Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued ©
S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime
DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman
In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher, she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court. Unofficially cleared, that is.
Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley, who have since refused all local media requests, would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.
Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide. While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously, her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.
As was proven not only by her recent polygraph, but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place, Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.
The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.
Stoy: So, in your estimation then, why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.
Spicher: I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons. I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with. He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc. I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name. As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order, she was also told that
Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that? I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.
Spicher: No. I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th. I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.
Stoy: ok, sorry, continue. So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?
Spicher: They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding. It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June, and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March. So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?
To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.
Stoy: Which was?
Spicher: At first, I think that they really believed I was involved, and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was, and my vehicle never left, nor did I. They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.
Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case, they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?
Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect. I never felt that way, but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever, but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.
Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?
Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did. To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning. I would ask like who do you mean, because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this. I was scared and it turned out it was good reason. I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.
Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice? Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that. People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies. I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative. In fact, Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly. So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.
Spicher: (laughs) Interesting. I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.
Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?
Spicher: No, do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?
Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?
Spicher: I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house. Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.
Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?
Spicher: That’s it, yes, him. Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?
Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through, and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you. If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information, I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?
Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.
Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back , considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work? What did your attorney say when you told him?
Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney, but to answer your question as to my opinion, I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction. After more thought, and other conversations, I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible. What is your opinion on it?
Stoy: I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece. Again, not wanting to temper your opinions as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did. Is that ok with you?
Spicher: Sure, thank you.
Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion. I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman. Is that correct?
Spicher: Correct, ok.
Stoy: Did they ask you this?
Spicher: Who is they? You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).
Stoy: Fair point, you’re right. The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor. Allow me to rephrase please. Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?
Spicher: Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?
Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?
Spicher: (laughs) touche’ . I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids. I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.
Stoy: Why shock you?
Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing” and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well, impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.
Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct? That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc. And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?
Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury. But yes, that is what she told me. I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her. To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement . I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case, but yes, they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are. But that is my assumption.
Stoy: Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home? Spicher: I am not sure about the exclusive use part, I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.
Stoy: Ok. Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory. By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.
Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.
Stoy: How would you know that?
Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request. She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids. I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.
Stoy: ok, understood, we will get back to that. I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.” Do you recall what year, even ballpark.
Spicher: I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005, and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.
Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine, I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help. Do you remember where you were during the conversation.
Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell, Terri had a lot of drama, and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know, we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.
Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?
Spicher: Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention. It was either during that call or at the lunch. Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.
Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?
Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.
Stoy: Got it. What did she say
Spicher: She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”. She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her. She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller. The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him. I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.
Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from? Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?
SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.
Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person? Sort of like… she gets approval to remain anonymous, she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?
Spicher: Yes, something like that. Except and again, we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out. The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact. From what I recall, I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.
Stoy: Understood, so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day, but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.
Spicher: Yes, I think so.
Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice. I don’t think so because she did not ask for any. So then what? Did Kaine find out?
Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy, and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day. If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember, that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.
Stoy: Ok. Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?
Spicher: Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed, it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing. She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office. We did.
Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what? Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served, in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le, but it would surprise me. Terri was always very family centric. She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing, this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.
Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: No, not at all.
Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?
Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper. He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.
Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting” and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”
Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.
Stoy: She specifically said the FBI, who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.
Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.
Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?
Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?
Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?
It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years. The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier. As a strong argument for the trickle down effect, Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle, was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report. A former Sheriff, Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications. The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place. Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.
In fact, Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.
MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.
The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell. O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.
There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.
In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week, it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.
It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan, the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.
Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.
After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption tipping other’s off in the alleged ring , Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso, Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested. The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike. The specifics of which were sealed by the court. It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.
Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids? How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?
“… Jackson, through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”
“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest. He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”
On June 3rd, 2010, approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance, Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.
From the Indictment:
Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden. Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products. Worden has never been charged.
Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and
841(b)( 1)(E).
The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).
The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin, a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.
According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.
From Buff To Puff
In contrast to Jackson, although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement, William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon” cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.
In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote, “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”
Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way. Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client, was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.
John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case, sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well. Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question. Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason. The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.
“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”
Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.
Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.
On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.
Andrew Millbrooke filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby, Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot. In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy. The suit is pending. A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion. Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].
With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against Traverso were dismissed this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.
Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation. Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.
As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .
Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.
However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids, but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.
“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.
“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.
He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.
At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”
S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.
The source, an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…” “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…” The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.
Reached for comment, Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.
A request for comment to Mr. Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.
More Questions Than Answers..
Following several hours of interviews with DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?
Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.
She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”
She was not.
Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself. Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.
Through Spicher, Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness” which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc, Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th. His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.
Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought. Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.
Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous. Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom, to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.
To her knowledge, there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.
In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.
Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:
“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”
Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators. One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer, at their own expense The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.
“… This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.
The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”
I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange. She had. I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.
Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion. Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.
I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home. She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.
Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?
Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.
Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper? I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen, and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.
Spicher: No, it wasn’t. Kaine bought it. It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property. I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home. I mean, like cleaning the gutters, cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing. To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.
Stoy: With a baby, 7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that? No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help. I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.
Spicher: No, Terri had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children. I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money. I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage. One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that. I believe the other was the landscaper.
Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.
Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that? But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.
Stoy: Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?
Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].
Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement. Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you. Are you angry about that?
Spicher: O my no. That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine. I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can.. I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them. I really pray that Kyron will be found, I choose to put my energy into hope for that.
