Kyron Horman Exclusive Report: New Suspect And Botched Investigation Rumors Abound- Terri Horman Prepares To Fight For Couples Daughter Following Seclusion
If you are reading this and have followed the Kyron Homan disappearance coverage since he vanished from Skyline School on June 4th 2010, you know my coverage and commentary has focused on the macro analysis of the case details- both publicly available and via developed sources. This report contains newly released information known to law enforcement. It’s contents, to include reader commentary and moderation response, may not be reproduced or copied without express written consent by it’s author in accordance with applicable copyright law.
*TONIGHT* LIVE ON THE DANA PRETZER SHOW- S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief discusses the Kyron Horman Case status LIVE at 9PM EST.
Click Here To Listen To Podcast
Last Week’s Meet And Greet
On Tuesday July 30th, the attorneys representing Terri Moulton Horman, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young attended a series of case hearings. Not held in chambers as announced, but public guests were barred.
On the docket- Desiree Young’s “stay” status of the $10 million dollar civil tort action brought against Terri Horman and the dissolution (divorce and custody) litigation brought by Kaine Horman, Terri’s estranged husband. Until July 26th, there were additional hearings and status conferences scheduled for the recently renewed Freedom From Abuse and Protection Act (FAPA) motion to contest and compel depositions in the restraining order prohibiting Terri Horman from contact with the couple’s daughter Kiara, now 5 years old. Horman has not seen her daughter since June 2010 despite several attempts through counsel to arrange parenting time. Engel, one of the attorneys representing Kaine Horman, argues that the FAPA case is consolidated with the divorce action, and therefore stayed.
Peter Bunch, counsel for Terri Horman, argues that there is no consolidation order.
Non attorney’s still do not understand how the initial proceeding to renew the FAPA order occurred when the plaintiff failed to file the required motion and accompanying affidavits in advance as required, or even serve the respondent’s attorneys until ordered to do so by Judge Henry Kantor once the hearing commenced. Kantor ordered the renewal anyway. I will let the goodly Oregon bar members weigh in on that anomaly.
That was then. This is now.
As of July 31st, the FAPA restraining order was expired and a civil no contact order was put in its place. The dissolution matter (divorce) stay has been lifted and Desiree Young announced she was instructing her attorney’s to withdraw the $10 million dollar suit financed by public donations.
On the same front steps where Atty Rosenthal announced that they were launching the suit to peel the onion that is to include law enforcement, and to “make Terri Horman talk” was withdrawn in similar fashion.
However, on this occasion, Multnomah County District Attorney Rod Underhill was not spotted on the steps observing. Rosenthal and Young indicated the recent appearance and testimony of former object of compulsion to testify, DeDe Spicher, as well as information that the investigative case file necessary (their words) to prove their claims would not be forthcoming. In an article analyzing the suit appearing on BOC it was predicted that Ms. Young would face possible countersuit and associated fees should the suit continue as filed.
Attorneys for both Kaine and Terri appeared before Multnomah County Circuit Family law Judge Susan Svetkey on August 1, 2013. Judge Svetkey is Houze’s wife. The docket information for that hearing has not yet been entered into the file as of this publication.
The only comment about the withdrawal of the civil tort action by Stephen Houze:
“The lawsuit was unfounded and lacking in legal merit,” Houze said. “One can only hope that the dismissal of this meritless lawsuit receives the same degree of media scrutiny as was given to its filing.”
In recent interviews, Kaine Horman has intimated that his wife has expressed her desire to help find Kyron, or at least contribute to excluding herself as a possible suspect. He also admitted that he no longer has any communication with Desiree Young, Kyron’s mother. He sometimes wonders what law enforcement is actually doing on his son’s case. This is a firm departure from how Mr. Horman initially retained his six figure attorney Laura Rackner of Gearing, Rackner, and Engel & McGrath. Ms. Rackner appears to have promulgated her duties of late to her partner, Brett Engel.
This all seemed to start when formidable and well known tort Attorney Mark Wagner came out of retirement to appear as counsel for Terri Horman. Wagner and Rackner know each other, and Rackner is no stranger to LE –based dissolution entanglements.
In fact, Wagner represented her and her previous firm successfully.
Bagel Finagle
Kaine Horman’s attorney Laura Rackner is no stranger to law enforcement infused litigation. She is a former prosecutor for Oregon’s department of Justice, The U.S. Department of Justice, and Office of Chief Counsel. Ms. Rackner has specificity in Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) casework.
Born in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Laura received her B.S. in 1979 and her J.D. in 1984, both from the University of Oregon.
Prior to entering private practice, Laura served as deputy district attorney in the Marion County District Attorney’s Office; assistant attorney general in the Oregon Department of Justice; and on the staff of the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Chief Counsel, Drug Enforcement Administration.
Record Scratch.
Martin Rob Cagan, The bagel king and according to him, a supreme target of a police shakedown at the hands of his former spouse’s attorneys was the litigious sort.
In fact, this may be how Atty Wagner decides to come out of retirement and become part of Terri Horman’s defense team while the civil suit was active.
