Kyron Horman Exclusive Report: New Suspect And Botched Investigation Rumors Abound- Terri Horman Prepares To Fight For Couples Daughter Following Seclusion
If you are reading this and have followed the Kyron Homan disappearance coverage since he vanished from Skyline School on June 4th 2010, you know my coverage and commentary has focused on the macro analysis of the case details- both publicly available and via developed sources. This report contains newly released information known to law enforcement. It’s contents, to include reader commentary and moderation response, may not be reproduced or copied without express written consent by it’s author in accordance with applicable copyright law.
*TONIGHT* LIVE ON THE DANA PRETZER SHOW- S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief discusses the Kyron Horman Case status LIVE at 9PM EST.
Click Here To Listen To Podcast
Last Week’s Meet And Greet
On Tuesday July 30th, the attorneys representing Terri Moulton Horman, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young attended a series of case hearings. Not held in chambers as announced, but public guests were barred.
On the docket- Desiree Young’s “stay” status of the $10 million dollar civil tort action brought against Terri Horman and the dissolution (divorce and custody) litigation brought by Kaine Horman, Terri’s estranged husband. Until July 26th, there were additional hearings and status conferences scheduled for the recently renewed Freedom From Abuse and Protection Act (FAPA) motion to contest and compel depositions in the restraining order prohibiting Terri Horman from contact with the couple’s daughter Kiara, now 5 years old. Horman has not seen her daughter since June 2010 despite several attempts through counsel to arrange parenting time. Engel, one of the attorneys representing Kaine Horman, argues that the FAPA case is consolidated with the divorce action, and therefore stayed.
Peter Bunch, counsel for Terri Horman, argues that there is no consolidation order.
Non attorney’s still do not understand how the initial proceeding to renew the FAPA order occurred when the plaintiff failed to file the required motion and accompanying affidavits in advance as required, or even serve the respondent’s attorneys until ordered to do so by Judge Henry Kantor once the hearing commenced. Kantor ordered the renewal anyway. I will let the goodly Oregon bar members weigh in on that anomaly.
That was then. This is now.
As of July 31st, the FAPA restraining order was expired and a civil no contact order was put in its place. The dissolution matter (divorce) stay has been lifted and Desiree Young announced she was instructing her attorney’s to withdraw the $10 million dollar suit financed by public donations.
On the same front steps where Atty Rosenthal announced that they were launching the suit to peel the onion that is to include law enforcement, and to “make Terri Horman talk” was withdrawn in similar fashion.
However, on this occasion, Multnomah County District Attorney Rod Underhill was not spotted on the steps observing. Rosenthal and Young indicated the recent appearance and testimony of former object of compulsion to testify, DeDe Spicher, as well as information that the investigative case file necessary (their words) to prove their claims would not be forthcoming. In an article analyzing the suit appearing on BOC it was predicted that Ms. Young would face possible countersuit and associated fees should the suit continue as filed.
Attorneys for both Kaine and Terri appeared before Multnomah County Circuit Family law Judge Susan Svetkey on August 1, 2013. Judge Svetkey is Houze’s wife. The docket information for that hearing has not yet been entered into the file as of this publication.
The only comment about the withdrawal of the civil tort action by Stephen Houze:
“The lawsuit was unfounded and lacking in legal merit,” Houze said. “One can only hope that the dismissal of this meritless lawsuit receives the same degree of media scrutiny as was given to its filing.”
In recent interviews, Kaine Horman has intimated that his wife has expressed her desire to help find Kyron, or at least contribute to excluding herself as a possible suspect. He also admitted that he no longer has any communication with Desiree Young, Kyron’s mother. He sometimes wonders what law enforcement is actually doing on his son’s case. This is a firm departure from how Mr. Horman initially retained his six figure attorney Laura Rackner of Gearing, Rackner, and Engel & McGrath. Ms. Rackner appears to have promulgated her duties of late to her partner, Brett Engel.
This all seemed to start when formidable and well known tort Attorney Mark Wagner came out of retirement to appear as counsel for Terri Horman. Wagner and Rackner know each other, and Rackner is no stranger to LE –based dissolution entanglements.
In fact, Wagner represented her and her previous firm successfully.
Bagel Finagle
Kaine Horman’s attorney Laura Rackner is no stranger to law enforcement infused litigation. She is a former prosecutor for Oregon’s department of Justice, The U.S. Department of Justice, and Office of Chief Counsel. Ms. Rackner has specificity in Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) casework.
Born in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Laura received her B.S. in 1979 and her J.D. in 1984, both from the University of Oregon.
Prior to entering private practice, Laura served as deputy district attorney in the Marion County District Attorney’s Office; assistant attorney general in the Oregon Department of Justice; and on the staff of the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Chief Counsel, Drug Enforcement Administration.
Record Scratch.
Martin Rob Cagan, The bagel king and according to him, a supreme target of a police shakedown at the hands of his former spouse’s attorneys was the litigious sort.
In fact, this may be how Atty Wagner decides to come out of retirement and become part of Terri Horman’s defense team while the civil suit was active.
Wagner’s firm represented Ms. Rackner in a suit filed by Rob Cagan in which he sued the Dueshete Police Department, A partner in the firm representing Caroleen Vanhoomissen, the suit (or ramblings of a very angry divorcee) alleges that the firm and its lawyers facilitated the difficulties of Mr. Cagan utilizing law enforcement sources directly by the attorneys was dismissed.
Ms. Vanhoomissen, the sister of Judge Vanhoomissen is also the owner of a horse farm in Bend, Oregon. Blinkoncrime was unable to verify if it was the Bend horse farm searched in the early days of the investigation for Kyron.
Attorney Rackner’s prior working relationship with the DEA, the very agency that supplied the undercover officer in the failed sting involving Horman landscaper Rudy Sanchez begs the question- Did Rackner use her contacts and/or credentials to facilitate a surreptitious ruse to gain favor for her client in anticipation of his wife’s potential arrest?
