McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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GraceintheHills says: “@Sunny, you may be correct. Do you have a link to that info that shows a date?”
One of the frustrating things about this case, especially for those of us who have followed since the beginning, is that so many news articles and videos have been deleted and/or archived. So no, at this time I do not have a link…only my memory…to verify the info. I have saved every article written, and video shown, since I first saw the report…and have been looking through my files for a couple of hours now…I can’t tell you how many times I clicked on a link only to get the message that ‘the link you are looking for is no longer available’. I will keep looking and researching, and if I find one I will surely post it here.
It is on here in this thread somewhere, not sure if it is still active but it was since the piece.
B
Your opinion of CM, why do you seem to lean toward him not being involved?
I would not say I lean toward any theory at this point. I would say that CM passing a polygraph has weight. That said, I would wish to review the examination in total against known facts of the case.
I have a fear in this case.
That fear is that I think it is possible that based on a belief that Joey and Summer left on their own, that folks may have helped themselves to the couple’s assets and business interests.
My additional fear is that folks helped themselves to their assets with the presumption that they would never leave on their own, so they must be deceased, or never coming back so they did not fear reprisals or reprecussions.
I say fear not because I don’t know for certain this occurred, It did.
I just have concerns that motives for same may be construed as motives for murder vs the “actual”.
The probate issues in this case are going to prove a monumental resource. And make no mistake- Every transaction that has anything to do with this case will be known. To include things sold or transacted from the marital residence.
B
B
When I look at the evidence of that last day, I see something else.
I see them being separated and even killed separate and I see someone in a rush that got lucky. Plus his statements all seem very self serving. Is it because he took a lie detector? With his lawyer could not his lawyer have limited the scope of questions, remember at this point it seems LE felt they were alive and CM knew where they were.
What about the idea they were alive and DK was helping them? Do they know who called animal control? Could It have been the family or Summer? Seems facts are hard to get. CM saying he went to the home on the 7th feed and watered the dogs and let them in the shed, after telling Susan he was going, yet Mike no idea who cared for the dogs.
Must have been neighbours it almost is like Mike did not speak to CM at all unless LE wanted that kept private. I remember Mike M kept bringing up CM in the Watts video saying that was his truck the neighbour saw on the 4th and Tim Miller had to tell MM enough not to mention it again.
Blink: Your site is so refreshing! Thank you for the facts and not just a bunch of useless theories and gossip. When do you think you might be able to release part 2? I am impatiently waiting…
If all that is true about VJ, then that’s a pretty good motive and explains the reason for the kids being killed as well (he didn’t care about them; kind of like when a lion takes over another pride… all the offspring tht are not his must be eliminated… very primal..
I thought you were talking about another suspect when I first read this.
It’s been 6 weeks. I thought there would be an arrest by now. Blink I know you believe this will solve and I hope you’re right but the more time that passes, the more discouraged I am. They will need a confession if the grave site did not yield the forensic evidence that LE suggested it did at the press conference.
I respectfully disagree. This case re-set on Nov. 11th. I feel strongly at this point that SBCSD has treated this case appropriately and continues to.
Keep in mind, they needed to dedicate ONLY specific staff to evaluate the case as FBI files were turned over- which have different evidentiary submission rules.
They are treating this case with fresh eyes as they should.
Many folks have made a lot of additional work for them, unfortunately.
We have process and procedure to consider. This will be a grand jury case, and for right now, I am confident about a resolution.
B
Grace
I think your comment on the previous page regarding the length of time that PD took to declare a crime scene and protect it is the exact reason that the boys were murdered. The perps did not want the children to alert the neighborhood that mom and dad were missing nor did they want to take the chance that the boys could identify them.
I don’t know where SDPD got the tip to look at the video of border crossings. However, it plays directly into the story to match the location near were the car was found. This also tells me that at least one of the perps knew enough about the family and the business to make it look plausible.
blink writes:
My additional fear is that folks helped themselves to their assets with the presumption that they would never leave on their own, so they must be deceased, or never coming back so they did not fear reprisals or reprecussions.
—–
What has always stood out to me ( speaking of victimology) is that The McStay family apparently did not have the kind of ” infrastructure” that would make anyone Immediately alarmed if they didn’t hear from Summer or Joseph every day. I have two kids, and if I stopped answering my phone, by the next afternoon ( at the latest!), any one of my friends or relatives would have come over and certainly called the police right away, in advance of the mandatory 24 hour wait period to report a person missing.