Pending Matters
Through Attorney Bunch, Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday, Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.
Early this afternoon, a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.
A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013
Jacqueline Beaufort, Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.
Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.
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Blink, Was out of town, posting on my IPhone before. You need to go back and look at this post. It looks as though you said things I said. That is what I was trying to correct.
Erose says:
December 29, 2013 at 10:26 pm
We live on the floor.
Amy’s sis I don’t understand how the sting is not relevant to the civil case
Rose I agree about dr e v. Rather say it now than later
LOL. Floor is More?
B
I did and responded in non-bold. Please let me know what I need to correct erose, I appolly in advance.
B
@vw. the types of questions RSE may be asked depends on whether Rackgel or Houze calls him.
It is not in Houze’s interests to call him based on questioning technique alone.
He wants to be on cross: “Leading questions either suggest the answer (“You saw my client sign the contract, correct?”) or challenge (impeach) the witness’ testimony.”
However, my inference from the perpetuity gambit is once rse is on the stand,
Engel will ask the judge to rule RSE a hostile witness.
Then let’s see if Thayne wakes up & advises El Cinco.
Attorneys are absolutely trained at CEU classes not to used the word “specialize” wrt to areas of interest in advertising. Thayne “was listed” by himself on his firm site. He himself held himself out as specializing, This is risky.
The norm is to say “limit my practice to” with a list of case examples,
—–
@TRuth. wrt “I woke up thinking about SZ this morning. Are we sure SZ is the same man that asked Kyron for help? Are we sure that man was not eventually identified and cleared?”
What man would go into a classroom where he was neither a parent not an aide, reference a 2nd grade stranger, and say come outside dueing school hours to “help”? Noond normal, that’s for sure. (And what teacher, ever, would nod OK to that stranger/2nd grader outdoor jaunt when neither were in her class student family?
Respectfully, this is where everything is soooo wrong. I am human, I want the details, too. This case should not be about Kyron. IMO, if this case were not being propped up as some sort of litmus test for TH wrt Kyron’s disappearance, then perhaps people would be demanding some real efforts in his direction. (IMO, “not at you” Amys Sis, hope you understand.)
Amys Sister says:
December 30, 2013 at 5:39 pm
snip>
…what information regarding Kyron may come out of it…
Blink, No apology needed. Just didn’t want anyone attributing my opinion of Vien to you. (Just what you need quoted back to you 6 months from now.)
LOL, LOL. It’s ok, line forms to the left. Again, sorry if I erred.
B
@ VW, I wonder why Houze wouldn’t want to cross RSE on the stand to show his lack of understanding the English language or to press him on the words Terri used when asking to have her husband killed?
It does seem like Houze could have found RSE first if he had tried. I believe you’re thinking Rudy wouldn’t have been lawyered up and you could be right.
erose says:
December 30, 2013 at 11:29 pm
_____
I understand, Rose. It shouldn’t be, but it is. Kaine has stated he believes Terri has something to do with Kyron’s disappearance as one reason for the RO and Engel brought the issue up in this case. She is pleading the fifth because of Kyron’s disappearance. As I’ve said, I just do not know if there’s any way around it.
Besides, what we learn may be that Terri was a wonderful mother and really loved Kyron which would only help her with the custody issue at hand and by default point toward her not having a motive to disappear Kyron.
@ Rose, I can’t stand a misogynist (especially a female misogynist, something about a woman who says she can’t be friends with or work with other women really irks me) and I just did not get that from Engel. So funny how things are interpreted differently by each person.
So noted. I have no explanation for that one. Cross me off the smarty pants list, LOL. Still would love to throw in my uneducated presumption. I think when the original RO was filed, it was just after the sting and TH was anticipating being arrested. She hired a criminal attorney because the allegations were criminal, and the venue the DA chose was family court, which is out of left field. Pretty sure people were scrambling on her end, and deadlines were missed.
If I have my timeline clear, when Bunch came into the picture it was in time to agree to a stay. I’m thinking behind the scenes Houze was doing his own investigation, because he had no idea if he could believe TH or not. There was a GJ in session. For the sake of the child (BabyK) the status quo was probably agreed to. They probably agreed in chambers, ‘let’s all see how this shakes out.’ (Who wants a primary care giver sitting in jail, or consumed with a trial?)
At the 3+ year mark, and before, Bunch has made TH’s dispute of Baby K’s custody known. They request SUPERVISED visitation. Yes, that is on the road to custody, but most of us do not understand how someone who has not been convicted of anything, or named a suspect of anything, does not have the right to appear in a setting of the courts choosing, with supervision of the courts choosing to see her child. Not for her sake but for the sake of the child. And not because a four or five year old can necessarily comprehend, but for her future psyche (as in my Mom cared), and the memories and bonding established.
I think Bunch and Houze petitioning the court for custody is an indication that they both believe her and do not think she is a danger to her child. JMO, of course, and VHL your questions are always a great spring board for me to vet my thoughts. Thank you, and sorry if I over step.
VLH says:
December 30, 2013 at 6:31 am
*I would also like to please clarify* that when I asked why Houze & Co. hasn’t said “bring it on”, I was talking about fighting the RO, no visitation, accusations, etc. previously – or why I might make a decision it to not testify against RSE currently.
Again, thank you smarty pants’ for being understanding of these (common) questions.