Kaine is on record that law enforcement informed him they had probable cause to arrest Terri. What is not on record, is what came first- the referral to Rackner.
I just want to do what I can to help law enforcement
Seems like an odd comment coming from a family attorney with a background as a prosecutor working with the DEA, which agency subsequently becomes involved in the case- or initially led to her representation- the chicken or the egg facts remain unclear.
The ex parte and originally sealed restraining order did not exclude Terri Horman from the marital home. Was this an oversight of a very seasoned family attorney or was the basis of the now defunct restraining order as provided to Kaine Horman and Laura Rackner by law enforcement effectively invalidated by Terri Horman calling 911?
Is the reason that Atty Engel seems to have taken over representation of Kaine Horman due to the fact that these actions could render Ms. Rackner a witness in her client’s case as opposed to his Attorney?
In the motions and subsequent hearing scheduled for July 30th, the only available arguments outside of the parties agreement is to contest the basis for the FAPA order- or, the allegation Kaine Horman has made within his affidavits more than once, that his wife tried to hire “our landscaper” to kill him, and that she is being investigated for “violent crimes.”
The outcome?
The order was converted to a civil no-contact order which has not yet been added to the file for public review.
Desiree and Kaine’s respective camps both claimed “protecting the integrity of the investigation” was their only interest although the ONLY 2 witnesses who were summoned for deposition by Terri Horman’s lawyers were- the lead investigator of Kyron’s investigation for 18 months- Bobby John O’Donnell and Kaine Horman.
Back To School
Skyline School, the International Baccalaureate candidate who announced the IB open house format weeks earlier via take home handouts to its students and also by displaying the event on its marquis has never been declared a crime scene. Although in nearly every legal support brief or news coverage article Terri Horman was dubbed “the last person to be seen with Kyron Horman” or more recently by Desiree Young as “Kyron was last seen by someone who cared about him at 8:45 am” absolutely no witness account or Science Fair insider was known publicly to dispute such accounts.
Until now.
“Once I learned all that was going on that same day, in that same school, I did not understand why I was being told that Terri Horman was the suspect, and one other person… It never made sense to me that they knew Kyron was seen with someone else besides his stepmother after she left, that they seemed to not even consider another theory.” (*Editor’s Note*- parts of the source’s quote have been redacted as they would reveal identity of witnesses in an ongoing criminal investigation)
Electric Slide?
Sometime after Terri Horman left the school with her daughter Kiara in tow, she was captured on store video prior to Kyron’s exit from Skyline School. It is believed Kyron was last seen between 9:05 and 9:20 AM.
The following is a summation of multiple direct witness accounts, edited to protect witness identification only.
“…He must have been standing behind me because I only recall hearing him ask if the boy could help him bring some stuff in from his truck. I thought it was (edited) until he looked up at him and then he looked at Ms. Matthews for approval and she nodded her head yes in response. They walked out of the South entrance together and I do not recall seeing either of them again.
Classroom 1 Property of www.blinkoncrime.com
(Editor’s Note: It is believed that Desiree and Kaine’s comments about concern that instruction they gave him last year about listening to staff “came back to haunt them.” They have never acknowledged they were told about this witness account but a source close to www.blinkoncrime.com has confirmed they were informed but not given a witness description.
www.blinkoncrime.com has confirmed the EXIF data on the image includes the timestamp of June 4 2010 at 8:43AM PST.
Backstory OR Backdrop?
Among the peers of Kyron Horman in attendance on June 4th, were some children whose parents may have been granted access via the open house format, although documents filed with the school and LE would preclude the parents from removing them.
In fact, the mother of a chief witness in this case was arrested that very day for attempting to fill a script that did not belong to her, in a pharmacy that Terri Horman allegedly also visited that morning.
Another child whose parents lost custody due to very long histories with substance abuse and associated criminal behavior had the additional possible misfortune of closely resembling both Kaine and Terri Horman.
Non Custodial Parent Red Long Hair
It is unknown whether either parent took the opportunity to visit the school that day, but they were not included on the published list. While barred legally from removing their child from the school they could not be barred from a publicly announced invitational. There was no ID checks or sign-in sheets for non-volunteer guests.
In an unrelated twist, the child’s Father was found deceased in front of a Portland residence in April 2012. The name of the child and Kyron’s schoolmate, guardians and parents are being intentionally withheld for this article.
Sovereignty In lieu Of..
Among the many unanswered questions in Kyron’s disappearance: Why hasn’t the school been held accountable? He disappeared on their watch- with a concise standard of care duty and plan.
What really happened?
There is no dispute that Kyron had an exchange that resulted in a teacher nodding her approval that Kyron assist a man in his stated purpose- to bring things in from his truck. There is no dispute that Kyron was last seen at Skyline School. There is no dispute that both Kyron’s parents expressed concern that last year’s discipline involving instruction on being a better listener may have come back to haunt them. They said so.
What may be in dispute, for sure, is how accurate the list of attendees at the Skyline School of June 4th, 2010 is.
As an example, one witness told Editor In Chief, S. Christina Stoy that a young male former student said hello to Susan Hall and when asked by a parent who the lad was a few days later, she said she was not sure. He is NOT on the list.
When another parent subsequently asked Ms. Hall who the student was following Kyron’s disappearance to verify he was on the published list- she responded she could not remember. Ms. Hall was the Skyline Administrative staff who contacted 911 upon speaking to Terri Horman and learning Kyron was not on the bus. Hall subsequently contacted Desiree Young. She did this while the Horman’s were on their way back to the school to see if Kyron might have thought he was being picked up that day as opposed to riding the bus or some other sort of snafu.
According to the MCSO, the school records that could assist the investigation were never requested to be preserved by investigators and as a result were deleted.