Wagner’s firm represented Ms. Rackner in a suit filed by Rob Cagan in which he sued the Dueshete Police Department, A partner in the firm representing Caroleen Vanhoomissen, the suit (or ramblings of a very angry divorcee) alleges that the firm and its lawyers facilitated the difficulties of Mr. Cagan utilizing law enforcement sources directly by the attorneys was dismissed.
Ms. Vanhoomissen, the sister of Judge Vanhoomissen is also the owner of a horse farm in Bend, Oregon. Blinkoncrime was unable to verify if it was the Bend horse farm searched in the early days of the investigation for Kyron.
Attorney Rackner’s prior working relationship with the DEA, the very agency that supplied the undercover officer in the failed sting involving Horman landscaper Rudy Sanchez begs the question- Did Rackner use her contacts and/or credentials to facilitate a surreptitious ruse to gain favor for her client in anticipation of his wife’s potential arrest?
Kaine is on record that law enforcement informed him they had probable cause to arrest Terri. What is not on record, is what came first- the referral to Rackner.
I just want to do what I can to help law enforcement
Seems like an odd comment coming from a family attorney with a background as a prosecutor working with the DEA, which agency subsequently becomes involved in the case- or initially led to her representation- the chicken or the egg facts remain unclear.
The ex parte and originally sealed restraining order did not exclude Terri Horman from the marital home. Was this an oversight of a very seasoned family attorney or was the basis of the now defunct restraining order as provided to Kaine Horman and Laura Rackner by law enforcement effectively invalidated by Terri Horman calling 911?
Is the reason that Atty Engel seems to have taken over representation of Kaine Horman due to the fact that these actions could render Ms. Rackner a witness in her client’s case as opposed to his Attorney?
In the motions and subsequent hearing scheduled for July 30th, the only available arguments outside of the parties agreement is to contest the basis for the FAPA order- or, the allegation Kaine Horman has made within his affidavits more than once, that his wife tried to hire “our landscaper” to kill him, and that she is being investigated for “violent crimes.”
The outcome?
The order was converted to a civil no-contact order which has not yet been added to the file for public review.
Desiree and Kaine’s respective camps both claimed “protecting the integrity of the investigation” was their only interest although the ONLY 2 witnesses who were summoned for deposition by Terri Horman’s lawyers were- the lead investigator of Kyron’s investigation for 18 months- Bobby John O’Donnell and Kaine Horman.
Back To School
Skyline School, the International Baccalaureate candidate who announced the IB open house format weeks earlier via take home handouts to its students and also by displaying the event on its marquis has never been declared a crime scene. Although in nearly every legal support brief or news coverage article Terri Horman was dubbed “the last person to be seen with Kyron Horman” or more recently by Desiree Young as “Kyron was last seen by someone who cared about him at 8:45 am” absolutely no witness account or Science Fair insider was known publicly to dispute such accounts.
Until now.
“Once I learned all that was going on that same day, in that same school, I did not understand why I was being told that Terri Horman was the suspect, and one other person… It never made sense to me that they knew Kyron was seen with someone else besides his stepmother after she left, that they seemed to not even consider another theory.” (*Editor’s Note*- parts of the source’s quote have been redacted as they would reveal identity of witnesses in an ongoing criminal investigation)
Electric Slide?
Sometime after Terri Horman left the school with her daughter Kiara in tow, she was captured on store video prior to Kyron’s exit from Skyline School. It is believed Kyron was last seen between 9:05 and 9:20 AM.
The following is a summation of multiple direct witness accounts, edited to protect witness identification only.
“…He must have been standing behind me because I only recall hearing him ask if the boy could help him bring some stuff in from his truck. I thought it was (edited) until he looked up at him and then he looked at Ms. Matthews for approval and she nodded her head yes in response. They walked out of the South entrance together and I do not recall seeing either of them again.
Classroom 1 Property of www.blinkoncrime.com
(Editor’s Note: It is believed that Desiree and Kaine’s comments about concern that instruction they gave him last year about listening to staff “came back to haunt them.” They have never acknowledged they were told about this witness account but a source close to www.blinkoncrime.com has confirmed they were informed but not given a witness description.
www.blinkoncrime.com has confirmed the EXIF data on the image includes the timestamp of June 4 2010 at 8:43AM PST.
Backstory OR Backdrop?
Among the peers of Kyron Horman in attendance on June 4th, were some children whose parents may have been granted access via the open house format, although documents filed with the school and LE would preclude the parents from removing them.
In fact, the mother of a chief witness in this case was arrested that very day for attempting to fill a script that did not belong to her, in a pharmacy that Terri Horman allegedly also visited that morning.
Another child whose parents lost custody due to very long histories with substance abuse and associated criminal behavior had the additional possible misfortune of closely resembling both Kaine and Terri Horman.
Non Custodial Parent Red Long Hair
It is unknown whether either parent took the opportunity to visit the school that day, but they were not included on the published list. While barred legally from removing their child from the school they could not be barred from a publicly announced invitational. There was no ID checks or sign-in sheets for non-volunteer guests.
