McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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“With the blessing of the SBSD, I will have a big announcement in the next few days.”
Where RB is concerned I would venture it’s not so much a “blessing”
he got from SBSD but rather “well we can’t arrest you if you do this but…”.
It’s always a fine line RB walks and with a little PT Barnum thrown in for good measure.
I do not speak for the family. I am just a concerned citizen who, in caring about the outcome of this case, has become increasingly concerned about the Rick Baker’s behavior toward and actions in regard to the family.
In regard to Rick Baker’s offer of a reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the McStay family killers, it might be valuable to review how this reward was brought forward.
Around April 24th, Baker states that the SBCSD asked him to take down his blog. Baker makes a big show of respecting their wishes–for about two days. Then suddenly, inexplicably, his blog is back, no change that I could see to the content, and Baker announces that he has a BIG announcement, coming soon–one that will be made with the approval of the SBCSD. (For those new to Baker, he takes down his blog all the time, bringing it back again.)
Rather than just waiting until he can make this BIG announcement with the “blessing” of the SBCSD, Baker immediately proceeds on to a series of posts to his blog that make blatant, yet cryptic claims:
Baker posts: that Michael McStay will be arrested for certain by August. Baker doesn’t support this with any evidence, just puts the information forward as fact, and lets the comments on his blog roll in.
I have followed Baker and posted to his blog in the past and my guess from reading the Baker blog frequently, is that Baker controls the blog with an iron fist. He often posts and then erases comments. It is not unusual at all for him not to post–I have written in many, many times and not been posted. So it is reasonable to assume that any post that shows up on Baker’s blog has to have been chosen by Baker, and approved by him to some extent. Meaning, if there are inflammatory posts about the family, these posts were approved by Baker for his blog, regardless of whether he approves of the content.
In a following post to the one regarding arrest of MMcstay, Baker offers a “kewpie doll” prize on his blog, if someone can locate the exact location of an IP address. Again, very cryptic. But the inference to be had, and that was had, was that the IP address was someone who’d visited Baker’s blog (Baker has in the past threatened those posting criticism toward him, with exposure by way of their IP address).
Again, no real information is given, and Baker posts comments, supposedly authored by others, but most are anonymous, that allude at first to this address being that of Joey McStay’s mother–and then all other types of claims are made. Baker never explains the purpose of the post, and as of this writing, he still has not.
Still no big announcement comes, but I thought, and I would imagine others thought as well, that the above was all the BIG news that we were waiting for. No. Wrong.
Then Baker posts his own comments and another comment he claims was from an anonymous source, that both basically imply that most of those close to the McStay/Aranda victims were all somehow vaguely involved with seamy, criminal schemes of an undisclosed nature. Again, no evidence given. No exact instances listed—he just floats the idea out there that most everyone one around Joey and Summer was in someway corrupt.
On the tail-end of the above, finally, Baker announces his reward. And immediately following this announcement many, many posts published to the Baker blog are directed against Patrick McStay.
There were so many ways in which Baker could have presented, what on the surface would appear to be a very generous gesture. But he offered this reward, sandwiched in between posts to his blog that carried huge accusations against and insult to surviving family members. And there is no verification given that the reward money is being kept in a secure escrow, or even exists. As Patrick McStay points out on his own blog, why didn’t Baker simply post the reward with Crimestoppers?
I hope the reward is real and gets results. But I absolutely understand the family’s concerns and the skepticism that has since arrisen.
Thank you for taking the time to review Chelsea-
B
Blink,
So sorry. My server went down and I thought my previous post had been erased. If you do choose to post, can you please post the second version. I rewrote it, and the second version I think is better. And i understand if you don’t post either, as well.
Thanks!!!!!
There is no question we all want to see justice for the Mcstay family and that includes Rick Baker. Enough of all Rick Baker bashing. There is a murder or murders out there who are getting away with this horrible crime. Lets keep the focus on that!
Liz- If it’s ok with you, I will do the moderating ’round these parts.
I agree that focus on Baker exacerbates his misguided and dare I say, sinister intentions, but one should expect that from one that is re-victimizing a family and potentially impeding a criminal investigation.
