Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation EXCLUSIVE: Terri Horman Friend DeDe Spicher Breaks Her Silence After Passing Polygraph- Requests DA Clear Her Publicly
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation. ©
S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime
Lea Conner, Attorney- contributing editor, and, legal analyst
DeDe Spicher
Forward
In the days following the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron Horman from the Skyline School on June 4th, 2010, Terri Horman’s inner circle of friends, family and associates—casual acquaintances, shop clerks, and gym employees—were deluged by law enforcement.
Word spread quickly that law enforcement was after anyone who knew, might have known, or had any dealings with Terri Horman. The term used to describe law enforcement’s behavior toward potential witnesses was “bullying. ”
As the president of her former condominium owner’s association, DeDe Spicher was involved in helping the association with litigation against the condo’s builder. Spicher had a working relationship with the association’s legal team, and one afternoon, she casually mentioned the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance to the association’s legal team. Although DeDe had not been contacted by law enforcement, counsel for her condo association recommended to DeDe that, in light of what DeDe had heard about the investigation, if law enforcement were to contact her, she should agree to interview only with counsel present. She asked the attorney to sit in if that happened, to which he agreed. He quickly referred Spicher to attorney Chad Stavley.
With a search warrant in hand for electronic devices only, to which DeDe directed investigators, law enforcement proceeded to search her entire home. Multnomah County Detective Keith Krafve asked Spicher to answer some questions.
DeDe said she replied, “I would be happy to answer any and all questions you have but I would like to do so in the presence of counsel. ”
Law enforcement, in turn, began a prolonged and highly orchestrated effort to bully DeDe Spicher.
When I first introduced myself to Ms. Spicher, I offered my apologies for what she had been through and told her that in my personal opinion, she had been unfairly maligned, if not persecuted. I thanked her for her trust of me to tell her story. Ms. Spicher paid me some kind compliments on my coverage of Kyron’s case to date.
I found her extremely bright, animated and witty, with a charmingly confident , and self-deprecating sense of expression.
I also found Ms. Spicher to be very naive, even now, as to the standards, protocols and practices utilized by law enforcement.
I can’t say that I blame Ms. Spicher for trusting law enforcement so blindly. The fact is, she grew up around law enforcement but saw very little about the actual workings of an investigation. Ms. Spicher is the daughter of a well-respected—now retired—deputy with the Klamath Falls Sheriff’s Office.
At times, I found myself questioning if I would be able to exhibit the sort of resilience this woman has. Probably not.
I found DeDe Spicher to be unwavering as to her account of events on June 4th, 2010, and ensuing dates.
It was only a few weeks ago, during a meeting with MCSO detectives Mark Herron and Keith Krafve , investigators unofficially cleared DeDe Spicher of any involvement in Kyron’s disappearance or of having any knowledge of anyone elses. She is hopeful that Multnomah County District Attorney Rod Underhill will issue a public statement from his office clearing her officially.
To date, neither the Multnomah County Sheriffs Office nor the DA’s office has publicly declared any persons cleared in the active investigation.
DeDe is adamant that she was not involved, nor did she ever see anything that led her to believe Terri Horman was involved.
DeDe spoke freely and without hesitation as to the relentless harassment she experienced at the hands of law enforcement.
However, DeDe is adamant that she does not want this piece to express any sort of “pity DeDe” perspective. She does not want anyone to feel sorry for her.
DeDe hopes that by speaking publicly, the public’s curiosity will be satisfied, and the focus of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance can return to an actual investigation.
This is her story.
In Her Own Words
“. . . On a positive note, I have met some really nice people out of all this, so that’s how I choose to look at it. I can’t control other people’s actions or opinions about me…”
“I did not know anything’ I never knew anything ;and I could not get them (law enforcement) to believe me for over three years. ”
“. . . Since the investigation started, I believe they were able to narrow the time I was supposedly missing [never was, never left the property] but they never shared that with me and have not to this day. . ”
“. . . There was no communication between Terri and I since her birthday party in March [2010], and we had only been in touch the December before that [in 2009]. Terri and I were not best buds. I think that was something investigators were really hung up on. They could not understand that I would rush to someone’s aid that on the surface was a more casual friend. They saw that as behavior of someone that had something to hide, or as a motive of some kind…”
What investigators believed that motive was, they certainly never shared with DeDe Spicher.
No Reid School Alum
Investigators pummeled DeDe from the very start: You were missing at the same time that we can’t pin down Terri Horman’s whereabouts. Why did Terri pick you up? Did someone else pick you up and bring you back? We know you left the property, we have proof.
These are questions demanded from DeDe Spicher over and over again, for three straight years. No matter what she did to try to accommodate law enforcement–and she and her attorney Chad Stavely went through extraordinary means by any standards to assist law enforcement–investigators refused to believe she had no knowledge of the circumstances of Kyron’s disappearance. Until now.
DeDe Spicher’s story has never wavered.
DeDe arrived at her job at Westwind Farm Studio–a sprawling and lush forty-plus acre property scheduled to be on the Garden Conservatory Tour the next day. She parked at the main house, left her cell phone which was turned on, and her lunch cooler in her Ford Explorer.
She went inside the main house to check in for her assignment, and for the first time since working there, she was invited to lunch with the others at the house. There was no time set. The invitation was open-ended and she believed based on the timing of her project completions at the opposite end of the property. This was Spicher’s customary daily routine. Her duties in preparation for the garden tour took her to the end of the grounds for the bulk of the morning, near the road. Where she was working, bent over in tall grasses and vegetation is not visible from the main house.
Spicher was not wearing a watch nor carrying her cell phone, and headed to the house for lunch after completing work on one section of the property. When she arrived, she was told that Ms. Hockensmith tried calling DeDe’s name outside when everyone was ready for lunch. When DeDe did not respond and could not be seen from the main house, Ms. Hockensmith also called DeDe’s cell phone. Spicher said she apologized and explained her project’s location and status, and then sat down to eat. DeDe resumed her work day to completion. Her cell phone records confirm this account.
On one occasion, at the request of law enforcement , Spicher agreed to walk the property and demonstrate her activities that day. During one reenactment,, a female investigator attempted to mimic Hockensmith’s “lunch call” while Spicher was out near the property line. Spicher heard the investigator’s call.
“I heard that person that day. They never told me where she was standing, I just know I could not see her which is easy to do if you saw the grounds. I don’t know why I never heard the property owner that day except to say I try to be very mindful when I am working, and gardening is a love of mine I tend to immerse in. It was the first time I was invited to lunch and was looking forward to sharing the meal on break. Had I heard her, I would have stopped immediately and headed in. It was a nice treat. ”
It sounded like an innocent explanation. I asked DeDe why investigators did not believe her.
She responded: I was repeatedly questioned, hounded,my home and belongings were taken and searched for some time. Law enforcement kept telling me in interviews I agreed to participate in, by the way, that the only way to clear myself was to take a polygraph, which my attorney advised me not to. Since I had been told by Terri that she was told she failed when she was adamant that she was being truthful, I had no desire to be set up like that. I do not know to this day if Terri actually failed any polygraphs or law enforcement just told her they did. I know that once she told me that [investigators claimed she failed her polygraph], my advice to her was that she should not speak to anyone without an attorney, but she continued to ignore it, I think for a few more days. As I recall, I don’t think I was the only person or friend telling her that.
Editors Note: blinkoncrime.com has been able to confirm through an independent source which does not wish to be identified publicly, that Terri Horman was referred to her criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze via a family friend and attorney located in Bend, Oregon. Subsequently, Kaine Horman requested a search of the Bend attorney’s property, and indicated that Kyron may have gone there.
It was either completely naive or bold for Spicher to submit to a polygraph under those conditions. She was, by her own account, telling the truth, and then being punished for it.
