Jodi Arias Travis Alexander Murder Trial Day 8: Sex, Lies and Duct Tape Causing Jury Doubt
Phoenix, AZ- As the beginning of the second full week of testimony in the State of Arizona v Jodi Arias unfolds we learn some of the most damning evidence against Arias. We also learned that there are clearly holes in the prosecution’s case. Not referring to the holes on visual display last week-in HD, unfortunately.
The very intimate and anatomical chronology of the afternoon of June 4th 2008 leading to the brutal and merciless murder of Travis Victor Alexander included the very carnal and the very barbaric.
A few frames of images deleted from Travis’s camera and a few minutes of time stamped consternation and Alexander ends up stuffed in his own shower.
Kill or be killed was the impetus for this tragedy Arias’s defense promises us in their opening curtsy.
There can be no doubt that Jodi Arias was present the day of the murder, and by her own admission she killed Travis in self defense. By my rough calculations, that would mean under one stab wound per minute plus a gunshot and near decapitation. Travis was 5’9” tall and 189 lbs after nearly total blood loss.
Dr. Kevin Horn Is No Dr. G
The fact that Dr. Horn, forensic pathologist for Maricopa County looks freakishly like Robe Lowe with facial hair aside- he now says that Travis Alexander could not have been shot first. According To Detective Esteban Flores, lead investigator in the case, he was told differently by Horn in telephonic conversations in August 2009. Horn denies he ever said this and Flores gets hung out to dry. A rinse and repeat will not help the prosecution. Horn went on to say that since the bullet passed through the front lobe of Alexander’s brain that he would likely have been rendered unconscious and it may have occurred after his death.
There is no medical evidence to substantiate this. There is no physical evidence to corroborate this, and in fact, it WILL be argued that evidence contradicts this opinion. Dr. Horn could produce no findings of the projectile pathway outside of its final location in the left maxilla. This was definitely not a close contact wound and it produced no star-shaped entry, soot or stippling. The casing of a .25 caliber bullet was found on the floor of the bathroom in a pool of blood believed to be deposited there prior.
Is this opinion outside the scope of submitted evidence AND theory? Horn was an effective witness as to autopsy and wound identification. Travis Alexander fought for his life at least for a few seconds and the gaping wounds to his hands indicate he grabbed for the knife at some point. I found it particularly interesting that he was not asked to speculate on what type of sharp blade might fit the incised wound approximations. Travis Alexander was stabbed 29 times, shot and his throat was slashed.
Editor’s Note: Jodi Arias is left-handed as is Travis Alexander. There is much in the way of fodder to feed incident reconstruction in his report as well as the blood spatter and pooling evidence neither Horn nor Perry were ever asked about.
Esteban Flores Does His Own Stunts
Detective Flores played his own stunt man in this case. His phone interviews and interrogations of Jodi Arias are impressive.
He brought his A game. A for Alexander as he would tell you himself.
His case interrogation skills in this case might ultimately be what convicts this woman and his lessons in patience and diligence should be topics in investigative training for homicide detectives everywhere.
So why the stunt man status?
Because he came into the case on 2 wheels based on the Medical Examiner testimony which I happen to believe accurately shaped the detectives testimony in both the Conus hearing and this trial. Defense counsel Nurmi as well as Prosecutor Martinez eviscerated Flores on his previous testimony regarding Travis’ wound sequencing and Flores was accused of perjuring himself in a motion that is still before the court. Ouch.
Rarely do you see a detective take a cross examination and subsequent motion for dismissal containing the words “perjury” on such a sturdy chin. He took one for the team and he took one for Alexander and the Mesa Police Department is lucky to have him.
And NO, his name does not sound like all other Hispanic names (how offensive was that?) Unfortunately after his testimony this afternoon the shine is off the penny a bit. The jurors submitted questions to Flores while on the stand today through Judge Stephens and it was clear by the tone of them this jury is not eating what the prosecution is serving.
Flores was dejected and sullen when answering the juror questions. He knew.
Juan In The Box
Prosecutor Juan Martinez has an excellent tailor. He is excitable and apparently not a fan of cross examination of state witnesses. By re-direct he is out of the box the defense has been winding up and pop goes the weasel is in the form of evidence he tossed on the floor.
This actually happened.
In his Ad hoc demonstrative aid or improper display as alleged by defense attorney Jennifer Wilmott, Martinez tosses the camera on the floor to the collective spectator reaction “ What the snap??”
Pun intended. Juan Martinez is an effective prosecutor who knows his case well. Where the problem comes in is that his own witnesses are not sure what he is asking them, and he is not putting the issues he already knows will be in contention with the defense out there first. If that scene does not find its way to an auto tune I will be surprised.
Editors Note: Arias is lefty. The button that broke during examination by Detective Melendez and if it had not been already, definitely by Martinez, is located on the right of the camera. It is more likely Arias changed the mode to auto on the camera and that began the successive picture taking. Was it on the strap so she was then hands free? The shower door opens to the right and the person snapping the images at the time Alexander first becomes wounded is very close to his level. Point is- there is much in the way of probative value in the operation of this camera and a simultaneous attack or altercation. Arias receives a cut to her left finger at some point.
A well- intentioned but intransigent message to Mr. Martinez: Pre-emptive is the new appellate repellent.
With daily motions for dismissal and mistrial alleging prosecutorial misconduct and the prosecutor firing a piece of material evidence into the podium- is the writing on the wall on this one?
Martinez is wearing a pace pattern into the carpet in front of the prosecution’s table and the defense is wearing matching hues daily.
To borrow the words of Sweet Brown, “Ain’t Nobody Got Time For Dat”.
Taking a page out of the book of The State of Florida V Casey M Anthony would benefit Mr. Martinez immensely . That said, Mr. Martinez has been known to change it up with a lesser included in that “other” Mormon murder.
Hello…… N U R M I
Say it like Seinfeld would. Kirk Nurmi , while not big on the fashion forward movement, belies his posture and gets the no slouch designation in this trial.
Nurmi misses nothing and his assessment of The Honorable Sherri K Stephens and her courtroom etiquette are spot on.
