McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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“McStay Family: The 67 inch apart tire tracks”
http://www.missingpersonsofamerica.com/2013_12_26_archive.html
Really Interesting Article- the writer talks about what kind of car/truck/trailer could have been wide enough to haul the Bobcat.
Blink- you say you cannot release the painter’s name for investigative reasons. But can you tell us if he has a criminal record/violent past? (Assuming you looked into his past.)
I agree the article is interesting, but it misses a great deal of data when attempting to determine “what made the tracks.”
Re: The painter. I would say that to my knowledge there is nothing in his background that would suggest the potential he could be capable of this crime. Just to clarify I did not say I cannot release his name, I said I was not going to for the time being, for investigative reasons.
B
random question:
does Mike McStay act like he believes his brother is in mortal danger? That every square inch of the house he left behind may yield vital information?
I have no idea what Mike is like ” normally”, but If I had no idea where my brother and his children had disappeared to, and that they may be alive and in danger, I am wondering how I could keep from crying just entering his house. I don’t know how a brother could go through the house and point things out without showing any emotions traditionally connected to the pain of the loss.
this link has been posted before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvPKlj_a5M
so I am going back looking at the youtiube videos , the recordings made and posted by Steph Watts, of Tim Miller and Mike McStay.
At the beginning of all this, I think we all watched the videos just trying to figure things out. But a re watch has ignited my imagination.
LE have always talked about the house in terms of Summer being a messy housekeeper and yielding no aspects of being a crime scene.
Totally off the wall thought:
Maybe its just me, but seriously , this house looks like it was ransacked. From an out of the box perspective, it looks like what a house would look like if a burglar was rummaging around for something specific. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fZVdnwOb9
Could someone have been looking for something they believe Jospeh had in the house,, gotten the family out of the house, held them alive til whatever it was could not be found and then deposed of them?
In the video posted in my previous link, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvPKlj_a5M
Mike McStay reverts to a missing camera, and he says something about taking the card out of it and another voice says oh there are a lot of sd cards, probably in the office.
What ever happened to that camera and the pics on it?
My point is just that we have always assumed that the reason the family was taken or moved out of the house, was to go to meet their doom. But what if the reason they were taken out of the house was because someone wanted access to the house itself, didn’t find what they wanted and killed McStays because of that.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/11/20/mcstay-family-murdered-will-desert-graves-yield-their-killers/comment-page-19/#comment-2215764
Honestly- I have worked on cases with million dollar rewards at one time, and varying others. I don’t know for certain, but I thought at one time Rick Baker was offering a much more significant amount. From my personal criminal investigative analyst perspective, I have not found rewards to be particularly effective regardless of the amount *in a cold case*.
Yes at one time Rick had a reward of I $25000 that expired with the publication of his book and by all accounts MM was not too happy about the reward for the safe return of HIS family. While I am no fan of Baker I find it unconscionable that a stranger had to offer a reward when God kshow much money was made through the Paypal donation button on McStay website and is still there afaik.
Very strange and very troubling to me.
Fwiw, I don’t have any evidence that anyone in Joey or Summer’s family was in a better position to offer a financial reward. I would also offer that we don’t know the contractual terms of that reward. There is protocol for that. I also do not think we can take any verification from someone who has attempted to delete his entire body of online work from the web. For starters, you can’t erase the web, lol, there are many, many resources to reproduce that content. Secondly, there is no evidence Baker ever posted a reward in trust or escrow, which would be required.
B
B
Scout
Go out to the Bobcat web site and learn about the equipment. There are complete specifications for each model and its variants. This includes weight, and track or tread width.
A heavy duty single axel trailer with an axel strength of 3,500 lbs. or greater could haul any of the Bobcat equipment. A dual axel (4-wheel) trailer that is available for rent or purchase at many places could do the job. The small 1/4 ton pick-up trucks can pull a trailer with that load even in hilly terrain, although with effort. This also means that a reasonably robust SUV can do it too. It would take a 1-ton flat bed truck to handle such a load and steel ramps for loading.
