Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: Caylees Autopsy Revelations Part I
Orlando, FL– Under heavy objection last Friday afternoon, Judge Stan Strickland denied the motion on behalf of George and Cindy Anthony to seal Caylee Marie Anthonys autopsy until their daughter Caseys capital murder trial in their granddaughters death. Late Friday afternoon, the Findings of Dr. Jan Garavaglia, Chief Medical Examiner of Orange County were released. In Part I, we explore a few of the notable findings, In Development for Part II, Blinkoncrime will be is creating an interactive 3D Model, incorporating the evidence recovery field, bone disbursement pattern, and anatomical example of the duct tape placement.
The Laundry Bag
Although the report contains a significant amount of anthropologic and forensic data, it does not contain photos or X-Rays, pursuant to the Earnhardt exclusion under Florida Law. Blinkoncrime.com will attempt to offer some observations and in some cases, correct some erroneous information that is being reported in the msm. For starters, the laundry bag picture being circulated, it is incorrect, the image to the left is the correct bag, note the dimensions are exact. The top of this bag does not cinch.
The Duct Tape
I have seen rampant speculation on the duct tape beginning around 15 minutes following the release of the report. 
There are many who believe that Casey Anthony killed her child by wrapping her nose and mouth with duct tape. Allow me to point out the report actually reflects the antithesis of this theory. First, there IS NO TAPE ON THE POSTERIOR of her skull. The only posterior placement of the tape mentioned is still located on the mandible, or face. The tape, which was actually small strips of grey cloth-based, delaminating tape is applied on top of itself, not really feasible with a live toddler. Given the findings that Caylee’s mandible stayed in almost true anatomical position, although slightly posterior and that the hair that was attached to the tape extended from the back of her head and over her head and face, it is likely Caylee was laying on her back when the tape was applied. Henkel makes 2 kinds of duct tape, one is more Industrial grade of adhesive “hot set” over cloth designed for waterproof and outdoor projects. It has not yet been disclosed which formulation was used.
The O Sign
A contributing poster at blinkoncrime gave me something to think about that had not occurred to me. I am on record stating I do believe that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter, and that she will end up pointing the finger at one or both of her parents as a defense strategy.
However, the duct tape never really fit for me. I have always believed it to be a post mortem tactic to stage a kidnapping. I do believe I may have been wrong. Very well known to medical and critical care professionals, there is something called an O effect; occurring at very near death, or shortly following death and before rigormortis sets in.
Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________
This makes sense to me. The tape is applied in small strips across the nose and mouth areas, catching her hair in the face over the Coronal plane region. One interpretation that may be drawn is that Caylee was lying on her back, upon seeing what Casey had done to her child as evidenced by the relaxed mandible; she attempted to “fix her”. As if covering up the evidence of death on her baby would change things, complete with a heart sticker. No sooner did I arrive at this conclusion on Saturday, did I see Dr.Michael Baden appear on Geraldo Live on Sunday evening bringing up the mortuary kit issue. I am not saying this idea originated here, not that it would be the first time, but it at least tells me there is corroboration within the forensic Medical community as to the premise. The FBI report on the duct tape has not been released. One thing is certain, what I have been stating all along about Casey’s prints being on the duct tape seems foreboding. With multiple strips of tape, chances are there are several. The defense has had this report for months, is this why Casey Anthony retained Todd Macaluso?
Swim Diaper?
There are several remnants recovered that are described as a diaper or pull ip item. However, there are a few that appear to be strictly synthetic. When I read the report, my immediate reaction based on some of the coloring was that it was a “swimmie”, or disposable swim diaper. After mapping out the dimensions and a closer look, I believe it is actually referring to remnants of both a pull up, a reusable swim diaper, or swim floation/assistance device or both, as pictured here:
Paper Towels
Simply stated there is decomposition fluid on paper towels in the plastic garbage bag found in her trunk that came from Tony Lazzarros apartment.
In my opinion, Casey ripped the bag Caylees remains were in when she moved her body into or out of the trunk to her final resting place in the woods off Suburban. The stain in the trunk, emitting the ungodly stench, was the target of the paper towels after Casey returned to TonE’s apartment. She brought the paper towels and garbage bag out with her in an attempt to clean it up and realized almost immediately it was an excerise in futility. Immediately following are her comments to Amy about George Anthony borrowing her car, and the infamous squirrel stowaway story.
Her Clothes
In contrast to only a stitching remnant with a manufactures tag left of her shirt, Caylees shorts were found nearly 2 ft ft away from the laundry bag, in relatively good condition. Based on the reports findings of trunk and femural animal activity and the corresponding recovery area, I am of the opinion that it is not possible that Caylee was wearing those shorts when she was dumped in the woods. Frankly, given the fact that the actual color stripe pattern was discernable versus the condition of the other items, I am suspect Casey was in those woods more than once. How do you get only the collar of a shirt remaining and her shorts completely intact with no noted damage? Lastly, Caylees shoes if she were wearing any, were not recovered.
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ProvokingPoirot, bet there’s a lot that Tony has to offer in his observations with Casey. I had one of those ‘wake up’ moments during the Tony/Lee undercover chat, but I haven’t found the spot again to relisten.
I wonder what else Tony was ‘wired’ for– I think there is something with Casey as she wanted so much to talk to him early on. I bet that there was a set up for that discussion too, if Casey made contact. Tony couldn’t contact her of course, as he would be acting as an agent for LE, but if Casey did it on her own, I bet LE was ready and waiting. (not sure yet if this was discussed in the Tony Lee ‘chat’– think so, but I must confirm before mentioning it for sure).
