Hannah Graham Body Located: Sources Say Tip Led To Her Recovery
Breaking News: The body of Hannah Elizabeth Graham has been recovered.
Press Conference involving multiple agencies to be held momentarily.
Thoughts and prayers are with Hannah, her family and friends this evening.
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CNN reported that the 2005 victim is coming back to the States. I hope she intends on giving a statement AND agreeing to being a witness. Hopefully, this will encourage other possible victims of JLM.
It was also mentioned that this victim (JLM has been arraigned for this assault, I believe) claimed she was driven to a woody spot, and assaulted. Thank GOD she got away…and how did she do it? I’m curious as to whether Hannah and Morgan were both driven to or close to the places where their remains were found.
How beneficial (or not) would it be for the State/Commonwealth to establish a pattern or M.O. to connect JLM to all 3? Is it more likely the location of their remains were a secondary crime scene?
Florida Grandmother says:
October 29, 2014 at 2:14 pm
erose says: October 26, 2014 at 9:27 am
I’ve also wondered about the possibility even darker sets of people in the Charlottesville area, especially after researching this link provided by an earlier commenter: http://66.199.228.237/boundary/hematomania/The_Nature_and_dynamics_of_sexual_homicide.pdf
Wondered about the possibility that some of the perpetrators and even those connected to high and influential sectors, could be part of a collaborative of trafficking, sadism, torture, etc. and some of the victims could have…been subjected so such as that. There are remote backwoods places, old defunct campgrounds that could serve as retreats for sick individuals to come (driven in limos) to engage in whatever proclivity tickles their diseased psyches.
Researching the term, I was appalled to read that some people are trying to mainstream various activities associated with ‘hematomania’ (that I call blood lust) as an almost innocent, harmless proclivity.
Leviticus and Acts 15 are very clear about the dangers of this kind of activity on the human psyche. Our minds are fragile and some acts and thoughts and experiences damage human mental balance and stability.
***********
Hi AFG, which activities are you referring to?
Since the question is how the female co-conspirator not
only avoided charges but stayed in school, graduated, &
so on, my follow-up is was she on a sport’s team?
@ATG. OT
When I grew up in TX, there were no female high school
sports teams, much less college. You could be a cheerleader or a majorette.
To make that, “putting out” for football players was expected.
My daughter has an entirely different world in high school
& college with athletics opportunities open. In some sports in my opinion
female teams excel over male teams. None of this would have been possible
without the Title IX civil rights act of 1972 affording females not
fully equal opportunity wrt athletics expenditures by taxpayer funded
public schools, but enough opportunities to share in
taxpayer funded sports. States have a long history of not
affording civil rights & equal opportunity, especially when it costs
money & resources, without the carrof and stick of Federal
money & Federal penalties.
Florida Grandmother says:
October 29, 2014 at 6:09 pm
Did a little more research and found that Chris Matthew’s DNA didn’t match the rape, but another man was found to be a match:
http://www.c-ville.com/UVA_rapist_gets_40_years/#.VFDE2Hl0ycx
Speaking of DNA and the family of Jesse Matthew – evidently not one of them (and he has a very large family and many near relatives) responded and gave DNA samples when law enforcement asked the black community to give samples after the connection between the DNA in the Harrington case and the Fairfax rape was discovered.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I had no idea that LE asked the entire black community in Charlottesville to provide DNA. Seems like LE would have narrowed down the sample before doing that.
The absolutely did not do that Grace- did not happen. I think AFG may be confusing the Matthew case with what was the search for Antonio Washington (named by one of his victims while working at the Harris Teeter). It was a black eye to Cville at the time.
http://jacksonville.com/apnews/stories/050304/D82B8E101.shtml
B
” Smith said he wanted two attorneys to help accommodate a speedy trial.”
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/31/jesse-matthew-fairfax-court-sex-assault-charges/18231607/
Judge is canny.
http://m.nbc12.com/nbc12/db_356962/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=aL7M5RBr
I like the comment Judge doesn’t plan to slow down his trial for the Charlottesville litigation. (the opposite of Portland judges’ approach in another thread, imo.)
Perhaps Judge did not address the psych exam because it would open the door for the gov’t to do the same (see DA comment below.), and Counsels need to see the gov’t evidence (is it really overwhelming?),& collaborate. He could very well be better off without an ngri plea if evidence is weak:
“It was a motion for the evaluation of sanity at the time of the offense. Whatever they feel is necessary, they’ll do and so will we,” said Fairfax Prosecutor Ray Morrogh.”
Got it, you do realize that is the plot of my favorite novel of all time, lol?