To really determine what the tracks were for the digging equipment and the transport equipment will require on-site inspection with quality photos by an experienced investigator of vehicle tracks. The other thing is the weathering of the tracks over time. This would affect the quality of the information. The SBCSO with help from the FBI have access to that type of expertise.
RE Reward money in MCStay case.
The SDPD declared the MCStays to be voluntarily missing within months of beginning the investigation. Anyone motivated by money would have, IMO, backed off at that point.
RB offered a sizable reward- but it is entirely possible that his real hope was that the revenue generated by his book if he ” cracked the case’ would far exceed that.
I still don’t get what his connection is the the McStay family aside form writing a book about them that made him money.
It is unclear if any of those monies from the book sales went to private detection agencies or other means of finding the MCStays- which, if his true intention of was simply to do justice, you would have thought we would have seen that.
And I agree with Blink about the RB reward money being unveiled with an escrow account- ro some provable means that it existed.
BUT if Rick Baker found NO ONE who would be deserving of any of the reward money, what the heck were his sources? Was the reward only for finding them?
Bottom line, are we to believe that Rick Baker got NO information form ANYONE that would qualify for the reward? That is all the more support for the idea that he was jumping to his own conclusions without valid factual proof.
Blink: Fwiw, I don’t have any evidence that anyone in Joey or Summer’s family was in a better position to offer a financial reward. I would also offer that we don’t know the contractual terms of that reward. There is protocol for that. I also do not think we can take any verification from someone who has attempted to delete his entire body of online work from the web. For starters, you can’t erase the web, lol, there are many, many resources to reproduce that content. Secondly, there is no evidence Baker ever posted a reward in trust or escrow, which would be required.
All very true and you need to play devils advocate here to maintain fairness and impartiality in order to stay with the just the facts.
Appearance in everything and even if unable to afford a reward I am sure there are a myriad of ways to raise one.
Baker lost credibility with his assumptions and forever deleting your own posts in not only infuriating to those who have invested time commenting but also give an impression of fip-flopping on the issue.
He has however my gratitude for uncovering info we might not necessarily have seen otherwise ( emails / phone logs etc) and for raising the profile of this case.
Imho your blog is the best place to be to get the facts without having to sort through the chaff of gossip, assumption etc.
It seems along with planning the perpetrator/s of this crime are extremely lucky that they were not seen on several video surveillance cameras ie. the neighbor or San Ysidro parking lot area among others. It would only have taken one small piece of bad luck to have foiled them and that is unusual for a crime of this magnitude, as rarely does a plan go exactly as desired once initiated.
Blink do you believe things are progressing favorably towards a resolution for the SBPD FBI at this point in the investigation?
Yes, I do.
B
#3(whodunit) I thought mm and his
Mother sb ramsacked the house and
If true what were they looking for?
A mountain of loose ends in all of
This and no answers for the general
Public certainly hope le has got it
This time
I’ve always been suspicious of Mike McStay. There has been a lot of talk about who could have had access to a Bobcat. This photo is from Mikes Precision Fire Systems page. Not saying he had a hand whatsoever in this horrific crime, but this picture screamed out at me. Thoughts??
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=560767113956001&set=pb.271683076197741.-2207520000.1390485422.&type=3&theater
alta writes:
I thought mm and his
Mother sb ramsacked the house and
If true what were they looking for?
A mountain of loose ends in all of
This and no answers for the general
Public certainly hope le has got it
This time
—-
Thank you for responding, I enjoy reading your posts. I agree so many loose ends and share the same hope LE gets it.
If the photo link from Donnie Griffin has Mike McStay as the operator of the Bobcat, that shows me that Mike is an experienced operator. He is pulling an eight or ten inch dia. section of steel pipe from a ditch that he apparently dug with the front bucket. This is a well dug excavation and shows that the fence support and the two small pipes were not disturbed. In addition, lifting an object with the bucket that high requires the experience of how to balance the load against the lift to keep the bucket and weight from flipping the Bobcat over.
If it is not Mike, then he has hired an experienced operator.