However, investigators were adamant at “proving” a theory that Spicher left the Westwind Farm. I asked, “Considering there is absolutely no communication between you and anyone else, and you are working on a 40-acre farm on this day, wouldn’t it be true that the theory had to be that. . . ? ”
Spicher interrupted: Yes, that Terri swung by and picked me up for some reason, or some other unknown person. ”
The problem with that theory is that it required another person who was not at the farm to know where Spicher was working that day come meet her, without being seen by anyone else, and without communication with anyone else.
Spicher: “On several occasions,I reminded investigators that there was a witness to where I was working on that property on June 4th 2010, which I surmise would complete whatever timeline holes they thought I had. This has never been released publicly, but there was also an artisan show/market sale on the property the next day. There were a few vendors in and out of the property that day, but I remembered one specifically while I was working near the road that morning. I was there when he dropped off his pots/pottery and whatever else he had to show or sell. ”
The artist/driver who delivered his pottery was in his late twenties to early thirties and drove a red pick up. .
Stoy: So law enforcement knew that there was a witness from day one, that could corroborate your logistics on the property and approximate timing, is that correct?
Spicher: YES!I did not know the man’s name or the name of his creations or anything, and when I asked law enforcement for the information to provide my attorney they refused to even say if they spoke to him, or if they had, if they were now satisfied I was where I said I was and at what time. They declined to provide it to my attorney as well, and by that time Ms. Hockensmith had an attorney as well so I was not permitted to just call and ask her. I even went to the Saturday market a few times to see if I could locate him myself.
Stoy: Why did Ms. Hockensmith need an attorney if you know?
Spicher: I assume it was because all kinds of people were showing up at her property and pounding on the gates, etc. She was hounded by the media for weeks, and all because she gave me a job. I was horrified for her. All because of me.
Stoy: Was there any connection between Hockensmith and the Hormans?
Spicher: Not that I am aware of, they were on completely different socio-economic levels and their kids went to a French American School, not Skyline. I would not even know where they would bump into each other.
Stoy: Has anyone ever mentioned to you whether Hockensmith hired Rudy Sanchez at any time?
Spicher: No. Did she?
Stoy: I am going to need to check my archives on that one, I thought so but I could be confusing her with a different property owner.
(Editors Note: Hockensmith’s friend and fellow farm-owner Jean Ann Von Krevelen did hire RS Landscaping Maintenence. DeDe Spicher was interning with Ms. Von Krevelen, and was referred to Maryellen Hockensmith to work on her property. It was not to be a paid position as Ms. Spicher was willing to ‘work for her sweat” to learn all she could at the time. Spicher said she has never met Rodolpho (Rudy) Sanchez nor has she observed him on either property. )
Frink or Fink- You Decide
So how does a casual friend such as Spicher become elevated to Terri Horman’s lifeline to the outside world, only to turn into the number two suspect in a de facto criminal investigation of Terri Horman?
Frink-in’ thinkin’.
Norman W. Frink, longtime chief deputy district attorney for Multnomah County, was former District Attorney Mike Schrunk’s right hand man. While no longer in office and the DA assignments to Kyron’s investigations are new,there are strong reverbations from the previous administration.
Stoy: You mentioned that law enforcement accused you of wasting their resources and distracting the investigation. In what way did they mean or how did they explain that to you?
Spicher: First it was Chief ADA Norm Frink who said I was wasting their time and resources by not “cooperating,” by which he meant “take their poly[graph]. ” That was just a couple of days before news first broke about my “involvement,” and was all part of his blackmailing me.
Stoy: How do you mean blackmailing you,the DA? Frink?
Spicher: Yes. We were in a meeting/interview and. .
Stoy: Was your attorney present?
Spicher: Yes. Sitting right there. Frink said that we do not think you had anything to do with this, but we do think you have information about Terri Horman’s involvement, and we do think she is involved. Either you take our polygraph, or provide the information we believe you have, or, I don’t care, we will tell the family that we do think you’re involved.
Stoy: What was your response?
Spicher: I said that I understood the need for them to do what they had to do, but that I was not going to tell them something that was not true. I did not really expect them to say something they knew to be false. They did. The next day, my name was released to the press by Desiree Young and Kaine Horman. It was a statement about me not cooperating and I think advising others not to or words to that effect.
Stoy: I am not sure I even know how to respond to that, or if I should during the interview. For me, that is tantamount to telling you that were looking at facing an indictment of your own. I think a reasonable conclusion by someone in your position would have been that you could expect to be arrested for something they knew you did not do, regardless of what it was, to further a case that they seemingly had no evidence in. Again, I find you courageous to have ever had another meeting with any law enforcement officer or DA in this case. I think it would have been very, very easy to say, “Eff this. They are not going to find Kyron with anything I have to offer because I do not know anything, and they are not going to find him by putting words in my mouth against anyone else. I need to protect myself. ” You never did that. Courageous.
Spicher: Thank you, but I really don’t feel courageous. To me courage is when one does something for which they have a great deal of fear. Mostly, I haven’t been afraid, which is what pissed law enforcement off from the very beginning. The one time I was afraid was after the ADA tried to blackmail me and I began to realize I might have to live in a world where the truth didn’t matter. I was not courageous at all in facing that fear.
Stoy: I am not an attorney but based on what you are telling me I don’t see how that is construed as anything but blackmail. He unilaterally gave you 2 choices. Both of which were in contradiction to your 5th amendment rights considering he was ready to make a public criminal allegation about you- does not matter to whom it was.
On the following day, July 22, 2010 Norm Frink made good on his threat to DeDe Spicher.
From The Oregonian, Maxine Bernstein
In a statement late tonight, Kaine Horman and Kyron’s mother, Desiree Young, and Desiree’s husband, Tony Young, said they had been briefed by law enforcement and believe Spicher is hampering the investigation. They implored her to cooperate.
“She has not only been in close communication with Terri but has been providing Terri with support and advice that is not in the best interests of our son,” the statement said. “Additional information provided shows that she is refusing to cooperate with law enforcement, she is also going as far as to suggest to others that may have information regarding Kyron’s disappearance, not to cooperate as well. ”
In one fell swoop DeDe Spicher was the Richard Jewell of Portland, courtesy of Norm Frink.
Nothing grand about the grand jury
Dede Spicher was called before the first grand jury in July 2010. She was never asked any questions. I asked her if she had any information on that grand juries status and whether or not a true bill was sought, sought and denied, suspended, or dismissed.
Spicher: I don’t know any of that, but I believe that it was an election year and it was all DA strategy. I think they called me to scare Terri Horman and maybe Rudy Sanchez.
Stoy: Why do you say Rudy Sanchez? He testified as well, so that has a layer of at least limited use immunity and for all we know he had a separate agreement for what is called transactional immunity. I have no information on that though, he has never responded to my requests for interview.
Spicher: I don’t know, I just know that he is who Terri felt was involved. His name never came up until Terri was asked who had been on the property that was not a friend or relative.
DeDe was again subpoenad to appear before the grand jury on July 10, 2013. She felt that it was her impression that law enforcement and the DA were running out of time due to the civil suit and divorce case, and she read that the grand jury was extended for 6 months previously and about to expire. At the time, the civil case Desiree Young filed against Terri Horman and has since withdrawn was about to resume. A stay had been granted in November 2012, a month before a scheduled hearing to compel further deposition of Spicher in that matter.
DeDe assumed that what she did not know might, potentially, help the investigation by potentially shifting focus away from red herrings as to her knowledge of events. The problem now for Spicher was that the prosecutor had already demonstrated to her that it was not above using almost any means or tactics, and at the time she had concerns that even her own lawyer believed she was telling the truth. Stavley advised her to tell the truth, tell everything she knew. She did, repeatedly.
Stoy: So, you get a subpoena once again to appear before the grand jury. Detectives are telling you to your face they do not believe you. The prosecutor [Frink] has demonstrated he does not believe you. According to what you have shared with me so far, you question if your own attorney believes you. How lonely of a place was that? I think most people would have been completely terrified. How did you cope with your fear?