#1672 silverspnr Sorry I didn’t mean to give the yates children numbers, I meant noah,jonh,paul,luke and mary yates all beautiful children murdered by mom and she uses the WWJD defense. I am certain you understand my fears andd thanks again for making me feel better about getting the trial moved.
#1686 Carolyn S from Maryland-I also, remember George mentioning another item being in the trunk along with the gas cans. I was remembering the item being something similiar to a plastic rubbermaid tote (like something you might store blankets in underneath your bed). I will help you find the info.
Another thing, I haven’ t found kw on the wl, here is a guy who by my count went to the HOLT 3 times (once with shovel in hand) searching for caylee (like he had a map drawn). Rk and kkiomarie are on the list also EX OFFICER CAIN. Baez should leave good people like tim miller alone. Even if he wins, me thinks he loses.
#1639 macenziesmom. NANNY=casey. In the UK NANNY=grandmother. I refer to my child’s babysitter as rita my babysitter. Good point.
The States Attorney is requesting that George and Cindy appear at a hearing Friday…….
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-bk-casey-anthony-case-hearing-072309,0,3645760.story
It was during his October 16 OCSO Interview (pages 11 and 12) that Tony described waking up one morning and seeing Casey crying as she watched the video clip of Caylee at the nursing home on Father’s Day. Tony could not remember the exact date, but he said, “I know it was before I left for New York.” He left for New York on June 30, so the “videotape” incident happened between June 16 and June 29.
It was during his July 22 OCSO Interview (pages 3 and 4) that Tony described several occasions when Casey woke up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat because of nightmares. He said those episodes happened two-to-four times, and he was sure they occurred after he had returned from New York, so the night sweats/nightmare episodes happened between July 5 and July 14.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-bk-casey-anthony-case-hearing-072309,0,3645760.story
New story…..just incase no one has seen this yet.
During a hearing on January 30, 2009 to argue a handful of motions not related to trial venue, Baez informed Judge Strickland of his intention to file for a change of venue. Strickland said any discussion of a change of venue was premature at that point because the trial was so far away. Prosecutor Linda Drane Burdick had argued that the trial would not begin until the end of the year at the earliest and possibly not until 2010 and that the media attention would have fallen off by the time the trial began so a change of venue would not be necessary.
Baez filed for a change of venue on May 4, 2009 asking Judge Strickland to move the trial to Miami. In the motion, Baez referenced a study conducted by broadcast monitoring service Cision stating that 14,235 stories mentioning the Caylee Anthony case had aired between July 15, 2008 and November 18, 2008. Of those stories, Cision stated that 46.3% had aired in the Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne media market whereas only 3% had aired in the Miami-Fort Lauderdale media market.
Florida defense lawyers asked to comment on Baez’s motion for a change of venue said it was likely Judge Strickland would wait until they had a firm trial date and would then spend a couple of days screening potential jurors in Orlando to test the waters relative to juror case knowledge and prejudice. If, after a few days of voir dire, Strickland determined that Casey’s right to a fair trial would likely be compromised if the trial were held in Orlando, then he would grant a change of venue.
In the death penalty cases of Susan Smith and Scott Peterson, the decisions by the respective defense attorneys to ask for a change of venue were based more on public opinion polling in various communities of attitudes toward the defendant than on comparative media market saturation.
Susan Smith (who confessed to the horrific crime of drowning her two small sons by pushing her car into a lake while the boys were inside and strapped to their carseats) was so hated at the time of her arrest that virtually everyone in her home county wanted her put to death. However, in the nine months between her arrest and trial, a number of news stories were published that portrayed her in a sympathetic light. Her biological father had committed suicide when Susan was six years old. Her stepfather began sexually abusing her when she was around 13 or 14 (Susan had reported the abuse to school authorities and her stepfather admitted to the abuse on the stand during the penalty phase of the trial). She had a history of depression with suicide attempts at ages 11 and 17 (she was hospitalized for the second attempt).
Susan’s defense attorney had been polling the community’s attitude toward Susan and found that by the time her trial was scheduled to begin, more people believed she was mentally ill than believed she was evil, so the attorney did not file for a change of venue. Susan’s hometown jury rejected the death penalty and gave her life without parole despite the pleas of the prosecutors and the father of the little boys to put her to death.
Laci Peterson was reported missing in December 2002. Scott Peterson (who claimed innocence) was arrested for murder in April 2003 after the bodies of Laci and Connor washed ashore. Geragos filed for a change of venue in December 2003 claiming the intense media coverage and lynch-mob atmosphere in Peterson’s hometown Stanislaus County (Modesto) would prevent Peterson from getting a fair trial there. Prosecutors argued that the media attention on the case was on a national level and so saturated throughout California that moving the trial out of Stanislaus County would be pointless. A community survey in Stanislaus County had revealed that 61% of potential jurors had not made up their minds about the case and 39% believed Peterson was guilty (apparently no one had a firm belief in Peterson’s innocence). Both defense and prosecution allegedly used this survey finding in their arguments.
However, Geragos’s argument that Scott was so reviled in his hometown of Modesto that he couldn’t get a fair trial in Stanislaus County won over the judge, who issued an order in January 2004 to move the trial to nearby San Mateo County (Geragos had asked for a change to Los Angeles County, so this was a partial victory for him). On March 4, 2004 jurors in San Mateo County began filling out screening questionnaires. On May 4, 2008, Geragos filed for another change of venue (to Los Angeles County) claiming that “More than 96 percent of potential jurors stated they have either read, seen, or heard something about the case. And over 56 percent indicated they had formed preliminary opinions about it.” His request for another change of venue was denied, and on May 27, 2004, jury selection in San Mateo County was finalized.
