Kyron Horman Missing: Civil Suit Against Terri Horman DELAYED AND SEALED- Prompted By NEW LEADS
Portland, OR- As many of you have been following since June 2010, there is a new development today in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
As predicted at BOC, the civil suit brought by Deisree Young, Kyron’s Mother, against Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and the defacto suspect in his disappearance has been granted an abatement.
In a sealed filing, motions by Assistant District Attorney Michael Schrunk and Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton were granted, delaying the suit . The motions included supporting affidavits that continuing the action as already ruled would compromise the investigation.
The decision presents an ironic twist .
Terri Horman’s lawyers originally fought vehemently to abate the action, but were unsuccessful. As recently as last week, the Judge in the case ordered medical records to be accessible to both parties to the action.
In Judge Kantnor’s decision to NOT abate the suit at the request of Attorney Peter Bunch for Terri Horman, the Multnomah County Prosecutors Office declared “no position” on the matter after being contacted by the court.
It is not known if that order prompted the request to delay the suit .
Sheriff Stanton, Eldin Rosenthal, Norm Frink and Stephen Houze declined comment at press time.
On Monday, Judge Henry Kantor granted the motions to abate the civil proceeding and ordered the motions and affidavits filed by the district attorney and sheriff sealed.
A hearing had been scheduled for Dec. 14 to hear Young’s attorney argue before the court to compel testimony from DeDe Spicher, an alleged witness in the case. Today’s ruling is likely to render a postponement of that proceeding.
Sheriff Dan Staton, told Oregon Live, it is based on early leads that are now panning out:
“There are a couple of investigative pieces that are going to open up,” Staton told The Oregonian Tuesday. “Our belief is they’re going to open up several investigative doors.”
He said the new “investigative avenues” are based on information collected in the early phase of the investigation that are now yielding some results.
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“well, that solves that wpg- as I read that- Kaine has never seen them, or at least the is not copping to it. I find that beyond peculiar.
B
I may have mislead in typing out that one question and answer, Blink, in that this was the only exchange on the emails.
OLive captured an 8-minute or so portion of the November 15 2010 presser, and it has a few QandA’s on the emails including right at the beginning of the video:
http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/11/kaine_horman_news_conference.html
To note, the statement DY made regarding email(s) content – - “and she talked about hurting him” – - was published November 16, the day after her Today Show appearance and KH’s presser. Questions by the media may have been more pointed had they heard that comment from DY on The Today Show, but they didn’t because she hadn’t said it on The Today Show, and imo no way was KH going to offer that up as a content descriptor.
I don’t see the exclusion in the civil cases of these particular emails IF what DY has said is a true indicator of content. IF the content is indicative of DY’s statement, they may be evidence that is not being released for civil purposes.
Just a thought, moo.
Fair consideration, wpg, absolutely. However, given the narrative and lack of substantive good faith in the complaint, they needed that whether it is hearsay or not. Moreover, Kaine has used LE info in his legal business if you will, and it WILL have to be part of the tort given DY’s public comments.
My personal opinion is that they cannot be authenticated but it did not stop whomever offered them to DY. If I am right, this would not be the first thing I have seen presented as fact that is anything but.
B
@Blink. you’re right I bet that statement of Kaine’s in the video that she set things up so she could be the “solver” related to Kyron as to “seizures,” school adjustment, James’ move (imo he was conveying her talk that they butted heads was untrue), and so on.
So my money is on the emails LE showed them previous Friday were a litany of Kyron’s ills (whatever they were) and the stress or trouble managing them was causing her, as well as the arguments with Kaine.
he seems most determined to be upfront about those months of arguments in this video to put that issue behind him. If so, he got PR advice somewhere.
I bet Munchhausen was mentioned to him by someone on the LE/DA team the preceding Friday in conjunction with email review, and maybe that’s why his attorney & the ADA thought a custodial psychological of her would be a cakewalk. But imo that Syndrome wouldn’t begin with James in Sr Hi and after she’d reared Kyron for 6 years–and after all SHE got the glasses.
It absolutely does not fit this crime, no how. Do i expect a grieving parent to exclude it? Of course not. I would expect with everything else that they hold it as a reasonable possibility- especially one they would not be trained or educated to see.
Most especially because this case is missing the part where TMH saves the day.
But let’s say for the sake of argument the concept was a potential investigative theory.
TMH would not be my first POI on theory alone.
Really makes me wonder if Kaine’s comments were about Ky, or perhaps that Dec 911 call.
B
ps if she had Munchausen’s the last thing she’d do would be disappear Kyron before she got the completed form from Porter (proving her right of course) and finished the doctor’s appointment. I can’t wait for depo of ADA at that time, or Kaine, as to any refs to Munchausen’s, descriptively whether or not by name.
Blink,
If there are emails with content about hurting Kyron, could they be used to show probable cause?
I’m thinking about the original TRO filed in 2010 where KH states:
(snipped from OLive article, dated July 8 2010)
“I believe respondent is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been missing since June 4, 2010. I also recently learned that respondent attempted to hire someone to murder me,” Kaine Horman wrote in his petition. “The police have provided me with probable cause to believe the above two statements to be true.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/judge_releases_restraining_ord.html
I’m also thinking that although KH in an interview (prior to the sting) answered that LE did not take their computers, there’s the possibility of course that LE made a copy of each computer’s hard drive.
Left the computers for continued Horman family use, took copies for LE use.
If they were authenticated, absolutely. Possibility that prob cause or a warrant was not necessary depending upon who provided them.
B
@Rose
Regarding KATU and “sources” and emails by “Terri”: ( Parenthetical remarks by MOI).
*******snipped for emails only
PORTLAND, Ore. – Long before news of the alleged murder-for-hire plot and sexting affairs, it seems Terri Moulton Horman knew suspicions were settled on her, according to e-mails written by Horman and obtained first by KATU News. (This statement is no “news” to anyone).
“They are blaming me in the blogs. I just want to scream,” she wrote in one e-mail to a KATU News source the day after her stepson, Kyron Horman, was reported to be vanished from Skyline School during a science fair. Investigators say Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron.