Spicher: You know I was terrified. It seemed like every time law enforcement would ask me for something, I would provide it, and it was like a fresh new hell each time. It was not going away. I could not even read about the case or discuss it with anyone other than my parents because it was absolutely clear to me that the public now believed I was the obstacle to either solving the case or arresting Terri to solve the case and/or find Kyron and I knew that to be false. The truth did not matter to anyone. I was told this so often I began to even question myself. I won’t forget a conversation I had with a detective about whether or not I was unconsciously suppressing information I did not know I had. I mean, imagine my response to that. I said, well if I am suppressing something, then I think that means I have to wait for it to enter my conscious by way of my subconscious and if and when it does, I would certainly let you know.
Stoy: So what were they suggesting? Hypnosis?
Spicher: No. Although I am not sure I would not have preferred that. My attorney had advised against taking a polygraph. I believed Terri back in June 2010 when she said she was telling the truth and they told her that the lie detector test was saying she was lying and I also knew that even if I agreed to it, that law enforcement was under no obligation to tell me if I passed or failed and even if they did tell me, that I COULD trust that information to be correct. For me, it was not going to be an end to this because I knew that I had been telling the truth and that was not what anyone wanted to hear so what was verifying that going to get me? It was more like the potential beginning of a fresh new hell.
DeDe absolutely believed that her impending grand jury appearance was designed to result in her facing some sort of charge for something that investigators believed would lead her to ultimately implicate Terri Horman in Kyron’s disappearance. In fact, she was told that what was an honest tax mistake/error on her part after she ended up being paid a nominal amount by Mrs. Hockensmith but never received a 1099, could end up placing her in hot water. The Capone tactic for a woman that took the job with the understanding that it was not a paid endeavor and when Ms. Hockensmith told Spicher she wanted to compensate her she declined. Hockensmith insisted.
On this basis, DeDe was advised to and agreed to an immunity deal. The terms of which are under seal and Spicher nixed discussing citing a verbal agreement she made until such time as it is unsealed.
A source inside the investigation who does not wish to be identified as they are not authorized to speak publicly on the case- has confirmed that Spicher’s agreement includes provisions that she continue to cooperate with law enforcement as needed, be available to testify in any proceedings, and to take a polygraph.
Spicher declined to say to whom she committed to not discuss the agreement but that it also included neither party discussing that she had testified before the grand jury.
It would appear that Ms. Spicher is the only one keeping up her end of the bargain as Attorney Rosenthal announced publicly that DeDe Spicher had testified- a fact that to this day she has no idea how he came by that information.
Spicher appeared before the grand jury for five and a half hours on July 10, 2013.
Because grand jury proceedings are secret, and the DA, grand jurors, and state court personnel are barred from discussing the goings on, the only person who can speak to a witness’ testimony is the witness. In this case, the grand jury witness is DeDe Spicher.
Stoy: So before we get into the particulars, could you sum up those hours in the room at all- would you compare it to the civil deposition you endured by Desiree Young’s attorney Mr. Rosenthal?
Spicher: (laughs) No. It was far more comprehensive. I am referring to the civil deposition.
Stoy: When asked about your weight, you were far more reserved and eloquent than I would have been. . . . If someone asked me my weight at a deposition, I would have said I did not know but would be glad to sit on him and let him guess.
Spicher: I know, right? Not me, I am direct, I had nothing to hide, and I was not intimidated in the least.
Stoy: So without telling me what questions you were asked specifically, what would you characterize as your testimony ?
Spicher: They were obsessed with my sexuality. Was I a lesbian,what were my thoughts on homosexuals: Did I ever have a threesome with anyone, with Kaine and Terri, etc. I was thinking if I were a juror, I would be like, what does this have to do with anything? I answered every question respectfully and honestly but my takeaway is that some folks still have a hard time believing that I would rush to a friend’s aid if we had not been in contact, or particularly close in the first place. I responded that when your friend texts “I need you now,” I got in my car and headed over there. There was never a question in my mind. Even if I knew that everything that happened to me over the last 3 years would happen all over again, I would do the same thing today. That’s what friends do. I also testified when it was clear that sentiment was not shared by some, that I certainly was hopeful that they never needed a friend “immediately”.
Because of the travel time ,Spicher requested that since investigators wanted to give her the polygraph in Portland, that they schedule it for the day after the grand jury. It was easier for her to extend her time in Portland than to have to return again. They agreed.
Upon arrival, although Spicher was prepared for, and extended her visit to take the polygraph as committed, she was told that they had decided that because she was on the stand for such a grueling afternoon the day before that they never want to give anyone a polygraph after such an experience- as it might skew the results. She made a mental note that they had told her previously that one’s emotional state and exhaustion level are taken into consideration in a polygraph. In other words, while investigators were telling her Terri Horman previously failed her polygraphs, and she asked them if that could have been due to the fact that she went through hours and hours of interviews just prior to the exams, investigators now had a different story.
Herron Hamster Wheel
Mark Herron and Keith Krafve began the interview the same exact way they had for years.
“We still can’t seem to put together the right timeline from when you were at the property. ” And on again it went. Spicher continued the interview as she had agreed to, but informed them that if this was her time use that to perform the polygraph they would need to travel to Klamath Falls on their own dime.
They did just that. DeDe Spicher passed the polygraph administered by the same Gresham sheriff’s deputy who administered the polygraph exam to Terri Horman. Spicher says in particular, Mark Herron was jubilant. She said it was like a party atmosphere. Spicher was verklempt:
‘Well, I am happy that you are happy, I guess, but the thing is, I have been telling you the same thing for three years so I guess I am just happy you’re happy ”
Herron went on to blame Spicher for the thousands of hours, and dollars that her refusal to take a polygraph cost the investigation. Then, they asked to speak to Spicher’s attorney privately, outside of her presence. She agreed.
After a few minutes*, they called Spicher back in and asked for her permission to meet with her privately without her attorney. Spicher and her attorney agreed.
Krafve starts by telling her: We are so glad you are on the team finally. This is such a big step in this case and you are really one of us.
Then, the hook.
We asked to speak to you without (your attorney) because we would like you to participate in a sting against Terri. We can’t ask you in front of counsel, and you cannot tell him what we said because he will then be obligated to make some calls as a member of the bar and all that.
Spicher asks if she can at least discuss it with her dad, a retired deputy with the Klamath Falls Sheriff’s Office. Herron said she could, but that he could not discuss it with her attorney, either.
Spicher told them it was 10: 00 PM , and reminded them that she has not had any contact with Terri since July 2010. Spicher told investigators that she was not comfortable with the proposal and would definitely need to sleep on it. They told her they would follow up with her.
Stavley, presumably uncomfortable with law enforcement’s request to meet with this client without him, asked Spicher to tell him what the meeting was about. She told her attorney that it was something they told her she could not tell him and that she wanted to get out of there and discuss it later. Stavley said he was not at all comfortable with that arrangement, and within hours Spicher told him that law enforcement wanted her to participate in a sting operation.
It was not until last week that Detective Krafve contacted Spicher directly to follow up on their request for DeDe Spicher to participate in a surreptitiously recorded sting where she was to call Terri Horman, and at the direction of law enforcement, read from a prepared agenda to include coaching by them.
Spicher declined.
* Edit to reflect changing the word twenty to “a few” for accuracy. 9/11/13 4:43 PM EST
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RE: vw says:
September 5, 2013 at 5:45 pm
Just one comment about the sexting.
*************
Below is a link to a news article regarding TH’s texts, which includes a copy of the “sexts” as well as the pleading to which they were attached. The pleading was filed in court and TH had an opportunity to object to the authenticity of the text exhibit. Had TH’s attorneys believed the text exhibit had been doctored, they could have also filed a motion for sanctions against KH’s attorneys, which would not have required TH to testify. But TH’s attorneys did not object to the pleading and did not file a motion for sanctions.
essay- what statute or family court process and procedure are you referring to please? Links?
