mentioned up thread, parents are often the first to be investigated, and so is the “last *known* person” to see the child. That would be Terri. If one of the other parents were to be the last “known” person to see Kyron, then they would be under the scrutiny. (You can add Amber Dubois’ step dad to the list of suspects that LE was wrong about, and there are probably many more cases we could site.)”
————————————————————
I thought Kyron was seen with a male chaperone and two girls after TH left the school? How do they figure Terri was the last person to see him. I think LE has some critical information regarding the time Kyron was last seen by anyone and will not release that information until the case is solved. You’re right…so many questions, so few answers. They don’t want to jeopardize their case.
Blink, not to rehash the whole Stensen thing but found a comment on KTU (about half way down the comment list on page 2)
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html#idc-cover
The jist of the comment posted stated the info came from a skyline student’s facebook page and stated that “she was annoyed with the person doing the mowing because he took up three spaces with his pick up and his trailer when the spaces were needed for the people at the science fair. Also she said he never cut the grass during school time so why now.” (she was annoyed and my guess is her parent was annoyed due to him taking up 3 viable spaces and kids will express annoyment that their parents express especially while driving and parking)
So, if that is true than Stensen was not on the access road as he stated the entire time while he was mowing.
Now, I tend to believe a child over an adult any day of the week. I wonder if LE followed up to see if it was true.
IMO, you’re all amazing. All of your input, and respect towards pov’s, along with Blinks hard work is why I prefer this site.
My question and thought process boiled down to a few things:
There is very little that we know as fact in this case. Even then, a lot of these ‘facts’ are at least a little foggy, or in pieces. IMO, some facts, or parts thereof, have come from Court docs that all parties have agreed to (or not contested), corroborated statements, that all parties have either agreed with directly, or through their lawyers (ex: Kyron was at the school that day), and solid evidence (and we don’t know if there is any of that yet).
So if we only take the above pieces, what does that leave? A lot of pieces and questions, missing links. On this learning blog, because I have a lot to learn, I was trying to think logically: there are so few facts, yet such strong beliefs and statements. They are coming from somewhere. Are these beliefs founded more on facts/evidence that we haven’t learned, or gut feeling/instinct? If they are coming from evidence, that’s one lead (1 of ?) and maybe it’s not as fubar as we’ve feared, and one can hope they are running parallel investigations on other leads – unless we know as fact that they are not? However, If theses beliefs are rooted more from the gut, well, that’s a whole nother ballgame and that many agencies and LEO following the lead of, and zoning in on only circumstantial findings and gut feelings scares me. I want to believe that there is more than gut feeling, circumstantial ‘evidence’, and opinion behind this degree of manpower, time, and silence.
But like mom always said, “wish in one hand…
wpg says:
June 22, 2012 at 12:08 pm
“There was no Amber Alert, because not a soul saw him leave. He is out by 9:45AM-10AM.
B”
That’s the same time-frame TH began her 90 minute drive . . .
——————————————————————-
A SZ called Kyron by name but nobody saw him leave? Now I’m really confused..I thought he was seen walking away with an unhappy look on his face. What did the witness see and hear?
@cd, where did the as they walked away he did not look happy comment come from ?
?
cd says:
June 23, 2012 at 4:25 pm
VLH says:
June 22, 2012 at 7:51 pm
*Witness(es) saw or heard a man (SZ) say Ky’s name and as they walked away, and Kyron did not look happy.
——-
The fact that SZ called Kyron by name also helps to understand why LE would think that Kyron was targeted and that this was isolated incident. SZ may have said Kyrons name because SZ knew he was supposed to grab Kyron but he was unsure about which little boy was Kyron. If SZ called out kyrons name and watched to see which child responded then he would know which child was his target (Kyron).
—————————————————————–
If this was a planned abduction Kyron could have easily been identified by his CSI shirt. In other words the perp told SZ what Kyron would be wearing. It puzzles me tho that he would leave with a total stranger.
I would like to know the origin of this please:
Witness(es) saw or heard a man (SZ) say Ky’s name and as they walked away, and Kyron did not look happy.
It has the ring of some misinformation I am familiar with.
I would also prefer if we ( all, not just lyla) are providing a hypothetical we characterize it as such, thank you all much.