Yet no one seemed truly alarmed about the McStay’s absence for a rather long time- the family didn’t file a missing persons for days.
What was it about Jospeh and Summer that would prompt a painter friend to check to see if he should come back, even though Summer had told him to? And then , after not getting a response, just skipping the whole thing?
What was it about Joseph that Chase Merrit wouldn’t pick up that last phone call, and or be concerned that he didn’t hear from Joseph at all the next day, the day after that- especially if they talked several times a day and had a big job pending?
What was it about Joseph McStay that would lead his family and business associates to be so easily consigned to the idea of a voluntary departure? Accessing the accounts , divvying up what they left behind etc.- without taking the necessary legal steps- what WERE they thinking?
Were Mike and Susan just going day by day, could it be that simple? Was DK just taking advantage of the situation, as a kind of ” f- u_ to Joseph, who he was mad at for not being included in a bigger way $$ wise? Could it be that simple?
Granted the investigation was claiming it was a voluntary missing case- but something in Mike, Susan and all business associates bought it, even if just partially.
Patrick McStay says he never let up- but my point is that NO ONE involved was 100 percent sure that there was NO way that the McStay’s would just disappear. No one said with 100 percent conviction, from the get go, ” The only way Joseph and Summer and the kids would be gone is if they had been murdered, period.”
As much misinformation is out there about this case, i am grateful that it is being discussed avidly- we are such a long way from justice for that family, for those two young boys.
Lanni says:
December 26, 2013 at 12:13 pm
Your opinion of CM, why do you seem to lean toward him not being involved?
Blink says, “I would not say I lean toward any theory at this point. I would say that CM passing a polygraph has weight. That said, I would wish to review the examination in total against known facts of the case.
“I have a fear in this case.
“That fear is that I think it is possible that based on a belief that Joey and Summer left on their own, that folks may have helped themselves to the couple’s assets and business interests.
“My additional fear is that folks helped themselves to their assets with the presumption that they would never leave on their own, so they must be deceased, or never coming back so they did not fear reprisals or reprecussions.
“I say fear not because I don’t know for certain this occurred, It did.
“I just have concerns that motives for same may be construed as motives for murder vs the “actual”.
“The probate issues in this case are going to prove a monumental resource. And make no mistake- Every transaction that has anything to do with this case will be known. To include things sold or transacted from the marital residence.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink, I hope you and your family had a lovely Christmas! I am so glad you brought this up. Why in the world would all these people start moving money, selling off appliances, etc. fairly soon, right? Perhaps, with no one making payments on the house, they had no choice.
Some very unsettling thoughts re: this case have been crossing my mind recently and I sure hope I am wrong.
DeesMom, although it seems to be going slowly, six weeks into a quadruple homicide is still very early in the investigation. My understanding is that the SBCSD and the FBI are starting back at square one and reinterviewing all the witnesses. It may take a while but I think it will be solved.
ATG- good to hear from you, neighbor! Hope you had a wonderful Christmas. Homicide detectives will tell you that most murders are committed because of money, sex, or revenge (or a combination). I agree that maybe the boys were killed because they were witnesses who could identify the perps. I tend to agree with Blink that these murders occurred in stages and the family was lured from the home. Did Joey make it home, or was he already deceased at that point? Joey’s asthma meds were in the car. The eggs were left out. They left in a rush. Did Summer get a message that Joey needed help? The staging of the car near the border is important as it takes the trail in the opposite direction of where the McStays were taken. Who would choose to use that location? Someone who wanted to make it look like the McStays went into Mexico voluntarily. Someone who really wanted to throw LE off the actual trail.
Who benefits the most from killing the whole family? Who had the means, motive and opportunity? AJMHO.
The graves are not that far from I-15 and an off-road bike trail. Why that location? I suspect the perps were confortable with that area. Didn’t they worry that these shallow graves might be discovered? Would be interesting to know if they went back to the scene to make sure the site was secure.
Blink-
It seems to me this money or taking of it happened so fast someone had to really feel no problems would come there way from doing what they did. I would hope that is because as we have heard Joseph was such a nice guy that whoever moved money believed they could explain and he would accept. To me it was a shock when I found out, I mean LE said I can do whatever I want? Wonder how Bro would feel to hear that how his wife’s family was nixed when it seems they mostly had sentimental issues at heart. Did Summer own this house? Someone quit claimed it to someone and it seems she had her own accounts. I just wonder why long term financial choices are so poor it seems more like a grab what you can and flush the rest baby out with bathwater. Maybe the other poster could be right they had to clear out so post on craigslist get what they could. I think LE has lots to sort out here Blink but will see everything for what it is. Just may take them more time sadly because they now have another set of wrong doings to cloud the issue of motive. I see it the other way around. Anyone with their hand in the till I would suspect was not involved and would not want to implicate themselve.