B
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_calls_his_estrang.html
@MBS. So poetic, can we call you Ode2?
I suggest the “bottom feeder” is Nessie, who would stand out
if the County-taxpayer funded crew (which seems to lack a Captn
unless it is Bligh), were not playing in the shallows
and had the skills to surf with a shark. (sorry for mixed metaphor)
Not forge, but perhaps misrepresent. Just a thought. I’m not believing much of what has been represented in the past to the media, or the allegations in the divorce documents. They could be true, but I’m just not taking them at face value. I don’t trust “the sources.”
Amys Sister says:
September 5, 2013 at 4:26 pm
erose says:
September 5, 2013 at 1:51 pm
@Amys Sister, How do we know we can believe the nutter butter story, or anything else we’ve been fed (ugh) for that matter?
_________
snip>
I do not believe Kaine would forge the texts.
Just a short comment on “Odd Thomas‘” face book page. This is only my opinion but when I was between F5 hits at Blinks I did peruse his postings and I do believe…jmo…that his ending postings before his site was shut down …seemed to indicate he had been duped or mislead by someone. He seemed sure that an arrest was going to be made after information was release about Dede’s testimony in front of the grand jury. No arrest was made of anyone. I wonder what hands may have been pulling his strings, if any. Did he realize that Dede had been telling the truth all along and others were lying to him?
@Rose says:
September 4, 2013 at 10:42 pm
lol, I can’t find what I am looking for, but I found what you were looking for. It’s indexed oddly within google, but here you go.
http://wwwdev.catlin.edu/blog/kroppr/interrogation-w-river-patrol-day-2
(Rose says) looked back for an example I’d found of Herron’s interview technique while on River Patrol, recounted by a ride along high school intern student:
(Link says) Herron was telling me about some interrogation strategies. He said the best one is to do the small talk thing, bullshit for a while and make them comfortable with you and that will help them open up and something might slip or they might willingly share with you.
“Spicher: Yes. Sitting right there. Frink said that we do not think you had anything to do with this, but we do think you have information about Terri Horman’s involvement, and we do think she is involved. Either you take our polygraph, or provide the information we believe you have, or, I don’t care, we will tell the family that we do think you’re involved.
Stoy: What was your response?
Spicher: I said that I understood the need for them to do what they had to do, but that I was not going to tell them something that was not true. I did not really expect them to say something they knew to be false. They did. The next day, my name was released to the press by Desiree Young and Kaine Horman. It was a statement about me not cooperating and I think advising others not to or words to that effect.
(snipped)
“On the following day, July 22, 2010 Norm Frink made good on his threat to DeDe Spicher.”
So Stavley’s quote about not being surprised if Terri was arrested, was made on July 30, was actually based on Dede being bullied by LE? Do I have that right? If so, I hope he clarifies that in his press release, should he release one. I know that comment sent some people into not only Terri did it mode, but Dede must have something to do with it.
Dede said she hasn’t talked to Terri since July 2010. Was that before or after Frink’s ultimatum?
Did Terri & Houze know about Dede being intimidated by LE at that time, or did the statement from the family, come as a surprise to them as well. That statement made everyone appear guilty, Terri, Dede and friends.
(You know, this now makes Desiree & Kaine’s shock and awe look when told that Dede was going before the GJ the first time make sense now. If they knew this was all BS, they had to be asking themselves, WTFF?)
Dede, if you’re out there. Question, other than trying to get away from all of this, which I can certainly understand, was there any other reason you didn’t talk with Terri after that? I mean, were you advised by your attorney not to have any contact with her? I know for me, if she’d been my friend, and I’d already put myself into such a position as to support her come hell or high water, it would have been very difficult for me to leave her stranded. Just curious.
It was Terri’s counsel who advised she cut off contact- not DeDe’s call.
B
@wvie. TY. What bothered me was he interviewed
burglar suspect alone, did not issue Miranda warning,
& did not include Miranda item in student teaching.
Earlier I asked …
Q2: LE asked her to participate in the sting but she couldn’t tell her lawyer because “he would be obligated to make some calls.” Who would he be obligated to call / what would he be obligated to divulge and why?
There is simply no reasonable and/or lawful explanation for that behavior.
B
————————————-
OHHHH, I get it now … it is another one of those LE untruths. I had to have it spelled out, that’s my blonde coming through.
, but obviously not!
Thanks Amys Sister for your encouragement on the last thread
Thanks B, I just wondered at whose counsel, figured it was one or the other. Tuff decision for a friend to have to make. Following this case, it just amazes me how many simple acts can (and sometimes will) be construed as devious. There but for the Grace of God…….
RE: essay- what statute or family court process and procedure are you referring to please? Links?
B
*********
http://www.osbar.org/_docs/rulesregs/orpc.pdf
Okay, I’m lame, what the heck does F5 do? Is it just refresh?
@GeorgiaDad says:
September 5, 2013 at 10:44 am
Kudos. Yes, I think we all get so caught up, me included, that sometimes we let our mouths (texts, types, whateveh) go further than we intended.
Great post. Thank you.
***************
I can remember a little over two years ago, walking into a friend of mine’s church rec center and there posted on the wall was the poster Desiree put out about *go ask Terri* or whatever the heck it said. (Not the Kyron Horman missing poster.) I was in shock, this was posted inside a church. I asked the friend I was with what she thought about the situation. Her answer was: *Oh, everyone knows she did it.* I didn’t start the ” how do you know that?” conversation, then and there, but I did bring it up later. Poster is not up anymore, but I gotta’ say, that made me stand up and take notice of how many people were prosecuting this person without due process. Turned my stomach, and reminded me of tars and feathers.
Good grief.
quizzical says:
September 5, 2013 at 6:39 pm
Posted today at about 3:20pm on Anti-Terri
———————–
Desiree Davidson Young Also…DeDe – why use “throw away” phones to call and talk to Terri on and after 6/4/10 if you have nothing to hide and you are innocent. Oh and wait that means you were in contact with Terri after March 2010????? So many holes in this story I can’t even keep up. And those are just the ones that are public and we can talk about. And yes not one bit of this is about Kyron or finding Kyron. What happened to “find Kyron first”?
Ky I love you my sweetie and I pray that your life will become the number one priority again to people like this. Please know that I love you and would give my life for you. Momma’s still here.
****************
Oh my quizz, thanks for the link.
Could any reporter please call LE right now and verify whether or not this statement is true: (because if it is, it’s an exclusive!)
“DeDe – why use “throw away” phones to call and talk to Terri ****on****and after 6/4/10 if you have nothing to hide and you are innocent. ”
T.Ruth impersonating Rose, LOL.
I almost gave the shaky index finger for not reading my response to quizzie before I got the snark.
Been a long few days
B
@Rose says:
September 5, 2013 at 9:04 pm
@wvie. TY. What bothered me was he interviewed
burglar suspect alone, did not issue Miranda warning,
& did not include Miranda item in student teaching.
=============================
I asked a LE friend of mine about this bad practice and he told me it’s a widespread problem, (HIS opinion). Often times, when detectives are alone with witnesses or suspects (without corroborating LE or other witnesses to say if they did this or not)they choose to not read/give Miranda rights and to question as much as they can “off the record”.
Who would be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt they did this with no witnesses? Their goal is to get as much information as possible, period. He said partners will often intentionally not be around (leave to check something out) in order for this to happen.
He was not saying every LE officer/detective practices this, and made sure to reiterate that point to me, but did say he believed it was a widespread problem.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
@Ode says:
September 5, 2013 at 7:52 pm
Dang good question.
Mom3.0 posted:
Blink once wrote:
“According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.”
____
Blink,
If this (approx)11:15am phone call is true, what phone would that have been if we are now reading that DDS left her phone in her vehicle?
I note y’all are not linking to context so I am going from memory- Keep in mind I think it is fair to say that as cases develop, so does the updated or correct information when working with a direct source.
