Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: New Discovery Released – Lee Anthony Granted Immunity?
Orlando, Florida– Over 1500 pages of New Discovery have been released by the State’s Attorney’s Office in the Case against Casey Anthony for the murder of 34 month old Caylee Marie Anthony.
A source speaking on condition of anonymity to blinkoncrime.com, believes almost half of the information contained in the reports relates to Jesse Grund, Casey’s former fiancee’.
SOURCE LINKS TO DOCUMENTS (11:05AM):
http://www.wesh.com/news/20224026/detail.html
Parts 1–18 at above link
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates and source links as they become available.
WFTV is reporting the Lee Anthony has been granted immunity prior to his deposition by the State’s Attorney’s office this morning. Blinkoncrime has not been able to corroborate this report at the time of this posting. Lee is also facing a motion to compel his testimony in the civil case against his sister, lodged by Zenaida Gonzalez through her attorney John Morgan.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for this developing story.
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Blink,
From your soources, you have heard about the partial prints on the duct tape. But has this document been released to the defense yet? If so, it’s difficult to believe that they are going to let this play out further.
I definately belive it has. Probably the day before they decided to retain Lyon. Baden was on Geraldo stating that there is NO DNA on the duct tape. That’s where they are going with that. Try to get the DP off the table, and then when that fails, refute the prints as hers.
B
Blink, do you remember as this case was just starting to unfold and Cindy Anthony was talking to the press, either in her front yard or while she & George were walking to some appointment while being pursued by the press? Something Cindy said about law enforcement has been bothering me ever since.
In response to questions about the findings of human decomposition fluids & hair having been found in Casey’s trunk, Cindy said something to the effect that the police lie all the time and that there was no evidence that Caylee was dead. She flat out denied the existence of the decomp and hair in the car she & George found. That these allegations were some sort of police ruse designed to trick them. This was the car that triggered her frantic search for Caylee & Casey, that compelled her to make the calls to 911 and the car that she reported smelled like there’d been a dead body in the damn car.
First question: Why does the wife of a former police officer believe law enforcement is a group of liars and tricksters? I don’t understand her distrust of police & FBI investigators searching for Caylee.
Second question: Cindy’s reaction to decomp/hair evidence in Casey’s trunk was denial. It’s normal to deny bad news initially, but Cindy continued on this track. Why didn’t the discovery of Caylee’s skeletal remains, so nearby, in the Anthony’s own neighborhood, cause Cindy to reevaluate her stance? She continues on her course to nowhere.
It’s as though Cindy is rationalizing, “Well Caylee’s dead, but maybe if I can get Casey acquitted, I’ll wake up from this nightmare.”
Cindy Anthony has been driven mad by this crime. She’s experienced a total break from reality. She doesn’t seem to grasp that even if Casey is somehow acquitted (impossible), Caylee has still been murdered.
What do you think, Blink?
Boo I just don’t see it.. If GA knew about the car before they got the car back that would have been even a bigger reason to get a solid story together…. It wouldn’t be to let the car sit there and cost more and more money each day and then to finally go pick it up and to call 911 and tell them the car smells like there has been a dead body in it?
Cindy= my daughter has been missing and I finally found her and I just found out my granddaughter has been missing for 31 days. They want Casey arrested for theft.. They tell Casey on the phone while she is in Jail that if she hadn’t lied about everything she wouldn’t be where she’s at…
Now that really doesn’t sound like a good plan to me… It sounds more like a family that just got smashed with the reality bus and were faced with the worst possible senario of years of ignoring all the lies/theft and manipulations of their daughter.
And as far as George and the gas can story. Read his words very carefully. He says he is CERTAIN it was the 24th and even repeats a couple times he is sure and then throws in but if Cindy says another date well then.. I will try to find the exact qoute. Point is he is confident unless they talk to Cindy. LOL. I believe the gas can thingy happened but not sure about the day.