That quote was taken from the following article, which is very interesting and worth reading for the discussion of jury selection in the Peterson case and the sort of arguments and poll data Geragos was arguing from:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20040504/ai_n14572348/
After Peterson was convicted, Geragos asked for yet another change of venue and a new jury for the penalty phase of the trial (he didn’t get either).
If Casey does get a change of venue to the requested Miami metro area, her venue change will be costly because Miami is a two-hour drive from Orlando, which will require hotel arrangements for everyone involved. Scott Peterson’s new trial venue was only 30 miles from Modesto, close enough that people could be transported to the courthouse every day. Because of the costliness of a change of venue, Strickland is going to have to be convinced that Casey could only get a fair trial in a jurisdiction other than Orlando. However, he would never use cost as the only reason for denying the change if the defense makes a compelling case that Casey cannot get a fair trial in Orlando.
I am very sure Team Casey will be conducting public opinion polling prior to trial if they haven’t already started. Back on October 7, the Orlando Sentinel reported that Press Corps Media (the infamous Todd Black) claimed to have conducted focus groups on the weekend of October 4 and 5. “While Baez has been handling legal issues in the case, Black — who is with a firm called Press Corps Media — met with focus groups last weekend to gauge public opinion about the case. He said he was encouraged with the findings. The main point he learned, he said, is that the public is tired of the case and no longer trusts the media. He said he will issue a report to Baez, who may choose to use the findings to argue in favor of moving any trial on the charges to another city.”
Given that the source of this information was “Todd Black,” I have doubts that any professional focus groups were conducted. In market research, findings are only reliable if the methodology and sampling meet professional standards. People are screened before being included in focus groups, so it would be easy-peasy to game the research by selecting people who are guaranteed to offer sought-after opinions. It’s possible that the only people who were selected to participate in the claimed PCM focus groups were people who said they were tired of the case and don’t trust the media during the screening questionnaire. And if PCM did conduct focus groups that met professional standards, by the time Baez filed the motion for a venue change, Todd Black and Press Corps Media were so discredited that Baez didn’t dare use the findings.
When the motion for a change in venue is argued, I won’t be surprised if Baez uses clips from local news coverage to support an argument of sensationalized and biased coverage in the Orlando metro area. WFTV is the central Florida market leader for television news, and Baez specifically mentioned reporter Kathi Belich in his motion. She can be very amusing, but I would never claim she maintains professional distance and objectivity during her segments on this case.
Hal Boedeker of the Orlando Sentinel described one Casey-Kathi exchange that occurred on October 13:
“WFTV-Channel 9′s Kathi Belich, the market’s best shouter, was at it again Monday. When Belich roared at Casey Anthony, the suspect started running. Belich brings such prosecutorial gusto to her shoutouts that Perry Mason would be impressed.
In a softer voice, Belich also asked, “Are you nervous about the grand jury tomorrow?” Casey Anthony, the mother of missing Caylee, said nothing. But Belich studied Casey’s face and determined the answer was yes.
Belich had help because, as she noted, Casey was not wearing “her big, white, stolen sunglasses.””
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/10/casey-are-you-w.html
That type of coverage is going to play very nicely into defense arguments that the Orlando metro coverage has been extremely biased against Casey Anthony. Television reporting that includes a completely gratuitous comment about Casey’s “big, white, stolen sunglasses” goes far, far beyond the negative publicity that can be attributed solely to discovery released in accordance with Florida’s open records laws.
#1678 riddie. Your S0 descriptive (chuckle) LOL. Can I just add that perhaps she might dispense legal advice to YOU KNOW her (beaches). I hear she has been studying the law (ironical) but unfortunately TOO LATE for caylee.
Jan/Granmomma #1688 & #1689 — sorry I took your name, I had no idea!! It was very sweet of you to change nics. I hope it’ll be worth it, because I don’t think I’ll be posting much … mostly reading. But thanks again.
Geo and Cindy will be in court tomorrow, apparently they have not turned over documents as requested by the state. Something to do with their computer ‘being down’ so they could not do it.
Computer is down–Brad Conway down with back problem– George and Cindy down with the media ‘fright’– what excuses will they have for Strickland tomorrow?
Will they even show up? Will they bring their computer in tow or will the computer happen upon some mishap on the way to court?
What computer is it and why didn’t LE have search warrants to do a mirror drive from the beginning? I bet anything of value to LE has long since been lost, permanently.
George and Cindy going to be hauled back to court in criminal case….
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-bk-casey-anthony-case-hearing-072309,0,3645760.story
Sounds like more G and C game playing for delays because Brad Conway now says they are turning over the documents today, but they couldn’t do as fast as the state wanted. Why can they do it now so fast, to try to avoid court tomorrow at 1:30.
This is not good for Casey, it looks really bad as if something is being held back, then all of a sudden, it’s available at the moment it’s demanded by the judge.
(orlandosentinel.com has the most info so far)
To Elmosmommy,Brenda and Joan. Hi canada. Thanks for representing caylee.
This is Rick Plasea being interviewed by LE
its very informative.
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Plesea,%20Rick.082108.pdf
Kleat #1671- yep, saw that nonsense
Baez was (way) out of line requesting Strickland to remind the State of a (very basic) ethical obligation.
