Kyron Horman Exclusive Report: New Suspect And Botched Investigation Rumors Abound- Terri Horman Prepares To Fight For Couples Daughter Following Seclusion
If you are reading this and have followed the Kyron Homan disappearance coverage since he vanished from Skyline School on June 4th 2010, you know my coverage and commentary has focused on the macro analysis of the case details- both publicly available and via developed sources. This report contains newly released information known to law enforcement. It’s contents, to include reader commentary and moderation response, may not be reproduced or copied without express written consent by it’s author in accordance with applicable copyright law.
*TONIGHT* LIVE ON THE DANA PRETZER SHOW- S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief discusses the Kyron Horman Case status LIVE at 9PM EST.
Click Here To Listen To Podcast
Last Week’s Meet And Greet
On Tuesday July 30th, the attorneys representing Terri Moulton Horman, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young attended a series of case hearings. Not held in chambers as announced, but public guests were barred.
On the docket- Desiree Young’s “stay” status of the $10 million dollar civil tort action brought against Terri Horman and the dissolution (divorce and custody) litigation brought by Kaine Horman, Terri’s estranged husband. Until July 26th, there were additional hearings and status conferences scheduled for the recently renewed Freedom From Abuse and Protection Act (FAPA) motion to contest and compel depositions in the restraining order prohibiting Terri Horman from contact with the couple’s daughter Kiara, now 5 years old. Horman has not seen her daughter since June 2010 despite several attempts through counsel to arrange parenting time. Engel, one of the attorneys representing Kaine Horman, argues that the FAPA case is consolidated with the divorce action, and therefore stayed.
Peter Bunch, counsel for Terri Horman, argues that there is no consolidation order.
Non attorney’s still do not understand how the initial proceeding to renew the FAPA order occurred when the plaintiff failed to file the required motion and accompanying affidavits in advance as required, or even serve the respondent’s attorneys until ordered to do so by Judge Henry Kantor once the hearing commenced. Kantor ordered the renewal anyway. I will let the goodly Oregon bar members weigh in on that anomaly.
That was then. This is now.
As of July 31st, the FAPA restraining order was expired and a civil no contact order was put in its place. The dissolution matter (divorce) stay has been lifted and Desiree Young announced she was instructing her attorney’s to withdraw the $10 million dollar suit financed by public donations.
On the same front steps where Atty Rosenthal announced that they were launching the suit to peel the onion that is to include law enforcement, and to “make Terri Horman talk” was withdrawn in similar fashion.
However, on this occasion, Multnomah County District Attorney Rod Underhill was not spotted on the steps observing. Rosenthal and Young indicated the recent appearance and testimony of former object of compulsion to testify, DeDe Spicher, as well as information that the investigative case file necessary (their words) to prove their claims would not be forthcoming. In an article analyzing the suit appearing on BOC it was predicted that Ms. Young would face possible countersuit and associated fees should the suit continue as filed.
Attorneys for both Kaine and Terri appeared before Multnomah County Circuit Family law Judge Susan Svetkey on August 1, 2013. Judge Svetkey is Houze’s wife. The docket information for that hearing has not yet been entered into the file as of this publication.
The only comment about the withdrawal of the civil tort action by Stephen Houze:
“The lawsuit was unfounded and lacking in legal merit,” Houze said. “One can only hope that the dismissal of this meritless lawsuit receives the same degree of media scrutiny as was given to its filing.”
In recent interviews, Kaine Horman has intimated that his wife has expressed her desire to help find Kyron, or at least contribute to excluding herself as a possible suspect. He also admitted that he no longer has any communication with Desiree Young, Kyron’s mother. He sometimes wonders what law enforcement is actually doing on his son’s case. This is a firm departure from how Mr. Horman initially retained his six figure attorney Laura Rackner of Gearing, Rackner, and Engel & McGrath. Ms. Rackner appears to have promulgated her duties of late to her partner, Brett Engel.
This all seemed to start when formidable and well known tort Attorney Mark Wagner came out of retirement to appear as counsel for Terri Horman. Wagner and Rackner know each other, and Rackner is no stranger to LE –based dissolution entanglements.
In fact, Wagner represented her and her previous firm successfully.
Bagel Finagle
Kaine Horman’s attorney Laura Rackner is no stranger to law enforcement infused litigation. She is a former prosecutor for Oregon’s department of Justice, The U.S. Department of Justice, and Office of Chief Counsel. Ms. Rackner has specificity in Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) casework.
Born in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Laura received her B.S. in 1979 and her J.D. in 1984, both from the University of Oregon.
Prior to entering private practice, Laura served as deputy district attorney in the Marion County District Attorney’s Office; assistant attorney general in the Oregon Department of Justice; and on the staff of the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Chief Counsel, Drug Enforcement Administration.
Record Scratch.
Martin Rob Cagan, The bagel king and according to him, a supreme target of a police shakedown at the hands of his former spouse’s attorneys was the litigious sort.
In fact, this may be how Atty Wagner decides to come out of retirement and become part of Terri Horman’s defense team while the civil suit was active.
Wagner’s firm represented Ms. Rackner in a suit filed by Rob Cagan in which he sued the Dueshete Police Department, A partner in the firm representing Caroleen Vanhoomissen, the suit (or ramblings of a very angry divorcee) alleges that the firm and its lawyers facilitated the difficulties of Mr. Cagan utilizing law enforcement sources directly by the attorneys was dismissed.