Nurmi is artful and deliberate. If there is a credible defense to this case he is establishing the predicate for it or a weighty appeal. He is ambi-lawyerous. One senses he sees the holes and knows it is also his job to backfill. In a trial involving such a heinous murder and downright chilling images, the fact that he refuses to tuck the tail of his shirt in the back gives us a necessary chuckle when he is at the podium.
Jennifer Wilmott, the public defender’s representative is intentionally disarming to witnesses for the first few minutes but gave herself away when she corrected Dr. Horn by reminding him of a puncture to the Vena Cava sustained by Alexander. She enunciated it perfectly and with feeling- as if the boots had not given her away earlier.
She leaves her Coach satchel in plain view next to the bailiff door all day. She knows the drill.
Death On a Reel
There was video of the sexual encounter between Travis and Jodi on June 4, 2008. It was deleted according to her and not recoverable per Detective Flores.
What was recovered in both the flash drive and un-allocated space on the SD card of Travis’s camera were like a Kubrick draft. Lust, contentment, fear, crescendo, gore. Did I just see that?
It is all there to view as if one is having some sort of synapse misfire that only allows brief images.
There is a clear and distinct mutual trust between Arias and Alexander before 2 PM on June 4, 2008.
What changed and for whom?
Explicit and sexually graphic images were displayed in open court. Noteworthy items would include that Ms. Arias has had breast augmentation and a very recent pseudo-invasive waxing. Mr. Alexander is apparently not fond of body hair himself. It appeared Travis was less comfortable posing nude for Arias then she for him.
Nothing Says Bonding Like Duct Tape
Travis Alexander clearly has duct tape around his right arm in the explicit pics. Although the shower images are approximately 4 hours later- the marks from it are fresh. Not that the medical examiner nor the prosecution has bothered to reference it or it’s possible connection to the events.
The duct tape found on the tile floor , evidence marker #40 may just be the clue from the glue that provides motive in this case .
Outside Marriage, Sex’s Emotional Bond:
However, outside of marriage, this bond still occurs. The emotional bond is a part of sex, it’s always present, whether we like it or not. But, this extremely tight emotional bond is not such a good thing outside of marriage. Here’s why…(DO NOT remove the duct tape until you describe the break-up of the relationship)
Relationship Examples:
So let’s say that I’m 16 years old (use yourself as an example, not the volunteer) and I choose to ignore God’s plan for sex and chastity and decide that since my boyfriend and I are in love and we’re a serious couple, we’ll have sex. (rub the duct tape in even more, as you continue to talk). Things are going real well, are hearts are real close – like this duct tape here – and then…he starts to get on my nerves, so, we break up. (quickly tear off the tape)
I am not one to believe in coincidence and this case is no different. When Casey Anthony was leading OCSO detectives to her imaginary office at Universal, Arias we being booked. Anthony was arrested the next day. It does make the case for simultaneous bi-coastal mind control. Watching and listening to Arias spin her detailed faux-fession was surreal in comparison.
White Knit-Rental Guy
Raphael Columbo took the only opportunity to ever where a bulky knit in Arizona. During direct examination by Martinez we learned that Arias may have been with a gentleman while renting the vehicle. Columbo also testified the floor mats to the new-ish vehicle were missing when Arias returned it late and that he personally cleaned what he thought was kool-aid stains from the passenger and rear seats.
Yes- he legitimately stated he saw and cleaned kool aid stains in the rental vehicle used by a woman accused of stabbing and shooting a man and neither the prosecutor nor the defense attorney asked him what kind of kool-aid stains they were. Lime? Fruit Punch? Grape? Would seem germane to the discussion, no?
Martinez also neglected to ask him about the notation of a heavy smoke smell.
Arias does not smoke. But she did buy kerosene on June 3rd at Walmart. She dyed her hair brown sometime between the evening of June 2nd and the morning of June 3rd.
Me thinks Mr. Columbo is going have another chance to don that turtleneck again before this trial is over.
Following the excuse of the jury this afternoon Nurmi raised the issue yet again, of possible Brady violations in the case by Martinez for not producing the contact information for the woman who was allegedly dating Alexander and received a John Doe email from Arias. It is believed Julie Andrews was aware of at least the allegation that Arias followed the couple on a date and subsequently slashed his tires. Andrews was not on the list of state witnesses.
The State of Arizona V Jodi Arias continues tomorrow.
Jacqueline Beaufort, contributing editor
Related Posts
Related Posts:
254 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
Cadilac
@I hope not or we are in for an aquitall or hung jury at the very least.
Ive been reading many blogs on thease tragic events.
An people both of Mormon faith an those familiar with Mormons an there mindset.
Are saying a lot of Mormons blame Travis more than J A .
They think that as he converted her to the faith.
Wich is one of the main tennants of Mormonisim to save souls from
eternal damnation.
Because they are the chosen ones./
They have been sending missionarys since day dot of the creation of the L D S
By Joseph Smith.
Pre Marotal sex is forbiden though peodophollia was tolerated though no longer by the Main Stream Temple
Poligimy was also tolerated indeed encouraged as the norm
Although that now is allegedlly fromned on by the Elders
How ever many splinter grouups of orthadox Mormons
Still marrt children an have many wifes.
So i Sicerly hope ther are no Mormons on the jury or she may just walk.
Lara Martinez says:
January 18, 2013 at 2:45 pm
Blink: Why do you think the gunshot to the head was the first attack? Dr. Rob Lowe (lol) stated that Travis would have been incapacitated/unconscious due to shock to the brain. Do you think Jodi shot him first, then stabbed him in the shower while he was unconscious? Maybe the pain of the stabbings would jolt him awake.
The evidence of the struggle does seem to suggest the gun was first. If Jodi started the stabbing first I just don’t understand how Travis did not physically overpower her. He was grabbing at the knife–why didn’t he just hit/kick/punch Jodi to stop the attack. It seems he was rendered helpless from the gunshot, which the ME said would have damaged his frontal lobe
The gun shot couldnt have been the first weapon used.
It had to be the knife blitzed him in showe caused him to slump down
Reatreating from the swipeing blade.
The reason the gunshot to cheek could not have been first injury is simple.
Take a look at the crime scene evidence.
The shell caseing from the 25 was found lieing on top of a pool of blood.