IMO, it was not just Baez that upset Lamar though.
Baez clearly falls into the category of lawyers who sadly believe that replacing (their lack of) SKILL with (the playing of) GAMES is somehow what makes for a good attorney. Nothing could be further from the truth. It may have scored him a moment of smug satisfaction there, for whatever that’s worth to his needful ego(particularly with cameras rolling), but a good reputation it earns him not.
Lamar’s reaction made me wince, however–
I, too, was disheartened by Strickland’s response. I would have liked for the judge to take the reins more tightly by admonishing Baez for even making the request, which was clearly intended as a two-bit-pot-shot. Had Strickland done so, I believe that would have served to help nip the future of this kind of nonsense in the bud.
Hopefully Lamar learned a valuable lesson here.
Even when the judge rules against you– and as difficult as it may be– you are NOT A CHILD ON THE PLAYGROUND WHO CAN PROTEST AND SULK. You THANK THE JUDGE (FOR THE RULING itself). First of all, it shows proper respect for the bench, but second of all, it makes something that could be damaging to your case appear to be a throw-away. Trial work is more than knowing the law/the evidence/etc. It’s knowing how to put on a good “dog-and-pony show”.
Provoking Poirot #1695-
I find the fact that Cindy returned to work after finding the car, and then telling co-workers that the car “smells like a dead body” very interesting. Remember, this is someone who refused to acknowledge/admit Casey’s (very OBVIOUS) pregnancy at the office, when others could clearly see for themselves that she was late term. This is someone who didn’t tell much to co-workers about the problems Casey was causing at home/with finances, etc UNTIL she started faithfully reporting all of the crazy stories from June 16th on, including the report about the pool ladder, and all of the nonsense about where Casey/Caylee supposedly were (including the ridiculous aftermath of “Zanny’s” alleged car accident, where the ER dept somehow missed a “laceration” behind “Zanny’s” ear. Would a nurse really believe that???).
Why would Cindy suddenly be so open about personal matters???
To quote the source herself, it doesn’t “MAKE SENSE”. (unless she was covering her own behind perhaps??)
I still cannot get over the txt she sent to Casey later that afternoon:
“Call me asap. Major prob.” (haven’t seen or spoken to or heard Caylee’s voice in 31 days, retrieves car which has been on impound lot for 2 wks, car smells like a dead body has been in it, and THIS is her TEXT to Casey??)
Puhlease. She had to know that Casey had LIED about Tampa/nanny-in-accident nonsense, and had been in Orlando, at least up until JULY 3rd when she had Lee go check Casey’s MySpace account so he could go after her that evening at the Dragon Room (although I am also suspicious of Lee, because how did Casey manage to find out that he would be there?? Why invite a bunch of friends to a place where you are going to confront your sister about VERY PRIVATE FAMILY MATTERS??)
UGHHHH. This family is so full of it, it’s BANANAS.
Off to Dragon Boat race practice… in the rain no less=(!
#1688 granmomma AKA jan. HEEHEE OMG I need a tissue. Teehee AnTHONY yuck and talking out both sides of your mouth.(Chuckle) and I thought I was the cheeky one. Ohhhh tee hee. Have you met imablueredhead, she’s hysterical.
update– WESH’s video on tomorrow’s hearing will apparently discuss the documents in detail, that the state has requested and that have not been provided by the Anthony’s because their computer is ‘down’ according to Conway.
If the computer is ‘down’, then it may just be that the Anthony’s have cried ‘wolf!’ one too many times to be believed. Scrambling to get the documents into the state in time to have the hearing cancelled may be only because the threat of discussing these documents in detail ‘in the media’.
Will they be able to pull this one off in time? Or is there more to this story, are some of the documents already unrecoverable, for example. Oops– too bad!! Besides, it’s the state’s fault for wanting things to happen too quickly, not OUR fault.
These parents are not helping their daughter.
ItsMeLyn – what is the date of those FBI interviews? It sounds like the one I am looking for, but when I attempt to go to the WFTV site, the site loads, but the video won’t load and play, so I can’t watch this video. Is this a different FBI interview than the one on Sept. 25? Can someone tell me how to get it to play on my computer? I tried “allowing pop-ups on this site” but it still didn’t work.
Also, that timeline link you provided was awesome.
I want to take a minute to say I was happy to see Mark Nejame’s name mentioned earlier. I miss him and if I didn’t already have a ‘special thing’ with Bill S. I’d be fawning over Mark, although we never hear about him any more. An upstanding and honourable attorney (my mouth will not shape the word ‘attorney’ in reference to Baez ~ I can barely spit out the words ‘junk lawyer’) who ended his relationship with the Anthonys because he is too good to be hanging with that low-classy family. In this tragic case that seems to have attracted nothing but crooks and con artists, Mark stands as one of the few that weren’t seduced by the fast fame for all the wrong reasons.
He does, he has become a dear friend I trust.
B
“You THANK THE JUDGE (FOR THE RULING itself). First of all, it shows proper respect for the bench, but second of all, it makes something that could be damaging to your case appear to be a throw-away.”
Silver, this makes perfect sense, I realize there is decorum and strategy to consider at trial, but seeing it spelled out like that is great. Do they teach this in lawschool 101 ? Or is this part of learning ‘the ropes’ on the job? LOL. Thanks
Dragon Room races????
Oh… Dragon Boat races!!! 