By that I mean with their hand in the till After they went MIA. In other areas if there was any wrongdoing prior to Joey going MIA I would red flag that.
It seems logical to assume this was a planned crime, the advance digging of the graves implies such. Also, it seems to me that whoever did this, they were known to the family and could`ve been identified by the children. There is no other reason, to my mind, why somebody would murder the children too. I`m doubtful somebody paid to have this done, even a hit-man would surely be reluctant to kill children.
I have a gut feeling the motive is nothing but pure hatred but what was the trigger? The key for me is why the family left the house when they did and who were the last people to have contact with them.
I look forward to the day this animal is caught and executed.
My thoughts and prayers are with the poor McStay family, bless them.
Here is the phone record for Josephy McStay’s last day. Chase’s number is the 909-374 and Summer’s is the 949-295- number. Look at 5:47pm- a lot going on there. He never responded to Summer’s last text at 5:47.
note: the location of the phone number does not always mean the caller is in that area-i.e. Summer’s phone was bought in Laguna Beach but she was not there.
Date
2/4/10 Vm Retrieval 8:56 AM 123 (G) 1
2/4/10 Daytonabch, FL 9:01 AM 386-383- (F) 24
2/4/10 1-800 # 9:24 AM 800-622- 7
2/4/10 Daytonabch, FL 9:31 AM 386-383- (F) 4
2/4/10 Incoming 9:36 AM 949-274-4674 22
2/4/10 Incoming 9:40 AM 909-374- (A) 3
2/4/10 1-800 # 10:17 AM 800-955- 1
2/4/10 Incoming 10:19 AM 909-374- 4
2/4/10 Daytonabch, FL 10:34 AM 386-383- (F) 2
2/4/10 Incoming 10:39 AM 281-475- 4
2/4/10 Incoming 10:43 AM 949-274-4674 (A) 2
2/4/10 Pomona, CA 10:46 AM 909-374- 4
2/4/10 Incoming 11:06 AM 949-274-4674 17
2/4/10 Incoming 11:18 AM 949-274-4674 (A) 15
2/4/10 Incoming 11:33 AM 909-374- 2
2/4/10 Kingsport, TN 11:38 AM 423-963- 2
2/4/10 Kingsport, TN 11:39 AM 423-963- 1
2/4/10 Vm Retrieval 11:41 AM 123 (G) 1
2/4/10 Incoming 11:43 AM Blocked NBR 6
2/4/10 Incoming 11:46 AM 386-383- (A) 5
2/4/10 Capstr Vly, CA 11:51 AM 949-492- (A) 2
2/4/10 Pomona, CA 11:53 AM 909-374- 2 (Chase’s Number)
2/4/10 Pomona, CA 11:56 AM 909-374- Text Outgoing
2/4/10 Anoka, MN 11:57 AM 651-746- 1
2/4/10 St Paul, MN 11:58 AM 651-261- (A) 2
2/4/10 Daytonabch, FL 12:00 PM 386-383- (A) 2
2/4/10 1-800 # 12:02 PM 800-622- (A) 4
2/4/10 Incoming 12:04 PM 203-699- (A) 8
2/4/10 Vm Retrieval 12:11 PM 123 (G) 4
2/4/10 Capstr Vly, CA 12:15 PM 949-492- 7
2/4/10 Dublinsnrm,CA 12:22 PM 925-560- 5
2/4/10 Pomona, CA 12:28 PM 909-374- 6 (Chase Number)
2/4/10 Pomona, CA 12:52 PM 909-374- 1
2/4/10 Hopewell, VA 12:52 PM 804-541- 8
2/4/10 Incoming 1:01 PM 909-374- 1
2/4/10 Pomona, CA 3:03 PM 909-374- 1
2/4/10 Pomona, CA 3:32 PM 909-374- 2
2/4/10 Pomona, CA 4:18 PM 909-374- 3
2/4/10 Vm Retrieval 4:27 PM 123 (G) 4
2/4/10 Vm Retrieval 4:31 PM 123 (G) 2
2/4/10 Pomona, CA 5:47 PM 909-374- 3
2/4/10 E-Notes 5:47 PM 3887 Text Incoming
2/4/10 Laguna Bch,CA 5:47 PM 949-295- Text Incoming (from Summer)
2/4/10 Pomona, CA 8:28 PM 909-374- 1
Not sure what the E-Notes are-I looked up what that means and it seems it may have been a message from the phone carrier or maybe it is something more-did someone send an email to text to Joseph’s phone which they know could not be tracked as they are computer saavy?