Ms. Vanhoomissen, the sister of Judge Vanhoomissen is also the owner of a horse farm in Bend, Oregon. Blinkoncrime was unable to verify if it was the Bend horse farm searched in the early days of the investigation for Kyron.
Attorney Rackner’s prior working relationship with the DEA, the very agency that supplied the undercover officer in the failed sting involving Horman landscaper Rudy Sanchez begs the question- Did Rackner use her contacts and/or credentials to facilitate a surreptitious ruse to gain favor for her client in anticipation of his wife’s potential arrest?
Kaine is on record that law enforcement informed him they had probable cause to arrest Terri. What is not on record, is what came first- the referral to Rackner.
I just want to do what I can to help law enforcement
Seems like an odd comment coming from a family attorney with a background as a prosecutor working with the DEA, which agency subsequently becomes involved in the case- or initially led to her representation- the chicken or the egg facts remain unclear.
The ex parte and originally sealed restraining order did not exclude Terri Horman from the marital home. Was this an oversight of a very seasoned family attorney or was the basis of the now defunct restraining order as provided to Kaine Horman and Laura Rackner by law enforcement effectively invalidated by Terri Horman calling 911?
Is the reason that Atty Engel seems to have taken over representation of Kaine Horman due to the fact that these actions could render Ms. Rackner a witness in her client’s case as opposed to his Attorney?
In the motions and subsequent hearing scheduled for July 30th, the only available arguments outside of the parties agreement is to contest the basis for the FAPA order- or, the allegation Kaine Horman has made within his affidavits more than once, that his wife tried to hire “our landscaper” to kill him, and that she is being investigated for “violent crimes.”
The outcome?
The order was converted to a civil no-contact order which has not yet been added to the file for public review.
Desiree and Kaine’s respective camps both claimed “protecting the integrity of the investigation” was their only interest although the ONLY 2 witnesses who were summoned for deposition by Terri Horman’s lawyers were- the lead investigator of Kyron’s investigation for 18 months- Bobby John O’Donnell and Kaine Horman.
Back To School
Skyline School, the International Baccalaureate candidate who announced the IB open house format weeks earlier via take home handouts to its students and also by displaying the event on its marquis has never been declared a crime scene. Although in nearly every legal support brief or news coverage article Terri Horman was dubbed “the last person to be seen with Kyron Horman” or more recently by Desiree Young as “Kyron was last seen by someone who cared about him at 8:45 am” absolutely no witness account or Science Fair insider was known publicly to dispute such accounts.
Until now.
“Once I learned all that was going on that same day, in that same school, I did not understand why I was being told that Terri Horman was the suspect, and one other person… It never made sense to me that they knew Kyron was seen with someone else besides his stepmother after she left, that they seemed to not even consider another theory.” (*Editor’s Note*- parts of the source’s quote have been redacted as they would reveal identity of witnesses in an ongoing criminal investigation)
Electric Slide?
Sometime after Terri Horman left the school with her daughter Kiara in tow, she was captured on store video prior to Kyron’s exit from Skyline School. It is believed Kyron was last seen between 9:05 and 9:20 AM.
The following is a summation of multiple direct witness accounts, edited to protect witness identification only.
“…He must have been standing behind me because I only recall hearing him ask if the boy could help him bring some stuff in from his truck. I thought it was (edited) until he looked up at him and then he looked at Ms. Matthews for approval and she nodded her head yes in response. They walked out of the South entrance together and I do not recall seeing either of them again.
Classroom 1 Property of www.blinkoncrime.com
(Editor’s Note: It is believed that Desiree and Kaine’s comments about concern that instruction they gave him last year about listening to staff “came back to haunt them.” They have never acknowledged they were told about this witness account but a source close to www.blinkoncrime.com has confirmed they were informed but not given a witness description.
www.blinkoncrime.com has confirmed the EXIF data on the image includes the timestamp of June 4 2010 at 8:43AM PST.
Backstory OR Backdrop?
Among the peers of Kyron Horman in attendance on June 4th, were some children whose parents may have been granted access via the open house format, although documents filed with the school and LE would preclude the parents from removing them.
In fact, the mother of a chief witness in this case was arrested that very day for attempting to fill a script that did not belong to her, in a pharmacy that Terri Horman allegedly also visited that morning.
Another child whose parents lost custody due to very long histories with substance abuse and associated criminal behavior had the additional possible misfortune of closely resembling both Kaine and Terri Horman.
Non Custodial Parent Red Long Hair
It is unknown whether either parent took the opportunity to visit the school that day, but they were not included on the published list. While barred legally from removing their child from the school they could not be barred from a publicly announced invitational. There was no ID checks or sign-in sheets for non-volunteer guests.
In an unrelated twist, the child’s Father was found deceased in front of a Portland residence in April 2012. The name of the child and Kyron’s schoolmate, guardians and parents are being intentionally withheld for this article.
Sovereignty In lieu Of..
Among the many unanswered questions in Kyron’s disappearance: Why hasn’t the school been held accountable? He disappeared on their watch- with a concise standard of care duty and plan.