So why was the Skyline School never named as a defendant in the previously pending litigation filed by Kyron’s mother Desiree Young?
The reason may lie in the recreational designation utilized on June 4th, 2010.
According to the National Policy and Legal Analysis Network (napl) it may be a simple question of whether Kyron disappeared during the “recreational” portion of the program.
Napl’s guidance to lawyer’s advising Oregon schools can be read here. Although the overall plan is relative to an obesity initiative, it would include research and advice on any school recreational or regularly scheduled event. Please tell me Cogen does not factor into this.
The following are excerpts from the report:
…”Absent special liability protection, school districts and other providers of recreational facilities have the legal duty to take reasonable precautions to prevent injury. What is reasonable is very context specific and depends on many things: most important, the nature of the harm, the difficulty of preventing it, and generally accepted standards in the management of recreational facilities…”
…” The only immunity Oregon grants to public bodies, which include school districts,2 is discretionary government immunity.3 Discretionary government immunity applies to choices “among alternative public policies by persons to whom responsibility for such policies have been delegated.”4 To fall under the protection of this doctrine, Oregon courts have said, the choice must result from the exercise of judgment and involve a public policy or nonroutine day-to-day activity.
…” In summary, Oregon immunizes schools for policy choices its officials make, but it holds schools liable for breaches of duty that occur in carrying out those policy choices…”
…” The recreational user statute should therefore provide strong protection to Oregon schools seeking to avoid liability arising from after-hours outdoor recreational programs on school grounds. Applying this statute to indoor recreational activities, however, is much riskier, although the case law does not preclude such a strategy.
Regular School Day- Changes Things
…” In Oregon, schools owe students a duty to “supervise at all times the conduct of children on school grounds and to enforce those rules and regulations necessary to their protection. . . . The standard of care imposed upon school personnel in carrying out the duty to supervise the conduct of students is that degree of care which a person of ordinary prudence, charged with comparable duties, would exercise under the same circumstances.”37
Is the issue of liability to Skyline School relegated to what time Kyron was abducted, presuming he was abducted, as is believed?
Very possibly.
As we know, the school opened early the morning of June 4th, 2010, as was displayed on the school’s marquis at least 2 weeks prior. Without particular knowledge of when the suspect responsible for Kyron’s disappearance entered the school, and under what auspice, one is left to the timeline of Kyron’s activities as juxtaposed with the start of the school day. As a regular standard of care, one could argue that begins with a student getting on the bus, if a passenger, on their regular route. What if a bus passenger is attending the “event” outside of the bus transportation? Admittedly, it seems moot inasmuch as neither one of Kyron’s parents have filed suit against the school or named them as having any negligence or liability. That said, it remains a possibility in the event Kyron is found.
There is no question Kyron was seen after 8:45AM- which is the time that a regularly scheduled bus arrives- which would ring the bell, so to speak, on the normal school day.
To be Continued:
Roid Noise And The Boys In Blue- Publishing Thursday August 8. Preview Discussion Tonight on THE DANA PRETZER SHOW.
Ellie Sanders contributed research to this report.
Jacqueline Beaufort, contributing editor
Image retouching courtesy of Klaasend
Previous Coverage:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/
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1,039 Comments
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T. Ruth says:
August 20, 2013 at 7:59 pm
Can someone please tell me why Kaine, Desiree & Tony have said since, pretty much the beginning, that Terri was not cooperating, when LE has told us all along that she has cooperated? Why should we believe the three of them over LE?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IMO Kaine, Desiree and Tony’s idea of Terri cooperating is to tell where Kyron is. Nothing else counts.
T. Ruth
Thanks for the photo link of the snapshot from the road regarding the road and fence. As poor as the photo is, one can see the chain link fence extending West from the ball field backstop. Why that does not show on the Google Earth view is not known. Google may be using photos that are old as a background taken prior to the fence construction.
Laughing at your last sentence on your #43 post. Little women can drive big trucks. On the return leg of a trip to California in the late 1970′s, two big 18 wheel rigs pulled into the parking lot of a hotel just East of El Paso. Two little women climbed down from the drivers seat. With the advent of power steering, there is no reason for them not to drive them.
vw
If the attendance projection is correct, I would think that PPS would close the school and transfer the remaining students to another location.
In Texas, there are many small schools like Skyline located in rural areas. Where a primary school is a part of a large school district, they are closed when the k-5 population falls below 350.
Rose says:
August 21, 2013 at 11:13 am
In our publics, a volunteer stops in the Office, gets a stickon visitor badge, and signs in on a volunteer list which includes times in & out & in high school car is added. There is a different sign-in list for other school visitors. I cannot believe this is not typical of PPS & imo Hall was in the job too long & maybe to begin with was a former parent rather than an AA professional. This was Keefer’s first principal job, & he seems tohave opted for Skyline way of doing business & popularity.
**********************************************************************
I served as a community volunteer LAST YEAR at a PPS grade school for a community resource fair, after school hours. The fair was a resource fair, mainly for the kids (think Big Brothers, Big Sisters, Scouts, etc.), but we were included as a resource to parents.
This was in the gym, which led to the parking lot. There was NOTHING between my table, myself and the door to the parking lot. The kids were running around everywhere while the parents were talking to the various resource representatives. I even mentioned to my co-worker “man, it’s a good thing we don’t have nefarious plans.” We could have literally been out the door with a child in a matter of moments. No visitors badges, no sign in, no real identification of me or my counterparts. I had a box, someone directed me to the gym. This was last year. It was really disheartening.
@herveness. kudos to you for volunteerism & warm wishes.
I wish your experience were unique but imo is common to Counties.
County gov’t often use schools astheir community site extensions.
You’ve a few years to go but no easier or safer in college.
Does anyone think that the “locals” know or deeply suspect exactly what happened to Kyron on 6-4-2010?