B
Is there gonna be anything good comming
Out during interview this week wth mike
Mcstay?
So now this psychologically unstable man RB is acussing you of plagiarism?
I have no idea what you are referring to and since I have never plagiarized a thing in my life, I am not concerned in his latest drama.
B
Cant find interview .. Is it.still on
Blink writes:
I have no idea what you are referring to and since I have never plagiarized a thing in my life, I am not concerned in his latest drama.
B
—-
Rick Baker posted that the list of arrests for Macfadden- the record sheet that is available to anyone , by accessing a number of sources available , and tried to claim that you had ” lifted” this from his site.
I say tried because it is so blatantly obvious that he does not own the rights to anyone’s criminal history, period.
With the lack of information being disclosed to a recently re galvanized public, this person is filling the void for spinning minds.
Obstructing justice is actually a crime, and he teeters – insanely- on the line between freedom of speech and libel.
Whatever.
LOL. You would think in all the chats he has had with Kavannaugh they might have discussed web content, google bots, cache and time stamps.
Whatever is right, he has bigger worries.
B
B..u said u think case will solve
I think so also. Not so sure if it
Will be in my life time personaly
Given up hope…i hope family
Has not and will persue until
The end..i hope someone shuts
Rb up in a legal way…how does
He sleep at night?..he acts like
His actions r not being judged
By a higher authority…he is
Misleding himself
Blink , Did they ever locate the painter and interview him? Was he cleared? Do you still believe it was him possibly who made the Mexico inquiries/computer searches at The McStays home??
Did his girlfriend supply him an alibi? Thank you.
Unfortunately I am not able to answer that as this is an open investigation.
B
There were no links in that post, and I quote literally have no idea what you are talking about. I would ask that you re-post, with links and mark it private in the first line please if you would like me to review.
Thank you
B
I am not sure that I can do that, and I can assure you, I am not going to entertain that sludge here. What I can tell you, is that Mr. Baker has copied content onto his site, without my permission, in violation of DCMA fair use guidelines- and made an allegation about a poster that does not even post on his site.
If what you are saying is accurate, it is not your battle nor mine, there are actually very serious remedies for that. It would be Ms. Hoffman’s as far as the statements about her/work
I am aware of some serious damage she has done to criminal cases with erroneous or even false info- so in that regard only- she definitely has that coming.
B
Private
Blink, OK. I’m just covering my bases–because as you know, I never made a claim to be her. I don’t know where he got that idea from. Just another chapter in the wierdness.
Thanks!
Blink,
I wish this case was solved. I do not like people jumping on a bandwagon to make money or feel important. I believe justice will be served and those responsible will pay. Thank you for being you.
Back at ya Kjazz
B
Blink, do you know if an Executor has been named for the McStay estate? There is a sufficient amount of Unclaimed Funds that needs to be recovered by the estate.
No probate to date.
B
Guess that’s what I get for starting at the end and reading backwards! Last night I came and read these last few comments. I see the one above regarding Ms Hoffman. Tonight I read back through the past pages and thought that the Chelsea whose been posting was her! That’s what I get for being gone for too long!! Trying to catch up on all the recent events (events as in Blink’s work and bolded replies.
Crawling back into hole again : )
Hi Blink
Well here we are , the last week of May, and no Mike McStay interview….what do you make of that, if it isn’t asking too much of your time to reply .
It has been my experience that when a news program backs off an interview or story as it were, it has to do with an inability to provide a balanced piece. That can mean different things to different outlets.
I can also that it is unusual that a program allow someone to announce their participation prior to scheduling, for that very reason.
B
blink writes
It has been my experience that when a news program backs off an interview or story as it were, it has to do with an inability to provide a balanced piece. That can mean different things to different outlets.
—-
also possible that the content of the interview did not yield anything to exploit?
Apparently there was a CNN promo on TV about the McStay family scheduled for June 3rd. Tim Miller to be interviewed. Blink, can you confirm this? Thanks!
Yes
B
CNN is now running promos for the show. Set to air on June 3, 9pm EST. Supposed participants include PM, Tim Miller ansd Steph Watts.
