Kyron Horman Missing: Civil Suit Against Terri Horman DELAYED AND SEALED- Prompted By NEW LEADS
Portland, OR- As many of you have been following since June 2010, there is a new development today in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
As predicted at BOC, the civil suit brought by Deisree Young, Kyron’s Mother, against Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and the defacto suspect in his disappearance has been granted an abatement.
In a sealed filing, motions by Assistant District Attorney Michael Schrunk and Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton were granted, delaying the suit . The motions included supporting affidavits that continuing the action as already ruled would compromise the investigation.
The decision presents an ironic twist .
Terri Horman’s lawyers originally fought vehemently to abate the action, but were unsuccessful. As recently as last week, the Judge in the case ordered medical records to be accessible to both parties to the action.
In Judge Kantnor’s decision to NOT abate the suit at the request of Attorney Peter Bunch for Terri Horman, the Multnomah County Prosecutors Office declared “no position” on the matter after being contacted by the court.
It is not known if that order prompted the request to delay the suit .
Sheriff Stanton, Eldin Rosenthal, Norm Frink and Stephen Houze declined comment at press time.
On Monday, Judge Henry Kantor granted the motions to abate the civil proceeding and ordered the motions and affidavits filed by the district attorney and sheriff sealed.
A hearing had been scheduled for Dec. 14 to hear Young’s attorney argue before the court to compel testimony from DeDe Spicher, an alleged witness in the case. Today’s ruling is likely to render a postponement of that proceeding.
Sheriff Dan Staton, told Oregon Live, it is based on early leads that are now panning out:
“There are a couple of investigative pieces that are going to open up,” Staton told The Oregonian Tuesday. “Our belief is they’re going to open up several investigative doors.”
He said the new “investigative avenues” are based on information collected in the early phase of the investigation that are now yielding some results.
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@wpg. that’s the way the judicial world of tro should work and probably most often does.
My sense/opinion of this case is one ADA alum domestic atty went to
the office of another ADA alum elected judge
and ran something by him at the attenuated direction of their old worksite
and called in a collegial favor with “just enough” to rely on ex parte in Portland
(imo it would not have been enough in other jurisdictions).
The question for County taxpayers is how often are these drop in requests honored exparte
& how often contested & won?
Needs to be a 5-year back audit of ex parte tros granted in high conflict divorce cases by an
independent auditor in Mult County (good doctoral thesis)
Amy’s Sister says:
March 5, 2013 at 3:20 pm
UNLESS Kaine had concerns of abuse against Kyron or Kiara by Terri, then he could contact CPS for an investigation but since he has custody he may not feel this would be necessary or even valid.
——————————
Your information about CPS is all accurate, of course, but I would add one more thing just to be clear. If Kaine now has evidence of past abuse of Kyron or Kiara, that is a police matter. CPS will cooperate in a police investigation if they have a file on a child or family. The Dept of Human Services is very clear that although they may turn over evidence to LE, they do not determine or even suggest whether charges should be brought in any particular case.
The mission of Child Protective Services is to protect children and although I don’t know that this is written in statutes, I have been told by CPS several different times that if a child is considered safe (such as living with safe person and the accused abusive parent no longer having any contact with a child), they will not open an investigation about the past. They leave those situations to LE. Therefore, if no one reported concerns about Terri in regard to Kiara’s welfare before this, CPS would not investigate now. (Also, their caseloads are really high.)
If nothing else changes and Terri is granted visitation in the future, and IF someone has concerns about her treatment or parenting of Kiara, then a case might be opened regarding Kiara if the concerns were investigatable. [I don’t think (JMO) a (protective) case could or would be opened for Kyron without him here.] My guess is if a court granted supervised visits and other restrictions re Terri’s contact with Kiara, no one else is going to step in and investigate on top of that without reasons beyond a complaining spouse in a divorce case. Anyone who supervises visits in the future would be a mandatory reporter, which would be another form of protection.
I wonder sometimes whether Terri’s parents asked Kaine if they could see Kiara or whether they could call or send cards or do whatever “grandparently” things they could manage. I wonder if they didn’t ask, thinking it might be difficult for Kiara, or if they see her, but we are not aware. I wonder a lot of things. It’s sad to think that not only has Kiara lost having a mother, but an entire side of her family tree.
Both Kyron’s parents think she either killed him, hid him, or had someone else do both or either- how is that not considered potential abuse?
b
___
Indeed. Especially if she is still parenting James shortly after. Though the probable answer is that Kaine and Desiree felt that Terri would be arrested soon after the investigation began.
That did not happen, Kaine played dirty, Desiree just wanted LE to do their job and find her child, they both eventually went their own ways all the while trying to pressure Terri using various methods which have not worked thus far, and here we are three years later.
More troubling to me is that the bios have never held Skyline accountable. All the eggs have been in the Terri basket. I’ve allowed myself to believe that it’s all been in the best interest of finding Kyron but my patience has worn thin.
I can see that Amy’s Sister, not that it matters to me what your thinking is, or anyone’s for that matter as to how it compares to others, but I am interested in what you feel has changed your opinion, or at least opened it up to the possibility that TMH may not be involved.
I ask because iirc you were pretty resistant to the idea at one point and I am always intrigued by what I consider a consciencious and pensive poster’s evolution in cases. Not putting you on the spot, lol.