Easily visable ie not covered in blood but on top.
This proves the pool of blood wich was substantial was already there when the caseing ejected on to it.
Thus proveing the gun shot could not have happened first.
Only person saying that is ja because she thinks thats more humane.
But she didnt have humane on her agenda that night.
ecossie, respectfully- your interpretation is just not forensically supported. A casing on top of dried blood where there are 29 stab wounds and a slit throat is not evidence of anything other than blood from a source was deposited before the casing ends up there. Suppose she says he shot at her first and missed? What we think and what can be substantiated are commonly two different things.
B
Who is this BFF who wanted to have sex with Jodi you keep referencing? I think you are mistaken.
Abe Abdelhadi alleged on Pinsky’s HLN show he was introduced to Arias by a friend they had
He said, “…we got into each other`s cars. She told me she liked my energy, that kind of thing… she kind of came off a little flighty. But regardless, she was cute.”
Abdelhadi continued, saying the two exchanged phone numbers and eventually when they saw each other at business events, they would sit next to each other and go out to lunch
“And then we actually had a dinner date… we finally went out… December of 2006… We went to dinner in Pasadena. We walked around. We went to Barnes & Noble. We ended up in the spiritual books section, philosophy section. She asked me about my religious background… She told me she was dabbling in Mormonism,” he said.
He claimed the two did not have sex, but said he “made a little reach to find out… if she was wearing thong panties or not.”
Abdelhadi said a few days later she called him saying she felt guilty they had gone out because she was getting back together with her ex-boyfriend–presumably referring to Alexander.
Abdelhadi said he stayed in contact with her and then eventually heard about Alexander’s death.
When asked if he initially thought Arias had anything to do with the killing, he said, “Absolutely…There`s no way she didn`t do it. It was premeditated…”
(((((I heard him say all this plus more on Dr. Drew, who was interviewing him…..he went on to say his interest in her was to get sex, and to say , when asked that he thought she should get the death penalty))) To me this sounds like sour grapes and he should be investigated….(besides he is just creepy!) He also knew Travis, and worked for same company and went to Cancun.
You and I will agree that Abe is is a skeeve. I normally do not say things like that, but after minor research, a man his age hanging on young ladies, and some half naked- no credible professional would want to give that perception. I don’t see any correlation to the instant matter however.
B
I do agree with you that it set her off. I am not sure I understand your position on this case? ((((says B))))
I do not have a preconceived idea about any of this case. I can see so many possibilities that seem to have been overlooked. I do feel fairly sure Jodi did not act alone. I think it is possible she was drugged and saw what was happening but was not sure what was real and not real…..also could be same result if she had psychotic breakdown.
Mainly, I get very concerned when I see large groups of people zeroing in to pick on one person, guilty or not, ill or not……I guess i automatically go for the underdog, untill oroven wrong, and IMO I have not been proven wrong until everyone else is accounted for……lots of people have been in jail for years only to be found innocent by DNA later……we need to be careful. We are talking about someone’s life here.
TY Blink, re: the bogus letters.
John, lots of people in jail are innocent. Jodi sdmitted to killing Travis. So, she belongs in jail, according to her she is not innocent.
Some are thinking that the smoke smell in the rental car came from cigarrettes. I think that the person that checks the cars on return would have known that smell and would have marked it on the return condition report.
I am concerned that she used the rental car to transport her bloody clothing along with the gun and knife to an unknown place and used the kerosene to set them on fire. If the door were open on the vehicle, that odor would be in the car if the wind were blowing the smoke towards it.
I don’t know if Jodi knew anything about cleaning clothing with napatha. Commercial cleaning fluid is basically napatha with some additional chemicals added. Kerosene has the same color as napatha as does gasoline. The color we see in retail gasoline except for American Oil water white is caused by adding color. She may have tried to clean with the kerosene and been unsuccessful and decided to burn everything.
Just thinking possibilities.
John
I know that you are trying to expand possibilities in this case. IMO if Travis were murdered by someone other than Jodie, they would have killed her too. Why leave a witness?
Thank you Blink and Eloise for the finger answer.
Thank you Ragdoll for the mormon link. I had no knowledge about their beliefs.
Why was the prosecution so gung ho about the shooting happening last?
And why was the defense so gung ho about the shooting happening first?
TGf- since you brought up the small caliber bullet (on the other thread)
My memory has been nagging at me
I could almost picture what you had described
it seemed so vivid
then i remembered
See here
clip of regarding Henry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co2dpNsHMKo
Then i decided to do some research
All one need to do is type the right keys words into google and countless cases will pop up of people being shot in the frontal lobe of the brain with a small caliber gun and not only remaining conscious but carrying out conversations etc.
http://discovermagazine.com/1996/oct/abullettothemind897
and
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/story?id=7385084&page=1
“Just as in the case of gunshot wounds of the heart or major blood vessels, individuals can perform tasks or even survive gunshot wounds of the brain, especially if the injury involves only the frontal lobes. Numerous individuals have survived perforating gunshot wounds of the frontal lobes though there may be associated personality changes and/or blindness. In documented cases of suicide, individuals have fired a bullet through the frontal lobes, to be followed by a second, fatal gunshot wound, of the basal ganglia”
Graphic warning-
http://www.bevfitchett.com/gunshot-wounds/physical-activity-following-gunshot-wounds.html
Further snipped
In one case, an elderly individual shot himself in the temple with a .32-caliber revolver. The bullet perforated both cerebral hemispheres injuring the tips of the caudate lobes. Following this, he was conscious for at least two hours during which time he spoke to his wife, a visiting nurse, and EMS personnel.
—end snip
The weird thing is that it seems when ones brain is injured in the right hemisphere it can:
snipped
result in hemineglect, in which one
pays no attention to stimuli coming in from the left side of the body.
In anosognosia, which Damasio discusses in Descartes’ Error, an
individual cannot recognize certain parts of their body as being their
own. “Anosognosia, as the condition is known, is one of the most
eccentric neuropsychological presentations one is likely to encounter.
The word�which derives from the greek nosos, ‘disease,’ and gnosis,
‘knowledge’–denotes the inability to acknowledge disease in oneself.”