Here is the info directly from PM about the CNN documentary special:
6/3/14
09:00 PM “Buried Secrets: Who Murdered The McStay Family” CNN
6/4/14
12:00 AM “Buried Secrets: Who Murdered The McStay Family” CNN
6/8/14
07:00 PM “Buried Secrets: Who Murdered The McStay Family” CNN
Patrick McStay confirmed the show.
Patrick McStay
Buried Secrets: Who Murdered The McStay Family?
CNN Documentary Program Airing June 3, 2014 at 9PM Eastern / 8 PM Central
OK, I just spoke with the producer and I can now tell you it is true. The program airs next Tuesday June 3rd at 9pm Eastern/ 8pm Central. As the promo shows you, I am in the program along with a number of people that you haven’t seen or haven’t been seen since around early 2010. You will see and hear from me quite a lot.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/search4mcstays/
New date for CNN McStay Special Report-July 1st
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/justice/mcstay-murder-mystery/
For the latest on the McStay murders, watch “Buried Secrets: Who Murdered the McStay Family?” Tuesday, July 1, at 9 p.m. ET on CNN.
Victorville, California (CNN) — Four years ago, Patrick McStay lost everything he loved.
His son, Joseph, his daughter-in-law, Summer, and their two little boys — Gianni, 4, and Joseph Jr., 3 — vanished.
“From Day One, I just had this gut feeling that I was never going to see them again,” he said, swallowing tears. “I just knew. Something told me, I wasn’t going to see them again.”
The McStays disappeared from their home in suburban San Diego in February 2010.
There were no signs of a struggle. No apparent plan to flee.
Nearly four years later, the mother, father and two boys were found slain in the Mojave Desert — their bodies buried in shallow graves.
How did they get there? Who killed them?
From the beginning, the case has baffled investigators, but they aren’t giving up.
Said John McMahon, sheriff of San Bernardino County, in an exclusive interview with CNN: “It is certainly my hope that at some point in the future, we’ll be able to solve this, and bring the suspect or suspects to justice.”
McStay’s brother to killers: ‘You guys are cowards’
The disappearance
February 4, 2010, began as an ordinary day in the McStay home in Fallbrook, a community of about 30,000 people about 18 miles from the Pacific Coast and 50 miles north of San Diego.
Patrick McStay spoke on the phone with his son, who ran a custom water feature business, and was scheduled to have a lunch meeting around noon. Summer McStay spent the day caring for the kids and overseeing the family’s home renovation.
They were looking forward to their youngest son’s birthday party that weekend.
But that night, the family of four suddenly left the house — the doors locked, the car gone. Inexplicably, their two beloved dogs were left outside without food or water.
“(It’s) as if you took off really fast but were coming back,” said Susan Blake, Joseph McStay’s mother, who is divorced from Patrick McStay.
“Your thoughts are going wild. ‘Well, why would they be missing?’ Something’s not right here,” she said.
The investigation
Early evidence pointed investigators south.
Four days after the McStays disappeared, detectives say the family’s white Isuzu Trooper was parked and subsequently towed from a parking lot just steps from the Mexican border.
And the car wasn’t the only clue.
After they found the Isuzu, investigators discovered someone at the McStay home had done a computer search for getting passports to Mexico. They also found surveillance video showing a family of four matching the McStays’ description crossing on foot into Mexico on February 8.
“I just thought, well, maybe they took off,” said Joseph’s mother.
But his father wasn’t buying it.
“I said right up front, the first time I saw it (the surveillance footage), it wasn’t them,” said Patrick McStay, adding that Summer was afraid of Mexico.
“Would Summer take her two children in there? Heck, no,” he said.
Missed opportunities
Patrick McStay worried detectives were chasing dead-end clues.
“I could have probably hired some Boy Scouts and done a better job,” he said.
He reached out to Tim Miller, founder of the nonprofit search-and-rescue organization Texas Equusearch, which, in turn, contacted freelance investigative journalist Steph Watts for help.