B
erose says:
March 5, 2013 at 4:11 pm
Isn’t it true that TH & team never fought the TRO which is why as you say the judge did the right thing? It was the only thing he could do. Isn’t that where the civil v criminal problems/overlap started? If the witness to the main event (MFH) cannot be served, then how can she begin to prove the RO is not necessary?
_________
My understanding is that all Terri needed to do was deny it then the accusing party (Kaine) needed to prove it. It’s not up to Terri to disprove it, it’s up to Kaine to show proof she is a threat, right? Mockingbirdsings?
erose says:
March 5, 2013 at 6:21 pm
________
I’m having a hard time keeping the posts straight… get ahead or beind and lose my spot once in a while. I see you’ve already addressed the RO issue
@MBS, Kiara was such a cute little thing. I agree that Terri’s parents have suffered greatly as a result of all of this.
Tuesday, March 05, 2013
New child abduction bill in Oregon House
By Sean Aaron Cruz
March 5, 2013
http://blogoliticalsean.blogspot.com/
MARCH 5, 2013
Police said 32-year-old Jeremia Raber has a pattern of contacting women through social media and online dating sites to get access to their kids.
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Albany-man–195385991.html
SAME GUY DEC 19, 2012
A 32-year-old Salem man was arrested on Monday on four counts of sex offenses filed in connection with alleged assaults against a
5-year-old Albany girl.
Jeremia Larue Raber was arrested Monday night in Salem. He was charged with first-degree rape, and bond was set at $50,000 on that count. He also was charged with first-degree sex abuse with bond set at $100,000, and he faces first-degree attempted sodomy with bond set at $10,000. All the charges are felonies.
http://democratherald.com/news/local/salem-man-arrested-on-sex-offense-charges/article_cfde8256-4996-11e2-9c9d-0019bb2963f4.html
erose says:
March 5, 2013 at 3:15 am
@vw, MOO = my opinion only.
Thanks. U r a sweetie.
Blink. You sure about this? The kid’s projects grades 1-5 were set up in the classrooms. Of course Kyron’s was front and center in his classroom. The upper grades, 6-8, would prolly have needed the Gym.
Here’s a link to the television station here, and a portion of the news item; the writer states that they got an exclusive on the emails from TMH. Note that tmh saw and maybe talked to Porter both on Thursday and on Friday.
Here is a reference to the “exchange” was made on friday, according to TMH’s emails. She states that she had gone to Kitty’s appointment on Thursday, and then made an appointment for Kyron for the FOLLOWING Friday. Makes sense because she prolly wouldn’t want to take him out of school the until the summer break, which would have started the next Wednesday after the abduction:
PORTLAND, Ore. – Long before news of the alleged murder-for-hire plot and sexting affairs, it seems Terri Moulton Horman knew suspicions were settled on her, according to e-mails written by Horman and obtained first by KATU News.
“They are blaming me in the blogs. I just want to scream,” she wrote in one e-mail to a KATU News source the day after her stepson, Kyron Horman, was reported to be vanished from Skyline School during a science fair.
“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic – had to been 300 people running around – no coordination …”
The reference to her daughter’s doctor visit was not mentioned again in a follow-up e-mail sent later that day:
“I didn’t just drop him off, I spent time with him, took pictures and he was in safe hands I thought as I watched him walk down the hall. “Kids saw him after I left. Teacher put him as absent at 10am. Someplace between 9-10 is when we think it happened.
“I have a receipt showing I was checking out at Fred Meyer 7 miles away at 9:12am. I went to another FM looking for meds for Kitty they didn’t have at the first FM. Then I was trying to get Kitty to sleep in the truck for a few minutes, but no go, so off to the gym at 11:20. Out at 12:20. Home at 12:45. Kaine home at 2. Bus at 3:30. That was my day – they keep asking me. Now on my 5th interview with them …”
Horman went on to talk about Kyron’s recent behavior:
“The past 2 weeks he’s been acting really weird. Staring off into space. Can’t remember anything. Walks into the room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on. The doc thinks that he is having mini seizures and I made an appt on Thursday for next Friday to have him checked out.”
That contradicts what multiple sources have told KATU News. In the days before the science fair, Terri informed Kyron’s teacher he had the appointment that day, June 4, which is why no one expected he would be in class and was marked absent.
Meanwhile on Monday, an acquaintance of Terri Horman said Terri was very upset the weeks before Kyron vanished because she said her husband, Kaine, was making her teenage son move out of the couple’s home.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html
FWIW….Katu in that penultimate paragraph is reaching. All we heard here was, briefly, a vague comment was made by Porter in which she is indirectly quoted as saying she thought he had a doctor’s appointment.
(i’ll try to find the link to that, but many, many stories have been altered or removed).
I’m guessing that when asked by the grand jury she was unable to give proof of that assertion.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
wpg says:
March 4, 2013 at 7:48 pm
“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up?
Blink,
Where in the school did this alleged exchange take place?
Thank you.
Gym, the day before when the exhibits were brought to the school.
B
100% positive. All the displays were brought to a central area and then set up in different classrooms by staff.
Last day of school was June 11th, a week after Ky disappeared and to your point matches the infamous “Friday Dr. appt.”
B
Koch is not the judge in question.