In an unrelated twist, the child’s Father was found deceased in front of a Portland residence in April 2012. The name of the child and Kyron’s schoolmate, guardians and parents are being intentionally withheld for this article.
Sovereignty In lieu Of..
Among the many unanswered questions in Kyron’s disappearance: Why hasn’t the school been held accountable? He disappeared on their watch- with a concise standard of care duty and plan.
What really happened?
There is no dispute that Kyron had an exchange that resulted in a teacher nodding her approval that Kyron assist a man in his stated purpose- to bring things in from his truck. There is no dispute that Kyron was last seen at Skyline School. There is no dispute that both Kyron’s parents expressed concern that last year’s discipline involving instruction on being a better listener may have come back to haunt them. They said so.
What may be in dispute, for sure, is how accurate the list of attendees at the Skyline School of June 4th, 2010 is.
As an example, one witness told Editor In Chief, S. Christina Stoy that a young male former student said hello to Susan Hall and when asked by a parent who the lad was a few days later, she said she was not sure. He is NOT on the list.
When another parent subsequently asked Ms. Hall who the student was following Kyron’s disappearance to verify he was on the published list- she responded she could not remember. Ms. Hall was the Skyline Administrative staff who contacted 911 upon speaking to Terri Horman and learning Kyron was not on the bus. Hall subsequently contacted Desiree Young. She did this while the Horman’s were on their way back to the school to see if Kyron might have thought he was being picked up that day as opposed to riding the bus or some other sort of snafu.
According to the MCSO, the school records that could assist the investigation were never requested to be preserved by investigators and as a result were deleted.
So why was the Skyline School never named as a defendant in the previously pending litigation filed by Kyron’s mother Desiree Young?
The reason may lie in the recreational designation utilized on June 4th, 2010.
According to the National Policy and Legal Analysis Network (napl) it may be a simple question of whether Kyron disappeared during the “recreational” portion of the program.
Napl’s guidance to lawyer’s advising Oregon schools can be read here. Although the overall plan is relative to an obesity initiative, it would include research and advice on any school recreational or regularly scheduled event. Please tell me Cogen does not factor into this.
The following are excerpts from the report:
…”Absent special liability protection, school districts and other providers of recreational facilities have the legal duty to take reasonable precautions to prevent injury. What is reasonable is very context specific and depends on many things: most important, the nature of the harm, the difficulty of preventing it, and generally accepted standards in the management of recreational facilities…”
…” The only immunity Oregon grants to public bodies, which include school districts,2 is discretionary government immunity.3 Discretionary government immunity applies to choices “among alternative public policies by persons to whom responsibility for such policies have been delegated.”4 To fall under the protection of this doctrine, Oregon courts have said, the choice must result from the exercise of judgment and involve a public policy or nonroutine day-to-day activity.
…” In summary, Oregon immunizes schools for policy choices its officials make, but it holds schools liable for breaches of duty that occur in carrying out those policy choices…”
…” The recreational user statute should therefore provide strong protection to Oregon schools seeking to avoid liability arising from after-hours outdoor recreational programs on school grounds. Applying this statute to indoor recreational activities, however, is much riskier, although the case law does not preclude such a strategy.
Regular School Day- Changes Things
…” In Oregon, schools owe students a duty to “supervise at all times the conduct of children on school grounds and to enforce those rules and regulations necessary to their protection. . . . The standard of care imposed upon school personnel in carrying out the duty to supervise the conduct of students is that degree of care which a person of ordinary prudence, charged with comparable duties, would exercise under the same circumstances.”37
Is the issue of liability to Skyline School relegated to what time Kyron was abducted, presuming he was abducted, as is believed?
Very possibly.
As we know, the school opened early the morning of June 4th, 2010, as was displayed on the school’s marquis at least 2 weeks prior. Without particular knowledge of when the suspect responsible for Kyron’s disappearance entered the school, and under what auspice, one is left to the timeline of Kyron’s activities as juxtaposed with the start of the school day. As a regular standard of care, one could argue that begins with a student getting on the bus, if a passenger, on their regular route. What if a bus passenger is attending the “event” outside of the bus transportation? Admittedly, it seems moot inasmuch as neither one of Kyron’s parents have filed suit against the school or named them as having any negligence or liability. That said, it remains a possibility in the event Kyron is found.
There is no question Kyron was seen after 8:45AM- which is the time that a regularly scheduled bus arrives- which would ring the bell, so to speak, on the normal school day.
To be Continued:
Roid Noise And The Boys In Blue- Publishing Thursday August 8. Preview Discussion Tonight on THE DANA PRETZER SHOW.
Ellie Sanders contributed research to this report.
Jacqueline Beaufort, contributing editor
Image retouching courtesy of Klaasend
Previous Coverage:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/
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1,039 Comments
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duh. what is JQ?
cauldrons, all kinds.
B
“Husband and the police have perpetuated the dissemination of inaccurate information about the circumstances of the disappearance of Kyron Horman.”
Blink,
The above was a written statement made in a Declaration by Mr. Bunch . . . a Declaration signed by Mr. Bunch on August 15, 2013 legally indicating the veracity of the contents.