“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic – had to been 300 people running around – no coordination …” (This might be from TMH, but not to DY…see below).
The reference to her daughter’s doctor visit was not mentioned again in a follow-up e-mail sent later that day:
“I didn’t just drop him off, I spent time with him, took pictures and he was in safe hands I thought as I watched him walk down the hall.
“Kids saw him after I left. Teacher put him as absent at 10am. Someplace between 9-10 is when we think it happened. (Porter told her the exact time, and yet PPS didn’t report it for a week?)
“I have a receipt showing I was checking out at Fred Meyer 7 miles away at 9:12am. I went to another FM looking for meds for Kitty they didn’t have at the first FM. Then I was trying to get Kitty to sleep in the truck for a few minutes, but no go, so off to the gym at 11:20. Out at 12:20. Home at 12:45. Kaine home at 2. Bus at 3:30. That was my day – they keep asking me. Now on my 5th interview with them …”
(Don’t think these were sent from DH. Or at least they were not WRITTEN to her. BUT — Could she have gotten them from LE later and “forwarded” them? She was here in Portland, and ostensibly staying in the Horman home on Sheltered Lane the day after the kidnapping).
Horman went on to talk about Kyron’s recent behavior:
“The past 2 weeks he’s been acting really weird. Staring off into space. Can’t remember anything. Walks into the room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on. The doc thinks that he is having mini seizures and I made an appt on Thursday for next Friday to have him checked out.”
(This part of the emails is HIGHLY suspect as having been sent the day after the kidnapping. Notice the tenses. “he’s been” = past to now, “thinks” = present, etc. I would find the whole “sourcing” thing more reliable (as being from a TMH friend) if there was reference to this last email seqment being sent from TMH at another time – like the day before).
That contradicts what multiple sources have told KATU News. In the days before the science fair, Terri informed Kyron’s teacher he had the appointment that day, June 4, which is why no one expected he would be in class and was marked absent. (Where’d KATU get THIS from???)
Meanwhile on Monday, an acquaintance of Terri Horman said Terri was very upset the weeks before Kyron vanished because she said her husband, Kaine, was making her teenage son move out of the couple’s home.
Also on Monday, friends of Terri who worked out with her at 24-Hour Fitness testified before a grand jury.
(what about the Starbuck’s workers who appeared before the grand jury…did they testify that day)?
According to sources, the friends were not extremely close to Terri but they were close enough that Terri often confided in them with issues from her home. (So…who’t the “source”?)
IMO…There has never been anything official regarding TMH writing these emails, nor verification that they were not “altered” before someone clicked on “send”. At BEST, KATU did not proof for discrepencies in tense and dates emails were alledgely written.
BTW…the whole “doctor” appointment. When it was made, what was needed for it, why Kaine didn’t have a clue, when and how the teacher was notified of it (if she ever was), how it got blamed for the kidnapping conspiracy, etc….is an issue that is pivotal…and all the “suspician of” and “clouding of” it by everyone involved. That and the MFH “thingy” — a class A felony in oregon (conspiracy) that carries up to 20 years …. or, in this case a Solomon-like decision.
See Willamette Week (for 687 pp of emails) & late Sunday article re Cogen. I am puzzled when Council Chair has what seems criminal, divorce, & alienation of affection cases on board, with the City Attorney investigating, that (1) press files complete FOIA, (2) Gov’t responds with 687 of emails and is busy dumping complete phone records to public tomorrow, but will disclose nothing to public on Kyron (electronics, emails). I don’t see County Attorney saying it will impede my investigation to go public. If ever anyone needed Houze/Bunch, it’s Jeff. Coolio, as he retorts in his emails.
Anyone ever see this before, and/or know where it may have come from?
http://first-thoughts.org/on/Kyron+Horman/
Kyron Horman will never be found until the truth about the motive for his demise is told. The only thing that will expose Terri is the truth. But Terri knows no one wants to see it. She is using your refusal to accept the truth and expose it to her complete advantage. In simple terms.If Kyrons parents don’t step up and expose the dirty laundry…he will stay buried under it and they will never get him back. I’m sorry Kaine and Desiree.but it is the reality that my family has helped put you in.I exposed it.and it cost me almost everything my heart cherishes…but I had to keep it fair if I was going to tell. so I showed my skeleton also…it is the same one.showing it is not as painful as keeping Kyron covered by it. If you really want closure.the road to it is going to be extremely painful and embarrassing, but it is the one you will have to travel.I’m on it now…a head of you. There is nothing anyone else can do now, you must make the choice to stay silent and risk never finding him. or risk showing it …
**********
I just wondered about the part that says “my family has helped put you in”. Strange post.
@Paula says:
July 21, 2013 at 12:54 pm
One thing I have always wondered about Desiree is why she moved to Medford. Up until, I believe, 2004 she was living in the Portland area. What would cause a mother to just up and move 4 hours away from her children? Do we know when and how Desiree met Tony? I wonder if he’s the reason she moved.
@ve. I was talking specifically about the email describing James’ post-move improvement that “a news source” forwarded directly to katu.
LE would not have forwarded any emails.
The “briefer” would have shown the bios printouts
which would not be released to them. The purpose would be to garner more details and/or generate reaction (not in their best interests) from the bios. Kaine apparently had an attorney now telling him “control your reactions” publically.
Desiree stated Terri sent numerous “venting” emails to her. Imo the James email is one of them whose motivation, like venting about the school, was designed to get Desiree to put Kyron in better circumstances.
The 687 pg email release wrt the Council Chair shows the value of releasing all emails publically. Far from impeding an investigation, it can aid by generating more tips. It can also force the criminal
prosecution to occur as the City Attorney cannot coverup. Imo Terri’s weren’t released because both bios would repeatedly be painted in equally bad lights, given what we know of Terri’s frustration with both, and Terri would look good at times. Particularly illuminating would be her emails to her parents.
(mattering involving innocent 3rd parties are redacted with blackout in foia emails)
@Blink. If it is a working theory, to show a pattern it must have tied into that Dec 911
ambulance call. I bet those exRiver Patrol mcso’s think repeated 911 calls are a Munchausen’s
symptom. Back a month ago when Anti-TH url was up here & before it it subsequently became
private, I looked a couple times. In 2011 Desiree commented on her tie to M Herron (mcso).