–and that they are suspicioning among themselves, but not telling LE everything they know (because they just “suspect”), which – if gthey did share – would probably lead to finding Kyron.
i.e., sometimes listening to gossip one might just find a grain of truth that will solve this disappearance once and for all.
By the way, I also wonder just how many of the other mom-parents at Skyline were jealous of TMH, who probably caught the attention of many of the dad/parents up on that hill.
Poor, frightened little boy – I can’t imagine how scary this must have been for him. and although I know everyone thinks he is no longer with us, I have always held out hope that somehow he will come back.
I tend to wonder just how much KH knows; probably a whole lot more than he is telling.
It is one thing to have a search organized & run by generous volunteers supportive of a bio.
It is quite another to have a search composed of volunteers drawn from 2 online hate groups focused on a POI.
Any found evidence would be thrown out of Court. If M Herron is collaborating or guiding, imo where is his
supervision? If I were Det in charge at mcso, I would send a letter to Kelly who seems to be the
ringmaster per A-DD FB–stating mcso was neither collaborating nor approving of this private activity, just to have something in writing in my file (cya). Imo poor Kyron.
If this is their course, considering both Kaine and MCSO have risen funds and are available for a search, what does this say ?
B
@Blink. Do you think more likely than not Rudy is “key”? –played some role?
thinking of Adriaunna whose abductor/killer was given some work by the family.
I do not think that has been excluded to my satisfaction, no.
B
Hi Grasshopper and T. Ruth, here is the link to the article in which the MCSO indicates that TMH has not been consistently cooperative:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/search-kyron-horman-cops-reportedly-pressuring-terri-hormans/t/story?id=11243557
redrose says: I tend to wonder just how much KH knows; probably a whole lot more than he is telling.
*******************
I wonder why DY’s hubby – TY – is not more in the loop. He’s in LE. Kyron’s disappearance was not in his jurisdiction but he should have more of the inside scoop. Could it be that the police in Ky’s jurisdiction are at a standstill? (Like from day one.) FBI? Sorry – not understanding the lack of information all this time for DY and the lack of focus on anyone other than TH. (Until Blink’s latest article). I’m going to say that I’ve met many people in my line of work who could have figured this out already and made some serious moves to bring a suspect in to custody. I have to believe that some of the locals know a lot or have drawn some educated opinions on what happened that day.
@Blink. before it went to available to FB signins only-a couple months ago-Desiree on the Roseburg FB page had a post around the time of her last search informing supporters Mark Herron (mcso search co-coordinator & now Detective) was involved (the site chosen, scope, I can’t remember) & participating. Someone who will signin to FB can look back for the quote unless it’s deleted. Wasn’t that early winter 2012? Personally, I don’t think Desiree would do this unless Herron choses the site & participates. Kelly is processing paperwork & imo that’s something to meet mcso search volunteer qualifications.
From a planning perspective- a critical SAR protocol is a defined perimeter, or search area based on credible information.
Where do we suppose that is coming from?
B
Why does LE or Rackner, or both, contact the DEA to assist in a MFH sting/entrapment? Why D E A? IS there a drug component to Kyron’s abduction?
imo Kaine’s lawyer would never let him participate.
fastest way to inadvertantly leave evidence where body mite
be found, resulting in a false accusation
Sorry, Gracie, your link isn’t working for me, but is it the one where MCSO says ” at times she has been cooperative and times not”?
I would be interested in the date of that one. Here’s why, as of July 22, Staton said “she has never refused any request by them”. This was well after the sting. IMHO, once Terri hired Houze, HE would have told her to cease all cooperation, unless he was there. Wasn’t that around the end of June? So I would be interested in the date of that article.
If LE felt they needed more info from TMH than they already had in 5+hours interviews at a time, by golly, all they had to do was contact her lawyer.
I could not imagine, IF Terri is innocent, what this must have felt like. Perhaps she didn’t much care for stepson, so what? How many of us have said “I don’t care for him/her or the other”. Beware, those words could come back to haunt you should something nefarious happen to them. She may be guilty as hell…..or not. IMO, LE closed the door to whatever avenue they were seeking via TMH. Perhaps even the avenue that lead to suspect zero. Sad state of affairs.
I might add that Staton’s comment “she has never refused any request by them”, would totally contradict Kaine, Desiree & Tony’s statement about Terri refusing to take the third LDT. Hmmmm? Unless of course, the LDT was not administered by them, but some other party, FBI? IDK. Just most interesting statements.
I also find it odd that TY is MIA. IMO, career be damned, you stand by your wife. It has to be considered that he simply no longer agrees with the direction she is going in, and hasn’t for some time. If that is true, then who has DY’s ear?
two new mcso sar orientation mtgs Sept 11&18:
http://www.mcsosar.org/
one way to end run a budget for Herron:
use Kyron for these weekend long training outings after in-class.
http://www.mcsosar.org/index_files/Page13758.htm
Well, Desiree’s search team is unlikely to be sar-qualified mcso community volunteers because I don’t see Kelly requiring they pass the State Certification test to participate in the upcoming search:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multnomah_County_Sheriff's_Office_Search_and_Rescue
“Membership
There are certain requirements to join MCSO Search and Rescue team,[1] these being:
Desire to serve the community
14 years of age or older
If in school, must maintain a Grade point average of 2.5 or higher
Able to pass a criminal background check
Have up-to-date vaccinations
Physical fitness: operating on foot and hike for long periods of time
Maintain a minimum amount of required outdoor equipment and clothing
On call 24/7
Pass a state certification exam”
@Sue says:
August 21, 2013 at 10:40 pm
I wonder the same stuff. After all it was TY who first fingered Terri publicly, other than DY’s maternal instincts:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38420266/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/t/little-boy-lost/
July 26, 2013: (Now, remember Staton said on July 22, Terri had never refused an MCSO request)
TONY YOUNG: I thought that something must not be right, something must not be allowing them to check her off their list.