Also, I’m wondering if his phone was off after checking his voicemail at 4:31 and then when he turned it on to call Chase, he got two other messages (the E-notes and a text from Summer-or whoever had Summer’s phone). If I turn my phone off for a few hours and turn it on I get blasted with about 10 text messages at the same time.
After looking at his last days phone activity I think more and more about the possibility that JM never made it back home. Summer texted him-or maybe it was the killer(s) who had her phone? From what Chase said of Summer she was demanding when it came to the phone and wanted Joey to answer regardless if he was at lunch or in a meeting. Summers last text was never answered by Joey. I don’t think he made it home.
I’m also thinking more that Summer & the boys were accosted at their home and they ordered Summer to leave the dogs outside. If someone had just called her to lure her out saying that Joey or Jonah were injured and to come to the scene my guess would be that she would call or text someone as she was on her way to say that Joey or Jonah were in trouble. Even if JM or SM were threatened over the phone and told not to tell anyone or they will die-there is the chance that they wrote down some info on paper somewhere in case the person followed through -like “SOS I’m Joseph McStay -family in trouble”. That is too risky for the perps. IMO I feel like they were both overtaken, separately.
If you left in that much of a hurry thinking something bad happened you would be flying out of that driveway in the neighbor’s surveillance video (if you were alone w/no perp). With a perp at the wheel they would be driving very slow as to not make anything seem out of the ordinary. JM could have been dead at that point, in another car, or in Victorville. I would think the perps would be in control of the phones as soon as they took them both.
All JMO (for today at least)…
The boys had to be killed, on many levels.
First, if they’d been abandoned at home, at a sitter’s, or in public, it would create a big hairy deal:
CPS investigation, guardianship necessity via Court system, court-appointed attorney, all assets woukd
be in a guardian’s hands as well, and so on.
Second, no one would’ve believed the adults took off traveling without their kids.
Their absence was as integral as the car’s disposal location.
Third, there would be the probate issues–inheritance would be clear.
Their deaths related to far more than perp id, imo.
Sadly, I agree. The crime scene data being withheld will be very important as to the relationship to this offender (s)
B
Their absence was as integral as the car’s disposal location
Unless they went to Mexico, I think the car was just put there to look like they got into trouble with someone who then fled to Mexico.
As far as the kids I guess what to do with them could apply but IMO they were in the middle of it and could ID who took mommy or hurt mommy.
Blink said:
“Keep in mind, they needed to dedicate ONLY specific staff to evaluate the case as FBI files were turned over- which have different evidentiary submission rules.”
Thank you for the insight Blink but it brings up more questions for me (no LE experience whatsoever):
What differences in evidentiary values between prior FBI discoveries and say local police(SDSD)or even SBSD would make a difference in terms of staffing this investigation by the SBSD? It almost sounds as though the local LE would have “less” work to do because of the FBI being involved previously? Sorry if this sounds muddled~I had a hard time even forming this question, but it sounds like there are differences in the current investigation regarding legwork the SBSD has to do with what is on “on the books” via the FBI so to speak?
First of all, I have been out of touch with keeping up with the blog. So,I just found cbs8′s journalistic point of view of the characters involved with Joe’s business. I don’t know if I am alone, but I have no friends or acquaintances that have a criminal record. So why did Joe have so many criminals in his inner circle? Why did his Mom feel that they “needed to continue the business vs. looking for her son and family”…according to DK. IMO, if DK’s statements are accurate, Joe’s mom and brother knew he wasn’t coming back. I have a feeling there is more than meets the eye. According to cbs8 CM was the last call Joe made…I get the feeling that Joe was trying to point to who did it or who got it done. The people involved are shady and imo the truth will not be found. Sad to say but I feel it is true.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/24277118/mcstay-murder-mystery-who-is-dan-kavanaugh
Blink: Do we know for a fact that Joseph McStay was the ONLY signer on bank accounts? I ask this because whoever withdrew/transferred funds did so without any regard for getting caught and possibly facing the consequence of getting caught with their hand(s) in the cookie jar.