Damasio writes: “No less dramatic than the oblivion that anosognosic
patients have regarding their sick limbs is the lack of concern they
show for their overall situation, the lack of emotion they exhibit, the
lack of feeling they report when questioned about it. … Patients with
the type of anosognosia described above have damage in the right
hemisphere
http://tinyurl.com/a4hbqxf
—
end snip
If the defense does its job they can make a case that Travis was unaware of his injuries due to the gunshot wound to the right frontal lobe…
and if the jury can buy that she first shot him in “self defense” from the gun she had to have stolen and had to have it readily available out loaded-and be able to point and shoot it etc then there is a way they can discount the premeditation and cruelty too
if travis was shot in the head and didnt realize it then it can be argued that the bullet acted as a lobotomy of sorts and the right hemisphere injury effected his speech his listening skills his ability to reason- his “mood” his personality and he became fixated on harming Jodi-
even though she wanted to stop harming him at that point she couldnt
he wasnt reacting to the “stimuli” … she had no choice but to kill him because nothing was stopping him.
—
Do i believe it no- but someone wanting to believe it may…
AJMO
Peace
You prove the point I am stuck on- if the defense can produce an expert in this regard- it severely damages an already weak case to substantiate these charges.
B
B..says…. I don’t see any correlation to the instant matter however.
B
IMO his own remarks are suspicious. “I knew she did it, and it was premeditated, and she should get the death penalty” WTH? because she did not let him have sex, she should die? How does he know any of this???? was he there???
ATG says…John
I know that you are trying to expand possibilities in this case. IMO if Travis were murdered by someone other than Jodie, they would have killed her too. Why leave a witness?
You would leave a witness to take the fall, to take the blame, to die for the murder so that you could have a fun life, inherit money, become the king of the mountain (like T. was) and…..if you were really wierd, you could then watch her squirm, try to get out of it, become confused, have mental breakdown…..witness the looks of glee on some of the friends faces when they talk about J. (witness the look of (what I can only call revenge) on Abe when he says she should get “the death penalty” (because she wanted to have sex with T., and not him) Need to hear more? I could go on and on…..I have questions about…did someone drug her, or both of them? OR was she Jodi, on some kind of legal drug which can cause one to go absodoodolutely bonkers and kill another (this scene could support that theory) OT…ATG, I have read your comments for a long time, and see you to be a fair person, non judgemental, and a seeker after the truth (I do not always agree with your antiquated conclusions, but do respect your right to your opinions)this is why I will tell you this story….I have a friend (reg. N) who was put on Zoloft for depression, and very shortly thereafter she had to lock herself in her room and throw key out to avoid killing her own beloved children….she called her friends who came and rescued her. (now, I do not know if J. was on any such meds, but would not be at all surprised to find out she was.) Jodi former “sister in law” speakes very very highly of her, and knew her very well…said she was kind, loving, thoughtful, treated her nephew wonderfully, AND had a twinkle in her eye….this was 2006…..what happened to Jodi???????? IMO, Travis happened to Jodi….(Jodi has been described the same way any of us would describe our beautiful daughters) What would happen if our own beloved ones suddenly had a break from reality (for whatever reason) would we like it if everyone demonized them and called them wicked and evil etc? And no, I am not a mormon either, and nothing has happened to my daughter….this is not personal….I can just see all sorts of possibilities here, and need to be fair to all concerned.
@ ragdoll……you call yourself non judgemental, well ok, then, consider this…..I recently had lunch with some mormon ladies who described their beliefs to me. They believe everything you do, with regards to being a born again Christian and follower of Jesus.
They are intelligent, kind, and loving, and I am very sure if you needed anything at all, they would be there for you in an instant. (I am not mormon, but have studied all religions) BTW they do not condemn other religions the way you condemn them. Think about it.
The one problem Jodi might have with the lobotomy like defense symptom situation is the fact that Jodi said after Travis was shot she tried to get him to leave with her and he said to her he couldn’t because he couldn’t move his legs. Granted, this was when there was the two intruder theory was still in play, but it makes me wonder as the jurors were shown a picture of him very briefly of him on his side on the bathroom floor of his legs. He didn’t look too mobile at that point.
With the gunshot occurring last- it is adding to the over kill, thus the cruelty charge. The ME indicated there was no bleeding noted in the frontal lobe along the trajectory path the bullet took, thus why he felt it was a post mortem shot. So, yes a battle of the ME’s to come. But, I cant see how they could prove the above condition, as it is subjective and Travis wasn’t here to be assessed for it. Very interesting though.
agreed, but the lack of available evidence of hemorrage can also be the stage of decomp the brain was in- the most he could have said is that it was possible he had a level of incapacitation. In 5 minutes of research one can identify a slew of cases with similar alleged injury with very various outcomes.
That said, there is no doubt in my mind for me that Travis was compromised in his ability to defend himself- I just don’t believe we know to what extent, and my concern is always going to be asking jurors to fill in blanks.
B
When they come back to court, if the judge agrees that the state didn’t prove premeditation, are just those charges dismissed, but the murder case continues, or is the whole case dismissed?
I believe you are referring to the request for directed verdict Joan T.
The judge can legally direct the jury to find a verdict in either charge, but I highly doubt she will do that because not only is the directed verdict rare, but if her finding is that the premeditation charge has not been met by the prosecution- I can tell you there has been no evidence submission for felony murder whatsoever.
I understood the prosecutor tactic in not doing so- almost compelling the jury to find for the capital charge, but that has been the problem with this case’s presentation with this jury so far.
Martinez has treated them like pawns, not triers of facts.
I do think Kurmi had to make the motion to preserve for appeal- I think right now the better shot is at the mistrial.
Welcome to the high profile case Arizona- grasp the CSI society concept already- phew.
B
With all the talk about how a gunshot can affect the brain, I hope there is no implication that Travis was any threat to Jodi. I seriously doubt any of the case histories involve someone being shot whose throat had been slit from ear to ear and had been brutally stabbed 29 times first. Even if you want to say, for the sake of argument, that the gunshot came first, you will never convince me that a man who was shot in the head is someone who couldn’t be escaped from, even if he didn’t immediately die from the wound. She could have easily incapacitated him then, without the massive overkill, run outside and summoned authorities. But of course, that did not happen.