I do agree that Mike has significant construction experience and he noticed the tracks himself as he stated. I don’t trust the measurements enough for me to be able to form a solid conclusion on that equipment, but I do believe it is tire tracks, not a single track piece of machinery that made them. I also note the fact that the area is actually in a depressed or “decline” it will and does force more weight front.
B
Wouldnt the crime investigaters of seen
The tracks long before mm and of taken
Many diffrent kind. Of measurments
That would be accurate?
It would shock me if the forensics team did not note the tracks prior to Mike McStay.
Shock and scare I should say.
B
Imo only two ways to see him
He is alway pointing things out
He knows something or
He has zero faith in le
I can never decide
Im talking about mm
There are so many variables that affect a vehicle or trailer track in soil. The type of soil and the amount of moisture present as well as loose rock, if any, when the track is made and the the incline of the surface in regards to horizontal.
Most vehicles are designed with a balance of weight towards the front. Pickup trucks and other truck designs place more weight on the front so that a load in the bed will not elevate the front wheels and cause it to loose steerage.
I have actually hung weights to the front bumper of heavy trucks working in a yard so that they could lift more weight at the rear wheels.
I wish I shared Blink’s optimism regarding a resolution to this case.
This is the way I see it.
It is over 2 months since the bodies were discovered.
I would have thought if there was any worthwhile physical evidence at the gravesite there would have been an arrest by now.
So what is LE doing?
Are they building a case based on circumstantial evidence?
If so, good luck with that one.
From what I see at crime sites there are numerous POI’s surrounding the deceased McStay family.
In fact it is staggering that so many people believe so many POI’s were capable of carrying out a quadruple murder that included a couple of toddlers.
This is the most heinous of crimes.
Surely only the most evil of perpetrators can murder little children in cold blood.
The silence surrounding this case also baffles me.
Is anyone aware of any media questioning LE on how the investigation is progressing?
Is it not time a media spotlight was trained on this mystery?
I fervently hope Blink is correct about a resolution here.
But I’m worried this case is cold and getting colder by the day.
Perhaps I have been ‘damaged’ by the unsolved cases of Jennifer Kesse, Tracy Ocasio, Tara Grinstead and the Springfield Three. I followed those closely only to be disappointed with them all remaining unresolved.
My gut feeling is this case is going to join them.
Come on LE, prove me wrong.
Sigh.
As you know, my personal successes have all been cold cases. Every one. One the eve of the 8th anniversary of the Kesse case- one very near and dear to my heart- I hear you.
I admit I am giving benefit of doubt for a variety of reasons- right now, to include the fact that we are dealing with the “resetting” of the clock if you will- with evidence that is now forensically limited to insure a “quick resolve”. In a perfect world, level playing field, it is not time to sound that alarm. In a case where you have crimes within a crime, that do not necessarily implicate a motive or person.. it is a complex case indeed.
Will it make sense to you if I use the phrase “abundance of suspects”?
O/T: My piece on Kesse, which I stand by to this day-
http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/01/18/jennifer-kesse-breaking-news-witness-statement-points-to-someone-at-work-kesse-family-and-opd-press-conference-scheduled/
B
B
http://www.10news.com/news/body-found-in-trunk-identified-as-gianni-belvedere-was-victim-of-homicide
Bizarre triple homicide out of San Diego, third victim found in trunk of car in Riverside about 88 miles away.
Blink,
First, I would like to thank you again for doing what you do, sharing it with us, and providing this well-maintained (dare I say “curated”?) site for the exchange of our ideas.
Second (please forgive me if this has been asked/answered), but I have a question whose answer may be absurdly obvious yet I will ask it anyway: regarding the possible “third grave”, how or what does a possible grave look like? That is, what is to distinguish it from say, a random hole or dug-up looking area? In the alternative, if it were say, a filled-in possible grave, how might one determine or even posit that it might in fact have been a grave? Would it possibly look like disturbed earth? [all scenarios I am posing with an assumption that no remains were found in said possible grave]
I don’t know if I am sufficiently putting in to words what I’ve got in my head, so please let me know if I need to try to further describe…thanks!