B
cd says:
June 22, 2012 at 4:31 pm
lyla says:
June 22, 2012 at 12:18 pm
(snipped)
Is it coincidental or was SZ waiting for TH to leave before making his move? My guess is the latter.
———————-
It seems to me that SZ would have waited until Terri left the school because while she was at the school she was with kyron. It would seem like SZ would think it would be difficult to snatch kyron while Terri was standing right next to him so he needed to wait until she left the school.
—————————————————-
So we are saying, then, that if Terri had simply walked Kyron to the classroom door and watched him go to his desk, perhaps waving to the teacher, SZ would not have been able to get him to go outside? At least he would have been marked present and missed very quickly if something happened at a later time.
Of course, if you believe that TH planned this, then she did exactly what you would have expected.
I’m now wondering – was SZ outside or inside the building? I had the impression he was seen in the doorway saying Kyron’s name and Kyron walked out with him. We know the doors weren’t locked that day. But if SZ had opened the door from outside, how would he have gotten the timing just right to catch Kyron so close to the door and without any people watching who would have challenged him (hopefully anyone on staff would have, at least), and with no one in the parking lot to see them leave?
IMO now, it seems SZ was more likely to be inside somewhere in order to see when the time was right to move toward the door – unless someone told Kyron to expect to meet him. If SZ was inside at any point, did he really avoid all notice and all the photos people were taking – apparently, he did, so how?
In response to Tori says: December 14, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Blink said (snipped):
“No, just because I classify suspect zero as an opportunist does not mean this was not premeditated, in fact, I absolutely think it was.
I envision “zero” walking the halls when he thinks nobody is paying attention and counting the steps from classroom to door, to steps to bathroom and stopping and restarting his stop watch. He has watched each teacher, each classroom, and knows how to get in and out of every entrance and exit. The Science Fair, open to all, provided him the opportunity.”
Blink’s comment (which was based on her vision) makes it appear SZ was at the school before the Science Fair day and perhaps, multiple times. It would not have been enough for SZ to be there only on Thursday when the SF projects were being set up and things were out of the normal routine.
Blink – if you still stand by this vision, it is not clear to me whether SZ would be doing this BEFORE he chose Kyron or BECAUSE he chose Kyron.
Yet all of that would have been in vain if TH had walked Kyron to the door of his classroom. Would someone doing that much preparation have left such a major factor to chance? I certainly wouldn’t.
It was well planned as to the effective and stealth removal of a child, no doubt in my mind, but I could not say the target was Kyron specifically vs. any other child, and anyone claiming to have that information is FOS, imo.
B
Christina Stoy says:
June 23, 2012 at 6:41 pm
@cd, where did the as they walked away he did not look happy comment come from ?
————-
I don’t have time to read back right now, but I thought Blink said the unhappy look comment was not true. Maybe someone else remembers that.
mas says:
June 23, 2012 at 6:03 pm
(snipped)
“she was annoyed and my guess is her parent was annoyed due to him taking up 3 viable spaces and kids will express annoyment that their parents express especially while driving and parking)
“So, if that is true than Stensen was not on the access road as he stated the entire time while he was mowing.”
———————–
I think we have determined that Stensen parked across those spaces temporarily while he walked into the office and got the key to the access road gate. Then he returned the key before he left.
T. Ruth says:
June 23, 2012 at 1:30 pm
(snipped)
“Desiree said she believed it credible information, however Kaine sitting right next to her said that still remained to be verified and didn’t really want to comment.”
With regard to Desiree talking about Kyron being seen outside by the truck and Kaine playing that down, I think a number of us thought she was not supposed to be revealing that and Kaine was trying to back peddle.
——————————
“In the case of the “hate email(s)”, Kaine has never, ever said that yes there were these awful hate emails and he didn’t know his wife felt that way about his son. One would think he would say something along those lines. IIRC, he has never spoken of such emails.”
Kaine did say he saw the emails. He has always been more cautious about giving away details than Desiree has, and since he hadn’t heard what Desiree said in her interview, he would have been even less inclined to say anything specific about them. At that point, they were still trying to be a “united front”. In all the interviews I’ve listened to, I don’t recall any interviewer bringing up the emails with Kaine again.
Posted on November 15, 2010 at 9:10 AM
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Exclusive–Kyron-Hormans-Mom-Talks-About-Disturbing-Emails–108170584.html
(snipped)
Young said she couldn’t go into specifics because of the ongoing investigation. But she didn’t hold back about the ugly picture she said the emails painted.