I think he later promoted up from a search coord to det in charge of case. (I have to
wonder if investigation morphed into a “keep the bios happy & quiet mission.)
Kaine mentions in video “other activities” seeming to tie in with his own online research.
Imo not the best route for him to evaluate LE’s representations to him.
He needed his own private criminal attorney with investigator & team
as “consultants” to him to privately eval what he was told in each briefing.
@Blink. Thinking of how Kaine needed a private criminal defense attorney “consultant” originally to help him privately process MCSO briefings, it occurred to me MCSO deliberately as a strategy optimized Rudy’s persona to divide & conquer and marginalize Terri & Kaine. It seems to me as a couple they should’ve had a seasoned attorney advisor/coach from the get go, because there was a criminal out there somewhere and a seasoned criminal attorney would know how an investigation should be conducted. Instead Kaine got a divorce attorney not uptodate on criminal procedure and able to advise on criminal case, also not independent from DA.
Rackner is a former DA, she knows the drill well.
B
True, but it doesn’t strike me she’s independent in the criminal investigation
from the agenda or modus operandi of DA/MCSO offices in
this case, as evidenced by the support for original RO (lack thereof).
We’ve seen how terri was targeted but still not why they chose her. Sheer convenience? why her instead of an unknown perp, at least until they came up with decent evidence? they have turned somersaults trying to get her charged and convicted. Why?
Blink,
What I was asking (but not with clarity) regarding emails and probable cause is:
1. If LE, hypothetically, retrieved emails from the computers sometime in June 2010,
and then
2. presented, hypothetically, to KH some of the communications content pertaining to Kyron,
3. could that (email content) be what KH may in part, hypothetically, be referring to in the original TRO of June 2010 as what was provided to him by LE in terms of probable cause? :
“I believe respondent is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been missing since June 4, 2010. I also recently learned that respondent attempted to hire someone to murder me,” Kaine Horman wrote in his petition. “The police have provided me with probable cause to believe the above two statements to be true.”
Yes wpg, it could be. The affidavit is so thin, it could literally be LE’s interpretation of probable cause as a layterm and not the legal definition. HOWEVER, that is what I believe will open the door to Bunch’s argument re hearsay. TMH would be within her rights to confront the basis of the hearsay as it relates to probable cause wording.
In short- this judge has to weigh the scope here and right now, it is slightly larger than the Lincoln Tunnel. That is absolutely unacceptable in a custody matter of a toddler devoid of corroboration as to the basis of it’s ruling “status quo”.
Honestly, in a general sense, the only way this RO got through the first time is that it was likely that TMH atty’s are going to argue that she was acting in good faith to preserve his rights, daughter’s safety because she had no idea who was responsible for Ky disappearance and had her own general fears. Can you tell I am over the legal backbends this court has exacted to the alienation of Mother and child?
B
@grasshopper says:
We’ve seen how terri was targeted but still not why they chose her
—————————
Statistically speaking, it is more likely that a child is abducted by a family member than a stranger. I believe that the LE fixated on this probability and began to focus on how this could have happened rather than looking at the evidence to see what might have happened.
Family prefers the stepmom as perp because then they can believe that Ky is safe somewhere. The public prefers the stepmom because then their children are safe. So there is no pressure to work any other theory.
Incidentally, I have been wondering how the statistics change when the identity of the kidnapper is not known. What I mean is, in many family abductions, it is immediately known that the family memeber has taken the child and is only a matter of finding the child. When it is not known who took the child, how do the statistics play out?
Also of note … it is my understanding that the definition of kidnapping for these statistics includes only children taken out of the area and for overnight.
Here is a link for the statistics from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
http://www.missingkids.com/KeyFacts
@Rose
Yes. gotcha. That one could be to DY. Do we know when it was sent? It sure would go along with my theory that the name change timed to get James to Roseburg for the second semester, and then her renewal of her certification in March was a signal (to Kaine, too?) that the mommas were BOTH not that happy with daddy. I sometimes go with Blink on DY simply being very, very gullible and not reacting on more than a visceral level (which has gained her much in this sad tale). The communication had been strong between moms before the disappearance. And i’m sure all 3 were/are racked with guilt on what they did or didn’t do to prevent this.
But just some thoughts. I’ve been reading some early reports, that haven’t been yanked yet. James was coming up for a visit and Kyron going down that weekend. TMH was ordering a class t-shirt for Desiree, was going to get the project for her to look at. TMH had worked with Kyron on the project. Prolly ready to take a break. Who was going to drive down to Springfield? Kaine, after the “ice cream”. Or was TMH…to have a one-to-one with Desiree in Sprinfield, before she brought James back? No, wait. James was camping. A week-end alone with Kaine and Kitty? Quinn’s dad would take the boys down? No, James was camping with Tarver then coming up over the weekend? A weekend without Kyron. But Kaine in no way, no matter how many times he tied Kiara’s shoes, kissed her, walked her to the bus-stop, sped to the school (all with TMH having a lessoned role each time he related his afternoon) ever addressed the email and why they didn’t go pick up the project. Why, on an “afterthought” during one of his “recollections” he remarked that he thought Kyron would be at the school waiting for him and the ice cream.? What about the talent show? Why nothing said about it? What did TMH and Kaine do once they got to the school? Who told them about the “chaperone” that wouldn’t have said something to the media on Friday evening? Why hasn’t Kaine ever said what they did at the school’s office? Guess what i’m getting at, finally, is the 911 calls AT THE SCHOOL. By TMH. Why doesn’t LE want anyone to know about them, won’t give them to Houze. Nor will Kaine talk about them.
@Blink….Rackner was assistant DA, as was Judge M, and Rosenthall (a club…prolly hung out at the Jewish community center, and had their kids’ Bar Mitzvah’s there).
From memory neither Kaine nor Desiree knew anything about the talent show in advance of Kyron’s disappearance. It was discussed at length in kaine’s usual vague context and that included, iirc, that they were checking on it, and whether or not Ky was scheduled to participate.