- Alisa
Thank you A-
You are, I just don’t have a sufficient answer for your excellent question. From an aerial perspective, which would be my first ” go to”- I could not identify the 3rd site. From an analysts perspective, the relevance starts with the fact that there was one- if that makes sense.
B
Is Larry Larry R and is Milisa Missy G? Just wondering, if so. then you would have closer contact with the families?
Sierra- everyone is entitled to their confirmed anonymity here. Including you.
I do not disclose sources that may have asked to be un-named, nor do I allow questions regarding same. Respectfully- I would think it obvious that my sources are “within”.
B
Will it make sense to you if I use the phrase “abundance of suspects”?
asks Blink.
Yes it does.
And this what concerns me if LE has to go via the circumstantial route.
Fingers can be pointed in every direction, especially by a defence team.
O/T the Kesse piece was outstanding. I thought I knew that case like the back of my hand but I was stunned by the new information disclosed in that piece. I’m going to revisit that thread. The least it deserves is a bump.
O/T: Thank you. It was not possible without the tenacity of her devoted Dad. When she is found, and she will be, he deserves to own that. I can honestly say that in over 300 hours of investigation and analysis, there was never a question I asked him he could not answer or address.
To your point, again, the abundance of suspects is in play. It can be such a smokescreen- and a recovery should change everything.
B
WRG to Sierra says:
January 23, 2014 at 11:26 pm:
Is Larry Larry R and is Milisa Missy G? Just wondering, if so. then you would have closer contact with the families?
Sierra- everyone is entitled to their confirmed anonymity here. Including you.
I do not disclose sources that may have asked to be un-named, nor do I allow questions regarding same. Respectfully- I would think it obvious that my sources are “within”.
B
My comment: Exactly, and that is why I only used last initial and a nickname. Just pointing out that asking is not the same as demanding. If the poster declines to respond, that is certainly within their rights. My observation is that you, B, tend to assign motivations often where no exist.
I don’t know what that means. Therefore not wishing to assign it’s motivation, if you will.
B
Larry says:
January 23, 2014 at 8:34 pm
I wish I shared Blink’s optimism regarding a resolution to this case.
This is the way I see it.
It is over 2 months since the bodies were discovered.
I would have thought if there was any worthwhile physical evidence at the gravesite there would have been an arrest by now.
So what is LE doing?
Are they building a case based on circumstantial evidence?
If so, good luck with that one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Larry, great questions. Regardless of the type of evidence collected thus far, it takes time to thoroughly investigate a crime of this magnitude. LE could have a DNA match to a suspect and still want to gather more evidence to ensure a successful prosecution. Tying up all these loose ends can take months, and, in some cases, years. Hopefully we won’t have to wait that long to see this case go to trial.
By the way, many prosecuting attorneys prefer trying strong circumstantial evidence cases. Unlike some witnesses, circumstances don’t lie.
It would shock me if the forensics team did not note the tracks prior to Mike McStay.
Shock and scare I should say.
B
I would give up completely on a resolution if in fact MM had to direct forensics attention to the tracks, which I believe is not the case.
It would behoove MM to mention the tracks knowing they would be noticed and ‘help’ as a way to deflect if in fact he is involved somehow. He IS involved but to what extent we don’t know yet. Is it just opportunism or something more..time will tell…but only if forensics noticed the tracks on their own might I add..lol
I find it doubtful that the Isuzu was truly clean when the cops processed it. That just means there were no unknown prints or hair. You can’t drive a car for hour and hours and not leave behind one hair at least.
That to me points to the likelihood it was someone close to the family and that the cops probably have a very good idea of who it is.
Milisa writes:
http://www.10news.com/news/body-found-in-trunk-identified-as-gianni-belvedere-was-victim-of-homicide
Bizarre triple homicide out of San Diego, third victim found in trunk of car in Riverside about 88 miles away.
——-
This news is a tragedy, but what is alerting me is the reveal of how SD LE approached this case-
They apparently assumed it was a love triangle between a woman and two brothers. Then they find the brother’s body and zone in on financial problems that they believe may be related to borrowing money from drug people.