What verified evidence would he have to present to the Court in support of his above stated allegation? For example, would TMH’s legal team have interviewed the same witnesses you said you have interviewed and/or identified?
Thank you.
Great Question.
I do not know what his prima facie was, or is, but I know he has one or it would never have made that declaration.
I suspect they all know, and so does Kaine and Bobby O’Donnell.
B
I turly hope that if a GAL is appointed, and agree it should happen and hope it does, that they are not married or worked with or for any judges, LE, reporter or any lawyers associated with this case…heck I hope they never lived on or near Skyline BLVD…
I will check on that- if that is correct that is my bad and I appolly.
B
@MBS. imo the diff is PsyDs are trained as clinical practitioners, while PhD programs emphasize the science & research behind psychological testing & its clinical interpretation. We saw on Jody, when testing is significantly at issue in psychological interp of personality disorders, a PhD is handy rather than being primarily a therapist by training.
@Ode. or attend same synagogue
Troll Lite,
I found your comments and questions to be respectfully stated and asked, and Blink’s reply to you equally respectful.
Such is the Blink on Crime I have known from years ago.
At the end I KNOW we all want the same thing- to find Kyron. The difficulty in that is building the bridge between advocacy and ego, that puts us on the same side.
I have decided that we all need to consider ourselves interns of our lives and adopt that perspective.
I appreciate you wpg.
B
posted earlier tonight by Kelly Davidson Ramirez:
Thank you so much for the outpouring of support for our upcoming search. At this point we will not be accepting any more volunteers. For all of you who will be volunteering please check your emails for an update from me.
Thank you so much to our 2 main non-profit agencies that are coordinating our search, Brad Dennis and his team at Klaas Kids and Wendy Kessinger with her dog teams at K-9 Forensics.
To Kyron as always:
We promise we will find you!
We will never stop!
http://www.gofundme.com/kyronhorman
____
It sounds like the number of needed volunteer searchers has been met and the search is a go.
My deep respect to Desiree Young for her love and courage to find her son, no matter what.
Dang, this is so sad.
ps
Back at’cha, Blink.
I share your support of Desiree as Kyron’s Mom in any endeavor, whether I agree with it’s prudence or not.
B
vw- I did not understand that comment so I did not post.
B
Logan Storm that’s my guess
Been reading all you posts today and thinking of Kyron
Bless Him
Malty- you were on my mind today so it is nice to see you.
B
@Truth,
vw, if the media would link to the documents, as they should, since they are posting parts of them, then IMO you wouldn’t be being bothered. Shame on the media for not telling the WHOLE story. Wasn’t it KATU, who used to provide all the links to the court docs? Too bad they quit. Like I said upthread, why has WW dropped this case?
NO kidding Truth. Remember that Declaration I found from Bunch last year…that included transcripts of his attending the 2012 FAPA renewal to question Kaine’s “proof” and tell Judge M. that it was all heresay.
The judge did nothing to encourage Bunch to contest.
And the media did NOTHING to let the public know he did. Even though they wrote about the renewal.
WW dropped the case in its entirety in August, 2010. They prolly made an editorial decision not to play the game of “team-player”. Although the did investigate the OT abuses of the MCSO and DA’s office.
I sure HOPE that issue will come up again once this is over.
Meantime….I think it is SO IMPORTANT that we do not lose sight of the FACT that an inept investigative agency, with the help of a questionable “father” can TAKE a baby from its mother’s arms and legally hold her captive while breaking the mom-baby bond in order to elicit a confession from said mom. Whether she did anything illegally or not. And, And …… can toss aside any REAL investigation into any other potential suspect….thereby treating Kyron as collateral damage too.
@Troll Lite
I am not sure why anyone who would come here and take the time to actually read the posts, would believe that none of us believe that Terri Moulton Horman might not have played some sort of part in Kyron’s abduction.
To this day, after follwing this case some 3+years later, I do not know. What I do know is what we’ve been “fed” is most probably BS. (MOHO) Ya’ know the ol’ saying, keep ‘em like mushroom, in the dark and fed bs. What boggles me, is what on earth did LE think they would accomplish by this “investigative tactic”. No wonder people are afraid to come forward and get involved. There is only one interview where I decided Kaine Horman may not know where his child is, and in that interview, he **finally** makes a plea to people to come forward, and to not be afraid of the consequences, because he says ***Kyron is afraid***. I have to say that up until then, I thought KH knew exactly where his son was.
If we were to make a list of what LE has actually told us, it would be very slight indeed:
1. Terri Horman has been fully cooperative.
2. Kyron was seen last sometime in the late morning hours.
3. Ooopps, Terri Horman was the last ***known*** person to be seen with Kryon and it was 8:45.
4. Terri says she left the school between 8:45 & 9:00 am and last saw Kyron as he was heading to class arund 8:45.
5. We cannot rule out stranger-to-stranger abduction, but there is no need to be alarmed. (Or some such)
5. Terri Horman is not a suspect at this time and has been fully cooperative.
6. Terri Horman has been cooperative at times, and at times she has not. (Yeah, like after she hired an attorney who informed her to STFU.)