He was not, but I am not prepared to disclose more details in that regard except to say that NOBODY that withdrew money from his accounts was a co-signer, co-owner or had any rights to the money they took.
B
Am I reading the phone records wrong, or did Joey and Chase only take a 30 minute lunch that day?
No you’re not- but we just can’t assume that because he took calls or had his phone on/off that he was not still at lunch.
B
Scout,
What has always bothered me is Summer supposedly called Joey continually according to Chase. No calls from her all day, right. Not until a text at 5:47. I have wondered if someone knew Joey had a meeting and waited for him to leave the house then immediately took Summer and the boys. This would also explain the eggs on the counter for breakfast. (But not the popcorn). Maybe the popcorn was left over from the prev. night and Summer gave it to them until she could get breakfast cooked.
The pattern of phone calls totally changes after 1 pm. Before lunch there were many more calls from a wide variety of people. After lunch it was CM and that’s it. Not even any incoming business calls.
If you review previous days it is even more notable how unusual this is.
I also agree the lack of calls from Summer is odd.
@GraceintheHills. Hi. The way I understood it, CM and JM’s lunch was between 1:00 – 3:00 which is what the phone log reflects.
@Jane. Hi. I believe JM didn’t leave the house until noon. However, eggs are eaten at any time of day. Having said that, I’ve always wondered if the eggs were out because SM was (if she was) going to bake a cake for the party they were planning for the youngest son.
Also, IIRC, sometime around 2 pm SM spoke with someone at a homeopathic company looking for the product called “Anger”.
Question: There’s been a lot in the press regarding the dirty diaper that was left on the floor when they disappeared. However, I also read somewhere that it was a dirty diaper next to a pair of little boys pj bottoms. Is that true?
Thanks!!!
All MOO of course.
Soiled diaper (so presumably Chubba’s) within pj bottoms/sleeper in upstairs bathroom next to tub, iirc. This has always bothered me as it did not appear as if the dogs were restricted to the downstairs or outside, as we all know dogs will go after something like that- and the gel inside can be poisonous to a dog.
B
Just doing some calculations. Assuming that the McStays were possibly abducted in or around Fallbrook at or sometime around 7:47 — the drive from Fallbrook to the location where the bodies were found is approx. 103 miles (1 hour 35 minutes drive, according to Google), I think it is a real possibility they would have been killed (if they were killed at the grave site) somewhere around 9:30 pm that night. (Also, if this was preplanned and the graves were pre-dug, then they were probably taken directly to that site.) So I’m just trying to logically fit in the 8:28 phone call to Chase…if Joey had been bound at that time he wouldn’t be able to make the call. If Joey did make the call, then it’s possible they were not yet at that time with their captors. Could the McStays had planned to meet someone at the location their phones pinged off (Bonsai Bridge) and that’s where they were abducted, sometime after 8:28 pm. Just some thoughts.
Blink, my understanding is that Joey and CM met for lunch that day:
CM calls Joey at 9:40AMand 10:19AM.
Joey calls CM at 10:46AM, 11:03 and 11:19AM.
CM calls Joey at 11:33AM.
Joey calls CM back at 11:53 and again at 12:28 and 12:52.
CM calls Joey back at 1:01PM.
Jody’s next call to CM goes out at 3:03PM.
So, it appears if they met for lunch it was just after 1:00PM. Some people prefer going to lunch after the noon time lunch crowd, so nothing suspicious here, imo. That is a lot of phone calls, but this may have been their pattern in the past.
Correct Grace, it is believed they met just after 1, I believe it was at a Chic Filet, but I do not know to my satisfaction that anyone verified that with the rest. or via receipts, pings. Not saying I call that into question, I have no reason to per se, except that it is indicative of how this initial investigation was run. CM and Joey were in what I would call frequent contact similarly in the extended phone records I have.
B
This autocorrect is ridiculous. Jody = Joey in my last post.
Rose says:
December 27, 2013 at 4:09 pm
The boys had to be killed, on many levels.
First, if they’d been abandoned at home, at a sitter’s, or in public, it would create a big hairy deal:
CPS investigation, guardianship necessity via Court system, court-appointed attorney, all assets woukd
be in a guardian’s hands as well, and so on.
Second, no one would’ve believed the adults took off traveling without their kids.
Their absence was as integral as the car’s disposal location.
Third, there would be the probate issues–inheritance would be clear.
Their deaths related to far more than perp id, imo.