There were major cutbacks throughout the entire in SanDiego Law enforcement sector a few years ago, I am wondering if this affected the ability to employ personel who would perhaps have more talent for crime solving. NO ONE wants to disparage our state’s officers in law enforcement. BUt we empower them to know what we as citizens cannot know, and we have faith thatchy have techniques and expertise that is far above the public sector. So it is disappointing to see any case where it becomes so clear that law enforcement was on a completely wrong track when first presented with a crime.
I had a dream that a U haul was involved and the perp was an alcoholic. Not sure if a U haul can load a babcat. If so a U haul records search could be easy. Also a U haul could be backed in and unloaded to make the tracks as seen . If using a tailer the babcat tracks might have looked different.
Jeff says, that is an astoundingly good point. Sure narrows the suspect pool in terms of possibly excluding strange involvement. Blink, what are your thought?
What post are you referring to please?
B
Hello from the frozen tundra of the Midwest, Indiana! Blink did I miss something? Your comment to Larry references a success on the eve of the 8 year mark for Jennifer Kessee’s disappearance. So would that be yesterday? What was the “success”? And what are the other cold cases that have been personal successes? (writing this from mu phone, will not allow me to cut and paste so I’ve tried to maintain the integrity of your words).
Hi Trixie- Larry was discussing Jennifer Kesse’s case on the eve of the 8th anniversary of her disappearance. I would only call her case a successful endeavor on our part if she is recovered and/or their is an arrest in her case. I stand behind my work in her case- both published and case sensitive 100 % and my findings have not changed in the 2 years that has passed since then.
In conjunction with family members, LE, and leads generated, I would say that the personal/professional successes we have had would include the Christine Sheddy case, Chris George, Megan Sharpton from a recovery or successful prosecution perspective. There are several other active cases that I would not be able to disclose of course.
Success seems to be an odd word when we are talking about murdered individuals- but I can tell you in every case- there is no parent or loved one who would have rather “not known”.
B
Blink,
Have you ever noticed on this website the last two chilling comments by Viuk(could that be Vick?)? Has it been said anywhere that Summer and the children were killed in front of Joseph Mcstay?This creeps me out.
http://empathysinsights.blogspot.com/2012/01/mcstay-family.html
You don’t have to post this if it is not appropriate.
It’s actually VivK and I think they are speaking of their own vision. I do not put stock in the whole psychic thing for solving crimes I should say.
B
http://www.10news.com/news/drones-aid-in-search-for-missing-family
If LE has a treasure trove of leads and forensics to go on and are feverishly working towards a conclusion then I can see why they are staying quiet of late. However if they are at at an impasse then I think a reward of say $250,000 should be offered that may tempt someone on the periphery and not directly involved.
$1000 was never going to cut it and “up to” definitely not, the offer er knew that. I would love to know the answer as to why it was so low, it must have been asked by LE.
Jeff: That to me points to the likelihood it was someone close to the family and that the cops probably have a very good idea of who it is.
If LE know, then they have this case in the bag. They can discard all the red herrings and close in microscopically on that person and their sphere of influence if you know what I am trying to say.
I however do not believe they know who drove it.
(sorry if I am spamming) but was it ever verified that CM went to Saudi Arabia and finished the contract on his own dime? Seems out of character if that is so.
Blink asked: Bip- what are you categorizing as “25ft apart” please.?
Looking at the google earth aerial image, which was made prior to the 11/2013 discovery of the graves, one can see both graves, as well as a set of vehicle tracks leading up to each grave. The two graves, and the set of tracks leading up to each, look to be approximately 25 feet apart from each other.
Does Vick Johansen remain incarcerated in Mono Co. to this day?
No, released Dec 23rd
B
MO
While I don’t believe dreams are very relative to reality, sometimes our brain connects things is a strange way.
In regards to a U-Haul trailer or truck moving a Bobcat: The open 4-wheel is certified for 6,000 lbs and all of the big trucks could handle the weight. An enclosed body truck used for moving business or household equipment would need to be one with a low bed and clearance between the wheels of at least 67 inches. It would also leave a track of dual rear wheels. I don’t think the photos we have had access to were dual wheel tracks. A long way around to explain that a truck was not used to move a piece of equipment like the Bobcat.