Kaine needs to provide facts as to why he *thinks* TH had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance. The entire theory (tie the disappearance to the MFH) is based on TH’s knowledge of family law.
She clearly did not even understand how KH could leave the house with BabyK and not return, so she was informed by the 911 operator what he did was legal. That is basic family law.
Amys Sis, How probable do you think the DA’s theory is?
Amys Sister says:
December 31, 2013 at 1:12 am
BTW, attempting to cause the other side to miss deadlines is a common tactic. Each side tries to give the other not one second longer than the legal minimum requirement. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable in OR family law can explain exactly how much time TH had to find counsel (get counseled – kind of a complex sitch) and file paper work on the original RO. You bet plan A was to arrest her at the house on the 26th and plan B was she would not have ample time to find counsel and contest. If you read up on McKnight, she states one of the biggest problems in Mult Co family court is people appearing without counsel (pro se). Can you imagine TH showing up in court without an attorney and answering those allegations.
Most Judge’s cringe at pro se litigants, I agree, but I have also seen them give much more latitude with more consideration on infringement of rights and due process also. The truth is you know who R E A L L Y hates pro se? Opposing counsel, lol
B
Can you see how orchestrated that RO was? This was not just KH and his attorney. This was the full force of Mult Co & the DEA collaborating against a *potential* POI, with full knowledge of Kyron leaving Skyline with a man and based on Rudy’s word about the MFH, that he is having a difficult time articulating.
Yep. To include a tweet from the Mayor.
B
Erose, was that was the DA’s theory? I thought it was Engel/Kaine who brought it in?
It seems like it’s out of left field unless Kaine and Terri had discussed it at some point or her computer records show she had visited websites and read about it.
Kaine may only be willing to say his belief of Terri’s involvement is because of LE at this time but that will probably develop further as June gets closer.
While the case was stayed, the RO could not be fought.
No one could bring anything on.
Completely correct and I am catching some of you fine folks forgetting that so thanks Rose for the reminder to all. Engel seemed to forget that very point in his response as well. I saw your post in moderation on verifying dates and positions regarding same- I DO NOT trust my memory so I will research that and reply accordingly.
B
@Amys. I call it a mysogenistic mindset when a man who is perfectly free to go forward & affirmatively acommplish his goal, without any barriers, blames his internally felt weaknesses on his wife–saying she presents a barrier due to invisible chains that bind when those chains simply don’t exist. Iirc you differ with me that when Engel said that he was in fact perfectly free to affirmatively present Kaine’s case, and Kaine has been the foot dragger for some time. Again, wife’s silence has nothing to do with Kaine’s presenting his case.
Blink,
Without the interpreter’s translations (for perusal) of both questions and answers we will not know what was lost in “translation”….nor will Kantor.
It remains, unequivacally, that there was NO translator available to “interpret” the INTENT to hire a hitman to do in Kaine Horman.
Oregon Statute states that it is a felony to solicit murder…with a 7year minimum sentence if convicted.
No MFH intent occurred on or prior to June 26th, that could be proven…no evidence of any ACTION taken to harm Kaine Horman. June 26th, 2010….no MFH could be proven, again.
But the media merely stated, post the “sting” that:
1. Terri Horman “shut down” the conversation.
2. Terri Horman “cut off” the landscaper.
As if TMH was calling 911 to somehow deflect her part in a bonafide MFH.
How many, in the public, besides some of us here on Blink, thought she might have said:….
“Jesus, Rudy! What the ****** are you doing? That was years ago I was pissed at Kaine. And now you want me to give you 10 grand cuz I told you I hated him and he and his little GF would mess up Kyron and Kiara’s lives forever!….get the F*** out of here!”
Well, creative licence and all, but we KNOW that something in that meeting, of 15 minutes, exonorates TMH.
Houze knows this. And knows that Matthews and his witnesses (3) lined up for the Custody Depo will “prove” that TMH was NOT the last person at Skyline to see/be with Kyron.
Still thinking Thayne. Why him? Rudy and Thayne against the world? Both of them, maybe, wanna be “out of this”?
Thayne, btw, did not seem to me to be “with” the Engels team. Will be very interesting if he is there this week. Why would he be?
I seriously don’t think she ever said that much. She gave LE RSE after being reminded of their discord ( and the interchangeable terms gardener v landscaper)was aware she was being followed home after an “nth” hours long interview/interrogation to include what we have been told a failed poly and Rudy shows up in his friendly ( LE will know what I mean by this) white truck and demands $10K with the DEA agent I now believe had a dual role to include interpreter. I guess that was handy because otherwise Mr. Sanchez was acting entirely at the direction of LE, making him an agent of LE.
And oh yeah- didn’t Staton or someone say something about collattoral?
Me thinks she said I have no idea what you are talking about and get off my property and went back in the house and when he did not leave immediately, she called 911 to report it.
I continue to believe 1000% that LE was in position to arrest her that day- based on this guy’s uncorroborated and interpretable word.
B
wrt “It does seem like Houze could have found RSE first if he had tried.”
Houze would not provide addresses to Plaintiff for Plaintiff’s witnesses.
Engel must locate his own witnesses.
Houze would never have called RSE as Respondant’s witness.
He could not rely on Kantor then declaring RSE a hostile witness.
So, to call him would limit drastically the phrasing & breadth of questions Houze
could pose in an important way. It would be adverse to Respondant’s interests
for Houze to “find” RSE on the record.