What really happened?
There is no dispute that Kyron had an exchange that resulted in a teacher nodding her approval that Kyron assist a man in his stated purpose- to bring things in from his truck. There is no dispute that Kyron was last seen at Skyline School. There is no dispute that both Kyron’s parents expressed concern that last year’s discipline involving instruction on being a better listener may have come back to haunt them. They said so.
What may be in dispute, for sure, is how accurate the list of attendees at the Skyline School of June 4th, 2010 is.
As an example, one witness told Editor In Chief, S. Christina Stoy that a young male former student said hello to Susan Hall and when asked by a parent who the lad was a few days later, she said she was not sure. He is NOT on the list.
When another parent subsequently asked Ms. Hall who the student was following Kyron’s disappearance to verify he was on the published list- she responded she could not remember. Ms. Hall was the Skyline Administrative staff who contacted 911 upon speaking to Terri Horman and learning Kyron was not on the bus. Hall subsequently contacted Desiree Young. She did this while the Horman’s were on their way back to the school to see if Kyron might have thought he was being picked up that day as opposed to riding the bus or some other sort of snafu.
According to the MCSO, the school records that could assist the investigation were never requested to be preserved by investigators and as a result were deleted.
So why was the Skyline School never named as a defendant in the previously pending litigation filed by Kyron’s mother Desiree Young?
The reason may lie in the recreational designation utilized on June 4th, 2010.
According to the National Policy and Legal Analysis Network (napl) it may be a simple question of whether Kyron disappeared during the “recreational” portion of the program.
Napl’s guidance to lawyer’s advising Oregon schools can be read here. Although the overall plan is relative to an obesity initiative, it would include research and advice on any school recreational or regularly scheduled event. Please tell me Cogen does not factor into this.
The following are excerpts from the report:
…”Absent special liability protection, school districts and other providers of recreational facilities have the legal duty to take reasonable precautions to prevent injury. What is reasonable is very context specific and depends on many things: most important, the nature of the harm, the difficulty of preventing it, and generally accepted standards in the management of recreational facilities…”
…” The only immunity Oregon grants to public bodies, which include school districts,2 is discretionary government immunity.3 Discretionary government immunity applies to choices “among alternative public policies by persons to whom responsibility for such policies have been delegated.”4 To fall under the protection of this doctrine, Oregon courts have said, the choice must result from the exercise of judgment and involve a public policy or nonroutine day-to-day activity.
…” In summary, Oregon immunizes schools for policy choices its officials make, but it holds schools liable for breaches of duty that occur in carrying out those policy choices…”
…” The recreational user statute should therefore provide strong protection to Oregon schools seeking to avoid liability arising from after-hours outdoor recreational programs on school grounds. Applying this statute to indoor recreational activities, however, is much riskier, although the case law does not preclude such a strategy.
Regular School Day- Changes Things
…” In Oregon, schools owe students a duty to “supervise at all times the conduct of children on school grounds and to enforce those rules and regulations necessary to their protection. . . . The standard of care imposed upon school personnel in carrying out the duty to supervise the conduct of students is that degree of care which a person of ordinary prudence, charged with comparable duties, would exercise under the same circumstances.”37
Is the issue of liability to Skyline School relegated to what time Kyron was abducted, presuming he was abducted, as is believed?
Very possibly.
As we know, the school opened early the morning of June 4th, 2010, as was displayed on the school’s marquis at least 2 weeks prior. Without particular knowledge of when the suspect responsible for Kyron’s disappearance entered the school, and under what auspice, one is left to the timeline of Kyron’s activities as juxtaposed with the start of the school day. As a regular standard of care, one could argue that begins with a student getting on the bus, if a passenger, on their regular route. What if a bus passenger is attending the “event” outside of the bus transportation? Admittedly, it seems moot inasmuch as neither one of Kyron’s parents have filed suit against the school or named them as having any negligence or liability. That said, it remains a possibility in the event Kyron is found.
There is no question Kyron was seen after 8:45AM- which is the time that a regularly scheduled bus arrives- which would ring the bell, so to speak, on the normal school day.
To be Continued:
Roid Noise And The Boys In Blue- Publishing Thursday August 8. Preview Discussion Tonight on THE DANA PRETZER SHOW.
Ellie Sanders contributed research to this report.
Jacqueline Beaufort, contributing editor
Image retouching courtesy of Klaasend
Previous Coverage:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/
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Visited the file room yesterday and got documents filed in early Aug. The RO and divorce files were combined over much of the past so it was very confusing. in the end I simply put them all into the same pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/RO%20and%20Divorce%20Aug%2012.pdf
on page 5, that there is nothing checked that prohibits firearms but an agreement on Terri’s part. KATU reported that she was prohibited which isn’t true. On page 7 Kaine is wanting a psychological evaluation of Terri and citing references that he shouldn’t be allowed to given the RO and civil cases were dropped. On page 12, section 3, part A, it states that NEITHER Kaine or Terri are to contact, harass or intimidate each other but the way that Maxine on Oregonlive reported it was that it was only Terri who should refrain. When is someone going to actually report the truth in this case and not include their bias?