This whole family knows what Casey did. They didn’t want to face it(and who would) and they would tip-toe around trying to get her to talk. We have all seen how Casey respondes when trapped in a corner. Who better knows that then her family…. That is why they never came out directly and pushed for the truth.. They knew she would just get angry and keep up the BS.
Let me take one thing back.. They did push in the very begining.. Like on the phone with Casey from jail. She said all she wanted was Tony’s phone number and when they asked her something she would go off telling how it was a waste of time for her to have called them. They knew probably from the day on she wasn’t going to just come out and tell them what happened..
273 J.G.
There is no doubt that the Caylee-only hairbrush would have provided a superior forensic sample to the Caylee-Casey hairbrush that Cindy gave to LE on July 21. You make a good point about the possibility of drug testing on Caylee’s hair samples, but that made me wonder why OCSO didn’t ask Cindy for all the items in the house that would likely have Caylee’s hair adhered to them (all brushes and combs, hats, hair ties, barrettes, etc.).
As you noted, by process of elimination, Casey was alive and Caylee was missing. There are over a dozen characteristics of decomposition that can appear on a human hair that has fallen from a corpse, and postmortem banding is only one of them (and one of the least common characteristics). Chances are good that the hair with postmortem banding also showed additional markers of decomposition, so there would be little doubt that the hair had fallen from a corpse.
Human head hair contains nuclear DNA (nDNA) at the root (the tiny bulb that anchors the hair to the scalp). The shaft of the hair contains only mitochondrial DNA (mDNA, which is maternal-only DNA). The hair with postmortem banding that was found in the trunk was missing the bulb, which is why only mDNA could be extracted. Everyone in Cindy’s maternal line has the same mDNA (Shirley, Cindy, Lee, Casey, Caylee, Cindy’s brothers, etc.), so based on mDNA alone, the hair could have come from anyone in the family who had access to the Pontiac.
But forensic scientists who work with hair distinguish the hair of different people by comparing the hairs under a microscope. While Cindy, Lee, Casey, and Caylee all have the same mDNA, their hairs have individual colors and lengths as well as different microscopic characteristics. Cindy’s hair is short and dyed blond, so she was out. Lee’s hair is dark and short, so he was out. During George and Cindy’s July 25 jail visit, Casey told Cindy that she had recently colored her hair, and even Casey’s untreated hair was darker and shorter than Caylee’s hair.
I do not agree with your assumption that the prosecution, prior to December 11, had none of Caylee’s hair to compare with the trunk hair. I do believe Cindy provided a brush on July 21 that contained the hair of both Casey and Caylee. On the same day, a warrant was served at the jail to collect a buccal swab and hair samples from Casey.
The forensic scientists would have removed all the hairs from the brush provided by Cindy along with Casey’s recently-recovered hear hair, examined the hairs under the microscope and by process of elimination, separated Caylee’s hair from Casey’s hair. Cindy made LE work harder by forced them to examine and separate the hairs, but I do believe OCSO retrieved Caylee’s hair from the brush Cindy gave them.
Why? 1) At the bond hearing the next day, July 22, Yuri Melich said hairs were found in the trunk of the Pontiac that were consistent in length and color with Caylee’s hair, and 2) OCSO apparently never had to return to the Anthony house for additional items that contained Caylee’s hair because they couldn’t find any of her hair on the brush they collected on July 21.
Another point to make about the hairbrushes is that there is no indication anywhere that the brush in Cindy’s bathroom that she used exclusively for Caylee contained many – if any – hairs. The brush Cindy gave OCSO might have contained many more of Caylee’s hairs than the brush in Cindy’s bathroom. Cindy is a neatnik and Casey, by Lee’s account, is a slob. Cindy may have routinely cleaned Caylee’s exclusive brush of all shed hairs whereas the brush in Casey and Caylee’s bathroom may have been full of shed hairs. And Cindy may have used her brush exclusively for Caylee but not brushed Caylee’s hair as often as Casey brushed Caylee’s hair. Casey would have fixed Caylee’s hair at least five mornings a week.