One might think you are Canadian too as this is a popular activity up here too, Silverspnr!! Raining now, dragonboat practices on the water as we speak…
BTW, Lee said something to Tony in the car video, that implied that when he located where Casey was at the Dragonroom, he didn’t take things so seriously to get to her in person, with comments to Tony about his mindset with Casey in trying to find her that night, as if she didn’t want to be found, then tough.
FYI:
1.Even if a computer is “down” or had a bad crash..so what! I have been getting into computers that have crashed, had Trojans and full of bugs and worms for years! I don’t care if they reformatted the hard drive because I can get the info anyway..there is only ONE WAY to remove data permanently and that is to physically remove the hard drive from the case and beat the hell out of it with a hammer and breaking the plates into tiny pieces( it is the thing that looks like a tiny record). Even programs that say they can remove data or step on it enough times to remove data have no idea how easy it is to find data on any intact hard drive.
2. The smell in the car and the decomp..why Cindy did not know or remember how easy it would be to remove it with one common item in the medicine cabinet, I have no clue. I won’t say what the stuff is, but it is one of the few things that will really mess up blood, DNA, and other stuff like that..some nurse! Maybe she wanted Casey to get caught??
Hi Everyone – like others I really wondered what was happening with posts yesterday too. Elmosmommy I’m on Salt Spring Island.
Kosmo I’ve been struck too by the “coincidence” of a Zenaida at the Sawgrass Apartments.
I knew Baez would take a run at the searches of the area where Cayley’s remains were found. Seems to me that KW and RK will be helpful to the Prosecution – esp. if they aren’t too flakey. The experts will be weighing in on this one. I just can’t figure how the defense are going to pay for it all….how much money are people sending the psycho.
Oh yeah, Blink you rock!!! I am the grand mother of 7 and if I don’t hear from my kids or grand kids, I go over to their house and check up on them!! 31 days without hearing from Caylee and Cindy doesn’t go crazy is unfathomable!
1571 Kleat
That isn’t Lawson Lamar; it’s Jeff Ashton, Assistant State Attorney.
Yes, I like him, but he lets Baez wind him up to easily. He has his opposing counsel in angst from the get go because they are insulted they have to be in the same trial with an ill intentioned neophyte.
B
Andrea Yates was tragically and severely mentally ill. She had a proven history of being hospitalized and on/off powerful psychotropic medications. She had virtually non-existent help from family and had spent years trying to live with her children and husband in a converted bus. I hate what happened to her children as much as anyone but there is no evidence of anything similar with CA. Casey is a psychopathic narcissist who deserves no sympathy whatsoever.
1699 Wendy
Thank you for for your quick response. I am glad to get clarification to what I had read before!!I figure her tears were for tonys eyes only and not real tears at that!! Her day and her parents day ‘s are numbered.. the anthonys will not be able to play dumb in court as they did in the depo!! let’s see them disrespect the judge!!!
TO all other posters that answered me on this matter!! thank you so much your all so nice!!!! I love mostly lurking and reading!!!
1711 Jan – Thanks just didn’t want any confusion and there’s ALOT of posters here. But, you seemed like a nice enough lady if my identity was going to be taken, I’m glad it was someone as kind as you!
1718 Boo – I’m addicted, I’ve read every comment on here for the past two weeks. I have chuckled at imablueredhead several times….TEE HEE! Actually I’m a red head too…..I wonder if she’s truly a red head….usually our sense of humor comes from being made fun of when we were young and was being compared to the infamous “Howdy Doody”…hehehe! I’m okay with that though, us redheads (with our fair complexion) age really well!
Lily – re 1728 and Andrea Yates I totally agree.
I’m being sarcastic here or making an attempt. In terms of lucky Casey has been consider that pseudo human Chris Coleman. Caught placing his care call less than five minutes after he left home. Texting the g/f at the memorial. Etc. etc. Clearly Coleman doesn’t watch NG. Poor him he could have learned so much.
Richard Grund Part1 on veilanna’s channel on you tube 8:43 in says casey first spoke of Zenaida Gonzales in 2006.How does the Saw Grass Zenaida tie in?
Lily- #1728
Not sure why Andrea Yates was pulled into this discourse, but I could not agree with you more, or have said it better myself.
Thank you for your post.
Dondura re 1724 and medicine cabinet I may find myself begging you for the answer in a month or so! Sorry to get personal but I may be having a litter of Airedale puppies. Wash, wash, wash and clean, clean, clean can always use reassurance. Been there and done it. Good old practical advice is just what I need cause this is news to me. Listerene?
Boo-I must tell you……Stand for child killers I do not……but Andrea Yates….crazy…..I must say. I believe (much like the Anthony’s) she (Andrea) was let down.I live 5 miles from where she did. My Aunt worked with her husband and signs of HELP ME….. there were! Please do not misunderstand me! I know what she did was SO WRONG and HORRIFYING to even try to think of,but this woman was insane with a capital IIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!! I think it is a long shot to compare Andrea to Casey. Miss Party girl knew what she was doing- Andrea heard VOICES that her ENTIRE family knew about and continued to let her be around her children (without supervision) even though it was against their best interest. I am not attacking you, but I certainly have a different opinion of Casey as opposed to Andrea…..Crazy Vs Evil…..No Doubt!
#1705 Boo, Thanks for the perspective. The Nanny business never made sense…not even the use of that term, much less the fictitious/fabricated person.