B
What many posters here are referring to as “Munchausen’s” is actually “Munchausen’s by Proxy”. Munchausen’s is when a person either fakes an illness or creates an illness to himself to receive attention. Munchausen’s by Proxy is when a person fakes or creates illness in another person. A picky point, but it is a very important distinction.
Munchausen’s by proxy involves very frequent 911 calls, doctor visits, ER visits and often multiple hospitalisations. I have seen nothing to suggest that TMH and Kyron were ER “frequent fliers”. I have seen no reports of Kyron being admitted to the hospital or of frequent absences from school. TMH may have been an overprotective and possibly histrionic parent, by Munchausen’s by Proxy would be very unlikely in this case.
I agree with this, it was me who brought up the munchausen’s by proxy theory as it relates to Kaine’s comments- loosely translated, accusing TMH of creating problems or situations with the children so she could fix them.
For LE to share (allegedly) emails with DY- which according to her are tantamount to motive in Ky’s disappearance, I have to believe this is or was LE theory in whole or in part. It is warranted as a possibility until it can be excluded in the initial stages of poi analysis. The stats overwhelmingly support a parent being involved whether directly or indirectly, and from what I have read and uncovered personally, we are dealing with a LE agency who had little to no experience in similar cases. Having taken courses taught by former FBI and current civilian assets who consult on cases like Ky’s – I can tell you that the designation of a sexually motivated oppty-based stranger abduction is extremely rare and there is usually more of an absence of evidence of any other suspect or theory that begins the possibility from an investigative perspective.
That is present in this case. As long as it cannot be excluded, it has to be part of the investigation and this is where I believe a significant lack of expertise in the aforementioned harms the outcome of this case. I have no doubt whatsoever that LE was absolutely driven and committed to find Kyron and ultimately who is responsible for his disappearance and likely death so I wish to be clear that I am not condemning professionals who have been reacting and following what they perceived as evidence in the case. In fact, I can tell you that I have a colleague (former FBI) who agrees with me that the possibility of my profile has not been excluded, but finds the nexus of a person who would solicit the death of a spouse (if true) a natural evolution to arranging the disappearance or similar crime to a child ( bio or other). I agree the potential is there, but it does not fit the markers in this case whatsoever- inasmuch as Kaine is very alive, and we know that TMH made the 911 call in December where presumably Kaine is alleging that by some means, TMH was responsible for trying to kill him.
When an investigative theory is reached without proper basis enough to even secure an indictment, LE is duty-bound to to mash that playdoh back into a ball and start over- with NEW EYES and new skillsets, imo. Seems to me they have had quite a few extra months “without interference” to do just that. I am anxious to see what comes of it.
B
grasshopper says:
July 22, 2013 at 6:46 pm
We’ve seen how terri was targeted but still not why they chose her. Sheer convenience? why her instead of an unknown perp, at least until they came up with decent evidence? they have turned somersaults trying to get her charged and convicted. Why?
*********************************************
Haven’t checked in for quite a while but read this today. All I can say to this is that there was some “evidence” that absolutely pointed to Terri but it was not enough for the DA to think they could convict. To this day, the LE that I know still believe they had it right and are frustrated they couldn’t finish the job and bring justice. Could they be wrong? Of course!
It seems that these friend-to-friend emails that were released to KPTV way back when, (sorry original link no-worky) came via a mutual acquaintance of Kaine & Terri’s, not Desiree’s. Someone both Kaine & Terri held as a friend, as this person talked to Kaine earlier.
This makes me wonder if the other emails posted up-thread where Terri allegedly vented hate towards Kyron, also came from this same source. In either case, I believe it was Kaine Horman who was behind the release of all the emails, just as he released the sexts. That’s the reason, I think anyway, he had little comment on the emails Desiree took to heart because he’d already seen them long before.
wth does give a mark for the FBI mean? I take that to mean in her opinion it was the FBI who informed Kaine of his rights? What interaction did she have with agents directly?
B
Friend-to-friend emails:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-13/
Midwest Mom says:
February 7, 2011 at 11:47 am
Maybe someone can expand on this. If this source is correct, then TH told LE that she traveled down hwy 30 on June 4th.
http://www.kptv.com/local-video/index.html
A “friend” to a “friend”
E-mails shed light on the day of horman split
I was talking to her in general, Just to say, “How are you, anyway I can help I will, ETC” and she ended up telling me about how they are still very focused on Sauvie Island and telling me that she was driving down highway 30 on the day kyron disappeared, ETC But she doesn’t know why they are focusing on the island. I don’t know. It is all weird. Where is the Boy?
______________
June 26th
Not looking so good for Terri, is it. Terri called me this afternoon a couple of hours after I talked to Kaine. Said she was having a bad day – that she and Kaine had a fight. She was driving. Then said she noticed a detective following her and had to go.
*******
1. if LE was looking at Terri, then why suavie Island
2. Chas is LE looking for some one to come forward and say, hey I saw her also
3. “chas” is LE looking for someone to say, TH wasn’t on Hwy 30 she was somewhere else.
4. LE was looking on Suavie for some other reason than TH
5. Chas was on Hwy 30 and is a reliable witness to TH account of where she was that day.
6. the “friends” have it all wrong
IDK, It seems that if TH had anything to do with Kyrons disappearance, it is only hurting LE case by waiting so long. It was on the news that Terri went down hwy 30. if there is a SZ they would also know this.
Hang on, what time did Terri say she noticed a detective following her on the 26th?
B
Midwest Mom says:
February 7, 2011 at 11:51 am
More of the emails from same video above
WAS WRITTEN ON KH INTEL E-MAIL
June 26th, 11:45pm
Okay, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don’t want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don’t
hear from you in an hour I will call 911
________________________
TH email to a friend
June 27th,
I just called 911. They directed me to non-emergency. Guess What? Since we are married we have joint custody and he can do that. Gee, too bad I didn’t know that. I told the dispatch who we are in relation to the kyron horman case and she is having someone call me. Give a mark for the FBI
_____
Since the first email was on KH email, i would think he was the source for the news.
where is Kaine? we haven’t heard anything from him in awhile. The new searches and he is silent. I wonder why?