“It’s very clear from Terri’s horrible words that she had a severe hatred for Kyron and that she blamed a lot of the marital problems on Kyron,” said Young.
Kaine held a press conference late Monday morning. He said he could not comment specifically on anything Desiree said during the Today Show, because he did not watch the interview. But he did confirm that he got the same information about Terri’s emails from police on Friday as Desiree.
Shelly says:
June 23, 2012 at 11:11 am
I know there’s no evidene of a death, I just meant can she name other people in her custodial interference suit against Terri?
She did. “Any other involved persons.”
B
———————————-
@ Blink – I take this to mean (correctly?) that if peeling away the layers of mystery uncovers some involvement by another person, that person can then be added to the suit. I wonder if this means TH would not be the only person taking the 5th if called to testify.
MBS says (snipped):
I’m 99.9% sure he will appeal but I’m going with Marcia Clark’s explanation of why that won’t work. I can’t quote it, but it has to do with the verdict being based on the credibility of the witnesses and when that’s the case, the appeals court has to defer to the jury’s judgment about their credibility.
There will be no appellate case, imo. Jerry Sandusky will die in prison.
B
——————————-
See, that’s what I get for listening to Anderson Cooper and his guests, but I just could not stomach N.G. and her insults to her own guests. When I listened to Sandusky’s lawyer later, he was talking about an appeal and that if just one of their possible points was found valid, everything would be thrown out and it didn’t matter whether it was 45 counts or a hundred counts. He had not yet talked to Sandusky then. I’m hoping you are right and there is no appeal. At the same time, they were asking about an appeal, the attorney was also saying that the sentencing would probably be in September.
What is the deadline for an appeal?
For him, already passed. He tried to quit the case the night before trial, no way he is filing an appeal. Sandusky already fired him, no doubt.
B
Pure gold.
Kat says:
June 23, 2012 at 3:27 pm
snip>
The media has an info gag on it, the school is getting a dangerous “pass”, and the public is treated like little Johnny, oblivious and duped.
January says:
June 23, 2012 at 2:42 am
VLH says: June 22, 2012 at 7:51 pm
(snipped)
“Also, Shelly.. I was wondering about the same thing when I read the opening report to this thread. I thought LE would run a DNA on the hair and/or scalp to see if was a match for DAD or Kyron. We haven’t heard much about it since though, maybe it turned out to be nothing?”
I don’t think it has been long enough to get results. One source said 6 to 8 weeks at least, although I think they can move something up the priority list if necessary.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Possible-Sauvie-Island-remains-investigated/EP5UAQZ-RUiowGtN2ckDRQ.cspx
On Monday KOIN did hear from Jeffrey Dickerson with the Columbia County Sheriff’s Office. He confirmed “a fisherman pulled a wad of what appeared to be human hair out of the water” on his fishing line
http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/158490625.html
Police have turned over what appears to be human hair to the Oregon State Police crime lab after it was reeled in by a fisherman on Sauvie Island.
Sheriff Dickerson said the results might not come back from the crime lab for weeks.
Rose says:
June 23, 2012 at 10:52 am
First step: public focus should be putting case in hands of State DOJ, not Portland DA, with State investigators.
Rose says:
June 23, 2012 at 3:03 pm
@Blink. What would it take for the State DOJ & State investigators to take over this investigation?
could the Governor order that?
—————————
@Rose – I wrote a 4 page letter August 11, 2011, to the Oregon Attorney General with a copy to the governor. I provided explanations and made 4 requests. Since the letter is rather long and I think I posted it already last year, I will summarize what I asked for.
1 – “ . . . that you ask the Governor to consider whether some National Guard members could be used to help search for a couple of weekends so that this phase of the work can be finished. I understand why they do not want to use untrained volunteers even though I believe hundreds would show up, but the National Guard should be trained for this and if not, can certainly follow the orders given about how to accomplish the task.”
2 – I believe the public has the right to know the truth about whether there is a continuing potential danger from the person or persons involved in Kyron’s case. (I also believe the public and schools should always assume it’s a possibility and prepare accordingly.) However, I do not expect MCSO or the Multnomah County DA, or any other person or agency to compromise whatever information they have about this case.