The call or calls made from Hockensmith regarding lunch were made to DeDe’s cell phone, which was not a burner phone, but her usual and longtime phone, which was switched on and located in her explorer as I wrote.
For anyone that missed it earlier ( and I know that is not you because you miss nothing) – DDS never had a prepaid or burner phone until after June 29th 2010. Any assertions to the contrary are false.
That phone was was the subject of a search warrant, and returned to DDS after a copy of it’s contents and records were made. The activations and serial on that phone have been confirmed by LE as to the purchase date and activation, and frankly, it’s use was monitored.
Lots of misinformation floating around, I appreciate you asking, wpg.
B
quizzical says:
September 5, 2013 at 6:39 pm
Posted today at about 3:20pm on Anti-Terri
-snip
Desiree Davidson Young Also…DeDe – why use “throw away” phones to call and talk to Terri on and after 6/4/10 if you have nothing to hide
————
about the phones
-snip
A friend of Terri Horman said the secret phones were intended to provide some level of privacy with their conversations, which they felt were being monitored by law enforcement. She said they also wanted to use phones with numbers not known to the press.
The phones were purchased after Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, moved out of the family’s home.
The friend, who is NOT DeDe Spicher, went to the Lloyd Center and bought a prepaid cell phone at an electronic store. The friend now says she regrets using a fake name and that it was “stupid” and “spur of the moment.”
She said the phone she bought was for herself to use and not for Terri Horman.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100161574.html
This is what I am saying. Thanks for posting the link cd
B
erose says:
September 5, 2013 at 7:47 pm
Not forge, but perhaps misrepresent. Just a thought. I’m not believing much of what has been represented in the past to the media, or the allegations in the divorce documents. They could be true, but I’m just not taking them at face value. I don’t trust “the sources.”
_____
That’s wise considering all that has happened and where we are today. I’m probably the last person here to see the patterns many of you wise posters saw long ago. Actually, I saw the patterns to a degree but I was duped into believing they were actually going somewhere, ie… the arrest and charges against the perpetrator/s who took Kyron Horman.
If LE has been lying to Desiree and using her as a puppet (on top of lying to the Skyline community about a known threat to their children)…
There really are no words.
Well, there are. Move this investigation into the hands of professionals who act with honor, truth, and integrity so we might actually get some answers as to what happened to this precious little guy. My son is Ky’s age and he’s changed so much since June’04… playing football, writing comics, riding his bike out and about, becoming a young man. I am so sorry Desiree has missed out on watching her boy grow up.
For me, the really true takeaway was that regardless of who has formed a theory on who is responsible, nobody can deny that this case has been mishandled to outcomes we probably do not even know.
B
@Dale says:
September 5, 2013 at 4:30 am
I respect your opinions and value your input and thoughts on this matter. I would like to understand why you feel DeDe and Terri obstructed justice? They both cooperated with LE more than once answering their questions. They both were told by LE they were not believed and bullied because they were not telling LE what they wanted to hear. I would like to you to answer honestly here…if you were being questioned for hours and hours repeatedly by LE and telling the same truth over and over and they did not believe your story…what would you do? If LE was setting up sting operations to entrap you, when innocent, and actually helped your spouse obtain a restraining order and protective order that took custody of your 18 month old daughter from you….Would you then hire an attorney to help you…even when innocent? Maybe not the first, second or third time, but eventually you would right? If you agreed to a poly and told the 100% truth but were told you failed or were not telling everything you know, but YOU KNEW you were telling the truth, would you then seek counsel?
Once you hire a lawyer…you will no longer talk to LE without their presence. Your attorney will advise you of this and will surely drop you as a client if you do not adhere to this. In this case, LE chose to never ask Terri another question after she hired an attorney. They could do this at anytime…it’s been 3 years, and they have not. How has she obstructed justice? All she did was hire an attorney, as she should have IMO.
If this were you going through this…how can they say you’ve obstructed justice? It is our constitutional right and the foundation of our justice system, do you disagree with that?
I’m with you and everyone else here that Kyron is the most important person in all of this…he must be found and brought home.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
wait a sec. who has never publicly stated his wherabouts on june 4 2010 and also told his co-workers not to talk about anything regarding kyrons disapearance? who has refused a deposition, by way of dropping a r/o so that neither himself nor mcdonnel would have to testify under oath? who has always said no comment, except when they have something to say that might incriminate tmh or dd? who has really been wrecking this case by keeping silent?
news reports have previously confirmed that dd spicher has talked to le and was willing to speak at the gj from the beginning. the only time that we knew she ever didnt answer every question was in a non le civi suit aimed at her friend. the same suit that was right at the part where desiree and tony were to be deposed.i am pretty dern sure that desiree and ty had no involvement in kyrons disapearance but i am also pretty darn sure that some le truths (falsehoods) would have come out if they were sworn under oath to fill out those depositions. when is the whole truth going to come out in this case? is that what will hurt an ongoing investigation? the Truth? it seems to me that le doesnt mind irrevocably trashing someone elses reputation if they can save theirs. what is wrong with saying we are going in a new direction and have ruled out tmh and dd? isnt the most important thing supposed to be FINDING KYRON?
Yes, we had a meeting and you missed it. It’s anonymous, of course, but it’s for those of us that keeping hitting F5 (refresh) button time and again in anticipation for other’s input and Blink’s revelations.
T. Ruth says:
September 5, 2013 at 10:59 pm
Okay, I’m lame, what the heck does F5 do? Is it just refresh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning
Snipped:
The Miranda warning, also referred to as Miranda rights, is a warning given by police in the United States to criminal suspects in police custody (or in a custodial interrogation) before they are interrogated to preserve the admissibility of their statements against them in criminal proceedings.
The Miranda warning is part of a preventive criminal procedure rule that law enforcement is required to administer to protect an individual who is in custody and subject to direct questioning or its functional equivalent from a violation of his or her Fifth Amendment right against compelled self-incrimination. In Miranda v. Arizona, the Supreme Court held that the admission of an elicited incriminating statement by a suspect not informed of these rights violates the Fifth and the Sixth Amendment right to counsel.[Note 1] Thus, if law enforcement officials decline to offer a Miranda warning to an individual in their custody, they may interrogate that person and act upon the knowledge gained, but may not use that person’s statements to incriminate him or her in a criminal trial.[
Snipped:
The Supreme Court did not specify the exact wording to use when informing a suspect of his/her rights. However, the Court did create a set of guidelines that must be followed. The ruling states:
…The person in custody must, prior to interrogation, be clearly informed that he/she has the right to remain silent, and that anything the person says will be used against that person in court; the person must be clearly informed that he/she has the right to consult with an attorney and to have that attorney present during questioning, and that, if he/she is indigent, an attorney will be provided at no cost to represent him/her.
***This law reiterates the right to an attorney (PRIOR to being questioned) to the point of providing an attorney free of charge if one can not be afforded.***
This Right/Warning is supposed to be given/read in every instance…so how can it be “an obstruction of justice” if one elects to have counsel present when questioned?
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
@erose & TRuth says:
September 6, 2013 at 12:17 am
Yes, we had a meeting and you missed it. It’s anonymous, of course, but it’s for those of us that keeping hitting F5 (refresh) button time and again in anticipation for other’s input and Blink’s revelations.
T. Ruth says:
September 5, 2013 at 10:59 pm
Okay, I’m lame, what the heck does F5 do? Is it just refresh?
===========================
“F5-ism” is the Blinksters AA type addiction to hitting the refresh button to get the latest updates and articles. LOL!
I just love y’all! Hitting F5 again now…
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
@sam h says:
September 6, 2013 at 12:14 am
================
Not sure if this was your intended meaning, but your post has me rethinking the cancellation of the civil lawsuit.
It never occurred to me that it was cancelled to prevent KH, DY or TY or LE’s depositions that would surely be required.
I always assumed LE had asked DY to drop it to protect the case.
Wow…just WoW! That is beginning to make more sense to me.