******************
Anywho, if the above is true, I still wonder why Terri was driving down hwy 30 on June 4 and what time. I could never fit it in to the other locations that we know of in the timeline. And if true, does it make Chas’ sighting relevant. Anyone?
@grasshopper says:
July 22, 2013 at 6:46 pm
We’ve seen how terri was targeted but still not why they chose her. Sheer convenience? why her instead of an unknown perp, at least until they came up with decent evidence? they have turned somersaults trying to get her charged and convicted. Why?
************
The alleged MFH. I say that, but…..something, something made both Gates and Staton choke up when they were turning this into a criminal case. It can’t be evidence of Kyron’s demise, because Terri would be in jail, wouldn’t she? I’m wondering if the alleged hurtful/hateful email is what made them choke up. Could it be that violent in nature? Is it possible they have the email that says Terri wanted to kill/hurt Kyron, but they cannot prove it came from her? IDK, just rolling a thought around.
Blink says:
I agree the potential is there, but it does not fit the markers in this case whatsoever- inasmuch as Kaine is very alive, and we know that TMH made the 911 call in December where presumably Kaine is alleging that by some means, TMH was responsible for trying to kill him.
Was there an attempt on Kaine’s life in December 2009 that resulted in Terri 911 call? I was not aware any actual attempt had been made.
grasshopper, Kaine made the allegation that TH tried pay someone to kill him at the end of 2009. It evolved to “our landscaper” although Kaine is on record saying he never knew they had a landscaper prior to that.
As a result, Houze/Bunch tried to FOIA request the 911 call from December and was declined due to the “ongoing investigation.” The Dec call has to be related to a potential criminal matter for it to be withheld from a public request, so it is my educated presumption that issue is directly relevant to the mfh allegation.
Interestingly, Kaine’s allegation never mentions it, not does he specify a date- which I feel would be pretty damn important to a prima facie.
AND subject to at least an in camera review by this judge. I feel pretty strongly that Bunch’s attempt to attack the basis of the RO is going to seek review of that given that he is arguing “hearsay”. The only reason that Houze would seek to have that transcript or recording ( when one can safely assume he already knows what is on it and context, subsequent action, etc)in the first place would be to refute an allegation for his client.
I also recall that TMH’s parents suddenly decided to come for Christmas for a few days around that time.
Attempting to solicit for mfh and actual attempted mfh carry the exact same penalty under Oregon law, but obviously the burdens of proof are different.
If she did, she must have been on the extended Whimpy Burger plan.
I will gladly pay you for your hit on my husband 6 months from now, for a hit today.
Does that make sense to anyone? er, No.
What does make perfect sense to me, is that LE knows that even if the mfh had legs, which I doubt highly or she would have been indicted or charged, absolutely, that it is what is known under the law as a separate criminal incident.
What better way to reduce that issue as an obstacle than to set up a ruse during the investigative efforts for the abduction whereby you use the players and perhaps witnesses from incident one and tie it to incident #2 on the record? Voila- they become inexorably linked, right?
Man, I cannot wait to read the search warrant affi’s for the ruse. That probable cause narrative has better be pretty detailed.
B
inasmuch as Kaine is very alive, and we know that TMH made the 911 call in December where presumably Kaine is alleging that by some means, TMH was responsible for trying to kill him.
———-
JMO
This is interesting because it seems like only in retrospect did Kaine determine that TH designed to kill him in December of 2009.
It could not have been anything overt because if the attempt was obvious then Kaine would have left TH after the accident in 2009.
information about a contrived accident that left Kaine injured or disabled for a time would have leaked by now from a friend or relatives of the Horman’s.
The landscaper (RS) was probably not involved (at least as far as Kaine knew at the time) because he is still employed by the Horman’s after Christmas.
Since 911 was called to the house then TH probably did not attempt to push Kaine off a high cliff or something that would have taken place in another location.
Maybe someone took a shot at Kaine and missed? That would account for a call to 911 even though there was no lasting injury.
@ Rose: “Particularly illuminating would be her emails to her parents.”
I actually haven’t thought about this. Rose, do you think that Terri’s parents’ computers were taken into custody? Do you think they were given poly’s and/or went before the GJ?
T. Ruth says:
July 23, 2013 at 11:28 am
The alleged MFH. I say that, but…..something, something made both Gates and Staton choke up when they were turning this into a criminal case. It can’t be evidence of Kyron’s demise, because Terri would be in jail, wouldn’t she? I’m wondering if the alleged hurtful/hateful email is what made them choke up. Could it be that violent in nature? Is it possible they have the email that says Terri wanted to kill/hurt Kyron, but they cannot prove it came from her? IDK, just rolling a thought around.
——–
IMO
If we have our Police weeping on camera because of some nasty comment about a child made in an email by a wicked stepmother then i have to wonder about the caliber of our stalwart protectors. I don’t think an email would even make me tear up un public let alone a supposed hardened LE veteran.
Just saying
@January. If Terri was writing Desiree several long emails a day, often ventung,
imo she was doing the same to Mom.
Likely why the Moultons had been visiting.
Probably fewer arguments in their presence.
@January. I do not think the ADA would send a subpoena to appear at the GJ for her parents who would vouch for her character or offer exculpatory evidence of Terri, and might paint Kaine in a bad light.
imo, if there are communications “in writing” (DY stated “she put it all in writing”) such as emails where a primary care-giver mother talks about hurting her 7-year old child/son/stepson coupled with perhaps communications containing resentment towards a parent, 2 parents and/or the child, and communications that show a hatred from a caregiver/mother/stepmother towards a child, THIS MAY BE what Staton was referring to by what “may surprise you” and keeps his men and women up at night.
fwiw, the first time I read and heard DY say “she talked about hurting him” I was absolutely floored and wondered omgosh is this true, could this be true?
What these emails and other communications did not offer as I recall KH stating at the time, is where Kyron might be.
Finding Kyron has been the priority of both DY and KH, with justice for Kyron coming second. KH has stated this on more than one occasion, and obviously DY’s tort is of that same goal, imo.