I just read the transcript of GA’s interview with LE. It’s so apparent that they’re aware that KC knows what happened to Caylee. The call from CA to GA, after KC came home, where she says “We lost her. We lost her.” They’ve know since that time. It’s very sad. Baez is doing KC no favors by insulating her from her family. If there was any possibiity of her coming clean, it disappeared with Baez’ interference. Now they’re just in too deep. Just as LE warned George could happen in that early interview. After reading through everything, I am less confident that Caylee’s death was intentional on KC’s part now, but I do believe that she killed her either negligently or purposely. I can’t believe her counsel’s advise…she could avert the DP if she copped a plea. If she had come clean earlier on, her punishment would surely have been much less severe than what she will likely receive. I do not expect that the public (or her family) will ever know the full truth re what actually happened.
#1726 I think that Cindy was going crazy. Her actions (after finding the car, and Casey’s return) are those of someone who is just absolutely off the deep end. She was probably going crazy prior to that. She is clearly beyond out of control now. I don’t know what she was like before her daughter killed her grandchild, but if she had issues prior, this certainly exacerbate them.
As for GA, he appeared to be on the road to cooperating with LE, when he was influenced in another direction. He is now just as crazy and off the deep end as CA.
I have to say that the idea of throwing my out of control adult child out on the streets with their minor child is … a difficult thought to ponder. I have read many books, and talked to many counselors, and they often advise families who are in “codependent situations” to practice “tough love”. That may be what was happening with the “bonding time” business. “Forcing KC to be an adult, and care for her own child.” Counselors often advise parents to cut their adult kids off, and let them deal with their own problems. 12 step programs, books, shrinks, etc… all preach about “tough love”, and forcing parasitic adult kids to take responsibility.
Imagine invoking the tenet of “tough love”, and then your daughter killing your grandchild… might make you feel guilty or responsible, hence the desperate defense of KC.
#1720 Carolyn… .the date of the interview was July 31, 2008 with FBI. It took the video a while to load for me but eventually did. Sorry I know of no transcript for it.
Yes that site is awesome for links/docs/timeline etc… thousands of hours of work in that one for sure.
Maura, you are so right!!! Sorry for the mis-speak, no excuses, I knew that too!!! Thank you for the corrxn!
Duh….
Hey BrendaT, I am confident that there was no coincidence with Casey finding the ZG at Sawgrass and that will become clear in time. (especially if Mn’M ever get their case moving again)
I can tell you that JBM believes that the non-coincidence is that Harry ran out with her ID (ZG) and called her name outside the office when Casey was also there. I DO NOT BELIEVE that. As you all know I believe Casey was using that alias before ZG ever went to Sawgrass. In fact, I wonder how she came upon the recommendation to go there in the first place, by all accounts the rent was out of her price range in the first place.
B
BrendaT, Blink checks the posts and she’s been on location, so posts piled up a little between times, that’s what happened with the delays– we see our own posts, but they don’t actually get posted until cleared I think.
Silverspnr– catch that mistake? Jeff Ashton, not Lamar. Sorry.
(feeling a bit stupid here, not paying attention– Lamar has more gray hairs than Ashton, but if Ashton has to be across from Baez too long, he’ll probably catch up. Linda D-B seems to have a bit of a quiet sense of humour, joking with Baez about the trial date in January not interfering with his IDOL schedule.)
Baez hired a private investigator last summer specifically to check the Anthony family’s phones for bugs. Why the concern if the child was alive? Why wouldn’t Baez welcome bugs to catch the kidnapper in an incoming call to Casey or the Anthony’s– maybe it would be Caylee again, and the call could be monitored and traced! Maybe they could get the baby home, or hear her voice again one more time from another private number.
Lee told Tony why he asked to meet Tony in person vs talking with him on the phone– it was to avoid police investigators hearing what they were saying!
Lee said: “The one reason that I wanted to make sure that we meet too, uhm… ahh.. our attorney hired a private investigator for the day just to trace our phone, well PING our phones. My mother, my father, my parents house, there’s a bug on every one of them, cause it came back that those calls are being monitored. We dont’ know by who, ok… cause I mean you can get certain scramblers, things like that, even just at little spy stores. But he said the level of complexity … on their two cell phones was … high tech…” (so he thought it was the police). “The one at the house was real low frequency, could be media– some that are just within range” (Lee notes they have media outside the house 24-7)
“We do everything through our cell phones, but my concern is he ran it on mine.. he said nothing…. he said nothing came back. From what I can tell you are free and clear. If you don’t mind, I want to check yours every day… I said I give you permission.”
The P.I. said to Lee that in the meantime, if he needed to have a long conversation with somebody about anything as it relates to anything, that he suggested that Lee meet them. Lee said that the P.I. told him email is the best… they can’t trace your computer or your emails, but they can read your texts and listen to your phone if they are tracing you.
Lee asked the P.I. if he should get a new phone and was told ‘no’, that would look suspicious. (and would be a waste of money because they will bug that) Lee talked to the P.I. everyday to find out if his phone was bugged yet.
Baez I suppose was the attorney Lee was referring to? Why, if Baez knew the child was alive with an abductor, would he not encourage any and all phones to be monitored in case a call came in once again, from Caylee or those who held her? This is only going by his own theory at the time that the child was alive and held somewhere.
I found this laughable. Apparently he is not aware of laser wiretapp technology. He did that for show. If anyone had a license to tapp the Anthony home that would have been useless.
B
Post # 1618 VeLoWoodson
you may be correct about Timer 55
after much mental pondering (based on Casey’s
years in high school). Wasn’t she on the track team?
Just a thought …. ANY RUNNERS HERE PLEASE GIVE
YOUR INPUT. When running a 10K race (6.2 miles)
especially for a track runner wouldn’t your “GOAL”
be 55 minutes? TIMER55 10k run in less than 55 min?