I agree that the argument about him being shot first and yet still being a threat with which lethal force was necessary for defense is ridiculous when we consider what comes next.
Once again, I say the problem becomes this girl is overcharged as to what the prosecutor can PROVE.
Does everyone realize that Arias was examined for a potential mental defense?
B
There is one pic of JA that haunts me. The naked shot of her (with hair in pigtails) lying on the bed. She looks so vulnerable. WTH happened subsequently to provoke such a brutal attack? I’m almost afraid to hear the defense side particularly with regard to TA’s treatment of her. Was she a possession to be played with then discarded at a whim. Are we going to find out he treated his “dirty little secret” like a street whore and was using her for sex only. Did he push her buttons one too many times until she flipped into a rage and over-killed him? My impression: He was messing with a vulnerable, mentally disturbed person. What was he thinking as he left their bed to go shower off? We know what she was thinking.
I think the prosecution has their hands full regarding the charges against her.
http://www.examiner.com/slideshow/nude-photos-of-jodi-arias-and-travis-alexander-believed-to-have-been-taken-the-same-day-he-was-murdered
Glad El was just here because I wanted to comment on the gsw. If Travis was sitting up, half-alive, with a major cardiac/thoracic bleed, he may have bled out enough for the left-handed, mandible-shot to not bleed as much as it would have normally. Also have another q for el and the rest of you, in a second.
For the ME to guess and say that a bone might have been nicked is completely irresponsible. I hope his peers jump on him hard.
Was the shower drainage system removed? I know the ME can tell approximately how much blood was lost, despite the putrefaction.
I have understood that forensic scientists can tell in which direction a knife slash was performed, especially if the knife is dull or serrated, due to its smaller beginning point and larger ending point, as well as the pull of tissue in one direction or other. I don’t know if this is accurate, especially as Blink says it’s not possible to tell.
So grisly and heinous. Travis put up a helluva fight.
When the only immediately fatal wound as per the ME is the perf to the vena cava- it boggles my mind.
The drain would not have mattered by the end of 5 days- at least for that purpose Word- the shower ran for some time, as did the washer, and there was 2 other people living there using water and toilets.
I have never read the actual autopsy, I would be interested in signficantly more information than what was discussed. I have a feeling there were some findings that were avoided but would lend itself to support the gsw was first.
B
I think she shot him first and was going to shoot him again but the gun jammed or malfunctioned in some other way so she had to stab him since the first shot didn’t kill him. There is usually some truth in all lies and remember she said the gun jammed in her ninja story.
I also think he was fighting back and was trying to get away from her and that’s why they went from the bathroom to the bedroom and why she had to drag him.
I have so many thoughts/questions about this case, if I listed them all Blink would ask me not to post here anymore. The only thing I know for sure is she did it and it was not self defense.
Blink, why didn’t the prosecution show her interview with 48 hrs. and why didn’t they go more into detail as to what she said happened once she admitted she killed Travis. I guess the defense will lay out the details of what she says happened but I would like to know what she told the detectives once she confessed. There were so many things that showed her obsession with Travis that they failed to bring out. That interview with 48 hrs. was unbelievable.
I agree with this scenario in terms of the gun jamming. That caliber and age of that weapon is notorious for that, and especially if someone is unfamiliar with it’s operation.
They did not show the 48 hours tape because throughout the interview Flores is adamant that Travis was shot first. He also states there is no evidence Jodi was involved in the tire slashing incident.
Again, another reason why I have no idea what made them feel they needed to adapt the shot last theory.
B
John says:
January 19, 2013 at 9:28 am
I happen to have friends who are Mormon and I love them dearly.
That being said, you completely misinterpreted my message. I was NOT judging the faith or the people who follow it. I was COMPARING the differences between the 2. I introduced blood atonement, since the subject of prayer, forgiveness and repentence was broad up. Was Jodi, in her twisted mind, helping Travis atone for his sins?
I accept your apology for the needless attack and not asking me to clarify my comment, if you weren’t clear about the message I was attempting to getting across. I thought I had done so, but it appears I fell short. It’s not the first time and it won’t be the last, but at least ask before getting into someone bidnizz without just cause. You REALLY missed the mark on this one.
broad = brought
@ Löni says:
January 19, 2013 at 1:12 am
Hello dear friendy!
I NEED to clarify that this practice of blood atonement, may not be a modern day practice. I don’t profess to know much about the religion. I found it to an interesting, possibly an historically ritual, which I can’t believe is part of their faith, today. However, there are still in LDS who still believe they’re entitled to more than one wife, underage and minor girl’s for that matter. Those are extremists and not a true representation of the Mormon faith, today. Think Donny and Marie Osmond.
@Blink
(snipped) “Does everyone realize that Arias was examined for a potential mental defense?
B”
——————————————————————————–
I did not know. Who did the examination and what were the findings?
Dunno, that is sealed- I just read the minutes ions ago.
B
@ John i did engage myseld for someone in death row because i was concerned about this person eventual innocence. I am against DP.
JA is guilty of this crime. She is not innocent. She belongs in Jail. I would not want this person around my children sister brother parents or friends. I would not want such a person walking the street free. She killed TA in a brutal heinous and mostly premedidated way because of rage, disappointment, wounded pride and jealousy. She may have felt be used by this man.
But it is what it is.You didn ‘t kill this man, i didn’t kill this man, JA killed this man.
Was she drugged because she flipped out and overkilled him? Not enough then as she tried to cover her tracks putting his bedding into the washer for example or to drive 700 miles to her next date.
Did she this alone? I think the csi would have found dna, hairs of someone else as they did the findings for JA.
Are we picking on someone because we analyse a case? No
Are we sending JA to the chair? No.The juror does it or not.
It is our moral duty to not look away? Yes, it is and also when it is hard but we have to learn and prevent if possible that this does not happen again
There are times when a post hits my bullseye in particular- Loni’s did tonight.
For an individual whose native language is not English- how eloquent is her post?
B
If the gun jamed after one round, it could be that the ammo had been in place for a very long time. Small cal. automatics are all subject to jams. One of the things that is taught in gun classes is how to clear a jam.