Judges’ Private Custody Meetings Raise Questions
Dale R. Koch is a circuit court judge in Oregon’s Multnomah County and immediate past president of the National Council of Juvenile and Family Court Judges, a group of judges dedicated to improving courts and systems that affect families based in Reno, Nev.
http://womensenews.org/story/domestic-violence/080110/judges-private-custody-meetings-raise-questions
Interesting court order about family court service evals signed by Koch. States forst step when there is a substantial break in relationship is supervised visitation.
http://courts.oregon.gov/Multnomah/docs/FamilyCourt/PresidingJudgeOrder_InTheMatterOfFamilyCourtServiceEvaluationsAndComplianceWithMandatoryMediation.pdf
All of this back and forth about a dr’s appt. – was the doctor’s office appointment records reviewed? I would think that their office could confirm when Kyron’s appointment was scheduled. Is their any confirmation of this from the dr. office?
I understand that it is still questionable as trying to keep dr’s appts. straight for 20 or so children could get confusing, but this discrepancy is either a coverup by the school or part of the plot. MOO
nice finds erose
@erose. I meant the 4:31 urls, not the Blog I stumbled on last night (probably at the same time you did..in sync?) after not visiting in ages.
My reaction was still it’s all about his issue, as it is a fundamentally flawed & useless legislative Study, imo.
First, the scope is too narrow. Second the police are asked to study themselves. A appointed legislative task force should do it (which could include members of academia & the public). Finally the wording is such the police can regurgitate policy, not build a report of actual practices from the totality of actual cases.
by googling I see figuratively you sneeze in Oregon, you get a topical legislative task force,
This one though, a Task Force of US Marshalls’, seems potentially quite fruitful:
http://www.usmarshals.gov/district/or/taskforces/index.html.
I see no reason there could not be a similar task force in OR for ALL abducted children, stranger or acquaintance/family). That would keep rapid response out of unqualified Police Dept’s leadership.
Agreed. And I haven’t visited that blog since you last posted. In came up in a 24 hr search, and wanted to make sure you saw it. That is one theory with merit, where I could say “It would surprise me.”
Who is going to question Mult Co when the immediate past president of the NCJFC was their head guy. Judges judging judges.
Rose says:
March 6, 2013 at 10:00 am
If only we knew what happened at the talent show when Kyron didn’t show.
vw says:
March 6, 2013 at 4:28 am
snip>
That contradicts what multiple sources have told KATU News. In the days before the science fair, Terri informed Kyron’s teacher he had the appointment that day, June 4, which is why no one expected he would be in class and was marked absent.
@vw. all those press articles were always conveying info from bios lips to our ears. Do you really think they second sourced anything?
@Blink. How do you distinguish the Dylan Redwine disappearance
(domestic conflict, likely deceased) from the Kyron case
(domestic conflict pre & post disappearance)?
Sadly, domestic deceased. Very tenuous situation and this is another situation that pizzes me off because this is solvable, release the man’s cell records and ask for the publics help.
@erose. it says a lot to me about Kyron’s informal social status
amongst the staff, particularly his teacher,
that his absence was neither remarkably noted
nor explored further that afternoon at the talent show.
And I bet there were a number
of “high affiliation” positive social status kids
(say even the Keefer child) where all hell would’ve broken loose among
staff & pta until every investigatory avenue was exhausted. none of this
“family business” stuff. The child’s social status (weak on “missability”)
is one indicia he was prepicked in part for that vulnerability by
someone previously in the school observing. I mean you see us stranger
motherly types hot & bothered still, but child & pta Skyline peers dropped
the Kyron potato as soon as they felt “safe.” Do you see the Skyline
pta recruiting volunteers for Kaine’s events? from the beginning? no?
But with a positively affiliated child & family in my local schools
the then pta parent nexus themselves would still 3 yrs later
be holding 3k runs & other fundraising drives & it would carry on.
I asked:
March 4, 2013 at 7:48 pm
“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up?”
Blink,
Where in the school did this alleged exchange take place?
Thank you.
Blink replies:
“Gym, the day before when the exhibits were brought to the school.”
B
____
Sorry, Blink, a couple of questions just to clarify on the teacher/TMH exchange:
“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic – had to been 300 people running around – no coordination …”
Q1:
Even though the rest of the above statements are referencing events occurring on June 4, TMH is referencing June 3 as when she looked at other exhibits when she writes, “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up?”, is that right?
Q2:
Did TMH have “any” verbal exchange with the teacher the morning of June 4?
Thank you x 2, Blink.
Rose says:
March 6, 2013 at 3:17 pm
@vw. all those press articles were always conveying info from bios lips to our ears. Do you really think they second sourced anything?
That too, lol. But from the bios to LE to bios to the ever insatiable (teamers, only, please) press…then to us. Kaine saw much to be gained, IMO. What I can’t figure is how LE (Underhill) lets him get away with the ever mangling of the facts.
Like when he said even after the last hearing, to KATU, that he’d have to go back to “look at the filings” but , no TMH has never, “to my knowledge”, asked to see her daughter. (BTW..the press does not correct him with the facts screaming out of the court door he just left).
I’m beginning to reconsider again that Kaine, and especially TY, drew the attention to TMH as the suspect very early on. TY, for example, told the world via Kate Snow that his first of three strikes against TMH was that she was upset when he told her that first night that now the police would be looking at them. Pretty reasonable for him, but why, within the first nights search? MCSO didn’t even get going searching till after 8pm.
Still, TY had had conversation with the live-in deputy all that time. And I still get the image of two marionettes playing the LE games. Guess i’m going to backpedal on this symbiotic relationship of the bios and LE because of this raw interview:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/terri_hormans_emails_to_kyron.html
(You have to listen to the 25 minute interview…but this represents the birth of the wag-the-dog. On both sides, interviewer and interviewees, the “search” for a real witch and her brood of witch-ettes becomes manifest….but they are both reaching….an obvious attempt to create suspicion out of nothing).