B
Rose says:
October 31, 2014 at 2:43 pm
~snip, in part> Imo it would be reasonable to believe that Camblos is afraid of JLM, & perhaps some elements of his family, & agreed to repr in Fairfax for that reason. He will be glad to get out of it on the grounds of internal conflict with the PD, even if that angle screwsJLM’s relationship with the PD.
I am glad you offered this, as I just couldn’t put my finger on what was up with Mr C. He was very peculiar. Seemed squished in the box there with LJ and very very nervous to me. On the other hand- LJ seemed on the ball. Too bad he wasn’t given the opportunity to talk, seemed he had much opinion in regards to how things should go down. He sure has a high pitched voice for such a large man.
Re: the following post:
In case anyone is interested, here is a video of the court hearing:
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/2014/10/31/jesse-matthew-hannah-graham-suspect-court-sex-assault-fairfax-co/18230807/
The link used to go directly to the raw feed. Now you have to scroll down the page to watch the raw feed (it’s still there).
Many thanks to ATG, Blink, Eloise regarding the “object” in question.
Perhaps too discreet, but I intended to allude to a Maglite being a convenient tool for the violent object of sexual penetration.
I have envisioned JLM engaged in destruction of a human body. However strong is a man or woman, a socio/psychopath’s testosterone-fueled rage of Jesse’s size, age, and former athleticism will prevail. I perceive Morgan’s body being damaged before and after dropping her off at Anchorage Farm. His disgust and rage probably led him to finish her with stomping and forcefully breaking limbs…i.e. bones.
Two personal experiences: I was a college freshman asked on an evening walk through the campus and around town. As it got time for me to go home, the persuaded walk took me to his football playing field. I was nearly raped on the 50-yard line. It was time to outsmart. I convinced him to return to his dorm room and run everyone out. I knew there would be people around, even if it was a bit farther back to my quarters. When I saw him on campus in public after that, he had an ugly smirk and a stare-down. I only told him to stay away from me and held strong, but frightened for several months after that.
Second story: my son was at a friend’s home where he and several guys were hanging out. LE came to the door investigating a nearby crime. A couple guys slipped out, my son gave a fake name (*why?!* a mother cries!)and another guy complied with the LE interview. When LE returned, they just wanted to check out the fake name given, but my smart boy dove into a closet to hide. When the police pulled him out, everyone else scattered, and the officer intentionally broke his humerus. The ER told me it had made them very angry. The 6’8,280lb. officer, or nearly anyone, only has to kneel on upper arm and pull up.
Stories told to support my understanding of brute strength, coupled with righteous anger or diabolical rage. Thanks to everyone for their work on this and all the worthy cases here.
Va Girl says:
October 30, 2014 at 12:16 pm
“It is also highly possible this type of offender can have cognitive disabilities that may allow him to be perceived as of lower learning capability or intelligence”
What you say is certainly true, but if Matthews had such a condition, yet worked in a hospital in the position he did, he had to have passed some fairly difficult courses. In anatomy especially. How can someone with cognitive disabilities manage such a thing?
Nope, he has no certifications. No license. He is what I believe used to be referred to as an orderly, but his soul job is to wheel a patient into the OR.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink is correct. But, you know what I find a bit unsettling about his hospital job? Think about what type of patients he is wheeling into and out of that OR. Sedated ones. Let’s just hope the RN is walking beside the gurney and helping with the transport.
I see Starbucks has already posted the Court video.
The best is towards the conclusion:
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/2014/10/31/jesse-matthew-hannah-graham-suspect-court-sex-assault-fairfax-co/18230807/
a bit at odds with written press.
For example, Judge clearly appoinds OD Lead Counsel, & reaffirms as well.
He merely tells them to coordinate on litigation tasks.
Other observations, Blink I believe VA will pick up tab for both Counsels as appointed.
Camblos seems hostile to Fairfax PD as coCounsel for reasons not apparent
wrt JLM.
Judge offers several reasons for Fairfax PD (and Offuce investigator) appointment, one of which us local
familiarity with investigative resources. (Not to mention the unstated knowledge of NoVA
jury pools.)
Camblos’ psych request was a substantive motion filed the morning of the
hearing! Judge has to explain that’s not the way business is done.
Imo that Motion’s timing was designed to unsettle and
irk the PD Office. Camblos had to swat to put JLM’s arm down after
the swearing in.
The Judge is A++++ for competent application of statute, law, & procedure.
Camblos imo is out of his element.
Apologize for being behind, You are spot on about Judge Smith, imo. Great command of his court, imo.