I would like to remind everyone that RSE name came up in open court very early in this case. Engel’s assertion that he found RSE without the help of LE is disingenuous at best, and referenced in bad faith at worst, because Bunch stated that RSE was an alias and that the plaintiff refused to provide his contact information after Rackner’s motion references sexual overtures wrt to him, made via texts or sexts. That information, according to her motion, was provided by LE.
B
@rose….Can Houze depo RSE as to that conversation with RSE? (We need you to say x, y & z.) Not if
that explanation was solely made by a newly hired criminal defense attorney as translator.
Personally, I think any criminal attorney of RSE in any depo shoukd have had him respond
“Tomo El Cinco” to cada question. (sorry if verb errs; it’s been forty anos.)
*****
After 3.5 years we have to wonder what O’donnell et al promised Rudy. i.e. ala Dede: “Do the sting…you’re one of us now…and you’re good. We won’t have any Ice or other stuff to bother you again.”
The STING….the culmination in the CYA.
STING, PING and SEXTING = a winner! A million in OT, No-one sues MCSO, the DA’s office, Skyline.
Just for the record,
Thayne did not appear to have any communication with Engels, et all during the last hearing.
He did NOT leave with Rackner, etc. as I was in the elevator with them. He stayed behind and made a statement for Kyle, I believe.
@ GH…Thanks for this Rose! Sometimes I wonder if I’m overly sensitive to such things. Right after this hearing I asked (rhetorically) who is paying Thayne. He was certainly welcomed by Rackgel in courthouse lobby with big smiles and handshaking. creepy to think RSE’s story is the one keeping T from baby K.
****’
Interesting. But these peeps (ie. houze and DAs) have been working together for decades. Friendly adversaries, not personal.
TMH and Houze are on a slippery slope when dealing with RSE.
He is the primary witness against TMH in a potential criminal case (witness tampering?)
His testimony cannot really help TMH. At best he can be discredited on the stand.
One advantage that Houze has over Kaine’s attorneys is that he knows TMH’s side of the story. I used properly, he could manipulate RSE into testifying on information favorable to his client without his client having to take the stand. I suspect this is why Kaine’s team has seemed so intent on keeping RSE off the stand.
I also doubt that RSE’s lawyer is “part of the team”. I suspect RSE thought that LE “had his back” for participating in the sting and recently found out he was on his own with the deposition, and hired a lawyer he could afford.
I’m not sure of the answer to the following hypothetical: If TH opts abandoned her 5th Amendment protection against criminal prosecution in the civil divorce/custody case, could SHE testify as to what occurred at the alleged “sting”? I understand that TH’s attorneys are currently prevented from questioning LE and RS (as he was allegedly working on behalf of LE) about the event due to investigative privilege, but I don’t think that applies to TH herself.
I understand that if she would so testify, she would be waiving her right to remain silent and her testimony in the civil trial could potentially be used against her at a criminal proceeding; I’m just wondering about the scope of the Court’s order.
Imagine if TH did decide to testify regarding the alleged “sting” – wouldn’t LE be placed in a position where they could not respond with their own witnesses???
erose says:
December 31, 2013 at 2:19 am
Can you see how orchestrated that RO was? This was not just KH and his attorney. This was the full force of Mult Co & the DEA collaborating against a *potential* POI, with full knowledge of Kyron leaving Skyline with a man and based on Rudy’s word about the MFH, that he is having a difficult time articulating.
Yep. To include a tweet from the Mayor.
<<<<<<<<<<<
My understanding is that there are witnesses who place Kyron outside by a white truck that looked like KH's, but no witnesses saw Kyron leave the campus with a anyone.
There are a myriad of accounts that address Ky inside, then outside the school, but to my knowledge, I am not aware of a witness seeing Kyron physically leave the Skyline School campus alone or with another, that is correct. I would note that is an Amber Alert requirement.
B
@Blink wrt ” after Rackner’s motion references sexual overtures wrt to him, made via texts or sexts. That information, according to her motion, was provided by LE.”
And that means LE had RSE’s historical cell content and shared same directly with Rackner (waiving its privilege as “part of tge investigation imo. Another depo question for RSE: Did you provide your cell content to Rackner? Who did you provide it to? Same questions for Cook.
I don’t see RSE trucking up to Rackner’s Office saying take a look at the sexting she did to me a year ago.
Ci.
B
Kaine used the word collateral; I think on Fill.
Hearing today:
Horman Kaine Andrew */Horman Terri Lynn Moulton MCR 12/31/13 1:15P THXK 544 JUDGE KANTOR 100666084 Hearing
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/12/31/kyron-horman-missing-new-years-eve-settlement-ends-horman-marriage/
B
” post in moderation on verifying dates and positions regarding same-”
Thank you & take your time.
Imo it will be a helpful framework going into Jan 2/3,
as I anticipate Engel will continue to blame Bunch
& Mother for the case being tried so many years
after Kaine set things in motion by absconding with Kiara.
@erose. Yes, McKnight said 80% of the litigants before her lack Counsel.