7. We have interviewed 60 persons of interest.
8. NO ONE has been cleared.
Gosh, seriously, I know I must be forgetting something else, but thinking back about this, they’ve never made mention of failing lie detector tests, no mention of cell phones pinging hither-nither, actually, come to think of it, they even said in regard to the landscaper sting: “that information did not come from us”. Hmmmmm? So where did it come from? I must be forgetting something huge that LE said about the suspicion that Terri was involved in Ky’s disappearance. Somebody, anybody, post it: LE said: ????????????????????
Seriously, I’m not trying to be defensive (of what?) or on anybody’s freakin’ team, but why do so many people believe Terri is guilty, beyond a doubt, without due process? Guilty of…..what?
Ya’ll are gonna think I’m nuts probably, but IMHO, once a LE officer, and that would be TY, said he was 100% sure (“without a doubt”) it was Terri, the majority of the public didn’t bother to look anywhere else. And…..that bothers me…..a lot. I said this very early on, and I still think it could come true, *IF* Terri Horman had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance, it will be TY’s and DY’s actions that end up letting her go scott free. AMOO
Who am I to say? Well, nobody, just a nobody who wishes the Skyline Science Fair would have been a successful, but uneventful day. Kyron deserves to be home, and the people who love him deserve the right to either grieve or rejoice.
Blink, I just want to say thank you for being relentless and not ending any effort over these years (years!) to help Kyron. This blog and all its intent reminds me of the persistence and stamina of LE in my hometown who never stopped working the murder case of a 15 year old boy we all knew. He was murdered after a sexual assault on the night of July 4, 1992, after the end of a fireworks and carnival bash that our town had enjoyed for 20 years. I still see his high school picture with the slight build, the young fresh face, the braces, and the whacky hair. I was on my ambulance base duty the morning they found his body.
I have always had my suspicions about KH, as you know, and you allowed me to vent those suspicions here. And kudos to all others who participate here as well — none of you reacted to my statements that questioned KH’s role in this awful story in any way other than to either genuinely and politely disagree, or, to support the idea that something was not quite right about him and whole story he presented.
As this case suddenly seems to be producing steam via the divorce/custody aspect, I am offering my Jewish prayer for Kyron:
May God bless you and keep you. May God make His face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you. May God lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.
TY kindly Nelmel
B
I want to add a little something to Southernmom’s post.
If anyone has any tips or even something about that day that just did not make sense and keeps sorta’ stickin’ in the back of your mind, call the tip line. If you are scared to get involved, as Kaine Horman suggested you might be (still wonder why someone told him they were or where he heard that), or worried about the local LE, call/or email the National Center for Exploited and Missing Children. http://www.missingkids.com/home
I can personally tell you that they are responding to calls, it will not be waste of time. In the beginning it may have been a case of overload, but they ARE interested in any pertinent tips, even those that don’t involve TMH. (Imagine that)
Some nights I look up into the moonlit sky and instead of E.T. Phone Home, I think: Kyron Phone Home. Good night all.
Rose says:
August 28, 2013 at 9:15 am
Since a cauldron-stirrer opined on OLive comment the 3 evaluators Bunch selected were chosen for a Particular Reason, obviously intimating bad things about litigant, I went in search of their bios & found no basis for comment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me: Here’s what I would want to know about the psychologists Bunch has suggested: How many times have these psychologists been retained by clients Bunch represents? What was the psychologist’s recommendation to the court? What was the final disposition of each case? Lawyers who work in family law time tend to collect psychologists who they feel will give their client a favorable recommendation. When I was working at a previous venue back in the early 1990′s, the ethics violations had reached such a fevered pitch over in family court, that many of the judges suddenly decided to resign. It took years for the community to trust that system again.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Rose says:
August 29, 2013 at 6:09 pm
Rose, are you saying that Det. Tony Young and the prosecutor deliberately withheld exculpatory evidence from the defense in that case?
Rose says:
August 29, 2013 at 7:26 pm
@MBS. imo the diff is PsyDs are trained as clinical practitioners, while PhD programs emphasize the science & research behind psychological testing & its clinical interpretation. We saw on Jody, when testing is significantly at issue in psychological interp of personality disorders, a PhD is handy rather than being primarily a therapist by training.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nowadays, courts recognize PsyDs and PhDs as experts in the field of psychology without a bat of an eyelash. A friend of mine who is a PsyD has written several textbooks, performs competency and sanity evals for the courts, teaches at a University, and see private patients in her spare time. My PhD friend, who was once a well know Archeologist works in the state system as an evaluator and a treat
Oops….posted too soon.
conclusion to post August 30, 2013 at 1:06AM
Me: …works in the state system as an evaluator, and treats private patients.
There used to be a bias against PsyDs with some believing they were less qualified than PhDs to perform all types of psychological services. That bias does not exist anymore in my state’s forensic system.