Bobcat is not the only company that makes this type of equipment. It was the original and probably has the greatest market share.
I totally agree. Preliminarily- I do not believe it is a bobcat, but a skidsteer- and it was disengaged on the top road. But I admit, the only way to really evaluate is to be onsite and to plaster the tracks. All of them.
B
http://www.justice.gov/usao/pae/News/2007/oct/stovallinfo.pdf
I have found that it is possible to put a bobcat skid steer 773 in a u haul box truck.
Also the bobcat skid steer 773 specs say the width is 68 inches (with bucket).
Considering the bobcat thread- I agree that it could provide clues if it can be determined beyond doubt that a specific vehicle was used in connection with the graves, in that one could then examine people who had access to that type of vehicle, but
what about if a bobcat had been used to quarry that area for surface material, and the holes left behind were ” taken advantage of” and conveniently used for graves?
IMO
more telling information is
1.how long those bodies were in those graves.
2. What clothing they had on
3. means of death
Surely LE must know those answers by now?
btw, as far as Chase Merrit’s zinger of possible poisoning by Summer, poisoning can be detected in fingernails and hair so easily, I am quite surprised he would even make such implication.
Blink, can I assume from no answer you do not know if CM went to Saudi Arabia to finish the $80,000 EIP contract on his own dime?
ETA: 1/26/14 9:04PM EST
Original response:I can only confirm he completed the fountain.
Updated: I have been advised that as I stated, Chase did complete the fountain, however, his expenses were incurred by the client, it was not out of pocket for him.
B
mo
The bobcat series of small equipment is mostly skid steer (just one model a present has 4-wheel turn control) as is equipment built by a lot of other companies. The bucket width is wider than the track. Inside a box trailer or truck there is protection for the tires of the trailer or truck. If the width of the fender will allow the track of the equipment to clear, it is easy to load by simply lifting the bucket over the height of the fenders and then placing it down on the floor.
B
I thought that LE and CSI people were moving to a flexible plastic material for modeling vehicle tracks. Photos and models is the only way to know for certain.
They do for field work, but I don’t know if there is an issue with humidity and depth, etc for them to set correctly in that climate/terrain. I agree with you the macro imagery may be of more benefit to investigators on this one.
B
Do you know the purpose of this Dateline NBC interview w/ Michael McStay airing this April? He didn’t seem to know of ANY reason why his brother and family were missing for an entire 3 1/2 yrs. What NOW could he possibly add to this case after the remains were found?
…
https://www.facebook.com/groups/640581706009488/
I am aware that Mr. McStay has been extremely busy with several outlets and has been for a few weeks. I would note that this follows conversations with several folks where he insisted he did not, and will not speak to the media. It will be very interesting to see if those interviews and programming contains “never before seen images”. Mr. McStay is in possession of several SD cards from the McStay home.
B
How does Mike McStay keep several SD cards in a murder case? I would think that LE would ask for every piece of potential evidence. He may have turned them over for copying. If not, he should. He could be holding a major clue.
He may have turned them over eventually- or copies, I don’t know. I just know based on his own statements that he took them from a camera before LE ever viewed them, as well as at least the laptop. I get very concerned when the potential for corruption of evidence occurs and it is treated like a family asset. I can say that if coverage nets new images that have been compensated for image or royalty fees I will not hesitate to expose checkbook journalism.
Under CA law- he would not be the rightful owner.
That said- maybe that is not part of the programming and I am just being pre-emptive.
B
A) The poster was referring to my comment that the Isuzu could no possibly be truly ‘clean’. It just had no unknown prints or hair. You can’t drive around a truck for hours and hours without leaving at least hair. If processed correctly they got something.
B) MM’s press conference remains beyond bizarre.
C) Unlikely it was a Bobcat because it’s too noticeable and memorable, also in wet weather and poor terrain the Bobcast’s are top heavy. Silverado’s have the same width, are common and reliable in off-roading. Why shallow graves if you have a Bobcat ?
Respectfully Jeff- your (C) is completely unsupported. How would one notice and remember something in the dark they have not seen? Wet weather, heavy front load and poor terrain in that environment are likely responsible for the tracks preservation in the first place.