B
typos fix:
…appoints PD (Public Defender) as Lead …
blinks dumb as a fox comment, funny, I was thinking about how lj saw Hannah from what seems an obstructing distance,and went into hunt mode , he seemed to first try to blend in with a crowd behind her ,and then changed lanes , fast tracked and sidled up beside her. and then in galvenston,his head snapped, when his saw ‘Karen’,slammed on brakes .how far did he end up parking from her?i thinking fox hunter,The Hunt , carlton William Arnold, how’d he get that name?and he’ was deemed mentaly disabled?, first cousins?benedict Arnold, and his red hunt coat, was from new haven ,conn. & rhode island ,any desendants,have slaves? slaves were given the owners name or a spelling variation to discern relation.this case is full of symbolism , Hannah graham,(anagram) was british grew up in Fairfax.i studied photography and my favorite was the serial ,or some called it a series ,a group of at least 3 photos sharing or suggesting some,v 5ecommonality. when I think of serial that’s my definition that comes to mind. I love that dr. Harrington shared his poetry.
blinks dumb as a fox comment, funny, I was thinking about how lj saw Hannah from what seems an obstructing distance,and went into hunt mode , he seemed to first try to blend in with a crowd behind her ,and then changed lanes , fast tracked and sidled up beside her. and then in galvenston,his head snapped, when his saw ‘Karen’,slammed on brakes .how far did he end up parking from her?i thinking fox hunter,The Hunt , carlton William Arnold, how’d he get that name?and he’ was deemed mentaly disabled?, first cousins?benedict Arnold, and his red hunt coat, was from new haven ,conn. & rhode island ,any desendants,have slaves? slaves were given the owners name or a spelling variation to discern relation.this case is full of symbolism , Hannah graham,(anagram) was british grew up in Fairfax.i studied photography and my favorite was the serial ,or some called it a series ,a group of at least 3 photos suggesting a common theme. when I think of serial that’s my definition that comes to mind.he is serial to me. I love that dr. Harrington shared his poetry.
re link above, repeating:
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/2014/10/31/jesse-matthew-hannah-graham-suspect-court-sex-assault-fairfax-co/18230807/
1st video arrow is a TV soundbite,with excerpts
2nd video arrow is the entirety of hearing.
Blink in the beginning, the Judge established Camblos had
NOT been retained in the Fairfax case. So Judge
Said he should not intercede
unless appointed (which eventually occurred). Imo this was
related to the payment thing. Judge appointed both PD & Camblos. Camblos was not
retained.
My sense is he is covered under privilege extention or as nexus to his representation in that instant matter.
However, I agree with you if the ordered appointees to the R.G. case goes South. Judging by the words Camblos mouthed, which I believe were “I can’t do it”, there is that chance. It does appear that Camblos will be paid as to “achieve the ends of justice” by the indigent fund, but that will likely be highly subject to scrutiny because of the process and procedure of set and fixed billing, but because he is second chair.
That said- having had 15 uninterrupted minutes to watch the entire segment for the first time, I am struck that he called Hannah Graham “the missing , the Graham girl who IS missing.” not
was missing
and interjected that he has developed a good relationship with him in the Harrington case. He offered that up- so he told Judge Smith he was retained in the Graham cases and intimated he was in Harrington (there are no charges pending). Camblos specifically mentioned the cases were connected by their notoriety. Methinks Mr. Camblos’s public statement regarding the announcement of Hannah Graham’s death seems disingenuous considering he just referred to her as the missing Graham girl. Methinks Mr. Camblos is looking for his twilight case.
B
Blink:
OMG please do not let me think you are a fugue pumper.
_____________________________________________
Lol. I don’t know why I said that. Thanks for straightening me out before the whole group died laughing.
Thanks for being a good sport about it Indahlia-
B
@ Leslie. These lores get passed down by word of mouth. I have a theory that these lores could be even more important than book learning to some individuals. You would be surprised what the verbal history passed down can tell about a family, and as I see this, the grudge which may have been passed down about land which is felt to have been unfairly lost or taken may have gained new life when joined with the lost football dreams grudge and the grudge against the gender and race which is seen to have “caused” the lost football dreams by a rape accusation. It is my hypothesis, and certainly the crime here does not rely solely on any smoldering generations old grudge, if there is one in this case.
@ eRose and Eloise, thanks and bravo for the land research!. If I am looking at my mapquest correctly, then, Colle Farm, now Jefferson Vineyards is southeast of Charlottesville, while the other properties which I think are the bone of contention are lying west. Correct me if I am wrong, or seeing this wrong. So Colle did not become AF or Shack Mountain, or Riverview which became Ivy Preserve. Still that doesn’t settle in my mind some connection between George Carr, owner of Colle, the associate of TJ who also settled parts of TJ’s estate and the Hugh Carr former slave.