As far as Staton and Gates tearing up a week after Kyron’s disappearance, as LE and like LE “everywhere” they know the odds and what that amount of time means to a missing child. They could not find Kyron, even after an intensive search that including aircraft equipped with infra-red on the chance he had wandered from the school and was out there lost, but alive. Hard not to take it to heart.
jmo’s
I see you are as open to all the possibilities as am I. None of us know what happened. For the sake of debate, assuming LE believes TH did this (and I agree with your assessment that they are not looking anywhere else), then why aren’t they doing more to locate Kyron? Why aren’t they releasing something from their investigation that might help them locate him, or help to prove she did this? The way they have handled their investigation is what first convinced me to look at other possibilities because for some unknown reason, this case is definitely an anomaly, right down to the LEO’s.
concerned citizen says:
July 23, 2013 at 9:32 am
snip>
Haven’t checked in for quite a while but read this today. All I can say to this is that there was some “evidence” that absolutely pointed to Terri but it was not enough for the DA to think they could convict. To this day, the LE that I know still believe they had it right and are frustrated they couldn’t finish the job and bring justice. Could they be wrong? Of course!
@cd, I agree, but am not discounting TRuth’s theory either because I don’t understand where those men are coming from on a lot of other things. My thought was and is that a photo surfaced after Kyron went missing. Now whether that photo was taken before or after, they might not know. That could bring a grown man to tears. JMO, of course.
T. Ruth says:
July 23, 2013 at 11:28 am
IMO
If we have our Police weeping on camera because of some nasty comment about a child made in an email by a wicked stepmother then i have to wonder about the caliber of our stalwart protectors. I don’t think an email would even make me tear up un public let alone a supposed hardened LE veteran.
~~~~~~~~~
hear hear!
(extreme sarcasm warning) more likely they were tearing up because their unarguable excuse for unlimited over time was drying up.
concerned citizen says:
July 23, 2013 at 9:32 am
Haven’t checked in for quite a while but read this today. All I can say to this is that there was some “evidence” that absolutely pointed to Terri but it was not enough for the DA to think they could convict. To this day, the LE that I know still believe they had it right and are frustrated they couldn’t finish the job and bring justice. Could they be wrong? Of course!
~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for this concerned citizen! It’s easy to forget that they must have had some tangible reason for focusing on Terri. Since it has been 3 years with no charges and no apparent break in the case coming up, could you possibly tell us the nature of the evidence your LE friend told you about? I assume you mean something other than hearsay. Since the Sheriff admits that they have no actual evidence of a crime, what could they have found to connect Terri with “unknown”"? Certainly Kyron is missing but he is not with Terri. This case stopped being about finding Kyron long ago. It is now the Restraining Order, the stalled divorce, and Desiree’s civil suit, all prepared with the help of the DA for the purpose of pressuring Terri. If they have any evidence at all, why not enlist the public’s help to expand it instead of suppressing every single detail of this case other than those provided to Kaine for him to disperse through the media, and using the court system to bully an uncharged, un-arested individual.
@cd, you’re probably right. I’d just love to know what was behind those tears, because as you say, it doesn’t happen often with such seasoned LE officers. I think, whatever it was, that moved not one, but two police officers that much, had to be something significant to this case. Whatever it was, IMHO, made them believe there was a possibility that Kyron was deceased.
@Blink. It could be someone in LE–(the FBI family profiler suggested a rule-out?)– Decided it was a possibility the subject of the Dec 911 call, Kaine, might have been injured as part of a mfh plot, which could have later extended to an act against Kyron. It may be RS was not the first informant of same, but this arose as a theory to be ruled out. In that scenario RS would be the “any port in a storm” actor at her door for LE seeking $ for acts against the 2Ks. Thought being she’d just pay him off to keep him quiet–lest he make allegations against her vindictively – quid pro quo seeking money whether he’d done anything ir solicited or not. He was a stand in for their theoretical cut out ftom Terri.
So under that scenario, they have to keep any mfh litigation in the course of the 2 civil cases from proceeding as their are no legs to the RS russ.
I personally do not see how any of the mfh mess comes together from nearly every investigative perspective I could either validate or dream up.
I wonder how everyone would feel if it were to be learned that TMH herself introduced RS to the equation as an answer to the question.. Can you think of anyone who might have a vendetta against you, or you and Kaine, or whatever permutation…
In rackner’s filing, she compares Cook’s texts to RS’s- but does not name him.
Given the fact that the texts she did include were incomplete, manipulated as to sender/receiver and out of order- how can we even be sure RS provided any corroboration to his story in the first place? I absolutely believe the mfh was supposed to be LE’s magnesium for the burning.
I think it may also be fair of me to state I would likely have been in support of the attempt if I saw a shred of evidence that TMH was involved in Ky’s disappearance. At least then, anyway.
B
B
” I told the dispatch who we are in relation to the kyron horman case and she is having someone call me. Give a mark for the FBI.”
I took that as the 911 dispatch was handing the call over to the FBI, because it concerned Kyron’s case, and someone from the FBI would be calling her back. JMO
Do we know WHO made the December 2009 call? Could it not have been James, or Kaine himself? Maybe I just forgot, but I don’t recall that being verified.
TMH.
B
Someone was asking who was the first investigator in charge of Ky’s case. According to this article by WW it was Sgt. Lee Gosson.
http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-12305-the_kyron_files.html
The lead investigator, Sheriff’s Sgt. Lee Gosson, has never even spoken publicly on the case. Despite its low-key style and the fact it’s a relatively small agency, insiders say any suspicion that MCSO could mishandle the case is groundless—it has help from other members of the East County Major Crimes Team, which includes some of the most seasoned detectives in the region. The Multnomah County District Attorney’s Office is also involved in steering the investigation; the person in that office who puts in the most hours on the case is Chief Deputy District Attorney Norm Frink, who likewise has made no public appearances.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/11/27/kyron-horman-missing-civil-suit-against-terri-horman-delayed-and-sealed/#comments
“wpg says:
July 22, 2013 at 8:36 pm”
(regarding
“1. If LE, hypothetically, retrieved emails from the computers sometime in June 2010, …….