One point that raised questions for Watts was the last known call from Joseph McStay’s cell phone. The call was to a friend, Chase Merritt. It came in about 40 minutes after a neighbor’s security camera captured the family’s Isuzu pulling out of the McStay’s cul-de-sac. Merritt didn’t answer.
Among those questions, Watts said, were, “Did Joseph actually make that call from his phone, or did somebody else take Joseph’s phone and make that call? Was he trying to call for help?”
The journalist also noted the impact of the delay in reporting the family missing to law enforcement.
Joseph’s brother contacted authorities 11 days after the McStays disappeared. He says he waited because he didn’t want to overreact, and thought the family might just be on vacation.
“The first few hours are so critical, the first few minutes … The beginning of someone trying to commit a crime against you, that’s the only chance you have to get out,” Watts said.
2013: Who were the McStays?
Bodies found in McStay family mystery
The bodies
The call the family feared finally came in November 2013, from an off-roading motorcyclist in the Mojave Desert.
More than 150 miles from the U.S.-Mexico border, and some 100 miles north of the McStay home, the biker found what looked to be part of a human skull in a remote area of Victorville, California.
Authorities investigated and found four skeletons in two shallow graves. With the help of dental records, they determined the bodies belonged to the McStays.
Once considered a missing persons case, the investigation moved to homicide. It also switched jurisdictions — passing from the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department to the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department.
Jan Caldwell, with the San Diego department, defended her office’s handling of the case.
“This is an incredibly thorough investigation,” she said, her hand atop a thick stacks of files. “Thumbing through it, I can see phone records, I see photographs, I see communications.
“And to have done all of this — to have compiled this kind of a massive file and still not know the answer — enormously frustrating,” Caldwell said last year, soon after the remains were discovered.
The San Diego County Sheriff’s Department is no longer commenting on the case. It refers all questions to San Bernardino, which declines to get into specifics, citing the ongoing investigation.
Summer’s mother, brother and sister also declined to comment to CNN.
As the pieces begin to come together, it’s looking to me like it was extremely orchestrated. So we have to ask ourselves, why?
Investigative Journalist Steph Watts
The mystery
Detectives still have not named any suspects or persons of interest.
“There was certainly evidence found in and around the grave sites, but at this point we’re not prepared to talk about what evidence we did locate,” said McMahon, the San Bernardino sheriff.
Watts said the only way the case will be cracked now is if someone talks.
“There was more than one person involved in this case because not one person dragged four people out to the desert and buried them single-handedly,” he said.
“As the pieces begin to come together, it’s looking to me like it was extremely orchestrated. So we have to ask ourselves, why?”
Like Watts, Patrick McStay believes the killer, or killers, has to be someone who hated his family for a reason — but that reason is unclear.
So many theories. So many questions. So few answers.
“It’s like a play. The first act has just ended. We’ve got three more acts to go,” he said.
This story was reported by CNN’s Randi Kaye and Jessica Small in Victorville and Melissa Dunst Lipman in New York. It was written by Dana Ford in Atlanta.
Another cnn not happening..its
Bad when.media not interested
That much helps keep case cold
Excuse my frustration
Blink please answer this. Coming up on 6 months after discovery of a murder. Have you ever known of any other case that NO case information was released for that long ?
Hundreds. It is an active criminal investigation. Do I think that is a solid way to work a case that was 4 years cold and transferred out of a few jurisdictions? No.
B
Okay Blink now that you’ve thrown us a morsel I’ll bite. In your experience, what could law enforcement working this case have done/ be doing differently? I realize you don’t want to overtly criticize any particular agency so no need for specifics, generalizations would be fine. Thank you.
I can’t critique them because I do not know where they are in their investigation per se- but making the assumption that they were at least open to RB reward “strategy” is not a good sign. They need a SMART roundtable for investigational direction to support lead generation from the public. The agencies that are good at using the Public for case lead generation close cases, imo.
B
I have a comment. I believe the McStays were victims of a random act of violence. Here’s why . . . Why would any killer, after burying the bodies be stupid enough to drive the car for any distance much less all the way to the Mexican border? Why would a victim’s (Joey) hands be bound? This was about money, a botched car jacking or home invasion gone bad. After it went bad, maybe the call to Chase angering the killers, they were all killed. most likely outside of the vehicle. One killer panicked taking the car and driving south. the bodies may have lain somewhere for a time before one or more ‘moved’ them to the desert. Any comments?