I’ll have to ponder that for a bit for sure…but the wheels are spinning.
Thank you!
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
Maybe some of the others are the wise ones, but I am a former member of the duped club. Keyword now is former. We can’t change the past. Where do we go from here? How do we properly advocate for Kyron?
Amys Sister says:
September 5, 2013 at 11:48 pm
The only way I know how to advocate for this child is to seek the truth, where ever it may lead. Blink has been saying that since day one. That’s why I read and post here.
One more thang. Since BOC s back in the news, I have read on the new site blogs some criticism of the format here. I just want to say I love it and here’s why; first I appreciate a moderated site for reasons I have stated in prior posts, and second I love that a slew of comments come in at the same time, and none of us knows what the other is thinking or posting. We have to go out on a limb with our thoughts. It is a great touchstone, and I hope it never changes.
I sincerely appreciate that erose. The moderation by me is by design and commitment, but I honestly have never done something I know to do professionally- forever ago. I never focus-grouped me, lol.
I can see how the comments being moderated together creates a different experience. Had not considered that so thank you.
B
From ms. b’s article,
“They did just that. DeDe Spicher passed the polygraph administered by the same Gresham sheriff’s deputy who administered the polygraph exam to Terri Horman. Spicher says in particular, Mark Herron was jubilant. She said it was like a party atmosphere. Spicher was verklempt:
‘Well, I am happy that you are happy, I guess, but the thing is, I have been telling you the same thing for three years so I guess I am just happy you’re happy ”
Herron went on to blame Spicher for the thousands of hours, and dollars that her refusal to take a polygraph cost the investigation. Then, they asked to speak to Spicher’s attorney privately, outside of her presence. She agreed.”
+++++++
This just astounds me. Why are they happy that Dede passed the poly? Herron the erudite detective wannbe, no experience in missing/abducted child cases, and Keith, the sued shark? They are estactic for Dede? Finally putting an end to the misery they have induced? Hell after hell. Antis calling her work in K.Falls to say they employ a child-murderer.
No…they then berate her for making THEIR jobs more difficult. She would NOT play the game and give them SOMETHING, ANYTHING to imprison TMH and/or herself. (As if Kyron came into it at all).
I’m shedding tears for the boys right now. Those women! Would not incriminate themselves nor each other.
Give up and admit the obvious. They killed and disposed of a little 7 y/o and would not admit it. Or, at the very least, one knew and never betrayed the other.
Now…finally…one does not have to “worry” and can betray the other? That is what they are so happy about?
Now we have the perfect “sting” about to be deployed. Heck. We almost had it with that yard guy…we for sure will get it here….TMH won’t know who hit her.
What is with these idiots? No wonder they barely have to have a GED to get where they are. A sting on TMH?
What’s Houze gonna say when she calls him from her Roseburg doorstep….or on the other line?
“Steve…Dede is calling to get in touch…been 3 years…can I trust her cuz she’s asking those same questions about where was I when I was drivin’ round?”
The major tenet at work here that they don’t get? Some women, some people, are not willing to turn on others just to make LE’s lies, 101 level tactics and borderline illegal overtime justified.
Dede believed TMH was not involved and framed. Nothing she could do for them at that point would ever make a lie the truth. Nor should it. Dede has good instincts. Women’s intuition?
K..end of menopausal rant. BTW What’s the definition of menopause?
Answer: A pause to consider men. (IIRC that was Margaret Atwood?)
LOL. I burned my broken elbow with the ice pack last week- I can be of no assistance
B
ah. I don’t hit F5 to break, just Candy Crush Lvl 134, to my daughter’s shock.
After mastering Angry Birds every variety all levels, CC’s result, I told dau, is I no longer have reading focus or can sustain attention.
@Blink. I resemble that remark but to put me in any sentence with TRuth I consider a
compliment. Can we follow up with erose? Tonite I have spent with Christmas Revels on YouTube (daughter perfs of course), and a goodly Dona Nobis Pacem to all.
—
re “Desiree Davidson Young Also…DeDe – why use “throw away” phones to call and talk to Terri on and after 6/4/10 if you have nothing to hide and you are innocent. Oh and wait that means you were in contact with Terri after March 2010?????”
—
Oh, gosh, dear dear Desiree. You could not have read Blink’s piece.
The nameless OL author widget got the March 2010 quote totally wrong from the interview & still has not corrected.
wrt to “throwaway phones” to talk if you are innocent. I will pretend this is not DY so I can expostulate.
My daughter is innocent. She went to a camp Meadowmount in Adirondacks NY for 7 weeks. No ATT service. Nessie voices whispered to us “go to the Lake”. Only place to maybe get service, Apparently if one is lucky ATT waves waft over from VT occasionally. Supposed to be wifi in one camp loc, but often turned off to punish 18 yo boys.
Without ATT, I myself on visits had no gps, no email, no texts, no calls. Never mind my daughter. I was bereft.
She kept saying, “I’m calling with a friend’s phone.” Hah!
Her Dad took an old verizon phone of his & created a 2 month burner, sneakily,
when no one much less me, cared. But somehow they thot it was “bad” or “cheating”
to use a makeshift phone while paying for “real” phone subscription.
So I totally understand why the gals who had no service on Terri’s then-property both needed but were ashamed of their transient communication systems.
So I remember when I thought you were speaking on code, and now I know your language, lol.
I had a similar experience with Blinkette when traveling internationally this Spring. In spite of all the global and international services I put on her iphone way ahead of time, the girls had to chat at $40 a second.
Another 10 years off my life so I am sure I am aging like my pup.
B
maybe tmh has a sexual addiction, and maybe she would sext when her stepson had been abducted and her husband had set her up with a sting. he knew totally about the sting, thats why he left with kiara when he did. maybe the bat phones were as stated because of bad reception, maybe they were poor judgment by tmh and friends. none of that equals “killed her stepson, is hiding his body”
if there is evidence of tmh involment then charge her or publicly say she is a suspect (LE) if not then le has tainted this case so badly that they could never get a conviction to stick even if she did do it or is an accomplice.
As to dede and tj, if i had been treated so poorly by le and the press i would hell yes tell my family my side of everything. I would hope my cousin wouldnt go blabbing it in a blog somewhere. And if i had been villified by le and then told, as everyone else in this case has, you cant talk about any of this, i myself might talk to people magazine ad i might even ask my cousin to get my side out. It wouldnt help, and might make things worse, but everyone on this forum has to admit that dede having her pic on that flyer, having the bios tell the world that “le says” she knows and is hindering…and all the press coverage bias against her would make even her own mother doubt her innocence. What if that happened to you? If the only way le can get convictions is by deceit and intimidation then we should all move to a different country. We fought numerous wars against people that did that to their citizens. When we ok the misuse of the law because we “think” someone is guilty we become a lawless society.
totally ditto to erose. and the out on a limb comment. We are a tree.
I have seen Blink as a creative visual artist & never care if my post here or there is timed
not in sync, because she is creating a group tapistry. Thanks to my chatacterological
new foe (CCrush) & a phone set to Oct 2014, at times my isp is not recognized so see the tapistry
everyone else sees. Blink is an Intelligent Design Artist.
& kudos to all woof & warf fellow-commenters.
@Sam
Nice at 1:16am. Only 10:16 here. Time to get the voolfette to bed.
@Blink – given all that is being said now about the conduct of LE in this case, do you think they would have gone so far as to write (or rewrite) the “hateful emails” Desiree spoke of? I wonder if she actually knows who supposedly received them – if she was given the name of the recipient, then that person would have had to cooperate with LE to allow them to make changes or use the person’s name in that way (if they did). (If she doesn’t have a copy of the emails (IIRC), then I can’t imagine her not trying to talk to the recipient of the emails about them to get more information.)
Why would LE do this (if they did)? To use DY to pressure TH to respond – to make any statement at all that would open the door to more. Since the emails in question are in the possession of LE, then LE could simply refrain from using them as evidence (knowing they are made up) and TH could not challenge the content or her authorship.