KATE SNOW: Isn’t it possible, though, that she was just nervous, that she didn’t pass her lie detector test with flying colors because she was emotional or upset or nervous?
TONY YOUNG: There’s more to it than just that. The information that you’re giving, does it—does it hit your ear and sound right? Does it make sense?
KATE SNOW: She wasn’t making sense?
TONY YOUNG: Not from the information I heard from her.
A source close to the family says Terri complained the polygraph test made her feel like a criminal. Investigators, she said, were aggressive and tried to rattle her. Tony and Desiree say the biggest question marks revolved around Terri’s whereabouts that morning that Kyron went missing.
DESIREE YOUNG: She couldn’t explain to them for about two hours worth of time where she was or what she was doing.
DESIREE YOUNG: She couldn’t explain to them for about two hours worth of time where she was or what she was doing.
And there was something else that gave Desiree and Tony a sinking feeling that something wasn’t right. They say Terri’s cell phone records apparently didn’t match up with where she said she was on the morning of Kyron’s disappearance.
TONY YOUNG: That to me is strike two. That’s huge… There’s starting to be some structural problems with what she’s saying at that point. And then it continues to stack up.
Strike two. And with that, Desiree and Tony **began to put pressure on Terri** to talk with investigators again, tell them everything she knows.
DESIREE YOUNG: I tried to use my mother card, from one mother to another. I tried to get her to understand that if the tables were turned and I was the last person seen with Kiara, would she not want me to do everything possible to bring Kiara home? And she said, ‘Of course.’ I said, ‘OK, then, you’ve got to cooperate with them. And I don’t care if they ask you to take 10
polygraphs, you’ve got to do it. It’s just the right thing to do, for Kyron.’
KATE SNOW: Is that one of the last times you spoke to her?
DESIREE YOUNG: Yeah.
************
So, did LE share Terri’s poly info with their bro in blue? How the heck else could he even comment on this situation?
There is a reason none a lot of this case DOES NOT MAKE SENSE, and someone knows why.
Yes, cause they lied. Cause they can- except in this set of circumstances where it will assuredly come back eventually.
B
Tony’s self-identified “biggest case” (& conviction after 2nd trial)
had no physical evidence.
No wonder he’s comfortable with mcso poi:
04/2013 story
http://www.ktvl.com/shared/news/top-stories/stories/ktvl_vid_6491.shtml?wap=0
I haven’t looked at this case but hopewitnesses weren’t anglo & a proper
lineup was used.
http://www.opb.org/news/article/witnesses_describe_fatal_clash_as_chaotic/
tony’s big case.
He’s very comfortable with anglos, each of whom have admitted to about 12 beers, in a chaotic fight,
identifying “the Mexican” with no physical evidence. Sheesh.
IMO, when Desiree went into her civil action, she was well aware that HER medical records would become part of the action. So, has anyone considered that Rosenthal’s request may have had something to the records of someone else?
Such as TY or anyone else associated with them? I know if I were a cop, I would not want my records made public for anyone and everyone to see. Could be even others in that family, IDK, but I think everyone who thinks Rosenthal’s motion was just in regard to concealing Desiree’s med records, might just be limiting their view of the motion.
@erose says:
August 21, 2013 at 11:29 pm
Why does LE or Rackner, or both, contact the DEA to assist in a MFH sting/entrapment? Why D E A? IS there a drug component to Kyron’s abduction?
+++++++++++++++++++++
I’ve asked this question myself, erose. The answer I’ve always come up with is the DEA Personnel/Staff had existing/available undercover agents who had experience in sting operations. Nothing more…just convenience and readily available undercover agents.
Of course, all MOO and my own assumptions.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
@T. Ruth says:
August 21, 2013 at 11:49 pm+++++++++++++++++++++++++
AND
@Blink
Yes, cause they lied. Cause they can- except in this set of circumstances where it will assuredly come back eventually.
B
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wasn’t there a source to you that indicated TMH failed poly questions on lifestyle issues only? Or was that speculation on our (the Blinksters who love Kyron) part?
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
speculation
B
went to the file room today. expected to get some recent filings concerning the divorce. surely depositions are being scheduled, other things. the usual, but nothing since last time. I did look up the doc vw asked about, Bunch’s response to the quashing subpoena motion. It was there, filed under the dismissal eve though it was NOT present last time. normally things are just added to the top of the file. an effort was made to leave the impression that this was filed in a timely manner, as evidenced by its date stamp, but it wasn’t. good response https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/response%20to%20quashing%20subpoena.pdf
don’t know why they hold back these docs rather they make them available to public as they are supposed to do. seems to me the DA/LE/Kaine stuff gets in immediately.
07-07-10
“She has not contacted investigators to give a statement that could help bring Kyron home,” Tony Young said.
The Youngs declined to answer questions as to why they suspect Terri Horman might have information she is not sharing with police.
The Youngs were responding to a statement made last week by Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton, who said Terri Horman was cooperating with the investigation. Investigators haven’t named her as a suspect or a person of interest, The Associated Press reported.
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100707/NEWS/7070321
@erose. I keep saying, the then fbi (new, first time as one) field office director whose face was the joint tv pontificator early on with mcso spent95% (cavalier est) of his working life hand in hand with dea agents on drug cases. He used what he knew.
While some think dea sting agent was chosen due to something to do with Hormans’ nefarious activities,
I think the dea undercover agent was recruited due to this new office fbi head
using what & who he knew in the field.
At least he got to retire gracefully.
And, pardon me– they needed a trained hispanic undercover le agent to work with Rudy.
You think they’d find an hispanic officer in mcso?
Where will you find one in Oregon except in DEA?
Not an esoteric choice.