I really don’t think Jodi knew very much about guns and just was lucky that her first and only shot hit Travis in the forehead. If he had been stabbed prior to the gun shot, it may not have totally prevented him from doing some self defense. The cuts on his hands would indicate this.
Then it comes down to how did the altercation take place and who made the first move. Since Travis cannot talk for himself, it is up to the state to be the spokesperson for him. Are they doing a good job? Some of us are having doubts.
Mom3.0
Your description of the man who shot himself in the temple with the .32 cal. gun and didn’t loose the ability to speak is very believeable. That bullet is very small, only slightly larger than the .25 cal. used in this crime. That is why one of my carry guns is a .32 S&W long. It is three times the size of the normal .32.
I posted on the Sandy Hook thread last evening about the demonstration shooting by the competitive shooter and carried by the Sean Hannity show. This was a female near the size of Blink and she was shooting an AR-15, a 30-06 semi-auto, a S&W semi-auto 12 Ga. shotgun, a 9mm automatic pistol and a model 1911 .45 cal. automatic. All the shots were into a single target with tags about the gun they were fired with. It would be an eye opener to those who had little knowledge of what various bullets and shells actually can do.
Sometimes these shows are carried on the Fox internet site. By the way, the demonstration shooter spoke about her five year old nephew being taught to shoot with the AR-15 because the stock could be shortened to fit his size.
As an aside- I shot a stationary AR-15 recently (on a bipod). I think a 5 year old shooting that weapon is outrageous.
B
The reason I thought that the gunshot wound may have been first is that a gun in her hand would make JA a lot more of an initial threat, imo. The fact that the shot came from above his brow– she could have made him kneel before her, especially since it all seems to tie back into her being rejected, obsessed, and wanting control.
Does anyone know if the knives at Travis’s house were accounted for, or if an attempt to do so was at least made? Were any obviously missing? What about knives from Jodi’s house or her grandparents’ house?
None missing, all were examined, no finding. They do not know what sharp instrument was used.
To my knowledge, there was no effort to compare what was found to Travis’s wounds.
B
my red pony- thanks for that review of that witness, I finally got to watch it and it made much more sense in full vs the clip I saw, whew!
Ragdoll-That is some very compelling material you found there. Makes you wonder if Jodi had studied any of that? Whether this was the fuel to her fire I have no idea- absolutely none. I do think she is a whackadoodle.
Talking about pictures- I’d like to know why Travis is holding up what looks to be two fingers in that one pic, what does that mean? Weird..
I really want to know what his tox says.
B
This story contains quite a bit of information I have not heard.
For instance, I did not know TA roommate Zachary Billings was home when his friends came and discovered his body. That his room was locked. Alot of information here, too, about the crime scene.
“Detectives would later theorize that Travis survived the gunshot wound to his face and fought off his killer, before receiving the laceration to his throat and the fatal stab wound to his heart. Due to the savage nature of the crime, detectives believed they were searching for a cold-blooded killer who likely came to the house with the intent to kill.”
“The large amount of blood throughout the bathroom and bedroom areas indicated to me there was either a struggle or the victim was attempting to flee his attacker,” lead homicide Detective Esteban Flores wrote in the police report. “He had numerous injuries and trauma to his body, which indicated he had attempted to defend himself.”
http://www.timespublications.com/aug10-feature1.asp
I am still wondering if there were no witnesses to the gunshot. Did the neighbors not hear it? I understand this was potentially a rapid-pace murder but would that not help with the timeline?
In the pic of Travis (the one with the pen), is that not blood pooling under his rear? If not, what is it? The caption alleges it is before he is murdered.
As for the roomate(s), has it been established that they were actually home while his body was rotting upstairs?
It is the drain. Yes, they were both home after he was dead.
B
I hit submit too soon. I am also still of the opinion that she stabbed him in the back first. I don’t believe the gunshot happened until later but cannot reconcile that with his body being dragged within his suite.
John
Thanks for your complementary comments. Your posibility of a reason to leave Jodi alive is a real stretch. The story about the Zoloft I can believe. I am in complete agreement that drugs of that catagory should never ever be given to anyone in a situation where they are unsupervised. These IMNO are some of the most dangerous drugs that can be prescribed.
I am going to accept your antiquated conclusion statement as sort of a compliment. Sometimes antiques are more valuable than current things. LOL.
I would like to interrupt our regularly scheduled programming to announce the first LOL sighting from ATG.
B
hope this isn’t too o/t – but i had the unpleasant experience of retaining juan martinez (prosecutor in jody arias trial) in early 1988 to handle my divorce. at the time he was in private domestic relations practice in downtown phoenix, az. to make a long story short…after paying him a HEFTY retainer, I ended up firing him for what i considered some very negligent representation (regarding disclosure of financials)and some overall “tom foolery”.
watching him now produces waves of nausea. i didn’t trust him then and i don’t trust him now. imo, he was the wrong one to present for the state.
don’t know how this will end (pros has now rested) but my gut tells me has isn’t going to win. personally, i don’t think this case was over-charged, but I think the state erred in not bringing their biggest and best to the table. he doesn’t fit that bill.
it’s been a long time since i have posted here, im hoping i have not violated with my personal commentary. if so, please feel free to delete.
long time reader and kudos on your coverage of this case.
I hear you. A bit surprised to hear Martinez was a family atty and then a prosecutor- I can’t think of another example like that off the top of my head.
I want to be clear that it is my personal belief that Jodi Arias DID commit first degree murder under AZ statute on June 4, 2008.
I believe that strongly. I also believe that under our system of jurisprudence, when the state decides the charges to levy- in the burden which they have- which is that they feel those charges meet the evidence and that it will result in a successful prosecution- they do so with respect to that burden.
It is what it is. This is a heinous crime perpetrated by a person with grave and undiagnosed personality disorder (s).
As advocates, we have to call out the cracks in the cement.
B
I would like to know TA toxicology results. Did JA give him something to slow him down? The close-up shower pic look in his eyes is haunting and I’ve not been able to discern it.