Note how the title of the article is pulled out of a mutual “search” for creating the sinister out of everyday life events.
Amy’s Sister says:
March 6, 2013 at 1:52 am
erose says:
March 5, 2013 at 4:11 pm
Isn’t it true that TH & team never fought the TRO which is why as you say the judge did the right thing? It was the only thing he could do. Isn’t that where the civil v criminal problems/overlap started? If the witness to the main event (MFH) cannot be served, then how can she begin to prove the RO is not necessary?
________
My understanding is that all Terri needed to do was deny it then the accusing party (Kaine) needed to prove it. It’s not up to Terri to disprove it, it’s up to Kaine to show proof she is a threat, right? Mockingbirdsings?
——————–
That is correct. I think the Oregon Family Abuse Prevention Act was designed to help families in which abuse was present but well hidden and often not documented, and to make parents think carefully before accusing the other of abuse as a “divorce tactic”. (There already were ways to obtain RO’s if abuse was documented.) FAPA RO’s can be granted quickly based on the testimony of one parent, but there is still the option for the other to challenge that, which requires that more information be presented to the judge and leaves open the option of other interventions such as supervised visits with children.
I also believe that the intent of the FAPA was mainly to provide a temporary (one year at a time) restraining order during this period of heated emotions until things could be sorted out – sort of an extended time out, but with expectations that for many families, there will be help toward a long term solution during the divorce negotiations, mediation, etc. In some cases it becomes a more permanent arrangement. (This may or may not have been realistic.)
Part of the problem has been that it was so easy for a parent to walk into court and accuse the other, forcing the judge to essentially guess what to do, listen to the smoothest attorney, or toss a coin as to who was right. This way, the accusing parent is heard but that isn’t the end of the story if the other parent disagrees. The burden of proof is always on the shoulders of the person asking for the RO IF the other parent challenges that request within the 30 days allowed.
I think we need to remember that the RO was to protect Kaine due to the MFH accusation. Other than Kaine’s report that Terri was drinking and not putting Kiara to bed at night, I don’t think he made any real accusations that she directly abused Kiara or Kyron (stricter consequences for school behavior may be a conflict but not necessarily abuse) or James while caring for them before June 4th. Therefore, if it hadn’t been for the MFH story, Kaine would not have had a “leg to stand on”, IMO. If Terri had challenged the RO and been asked to take the stand, it seems LE would also have had to “put up or shut up” as they say, so maybe they would have all backed down and settled on supervised visits. Who knows.
http://courts.oregon.gov/polk/pages/restrainingorders.aspx#2 (snipped)
What happens at the hearing requested by the Respondent?
The purpose of the hearing is to decide whether or not the restraining order will remain in effect, and if it does remain in effect, if the order will stay the same or change in some way. The judge may decide not to change the order even if both sides agree that they want the same changes.
At the hearing, you must prove that you have been abused and that you are in danger of further abuse. You should be ready to give your own testimony, call witnesses, and give the judge any evidence you have (such as photos of your injuries). In some cases, if the restraining order stays in effect, it will be against the law for the respondent to have guns. If you are worried about your safety, you may ask for a sheriff’s deputy to be present in the courtroom.
Also:
Oregon: Or. Rev. Stat. 107.425(3) (1990): The court may on its own motion or on a motion of the parties appoint counsel for the children. However, if requested to do so by one or more of the children, the court shall appoint counsel for the children.
(1997 National Legal Research Group, Inc.)
This is so vague – it doesn’t indicate whether the counsel is to protect the child’s interests, or to see that the wishes of older children are considered, or exactly what the goal of “counsel” is. I assume James would not have been able to request this even if he were still under 18 since visitation between Kaine and James would not be a matter for this divorce. Same with Kyron and visitation with Terri, although being closer to his sister’s age, a case could be made for keeping them connected. Only Kiara seems to have a true right to request counsel and, of course, she can’t understand that. I wonder what exactly it would take to get a judge to appoint counsel for Kiara on the “court’s own motion”.
This quote from the emails of TMH brings up some interesting questions:
“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up?
His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic – had to been 300 people running around – no coordination …”
Blink. you stated earlier that this verbal interaction between TMH and Ms Porter occurred in the gym on Thursday. Here’s my thoughts…
1. The gym, on Thursday morning, as a dumping ground, would then have to cleared for the projects of the upper grades on Friday, and for the lower grades the projects would be set up in the rooms for Friday morning inspection by the parents attending the fair.
2. So who took the projects to the rooms and set them up for the lower grades to give their presentations?
The presentations were on Thursday afternoon, according to what i’ve heard.
3. So…let’s say TMH and Porter have just a perfunctory exchange while she’s snapping pictues on Friday morning before she takes Kyron to visit other rooms at about 8:15. As in:
TMH: Kyron loved making this project.
Porter: Yes, it’s a great one.
TMH: Well, we are off to look at other exhibis.
Porter (distracted) didn’t even hear.
So, if I am to believe that Porter is so distracted that she is not listening to TMH, is so distracted that she did not really listen to the “substitute” who thought Kyron was in her pack, is so distracted that she does not return the email later that afternoon from TMH, is so distracted that she doesn’t mark Kyron absent, is so distracted that she doesn’t see and connect the backpack and lunch to Kyron, is so distracted that (I’ve heard) she “forgets” about Kyron’s act at the school play ….. than there is a much bigger problem than meets the eye.