T. Ruth says:
August 21, 2013 at 11:49 pm
@Sue says:
August 21, 2013 at 10:40 pm
I wonder the same stuff. After all it was TY who first fingered Terri publicly, other than DY’s maternal instincts:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38420266/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/t/little-boy-lost/
July 26, 2013: (Now, remember Staton said on July 22, Terri had never refused an MCSO request)
TONY YOUNG: I thought that something must not be right, something must not be allowing them to check her off their list.
@TRUTH.
This is the MOST DAMNING of all the so=called “evidence”….
Everyone knew TY was in the housel
EVeryone knew the Polys were being executed in the house.
Everyone knew that deputies like Shultz were there….listening up to “experts”
like detective “YOUNG”.
How could that first weekend go by without some kind of evidence against a step-mom
that had NOT given 100% testimony that cleared her?
Where are you getting that the poly’s were conducted inside the home?
B
I just noticed that the account of Mark DeWitt includes three people which is the same head count that DY gave in that interview, where Kyron saw it all. It was the reporter who stated there were three men, but DeWitt’s account was two men and a heavy set female. (Could DAD be mistaken for a heavy set female?) DeWitt witnessed his account on the day of the family presser, so the female obviously wasn’t TH. DeWitt was unable to get through on the hotline and eventually reached out to McCain. If we believe there were three people at the school, near a white pickup with Kyron, then DeWitt’s account seems somewhat credible, and the best lead to follow, imo.
http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-777-kyron_horman_update_one_tipsters_startling_suspici.html
Rose says:
August 21, 2013 at 11:51 pm
No wonder he’s comfortable with mcso poi
Rose, TY has irritated me from the first time I heard him…and I can just imagine the scene in the house with him educating TMH as to what she should expect of police interrogation procedures. He comes off as a pompous lower level detective and completely out of his element. And I have to wonder just how influential his sharing DY’s opinion of TMH with the case LEOs was in their settling almost immediately on TMH as a suspect.
My assumptions are this is not something that could have been pulled off by TMH without help. Then I have to ask myself…Who would help a TMH (or any woman) do this??? IMO – no one, and if ever there was one, it would not be a secret this long, again MOO. The only scenario that fits for me of a sole perp would be in the case of SZ acting alone.
DY has accused TMH of this crime stating she felt TMH snapped and brought harm to Kyron. The “snapped” doesn’t work for me because I feel that would have left a trail and she would have needed help. IMO – This was a planned abduction, and Kyron was not necessarily the intended specific target, just the right gender, size, and available.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
Rudy. I don’t remember seeing a photograph, but does he match description of “SZ”. Or what would his direct involvement be?
Rose says:
August 21, 2013 at 9:56 pm
@Blink. Do you think more likely than not Rudy is “key”? –played some role?
thinking of Adriaunna whose abductor/killer was given some work by the family.
I do not think that has been excluded to my satisfaction, no.
B
Does not.
B
Not that they would without more evidence, but if they wanted to, could LE name Terri a suspect, due to a failed polygraph? I know poly results cannot be used in court, but can LE use the results to name someone as a suspect?
I guess what I am getting at is why they haven’t named Terri as a suspect? It is repeatedly announced that LE is soooo close to solving the case, with overly-obvious hints that they are close to busting Terri. If they have that much “stuff” on her couldn’t they at least name her as a suspect?
Also, I am curious Blink, if you’ve been contacted by any reporters or witnesses since you posted this article.. any backlash good or bad?
Unless I could quote for the record, I would not be able to comment on that January, but fair question.
B
nothing on Guidestar wrt BKH Foundation since startup 2010 990 irs return, 3 years ago
anyone seen financial disclosures to public elsewhere, say Search expenditures in the last 3 years?
I have only seen the 2009 filing that we all have.
B
I did not see that, but I redacted anyway, no worries Agent Rose
B
I don’t think Desiree thought Terri snapped:
“I think it was very planned,” she said, sitting next to her husband, Medford police detective Tony Young.
Tony Young agreed.
“I absolutely believe that Terri Horman is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance,” he said.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_mother_desiree_y_1.html
Horman, who has not been named a suspect but remains a focus in the investigation, went to live with her parents in Roseburg and hired a prominent defense attorney. She has stayed mute.
Young has not, convinced that Terri Horman is responsible for her son’s disappearance.
“We now have information that shows us that Terri is very capable and most likely hurt him,” she says. “She put it all in writing and we have seen all of it.”
Her husband, Tony Young, who has investigated similar cases of missing children as a Medford police detective, blames Horman, too.
We’ve had a million conversations to get to where we are today,” he says. “It’s hard to talk about.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/05/kyron_hormans_mother_desiree_y_2.html
Maybe she was venting about how Kaine & Desiree never had time to spend with their own son and said something like: *They wouldn’t give a chit if I sold him.* IDK, just speculating on what it could possibly be that was written down and yet no arrest.
***********
In the beginning I think Desiree & Kaine both thought that Terri hid Kyron from them to prove a point. I think they thought Terri was saying to them *you don’t have time for your kid?, well neither do I*. I think that’s what the whole Kyron “is stashed somewhere” thing was about. Then, something was revealed to them by LE that made them actually think Terri may have harmed Kyron. Maybe said something like *sometimes I’d like to kill that kid*.
Whatever it is, it’s not enough to arrest her, so here we are.
Snipped from grasshoppers link, the response to the motion to quash BO’s deposition:
“Wife served a subpoena on Sherriff Robert O’Donnell, commanding him to appear for deposition on July 24, 2013, at 2:00 p.m. The subpoena did not require Sherriff O’Donnell to produce any documents at the time of deposition.
Subsequently, the County filed a motion to quash the subpoena, arguing that ORS 192.501(3) precludes Wife from obtaining public records of “investigatory information complied for law purposes”.