So, I would like to know about the alias as “why George Carr.” I get the “Carr,” as in Hugh Carr, but I am at a loss to get the “George.” Are George and Hugh related, or somehow otherwise connected through the historic slavery connection?
Regarding the new forensic link. Can a stun gun, which I understand can be as small as a lipstick or a cell phone, leave a mark on a tee shirt? If LE found a stun gun in JM’s apartment, perhaps this is now linked to marks on the t shirt of Morgan? As well as his dna which matches FF. My reading tells me that the “best” place to apply a stun gun is “upper shoulder, under ribs, and upper hip.” These compact things are not expensive and would certainly explain the “holding her up and assisting with walking” which JM was doing in Hannah’s case. It would also explain the “arms around behavior,” and the “staggering” which is my paraphrase.
At this point I have got to comment that these bar owners have got to be made much more responsible for what is going on inside and around their establishments in Virginia, especially College towns. The previous charade in Virginia has been to make the teens the criminals for buying beer, and that’s been the main focus of the criminal enforcement, and to practically ignore enforcement inside the bars, based on my observations. All of this situation is the exact reason why the State is supposed to be regulating ABC liquor licenses as fostering an environment where inhibitions can get loosened of criminal conduct, and if people are continuing to look the other way at such conduct going on around these establishments, whether drugs, stun gun, or too much alcohol was used to disable, then these establishments are a danger to the public. Clearly things must change now.
susan- there are numerous types of stun guns or “like” weapons available. Some require a close proximity to the target, other’s ( standard issue to LE) do not, but one has to be close enough for the leads to hit the target in motion. That particular weapon also has a cpu which will record when it is “fired”. Typically, unless the charge would come into contact with some sort of garment or garment treatment that would react to an electrical charge- it would not leave an identifiable defect in a garment.
The ACB debacle, which I remember well- and if iirc said if that were my child I would have noticed those idiots in a hot minute ( I believe they settled a substantial suit and should have) is absolutely an example of an abuse of power in an agency with almost no oversight.
B
@ Rose. More like a legacy free pass rather than a team. IMO.
Hi GraceitheHills,
Yes, I’m sure Blink is right. Never considered your thought of him wheeling sedated patients around. Seems he is a pro (and I hate to use that word) at finding a way to be around people who are compromised in one way or another. Agreed….unsettling.
Hi Leslie,
My opinion regarding interest in Matthews genealogy may be different than others, so I’ll give an example. My husband’s family has been in Virginia (Rockbridge, Radford, Pulaski areas) since the mid 1700′s. His great-grandfather moved here to Pulaski in the 1920s and his grandfather, father, and he grew up here. Because it’s not a populated area (mostly farm land) everyone knows everyone and most folks are familiar with who owns what for miles and miles around. Many farmers help one another, spend time on each others farms helping out, and farm hands often work many farms over the course of the various seasons.
My husband is familiar with literally thousands of acres of land around here because of all the family ties and life long friends….friends and people who’s families grew up with and knew his grandparents, father, etc. He is familiar also with pretty much every back road for miles around.
All that said to get to my point. If Matthews ties go back that far, he is likely just as intimately familiar with a large portion of the areas where he grew up. So it’s no surprise he was comfortable using it as his dumping ground. He knew exactly where he was, who would or wouldn’t be around, back ways into and out of properties. Maybe interest in his genealogy isn’t so much the factor, but the deep level on which he must be familiar with everything around that area.
Creeps me out to think how many more victims are laying undiscovered…..
Ms Blink, You are right – I did conflate the two cases – the Charlottesville rapist Nathan Antonio Washington (who is rumored to be some sort of uncle to Jesse Matthew) and Jesse Matthew re: the request for DNA from the African American community.
It might have been seemed to some like a racially motivated request, but LE must have been desperate after the rapist out-witted them for so long. Likely, the black community took offense, because their relationships with whites and law enforcement didn’t support or inspire trust, openness and cooperation.
However, if anyone in JLM’s family had submitted a sample, would the sample have caused an alert, due to shared profile characteristics with the Fairfax perpetrator? Would it have been enough for a warrant to get DNA from their whole family?
I am confused as to why JLM’s family would have submitted a DNA sample for any reason?