Just read a ton of posts. My quick thoughts are; Malty, we love and miss you here. NelMel, I won’t think you’re all the way better until you start throwing spaghetti at the wall again, WPG, Godspeed on the search. I think the difference between us and the other sites is we have a deeper understanding of what 5th amendment rights might mean to an innocent person.
There seems to be a lack of understanding with the case in general, and now the evals, that only a guilty person would refuse to speak when they are the de facto suspect in a serious case. There are five clauses to the 5th amendment, but I think most people who think TH is guilty are stuck on the self incrimination clause, while the right to due process clause is equally as important.
Due Process Clause
The guarantee of due process for all citizens requires the government to respect all rights, guarantees, and protections afforded by the U.S. Constitution and all applicable statutes before the government can deprive a person of life, liberty, or property. Due process essentially guarantees that a party will receive a fundamentally fair, orderly, and just judicial proceeding. While the Fifth Amendment only applies to the federal government, the identical text in the Fourteenth Amendment explicitly applies this due process requirement to the states as well.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fifth_amendment
Instead of outright denying TH of her 14th amendment rights, it would appear that LE has colluded with KH to use the family court system to circumvent due process. Guilty or innocent, we still have to follow the law, since none of us know the truth, and we have an expectation that those that uphold the law, follow procedure so that we are assured our rights are not diminished and in the event law enforcement is wrong a judge and jury will preside.
TH has not been indicted. In three years. So we wonder, “What if…” What if this woman did not take Kyron? And, any jury would be required to give her that same consideration.
Great Points erose
B
Well, I didn’t exactly mean “in the event law enforcement is wrong a judge and jury will preside.” What I meant to say is that LE can make mistakes and even have bias, so we have a judicial process.
Anyway, my point is IMO, Houze is not going to let his client talk without her due process and people are incorrectly interpreting that as guilt. That is where BOC differs from other sites. Whew. Sorry, that took me 3 posts, but I think I got it out.
One more. That is not to say she is not guilty, but exercising her rights is not an indication of her guilt. I know everyone that posts here gets the point, I just really hope that others could understand.
Now, after reading this article, it is obvious that TH did not physically remove Kyron from the school. That is reasonable doubt to her involvement in a courtroom, so I’m guessing if LE cannot produce her connection to the man that took Kyron, and/or her motive for doing so, then what other evidence could possibly be provided to meet the burden? And if they have met the burden, she would be indicted, so why are people insisting she is guilty? I get how she *could* be guilty, but I don’t get how can people be so sure she is.
Disneyland in Beaverton, OR.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Neighbor-of-accused-child-rapist-it-was-like-disneyland-at-steven-rockett-house-221541081.html
@wpg. My thinking is always opened to the new by your incisive questions & observations.
My guess was volunteer cutoff was based on “timing”, to “process” the paperwork
Kelly kept referring to, as the search is labor day weekend.
@ Grace. http://www.ktvl.com/shared/news/top-stories/stories/ktvl_vid_6491.shtml?wap=0
a white witness who’d had 12 beers, showed knife to band member & said he wanted to slash http://t.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111008/NEWS/110080323&template=tabletart
other 7white witnesses were drunk & violently assaultive, attacking as a group.
this level of drunkenness & behavior would not have been credible as witnesses to a fender bender. especially if the alternate culprit drunken witness had just shown his car to a band member & said “I really want to ram someone.”
no physical evidence (that’s impossible in this case imo)
even a if he was an slimball, evidence is nsf for conviction, and in fact nsf for Det Tony to charge, if defendant were white imo.
not the case to argue witnesses alone with no physical evidence warrants conviction.
http://www.ojd.state.or.us/records/sccalendar.nsf/b29dd44d01dffea088256c91005b3a5b/09ce6b91540a1fb288257714007108bd?OpenDocument
“Later, during trial, the band member and Russell, both of whom were state witnesses, testified in a way that defendant asserted “opened the door” to admission of the evidence as impeachment evidence. The trial court ruled that the evidence was not proper impeachment evidence. …..”
I have not looked for Supreme Court opinion but can be found here. http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/Pages/OpinionsSC.aspx
In my opinion only, any damn fool ever in law school Crim law 101 knows the State opened the door to impeachment of witnesses evidence which this Judge denied and for which the conviction was rightfully overturned. Let the Appellate Courts take care of Judges. Trial 2 venue should have been changed. Imo the Gang of 8 were likely goid ol Medford boys.
My problem is with Tony thinking this was a great case of his with 8 blindly drunk assaultive witnesses, along racial lines, with a more likely culprit, and no physical evidence which imo in this fight was impossible if the Det. looked for it.
Do I think Tony goes by his gut feelings in cases? well yes. he said so in Horman case.
Was that responsible in Juarez? No.
@Grace. One PsyD is not board certified. Another has disgruntled parents commenting, but as to their particular facts, he formed opinions without critical collateral info. I think whether one choses a PsyD or a PhD depends not only on the resume experience but on the nature of the case & the criticality (a word?) of the neuropsych testing and its interp. I submit in this case, it’s vitally important, and should not be in the hands of a primary clinician. iirc I felt the better such witness in the Jody case was nevertheless very weak in testing, interp, & diagnosis based on testing. She just looked good by comparison.