There are any number of reasons why this person may not be a danger to our children – he could be in jail for another crime, he could be dead or missing and presumed dead, he could have left the country. However, they must not stand behind a statement assuring parents their children are safe if they do not know this as documented fact.
My suggestion is for the you, as Attorney General, to either take on the task yourself or appoint 2 or 3 people who would be widely respected by the public, to confidentially review the case and independently determine (1) whether it is true that nothing and no one in this case represents a threat to children in our schools, or (2) whether schools need to take another look at security procedures with a potential danger in mind. (The second determination should happen every year before school starts anyway, but it doesn’t.)
3 – [I mentioned many of the concerns we were expressing at the time and asked that] the same case review mentioned above could make a statement covering these concerns without giving up critical information. To date, the only people who have expressed confidence in the handling of this case by law enforcement are Kyron’s parents, and even they are divided in their thinking and the actions they are taking. It should not be up to them in their grief to reassure the public.
The purpose of a review of the investigation so far is not about the prosecution or who may be guilty, it is about whether it is possible for anyone to give a vote of confidence to what has been done so far and the degree of risk to our children as a result of what has been learned about this case.
4 – [This one was more of a question] This concern is minor compared to the others, but there are a number of funds to donate to which are associated with this case, including one held by MCSO, as well as the $50,000 reward money. It seems difficult to see any accounting of how these funds are spent. I assume the reward is still available, but it is rarely mentioned now on fliers, in interviews, or current media reports, if at all. Are these funds something your department monitors?
Conclusion: I believe the state has an interest, a right, and a responsibility to at least look at this case, consider, and answer these concerns even if not requested by those in charge locally. I also believe doing so is well within the goals of the Oregon Department of Justice as shown on your website.
——————————
The response I received was an amazing 2 days later.
Response from Kate Medema, Legislative and Constituent Affairs, Office of the Attorney General – Oregon
August 10, 2011
Thank you for your recent correspondence to the Oregon Department of Justice, Office of the Attorney General regarding the Kyron Horman investigation. Many Oregonians are trouble by the terrible events surrounding Kyron’s disappearance. Unfortunately, Attorney General Kroger does not have jurisdiction or authority to intervene in this matter.
Oregon law prohibits the Attorney General and employees of the Department of Justice from providing legal advice to private individuals. See ORS 180.060. Likewise, we do not do investigations on individual matters. DOJ serves as counsel to state agencies, boards and commissions, but we are limited in our capacity to investigate, monitor, or control the activities of other state and local government agencies, including investigations by county sheriff’s offices. Our office may only serve the public by enforcing Oregon’s consumer protection law, regulating charitable activities, enforcing child support obligations, and providing support for victims of violent crime.
Under Oregon law, the power to conduct criminal prosecution belongs to the district attorney serving the county where the alleged crime took place (last 6 words in italics). Although DOJ may provide assistance to the district attorney upon request, the district attorney has exclusive jurisdiction in criminal matters. I regret that our agency is limited by jurisdiction and cannot be directly helpful to this cause, but we are grateful to engaged citizens like you who take the time to correspond with us.
—————————————-
My response with my BOC post at the time was – and remains:
Not surprising except that the response was very fast. I am assuming that “providing legal advice to private individuals” somehow refers to my request for confirmation to the public that school children are safe from the person or persons responsible, since I didn’t ask for personal legal advice. If nothing else, they know we have not forgotten and are still watching the investigation. Not giving up.
I find statements like “we are grateful to engaged citizens like you who take the time to correspond with us” very annoying, but that’s probably just me – seems so hollow to be grateful for my correspondence as an engaged citizen. They should be grateful for citizens who try to make sure the work gets done and the public is served and protected.
Posted 8-11-11
If anyone else wants to try, now that we have a new Attorney General and another year has passed, you have my blessing and encouragement.
Nope, I appreciate it, I am cramming for an exam during all of this, lol.
B
MBS says:
What is the deadline for an appeal?
For him, already passed. He tried to quit the case the night before trial, no way he is filing an appeal. Sandusky already fired him, no doubt.
B
——-
Well, that explains one thing – why that attorney was laughing and making (unrelated) jokes as they were putting on his mic for the interview with CNN – I thought it was very inappropriate after you just lost a case. I’m not sure he knew he was on camera although the guy next to him was clearly trying to ask him an interview question while they were setting him up to talk to A. Cooper.