Sadly, I agree. The crime scene data being withheld will be very important as to the relationship to this offender (s)
B
~~~~~~~~
Agree 100%, Blink and Rose. These offenders wanted LE to be thrown off track so they put considerable time into planning and executing this crime, imo.
So, here is my question. Did the SDCSO come across some information about JM, SM and/or their business that led them to conclude it was not only possible but probable that the McStays left the U.S. through Mexico? Did the offenders know this same info and use it to throw LE off the trail?
Another question. Did JM employ younger, unskilled laborers to help install these fountains?
But only CM? After 1pm? And NO CALLS from Summer? Did Summer just not call or did she try and the phone was off? Why turn it off when if we believe what CM says Summer always called doing their lunches repeatedly till he picked up- so it was not typical behaviour?
When was Summers last contact? That I do not have? Besides that she went to Ross but her signature is in question.
Do you at this point think there is any chance this family did cross into Mexico? Its funny I never did and felt the SUV was parked on the 4th or 5th, that computer searches were just red herrings and nobody tried some elaborate plan to make people think they went to Mexico either. That it was simply a place to dumb the car leading LE to look toward Mexico and that seems to have worked but now I look at the video as it has been put up again this time saying it is not them and I see a man to the right who seems to be having some communication with the toddler holding the mans hand, and the toddler looks back towards his mother and now I wonder if this could have been Summer and the boys. It makes no sense that it is them. But why is LE in San Diego still saying they think they did cross to Mexico. I guess I assume they must have some other evidence we are not privy to.
Also, IIRC, sometime around 2 pm SM spoke with someone at a homeopathic company looking for the product called “Anger”.
And lunch was from 1-3pm was she upset Joey did not Answer?
Several 2010 articles in the Orange County Register indicate that LE found JM’s and SM’s cell phones in the home. Does anyone know if this is true?
It is absolutely false and their phones have never been recovered. It is possible any references to cell phones found may have been old or inactive, but the phones in use at the time of the disappearance have not been recovered.
B
The following is snipped from an article entitled “Update on the Missing McStay Family” written by Jamal Al-Sarraf on March 25, 2010 for the San Clemente Times:
“New leads have been uncovered in the disappearance of the McStay family. Joseph McStay, his wife, Summer, and two children went missing on Feb. 4 and authorities are still having a difficult time tracking them down. Even with the help of aerial drones, no new leads have surfaced until last week when a surveillance tape from a neighbor’s home security system was released. According to McStay’s brother, Michael, the tape shows the family heading out together. “The tape shows everyone getting in the car at 7:47 p.m.,” he said. “They actually went out to eat that evening, and I am positive that the car in the driveway is the Isuzu.”
~~~~~~~~~
Interesting. The family went out to eat that evening? That means Joey did arrive home? My understanding of the video was that it showed only the back bumper area, not the passengers inside the vehicle.
Grace- do you have a link for that piece please? Your understanding is correct, and that also includes the trooper that was backed into the parking spot- which neither Joey nor Summer ever did, according to interviews I have conducted as well as other corroborating information.
I ask for the link out of respect for Mr. Michael McStay- because either he was misquoted, out of context, or some other issue. The McStay’s did not have dinner out that evening, and there is no question about that fact.
I applaud your advocacy in researching all you are able in this case- and I share your frustration in the VAST amount of erroneous reporting- remind you of any other cases?
B
GraceintheHills says:
December 28, 2013 at 4:56 pm
Several 2010 articles in the Orange County Register indicate that LE found JM’s and SM’s cell phones in the home. Does anyone know if this is true?
It is absolutely false and their phones have never been recovered. It is possible any references to cell phones found may have been old or inactive, but the phones in use at the time of the disappearance have not been recovered.
B
—————-
Thanks, Blink. I have spent most of my afternoon reading about the case and came across several articles stating the cell phones were left in the home, but it doesn’t surprise me to learn that the phones were not left behind and have never been found. My understanding is that JM’s phone last pinged on a tower near their home.
Both phones last pings have never been released publicly, although without being specific, it is my belief that those last pings from both phones were interpreted as an intentional discarding of the phones- Erroneously, imo.
B
Blink, I got that quote from a compilation of full articles with links, but when I clicked on the link to the article in the San Clemente Times, that page was no longer available. This is why I included the reporter’s name, the date and the newspaper. I will again try to find the link.
I found it:
http://www.sanclementetimes.com/update-on-the-missing-mcstay-family/
Thank you Grace.