Because we also know that Porter and TMH were working on Kyron’s other issues. Kaine pokes fun at it, but he isn’t in Kyron’s life during the everyday school day. Probably never even questioned a report card or knew what it meant. Porter and TMH were concerned about Kyron’s school issues. Call them what you like, but his grandmother said he often got in trouble for talking too much, and the “green card” system would not have been an issue if Porter wasn’t concerned about his behavior.
Kids that are adorable to those who are not charged with overseeing their education and overall success in life don’t get that even lovable sweethearts can also be a challenge in some academic areas.
TMH took her role as mom very seriously. As her emails state, she sent James home to grandparents and his grades thrived once he left Kaine. She was the concerned parent with Kyron too, wanting him to be a success in school and sports. Kaine resisted…oys will be boys and Kyron didn’t really have any problems at school. Kaine was stricter with James as a young man. Butting heads. But still…listen to his justifications for it on the tape.
If you look at that link above with Oregonlive interview with Kaine and Desiree it is very telling. The emails that were short and perfunctory that day were thus deemed suspicious by Desiree…and later the world. Yet, if you listen closely, when asked more about the nature of the emails, she relates one about the t-shirts and tosses it aside.
That is the mark of an absent mother. TMH has probably ordered and wanted to get her an end-of-the-year t-shirt. That DY dismisses that email as irrelevant says much about her own involvement in Kyron’s life. She was the “happy” once a month mom. Kaine was the let’s have fun dad. Neither were a real parent.
The “real” parent got thrown under the bus.
And the “distracted”/disorganized teacher that couldn’t care less where Kyron was as long as she didn’t have to deal with him…..threw his mother under the bus, too.
Truly, as a teacher I have no respect for Ms. Porter. I understand her confusion and lack of organization that led to this fiasco.
But after the dust settled she should have done the right thing.
What do you mean by Kyron’s other issues he was working on with Ms. Porter and TMH? I have to say that we don’t know for sure what Porter has testified to, or said during her interviews. Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t believe we have ever even heard Kaine or Desiree refer to anything that was Porter specific. Do we believe that she was not contacted by them directly, or by all of them, including TMH immediately (she was off campus when the call came in, however, I am positive she was contacted at home by someone- this did not wait until the next day). I simply could not imagine myself in that situation not calling her, driving to her home, whatever, to hear from her personally what her account of the events was.
I did not get the impression TMH spoke to her on the Dr. appt issue clarification after she came up with it, or after TMH was informed but I do know that Kaine absolutely confirmed their was “talk of a dr.appt) and if I were a betting person that did not go well with him. He knew Desiree was after more custody if not full custody and that TH was in support. These were Desiree’s words.
I really wonder what level of LE was involved in showing Desiree the emails she feels showed TMH hated Kyron and was now capable of harming him.
To my knowledge, Kaine has never addressed them, and he has never included same in his filings which I would think would help him out tremendously in his divorce case. Why did someone need Desiree on their side of the TMH gallows but not include Kaine on this information?
Is Kantor on Spring break?
B
Blink, I wrote a response. It should have a title and references… seriously, it reads like War and Peace. I have to edit it.
It’s not posted yet, right?
B
MBS says:
…if it hadn’t been for the MFH story, Kaine would not have had a “leg to stand on”, IMO. If Terri had challenged the RO and been asked to take the stand, it seems LE would also have had to “put up or shut up” as they say, so maybe they would have all backed down and settled on supervised visits….
____
This is where I keep hitting the snag… Terri simply did not defend herself to any degree even with something as easy as a RO. They are historically fairly easy to have dropped without evidence to support them and visitation with Kiara was on the line.
Thank you for the insight MBS.
a Rodolfo Samchez 2/3-way down Center column
(arrests in last week, dated 3/7/13)
http://www.whosarrested.com/oregon/multnomah-county
Makes one wonder how much the other parents at school cared for (or didn’t care for) TMH, probably never saw KH, most certainly never met DY.
TMH was active as a volunteer in that class, wasn’t she? (I recently saw a picture – maybe the link I posted the other day – of her with Kiara on her lap and reading or talking to the class.
I saw pictures of her at a soccer thing.
I wonder if the other moms either didn’t like her or were kind of jealous of her. Wonder what kind of gossip went on about that family. Wonder who at school overheard any of that and said something to a PERV who they might not have known was a PERV.
Unless you live in the area and know the people and what they think or suspicion, this will probably never get jiggled loose. Seems nobody is talking – except maybe behind the scenes.
@Rose says: March 6, 2013 at 6:25 pm
I think that that woman had probably NO friends in the neighborhood, no real friends with children the same age that she could confide in.
I think Kaine just got really bossy and demanding and she didn’t see any other solution, felt like everyone was coming after her.
So what do you do if you might not be the brightest bulb in the box and nobody makes good suggestions about protecting yourself or your own rights to the baby, or the baby’s rights? You just disappear, hoping this will all be over in the next few weeks and you’ll get your baby back.
She really never got much good advice, did she? (I sure wouldn’t count DDS, or even her parents – who would have told her to take the baby — if she could get her away from demanding daddy).
Some days I think she is guilty.
More days I’m starting to think that HE is up to his eyeballs.
I know that having a SZ in the picture answers all questions and keeps us from finding Kyron.