Blink, you stated that you think TA thought she left, as she was clothed. When? After she took the shower pictures? Did he realize he was being photographed in the shower? Do you think she got the shower pictures unbeknownst to him with a zoom? Is that close-up look on his face the moment he realized she was there, pointing a weapon at him?
Jodi’s interview statements reveal an extremely irrational mind. Who says that if they were intending to kill someone they would shoot them with a gun? Pathological liars/deviants/narcissists are the most clever. They spin & spin their words, never directly answering anything, giving overly detailed accounts of nothing until you are exhausted from trying. This is done to confuse and divert. These people are experts… EXPERTS at it and it works on most people. Unfortunately, even some jurors. It will be interesting to watch her if she takes the stand.
I believe he thought she left, he hit the shower, she sneaks in and starts taking pics of him and he becomes irate. He was downstairs on his computer at 4:19PM, I suppose he walked her down and out at that time, but Jodi says they had sex in his office as well, so I wonder if that statement came from her assuming her DNA would be found there.
B
Blink
Yes, there is a part of me that knows how to have fun with words and situations. You must remmber that as a youngster, I had radio shows that inculuded Amos & Andy, Fiber McGee & Molly and others that we listened to. One’s sense of humor is one of the things that seperates all of us from the animals.
I don’t know why your AR-15 had a bipod, but I am glad to see that you are expanding your experience with guns.
The young woman who made the statement about her five year old nephew shooting the AR-15 is perfectly at ease with all of the guns used in the demonstration. She followed proper safety proceedures throughout the video. The thing she didn’t say about the youngester is his physical size and the fact that she probably used hand loaded cartridges with less than normal powder to reduce the recoil even more.
The AR-15 is really a large varmint rifle that has been given the custom ugly treatment to make it attractive to the pretend crowd. The basic difference is the large powder charge compared to the .22 cal long rifle cartridge and a 60 to 69 grain bullet rather than 37 to 40 grains. The .22 cal. magnum powder charge is approaching that of the AR-15.
This whole thing about the AR-15 being an assault weapon is more than ridiculous. We have a whole bunch of ignorant people in government places that are afraid of guns and have only one agenda and that is to remove them from society.
It appears that the prosecution has rested its case. I think they have mostly failed in presenting evidence to match the charges. If the defense does nothing, it will leave a lot of work for the jury.
bipod was my comfort level. I am always overly cautious when trying out a new weapon. It is not my cup of tea- I am a handgun gal. It was a 223 load- I agree with you that it is no assault weapon, and I don’t want this thread to turn political, but while adjustments to gun laws in certain situations might be due- imo, it is completely avoiding the central issue which is mental illness and gun owners who cannot guarantee non-access.
I personally believe that the gun was not the only thing missing from the grandparents home- or they had reason to check it’s whereabouts for some reason.
B
after torturing myself through the lifetime movie of “she who shall not be named” last night, I watched the CBS 48 hours episode on this case and I agree that after listening to Jodi, the gun probobaly did jam as many on here have stated there is a little truth in every lie. I believe the last picture of him in the shower, which is a haunting photo, is him realizing Jodi has a gun. i think Jodi went to Mesa with the intention that if she couldn’t get Travis to cancel his trip with this other girl and recommit to her or whatever, she was going to kill him. After they “had fun” all day and he informed her that he was still going to Cancun and that they wouldn’t be getting back together and there would be no more sexual relations between them, I think she left the house and put plan B into action: killing him. I think she returned to the bathroom and started taking the pictures of him in which he is in the shower and appears to be praying. After he noticed she was there I think a verbal argument may have quickly ensued, then the last photo of him when he realizes she has the gun, then I think she shot him first. Also, in one of her interviews with Detective Flores, she talks about how if she did it she would have just shot him because it’s more “humane” than stabbing, I think this was another one of those moments where the partial truth slipped out. I think after Travis realized she had the gun, he tried to take it from her and a struggle ensued, thus the camera dropping and then maybe travis fell on the floor as he was prob wet and slippery from being in the shower, which could account for the gunshot trajectory. I think he was able to pull himself up maybe using the sink or something else in the bathroom and then she proceeds to stab him. As much as it pains me to say, with the right experts and the right laying of the foundation of their self defense claims, I think the defense team has put themselves in a position to raise reasonable doubt. The defense lawyers are also much more likeable than the prosecution if that means anything.
The prosecution has put forth data that demonstrates premeditation and guilt, but has not put forth a coherent story. Worse, the state has left loose ends such as, who is the man with the rental car? What kind of knife? Why Tavel 90 miles to rent a car, but then show real ID? Too many loose ends breed reasonable doubt.
The specific questions asked by the jury suggest that the jury isn’t buying into the state’s narrative.
The hardest job for the prosecution, however, is to convince a jury that the damsel in distress at the defendant’s table is not what she appears to be. It is hard to picture a jury sending this woman to death row, and I fear the commitment to putting her to death is hurting the case.
As you already know, I completely agree with you. This is exactly what happened in Casey Anthony’s trial.
It is almost too raw for most to admit it- but she was overcharged and it was reflected in the verdict.
There is no such thing as a sure thing, and honestly when you have a defendant like Anthony or Arias- you would think it would occur to these folks tasked with representing the state.
B
Ragdoll, I appreciate you attempting to make up an apology for me, I really do, but in future, could you take lessons from Anne (e) and write a proper good appology for me that I can be proud of?
Ragdoll
Your description of the early practices of the Mormans is contained in the Book of Morman. My 20 yr. old grandson who is reading the Book for information came by to visit today. I asked him how the reading was progressing. He said that he had to stop. He could not get beyond the blood attonement issue. We will discuss it together soon.
If one reads the early practices of the Jews, there are a lot of things that are relics of misplaced beliefs. The Mormans for the most part (with some exceptions)are well past those early practices. Primitive belief systems usually are found to be too limiting and changes are made to bring beliefs more in line with love for one another.
I am not as versed in various religions as many of you are, I tend to stick to “profile” because I believe that profiles are formed exclusive of religion- and in the instance it becomes a factor it is simply drawn on by the offender in some way for justification or motivation.
Jodi Arias is not driven by religion. She is driven by her inability to accept rejection in the way it was dealt to her- as per her perception.