With the visceral attitude that Engle is writing this motion about Terri doing a psychological evaluation, by continuing to state that she is part of the investigation when she hasn’t been named a POI or suspect, that the civil attacks were essentially dropped because IMO there wasn’t enough evidence and the LE, probably Staton and O’Donnell would have been deposed to prove their claims of malice against this woman now spending 3 years from her child(ren) while still pointing the finger of blame is preposterous. Sounds like to me that Bunch, Wagner and Houze pretty much said “Put up or shut up.” and that’s exactly what happened. I am going to make another prediction that Terri will participate in the evaluation and fight for custody of her daughter come Hell or high water. I see a lot of legal garble that I don’t fully understand but what I am reading through the lines (someone else tell me if I’m wrong) is that Terri is now showing she has the upper hand by something that she and/or her attorneys know for everyone opposed to scatter like cockroaches.
not much to say about the civil case. I got an old document, a protective order from november before the stay, that I had not noticed before. besides that, just the dismissal paperwork. I asked for data listing for all three files but got none for this. don’t know if the clerk forgot or if there was nothing new listed.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/civil%20case%20aug%2012.pdf
Rose says:
August 12, 2013 at 4:06 pm
“@TRuth. Blink said it was “next to” 109.”
Rose and T.Ruth,
There “are” 2 doors “next to” 109.
The small “exit” emergency door to the left of 109′s windows (Blink says there was no access to it “from the outside” as an entry way), and the “larger” west entrance/exit to the school.
Wait a sec . . .
Standing outside, when you step forward into the alcove area of the large west entrance to proceed INTO the school, are there side windows to the left for Room 109 that would look out into this covered space?
whatever became of the Kessinger boy seeing Kyron in the gym?
Was he all wet, or did Kyron go there first & then proceed downstairs?
TY wpg.
TY Blink,
and TRuth & wpg who got it.
@wpg. that’s how I thot someone in 109 saw him entering.
@MBS. Good luck on contract for teachers, per OLive, PPS just
signed a niggardly contract to spec ed paras, OTs, and PTs in their contract.
Go Keefer.
http://www.wweek.com/portland/m/blog-30557-mobile.html#_Article
Go Ellen! ( Kinda like Go Keefer)
I am at a loss in understanding OSB dismissing a complaint w/o referring to Bar Disciplinary Counsel for investigation.
Maybe OSB is organized differently. Sorry Kroger is no longer there. Before the health issue, he was the trained & prepared attorney to clean up the State.
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/10/oregon_attorney_general_john_k_2.html
“After his election, he quickly moved the Justice Department into a more activist role, rejecting the long-held image that it was a government-run law firm. The agency stepped up pursuit of criminal cases, particularly public corruption and drug trafficking. Kroger, the state’s 16th attorney general, led the agency to sterner enforcement of environmental and civil rights laws.
But his drive ruffled feathers in and out of the agency. His public-corruption investigations, which led to resignations or convictions of sheriffs and other officials, were sometimes criticized as zealous. Kroger ultimately demoted the attorney leading those prosecutions.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/03/oregon_attorney_general_john_k_1.html
So thus would fit with a sighting of the truck in the rear,
and Kyron stopping in the gym first, before 109 between 905-920:
“One person who has been asked again about what he saw is Skyline seventh-grader Tyler Kessinger, whose science fair project was on antimatter. He said investigators came back to interview him last week at his home.
“I just saw him (Kyron) in the gym, and I saw the truck out in the parking lot,” he said Wednesday. Kessinger said Kyron was looking at other students’ science fair projects, seemed happy and was with friends.
Kessinger said he hopes it’s all cleared up soon because it’s a frightening situation for him.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html?m=y&smobile=y
“Just knowing someone took him and not coming out and confessing, and that he’s probably in some other random place,” he said.
He said when he saw Kyron in the gym he didn’t see Terri Horman with him. He and his family have turned over pictures they took at the science fair to investigators, but they’ve been asked not to disclose the timeframe in which he saw Kyron.”
Just sitting here thinking “what ifs”
What if Ms. Matthews never gave that nod of approval? I don’t think SZ would have stood there and argued with her. So then what…SZ moves on to another classroom and attempts another opportunity?
How do we know Kyron was his first attempt that morning? Sometimes kids are oblivious to friendly strangers making small talk. In fact some kids are quite chatty and forget the stranger danger rules – especially in their comfort zone at school.
Was there one person specifically that Kyron didn’t listen to at school, or a few and was this NOTED in his school records on file? If so, who would have access to this or who would have overheard that he was having trouble following directions? (hence DY & KH giving him a talk about following instructions.
Blink,
The discussion on the locations of the doors is mentally exhausting (for me).
Appreciate if you can describe where on the floor plans graphic are the 2 different locations of the witnessed entry and exit doors.
Thank you.
We need this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_0fyUYB3cA
Rose,
I recall Blink said a while back on the previous thread (think in a reply to me) that TylerK saw what he saw on Thursday.
That really surprised me.
I think LE is playing Kaine.. Kaine is their main concern
Quote from the FBI.
Kyron Richard Horman has been missing from Skyline Elementary School in Portland, Oregon, since June 4, 2010. He was last seen that morning after attending a science fair at the school.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/kyron-richard-horman/view
“AFTER attending the science fair”…. When was the fair over… He was seen AFTER that? Or am I just playing with words?
someone here stated there was an ib representitive at the sci fair, does anyone know if (s)he was on the le list of attendees june 4?