B
Blink, to your comments about the stun gun device and the idea of it coming in contact with a garment, creating evidence. Now I am encouraged that the device might have a cpu record, so I can hope for some karma in that regard being used to enforce justice for Morgan, Hannah, and the others. The thought just occurred to me though, about the Metallica Tee shirt, would it possibly have been constructed of some “metallic threads” or fabric, which might have caused a reaction in this garment from an electrical shock such as from a stun gun? I’ve read that the stun gun has two prongs where the current goes through. So does anyone know if this tee shirt had any metallic threads or fabric which would indeed give a good “shock” of karma to the perp?
Hannah’s walking being held up by this individual demands some answers. This is a matter of public safety in the case that other miscreants are running loose with the same agenda and tactics.
I need to see some real karma here, working in the right direction. I hope and pray that is coming soon.
Looking at the Metallica T shirt store, a lot of these shirts, if not all, look like they have some metallic embossing or fabric in the design. I bet something melted on that t shirt of Morgan’s.
On reflection, I see why Camblis projected some hostility as the hearing wore on,
and the Judge directly “taught” him in a no nonsense fashion.
Imo Camblos was taken aback because Judge’s 1 direct question of him
was
Have you been retained by Mathews?
And to get a paid appointment, Camblos was forced to say No.
Judge goes on to admonish him not to “intercede” then.
Camblos was plainly in jeopardy
because the PD had never spoken to this prospective
appointee, therefore reasonably speaking JM had never had benefit of
counsel in the Fairfax case.
Camblos was on thin ice ethically and it is all on video,
because without gaving been retained he apparently discussed the details of Fairfax
with JLM, and if he was not appointed it was not privileged, he prepared a
substantive motion opening his client to a govt psych exam, and he had probably
counseled JLM as to his plea if he were asked to plead. Judge was exposing
these issues up front & to his peers across VA.
Article on a certain new polyester fabric neutralizing a certain type of stun gun—http://news.cnet.com/Polyester-fabric-neutralizes-stun-gun-jolt/2100-1008_3-6057801.html
Thinking about these rock band T shirts with the plastic looking emblems and embossments, I do think this might provide an effective shield and not conduct stun gun electricity, but it seems that the plastic logo might melt in protecting the body from the electricity, while it absorbs the shock–especially if the logo is plastic and reflective. In the Pantera T shirt case. This might be evidence?
This is just an idea of connection between the search of JLM’s apartment, and the “new forensic link” which was recently announced connected to the T shirt. Also this idea connects in the incapacitated way that Hannah was seen to be walking away from that bar which is gross negligence for someone not to have intervened and called 911. But to have left her with this individual who had all night been observed to be acting erratically is absolutely inexcusable for the door person or door hostess at this bar. We also know that Hannah had on a crop top, which would seem to be of particular interest to a perp with a stun gun, based on lack of fabric for this weapon to be effective. I am not tying this comment in to the general discussion of attire as attracting creeps, or in any way that “she asked for it.” She did not ask for it. Also we have the “arms around” commentary, which begs the question of stun gun, secretly being administered.
All points lead to Rome. Or to the MO in question.
I still have big questions about the stealth and quickness which JLM approached Hannah on the mall, the other creepy individual who was also in pursuit ducking into the dark doorways, as well as this possible MO which might–???? include a stun gun in the multiple cases we know about????
It seems like we are missing a key piece of fact in what we already know, and that might be the stun gun, as Blink has already put up for consideration. I think Blink is correct, as usual.
I missed the post that said Hannah was a nursing student. wow this is c0ming full circle.and she just wanted to help people too. did anyone else notice ,in the john henry agee , john henry,seriously , make it stop.the call to le to respond to a confrontation at a bar between agee and …, get ready… james Herndon…. the hippy?? …. I am . relocating the link
AGEE v. COMMONWEALTH – FindLaw – Findlaw: Cases and Codes
caselaw.findlaw.com › Virginia › VA Ct. App.
John Henry Agee, appellant, … 2000, Agee was involved in several verbal exchanges with James Herndon on Cherry Street in Charlottesville.
Not the happy hippy?
B
Blink
I think you were referring in your answer Susan about the ABC agents(thugs) who attacked the girls in the grocery parking lot at C’ville. The lawsuit was for forty million. I did not know it was settled out of court.
It is too bad that the Virginia Attorney General did not demand a complete re-organization of that agency.