That said, nobody profiling is going to be in a position to assess what the hell occurs to drive this woman to maim and viciously murder this man twice her size with 2 different weapons without interviewing her personally – and getting the truth. As an analyst and advocate, I want to know.
B
B., I would dearly love it if you could interview her. If she did admit to killing Travis in self defense, then she should have no trouble admitting to where she put the gun and the knife.
Any opinions on the sign of Satan T. appears to be making ie the two fingers in shape of horns???? (in photo) Jodi was into whitchcraft according to T. friend, but did not hear T. was.
None, and there is no evidence I have found outside of Mafford forming an opinion on an image of hers that she was or is involved in witchcraft- or any permutations of same.
I can guarantee you she will say that the gun came from the house, and so did the knife, and she left both there. Not true, but it is the way to support self defense and le eff up in one story.
B
Blink/Jacqueline,
What is the six head shot compiliation–with #5 circled–in this article? Who circled and why, I’d like to ask. thank you.
It is the photo lineup shown to Joe Columbo (rental agent) which he circled after identifying Jodi and put his initials below it. That is Jodi’s mugshot- before which she asked police if she could apply makeup .
He identified Jodi but said she was a blonde when she picked up the vehicle. She is blonde on June 2, and she is brunette on June 4. No testimony about when or how she might have colored her hair however.
B
Thank you Blink for your comment on my last post which means a lot to me.
While the prosecution did not presented their case properly, i hope they will be abble to compensate for their lack when the defense present their case, by cross examination! But to do so they have to be aware first, that they failed to respond and explain some of the crucial evidence or the abscence of some others. I hope the juror will keep their facts straight and do not loose themselves in some unimportant details.
well said Loni, I hope for that as well. How open to this concept is Martinez I wonder?
B
Honestly Blink i hope they have some consultants now helping them to review some of the trial sessions and advising them for the upcomming ones.
Unfortunately, that prosecutors office has had some serious “mishaps” in the past.
I included a link to it in the piece to see if anyone would pick up on it- the indictments and subsequent trial of Doug Grant is worth a read.
B
Thank you Blink that will be my lecture tonight. I missed to look at this link.
I am going to agree with Blink’s statement attached to my reply to Ragdoll. Too many times we have a perp taking the tact that “the devil made me do it” or “GOD told me to do it because….”.
Because of the limitations of our laws regarding self incrimination, we may never have an opportunity to find the total answer. This woman was angry because she felt she had invested a lot in Travis and he had taken advantage of her. IMO every stab wound represented something she was angy about.
The police have never found the actual murder weapons. The forensics people were never asked an opinion in court of the type of knife used so the jury could have some idea of the weapon. Loose ends from the beginning do not make it easy to convict.
The sound from the little 25 cal. automatic is small, more like a small firecracker. Unless someone is familiar with the sound of various guns when fired, they would not attach much to it. Inside a tiled bath there might be some echo effect, but it would not carry the walls.
I would just add the sound of the gun firing would also depend on the type of pistol and the ammo used, if it was fired near someone’s ear it would definitely produce a ringing “reaction”. I think you were referring to someone outside or a neighbor. If that gun was fired when someone was home, in the acoustics of that bathroom, it would be unmistakable.
B
Sweet Brown!!! Catchy… good one, B
John says:
January 20, 2013 at 7:35 pm
Respectfully, I seek not, your approval. You made an assumption about my post. It was rude.
I respect BOC and my poster friends. For that reason, I won’t dignify your rudeness with a comment, to avoid dissension and negativity in the BOC environment. My true BOC friends, know my heart and character. I’m grateful for that
Blessings.
Thanks for that and now a friendly warning to John- we can disagree but we do not attack the poster- let’s stick to the facts of the post.
B
A Texas Grandfather says:
January 20, 2013 at 9:20 pm
I don’t blame him! The link I provided….I couldn’t finish reading that piece either. You’re absolutely right about other faiths. There have been violent rituals in many faiths, that are no longer practiced. Ultimately, the truth lives within the mind of Jodi. Just like Caylee Marie, we will never know detail for detail, how it all went down. Self preservation, I suspect.
Just like creature, a jury of her peers my find her not guilty b/c the prosecution failed to prove burden, but the world will brand her for what she had done. She murdered Travis Alexander, like a savage. Who’s going to be the second most hated woman in America?
Ragdoll’s right, John. We prefer to love you in rather than kick you out. I’ve had my share of negative posts here, yet, surprisingly, I got loved right back into the work of advocacy for victims such as Travis.
Scroll through the left hand column of names. Many of those are innocent of doing or being anything but prey for the criminals we seek to bring to justice.
If you’re not able to respond to some posts or don’t feel you can persuade them to your viewpoint (or to see the folly in their own, as we often think), it is best to keep focused on both the small and large facts of the case.
As Blink says, this is a friendly growl because we value you and want you employed shoulder to shoulder with us in this grisly work.
Ditto- I feel John’s overall queries are meritorious, and I also felt his opinions on respect for women in general are very important. I like to think that I have proven the point that people with dissenting views on info can still collaborate effectively. My team does it everyday. We rarely view the data the same way- but that is how we develop new information every time we have.
B
Eloise says:
January 19, 2013 at 8:36 pm
Hey girl.
When I posted that link, I was already in the belief that she didn’t do it to help him atone for his sins. I thought it was an interesting aspect of a past Mormon ritual.
Then I thought, she’s psycho enough to believe, in her twisted sense of reality or lack of, that she was actually doing him a favour! It’s a long shot but she’s not right in the mind, as we know. Also, I do doubt she lacked genuine interest in spirituality or embracing the religion. She went through the motions, and that’s about it.
There’s some shock value in that link, though. Eeeeesh.
Happy Inauguration Day to my American friends!
One more question….for the experts…
Is it too late for the state to down grade the charges?
Probably just wishful thinking on my part. Perhaps the jury can do what Creature’s jury could not, and connect the dots on their own.
The most recent minutes are not available and today is a holiday, but in the event that the motions for directed verdict and mistrial are denied and the court intends to proceed with the defense case, upon motion the prosecution can ammend the charges to lesser includeds. I doubt very highly the defense would not argue vehemently against that in this matter.
B