2. presented, hypothetically, to KH some of the communications content pertaining to Kyron,”
So we have TMH “emails from the computers”. What computers? Those paid for (in his eyes) under the roof of a professional IT control freak? even a wife dim and self-destructive as Terri would write “motive” emails in electronic devices under his roof or to which he had access (& imo that was any she could use)?
Sorry wpg; I didn’t do/mean that smiley face. Twas supposed to be a simple end-paren )
No light being made of this case or comment. ascerbic at times, Yes. Smiley faces, No.
@TRuth. “The Multnomah County District
Attorney’s Office is also involved in steering
the investigation”
That ADA was Moawad. Would any Portlander reviewing
her previous public trial criticism
be impressed with her as failsafe?
Rose,
IDK, it could be communications were deleted but recovered by LE ITforensics.
I’m just hypothesizing based on DY’s statement, Rose.
Also, Rose, I never had the feeling (and still don’t) KH was really interested back then in what TMH was up to on the computer.
I wonder if LE “shared” the multiple emails between DY and TMH with Kaine. I’m sure he didn’t enjoy reading those!
On Kaine and LE and the DA and the previous DA and what constitututes a FACT according to Judge M then and Kantor now.:
Judge M states at the FAPA renewal last year, 2012…when Bunch requests the Judge to consisder FACTS as he has read the statute for an Oregon FAPA.
“….And I agree with Mr. Bunch’s assertion that the statute requires that the Court have facts. In Subsection 4 of that statute it reads, “A court may renew an order on the the basis of a sworn ex part petition alleging fact supporting the required finding.” It’s a required finding that Mr. Horman reasonably fears further acts of abuse. The facts allege that the police have advised him that they have probable cause that she is responsible for his son’s disappearance, now some two years ago, and that she tried to hire somebody to have him killed. I find those facts would cause a person in Mr. Horman’s position to reasonably fear further acts of abuse….. ”
P. 8 Hearing to renew FAPA, June, 2012
Posted… February…. (vwoolfexplores the northwest.blogsspot.com)
Read the rest if you want, Blink. But WHAT will constitute a defense that Judge Kantor will take NOTE of with regard to the FAPA allegations?
Allegations, if by LE, are considered FACT to Judge M. Judge K. continued the FAPA for even more frivolouss reasons….because Judge M. had. Not because any new facts had come to light to continue to keep a child from her mother, but because the FACT remained that Kaine, irregardless of his comment to Kate Snow,
not only feared for his daughter but for himself.
Do these judges read the news? Do they go thru a process in which they must judge that something is “reasonable”?
I heard tonight that Prosecutors, public prosecters, have immunity. That they can never be sued for court or case presentations. Even if they have been found to have lied.
I will be very interested in how TMH’s lawyers get around this. LE and the DA (leading the investigation) have had access to more than TMH’s emails. They had access to all of the computers and everything else they could take from Dede and TMH’s friends. Perhaps even James’s and the Moulton’s accounts?
They have access to the complete Sexting done by, and steered by, Kaine and LE. They have access to the 911 calls. They have access to the testimonies of EVERY family and every staff member of Skyline. They have access to testimonies volunteered or encouraged….by Rudy, ex spouses, anyone who knows or knew TMH under any circumstances. They have the poly’s of anyone they chose to poly.
What do Houze and Bunch have? To “prove” that the what LE and Kaine are presenting to the Judges…is NOT reasonable?
So far Bunch and Houze have appeared to be playing on the up-and-up. Filing motions, filing objections to LE interfering, holding back. Then pursuing when the TIME is right. When it is OBVIOUS Kaine has not been threatened. When it is OBVIOUS that Kaine and Engels and Judge M. are playing the case as IF the allegations are FACT.
21 Days said the Docket. Oregon law says the hearing must occur within twenty one days.
Filed the 8th, Entered the 9th
Depending on the whether or not they have to go by the file date or when it was entered, the hearing should take place by the week of August 5th.
The date of the divorce/suit moving out of abatement is the previous Thursday.
My question, Blink, and I think on the minds of many. What would be the circumstances by which the FAPA HEARING will have to take a back seat to the other cases? And, if DY decides not to pursue the suit (I’ve NEVER imagined she would,..esp. given her FB taunts) will the DIVORE take precedence?
VW- I will try not to make this post a blog within a blog, but the “public prosecutors” having immunity is completely false. To explain in detail, I would have to reference several supreme court decisions that attempt to delineate the differences between absolute immunity and qualified immunity for prosecutors and I will say they are highly interpretable in different jurisdictions, unfortunately. However, in a nut shell, prosecutors do have qualified immunity:
Wex
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Qualified immunity: an overview
“Qualified immunity balances two important interests—the need to hold public officials accountable when they exercise power irresponsibly and the need to shield officials from harassment, distraction, and liability when they perform their duties reasonably.” Pearson v. Callahan (07-751). Specifically, it protects government officials from lawsuits alleging that they violated plaintiffs’ rights, only allowing suits where officials violated a “clearly established” statutory or constitutional right. When determining whether or not a right was “clearly established,” courts consider whether a hypothetical reasonable official would have known that the defendant’s conduct violated the plaintiff’s rights. Courts conducting this analysis apply the law that was in force at the time of the alleged violation, not the law in effect when the court considers the case.
See kalina v Fletcher:
Held : Section 1983 may create a damages remedy against a prosecutor for making false statements of fact in an affidavit supporting an application for an arrest warrant, since such conduct is not protected by the doctrine of absolute prosecutorial immunity. Pp. 4–13.
In other words- when acting as an advocate as it is sworn to the position, yes, they have qualified immunity, outside of that -no. If they abuse the standards and in effect the office, they are subject to remedy as well as Bar membership sanction.
On the “defense” Bunch will use- he is not contesting the basis of the RO, in effect, he is also challenging Kantor’s finding of no change in circumstances and his assertion that Bunch did not contest previously so I mean to point out there is no “defense” in this proceeding. They are challenging the burden of the plaintiff under the hearsay allegation of a non-party. I am extremely interested in seeing this filing and it’s response because outside of the basis argument, the parties must agree to any other inclusions to be heard.