I could not find an article depicting the settlement, but it settled according to my legal database access in August. Interestingly, and in my opinion BS, part of the settlement agreement was for the plaintiff not to release the VSP investigation file into the incident.
http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/emails-shed-light-on-abc-case-response/article_db138588-e9d5-11e2-878e-001a4bcf6878.html
This poor girl was terrified. If that was my child, the settlement agreement would have included sanctions against the officers and a public statement of apology with announced revisions for proper training.
past:
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/state-regional/parts-of-u-va-student-s-million-lawsuit-proceed/article_c39b68d6-f662-11e3-8fa0-0017a43b2370.html
B
Susan
In regards to the stun guns for protection. They are available in a variety of configurations and types. The Taser type gun is often used by law enforcement. And as Blink mentioned in her reply to you, they have an identity mechanism that is a small computer on a chip. They shoot some sort of sharp projectile using CO2 or some other gas like a pellet gun or a BB gun. They also have a back-up contact system in the event the fired probes miss the target.
Some of the newer designs for LE shoot a conductive liquid like a water pistol. Saturated brine or salt water is usually the medium with other chemicals sometimes in the solution.
If one searches Amazon for a stun gun there are many styles that are battery powered. A stun gun can be built into a flashlight that looks and works like one. Tactical flashlights have single or multiple LEDs that will produce up to 500 Lumins. Plenty of light to temporally blind a person. These lights are often built with a stun circuit that puts out a very high voltage and current in the low milliamps. Think of a water line where the volume of water equals the amount of current and the water pressure is relative to electrical voltage.
Stun guns of these types are designed to require contact with a conductive surface to complete the circuit and deliver the stopping power to a human. Our skin is such a surface.
Humans have control systems just like robots. The human system is both low voltage electricity and chemicals. The nerves of the body carry both action and feedback signals. The origin and destination of those signals are chemical compounds that create actions in the muscle groups.
People that have a stroke while standing have the electro-chemical control system momentarily disrupted and they fall to the floor or ground. This is the desired result of introducing an out of bounds electrical source to the body via a stun gun. Think of it as white noise or static noise often picked up on a car radio tuned to an AM station. The noise prevents the radio electronics from performing as it normally does.
nice Summit:
http://www.nbc29.com/story/27178977/summit-addresses-combating-sexual-violence-on-college-campuses
Iirc Terry has 6 kids. some college age.
Without looking it up, I assume his sponsoring AG Herring is a
colleague Dem. All Terry-Herring has to do is establish a Work Advisory group
to include say Mark’s wife Lisa Colle, & Russ’ wife Norma (Knock Out Abuse)
and put some VA college student reps on the Work Group, along with a College Pres &
Dean or two, a few piwerful Board of Visitors reps, a couple of
lical LEA leaders, & reporting back
imo to the Legislature as well as the Gov, come to think of it.
And in fact the Summit or
Legislative Work Group recs should
go to Boards of Visitors, fyi.
And I’d darn sure put Bobbie
Kilburg on any Work Group issuing recs.
So reasoning this out, if the Gov chats them up,
imo the Grahams should understand they may be
co-opted & used politically by either party, sadly.
Their best advisors would be Harringtons.
ATG—That is exactly what I have been thinking. I’ve also wondered what it was that caused JLM to “lock” on to Hannah with such immediate focus on that mall—which is clear from the video tape. It looked to be a set up. Now I do not want to start up the clothing discussion again, because I do not feel that Hannah was dressed inappropriately for the time and place of a college setting. She was not asking for it from any perp. However in this particular situation of a perp who might have been using a stun gun, the bare midriff may have been something that he alone for his own perversions saw as a particular vulnerability. When one connects the dots on the “arms around the waist”, and then the “needing help walking”, I would say this picture and the particular tactics used are starting to come into focus.
Again I want to express my utter disappointment with the ABC regulators and agents and the management oversight of this bar scene which allowed this kind of danger and reprehensible act to go on in plain view of its front door. This kind of predation is exactly what effective ABC regulation is supposed to be on guard to ensure does not happen. If the ABC would get some common sense and stiffen their spine to confront the bars, instead of the silly chasing after the college kids buying water to make their lives miserable and charge them with felonies for buying water, perhaps this kind of thing could be shut down for good. It has got to be shut down.
I do not think the bar scene in this case was effectively controlling their patron to allow this kind of behavior which was by all reports an ongoing problem. when the girls in the bar are feeling threatened and having to confront this person, that would have been the time for bar staff to send Mr. Matthew packing for a year ban from this particular bar. Not to do so was negligent. Also if this bar had done its job and banned JLM that night for his offensive behavior, there would have been a record of this, and likely this incident would not have occurred.