It’s those two little children who are left with absolutely NO protection, very sad.
@MockingbirdSings says: March 6, 2013 at 9:43 pm
My understanding is that all Terri needed to do . . . . .
a Rodolfo Samchez-Sanchez listed twice here as a client in 1995 (plaintiff against a Surety Co)
http://www.plainsite.org/flashlight/index.html?table=firmcases&page=2&id=39263
btw rodolfo sanchez is very common in Portland–about 15 in beaverton alone
interesting new company (approx 3/12) at Rodolfo & Jaime’s address:
http://www.bizapedia.com/or/JUST-GREEN-LLC.html
another biz at that address (I didn’t want to pay to download doc) registered by someone sharing the surname Angel used in Just Green LLC
“issued20090624
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/…/issued200906…Jun 24, 2009 – Applicant: ANGEL-GOMEZ OCTAVIANO 7169 SE RENADA ST MILWAUKIE, OR 97267 …” from
https://www.google.com/search?q=7169+se+renada+st+milwaukie+or&hl=en&client=safari&ei=WVQ4UdrSEK2z0QH35oD4DA&start=20&sa=N&biw=320&bih=416
I see all the Octaviana Angel-Gomez stuff (& street addr assn with Rudy & Jaime) was on here in Nov 2010
some sort of el ed cafeteria appl:
“issued20090624
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/…/issued200906…Jun 24, 2009 – Description: OREGON TRAIL ELEMENTARY CAFETERIA & CONFERENCE …. Applicant: ANGEL-GOMEZ OCTAVIANO 7169 SE RENADA ST MILWAUKIE, OR 97267 …”
https://www.google.com/search?q=oregon+octaviano+angel+gomez&hl=en&client=safari&ei=dFk4UfD4Cei50QGe4YHIAw&start=10&sa=N&biw=320&bih=417
Ada of Just Green LLC is Adanelia
from
http://www.peoplesmart.com/psp.aspx?_act=resultsmobile&_mbl=1&firstname=gomez&lastname=angel&city=Canby&state=OR&cam=2438&aff=34&utm_source=123People&utm_medium=Advertising&utm_campaign=123PeopleMobile&utm_content=PSP_Partners_123People_Mobile_PPR&tid=PSP_Partners_123People_Mobile_PPR
Spring Break. good excuse and here I was more nefariously thinking he was meeting with attorneys in chambers, as he did in Desiree’s civil case, and talking directly to LE, as he said he felt he needed to do in grasshopper’s notes, to move the case along & avoid an appealable written opinion.
@RedRose. The only thing reported Porter worked on, with the class, was her yucky card system.
To say Kyron & family were low on ” missability” scale & school social starus is not to imply defect in Kyron.
We’ve had kids & parents who died in our schools for whom tge pta & neighborhood still do 3&5 K runs & other fundraising years later NOT prompted or led by remaining parent. I think it odd such support died right away from non-strangers who knew Kyron & family. I think it ties into why he was not ” missable” during the day as well.
Amy’s Sister says:
March 7, 2013 at 2:29 am
MBS says:
…if it hadn’t been for the MFH story, Kaine would not have had a “leg to stand on”, IMO. If Terri had challenged the RO and been asked to take the stand, it seems LE would also have had to “put up or shut up” as they say, so maybe they would have all backed down and settled on supervised visits….
____
This is where I keep hitting the snag… Terri simply did not defend herself to any degree even with something as easy as a RO. They are historically fairly easy to have dropped without evidence to support them and visitation with Kiara was on the line.
************
Here’s the thing though; do TRO’s generally include an allegation of a MFH, which was allegedly provided to the spouse by LE, who will not provide any details in that regard whatsoever? Do TRO’s generally include an allegation of involvement in the disappearance of a child, whose condition is unknown, as to whether or not he is even dead or alive? No, they do not.
JMO, but had Terri gone ahead and responded/fought the TRO, it would have gone something like this:
Judge: Did you ever attempt to hire someone to off your husband?
Terri: No, I did not.
Kaine: LE has provided me with information that says otherwise.
(repeat above questions/answers in regard to Ky’s disapperance)
Judge: LE, can you substantiate this?
LE: We cannot give you this information at this time your Honor as it may affect the outcome of a criminal investigation(s).
End of Story.
I seriously think Terri wanted to fight the TRO, but was advised by Houze, it would not be prudent, at this time, because it is more than apparent that LE is working full time (perhaps unfortunately) at trying to build a circumstantial case against you, in not only the MFH, but the disappearance of your stepson. Once you are on the stand, Ms. Horman, they can ask you anything, such as: “Have you ever told anyone you wished your husband was dead?” etc., etc., etc., All kinds of questions that may make her, circumstantially, seem more guilty.
Would this have possibly have helped Terri in the public opinion arena? Maybe, but I doubt it. Like Rose said earlier, the outcome would be the same.
My question now, is why is her legal team ready to go forward with the divorce proceedings when they were not before, and why is Kaine’s legal team not? The reversal is puzzling to me. Somebody must have something new on somebody. ???
vw says:
March 6, 2013 at 7:38 pm
I’m beginning to reconsider again that Kaine, and especially TY, drew the attention to TMH as the suspect very early on. TY, for example, told the world via Kate Snow that his first of three strikes against TMH was that she was upset when he told her that first night that now the police would be looking at them. Pretty reasonable for him, but why, within the first nights search? MCSO didn’t even get going searching till after 8pm.
******************
TONY YOUNG: I was watching the investigation right from the start.