Also sort of explains his answers dancing around the appeal question.
Thanks.
lime green, lol? I believe it is a droid v. PC interface issue. All kinda things going on around these parts
B
No. 16 – Who would have motive to remove a child from school …. pedophile, general creeper, murderer, or someone who desperately wants a child of their own? Kyron, by all accounts, is a very sweet trusting child with great passion for his science project. So, what was the “cool one” that he was so hurried to see and who told him about the “cool one”?
@MockingbirdSings says:
June 23, 2012 at 8:49 pm
MbS, sorry I wasn’t clear. I wasn’t trying to imply Kaine never saw the so called “hatred” emails. What I said was, it was rather apparent he did not take them in the same way that Desiree did. Perhaps that is a matter of perception. The man never said he saw any emails that pointed to his wife, Terri, saying she hated or wanted to harm Kyron. That’s all I am saying. I personally, found it odd that he did not corroborate Desiree’s feelings about what she *read* in those same emails or even expand upon them. Multiple times, they have both been asked why Terri would take Kyron and/or have something done to him. Both have indicated, multiple times, they have no clue. FWIW, they also both said when asked, that they never heard Terri referred to by LE as a suspect.
If they are telling the truth, then, how is it, that in their minds, she is one? Something is not being said that should be. Again, we appear to only have parts of this saga. I hope Desiree’s lawsuit does peel away the layers.
Yes, I remember the letter now. You went easy on them.
I guess JS was only taken on by a State investigator & the State DOJ
with a prosecutor from outside because Mike M the Centre Cty recused himself.
Which is what it took to still glacially move the case.
Pigs would fly before Underhill would do that. He’s got
quiet cooperative parents so why would he. No directly
impacted person to hire an outside attorney and ask for
a just investigation. Well, only Terri. Maybe that’s why she’s been
mcso’s de facto suspect.
imo a State Justice Dept should do (for the people)
what needs to be done. Ask MLKing or Bobby Kennedy.
Hiw about a federal civil rights suit on behalf of all PPS children
to secure safe public educational environments
— and, some civil rights plaintiff attorneys could manage to state a case
with the theory Kyron’s civil rights were violated by PPS in the course of
failing to give a safe public educational environment. Now that would
advance PPS related discovery on all kinds of child safety issues.
@mbs. You’re correct Stenson parked there while getting the keys.
He also had to return them. Let JS be a lesson you can’t ever tell
about charming older married guys who are just doin’ their job,
however much they appeal
to the flower power generation of old.
about the “a man saying Kyron’s name” quote above.
I remember it was on here.
I apparently misremember Blink said it.
I believed it and I wouldn’t have without more from any other source.
So thanks for correcting the record Blink.
MockingbirdSings says: (snipped)
June 23, 2012 at 8:25 pm
Blink – if you still stand by this vision, it is not clear to me whether SZ would be doing this BEFORE he chose Kyron or BECAUSE he chose Kyron.
Yet all of that would have been in vain if TH had walked Kyron to the door of his classroom. Would someone doing that much preparation have left such a major factor to chance? I certainly wouldn’t.
——
It was well planned as to the effective and stealth removal of a child, no doubt in my mind, but I could not say the target was Kyron specifically vs. any other child, and anyone claiming to have that information is FOS, imo.
B
———————————
Yes – it is entirely possible that Kyron’s family history, sweetness, personality, etc., had nothing to do with his disappearance. What if SZ simply wanted the challenge and excitement of taking a young child from a school much like an avid fisherman who prepares his equipment, goes to his favorite spot, uses his favorite bait which is designed for a particular type of fish, but isn’t trying to get one specific fish?
Why would he do that? Possibly because he has had other victims and gotten bored, or finding new risks is exhilarating and part of the game. If this were the case, then SZ certainly didn’t plan on having all that extra time and may have begun to wonder what was going on with no missing child report for hours during the day to show everyone what an amazing thing he (anonymously) accomplished.
And if this were the case, then choosing a victim from a school may have been checked off his list, moving on to a church, a kid’s movie or concert, the circus – who knows. What an ugly, scary thought.