Less than a 9 min mile?
I think this may just be an insignificant point and people
are wasting time trying to figure it out because it is
too simple. Are we making a mountain out if a mole hill here?
I wonder exactly hoe long that password had been used
obviously if it was recently changed my theory is SUNK!
Kleat-
While that surreptitiously recorded conversation between Lee and Tony took place after the fact of Casey’s arrest and perhaps some family meetings with Cindy at the helm, having now read Rick Plesea’s interview transcript (thank you, CHICA-#1716- for posting that link), I am now more deeply convinced than ever before that there is a deep sickness/darkness that permeates the entirety of this nuclear family (C, G, L & Casey). It isn’t just Casey and/or Cindy. It’s all 4 of them.
Poor little Caylee had no chance. She was bound to become part of it as time moved on.
It makes you realize how fortunate one is to be trusted by others–to know it/feel it. No matter how much someone may (temporarily) feel protected (from whatever troubles them) by their words/acts of deception (for example, by telling lies and playing games with others about who they are/what they stand for)… at the very core of their deceipt is a sad and tragic truth. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEM.
June 15, 2008-Cindy wakes up/has a moment of clarity after spending time with her (sane/rational) mother, Shirley, on Father’s Day; reflects on what the counselor at work has advised her to do; and while finally truly confronts Casey about the fraud she has committed against her own grandmother and grandfather (stroke victim), (and probably the whole lot of it against C & G as well). She tells Casey she is going to take Caylee away from her to “teach her a lesson”.
Casey (a/k/a “Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez”) either kills Caylee on the spot or takes off with (kidnaps, in a sense) Caylee, and kills her within hours, and why?? Because “MAYBE” (ha) she is a “SPITEFUL BITCH”.
And who does Casey blame for this? Certainly not herself. She blames Cindy.
Cindy cannot see Casey’s truth when it is standing (and sticking out like a pregnant belly) right before her own eyes.
So even if she goes there in her head and considers that Casey killed Caylee, she also goes back to the family dynamic–and denies it (to herself/to other family members/to LE/to the world).
(or.. that’s what Cindy’s PR rep should peddle after Casey is convicted on Murder One;)
BTW- am not from Canada, but I love your homeland=)
Maura-
Great additional commentary on the venue transfer issue. The defense will certainly have to develop the evidence of record in order to support whatever reason(s) Baez et al set forth in their Motion such that the judge can properly render an opinion. And whatever they present, Strickland is bound by Florida law (rules of procedure and/or caselaw interpreting same– precedent/stare decisis).
Here is the statute:
910.03 Place of trial generally.–
(1) Except as provided in s. 910.035 or in subsection (2), criminal prosecutions shall be tried in the county where the offense was committed; but if the county is not known, the accused may be charged in two or more counties conjunctively, and before trial the accused may elect the county in which he or she will be tried. By his or her election, the accused waives the right to trial in the county in which the crime was committed. Such election shall have the force and effect of the granting of an application of the accused for change of venue from the county in which the offense was committed to the county in which the case is tried.
(2) After a court orders a change of venue and in order to protect the defendant’s due process rights, the court, upon a motion of any party, shall give priority to any county which closely resembles the demographic composition of the county wherein the original venue would lie.
(3) If a court finds that a fair and impartial jury cannot be impaneled in the county where the offense was committed, and the court determines that once a jury is selected it shall be sequestered, the court on its own motion, or upon a motion of any party, may elect to select a jury from a county other than where the offense was committed. The selection of the alternative county will be governed by the requirements of subsection (2). Upon completion of jury selection, the jury shall be brought for trial to the county where the offense was committed.
My question is–
Does Miami/Dade County “CLOSELY RESEMBLE THE DEMOGRAPHIC COMPOSITION” of Orange County??? (my guess is NO).
Why do you suppose MIAMI would be selected by Baez???
Because of the heavy Latino population. He is going to try to appeal to the Puerto Rican community because he has business interests there and I guess he thinks that populus will buy this crap after his client railroaded one of their own into having to change her name and murdered her baby and attempted to blame her as well. What a Marroon.
B
#1720 Carolyn… the video you are looking for is also on youtube. About 3.50 min mark. Hope this one helps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsf0g0evsDg
Additional statute for consideration:
910.14 Kidnapping.–A person who commits an offense provided for in s. 787.01 or s. 787.02 may be tried in any county in which the person’s victim has been taken or confined during the course of the offense.
History.–s. 44, ch. 1637, 1868; RS 2368; GS 3193; RGS 5023; CGL 7125; s. 84, ch. 70-339; s. 55, ch. 83-215; s. 2, ch. 93-156; s. 19, ch. 93-227; s. 1519, ch. 97-102.
Note.–Former s. 932.14.
Casey made an admission to George during one of the jail visitations on video/audio. She said she had not left ORLANDO at all during the 31 days. Hadn’t been anywhere else in the whole State in the prior months except Jacksonville, and a couple of days at the beach–am guessing that did not mean Miami/South Beach.
If the defense persuades Strickland that the local media attention on the case is such that trying the case in Orange County with an jury comprised of Orange County residents would deprive Casey of her due process rights, aren’t there other Florida counties that would more “closely resemble the demographic composition” of Orange County?