@Rose—
Yes there is a lot of talk going on about correcting sexual assault violence on College Campuses in Virginia. However this problem is interwoven with the entire fabric of the community, as one can plainly see in this case. It will be hard to correct this problem without also correcting how UVa had a now suspected serial murderer and sexual pervert sadist wheeling vulnerable, possibly sedated patients around its hospital halls. A full investigation is demanded. As well, the insight from this case as regards how the total unfair and hideous amount of free passes this individual obtained from the criminal justice system were allowed to be doled out for so long, from speeding, driving on suspended, improper equipment, warrants in debt from his own employer UVa hospital, reduced assault and grand larceny which we don’t know if he ever cleared up, or stuck the taxpayers with the hospital bill for Wilkes split lip, other free passes given out by two Colleges which no doubt installed this individual on their premises with a full ride on fees and expenses……….
Now that we know just how accommodating the system is able to be, I would bet that there are some students treated harshly by this system who might have some complaints of their own. I know I would, if I had been arrested for buying bottled water, brought up on felony charges, and forced to spend time in jail for such utter nonsense. Investigation is demanded.
Then we’ve got the willful blindness of the ABC in enforcing safety in and around these bars. This is just after the recent house cleaning at ABC in the Daly case. Sheesh.
This is not just a College issue, as shown in this case. We’ve got an employer who did not look too hard after the safety of hospital patients, as well as the criminal justice system which pushes one standard for some, another harsh standard for others. And ABC. Questions need to be answered by the individuals pulling the strings.
“I am confused as to why JLM’s family would have submitted a DNA sample for any reason? B”
When the African American community was asked to submit DNA samples by Law Enforcement in order to track down the Charlottesville rapist – who has been said to be an uncle of JM by more than one commenter.
If a relative of both men had submitted DNA, could it have caused alarm bells to ring for all three cases – MH, Fairfax rape and the Charlottesville rape case?
I am still not following your question FL G- There are no commenters here making that allegation about Washington because it is not accurate. Let me guess- WS?
Are you suggesting that members of the Carr Matthew family submitted samples?
In a situation (at the time) where any person submitted a voluntary DNA sample against a known but as yet un-named offender it is still subject to warrant and chain of custody process and procedures according to the lab standard, and potentially the DB protocol wherever the suspect sample “lived”.
It is my strong suggestion that at the time, DNA samples that were requested and received were largely used as a tactic to eliminate the pool of persons willing to give them- an investigative tactic. It is fairly static LE 101 like polygraphs. LE is concerned about folks unwilling to do either- even if that is really short sighted as it is most of the time.
If you are asking about applying familial DNA- there has to be probable cause, nobody matched Matthew DNA until post arrest.
B
ATG wrote: “Stun guns of these types are designed to require contact with a conductive surface to complete the circuit and deliver the stopping power to a human. Our skin is such a surface.”
Immediate thought – Hannah Graham’s bare midriff and back was an inviting target for a stun gun.
Fairfax victim was -driven- to a wooded area? or cnu victim ? in the early days of morgans disappearance , I was on charlottesv. craigslist,browsing around.and I posted that in the Rants section,was an ongoing argument, between a student ,demanding muggings and assaults STOP in the Corner area. someone answered him and engaged in taunting & threatening thug mode.i posted here that I didn’t know if the responder was actually a mugging thug from the corner ,but the threats against students, whether real or not ,shouildve been investigated as to who that responder was . the threats were like .we’re not gonna stop .we got more,wait til you see what we have in store for you” I was like hello homeland security .the posts disappear after a couple of months ,but I wonder how long craiglist is required to store them ,it was the month of sept.2009 I thought this is a jokster, not a real criminal ,but still. carlton William Arnold (carlton,plantation?),seems crazy enough to boast on craigslist.
Thanks for the links B. I couldn’t agree more with your statement about the settlement. It is too bad that some quality fathers were not in parking lot at the time of the assault for witness and assistance to the girls.
They would not have liked my response had I been there.
The ABC agents story of their behavior is pure BS.
I should say that per the filings in the docket that ACB used the opportunity to retrain and re-standardize across the board, however— in my view- at least 2 of those agents should have been fired.
Suit settled for $212,500
B
FLG
Hannah’s neck and shoulders were uncovered as well. Those are much better targets since they are closer to the control box (the lower brain area).
However, JM had plenty of opportunity to put something in her drink and wait for it to take effect. I also am thinking that Hannah may have attended a class at the hospital and recognized JM as an employee which may have disarmed her “skeeve meter”.
There is a new chemical that is being used for disablement since “roofies” now are required to have a color agent that will show up. I need to do some research on what it is and how one obtains it.
susan, the white guy at the mall ,imo,seems to be in sync ,with lj,he ducks into the doorway when he sees jesse,,it seems . I agree with other posters who say that he is too far ahead of Hannah to duck into the doorway ,anticipating her advance.but without seeing that end of the mall ,where she enters the frame ,its hard to tell for sure .