I can’t stick with that idea very long, however, without wondering about Kyron being seen outside by the truck – it’s out of character with “stealth” unless it was another of those amazing coincidences like the doctor’s appointment issue, the hateful emails, taking the truck to bring home an exhibit you didn’t bring home, and Desiree having to work that day. It’s possible, but could one SZ have so much “luck”? (Houze will think so.)
So where would that leave Terri? Either (1) an innocent woman whose personality, poor choices, and years of silence have put her in the middle of a “Bermuda Triangle” of her own making but held in place by LE, public opinion, and lack of support from anyone but her equally silent parents and silent (to date) attorney, or (2) a horrible person who conspired to get rid of Kyron without regard to his or anyone else’s pain and suffering.
I still think the closest thing I have imagined (and previously posted) to a “perfect arrangement” would be for someone who wanted to get rid of a child to team up with a pedophile who, with very little assistance, would take the child for you. No money required, almost no fear of him talking or being believed if he did, nothing concrete to tie the 2 of you together. Much, much cleaner than a MFH, not as hard to set up, and not as risky for anyone but SZ.
Bottom line re SZ – even if TH was involved, he doesn’t need her to do it again.
I gotta say, the problem with that theory is that a serial pedophile, who will abduct, does not have a known case I am aware of, that is “for hire.” They work alone.
Now, I have opined very early that this could have been a situation that went sideways quickly and someone helping TH got scared or whatever, but who believes that would be an untraceable event.
At the end of the day, I say-
1. Crime scene.
2. Victimology. (I heard this from both parents early.)
3. Canvass.
What is the net of that activity that does not include investigators telling witnesses they suspect TH?
I am repeating myself over and over and over again for one reason: Kyron Hyron was a 7 year old child who had one agenda: To be a child. He deserves to be found.
B
“In response to Tori says: December 14, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Blink said (snipped):”
“No, just because I classify suspect zero as an opportunist does not mean this was not premeditated, in fact, I absolutely think it was.
I envision “zero” walking the halls when he thinks nobody is paying attention and counting the steps from classroom to door, to steps to bathroom and stopping and restarting his stop watch. He has watched each teacher, each classroom, and knows how to get in and out of every entrance and exit. The Science Fair, open to all, provided him the opportunity.”
—————————————————————
Possibly someone who worked at the school occasionally, delivery person(s), knew the school layout, possibly has moved on to a different location. That scenario is very scary.
Blink says below (and has in other posts) mentioned Kyron was referred to by name by SZ. She also says here the encounter was not in his classroom, although I believe other posts of hers say it was indeed *inside* the school. Doesn’t mean the encounter wasn’t in another classroom, (cool electric one?) or could have been the gym, library, hallway bathroom, etc.
The rumor is that the witness that allegedly saw Kyron go with SZ, saw him go “reluctantly”. As far as I know this is a rumor started over on SM and I have no idea whether or not the “reluctantly” part is true. For all we know, Kyron could have happily skipped away with whomever SZ is. However, IMO, if it was a stranger, that probably wouldn’t be the case. (BTW, before someone corrects me, in the following old post of mine, I meant Kurtis’, not Tanner’s RETF exhibit. I also wondered if this could be why Kyron’s RETF exhibit was being held as evidence, per Desiree Young, in one of her interviews.)
T. Ruth says:
January 23, 2012 at 11:11 pm
Here it is, interestingly the same interview where Gates says he can’t say for certain that it’s not stranger-to-stranger.
http://www.kgw.com/video?id=96685544&sec=547977 (June 18, 2010)
*********************
I was thinking about something today as well that I have never thought about. What if Kyron was the wrong kid? Nelmel asking about whether there were pamphlets showing the different displays got me thinking about this. We know for a fact that Tanner had the a display on the Red-eyed Tree Frog as did Kyron. We also know that there is a mystery man standing at TP’s exhibit. Is it at all possible that TP was the intended target? Would that explain why LE was still monitoring the school (according to rumors) well after? IDK, I just started thinking about the what-ifs?. What if someone was told….. go get the kid in this class who has the red-eyed tree frog exhibit?
Ky did not encounter the man in his room and to my knowledge her called him by his name.