Letting DY believe they might be used as evidence would keep her from going too far when talking about them.
NOT, repeat NOT saying this is true – just asking Blink if it is a possibility. I know LE can lie for investigative purposes, but does that include creating materials to serve as temporary “fake evidence”? To me, having LE create something on their own would be different from setting up a situation (like the sexting) where the “suspect” is actually participating.
I would like to believe that what would clearly end up as evidence someday could never be manufactured for the simple reason that obviously be illegal. I have no confirmation of this, but it is my opinion only that something was interpreted or manipulated out of context.
I mean, if one really believes there are hate emails about a 7 year old that is missing, do we really think that they would not be discussed in the plethora of legal filings in this case or that DY is not using those to further the civil suit? I don’t.
That said, from my recent interview, and what I will be covering in the continuation of this piece, I have zero faith in what seems to be disseminated as told to Kyron’s parents and every faith that the some of the assets assigned to this case have made investigatively catastrophic choices.
B
*googling ‘burner phone’*
Dear Headlights, O_O Sincerely, Deer. ~clueless~
LOL. The list of nicknames for them is endless. I refer to them as batphones in practice.
B
Speaking of moderation- Blink is my post lost?
Mom3.0 says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
September 5, 2013 at 6:33 pm
I just wanted to make sure you read it as it was my apology
If you did read it, i take the non posting as a very loud hint to Shhhhh
Still I am sorry you felt I questioned your integrity.
Nope, just posted my response. I needed to think on it by using my non-violent communication techniques, lol.
As an off topic to all- I have a recommended read that has nothing to do with this case or really criminology. Marshall Rosenberg’s Non Violent Communication. Best gift you can ever give yourself.
B
sam h says:
September 6, 2013 at 12:14 am
Exactly the angle that seems to be missing in this geometric puzzle—at the center of which is a missing child.
If the information we have is correct about K being seen in school after TMH left, TMH being placed in the pharmacies without K, and her undocumented period of time occurring much later, then it is obvious that she did not act alone. So there is at least a co-conspirator out there. Even if TMH were the mastermind, there has to be someone else who performed the actual kidnapping. Why hasn’t LE made a public appeal to identify this co-conspirator, who would be at least as guilty as TMH?
My gut feeling is that TMH is the prime suspect because LE has no other suspects.
As far as clearing TMH of any involvement, the only way this can be done with any certainty is to solve the case. It appears that TMH did not remove K from the school. But it would be nearly impossible to rule out some sort of conspiracy unless SZ is identified. The cloud of suspicion will likely hover over TMH the rest of her life, without regard to her guilt or innocence.
I absolutely agree.
As an aside, noteworthy:
http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20130906/US-Death-Row-Woman/
In prison 20 years for killing her child on a detectives “word” of a confession- it happens.
thank you, Blink.
You’ve cleared the fog that obstructed the truth.
sam h says:
September 6, 2013 at 1:16 am
maybe tmh has a sexual addiction, and maybe she would sext when her stepson had been abducted and her husband had set her up with a sting. he knew totally about the sting, thats why he left with kiara when he did. maybe the bat phones were as stated because of bad reception, maybe they were poor judgment by tmh and friends. none of that equals “killed her stepson, is hiding his body”
(snipped)
_____
I don’t know Sam, that sounds good on paper but in real life?
A seven year old boy you have raised is missing. You initiate a conversation about the color of your hair with your stepsons mother as you’re waiting for LE to find the child.
Your husband has left with your baby girl. You call a casual friend to come stay with you, have a cocktail, and sext your husbands buddy for almost a week.
From these two accounts Terri seemed fairly nonchalant that Ky was missing. Of course it doesn’t prove she killed Kyron, but it is a factor in the investigation, particularly when she’s choosing to behave this way knowing there is an investigation taking place. She had to have known how important is was to be able to eliminate her as a suspect. LE would be remiss if they did not consider the behavior of all family members in the days and weeks following Kyron’s abduction.
The behavior of LE, the media, the bios… separate issue and one I am thankful Blink has chosen to bring focus to.
You know, from my perspective, I think TH was quite clear she needed to be eliminated as a suspect. The amount of interviews she agreed to and of course polygraphs verifies this. LE lost her cooperation when they staged that sting debacle and it was painfully obvious that le was not interested in clearing her, they were interested in arresting her for something. At that point, she had to protect her rights and I don’t blame her for that one iota. Keep in mind, multiple people were telling her to seek counsel before she actually did. That says something to me investigatively.
B
“For me, the really true takeaway was that regardless of who has formed a theory on who is responsible, nobody can deny that this case has been mishandled to outcomes we probably do not even know.”
B
____
Dear Blink,
I hope it’s not too late.
I don’t believe anything is ever too late if the right assets and the right strategy is executed.
Kyron was not the victim of an alien tractor beam.
Thanks for the compliment, Rose. Back at you. And yes I was being my snarky ol’ self.
As an off topic to all- I have a recommended read that has nothing to do with this case or really criminology. Marshall Rosenberg’s Non Violent Communication. Best gift you can ever give yourself.
B
~~~~~
whatya mean by that?…:)
lol, you will have to read it.
B
Did she say anything about JW?
Not that I would repeat, lol. I actually think I may have contributed more to that conversation.
B
@Rose, Tree, tapestry and artist. Love it.
I did a google search ~ “cops lie to get conviction” and got nearly 6 million results.
One that caught my eye was the wrongful conviction of Tim Masters. He has since been cleared and released after DNA evidence and years of defense attorney efforts. The LE Officer that clinched the case is now being indicted on perjury charges in numerous cases.
See this video of LE attempting to coax a confession of 15 year old Tim Masters.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/18/masters.cops/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
I can certainly feel how frustrating DeDe’s and Terri’s ordeal has been even more so watching this clip.
I studied this case ad nauseum. Iirc, Eikenbloom’s lab essentially cleared him. Pioneer of Touch DNA, and btw used in the Ramsey case.
B
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
@amys sister
i totally agree with your post about tmh behaviour. i find it odd and unlike the reaction of anyone i have ever witnessed that is distraught over the disappearance of their stepson. at the beginning of Kyrons disapearance this fueled my belief that tmh definately did this crime. It was only later when we heard about the many hours spent interrogating her on june 4 and the polys given under extreme emotional duress. Le or the bios never mentioned any of these things.then we were aware of tmh online expressing her shock at being blamed for this. I would say from experience, that she may have been in shock followed by a case of what we call the f-its. the f-its is when you realize that no matter what you do you are screwed and go into past destructive behaviours like drinking and sex to dissociate from what is happening that you have no control over.
i have learned that when we think someone is guilty we only look for evidense to confirm our suspicions and disregard evidence to the contrary, it is human nature. tmh may have mental health issues, and from what we have seen of kaines manipulation and disregard for both tmh and desiree, she may have had these problems all through the marriage, kyrons disapearance only making them worse and highlighting them.
that is why i still believe that tmh may not be guilty, i have no way of knowing, she just as well may have been involved. my point still is though that these reactions are not enough to prove she was involved. desiree seems to keep saying something like ‘she hated kyron and killed him, she knows where he is’ that cant be an accurate statement because tmh has an aliby for the actual time of disapearance so this leads me to believe it is emotional statements not based on fact. this is very understandable under the circumstances. the problem i have is that le is doing nothing and has done nothing to provide any evidence or clear any of this up. the fact that people are blaming tmh and dede for their “silence” hindering the investigation is totally factless, the ones refusing depositions are the bios and le. that is factual. i would just for once like the bios to stop sayiing things like we have evidense but we cant talk about it. that shows le manipulation of them just like the manipulation le has used toward the suspects. just my lengthy opinion, begging for some facts, truths, and evidense.
If I may, back to FlyMonkey, friend of DDS.
FlyMonkey, imo, gave certain perceptions on behavior, if you will. Perceptions that were not all seen as particularly favorable.