Clearly no criminal justice act there where the County subsidizes a pool of counsels for
the indigent. I certainly hope she doesn’t allow unrepresented parents vs gov’t in cps cases.
wrt to “full force of the County” wrt to the drafting, ex parte presentation, & execution of the RO, in tandem with the sting, it is reasonable to infer McKnight was approached by her Gateway Advisory Council Friendly, Woods,
saying “we need an RO,” who can see Rackner ex parte? Woods is probably someone who’d go to the Family Chief
Judge on the DV bench. I can see them consulting.
Imo if McKnight & Woods collaborated in rolling out that pie dough,
I can see McKnight assigning an ongoing Judge, not a
member of the Domestic Violence bench, when Meis retired.
Rose says:
December 31, 2013 at 4:04 am
____
Pages 47-48
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/Horman%20court%20filings%20dec%201%20to%20dec%2027.pdf
At no point in these documents is there evidence of hatred for Terri because she is a woman. There is no evidence of Kaine feeling internally weak, though you may believe that to be true. Engel is merely stating the fact that Terri knows her refusal to answer questions or produce any evidence will affect the parenting study and the courts ‘partial and incomplete information’ but will not limit Kaine’s right to produce his own case.
So, what is going on today up there in Ptown?
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/pages/courtcalsearch.aspx
Horman Kaine Andrew */Horman Terri Lynn Moulton MCR 12/31/13 1:15P THXK 544 JUDGE KANTOR 100666084 Hearing
Horman Kaine Andrew */Horman Terri Lynn Moulton MCR 1/2/14 9:00A THXK 544 JUDGE KANTOR 100666084 Trial
Horman Kaine Andrew */Horman Terri Lynn Moulton MCR 1/3/14 9:00A THXK 544 JUDGE KANTOR 100666084 Trial
All up now, Blink, thnx.
“Friendly” white truck? Appearing friendly to whom, Terri?
Regarding the plaintiffs theory that Terri knew courts prefer to keep siblings together in custody disputes, Engel claims (in the court docs page 7) it was ‘obvious’ Terri must have known this however he does not claim to have evidence of this.
It’s reaching to say the least, unless Kaine can state under oath they had discussed it.
So why is she pleading the 5th after so long still?
Touché Amys Sis. Yes, legally Engel/Kaine, not Engel/Kaine/DA, I however make no distinction.
Amys Sister says:
December 31, 2013 at 2:26 am
snip>
Erose, was that was the DA’s theory? I thought it was Engel/Kaine who brought it in?
I am NOT implying that these are their thoughts, I am attempting to think like a grief stricken parent and give a possible reason why……
I have been thinking a lot the last few days about why TH would remain silent, the RO, no contact with Kiara and I believe I would do the same. On one hand, we have the bios whose sanity depends upon believing that TH did it. Taking that position their minds can protect their sanity by enforcing ideas such as it was a terrible accident and TH is too afraid to tell/covering it up, too it was planned and happened so quick that Kyron never saw it coming, too he is alive and being cared for.
Like it or not, TH is also Kyron’s Mother. They might not share DNA, but she did take care of him and IMO, she loves him and tried to make the days a little special. All the pictures, outings, time at the school, homemade birthday cakes & Easter baskets, etc., etc. etc. All of that takes time, thought and effort. A parent, who is self-absorbed or does not care, does not do these things for their children.
When I think about what it must be like to be TH, I think of a woman who has three children and is missing two. IMO, her sanity does not have the luxury of imaging a quick and painless death from the hands of someone who deeply cared. What if her survival/sanity also lies in a place that has Kyron alive and waiting to be rescued?
I imagine that I would want to speak and regain access to my daughter but what of my son, the one that is missing? Mr. Houze might be a top notch attorney, but he is not the person who will be answering questions under oath. What if she says something that gets twisted around and she is falsely imprisoned? No one appears to be looking for Kyron now. Who is going to look for Kyron if she found guilty of his disappearance? Who will save him then?
IMO, the only way to find Kyron is for TH to remain silent thus forcing LE to reveal that they have nothing and hopefully Joe Public demanding real answers. IMO, TH gets to hold onto an idea that one day she could have a future that included all three of her children.
RE Mom3.0 says:
December 29, 2013 at 9:33 pm
re Nel Mel says
December 28, 2013 at 9:12 pm
snipped:
Oh, and my county’s CPS would have been crawling all OVER this situation with Baby K a long, long time ago. They don’t need a judge’s order to investigate child neglect. All they need is one anonymous phone call and they are compelled to investigate. It might seem unfair, but in TMH’s situation, if she was in my state, a friend of hers could call CPS anonymously about KH’s treatment of Baby K, and CPS is required by state law to investigate KH. He could of course sit there an lie through his teeth as they interviewed him, but one question that CPS would ask would be — “where’s the custody agreement for this child? What do you mean you don’t have one and have just not allowed the mother to see her?”
Uh, oh. KH would be in trouble. BTW, a basically trained child protective worker here knows that KH would need a custody agreement in place, and that his “suspicion” based on “probable cause” from 2010 was not much to write home about. AT this point, no matter what some shrieking DA might say or do, CPS in my county would be calling the shots on behalf of Baby K.
SO I ask…why hasn’t this happened in Oregon, for cryin’ out loud?
—–
Excuse me, but are we seriously advocating anyone or just a friend of teris to anonymously call cps on Kaine to falsely claim/allege child abuse or neglect?
That would be a big no no in my state.
Again a judge in Oregon need not be the one to ask for cps intervention and noone needs to make any false accusations
terri and her lawyers could have facilitated this by simply asking for a GAL- which would have required as part of the process a family services intervention to interview and evaluate.