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9068.msg1277962
snip
le gave the sexts to kaine and he used them in his divorce
me: as far as i can tell le hasnt released anything in this case except that needed to help kaine legally. goes to me seeing why blink might be saying rackners use of her ties to le and interjecting them into her legal cases.
i found this link to story about witness or witnesses have provided info about person or persons in or in immedieat proximity to the truck. (sheet is that le speak or what?!) cant check links on phone-hope it works
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100455014.html
dont know the area or if this could ref to blinks article comment about horse farms but this was posted in dec 2010 when the posters memory would have been still clear, “kaine asked” stands out, if there was atty or da or le involvment in directing retribution reguarding cogen (cagen) way back early in this case. may not be related though.
posted by Im.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9068.925
There was a horse farm in bend that Kaine asked LE to search”
if sz didnt get floor plans online he would have still had opportunity to get layout of the school in the few months prior, (the school with no sign in sheets, no wearing of badges and that volunteers said never background checked volunteers.)
just a few i noted:
4/19-22/2012 8:30am to 3:30 Used booksale at Skyline elementary.Make a donation or just plan to stop by and shop.
From scared monkeys #38, page 3, link to follow in my next post)
The monkeys listed this one too:
http://Www.srnpdx.org/newsline_april23_2010
S.p.church will be sending volunteers to skyline on 5/2/10 to work on a variety of landscaping projects…painting classrooms…
…(spc member)….enlist the help of other skyline parents and members of skyline community.
Spc volunteer link photo: http://www….
(pic has photo of 8 boys, 2 with glasses about ky’s age with a man.
link to monkeys research on skyline community volunteers request for may 2010
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9068.5
i think i am just going to be sam h for awhile-these links are killin my fat fingures on tiny keyboard
i earnestly hope that posts here are not causing desiree any discomfort in any way but i think its time to look at things other than tmh and recover Kyron
a person with ties to community or skyline school notes that all school events that would recquire parent attendance are canceled for 2010 after disapearance of kyron. includes annual pumpkin carving event and christmas program. only event held is an evening program called “no, go, yell, tell
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php3opic=9068.65
note from parent of nearby school re school apx 1hr from skyline has a man in the trees watching the children at recess, le called. elementary school, november 2010. http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9068.90
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html
fri june 4
“8:45 s.m. terri horman leaves…”
9 a.m. kyron is reportedly seen by a student near the south entrance of the school, according to sheriff dan staton, who says that was the last time the boy was seen. multnomah county authorities later backtrack on that statement.”
“sun. june 6 8:58 am terri moultan horman posts on facebook to say she has ordered missing persons fliers: “I ordered 1000 fliers, they will be coming to our house. I will let you know when they are here and we can go from there. Thank you everyone.”
Man tries to lure boy at park 8-2010
http://www.oregonlive.com/beaverton/index.ssf/2010/08/beaverton_police_release_sketch_of_suspect_in_sexual_assault_at_fanno_creek_park.html
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/hormans-desk-mate-says-substitute-noticed-Horman/TVY3YTREGoSyCP3tb3Mk2g.cspx
(copied from scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9068.235
(after tp’s statement)
snip
“Ps spokesman matt shelby said the account cant be true: ” There were no substitutes at the school that day…”
“shelby thinks pumula may be confused because all week after the disappearance a substitute teacher has been at the school…”
“tanner says kyron was in school for at least an hour friday morning and that he saw kyrons step-mother leave the school without kyron.”
(Me: interesting how after tanners statement became public the school discounted the alleged teacher-substitute comment but the case immedietly changed focus at this point: from tmh did it to tmh must have had an accomplice. – july 22,2010 “investigators put pressure on terri moultans friends…” http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/investigators_put_pressure_on.html)
back to kids who usually have no motive to make things up-
“8 yr. old P SAYS THE FIRST PERSON TO NOTICE KYRON MISSING WAS A SUBSTITUTE TEACHER WHO WAS TAKING A HEAD COUNT AS THE 2ND AND 3RD grade class was re-assembling after visiting other classrooms…
“and she was like ‘oh no where’s kyron theres only 5′ and mrs porter was like its ok calm down, calm downhe’s probably in the bathroom or getting a drink…”
“It wasn’t untill the bus ride home from school that he noticed that kyron was not on the bus.”
Me: substitute doing head count sounds like the group leader that had kyron in her party.
Some have said tp must have made this up because he would have noticed kyron gone before the bus ride home but it was science fair day followed by talent show, it is just as possible the kids didnt sit down much in their desks that day imo.
from http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topics9068.250
http://www.oregonlive.com...
“kyron was last seen by someone inside the school around 9 am (le wont comment on who saw him) (according to press conf. 6/7)
another reporter asks for further clarification of earlier time line statements by le
“I cant answer your question completely,but i can say the last point at which kyron was seen was about 9:00 am, but uh…” then the reporter cuts him off.)
Later on a reporter asks if the last sighting was by the stepmother or someone else, “I’m not able to give those details.”
(still from scared monkey page)
From http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi4P3vGDow8 transcribed: “he was seen near his classroom, and the last point was down at the south entrance door of the school.”
@grasshopper. TY.