At this time, Wife does not seek to obtain records protected under that statute.
Rather, Wife seeks information arising from the allegations made by Petitioner Kaine Horman (Husband in support of his motion to obtain and renew a Family Abuse Prevention Act (FAPA), in which Husband alleged, in part, that the police provided him “with probable cause to believe” that Wife was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, and that she “attempted to hire someone to murder (Husband).”
***************
(BTW, the word sheriff misspelled is not my work, nor is using the word complied instead of compiled. Sheesh!)
Anywho, here’s my question. I don’t know what the statute ORS 192.501(3) is, but if Kaine Horman has been privy to investigatory documents, why would wife be precluded from the same documents?
Is there some law that says a Wife can’t see them, but a Husband can? I don’t get this.
It is what I have been saying all along- Kaine is not LE. He has no privilege. It means that LE waived it’s right to the public document exclusion by supplying same to a member of the public. There is no doubt in my mind that Kantor would have found similarly and I believe he let them know that and thus why we had an agreement to withdraw the RO.
AND… then.. they would have to admit that LE surreptitiously recorded conversations between Kaine and TMH or Kaine gave permission to bug the house, etc, without TH knowledge or permission- that is an agent of the state, period.
Once LE releases investigative information to a public citizen, it has just effectively said, this information cannot be subject to the “ongoing investigation” exclusions because if it were- they are precluded from telling a private citizen. As I have also said repeatedly, it is going to very, very narrowly carve the scope for FOIA in this case. Which, frankly, is about damn time.
In short, hearsay would come in, and Kaine would have been compelled to testify as to what was the basis for the allegations in the RO- all versions. They have got to be trying to establish a parenting plan and settlement they can agree on as well.
I don’t see that happening, but i think the time is being spent on reviewing proposals and counters.
B
Paula says:
August 22, 2013 at 7:57 am
Rose says:
August 21, 2013 at 11:51 pm
No wonder he’s comfortable with mcso poi
Rose, TY has irritated me from the first time I heard him…and I can just imagine the scene in the house with him educating TMH as to what she should expect of police interrogation procedures. He comes off as a pompous lower level detective and completely out of his element. And I have to wonder just how influential his sharing DY’s opinion of TMH with the case LEOs was in their settling almost immediately on TMH as a suspect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Paula, I have a very different opinion of TY. TY was the first family member to speak at the family interview and he impressed me as a caring, genuinely concerned step-parent to Kyron. In his subsequent interviews, imo, he seemed the same. As a member of LE who cannot be a member of the investIgatory team, I can only imagine how difficult this must be for him. Regarding his role in the family, TY not only educated TMH, but also KH and DY regarding how their lives would be scrutinized during the investigation. That is exactly what any caring family member who is also LE would do under these circumstances.
LE always focuses on family members who were closest to the victim or the last family member to see the victim alive before the crime. If LE has been unable to clear TMH of any involvement, and no other suspect has been arrested, she remains a poi. That said, I seriously doubt that LE has focused only on TMH. We have clear evidence from a press conference that LE gave early in the investigation that they were looking for other “witnesses” who might be involved. Blink has provided even further information from sources that a male may have been involved. I cannot imagine that these sources have sat on this info. Regarding the investigation itself, none of us know what evidence has been uncovered regarding any persons of interest.
Btw, Polygraphs are not conducted in poi’s homes. They are generally conducted in highly controlled environments.
All JMHO. Prayers for Kyron and all who love him.
Okay, my turn, does D.A.D. match the description?
Lol, one of the problems with the question is that there is no way to know if the SZ was wearing any sort of disguise to his normal person. To my knowledge, DAD as I have seen his images would not match, no.
B
@Rose, My thinking is the DEA was knee deep in the steroids, at that time.
Nothing like a bunch of blind drunk witnesses and no physical evidence.
Rose says:
August 21, 2013 at 11:58 pm
Inappropriate on my part but LOL
B
that settles that wrt to DAD, as imo he lacked the mental
organization in this time frame for self-disguise
@GraceintheHills. Agreed he was a caring, genuinely concerned step-parent and husband.
Therefore his professional role should have been set aside, no Horman “teach in” or “live in.”
contaminated the investigation imo.
If you look at what he described as the case of his career where he says he sat in trial sidebyside with
prosecutor, there was not only no physical evidence (expectable on knife weapon, dna bood evidence–says his fight wounds onto vic ), the
ADA used as States’ witness the defendant’s fight co-participant (and probably provocateur) from these drunks’ 8 attack. But bartender said that State’s witness had earlier flashed a knife saying he wanted to slash someone. Defendant may have been immigrant scum & best put away, but not for this murder on this evidence.
On the other hand there were 8 drunk white guys wanting “the Mexican,” not the caucasian placed there with a knife.
As a professional, not a caring stepfather, TY lacks insight.
I respectfully agree with Rose on this, but not because I don’t think TY might be a good investigator- I don’t know.
What I do know is if this is a random oppty-based abduction, he and the other 98% of investigative muscle on this case lack the training and background to work this case as well. Add-in his personal attachment- well, let’s agree it is not a good mix in this case. I have watched his interviews again recently. I was confident he knows what he is doing for the general profile.
B
re:” It means that LE waived it’s right to the public document exclusion by supplying same to a member of the public.”
True, but Bunch didn’t argue this, did he? (waiver of public doc exclusion)
re: “They have got to be trying to establish a parenting plan …. they can agree on as well.”
imo Terri needs to kick ass & insist on shared custody & primary physical as if this hard luck man (his 2 families,
& his sib, of origin; marriage/wife 1; and, the abduction of his son) were not her issue but his. Frankly, she offers the more well-adjusted family system.
I’m saying this not out of deference to or liking for Terri, but it’s
what any stepmother should do wrt to her own child when a
self-absorbed husband tries to stick her with one more of his family’s losses.