No change in circumstances where there are no charges filed, pending, or evidence to base them on is ridiculous. The change in circumstances is that KH cannot substantiate his claim to maintain a RO to include complete exclusion of the birth mother.
I do not get this Judge and if this were my case I would motion for recusal in open court if it goes his “status quo” way. No sense in motioning upfront as it will delay the hearing and thus be subject to whatever other legal machinations await the court that turn into pumpkins shortly.
Just to reitterate- this is not going to be addressing anything outside of the basis for the RO in the first place. “She is under investigation for violent crimes” would never hold in any court I am familiar with if LE will not authenticate.
B
Again, I am not understanding how given the situation, the CFS is not involved.
These are beautiful pictures of a black crake chick just born at the Oregon Zoo.
http://www.kgw.com/news/slideshows/Photos-Black-crake-chicks-born-at-Ore-Zoo-216626171.html?gallery=y&c=y
The photographer is Michael Durham. Brother of DAD. Just jogs the memory.
Plenty of cases have been won or at least tried without a body….in my opinion if they truly had anything on TMH, she would have been brought to charges by now. They have their hunches, they have theories, but nothing they have can substantiate anything other than gut feelings based on character assumptions, mostly based upon TMH’s behavior and reactions to this case with the help (or bad advice from Dede) to go by. I guess I don’t give TMH enough credit, wisdom-wise, to think she pulled off the “perfect crime.” I love Kyron, his family, and his classmates more than I should because of Blink and this site…and I, like all of you here, want to see justice done and Kyron brought home!!! If you can’t force this one to fit into the puzzle, look for another piece all together….TMH is a bright woman, well educated, and motherly…I believe she loved Kyron as her own. Bad set of coincidences and Desiree’s strong LE connection through Tony set this course too early. TMH is innocent of Kyron’s disappearance…she is NOT perfect, but IMO she is also not guilty! Next???
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
cd says:
July 23, 2013 at 3:31 pm
Maybe someone took a shot at Kaine and missed? That would account for a call to 911 even though there was no lasting injury.
————–
It could be that a neighbor of the Hormans accidentally discharged a firearm December 2009 either deliberately or accidentally and the bullet passed through the Horman property causing Terri to call 911. Kaine may have believed that was the case up until RS started talking about an MFH. I noticed that the RO says “my Wife had attempted to hire our landscaper to kill me for money”, not “my wife hired our landscaper to kill me”.
IMO
Respectfully guys- this is not plausible, nor would it satisfy the burden to make an allegation in the first place. To my knowledge, there is no incident report attached to the december 911 call by LE. If there was some errant shot requiring a 911 call, there would be.
B
I think LE targeted TMH because there was no-one else to target.
Kaine, DY, and TY probably had airtight alibis.
The school didn’t want to believe a random abductor was at work, and Skyline parents wanted to believe that their own children were not at risk.
Voila. TMH had to have been behind it.
The evidence against TMH includes:
1) MFH. As far as we know it is a he-said-she-said thing and nothing is going to come of it. It should be noted that the alleged hit man did not come forth on his own.
2) Changing stories the day of the disappearance. Our source of this information is Kaine talking to a reporter and the inconsistencies are never described.
3) Disposable phones. Must obviously mean something nefarious, but no evidence tying phones to the disappearance or any crime.
4) Failed lie detector test. Evidence is that TMH “told the family” that she failed, so obviously “the family” is the source. We don’t know what she failed, and I, like others, consider polygraphy to be junk science.
5) Sexts. Really tells us nothing, but produced a visceral “TMH is a slut” reaction to many people. I suspect this was a part of the TMH-KH relationship and means almost nothing.
6) Hateful e-mails. Source is DY. Are these really “hateful”? or a stressed out parent/guardian venting? Dy has an intense emotional involvement in the case, and may not read the e-mails the same as an uninvolved observer.
I suspect that TMH is the “de facto suspect” solely because they have no other POI’s.
I don’t know if TMH is innocent, but there doesn’t seem to be much evidence to convict her.
This is what I have been saying since day one- do we really believe if TMH were involved directly or indirectly that this woman is capable of outsmarting 9 law enforcement agencies in 2 separate and distinct alleged criminal incidents? Hiring someone or engaging them in some way so as to never be tied to them, and never be able to ID them when he appeared in full view of S E V E R A L witnesses.
I would only add that I don’t think the failure of the poly as told to HER has any merit, but I do give weight to the fact that Rackner used it ( although she knew better) in her filing and does specify that intel came from LE. Now, don’t let that fool you, because LE is under no obligation to disclose that, nor are they under any obligation to be truthful about it so who knows. I am strictly weighing the fact that Rackner is not going to risk her law credentials on something so inflammatory AND false.
B
Hard as it is to believe, I guess we can’t take this possibility off the table either.
RITZVILLE, Wash. (AP) – Forty-eight-year-old Othello teacher Lisa Davis is accused of molesting a 10-year-old boy.
She resigned last month and was charged last week in Adams County Superior Court with child molestation.
The website iFiber One News reports Davis has been a teacher for 14 years and taught at Scootney Elementary School.
Police said the fifth-grader was molested in a classroom and at home belonging to a friend of Davis.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Central-Wash-teacher-48-accused-of-molesting-10-year-old-student-216752031.html
I was thinking about something the other day. Does anyone else find it more than odd that there are no YouTube uploads of any of the videos taken by proud parents and teachers of the projects shown at Skyline Science Fair, taken on June 4, 2010? I have looked around and haven’t found any, I mean zero photos of the science fair other than what the media presented and Terri Horman put on her FB.
Did LE ask all of the people that were there that day, to not upload any pictures of the science fair? If so, why would they do that, especially if they think Terri Horman is responsible for Ky’s disappearance? What is everyone afraid of showing? I recall Kaine saying something about there having to be more pictures out there. Is it possible somehow, something or someone WAS seen at that science fair that LE does not want known?
I find it odd as heck, when I can see photos of all sorts of other science fairs around the nation, but not this one.
I know that attendees were asked to submit any images or video- so I am guessing they felt it might be investigatory in nature so did not post. I am more surprised that I did not hear of more parents demanding answers about a 3 year old case that involved the school their kids attend.
B