Imo if anyone should undergo a psychological in the divorce to establish parenting
safety for Kiara, it is Kaine based on his past behaviors (“she’s all mine”
behaviors). Where is that GAL?
the “she’s all mine” psychology brings to mind DiMaggio & Powell, sorry.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html
link to dave stensen comments-not sure if its the first one, or the one he made after talking to le and changing the times.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9068.285
“kurtis stated that he knew kyron (his lunch buddy) would be out that day because he had a drs apointment.”
me: again i dont believe kids make things up usually. imo mrs porters day may have gone like this:
around 9 when group leader says kyron is not there at head count, he is prob in the bathroom..
10 am roll call when kyron still is not there she thinks, oh something terri said about dr apt-he must be there…
kurtis asks where is kyron-porter says he is at a dr apt.
that is just a scenario that i came up with trying to sort out the confusion of so many people saying so many diff things, i have no idea how kurtis came to think yron was at a dr apoint. the thing that bothers me is that if le was looking through tmh glasses they didnt check into things, they were accused in the blog s of changing stensens timeline because they didnt listen to anything at first that didnt fit Kyron left with tmh. if she didnt have that trip to the grocery store with video, imo she would be on her 3rd yr in jail by now.
@sam. Has LE ever reported, or the bios anonymously told media, there were group leaders in that particular room?
Silence on that issue speaks. We know there was a substitute special ed para in the school due to being on the list.
May or may not have been the “sub” with Porter. All we know for sure is there was one other adult with Porter. Personally I think if more adults (parents) were reuniting back there at 10, Porter wouldn’t have blown the other adult’s concern off & one of the moms would’ve volunteered to find Kyron. I don’t think Porter had organized groups led by an adult, or PPS would’ve made sure that got in the paper to verify how responsible she was and how Kyron disappeared before she assigned groups. I suspect each of the 2 adults took a clump of kids, one going to the downstairs & one to upstairs rooms.
I have always wondered if TP’s account, where the sub/chaperone misses Kyron, could have been BEFORE the children were put into groups. Suppose Porter just hands this helper a list of kids names, she gets the kids together and realizes Kyron is missing. Perhaps that’s when Porter says not to worry he’s probably in the bathroom, or getting a drink. So then sub/chaperone “leaves” WITH the other 4 kids thinking Kyron will catch up, but he never does. Then later on, back at the roll call at 10:00 it goes as Sam says, Porter thinks *assumes* that Kyron must have had his Dr. apptmt. that day, and she, as opposed to the following Friday.
I do not understand the confusion in this matter to this day, but I sometimes wonder if Porter was the one who decided that Terri *must* have meant June 4, when perhaps Terri actually said June 11. Porter may have done this as innocently as Ms. Mathew’s nod, never realizing what a huge mistake it was until AFTER Kyron was reported missing in the afternoon.
IDK, I do not understand why the public cannot be given the truth in this one matter, I don’t see how divulging this information can harm the investigation and bring anything tot his case, but more truth.
Sorry for my typos.
sam h says:
August 14, 2013 at 5:30 am
I believe it was Ms porter that told Kyrons class that he was at a Dr.’s appt. as per an interview with Kim Holm.
———————-
Sources: Terri Horman vague on Kyron’s doctor appointment date
Story Published: Jul 21, 2010 at 7:11 PM PDT
Story Updated: Jul 21, 2010 at 8:38 PM PDT
Kim Holm’s son, Kurtis, who Terri Horman photographed with his science project around the time she took a picture of Kyron that morning, said her son knew about the appointment too.
“And the teacher said, ‘I thought he left with his mom,’ because they thought they had a doctor appointment,” Holm said. “And then at lunchtime, Kurtis ate lunch with him every day, he wasn’t there at lunchtime.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98981009.html
Did LE ever bring up the truck again, after Stensen’s media interview?
@grasshopper says:
August 13, 2013 at 6:37 pm
Thanks for the links to the documents. Yes, with Engle still bringing up the investigation and saying Terri is at the “forefront”, does that not just put us back at square one again. Would not Bunch, counter that this is hearsay and ask them to prove this stance once again, or get it dismissed from the dissolution? Seems so to me it would.
You are right the reporting on this case has been terribly biased. This new civil order document proves it. One thing I’m seeing here that I have not seen in any document before is the order to cease intimidation of either party by a third party. IMO, Mr. Horman needs to cut off his relationship immediately with his “team”, some of whom we know have most definitely intimidated not just Terri, but her whole family.
This case is just so damn sad.
I see the civil case was dismissed “without prejudice”, which when I looked it up, (see, I am learning) means Desiree can do it again in the future should she decide to do so. Wasn’t sure what that meant, so I googled it:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/without+prejudice
Snoopy says:
August 14, 2013 at 12:26 am
I think LE is playing Kaine.. Kaine is their main concern
***********
Years ago, I thought the same thing may be true, but I don’t think LE would have allowed Kaine to have custody of the baby, nor would they have been any part of the dissolution which kept the baby from her mother for 3 long years.
wpg says:
August 13, 2013 at 11:03 pm
Rose,
I recall Blink said a while back on the previous thread (think in a reply to me) that TylerK saw what he saw on Thursday.