Having owned property in cville and here in oa….in predominately aa communities…and truly meaning NO racial disrespect….it is more often than not true that a black individual will say about almost anyone they know….friend neighbor coworker…thats my uncle or thats my cousin….happens ALL the time…
rnough that i have noticed it…..just a sayin’ i lived out in north garden…i could think of dozens and dozens of buzzard ridden nooks to dump a body…no grudge…just looking arpund….its almost desolate in southern albemarle….old lynchburg rd is however fairly well travelled…its really a main rd….the rds are very limited out there…jlm is toi stupid to care about all this county history….dont think they sat down over bisquits and ham and talked about century old grudges….but i am surmising only
Did I miss something? Why all the talk about stun guns? IMO JM likes to be hands on. He wants to hurt these women with his own hands so he can feel them struggle and look at the terror in their eyes. He wants to strangle them so he can feel them take their last breath. He wants to be in control and know their life is in his hands. Sick.
He was a very good wrestler in high school and knew how to submit people in holds. Knows how to perform an armbar in which he could snap someones forearm in two easily. With ease, he can overtake a woman and most men even. No need for a stun gun (just a vulnerable woman who is alone- perhaps a drunk one or drugged/roofied one) but that’s JMO.
Re: DNA matches, I thought it was like a fingerprint…and if a sample was entered into a system, it will ‘match’ automatically with any other crime paired with that person’s DNA sample.
I thought that is what happened when JM’s DNA entered the system – I thought it caused a ding, ding, ding alarm to go off and up came the Harrington and Fairfax cases.
Are you saying they had to intentionally order a comparison with the DNA on file in the Harrington/Fairfax cases and a warrant is required to do so?
FL G- most respectfully, I feel like either you or I are not distilling your question appropriately so I hesitate to answer. Please don’t take offense, DNA as physical evidence is an area of precision and protocol that is not subject to an obtuse scenario. I can answer specific circumstances that apply
B
@ATG. The State Atty Gen in question, until Nov 2013, who did not
reorganize ABC Agency, was a Republican who when he
was not running for Gov was counting his Star Scientific stock shares, relaxing at Jonnie’s
beachhouse, or prosecuting the Gov’s chef. Interestingly, Judge Hudson on the civil case
http://m.timesdispatch.com/news/state-regional/parts-of-million-lawsuit-against-abc-to-proceed/article_c39b68d6-f662-11e3-8fa0-0017a43b2370.html?mode=jqm
was a Republican famously law & order, go for the jugular
Comminwealth attorney for Arlington County in the 80s. Nice he let some civil suit allegations stand &
coached her attorneys how to redraft.
Personally, I thought he was great and deserved the Federal bench.
Hudson’s actions induced the settlement imo.
GraceitheHills says: October 31, 2014 at 9:19 pm asks which activities I was referring to re: hematomania. Answer: Drinking blood is forbidden in Acts and Leviticus. This was part of pagan worship – and according to Google, is happening in some groups today.
@Scout. The question is how JLM got her off her feet entirely. Iirc each leg had a break.
Imo a swift kick to each leg by Behemoth woukd have sufficed, hard as that is to
think of. Seeing the trouble he had coordinating his hand twice in the
hearing, idk but what planned stun gun use is beyond him.
Blink – orry I can’t explain my question any better. Thanks for trying to answer. I have read a lot of comments on a number of blogs Conservative Tree House to Facebook, WS, your Monkeys blog and others since Hannah Graham’s disappearance. This is the first time I’ve ever followed a case.
No worries FL G, let me take this opportunity to share that 1. I encourage your advocacy. 2. scaredmonkeys forum is under the moderation of the queen of true crime moderation, imo, klaasend, and is my sister blog, but I do not moderate there or control it’s content. 3. Be very wary of accepting information as fact- and that includes my work.
B
@Blink. It would have been very hard to fire them (imo Unionized)
when there were no policies or procedures in place at that time regulating dress code, to move out of the way of a vehicle, to have a uniform present, to consult with DA on operations as there are now. Their response would be they
were compliant with Agency pol & procedures and following the
orders and operational plan of their Supervisor.
am I missing posts ,Fairfax v . was driven & whose legs were broken? and whose familia dna matched after an arrest?his dads? or other relatives . I saw a Latasha nicloe matthew arrest record for ala. and his attorney thinks Hannah is still missing? weird. gil held morgans skull in her hands? hannahs skull was reportedly sent to a lab, while the rest of her stayed behind? and it was an unusually long time to positive i’d. they weren’t decapped –cass.m. were they? . campios wants a twilight case? what ‘the twilight zone’?