Why MIAMI, if not for the entirely IMPROPER reason I have already suggested for Baez’s selection? (in my initial post on this issue)
To me, selection of MIAMI as transferee county = IMPROPER FORUM SHOPPING
#1686 Carolyn S from Maryland-
Look at post #713 posted by Maura. She lists the items in Casey’s trunk with the gas cans on June 24th (this information was from the July 31st FBI interview). I will post the links I have found of the July 31st FBI interview wtih George.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=george+anthony+july+31st+fbi+interview&search_type=&aq=f
Silverspnr, thanks for your comments on the wiretap– well, something is amiss with this family. Wiretaps to catch a kidnapper in communications, novel idea that they never heard of, obviously!
(sidenote– this was before Casey was charged with anything of course– ‘anything’ according to Cindy, but of course, she was charged with the lesser offenses. They don’t date that video, but Lee talks about how he went to the jail to visit ‘Saturday’ and learned that they were going to release the video of Patrick Bougeois, and he was Pi$$’d because they didn’t tell him that the jail videos could be released too and he explained some of those concerns ‘on camera’ in this video. So I suspect that this recording was done between his two visits at the end of July. Could be wrong. Wish they would date this material. That’s why I think that Baez was the lawyer Lee refers to, as that activity was designed to help Casey, something that Mark NeJame never would do.
ItsMeLyn
Thank you! Thank you! I spent two hours last night trying to find that part of the interview! Who would of guessed it was part 7 or whatever since it was earlier in the interview.
Anyway, thank you.
Here is what I was looking for –
George clearly states that he was at the back of the car and could see in the trunk. In all his later statements he backs off this completely and never admits he sees into the trunk.
He says that he “saw clothes” and a blue bin which contained the gas cans.
When he says he “saw clothes” could he have seen a laundry bag? Most of us would assume that clothes were in the laundry bag.
Is this the reason he has backed off that statement so completely? AT first it seems that his statement would clear Casey of having the body in the trunk. But the body was found IN A LAUNDRY BAG. Could George have later realized that he actually saw Caylee’s body and didn’t realize it?
Could this also be a moment of panic for Casey? Maybe she had other plans about the body and planting it somewhere to incriminate someone, but in her guilty mind she knew what her dad had seen. She was afraid he might follow her and investigate further, so she drove down the street and dumped the body as soon as possible.
If the body had been well contained in the plastic bags up to this point, the smell may have been contained, also. Then as she dragged the bag out of the trunk, it tore the plastic bags and decomp fluid spilled into the trunk. It smelled bad, but she didn’t think much of it at the time and got rid of the body.
Over the next couple of days, the stench from the decomp fluid would have gotten worse. She tried to clean it up, but it kept getting worse.
Anyway, that is a possible scenario that I have been toying with. You guys are welcome to shoot it down and poke holes in my thinking.
OK– I hate to bring this up, but–
Even IF Casey intended to go back to Amscot for the car/it really did just run out of gas–
Here is some great evidence of her CONSCIOUSNESS of GUILT:
She didn’t call Cindy to tell her that the car was probably TOWED so that Cindy would either get it out of Tow. A simple call to Johnson’s, whose signs are at Amscot, would have rendered a simple answer.
How would Casey explain that she was in Orlando when she also said she was in Tampa or Jacksonville or wherever??
SIMPLE. She just makes up another lie about having to be in town for some Universal event. Cindy buys all her other crap, right??
The reason Casey didn’t alert her mother to the fact that the car was, in all probability, TOWED from Amscot to Johnson’s is that she was AWARE that the car smelled of Caylee’s death.
(otherwise, we know from her patterns that she would have immediately summoned her mother to go get the car–and pay the bill, of course– because Casey is only concerned with what Casey wants and needs, and she clearly needs a mode of transportation to get around Orlando).
This is (another reason) why legal insanity and mental defect are totally off the table for the defense.
There is just no way she believes all of her own lies. She knows what she has done.
CONSCIOUSNESS OF GUILT!
Kleat-
I saw Maura’s correction on the identity of counsel. I confess I haven’t taken time to become acquainted with all the players. Apologies to Lamar. Here’s to hoping that ADA has learned a valuable lesson and applies it to future court appearances.
BLINK-
Hold the phone.
Someone may have recommended/sent the REAL ZFG to Sawgrass Apts ON PURPOSE? Who could that be, other than Casey, unless the murder of Caylee was part of a CONSPIRACY??
Just for fun, if a conspiracy it was– I vote:
Casey + Milsteads + some exotic car dealer (–Frank McKeever, a/k/a Thomas Franck, maybe?–)who (allegedly) put up $200,000.00 reward for KFN to “advertise” in order to solicit more funds for their greedy, thieving selves.
Don’t imagine that I haven’t gone there in my head on occasion– (then reeled myself back in). What originally raised my suspicion about that was Casey’s use of the name “ZACHARY” in her story.
Everyone familiar with that other Florida missing child case– Zachary Bernhardt??? Single mother of young child leaves child alone in apartment –from which, like many others, she was about to be evicted– and goes for a walk around 4am, leaving the young child alone in the apartment, because she was having some insomnia. When she returns, only 15 minutes later, …you guessed it. The child is missing. Very small window for a crime of opportunity by a stranger. Mother later tells LE that she didn’t just take a short walk, but also went for a swim– in the middle of the night, and was gone for a longer period of time.
To be fair, she has never been charged with any wrongdoing, but to be equally fair,… yep, you guessed it–the Milsteads have their sticky fingers in that one too.
It has not been ruled out, the reason ZG went to that apartment, on that day, is not clear. But NO, I do not think it is linked to a conspiracy in Caylee’s death whatsoever. Just the ID.
B