Tony says that first night, because he knows so much about how police operate, he was walking the family through what to expect.
TONY YOUNG: I explained to each person that now our lives are not private anymore, that the investigators are going to want to know very detailed information about our lives.
That’s when Tony noticed something unsettling. He says Terri, Kyron’s stepmom, seemed to bristle at the idea that she would be questioned.
TONY YOUNG: She instantly started to express some displeasure at that, and not wanting—feeling like she was persecuted. And I thought that was kind of an unusual reaction that early.
But Tony says he wanted to keep an open mind, and the goal, of course, was finding Kyron. The question: Did he wander off, get lost or hurt in the rough terrain around the school?
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38420266/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/
Interesting point, vw, weren’t we all still thinking Kyron was a wandered off lost little boy the first night. After all, according to LE, there was zero sign of any abduction. What did Tony know the first night that we didn’t?
Geeze, this comment now hangs right in there with the family’s pre-father’s day statement about Kyron not going to be there the following Sunday. (That still creeps me out.)
According to his wife he was told instantly that TMH was lying, and that she was a chronic liar. I have to believe that felt relative considered Desiree says a few hours earlier or later TMH told her in her ear that she “loved” her son.
B
RE: Porter and Kyron
Don’t forget that, in addition to the card system, both Kaine & Desiree discussed the fact that Kyron was not listening in school and they included discussions with his teacher in that comment:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/11/27/kyron-horman-missing-civil-suit-against-terri-horman-delayed-and-sealed/comment-page-26/
Kaine: We’ve had some concerns…
Desiree: Yeah.
Kaine: …along with his teacher around listening to instructions from adults while at school, so we’ve been working with him to try to understand that we need to work with the faculty there, the parents there, the volunteers there to make sure that when they give him instructions he’s following those.
He normally does a very good job at doing that. Just occasionally we get a little bit of that behavior ***so we’ve really reinforced with him that if you’re at school and you’re working with a parent or a teacher, you need to follow their instructions.
So in that particular environment he would be expected to follow the instructions of an adult…***
Desiree: Yeah.
Kaine: …at school. Outside of school he’s very well versed in the stranger danger and everything else, ***but in that one particular setting that’s the type of behavior that’s been ***reinforced through all of us***.
Desiree: Yeah.
http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Raw-Kyrons-parents-full-interview-97177194.html
**********
What still bugs me about the above statement by the K & D, is they do not specifically say that he did not listen to Porter, nor that he did not follow her instructions, but the teacher, Porter, is discussing with them, there is someone else at the school, a parent, another adult or other faculty, whose instructions Kyron was not following.
At least the way it was said, that’s how I take it. I would love to know just whose instructions Kyron was not following.
T Ruth- is that video deleted?
B
Okay, I can understand why KH might keep the baby away from her mommy (mean is a good word…)
I can’t understand why he would keep her grandparents (TMH’s folks) away. Or why they aren’t demanding their rights as grandparents. (Editorial comment here – hope he isn’t relying on his own parents for any kind of help. They kind of blew it with their own children!)
I can’t believe TMH’s lawyers told them to not contact KH and ask to spend time with the baby.
Of course, who knows if they have SKYPE or even get to see her? He could always drive down to Roseburg, or they could drive up here? This whole thing really is getting smellier by the day, and that poor little girl and her brother (who I will always think is still alive, because I can’t bear any other thought) are the ones who are missing out.
You would think a DADDY would want what is best for his child, now wouldn’t you?
…and on a different subject, it would be interesting to know who is paying TMH’s legal fees. I don’t think it is her parents, and now wonder if it is someone who Knows More, Knows She is PRobably Innocent, but don’t want anyone else to find out what happened to Kyron.
Well, she could also be the guilty party. She probably felt like she had no rights where Kyron was concerned since she couldn’t/didn’t adopt him away from DY. –and she seems to be the only one who cared enough and could have made a difference in various areas
It has been said here that Terri pointed the finger at RS.aka?
Here’s my question. What exactly was she pointing the finger at him for?
Was it simply because she’d fired him and it ticked him off? Why would she point a finger at RS.aka if she had tried to hire him to kill her husband? That has never made any sense to me. And if it’s not true, there was no MFHP, then why would RSaka make up such a story on her?
Long time ago, Blink said the landscaper is the key. Maybe we don’t know exactly who RS.aka is, but what scenario could have transpired here if not a MFHP? My guess is Terri must have accused RS.aka of something, but what? Why would LE believe a MFHP from this dude over whatever Terri was pointing at him for? Yet we know it can’t be solid evidence, because she’d be in jail. What are we missing? There has to be more going on here than meets the eye.
(I keep ending my sentences in prepositions, sorry.)
O/T, but heads up for Portland:
PORTLAND — Police have released a photo of the suspect in a recent attack at Portland State University, warning anyone who sees him to call 911 immediately.
Investigators believe Timothy Webster, 28, assaulted a woman in broad daylight on the PSU campus on Feb. 25. Now there is a warrant out for his arrest on sex abuse charges.
(snipped)
http://www.kgw.com/home/Police-release-photo-of-suspect-in-PSU-attacks-195875841.html
2011 (trespass) :
http://www.mugshotsonline.com/oregon/portland/timothy-l-webster/11217892
@TRuth. LE was never going to appear in a contested tro hearing, give Kaine an affidavit, allow him to identify his source. The Judfe couldn’t compel LE in a civil case parallel to a criminal investigation.