All of these 3 tho seem regularly used by the local Bar & held in high esteem and to be the result of no Bunch hidden agenda. Imo a GAL should weigh in. Were I the GAL, Loveland’s education & experience are the resume leader like the SST to a biplane.
I have always easily bought Blink’s Kaine is not involved.
The concern now is wrt Kiara.
At first I thought comments on OLive putting in a Powll mindset were ludicrous.
On reflection on his statements & behavior, not so sure. Kiara needs cps involvement and a GAL yesterday.
He needs psychological by a seasoned PhD stat.
See 1884-1987 on Loveland resume.
Of this quality, not a primary clinician eho has a Court eval business.
having looked back, I think wrt to highly complicated cases where a personality disorder impinges on parenting (collaboration with other parent & detailed attention to child needs ), an evaluator’s education & experience wrt to personally administering, and interpreting, standard neuropsych tests is a watershed. This is not merely clinical competence & collateral interviews. Many of us have the latter, but not the former.
btw, my 6 year work experience in a Federal mental hospital was that both PhD and PsyD team members would rather cut their throats than do a full battery of neuropsych tests. I can’t remember one going to that guilluatine willingly.
It’s tedious and not their first love, which is therapy, and anyway generally a fine diagnosis adequate to mediate & prescribe is already evident from case & treatment history.
A willingness to personally neuropsych test (not a supervisee intern or sub-employee)
is imo an indicia of a Court-testifying business.
correction:
medicate, not mediate
(cursing again iphone autocorrect)
Malty – Regarding Logan Storm – where I get hung-up on him is the notion that folks at Skyline would have likely recognized him, no? He was a local educator, probably known to the other teachers, at least in passing, I would think. As the list of attendees was being assembled, I think his name (or at least a reference to “that teacher from such-and-such school”) would have been raised….but of course, nothing makes sense here. IMO
@NelMel. wrt “May God bless you and keep you. May God make His face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you. May God lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.”
A beautiful rendition by John Rutter is on Bryn Terfel Simple Gifts,”
which gets me thru PA Turnpike west.
@Troll lite, adding to my post above, about things LE has actually said. This actually came from Desiree & Kaine, but it is pertinent. In one interview Kaine & Desiree were both asked by the reporter if either of them ever heard LE refer to Terri as “a suspect”. Both of them answered “No.”.
I can look for the link if you want.
Blink always think of you also
I think saying this group all think the same is really off
I never saw so many with a common goal and different views work so hard to find a small child
You are a great group
What a convoluted effed up mess. Only second to finding Kyron and justice being served for his abduction is this: If Terri Horman had nothing to do with the danger that befell this boy and the bios, school district, investigators, and media have all systematically led the public to believe she did then may she sue each one to high heaven and have her name fully cleared and restored.
And if Terri is completely innocent then I will never look at what I’ve thought of as reality the same ever again because so many people will have had to tell half truths and outright lies for this to be the case. Talk about a conspiracy!
I knew Kaine was shady after the texts between Cook and Terri were made public but I supported him because I believed he had legitimate information that Terri was, at minimum, an accomplice in Kyron’s fate. Now I’m feeling a little hinky about all the back door business between media, schools, LE,(even the courts?) etc…
Mostly I’m super pleased Terri’s attorneys have finally decided to fight back because that may enable the bottleneck to break open and allow for a furtherance of the investigation.
Maybe now the feds will step in if there has been wrongdoing on the part of local LE.
posted hours ago . . .
“K-9 Forensics, Wendy Kessinger and her awesome search team have landed in Oregon to bring Kyron Horman home! The K-9 Team is ready to do what they do best, and in this case it is to bring Kyron back home to the family where he belongs and is so very much loved and missed. A big shout out to all those that will be volunteering there time and resources to help this search be successful. Thank you for having such an awesome community to support the search. Send out prayesrfor the family and the Team! This kiddo will come home!”
https://www.facebook.com/K.9Forensics?filter=1
I do not know of a certified search team, to include canines, that has ever promised the return of a target, ever.
I have no words about how grossly irresponsible that is.
“This kiddo will come home.” Seriously. Wth are these people thinking?
B
I read this comment on a blog today.
@Blink is this statement true
Statistically speaking, when a young girl disappears, the majority of the time it’s a family member or someone the family knows that is responsible, but when a young boy disappears, nearly 90% of the time, it’s a stranger.
-snip
My kids go to Skyline elemntary, and Kyron rode the school bus with my daughter. I am not convinced that the step mother did it, although, her behavior immediately after he vanished was odd. The FBI special task force was here from Washington DC the very next morning, early. My daughter was interviewed by police two or three times at our house, and then had to go testify for the grand jury. It was a really stressful time for the whole community. Statistically speaking, when a young girl disappears, the majority of the time it’s a family member or someone the family knows that is responsible, but when a young boy disappears, nearly 90% of the time, it’s a stranger. The response by the FBI, and some other circumstances, make me think that someone else snatched him.
Absolutely false. There is no such sourceable statistic.