B
Bystander says:
January 26, 2014 at 7:36 am
“Blink, can I assume from no answer you do not know if CM went to Saudi Arabia to finish the $80,000 EIP contract on his own dime?”
ETA: 1/26/14 9:04PM EST
Original response:I can only confirm he completed the fountain.
Updated: I have been advised that as I stated, Chase did complete the fountain, however, his expenses were incurred by the client, it was not out of pocket for him.
I am sorry Blink, had you already answered that question? I can not find the post/answer/”Original response”.
Chase intimated he went on his own dime and ended up losing on the deal although I cannot find the link I read that at.
I included my original response and update. CM expenses were covered by the client so it would appear his comments are false or misrepresented.
B
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_dialing
a pocket dial can happen with the last dialed number or the beginning or end of the numbers in the contact list.
Do killers typically confiscate phones immediately before tying someone up or after tying someone up. The dial to cm could have been an accidental pocketdial, an on purpose type pocket dial, an actual call intentional for help or a killers confirmation call. Any thoughts on that or other reasons for the call?
Depends on the circumstances, there is no definitive answer to that. It is my personal belief that the ping study must support that Joey and Summer’s phones were together traveling from Fallbrook until the bridge. For me, considering they were found murdered in 2 separate graves nearly 100 miles away without them- I have to believe they may have been intercepted at the bridge.
B
having problems posting. My comment (submitted X3) did not show . Usually shows with ” awaiting moderation “.
Re: Posts about Bobcat.
I think it is highly unlikely the graves were dug other than manually with a shovel. In other words, I think it is highly unlikely that any machinery was used in the digging of the graves, on account of several factors:
1) Speed. You can dig a shallow grave-sized hole in readily workable desert soil/sand faster with a shovel than with a machine, due to time involved unloading machine, operating it, reloading it. I’ve dug holes in desert soil for landscaping work (Palm Springs area), and I could dig a shallow grave in 15 minutes max if I had to, probably more like 10 minutes. Going down deeper with a shovel is another story, but these graves were shallow.
2) Stealth. Operating machinery is more noisy and visible than working along with a shovel, and it is easier to use a shovel in the dark. Or in the light of day. HEY EVERYONE, LOOK AT ME AND MY BOBCAT/TRAILER, I’M JUST IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO DIG A FEW HOLES. DON’T MIND ME…
3) Simplicity. Bringing equipment in adds needless complexity. Using a five dollar Chinese-made shovel from Home Depot doesn’t require access to or knowledge of operation of equipment, load/unload, hitch, etc.
4) Size. As noted by another poster, if killer went to the trouble to bring in machinery, why not dig a deeper grave? Shallow is indicative of hand-dug w/ shovel.
I cannot understand why folks speculate that machinery may have been used. Makes zero sense. Those tracks were very likely left by a pickup or SUV, probably owned by the killer(s). I think the killer likely drove up with JM’s body and a shovel, backed in, dug grave, placed body in grave, left 15 minutes later. Returned at later date with the other 3 bodies and the shovel, backed in 20 feet over from first grave, repeat… I’ll eat my shirt if it is ever proven or admitted to that machinery was used in the digging of the graves. And I’ll eat my key-board if it turns out the graves were pre-dug in anticipation of the commission of murder.
I hope you can muster a large appetite. That family was murdered in those graves. Nobody backed in and dumped their bodies. Until such time LE decides to release that information publicly, I will say that is just my opinion.
B
Hi Ms. Blink:
According to Patrick there are some things happening in the coming weeks. Have you any news you’re able to share? Thanks!!
I have already stated it is my opinion that a gj is being impaneled, and y’all know about the upcoming coverages. Outside of that I would recommend asking Mr. McStay.
B
For the love of god here. Help me understand how it is possible that MM is still n possession of potential evidence (SD cards)???? When legally nothing in that house should have been touched because it did not belong to him or his mother? It is simply scary how this case has been handled. Nothing short of an arrest will take to clear the name of the SDPD.
Agreed
B