A couple of examples:
*
FlyMonkey replying to a question on the ScaredMonkeys site . . .
Reply #907 on: September 18, 2010, 05:58:56 PM
Do you think that your phone calls are being recorded when you speak with DeDe? Is DeDe being followed? or watched on a daily basis? Thank you for answering these questions.
[/quote]
We have no idea whether they are listening or not, but we do try to laugh about it. And we sometimes deliberately have long conversations about how incompetent LE has been in this case and how much time they are wasting, just on the off chance that they ARE listening.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=g0avdp7jr5llifios56oe7k9e1&topic=8508.900
**
from the long-time defunct thread on the GLP site (links no longer available) . . . FlyMonkey response to TJ:
Flymonkey
Dec 30, 2010 at 7:34pm
“At one point after you had posted info after an interview with DS, she tried to go on GLP in order to make revisions or corrections or whatever she did after your first post. When she tried to log in, she was unable to access the board and thought she had been locked out of the site. She said it occurred to her that it was some kind of sign that she needed to get away from the forums. She has not been back since, and it’s been quite a relief to her. She realized it was a completely unproductive way to spend her time. There are a couple of people here who let her know if anything gets said here that we think she should know about, but that’s it.”
____
imo, Not great to read about laughing and playing games with LE when a 7-year old child is missing, endangered or god knows what else.
And not great to read what appears DDS participating in or contributing to online comments at a time when LE needed further assistance from her to clear her as a possible obstacle on their road to finding Kyron.
These examples (choosing to cite only the 2) go to my opinion of the 3 very long years DY, LE, and KYRON have had to wait for this “clearance” and why I am subdued (not to be confused or labeled as emotional, hating, a tsk-tsk “team player”, deluded, etc.)
wpg: Who exactly are you accusing of being DDS on whatever forums please. That’s a fair request to answer your question, agreed?
B
sam h,
I was typing my post and submitted it before I saw your recent comments posted September 6, 2013 at 2:06 pm.
My comments are not directed at you in any way. Just wanted you to know that.
Cheers.
Dear Blink
Yes we have known each other here on BOC since nearly the beginning of this Blog- (although I am not a regular on Kys threads)
but others may not realize that
Blink my questions are not a swipe at you- they are asked with the utmost respect but w/ the hopes of figuring things out or helping others to figure things out, who may not have the courage to come forward and ask for themselves-
my questions are my way of getting to an understanding of where you are and how you got there…
Nothing personal at all
I have tried to understand yr process as well as my fellow contributors process of thought – nomatter what case we are discussing
By asking the questions i have- you have been able to clear up alot of misconceptions not just mine or some “Haters”- but misconceptions for many first time BOC readers and for longtime readers who may not follow a particular case as closely as some this is especially true of Kyrons story/ threads because they move so darn fast.
I have always tried to use my critical thinking skills as well as kindness in my process of trying to get to where you and where others are on every thread i have ever participated upon-
Its a process of making sure i am not holding firm to my own ideas-
I do this by challenging you and others thru asking countless hard questions and by disagreeing and then researching and then by researching more then agreeing more or sometimes less…
its a process
You have never made me feel as though you wanted me to stifle the process or my emotions or my thoughts – until today.
Perhaps it is due to my poor communication skills as of late, because my words seem to be misunderstood by many and seem to mask my true intent
We all do get emotional sometimes & I get that we all need to vent sometimes
i will gladly read your book recommendation Blink- as I do think everyone can benefit from learning better ways to communicate.
Blink i never questioned your character or your emotions or your loyalty or commitment to the “weeman” i do sincerely apologize that something I wrote made you feel that way
I appreciate you feel Gdad nailed it- but I do not form or share my opinions anywhere else but here as you know
Blink I have not came to any conclusions in this case- I am not a teri or de de hater- I will continue to read and think and bounce ideas and thoughts and questions off you -and your contributors-as long as you will allow.
I regret that this time I seem to have somehow overstepped some boundaries..
You once told me and I agreed that there are no stupid or thoughtless questions / concerns – but often times no easy answers to comfort us
Sometimes that is still a hard lesson to learn
Submitted with Nothing but kindness and respect-
Mom3
AJMO Peace
I heart you. You swiped at me, it happened. I don’t need to be right, but I do feel an obligation to be honest with you. I swipe at me on occasion, and we all know there is a whole cauldrosphere of swipers we are aware of.
It was not at all your query, it was just that part. Hurt my heart and that’s on me.
I knew I was ripping off a band aid with this, and I have done so with integrity, and much angst.
We are good, no stifling required, ever.
B
put on wrong thread:
Rose says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
September 6, 2013 at 3:58 pm
re “I would have my attorney on the horn with the DA and Chief Staton demanding to know what else I had been lied to about”
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/04/blink-on-crime-kyron-horman-investigation-exclusive-terri-horman-friend-dede-spicher-breaks-her-silence-after-passing-polygraph-requests-da-clear-her-publicly/comment-page-3/#comments
Here is a major part of the investigation’s problems, neither bio has had an attorney for the investigation or for liaison with DA/MCSO Qs and briefings, tho we’ve urged it here for years. I aleays thought Kaine too frugal & controlling & Desired too poor perhaps, & reliant on Tony. Or maybe they just feared an attorney would signal guilt to mcso.
I do not believe, without a new retainer agreement & deposit for this other type of legal work, ER represents DY wrt the investigation.
—-
re “It was Terri’s counsel who advised she cut off contact- not DeDe’s call. B”
This is absolutely the type of boundary-setter DY needs stat imo.
It has been TMH’s compliance with Houze’ limit-setting alone for the last 3 years that attests to her mental stability under exceptionally emotionally trying circumstances. I do feel hers are as trying as Desiree’s, for Kiara is fully under the control of a man she felt had previously lacked minimal capacity to nurture Kiara.
And, Imo Kaine owed her much better.
—at Mags. I imagine if told of the latest Sting Stavely would’ve picked up the phone, called Staton, and said wtf are the dynamic duo up to now, and they’d be caught red-handed, maybe even pulled from case. Imo this was their brainstorm not cleared with muckety-mucks above.
—
@sam h re “… the ones refusing depositions are the bios and le. that is factual….” clap clap
—–
my concern: coming from Sister’s latest outpouring of emotion on gofundme (not linking; you know where it is):
“My family is still stuck on that day”
Uses the same language as Desiree on TV post-search.
I’m sorry, this is just my lay opinion. In particular after seeing Desiree’s affect on the single tv station showing pre & post interview fully (now there’s a photojournalist) DY is more than desperate. There are other D words. There is either an adjustment reaction wholly impacting her judgment, or worse.
I have felt her ideation reflection circle not in her best interests, and she needs a strong protector.
Now, based on Kelley’s statement, at a minimum this family imo needs some sort of family therapy to process this loss, and get to a higher level of functioning, and I don’t mean with Tony.
As it stands, they are full steam ahead on fundraising for more searches, having made that their new North Star. That, of course, tightens Herron’s control of her.
I mean if this family of origin & DY were good to go without an outside strong
Limit-Setter-In-Chief (the type Terri has), she would not have had 2 divorces– losses of custody to both males, & a personal story of substance resulting in kidney failure, & depression.
She presents (on TV) with the latter now, and what Limit Setter will ensure she does not become a danger to herself or others? She needs such a person in her life.
—–
wrt “other theories”:
“Young sat side-by-side with the prosecution team through out the two trials…”
Now maybe Young exaggerated & he was not physically at DA’s table. But maybe he was, or was there enough thru 2 trials, testifying & in the Courtroom, to be a red flag to a bull family who lost their son, and paid whoever that would pass, a professional, to ensure he too lost the only child in his life. And, maybe believing Terri did it salves & saves the conscience from other possibilities:
http://www.ktvl.com/shared/news/top-stories/stories/ktvl_vid_6491.shtml?wap=0
——
btw, A+ in non-violent communication.