If terri had fought the RO and if she had continued on with her initial request at custody and visitation – both she and Kaine would have had to submit to stringent parenting and MH evaluations and interviews w family services also
AJMO
Peace
———
Phew glad to hear it guys-
So glad My question allowed Nel Mel and others to clarify their thoughts on this issue-
As Amys sister said PP there are many ways to interpret any given subject
I sure wouldnt want one of terris friends or some other helpful person who may have misinterpreted nelmels thoughts to get in trouble for making an anonymous seemingly “unfair” call to report “neglect” or any other false allegations inorder to get the ball rolling as it were….
and I sure wouldnt want Blink NelMel or any of us connected to any such misinterpretation
- Just looking out as they say
AJMO
Peace
going back to make sure I didnt miss something and – found something I missed
erose says:
December 27, 2013 at 3:20 am
Mom3.0, I am not saying duped, which means easily deceived. I am saying highly orchestrated and intentionally misled, which is not so easy. This was done over time by several entities. FTR, I am also not convinced of TH’s guilt or innocence, I just do not want the rights of a potentially innocent person violated. If people want to allege her guilt (and I do not mean you personally) that is reasonable, but we should have the trial before the conviction. That’s what I’m saying. Peace & HNY.
–
Sorry erose I overlooked your earlier post-
Im sorry my choice of the word duped offended you I was speaking in that instance toward the WM3 case- not you
I understand your thoughts although I am not sure there was a highly orchestrated campaign to mislead anyone to believe anything- unless you were speaking toward the medias seeming bias – that may be the case although I have not read all accounts
as it may pertain to LE I havent seen indisputable evidence of this either- but I will refrain from making a set determination until I have read heard and seen any and all evidence-
as it may pertain to Kaine- no I do not believe he has led a campaign to mislead or to misdirect- he may be following said campaign, but again without the evidence IRT LE I will withhold my conclusions
as it may pertain to Desiree- perhaps but she herself is being mislead by those she calls friends IRT DY and anything LE has said or done- again I will withhold judgement until any and all evidence of alleged highly orchestrated campaign to mislead and misdirect has been presented.
I am glad to read that you have made no set conclusions I feel much the same as you do IRT innocence
“I just do not want the rights of a potentially innocent person violated”
at the same time I realize the potential of the “guilty” to claim innocence and utilize the court system to get off
I agree we should have a trial before we make any set determinations on these important matters and any potential evidence
In the same way I think any and all parenting and MH evaluations should take place inorder to ensure a childs safety- regardless of the truth that all children can be said to benefit from joint visitation or custody as we have learned this in fact isnt always the “truth”
Happiest of New years to you and to all
AJMO
Peace
I’m serious.. This woman has a little darling girl that she has been away from for a few years now and many on here are saying that LE and KH ruined her life… Why doesn’t she step forward then and claim her rights?? Why plead the fifth? Why does SHE keep hurting her own daughter?
Marci- have you read any of the several thousand posts on this case?
B
GraceintheHills says:
December 29, 2013 at 7:21 pm
grasshopper says:
December 27, 2013 at 1:31 pm
@Mom3.0
snipped-
….that is why we are all so horrified by this. Not only has a woman’s life been destroyed without charges or evidence, a little girl psychologically damaged by being separated from her mother and told who knows what, but once the law is thrown out the window, as it has happened in this case, EVERY SINGLE PERSON is at risk.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GH, what law is it that you think has been thrown out the window in this case?
****
Grace thanks for addressing this point I missed it-
sorry GH
AJMO
Peace
RE Lc says:
December 29, 2013 at 10:46 pm
There would have been a parenthetical that the interpreter was sworn and that tells you a Spanish interpreter was interpreting the attorney’s questions into Spanish for the witness and the interpreting the witness’s Spanish into English for the attorneys and the record, Are you suggesting the court reporter should have put have put in a parenthetical for each question and answer? The record would read poorly and the court reporter would probably be accused of page padding, since we get paid by the page.
The landscaper’s bilingual attorney would have objected if he didn’t agree with the interpreter’s translation. I haven’t read the transcript. Did that happen?
***
Hello I didnt want your post to get lost…thank you for sharing your thoughts as a Court reporter invaluable & much appreciated-
—–
A Texas Grandfather says:
December 30, 2013 at 9:52 pm
Hi TGF- interesting- while reading everyones thoughts on this issue I couldnt help but recall “Prisencolinensinainciusol”
from wiki-
The song is deliberately meant to sound to its intended Italian audience like English spoken with an American accent, but the lyrics are actually pure gibberish, with the exception of the words “all right”.[1] Celentano’s intention with the song was to explore communications barriers. “Ever since I started singing, I was very influenced by American music and everything Americans did. So at a certain point, because I like American slang — which, for a singer, is much easier to sing than Italian — I thought that I would write a song which would only have as its theme the inability to communicate. And to do this, I had to write a song where the lyrics didn’t mean anything.”[2]
This is what English with an American accent sung sounds like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcUi6UEQh00
Chart (1973) Peak
position
Belgium (Ultratop 50 Flanders)[10] 4
France (SNEP)[11] 6
Germany (Media Control AG)[12] 46
Netherlands (Mega Single Top 100)[13] 5
catchy isnt it?