That really surprised me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So many stories, so many rumors that we just cannot verify. I recall someone (a parent from the school?) very early in the investigation saying that one of the children witnesses might have been mistaken regarding the day he saw Kyron. I think she/he was specifically referring to Tanner as he was the one who spoke of a substitute teacher who was only on campus that Thursday, not on Friday.
As for these particular witnesses/sources not being called before the grand jury: that does not surprise me or my DH. If a witness has provided to LE a detailed, written sworn statement, many times the ADA will choose not to call that witness before the grand jury.
@t.ruth,
IDK if LE ever mentioned the truck – after the Stensen interview but I wonder if anyone has the video of Stensen fumbling around with the gate key – the key that opens the gate on the path/road to the soccer field?
IIRC, it was mentioned in that article that accompanied the video, that DS had to pick up the key in the office and return it when he finished mowing ?
Access road shown in this article:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html
sam hawthorne says:
August 14, 2013 at 2:07 am
dont know the area or if this could ref to blinks article comment about horse farms but this was posted in dec 2010 when the posters memory would have been still clear, “kaine asked” stands out, if there was atty or da or le involvment in directing retribution reguarding cogen (cagen) way back early in this case. may not be related though.
posted by Im.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9068.925
There was a horse farm in bend that Kaine asked LE to search”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Terri’s son, James, was training a horse at or about the time Kyron went missing (based on photos of James with a horse on TMH’s FB page and her comments under those photos). Perhaps this is where his horse was boarded?
“In fact, the mother of a chief witness in this case was arrested that very day for attempting to fill a script that did not belong to her, in a pharmacy that Terri Horman allegedly also visited that morning.”
***************
A chief witness? I didn’t even know there was a chief witness. LOL
Anyhoo, you made me look around a little, isn’t this TP’s mom in this mugshot? It says arrested in MC 11/24/12. I thought she moved to AZ right after Ky went missing.
http://www.mugshotsworld.com/LISA-MARIE-PUMALA
Snoopy says:
August 14, 2013 at 12:26 am
I think LE is playing Kaine.. Kaine is their main concern
I’ve always been suspicious of Kaine, initially because of his irrational insistence that Terri “did it” when he could not possibly have been certain of then. His behavior ever since increases my suspicion. however, would LE really take a daughter away from her mother for 3+ years without even visitation and stay the divorce so she would have no access to the family’s assets if they were really after Kaine? The two things are hopefully incompatible, even for LE/DA. The pressure has all been on Terri, and Kaine has not the slightest desire to prevent her further pain, so it can’t be a psychological trick to get kaine.
@Rose
I totally agree that Kaine is the one who needs a psychological evaluation. Can’t see how they can demand one of Terri and not do him. Also an evaluation of Kiara to see what effect these 3 years have had on her. I continue to be horrified that Kaine through Engel continues to promote the idea that since it has been so long, it would be better for Kiara to never see her mother again. Maybe Engel needs a psychological eval too. and Kantor for being so in the pocket of DA that he has approved every step along the way for no sound reason.
I always thought the August 11 LE press was to find out about an un-id’ed vehicle in the south lot. Could that be the area that SZ parked? Or was he in the back lot, and they were looking for witnesses who may have been leaving at the same time as SZ, and were hoping to get info on who may have come out of the back lot.
snip>
In addition, the investigative team wants anyone who parked in the school’s south parking lot, between the school’s south entrance and Northwest Skyline Boulevard, before 8:45 a.m. to provide their name, license plate number, make, model, year and color of their vehicle.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/kyron_horman_case_investigator.html
I thought the horse James was training was owned by & resided on property
belonging to birthfather Tarver’s wife several hours away.
Ann Pumala, TP’s aunt and Brian’s sister moved to AZ. Brian and Ann’s mother Bobbie (TP’s paternal grandmother and the ex-wife of Steve Harmon, the cop that had the SI houseboat and resembled MM) had remarried and moved there as well.
http://www.veromi.com/Search.aspx?sType=name&db=&fn=bobbi&mn=&ln=pumala&city=&state=OR&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&Age=
http://www.veromi.com/Search.aspx?sType=name&db=&fn=ann&mn=&ln=pumala&city=&state=OR&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&Age=
I know these links do not establish residency in AZ, but they do show relationships. Somewhere back, we did find evidence of Bobbie’s move to AZ, with Ann following thereafter.
Wendy Fuhrer is TP’s maternal grandmother that went on the record with TP’s statement. Her daughter is Lisa, and her husband’s name is also Steve.
http://www.veromi.com/Search.aspx?sType=name&db=&fn=wendy&mn=&ln=fuhrer&city=&state=OR&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&Age=
IIRC, Fuhrer’s have sold their home next to Horman’s, and Harmon has sold his houseboat on SI.
T. Ruth says:
August 14, 2013 at 3:29 pm
Blink, All I got was a GEICO commercial with nothing that followed.
We need this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_0fyUYB3cA
Then again, perhaps they were looking someone who saw SZ enter the school @ the south entrance.
In addition, the investigative team wants anyone who parked in the school’s south parking lot, between the school’s south entrance and Northwest Skyline Boulevard, before 8:45 a.m. to provide their name, license plate number, make, model, year and color of their vehicle.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/kyron_horman_case_investigator.
grasshopper says:
August 14, 2013 at 3:32 pm
(snipped)
I continue to be horrified that Kaine through Engel continues to promote the idea that since it has been so long, it would be better for Kiara to never see her mother again.