B
Grace
The cell phones would have pinged off other nearby towers as well. The thing we don’t know if LE has any information other than the one tower.
If the phones were in operation during the abduction, and they were not tracked for hits on a group of towers there is no way to know for certain where they were ditched and when. Another thing to think about is did any of the McStay phones have GPS capability.
I would think that the SDSO would have spent a little time working in this area. The county should have maps of the location of all cell towers and the primary carrier that owns each of them. If they don’t, then they have a big hole in their knowledge base.
There have been some redactions with this author and San Clemente times. So Joey did not make it home and perp backed trooper in so he could get kids in be more out of sight maybe see if could back into garage? I know the show on TV had a reenactment of the Trooper, not actual video. But Blink you are saying it was backed in not as I heard before that the reenactment was just incorrect ??????
I thought they have said phones last pinged at the BONSAIL bridge, were dumped and thats why people never understood why no search of that area?
Can you expand on why you do not think the phones were tossed? I know Mike M said they last pinged here and that they went dead on the 6th with Summers being on longer taking texts longer than Joeys and people said u can’t tell if a phone was dead or off people wondered why he assumed dead and i assumed cause they remained by that bridge he assumed they eventually went dead. Do you know something else does it explain why LE never searched that area?
LE said it was searched, but I cannot confirm that it actually was.
B
@jane Yes, no calls from Summer on the landline that day. I am curious as to what Summer’s cell phone records say- I believe they would be very telling. Summer’s credit card was used that day at Ross to purchase the toys that were in the back of the car.
That is not accurate Scout.
B
Has anyone noticed the position of the green truck in the parking lot ? I can’t imagine routinely parking a Trooper next to it, and squeezing in and out. I think most people would park on the street or edge it out to the street, off-center. Then imagine piling an abducted family in it. I don’t think so.
It makes me wonder if the green truck was there at the time the Trooper was spotted leaving the driveway. Or, if was parked later.
I do believe it was Summer who made the purchases at Ross although the families have questioned the veracity of her signature. Ross uses those electronic signature pads and my signature on those things looks nothing like my actual pen signature. It looks like chicken scratch because the screen seems slow to process the plastic stylus so I make a quick scribble sig. It is also my belief that Ross has security cameras so why would a perp go in there to buy toys- especially if they were trying to make it look like the McStay’s were getting out of Dodge. If you’re taking off to Mexico I don’t think you’re going to be hauling Children’s toys across the border- THOUGH I don’t know if the perps purposely planted the car there. One of the murderer(s) parked it there and walked across the border himself as you are not checked or questioned at the border when heading INTO Mexico on foot.
The car backed in is somewhat alarming however (to play devil’s advocate) the toys in the car were very large she may have backed the car in to haul them into the garage herself (after the boys went to sleep) from the driveway or so they were ready to take in quickly for when Joey got back. I recently bought a large TV and a large printer and backed my car in our driveway as I knew my husband was not around to help me carry it in. But it was just light enough I could pick it up and stagger with it into the garage. I do this if I have large items or a lot of groceries-just easier to haul in the house-though my family would not know that I ever backed my car in.
I do feel they were accompanied by an evil person when they left that home or else they would have been flying out of that driveway-seeing how they just left everything in a hurry. I don’t think Summer would leave her beloved dogs outside like that either…did someone order her to do that?
Not a “parking lot”, but the driveway of the McStay house.
A Texas Grandfather says:
December 28, 2013 at 9:39 pm
ATG, yes, I understand about the towers.
I do think this would have been data LE could and should have collected.
Scout, on one timeline, I read that SM used her credit card twice that day online to purchase
toys and other items for the boys.
Blink,
On the trooper, do you know that the video shows it was actually backed into the driveway? To me this is huge if true but I had been told that a show when reconstructing just did that and it does not reflect the actual video-way trooper was parked in video (which only shows to wheel wells, LE said its was hard even to ID the car as the Bronco.
Was backed in, confirmed.
B
I did note that SBPD uses individuals plural in reference to suspects.
Scout I read that Summer had spoken to her mom or sister earlier that day- but this too may be erroneous reporting-
As to the toys in the back of the car- I thought LE was unable to trace the purchase directly to any Ross or to any family member-
IIRC little G just had a birthday – but they hadnt had the party yet- so not sure if these were to be his presents- …if so why werent they wrapped…which brings to mind Did LE find or even look to see if any presents were in the home?
All the above may not be true- hard to discern facts in this case.