Ok, since you asked for comments, Jerry Lamonica, I will bite! My personal opinion is that this was not random at all. The actions of too many who knew the family so soon after they disappeared points to knowledge of some kind. The vehicle reportedly did not show up at that parking lot until 4 days later,which means it was somewhere else during that time. That does not seem like panic to me, that seems calculated. As was the placement of the vehicle at the border, furthering the ruse of a voluntary disappearance over the border. Of course, this is only my opinion, but my vote is not random.
If It is true that LE gave RB their “blessing” of posting a reward, and that that is cause for concern , I am even more alarmed regarding the fact that Patrick Macstay is currently asking the public to come forward with information if posible. To me that points to the fact that this investigation is posibly in trouble.
No, those are RB’s words. His reward is posted outside of the scope and investigative efforts of SBCSD.
There are mounting concerns about the investigation, correct.
B
The killer or killers got lucky in this one. They leave the car at the strip mall right after the murder. Rick Baker’s book seems to indicate the car was not left in the lot Monday night but rather it was left earlier. Luckily, a family of four resembling the McStays shows up to befit the left voluntarily theory. The police buy it despite the best evidence (ie family members viewing the video and saying it was not them) This is where the staging and knowledge theory falls apart. That theory only makes sense if it was the McStays in the video. We know now that can’t be true. (unless we believe they were killed in Mexico and the bodies returned later) The luck for the killer continues when the family computer shows a search about ‘travel to Mexico.’ Try this simple test. Google “passport requirements for children” The first hit that comes up is about travel to Mexico. Was the search really about Mexico? Or just about passport requirements?
Let’s examine the staging and or knowledge theory. I believe my previous question (June 10 8:26pm) is a good one. Why would the killer go through all this extra work at the risk of leaving even more evidence behind? Why drive the Trooper 150 miles, probably having to refuel? and run the risk of being stopped by police on the way? Why run the risk of being caught on camera? The answer is obvious. Only someone who is desperate and has just committed a heinous, violent crime would do this. And someone who is going to Mexico never to be seen again.This was not a family member or friend. Think about this . . . why would a family member, business associate, or friend want to kill this family? They were not wealthy, they did not carry huge life insurance policies. Their home had a mortgage. Also, having just committed a crime that they could go to the gas chamber for why would anyone start staging evidence? Leaving the car at the border, doing computer searches? The families actions after this crime are a result of human nature not of their guilt.
Also consider this . . . In a case where the police have been so tight lipped one interesting fact did emerge. Someone leaked the fact that one of the victims hands were bound with electrical cord. I believe this is the LE way of saying. “hey this was not the brother or ex boyfriend” These people were brutally executed. The tying of hands also indicates this was not a crime of passion. The killers wanted something.
Joey was most likely accosted at some time after he returned home and stopped for gas. The killers may have forced him to call Summer away form the house. Maybe to bring money or his ATM card. Something went wrong. Summer shows up with two screaming kids, she herself freaks out, Joey tries to call for help.
Chasing family and friends in this case will never substitute for what really happened.
I pray for the police to keep going forward.
Blink: You’ve stated in the past that you think this case will solve. Do you still feel the same way? Also, can you elaborate on the “mounting concerns about the investigation”?
As always, thanks for your feedback. I truly respect and appreciate it.
I do believe it will solve, absolutely. Does that mean that appropriate overview and oversight needs to be in place? of course.
The age of this case as it relates to preservation of evidence is going to present it’s challenges.
B
Blink said: The agencies that are good at using the Public for case lead generation close cases, imo.
Thanks Blink. Would the FBI be considered an agency that uses the public effectively for leads or are you thinking of smaller, local police departments? I can see where both might have advantages. A smaller PD might have the local street connections at their disposal and be able to gain valuable leads there.
It depends on the case DeesMom- I typically see usage of the public for information to bolster an existing suspect or theory.