B
B
Was that REALLY DS who was joining in these discussions, or was it a fake DS writing in? Just curious…
37.DeDe Spicher says:August 29, 2013 at 11:43 am
Rank amateur cauldron dweller.
B
Question of curiosity — wonder what the chances would be that SZ would be inserting self into this search for Kyron, just from some perverted sense of his sick-o SZ-self?
I suppose LE would be checking out the participants, hopefully. But if SZ is a smarty pants, he might be able to fake his way through almost anything.
A watchful eye probably wouldn’t hurt….
@wpg says: August 29, 2013 at 10:16 pm
posted earlier tonight by Kelly Davidson Ramirez:
Thank you so much for the outpouring of support for our upcoming search. At this point we will not be accepting any more volunteers. For all of you who will be volunteering please check your emails for an update from me.
I have emailed you 2x, just fyi
B
Well, a little research shows imo Desiree and Kelly connected (fused) with WK through an “advisor”
but not through batting average. As I was told in nursery school — “They find each other.”
Imo WK contribution in prior cases has been press.
Waiting for mention of POI.
Wondering when her gofundme
will be mentioned.
Blink,
Did you think I wasn’t expecting you to notice and comment on the last line, hmmmm?
How’s your pup?
I would expect you to notice everything in HD and sometimes behind the curtain, lol.
On Harper-Terrible, did not work out, selling her on ebay.
LOL. She is an absolute joy and rapscallion and lo and behold- a Jets fan. Lucky us.
Missing Kyron FB has a mod post painting Desiree as very fragile.
Of course. A reason it’s shocking she is an approved (by LE) searcher.
With Blink on: how does one paint a protective curtain around her?
If the intervention point isn’t LE, family, groupies who strive to share her ego boundaries,
what’s left? Imo maybe she’d listen to a seasoned criminal attorney who has handled
child abduction cases, or a GAL had one been appointed Kyron.
I have seen one potential advisor online. Random google turned up p41 of a justice4caylee,
where a post excoriated Terri. Well shock me: Kelly/Desiree site is called justice4kyron,
so I infer whoever is behind j4c is a collaborator/advisor to j4K.
It would be against every protocol I am aware of to have a parent in the field of an active search.
B
A friend and I went up to Skyline school this week, checked things out, took some pictures. We then drove down Newberry Rd to the highway leading to Sauvie’s. We found a small private airport that I took a picture of. I’ve never heard this airport referred to in media. I don’t know what it’s for, of course. Take a look.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/Grasshopper%20reconnoiter.pdf
Did Desiree take the dogs over to the Homan property where Harry Oaks claims his dogs hit on the edge…
After reading Blinks entry regarding the sexting to Mike Cook, I think Desiree shoud have given Kaine a surprise visit today wth the dog team.
Hit on the edge for what?
B
If an FBI task force from DC was there early Sat,
the Matthews abduction story, and SZ, was known to Staton
early Friday evening.
Please refresh my memory, did DEA
make an appearance that Sat as well, or onky enter picture with
the sting?
If DEA were part of the team weekend 1, it was always thought
this was a drug-related abduction. The only question then is if
it was related to the local Traverso case or a family member.
I admire Desiree; I wish someone would protect her. Maybe Tony
tried & failed.
Wait! It really is me. I didn’t see that you had tried to contact me by either email or phone. Did I miss you?
I don’t really need to join in the group. Just wanted to be able to read vw’s blog. Oh we’ll, I’m used to not being believed.
I emailed you at this email, I would hope you appreciate my diligence to not allow anyone to use your name that is not actually you, at my site. Furthermore, if you have read my coverage, and subsequent comments, you would be absolutely certain of my position on your honesty, and how you have been treated.
B
I do appreciate you, your work here, and your diligence to protect everyone, including me, from rank amateur cauldron dwellers. I respect your work a great deal. This is the only site I read, although I haven’t read every single post. I’ve read enough I know this is the only place to which I feel “safe” enough to post.
Honestly, I did not receive an email from you. I’ve even been checking my spam folder. If I had a scanner, I would send you a copy of my drivers license. I gave you my phone number. I’m not sure what more I can offer.
If it doesn’t work out for you to believe me, it’s really okay. I truly don’t have anything to offer… something LE is finally starting to understand. I don’t want to be a frequent poster or field questions. I really just want to see a missing boy found.
DeDe- I withheld this comment because we were working on your interview and story. I again thank you for your trust and your courage.
B
“On Harper-Terrible, did not work out, selling her on ebay.”
B
Oh, Blink, you got me good with that! lol
Love the photo, great details (ha! player Sanchez), well done!
xoxo’s
LOL. Please look for her first published work- “Things to chew quietly and discreetly complete with looks to assuage anger of any kind upon detection.”
To be followed by
“If those flip flops were really important to you, they would have been in a closet- what where you leave your shoes really says about you as a fur parent.”
B
Will be addressing Tuesday dear Rose- I hope that is ok.
B
Same rhetoric from MCSO.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Searchers-to-look-for-Kyron-on-Saturday-221893351.html##Static