Kaine would ‘ve gotten on the stand, regurgitated his written doc, & the judge would once again found that sufficed.
Without access to LE, Terri had nothing to contest Kaine with.
In the divorce, Kaine will have to litigate custody the regular way,
and Kaine will have to put Rudy on the stand to be impeached,
so OF COURSE Kaine wants an abatement. Time is on his side.
T. Ruth says:
March 7, 2013 at 12:50 pm
(respectfully snipped)
“My question now, is why is her legal team ready to go forward with the divorce proceedings when they were not before, and why is Kaine’s legal team not? The reversal is puzzling to me. Somebody must have something new on somebody. ???”
My observations, T.Ruth, are that her legal team offered nothing new 4+ weeks ago in going forward with the divorce than they did in 2010.
Financial still appeared to be the only area they would allow TMH to participate in terms of Oregon divorce laws/criteria. Well, actually there is something new there in that they will allow her to answer some questions (of their choosing) regarding financial issues.
As far as Kaine not proceeding, nothing’s changed either, imo.
I recall after the first 3-month abatement in late 2010, both sides agreed to the maximum 2-year extension of the abatement.
Who knows what’s changed, if anything, since 4+ weeks ago, though.
Hopefully* there is some movement on some front.
* lost count how many times I’ve used the word “hopefully” over the past 2 1/2 years
Great catch Blink.
Kgw interview appears to have been recently edited.
You know Houze, Bunch et al needed to believe in dirty pool in Portland from July 2010 & immediately get Court orders requiring specific media (list them all) to preserve original footage. I sense a shredder moment will be discovered. But no Court order, no foul.
“by KGW.com
Posted on June 25, 2010 at 12:16 PM. Updated Thursday, Feb 10 at 1:42 PM”
So why was it edited Feb 10, 2013?
Isn’t kgw the station with Kyle who imo is one of KH’s frequent interviewers?
http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Raw-Kyrons-parents-full-interview-97177194.html
a fine & undoubtedly very difficult interview TRuth
http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Raw-Kyrons-parents-full-interview-97177194.html
@11:03 Kaine said, “Riding the bus is one of his favorite things to do in the day.” Obviously that morning he didn’t. But the bus driver might ‘ve stopped into school after his am drop, maybe needed a bathroom or something. Who was that route driver who made the ride a favorite of Kyron?
approx 13:00 KH states both he & Terri have accompanied field trips to Sauvie. So much for school uninvolvement.
approx 15:00: Kaine gives the example of how unventuresome, how sedentary, Kyron is by saying he’d sleep for 12 hours & still want to stay in bed with his activities ( ie reading) until you went to get him. Kaine’s affect is proud. That’s by contrast with the “Terri told him to stay there” line.
17:50 KH distinguishes a friend of Terri speaking on behalf of Terri from “the family” (defined as the bios only) speaking. Imo the
Horman’s rift was present then.
20:00 searched property w/o warrants
20:18 approx
Kaine said his computers
were not part of the search
I’m another hamster, wpg
T. Ruth says:
March 7, 2013 at 1:17 pm
@Blink says:
T Ruth- is that video deleted?
B
Hmmm, don’t know, it’s like it’s loading but nothing’s happening, at least on my computer.
*************
@Rose says:
March 7, 2013 at 2:33 pm
Xactly, what I was trying to say in my lay way, and you don’t know how long it took me to get that through my head either. It took me forever to understand why Terri’s attorney would not respond. Of course, she could be guilty as hell too, which would also be a good reason. LOL
@rose & wpg,
Yeah, you’re probably right, nothing has really changed. The only way it’s changed is if one looks at the very beginning court documents, one wanting a quick divorce (Kaine) and the other wanting abatement (Terri). Round and round we go. (I was looking for a comment the other day that I recall Kaine making about maybe he would consider visitation at some point, but I can’t find it, I was trying to remember when exactly that was, if anyone knows, I’d appreciate it.)
I guess what’s needed in this case, is for LE to finally do something, as Desiree hopes Underhill will. They have about 5 months left before Desiree’s stay is over. Yeah, wpg, let’s hope is right.
VIDEO ARCHIVE
NOVEMBER 12 2010 . . . Dateline
broken down into 30-second videos (including commercials), but this is the complete segment on Kyron as far as I remember from watching the original airing back on November 12, 2010:
http://archive.org/details/KNTV_20101113_050000_Dateline_NBC#
(a sports game preempted local viewing in areas, if I remember right)
ps
This November 12, 2010 episode was taped after DY became aware of certain details as a result of KH’s divorce filings, but she had not yet been shown “the emails” during the taping of the show (as far as my timeline seems to indicate).
Maybe the use of the word parent is a tell. We know that TH volunteered in the classroom. How many other parents did so? Was Kyron not cooperative with one of them for a reason? Maybe Kyron was exposed to a parent in his classroom prior to the SF. Maybe that parent came with his own child on SF day and acted on a highly confusing day to abduct Kyron. Maybe this person was not even a chaperon, just another parent.
T. Ruth says:
March 7, 2013 at 1:17 pm
snip>
He normally does a very good job at doing that. Just occasionally we get a little bit of that behavior ***so we’ve really reinforced with him that if you’re at school and you’re working with a parent or a teacher, you need to follow their instructions.
I always feel like we are on the verge, but never quite there. Even if we can get 99 pieces of this real life puzzle to fit, there always seems to be that one piece does not.