HOWEVER- I am encouraged by some recent cases that ( are very old and should have used the public long ago) have solved by publishing information and asking for tips.
B
1. Jerry Lamonica says:
June 12, 2014 at 6:18 am
Jerry says (snipped)
Let’s examine the staging and or knowledge theory. I believe my previous question (June 10 8:26pm) is a good one. Why would the killer go through all this extra work at the risk of leaving even more evidence behind? Why drive the Trooper 150 miles, probably having to refuel? and run the risk of being stopped by police on the way? Why run the risk of being caught on camera? The answer is obvious. Only someone who is desperate and has just committed a heinous, violent crime would do this. And someone who is going to Mexico never to be seen again.This was not a family member or friend. Think about this . . . why would a family member, business associate, or friend want to kill this family? They were not wealthy, they did not carry huge life insurance policies. Their home had a mortgage. Also, having just committed a crime that they could go to the gas chamber for why would anyone start staging evidence? Leaving the car at the border, doing computer searches? The families actions after this crime are a result of human nature not of their guilt.
Also consider this . . . In a case where the police have been so tight lipped one interesting fact did emerge. Someone leaked the fact that one of the victims hands were bound with electrical cord. I believe this is the LE way of saying. “hey this was not the brother or ex boyfriend” These people were brutally executed. The tying of hands also indicates this was not a crime of passion. The killers wanted something.
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@Jerry, very interesting post. I have wondered if the assassin(s) drove the McStay vehicle to the parking lot after committing this crime and re-entered Mexico. You can bet that the FBI has been searching all the border crossing videos looking at this possible angle. Like you, I do not think this crime was committed by family, friends or coworkers, nor do I think it was random. I also agree with you that it is likely that the assassins wanted something and killed the entire family when they didn’t get it. By disappearing/killing the entire family, including two tiny, defenseless children, IMO, the assassins may have been sending a message. We should ask ourselves what the assassins may have been doing or looking for in those days before they drove the car to the border.
Just my two cents’ worth, nothing more.
Nice to see you Grace. I do not believe this crime was committed by a stranger to the family. I am not sure what message is worth sending when a family of four is missing for nearly 4 years and are found accidentally. If this crime was statement worthy it appears to be lost on everyone to date.
I totally agree with your thoughts that the answer lies within the activities of the “assassins”. Interesting choice of words I agree with, btw
B
Blink was there video of the family that went into
Mexico ever returning back into ca.sorry if been
Already talked about
GraceintheHills says:
June 23, 2014 at 2:28 pm
1. Jerry Lamonica says:
June 12, 2014 at 6:18 am
@Jerry, very interesting post. I have wondered if the assassin(s) drove the McStay vehicle to the parking lot after committing this crime and re-entered Mexico. You can bet that the FBI has been searching all the border crossing videos looking at this possible angle. Like you, I do not think this crime was committed by family, friends or coworkers, nor do I think it was random. I also agree with you that it is likely that the assassins wanted something and killed the entire family when they didn’t get it. By disappearing/killing the entire family, including two tiny, defenseless children, IMO, the assassins may have been sending a message. We should ask ourselves what the assassins may have been doing or looking for in those days before they drove the car to the border.
Just my two cents’ worth, nothing more.
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Blink says, Nice to see you Grace. I do not believe this crime was committed by a stranger to the family. I am not sure what message is worth sending when a family of four is missing for nearly 4 years and are found accidentally…”
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Blink, I haven’t been here in awhile, but I thought you were convinced that a CI called and led LE to the graves. These graves were so close to the road, and in an area still used by off-roaders, that it seemed inevitable that they would eventually be found.
What type of person can murder two young children and shove them into shallow graves? Imo, these assassins were not friends, not family. Could it have been a co-worker that was on the fringe of Joey’s company? Someone who felt Joey owed him something? Yep. Joey may not have realized he had been targeted.
Regarding “statement worthiness of this crime” – disappearing an entire family and burying the bodies in the desert would send a clear message to others “in the business” who might think of crossing this particular type of perpetrator(s) or his associates.