********************8
I seem to recall a legal analyst saying exactly this. That the longer Kaine can keep Kiara away from Terri, the harder it will be for Terri to achieve any custody at all. This was very early on, I’m going to look for it now, because I read it, I was in shock as well, because this made me see that this was all very possibly nothing more than a legal procedure by Kaine to get what he wants. I still think that when Desiree said she did not agree with the current choices he is making, that this was what she was referring to, i.e., Kaine taking another child away from their mother. She knows what that is like.
Found it:
http://www.kpic.com/news/local/112506339.html
An observer of the legal fight, family law attorney Drew Bobzien, said Terri’s lawyers had to pick their poison between halting the divorce and handcuffing their fight for visitation. He says Terri picked her right to stay silent over her desire to see her daughter.
“She can’t take the stand, she can’t be deposed, she can’t present evidence that the police won’t give her,” Bobzien said. “So her position at the end is let’s keep the status quo, but she’s screaming at everybody ‘I want you to know I’d like to see my daughter, but it’s not in my daughter’s best interest.’ ”
Terri’s lawyers acknowledge she is the subject of the criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance but they say Kaine’s side has unfairly inflamed the public against her by saying she has failed lie detector tests and by releasing sexual text messages between Terri and one of Kaine’s high school friends.
Bobzien said the more the fight between the two sides continues to drag on, the less chances Terri has of getting custody back.
“The longer dad has the case, the less likely mom is to get custody because family law is a lot about patterns that get established,” said Bobzien.
***************
If Terri is innocent, this sucks.
You know what else, after reading that statement about “established patterns”, I am wondering if THAT is the reason Kaine suddenly decided he’d better stay in the house. I have no idea where Kaine & Kiara went when they moved out, but if it was, let’s say to a female friend of Kaine’s, then Kaine exposing Kiara to a new person and a new house, he would have broken one of those patterns. Terri should have held her ground. Why doesn’t it matter that Terri Horman made that house into a home? Ticks me off. Rackner would certainly know all these things and use them to her client’s advantage, as would Engle. And all of Kaine’s comments in regard to Kiara’s “regular” patterns now, sleep-time, play-time, yep, I think this has always been about him having full custody and little to do with what actually went on inside that home. JMO
@grasshopper ty for comments on case files, i cant read pdf files so i really appreciate anything comments on anything you notice.
@rose per groups? in tps statement his quote from porter was “calm down, calm down he’s probably in the bathroom…
This, to me, shows that the person was visibly upset, not upset if she had just been given a list before they even started out. Just my opinion. Also the pta leader i think talked about the classes meeting up for touring groups, if not her, then every other person that initially gave comments on june 4 structure. None of those commenters ever said all the students met up with volunteers to tour “except mrs porters class”..
I will try to get a timeline of stensens comments and the truck but i think poster might have a good point there! “Did le ask about the truck after that” (sorry cant scroll up to see who said that)
If i had a war room i would have a list of all the press releases and dates on it, and main points from said. I never looked at this case from “what was le doing” or what was school doing” one thing that really bothered me was a presser the next sunday or monday by the school that detailed new security measures ie sign ins, wearing badges etc. The brief “handbook” posting here showed me that all the things they said they were implimenting were already things they were supposed to be doing! Imo that is why the guidelines for 2009/2010 are missing.
As it is my “war room” is some scratch paper and a tiny cell phone screen that keeps saying “not enough memory, or tiny battery is dead” lol
I am brought to tears when i think of the tips that were received of possible sightings early on and wonder if they were given enough credibility. some pple going to the press saying no one ever called them back, and the thought that with a community that willing to help find kyron, he or his abductors may have truly been sighted…
@grasshopper ty for comments on case files, i cant read pdf files so i really appreciate comments on anything you notice.
@rose per groups? in tps statement his quote from porter was “calm down, calm down he’s probably in the bathroom…
This, to me, shows that the person was visibly upset, not upset if she had just been given a list before they even started out. Just my opinion. Also the pta leader i think talked about the classes meeting up for touring groups, if not her, then every other person that initially gave comments on june 4 structure. None of those commenters ever said all the students met up with volunteers to tour “except mrs porters class”..
I will try to get a timeline of stensens comments and the truck but i think poster might have a good point there! “Did le ask about the truck after that” (sorry cant scroll up to see who said that)
If i had a war room i would have a list of all the press releases and dates on it, and main points from said. I never looked at this case from “what was le doing” or what was school doing” one thing that really bothered me was a presser the next sunday or monday by the school that detailed new security measures ie sign ins, wearing badges etc. The brief “handbook” posting here showed me that all the things they said they were implimenting were already things they were supposed to be doing! Imo that is why the guidelines for 2009/2010 are missing.
As it is my “war room” is some scratch paper and a tiny cell phone screen that keeps saying “not enough memory, or tiny battery is dead” lol
I am brought to tears when i think of the tips that were received of possible sightings early on and wonder if they were given enough credibility. some pple going to the press saying no one ever called them back, and the thought that with a community that willing to help find kyron, he or his abductors may have truly been sighted…