I have been thinking- The McStays had just recently purchased the house-
How long was it on the market – how long was it vacant- the reason I ask is in high school my friends parents purchased a home- they got it @ a steal- this was because it had been sitting for sale a long while vacant so it had become a “party house” for months after moving in they had unsavory people trying to sneak back into their home to “party” this was in “good” neighborhood
Also who were the previous owners?
maybe The mcStays were not the intended victims – either of these scenarios have the Mcstays not supposed to be there…
IDK just brainstorming
IRT “the children having to be killed” for me that would seem to point to a known person acquaintance or other taking them- they couldnt keep them how could they explain their presence and the kid could tell who did it- because if it was a complete stranger drug cartel type with possible border ties…wouldnt they have kept them alive … and if a complete stranger couldnt they have just tied them up blindfolded them and left them behind they were little enough not to give a perfect description of a complete stranger…killing them is brutal ….I dont understand it
AJMO
Peace
Why did Joey call Basseterre and then immediately call Arkie in Florida? Just an FYI: Basseterre is the Capital of West Indies and is a tiny town but a major center for financial trading. Several companies in the town are routinely suspected of drug trafficking. For example, Freight Movers International and DHL both have had their local branches that operated out of Basseterre closed for this reason.
Companies in Basseterre added to and removed from the list of suspected traffickers under the U.S. Drug Kingpin Act. Here’s one individual on the list: MATTHEW, Karen, c/o Freight Movers International, Basseterre, Saint Kitts and Nevis; DOB 27 Jan 1964; POB St Vincent & Grenadines (individual) [SDNTK] Karen Matthew took over the business when her husband Glenroy Matthews was incarcerated.
The U.s. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) constantly amends its listing of Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons by either adding or removing entities form its list of “Specially Designated Narcotics Trafficker”.
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lanni says – “I thought they have said phones last pinged at the BONSAIL bridge, were dumped and thats why people never understood why no search of that area?”
I think this data is from ir3/James Spring (hired by Michael and Susan, I believe). The info on the Bonsal Bridge pings apparently came from the one article on the ir3 website (not available anymore and curiously). I do not think these phone pings were confirmed by LE.
The following article is par-for-the-course in St. Kitts:
MIAMI, USA, January 31, 2007 – Kittian-born drug baron Glenroy Vingrove Matthews recently began serving 136 months in jail for his role in conspiring to import cocaine into the United States.
Matthews, who had pled guilty in October to the charge, was this week sentenced by US District Court Judge K. Michael Moore. He was the last of four defendants to be found guilty of participating in the charged conspiracy that was led by former Jamaican Shower Posse leader Charles “Little Nut” Miller.
He had faced a maximum statutory term of life imprisonment but the sentence was commuted to 11 plus years in jail and five years of supervised release, by Judge Moore.
The case was the result of a US Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Drug Enforcement Agency investigation of employees of AmeriJet International. Investigators found that drug dealers were using the freight air carrier to smuggle cocaine into Miami from various Caribbean Islands.
Matthews was the exclusive agent for AmeriJet on the island of St Kitts. The investigation connected to a parallel investigation being conducted on St. Kitts by members of New Scotland Yard. That investigation centered on the assassination of St Kitts Police Superintendent Jude Matthews and the disappearance of two Kittitian citizens, one of which was suspected of being involved in the cocaine smuggling conspiracy.
Members of New Scotland Yard were able to discover a cassette tape of Matthews and others discussing plans to ship the cocaine to Miami via AmeriJet. The recording was made by Vincent Morris, whom Miller eventually killed.
Matthews in 2000 was listed as a drug kingpin, under the “Kingpin Act”, by the White House. (Copyright Hardbeatnews.com)
Read more: http://www.caribbean360.com/index.php/news/11519.html#ixzz2otvTSX64
This case was running through my thoughts as I tried to fall asleep last night.
I think so many people genuinely care about Joey and Summer and their two precious little boys and want to see the people responsible for this crime brought to justice. I, like many others here, am frustrated at the pace of the investigation, but I know that in a capital case all the t’s have to be crossed and all the i’s dotted.
Yes, Blink, the more I read, the more misinformation I come across. One publication will hold something out as a “fact”, and then that same “fact” will find it’s way into other articles. It is entirely possible Mike McStay’s comments were taken out of context or he was misquoted. Mike McStay, imo, not only is a loving brother and uncle to these victims, he is a victim, too, and deserves our support and compassion.