My thoughts are, of course, speculation. None of us knows what exactly happened to this family, and why. I am convinced of one thing: the person(s) who killed those kids is not your average, run-of-the-mill criminal.
For the time being, yes, I still believe that however it came about, a CI or tipster of some kind facilitated the “finding”.
The grave site is not close to the road, and the dirt road that was accessed can only really be driven with a 4×4.
We definitely agree that this was no run of the mill criminal and imo more than one person. This was an assassination.
It should be noted any other cases with even a hint of similarity to this one, the act ( or message) was not covered up in the least. The number one reason (as I know you know) to cover up a crime in this way is because it’s detection will be the connection to the offender (s). So either this recovery does, or it points wherever the perps want it to.
B
Blink will there ever come a time when
U will offer your personal theory on
This crime? As im sure yours would
Be the most accurate.im personaly
Starting to wonder if its even the players
That peaple have been talking about.
In my mind I have always assumed it
Was about eip.could we all be wrong
alta- I so appreciate and respect your question. I can’t form a theory without verified information as it would be improper.
The only thing I am certain of is that this crime was not random, and that is was a retributive act from some perceived wrong.
B
With all due respect, I don’t see how the tying of hands excludes family or friends, or that it signifies anything other than simply to subdue and immobilize one or both of the McStays. And, I agree with Blink, if a message was intended to be sent, it could only be if the bodies were immediately found. They were discovered four years later, and very well might never have been.
Blink said:
alta- I so appreciate and respect your question. I can’t form a theory without verified information as it would be improper.
The only thing I am certain of is that this crime was not random, and that is was a retributive act from some perceived wrong.
B
________________
Blink, I agree. The perceived wrong that comes to mind was the CPS case and MMcF. With his criminal history and bad temper, perhaps somebody was paid to permanently silence the family. JMO
Thanks b I respect your answer
Just so my position is clear let me say I don’t believe any message was being sent. That was someone else’s theory.
Let me elaborate on my idea that the tying of someone’s hands suggests that the killers wanted something.
Even at gunpoint very few people would allow there hands to be tied unless they had an expectation of being released.
You see this all the time in crime news. A convenience store clerk is found in the back room with duct taped hands, an elderly couple is tied up during a home invasion, a young girl is tied up then raped. My point here . . . rarely is a person tied up then murdered. In all these scenarios the perps needed time and wanted something. Tying someone’s hands buys you time to get the money (or whatever you are after) and then make your getaway. But in this case something went wrong. It has been widely reported that Summer had an abrasive personality. This may have contributed to the murder. Can you imagine someone grabbing one of the boys in front of her? This was a horrible, heinous crime and it was not committed by a family member or friend. If anyone could come up with a scenario in which a family member or friend committed this crime I would like to hear it.
Please include the tying of hands in your post.
I do criticize the family members for not being more forthcoming with the police. All should have voluntarily submitted to polygraphs from day one. They either have bad attorneys or something else in their lives to hide. But this does not make them killers. Chase Merritt did take and pass a polygraph (apparently after being advised not to) I applaud him for this.
Jerry
It could be to capture, to hold captive, to control the situation, to restrain them from trying to fight back, to transport them, to throw them in a vehicle, to make a stop, to throw them on the desert floor.
I don’t know if one of them -allowed- their hands to be bound so much as forced. There are so many scenarios one could think of. They could have been taken by surprise, used violence, threatened the family, knocked them around, pinned to the ground, sat on, knee to the back, crudely tie the electrical cord or whatever was used.
But is Baker the only one who said this was done or has it been confirmed since? Here’s a comment on it from 10news.com,
“Baker says even his law enforcement sources close to the McStay case are keeping the details of their deaths close to the vest, but says one did tell him one thing that was done to one of the bodies. ‘One of the bodies, either Summer or Joseph, their hands had been bound,’ he said.”
Jerry..alot of peaple are tied up
With the intent of of eventualy
Killing them…rape is one example
I dont think anybody in any crime
Would agree to be tied up. Most
Likely it was joey the strongest
Of them I would have to think he
Did not volunter..anyone forced to being
Tied up has a pretty good idea there gonna die
Imo
alta- let me say this. Jerry, nor anyone can say who or why an individual was tied up without specific case information, and this is my most generic answer. For anyone to think that one can determine a theory for a quadruple murder based on who may or may not have been bound is just ridiculous.