Taking miscommunication to a whole other level
HNY
AJMO
Peace
trying to catch up before the new year-
Rose says:
December 30, 2013 at 5:00 pm and Blinks response
and
Rose says:
December 31, 2013 at 3:57 am
While the case was stayed, the RO could not be fought.
No one could bring anything on.
Completely correct and I am catching some of you fine folks forgetting that so thanks Rose for the reminder to all. Engel seemed to forget that very point in his response as well. I saw your post in moderation on verifying dates and positions regarding same- I DO NOT trust my memory so I will research that and reply accordingly.
B
–
Thanks for the info and response
Look forward to an update on this issue Blink-
IIRC it was terri who was the first to ask for this stay —
So it seems…it could still be argued that She under the advisement of her team while doing her best to protect herself (not condemning)- inadvertently aided in the long time upholding of Kitty being withheld-
How would this have effected her right to contest the RO each year when it came up for renewal as she did this year- IIRC the judge first upheld it then BOH finally contested therefore a NCO was put in its place….
IDK not sure just thinking…
AJMO Peace
surprise hearing this afternoon at 1:15 in Kantor’s courtroom. my courthouse tipster let me know at last minute so I scurried down. didn’t take long. will have notes later today but here’s synopis.
now sitting at starbucks thinking about it all! no media there except one KOIN camera man in the hallway and since he was desperate for a sound byte caught me. talked to him but didn’t give my name. wanted to say grasshopper but thought that was a little disingenuous. basically all financial aspects have been settled, division of assets, spousal support. judge signed dissolution and it goes into effect with signature so that means today. some talk about RSE testimony and the ruling judge made earlier. he asked for a copy of it but neither bunch nor engel had it. I wanted to offer mine, in my latest pdf but thought that might be tacky. anyway next hearing set for feb 12. I think it is about RSE deposition. I’ll go over my notes and see if that seems right. big trial still set for june 2. don’t quit know where this leaves custody. since it rests so heavily on RSE’s accusations, and T has never been named POI or suspect, seems a lot to decide custody on basis of unconfirmed allegations.
I assume the hearing on this thurs and friday is cancelled since it was to be about financial aspects and those have been settled.
only one spectator taking notes besides myself vw was that you?
Was not VW to my knowledge gh, I thank you for your boots on the ground!
B
RE vw says:
December 29, 2013 at 3:55 am
@Truth…missed #24
And that …. too! Yes. In the Australian case she actually went to prison…because she didn’t show the “appropriate” feelings after her baby’s death.
*****
In an effort to educate- I needed to comment-
Hello vw- although the media and the prosecution played up this avenue – this statement isnt entirely true- She went to prison for 3 years because the expert lied- and because the witnesses testimony was disregarded because of this
snipped wiki-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_Chamberlain-Creighton
The prosecution’s expert testimony for forensic evidence included that of James Cameron, a scientist who had also given crucial evidence in a case in England which was later overturned when his expert evidence was proved wrong.[7] With regard to the timing of the baby’s cry and Mrs. Chamberlain’s whereabouts, the prosecution also claimed that the Chamberlains convinced fellow camper and witness Sally Lowe to say that she heard Azaria cry after Mrs. Chamberlain returned to the camp fire.[5]
IMO just reading the prosecutions case makes one wonder how any reasonable person could have believed such a scenario like this happened-
You wrote:
You know….I went to a dinner party with well-read, intellegent folks about a year ago and they, even, thought P Ramsey and Chamberlain guilty of killing their children. Such is the power of the press and the mythology that survives even after mothers are acquited and DAs apologize.
*****
–I cant speak to the knowledge or intellect of the dinner party or how it may be that they still thought LC might be guilty- perhaps they hadnt read of acquittal and finding the babys matinee jacket…
But IRT the Ramsey case- respectfully very reasonable people have heard seen the evidence (GJ) and still voted to indict- also even thou the DA did make that statement it was not her right or job to do so especially based upon the touch DNA- reasonable intelligent people have many countering well thought out points on said evidence-
Even J Ramsey wishes all evidence from the GJ was released and so it would seem that there is evidence within to point to other avenues as well so- my point is no one knows the whys and whatfors and sadly the ramseys must still withstand the shadow of doubt until the killer is found or all evidence is released.
They did not invoke the 5th not to media not to LE
the intellect of any person who may review known evidence and formulate a theory of who dunnit does not speak to intellect or lack thereof– otherwise where would our Dear Blink be- (still waiting to read your full analysis Blinky as I think i may just be ready to get off this fence)
JFTR, it was Mrs Chamberlains ability to not claim 5th privilege which finally aided in helping her to be cleared- as from day 1 she spoke out claiming innocence- she cont to do so thru out even after she was imprisoned- it is her accounting of the matinee jacket something to which she only knew- that eventually helped to clear her- as it was this matinee jacket (fragments) which was found years later- near a dingos den that led to her freedom
and as I said Patsy Ramsey and John Ramsey have been very outspoken on their innocence and they did not prevent Burke Ramsey then 9 10 or 11 from being interviewed/depoed nor did they stop him from being interviewed by MH professionals
you wrote:
“There had always been a sense of unreality in the conviction of Lindy Chamberlain, a Seventh-day Adventist pastor’s wife and respected member of the community, for cutting the throat of her nine-week-old baby. To this day, nobody has ever advanced a plausible motive.”