B
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-282/#comments
*******************
I would still like to know where Terri Horman got the information that people saw Kyron after she left. She put in her email about Kyron being seen with a male chaperone and two girls. I seriously doubt she made that up. I mean why add the “two girls” part? Perhaps it was in error by whomever told her, but perhaps not. If this person, this male chaperone, is SZ, then that email is scary as hell and never should have been released to the media and the media should never have printed it! Which brings me back to one of my initial questions, who released all this stuff? IMO, that is not something LE would provide to the media, good grief, think about what that says. Was this email made public before or after Staton came back in denial of his originally stated 9:00 a.m. Kyron sighting inside the school. If that email was made public after he said Kyron was last seen inside at 9:00, what a stupid thing for the media to print publicly in the press, and IMO it would definitely explain Staton’s recanting back to the statement that TH was the last known person to see Kyron at 8:45. I can even see the press being told to say nothing anymore other than that as well.
MockingbirdSings says:
June 23, 2012 at 8:25 pm
Yet all of that would have been in vain if TH had walked Kyron to the door of his classroom. Would someone doing that much preparation have left such a major factor to chance? I certainly wouldn’t.
——————-
There was no Amber Alert, because not a soul saw him leave. He is out by 9:45AM-10AM.
B
——————
I don’t think that kyron was taken at 8:45 – 9:00 when TH left him in the hall. It has always sounded to me (Kyron being seen in the gym, the cool electric one etc) like Kyron was seen at different places in the school other then his classroom before he disappeared and after TH left the school. So I don’t think it would have made any difference if TH had escorted him all the way to his classroom on June 4.
It appears that SZ calling Kyron by name was established here, by Blink. The “not happy” as they walked away was not.
Some history:
T. Ruth says:
January 23, 2012 at 11:11 pm
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-282/#comment-1838448
T. Ruth says:
February 2, 2012 at 2:45 pm
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-286/#comment-1843562
lyla says:
March 3, 2012 at 6:43 pm
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-293/#comment-1858223
lyla says:
April 8, 2012 at 12:18 pm
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-309/#comment-1876617
T. Ruth says:
April 9, 2012 at 12:48 pm
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-309/#comment-1877073
Rose says:
March 14, 2012 at 7:50 pm
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-299/#comment-1864548
Rose says:
June 24, 2012 at 1:37 am
about the “a man saying Kyron’s name” quote above.
I remember it was on here.
I apparently misremember Blink said it.
I believed it and I wouldn’t have without more from any other source.
So thanks for correcting the record Blink.
—————
Same goes for me I had read posts that Kyron was called out by name by SZ and the unhappy expression comment so many time on this blog that I thought that maybe it had been verified that kyron was called by name and did not look happy as he was led away and I had missed the post.
—————————-
VLH says:
June 22, 2012 at 7:51 pm
*Witness(es) saw or heard a man (SZ) say Ky’s name and as they walked away, and Kyron did not look happy.
@Blink & those who asked – Huge blushing apologies for the comment about Kyron not looking happy. I could’ve sworn I read that here, but I serched for hours last night, and although others had the same thinking, I couldn’t find the origin. Will not happen again.
This was my origin of SZ saying his name (which, as discussed – does NOT mean that SZ necessarily knew him. In fact, it’s pretty likely that he didn’t of you look at Blink and everyone’s responses here about opportunistic SO’s).
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-293/#comments
I appreciate that, and appreciate you understanding my need to remain factual, thanks again.
B
SNIP -
lyla says:
March 3, 2012 at 6:43 pm
So, Blink..do you still think this could have been a stranger abduction..no ties to TH & associates or KH?
SNIP-
Blinks response:
SNIP-
I cannot rule it out, have never been able to, and in my mind it is still a strong possibility.
I have every reason to believe the individual was a stranger to Kyron, who referred to him by name.
B
************
SNIP-
I agree 100% though – there are a million ways a person coukd’ve found out his name, the more important question is why has no one (bio’s, LE, etc.) disclosed this info. If they sat on this for two years, while telling people that it was isolated, that is terrifying. I was just trying to look at the origins behind the belief, and the silences in this case. Evidence, or gut feeling? I know that’s really broad, but I’m someone who is always trying to make sense of things, and learn. I have never been able to make sense as to who or why this sweet boy was taken and my heart hurts for him and his family.
Curious if anyone knows:
We’ve heard that Terri has a receipt from FM #1 right? We’ve also heard they did not have the medicine TH was looking for at that store, right? So – if FM did not have what she went there to purchase, what DID she purchase in order to receive a receipt? Why not just leave the store and move onto the next? Did she need proof she was there at a certain time?