B
I looked through the comments and didn’t see anything along these lines, but I could be missing it too. Do the cell phone records of Joey and Summer show who called them that night and the next few days? Could be telling to see who didn’t call them. Did CM ever try to call Joey back after the message was left on his machine?
Jack- presumptively, yes. I have reviewed Joey’s. However, we are looking at the lack of available records for at least 2 of Summer’s phones, and the possibility of Joey having another phone. NOBODY, and I underscore NOBODY outside of LE has this complete information.
B
This person has no concept of what happens in real life. They refer to TV dramas and what happens on TV, they need to remember that’s TV!
So let’s say someone gains entrance to the house before JM gets home (or even after) grabs one of the children and puts a gun to their head and threatens to kill the child if you don’t do what they want. They tell you they are going to let you go after they get what they want. But all that is a lie to get control because they are going to move all of the family for what’s to happened. So they allow them to tie them with the threat of killing the children. Then they load them in vehicles and head north. Now this would take more than one person and they would have to have a vehicle to get there. So we now how a completely possible scenario that is in total disagreement with your theory and shows the flaw when you say they wouldn’t allow themselves to be bound. Add to that the possibility that JM may have came home and Summer was already bound and they had control of the children. Do you really think they would jeopardize the lives of their children?
Jerry,
If you read the posts from the beginning you will find numerous theories – most believe that someone close to the McStay’s was involved, including myself. Blink is very credible, by the way. I don’t think any of us want to go backwards and start the theories again.
Blink, when you reviewed Joey’s phone record, did you notice if there was a call to Susan Blake from Joey on Feb. 4th? In looking at the published phone record, I did not see that call. Do you know if Joey’s phone record was altered before it was published?
From an analyst’s perspective- I do not believe ANY publicly accessible record of Joey’s cell is “true and correct”, and overall, just analyzing his cell activity is a disservice to this case.
I have seen altered versions of Joey’s cell, yes.
B
Patricks friend ….i see what you are saying
You are correct I would let myself be tied in hopes
Of protecting my child never thought of it that
Way ….i dont watch tv though lol
Patrick thanks for your theory. It sounds very plausible.
But it doesn’t sound like it was carried out by someone they knew. Which is my point exactly. You are correct they would not jeopardize the lives of the children which is why they allowed themselves to be restrained. There was an expectation of being untied after the perps got what they wanted.
Thanks for backing up my theory.
Jerry- If Patrick chooses to post here, as he knows he is welcome, he will. I do not wish to to have anyone misquote him directly.
I do not agree that these persons were unknown to them in the least. No disrespect intended, but theory lacks merit- how could you possibly say what expectation anyone had in this crime? Those of us trained to do so cannot with certainty.
B
REMINDER TONIGHT JULY 1ST 9PM EST CNN MCSTAY FAMILY SPECIAL
For full article : http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/justice/mcstay-murder-mystery/
For the latest on the McStay murders, watch “Buried Secrets: Who Murdered the McStay Family?” Tuesday, July 1, at 9 p.m. ET on CNN.
Victorville, California (CNN) — Four years ago, Patrick McStay lost everything he loved.
His son, Joseph, his daughter-in-law, Summer, and their two little boys — Gianni, 4, and Joseph Jr., 3 — vanished.
“From Day One, I just had this gut feeling that I was never going to see them again,” he said, swallowing tears. “I just knew. Something told me, I wasn’t going to see them again.”
The McStays disappeared from their home in suburban San Diego in February 2010.
Who murdered the McStay family?
There were no signs of a struggle. No apparent plan to flee.
Nearly four years later, the mother, father and two boys were found slain in the Mojave Desert — their bodies buried in shallow graves.
How did they get there? Who killed them?
How they got there and
Who killed them apparently
We are not gonna know
By watching cnn…
I pray for the day blink
Post (they got them)
Peace to patrick and sm
Family and all those
Broken hearted