*****
—- LC was innocent there could never be a plausible motive…. IDK IRT the Ramseys… still respectfully to any who are guilty of filicide or other… there need not be a motive or a known motive-…
You wrote:
IMO…in our case, Engel’s is trying to “create” a motive by bringing up the notion of TMH knowing that “step-siblings” should not be separated after a divorce….and that TMH “knew” that little-known fact. In fact, TMH did not even know that Kaine could take Kiara and it would not be against the law….that night of the sting.
*****
This could be true but it seems the resentment of child and father could be possible motive or wanting to punish father ..accident that snowballed could be motive- IDK dont claim to know- as we are not privy to LES thoughts case or evidence-
we truthfully can not say whether or not TH has been cleared as a POI and LE DA wishes only to protect the investigation info as it may relate to a different POI…
You wrote:
Again, the DA, via Engels, is trying to solve the criminal case by inserting the MFH “hire” and trying to connect it, via the public and courts, to the subsequent disappearance of Kyron.
this could be the case or it could be that engels is working to best look out for her client and for his children and the DA may feel his fears are well grounded IDK
You wrote:
And we wonder why TMH is being instructed not to talk?
yes I still do .
Thanks for adding a response to VW Blink- I agree all ponderings could be the truth of the matter ….
AJMO
Peace
-
[...] a surprise court hearing, Judge Henry Kantor signed off on the agreement between Kaine Horman and Terri Moulton Horman to end their marriage this [...]
http://www.koin.com/news/horman-divorce-agreement-reached
<The agreement calls for a monetary award and child support.?
Child support? By whom? Terri, who doesn't even get to see her little girl? With what for $$?
Who pays the 'monetary award'? If Kaine, it almost seems like he is "buying" their baby from her. That pretty much doesn't make sense.
So what exactly is Atty Houze doing for HER? Is the only thing left for her to try to get her baby back? Seems like KH has pretty much closed that door forever….
I had a thought earlier as I was wondering about TMH and SZ plus KH and DY's suspicions of her – one of the things that could probably never be proven. and that body they found up there on Skyline in 2010 – the Hispanic man. Just in case (nobody needs to agree or not, I'm just speculating) she WAS involved in disappearing Kyron — what are the chances that she could have left and had somebody else, maybe the Hispanic man whose body was found, or somebody else that she knew (who may have just lied when interviewed by LE) – ask Kyron to come and help with something, and then do a handoff to TMH — or just keep Kyron for some reason, but could she have been involved in that way?
This makes truth of the fact that she wasn't the last person to see Kyron AT THE SCHOOL. – but may still have been responsible, like KH and DY think.
I still don't think she hurt him, though. I really think she paid a whole lot more attention to those children than either of the birth parents.
well, all MOO. Sad time all around, and still little Kyron doesn't find peace.
oops – more details here. Didn’t google far enough:
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Terri-Horman–Kaine-Horman-finalize-divorce-238305601.html
KGW obtained a copy of the divorce agreement Tuesday and here is what the couple agreed on:
•Terri must pay Kaine $224 month in child support
•Kaine will continue to pay $576/year for Kiara’s health coverage
•Terri must maintain a $100,000 life insurance policy, with Kiara as the beneficiary
•Terri gets 73.3% of Kaine’s Intel 401(K) retirement plan and $6,937 in Intel stock
•Kaine gets all of his Intel 401(K) savings plan
•Kaine gets the home on Sheltered Nook Rd. in Northwest Portland
•Terri gets the couple’s Ford Mustang
•Kaine gets the couple’s Ford truck and John Deere tractor
•Terri and Kaine are responsible for their own debts and attorney fees
Terri and Kaine have not commented on the dissolution of their marriage Tuesday.
Wow, just wow. Not sure what to make of all this? It sounds like Terri is willing to let Kaine have custody of her daughter, pending visitation agreements. Is it normal to order the non-custodial parent to carry a life insurance policy on the child? (That kind of scares me, with all death threats that woman has had against her.)
Well, maybe now we can get down to finding Kyron. Are we moving over to a new thread?
RedRose says:
December 31, 2013 at 6:54 pm
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Terri-Horman–Kaine-Horman-finalize-divorce-238305601.html
(list of asset division snipped by me)
•Kaine gets the couple’s Ford truck and John Deere tractor
(end snip)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry … perhaps this comment is kinda off, but …
Kaine keeps that shiny top ‘o the line John Deere tractor.
I keep thinking of the photo of the tractor that was prominently displayed in one of Blinks published works years ago near the beginning of this sad tale.
May he use it well — hauling blackberry thickets/bushes himself!
looks pretty onesided to me.
(wrt to house & vehicles)
Also, he too should have had the requirement of an ins policy
+ something per year set aside in a
college account for Kiara (remember M Sanford) .
Imo he got off easy.
I am positive he did, and I was remiss in stating that we do not have the final agreement, just KGW notes if you will.
To my knowledge, you cannot be compelled to save $$ for college in a property settlement agreement, nor can you be compelled on the college edu in same, but one could absolutely agree to those I suppose. It does come into play when the child turns 18 of course. The issue being the income shares several years in advance.
73% of that pension is huge. I have not checked statute yet, but in my state, if ordered in a divorce, one is not subject to the 10% penalty for early withdrawal.
No issue on the $250K gift?
On the surface this is a win in current climate, imo.
B