I have searched, and cannot seem to find the answer, and actually – I should have first asked – could this info even be important/relevant?
I’m gonna stop thinking now for a bit.
Hi Mockingbird…. Re your post on June 23rd @ 9:09….. Do you know that DNA is actually being done on the hair? Even if it does take several weeks to find out if it belongs to DAD or Kyron, it is enough to at least be hopeful and answers mzy be forthcoming.
MockingbirdSings says:
June 23, 2012 at 8:30 pm
———————–
I think we have determined that Stensen parked across those spaces temporarily while he walked into the office and got the key to the access road gate. Then he returned the key before he left.
———–
Thanks MockingbirdSings for clarifying.
Remember this statement? Now, after two years what would “surprise” you?
(snipped) September 15, 2010
“Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton called a press conference Wednesday afternoon after revealing during a morning meeting that he would create a task force to continue the Kyron Horman investigation.
…
The sheriff was asked if anything about the investigation will shock the public.
“I think there will be things that come out of this investigation that will surprise you, that you’ll think about later on after it’s over. These are things that I’ll tell you when you ask me about the stresses that my staff is under and that the other detectives and agency representatives here are under – is that we have a knowledge of things that we don’t want to know about. And that’s the only way that I can answer that. We have knowledge of things we wish we didn’t.”
erose says:
June 22, 2012 at 9:50 pm
(snippet)
“I am now wondering, what would an innocent person that is presumed guilty do? Show up in court and take on the presumptions of MCSO, KH, DY, TY, PPS and most the parents at Skyline?”
hi erose,
jmo, if an innocent person has an attorney the caliber of Houze, that attorney should be able to legally take on those who have presented nothing more than presumptions.
I do believe Kyron was called by name
We tend to not respond to a person unless we are called by name
@vlh. thot the receipt was the in store starbucks
@lyla. I thought that Staton statement was based on all those sex offenders they had to track down in the community and see what they were up to, as well as the pornographers locally they plowed thru. I didn’t see it so much related to the case principals as to the investigation itself
@MBS
Interesting what you wrote about SZ
Trying different places to grab a child
Sort of a personal challenge
Some how this rings true and possible to me
I never would have thought about it on my own
@Blink.
What does “canvass” mean on the context you used it?
Crime scene means to me this is absolutely school-associated. The perp was comfortable in schools, probably due to his work assignments because I remember the profile was childless(?)
he chose Skyline because he knew Skyline School and how the rural spread out location fit the crime. Might’ve even been a Skyline alum.
IMO this was Skyline focused, not a randomly chosen site.
Victimology? Kyron imo was a slight vulnerable kid of a physical type.
He was typey like a Sandusky would look for.
I believe Kyron was put in a class tour group by Mrs Porter at 845 and disappeared thereafter.
The critical event was when she blew off his failure to return at 10. Why Kaine doesn’t focus on
the crime scene’s relation to Kyron’s abduction is unfathomable to me.
The canvass is in this case, the questioning of witnesses and 3rd parties to the activity in question.
Victimology profiling is very extensive, way past the physical and overall assumptions of Ky’s general nature. It is the exhaustive study of the formulation of risk and hopeful of revealing the “relationship” to the crime and suspect.
The problem is, if this is random the only thing it attaches to likely, is exactly what we heard from Desiree and Kaine very early- they had a chat with him about following instructions and they feared that may have been a part of this.
To date, I maintain this was ultimately a sexually motivated crime.
Lastly, in a recent Bureau course I have taken, a case study ( I am not permitted to reference any of the material specifically) came up that I have investigated and analyzed previously of a cold case.
I was faced with a colorful debate with a former Special Agent who I consider to be one of the best in the world, with the track record to boot.
The net was, I had updated information and this: “sometimes we get it wrong” and when we do, we make damn sure we learn why and incorporate that into our training immediately. He also agreed with me strongly that in a cold case scenario, it is critical to give a skilled investigator with no background on the case a shot and start all over and those protocols should be standard.
In that case, it was about the misidentification of a wound, but the fact that any misinterpretation of evidence can skew a case so far afield it is a herculean task to change direction, and even the best investigators who have spent years honing their skills should always apply the protaganist dialogue as a check and balance.
B