Thinking back to Topher’s Horman experiences. and Kristian’s.
i just wanted to say that this is the only blog/forum that is willing to take a hard look at this case and answer the tough questions. sometimes i browse other places and i am sickened at the anti-terri haterade that is flying all over the place. thank god for blink and the critical thinkers/researchers here that provide actual facts and not just what is fed to us from some media sources. you all make me a more critical thinker just by associating with you. must be osmosis through the internet!
What a lovely compliment to posters here. Thank you.
B
I think TMH has 2 options,
sign an “agreement” &
forever have Kiara under Kaine’s primary care
vs
a scorched earth litigation for primary physical
custody and medical/educational decisions,
& imo Bunch isn’t the type.
Scorched earth
= willingness to put James on, & subject James to cross.
= subpoenas of Kristian (molestation history w/in Horman fsmily)
& of Topher (of emotional abused by Horman family members).
=subpoenas of friends &
= redemption of her own dirty laundry (dui).
imo if a person paid her dues & moved on,
and there was only 1 legal historical charge,
idk any husband or wife in that position
would have it count years later in a custody battle.
often the wife goes lite on husband because
real dirty laundry would cost his job & prestige,
which she realizes her child benefits from.
This post is like something scorched in a tablet. READ IT, all.
B
Someone probably already posted this, but it shows the mind set of TY wrt investigations and prosecutions.
snips>
Tony Young has worked as a detective for eight years putting in 20 total years as an officer with Medford Police. He says a juror’s expectation from a case is higher than it used to be.
“I think we have raised the bar in the jury’s mind, ” Young said. He says thanks to shows like CSI people want to see every possible test done in every single case but realistically that doesn’t make sense.
“Most of the time it’s good old fashioned investigation, talking to people,” Young said.
For Young his big career case was the Luis Salas Juarez trial and then re-trial. A massive, multi-person, bar brawl turned into a fatal stabbing.
He says the murder case was made completely off what people said, not the physical evidence.
“That case was largely made on witness identification of the suspect in the case,” Young said. Statements which made the detective positive he had the guy.
Young sat side-by-side with the prosecution team through out the two trials listening to them explain why in some cases there just isn’t DNA or fingerprints to prove what happened. Evidence which now days almost all juries expect to hear before they turn in a guilty verdict.
http://www.ktvl.com/shared/news/top-stories/stories/ktvl_vid_6491.shtml
erose says:
August 22, 2013 at 5:10 am
I just noticed that the account of Mark DeWitt… (snipped)
http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-777-kyron_horman_update_one_tipsters_startling_suspici.html
***
This story always made me wonder if a ransom went unpaid.
Long time lurker, infrequent poster here.
I am a local to the area, not the school specifically. Yes, rumors are everywhere. The one that I’ve not heard considered was that Ky’s body was found during the search at Sauvie’s Island. Rumor continues that media was told not to report to rule out callers with phony leads.
I have a friend in MCSO SAR. They frequently search the SI area for evidence in Kyron’s case.
I believe that was considered. What I do know, is that it is just that- a rumor. There is to date, not a single piece of physical evidence in Kyron’s disappearance and his remains would certainly qualify. Does anyone think the largest search effort in OR history with 3 pending legal matters and a struggling LE and DA is going to break the law and keep his recovery a secret from even his parents and the public in the hopes that some tipster, unaware as well, is going to break the case that is over 3 years old?
Come on. Other than that, welcome to BOC.
B
GOOD STUFF. VERY GOOD.
____
“We have been successful in acquiring 2 non-profit agencies to help with our search, currently scheduled for Labor Day weekend.
A big Thank You to Brad Dennis with Klaas Kids to agreeing to help coordinate our search, as well as bringing in additional resources.
Another huge Thank You to Wendy Kessinger with ISC K-9 Forensics and her entire team for agreeing to bring out her dog teams.
If you would like to volunteer to help with the search an email has to be sent to justice4kyron@yahoo.com for each individual interested. Please understand law enforcement will be receiving copies of all the forms filled out and that we are the only source for that form.
Requirements to volunteer:
*Must be 18 years of age or older.
*Physically able to handle rough terrain.
*No major medical conditions that would limit your ability to handle the terrain.
Thank you to all of you who have donated and supported us over the past 3 years in the search to find our Kyron. Your donations have helped tremendously in bringing these agencies in, and we wouldn’t have been able to do it without you.
To our Ky:
We promise we will find you.
We will never stop.
http://www.gofundme.com/kyronhorman
I support your optimism and advocacy wpg.
B
I don’t think D.A.D. had anything to do with this abduction. Reports from family and friends paint a very clear picture of a man who was descending into psychosis. He was so paranoid and delusional around the time of his alleged crime, that I cannot even imagine he could muster the presence of mind to confidently enter a school and snatch a young boy.
When I first came across Kyron’s story, I was convinced someone in the school or associated with the school had abducted him. After the alleged MFH emerged, my focus shifted to TMH and an accomplice. Now, I just don’t know. What is most unbearable for me (and I am sure, the rest of you) is LE’s silence. I never thought that we would still be here after three long years with absolutely nothing….no resolution…no Kyron. I am not saying that LE has nothing in the way of evidence – I think they do. In fact, I think LE opened a few cans of worms and perhaps Pandora’s box duing their parallel investigations, and my suspicion is that some of this may have been more than they bargained for. I certainly understand that they cannot reveal info that is case sensitive..but, come on. WHY aren’t the families whose children attend Skyline marching up to MCSO en masse and demanding some answers?
Remember the time KH said that LE told him this investigation would be more of a marathon than a sprint. What exactly did LE tell him that made him form that opinion??
JMO. Thanks for lenting me vent. I enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts; I just wish LE would give us more information.
Grace- very well stated with compassion, respect and advocacy.
B