It was a moral failure on Cindy’s part to fail to collect both brushes used on Caylee and offer LE both or a choice, but we don’t know that Cindy didn’t inadvertently provide OCSO with a richer source of Caylee’s hair samples by giving them the Casey-Caylee brush instead of the Caylee-only brush.
The pregnancy test was just one of many miscellaneous items found in the wooded lot where the remains were found. I don’t believe it has any more evidentiary value than the one-legged Barbie doll, batteries, pantyhose, flowerpot, etc., that were also found in that lot. People use the Suburban Drive woods as a convenient local dump.
First, Comment #281:
perhaps LP wasn’t privy to the car decomp smell, didn’t witness the maggots on the paper towels in the garbage bag, didn’t know KCs personality first hand yet, & had to look at things from a fresh perspective. I appreciate your pulling his remarks together in one spot!
Second,
What I don’t understand about KCs lies is, why come up w/ a “ZG kidnapped my daughter” story that doesn’t directly involve the car – it would’ve been more believable had she said: “ZG kidnapped my daughter, taking my car, forcing me to walk”…or something along those lines. Given the stench within the car that wasn’t gonna just go away (the reason she ditched it) & knowing that her parents had retrieved it (who were so afraid she’d drive away w/it w/o producing a live or dead Caylee that they removed the battery to disable the electrical system), why didn’t her lies not only cover her daughter’s “disappearance” but also any stench/decomp that might be found in the car by her parents??
She never explains how it got there, or weaves ZG into a story about the car — only tries to weave her into the house access by saying “don’t you remember, I told you I gave Zanny a housekey?” but a housekey isn’t a car key (perhaps one w/computer chip that costs over $100 to replace).
She may be a pathological liar but she isn’t as sophisticated in it as some have speculated – or, am I missing something here??
Oh, she did, is, or was planning to include the car. Your astute, good job, but we get one single hint of that with the question that Cindy asks Casey at a jail visit that sends her realing… Cindy asks why “she” did not come back for the car, not meaning Casey, meaning “other”.
B
288 Proverbs 6. 16-19
From what Yuri Melich wrote in his report, the items Cindy provided were the items OCSO asked for. As for the umbilical cord, she may not have thought of it. If she had been thinking hard about Caylee’s DNA, she would have told OCSO that Caylee’s DNA had already been profiled for Jesse’s 2005 paternity test. OCSO didn’t learn about the paternity test until Jesse told them during his interview on July 23.
Caylee seemed to have had several toothbrushes since there was at least one in the bathroom she shared with Casey, at least one in the backpack that was in the trunk (IIRC), and maybe one in Cindy’s bathroom. My young neices (ages four and five) each have a half-dozen toothbrushes with different characters on them. Some stay at home in different bathrooms (some bathrooms have more than one toothbrush for each girl) and a toothbrush goes to school with them.
#303 Kosmo. Did you read cindys myspace comment dated 7/3 “my caylee is gone? I mean every word? Does that message sound like denial? And does casey’s 7/7 end of days myspace comment, doesn’t that sound like a response to cindys my space comment? I think so.
Wouldn’t the state be more inclined to charge the ants with obstruction if the state somehow loses the trial, and attributes it to something geo or cin or lee did? I can see that motivating them to bring charges against one or more ants (they’d be mad as heck, right?), but maybe no so motivated if casey is found guilty. Am I overly simplistic in my thinking?
Todd #299 “what options do you think Baez and Casey have left?”
I’m really curious peoples’ thoughts on this, also.
Personally, the only credible thing I can see is for casey to come out and admit caylee’s death, say it was an accident, she drowned in the pool, casey was so frightened of cindy that she panicked and hid the body. Afterward she was so traumatized and guilty that she had some kind of psychotic break and started behaving completely bizarrely.
I’m not saying I believe/disbelieve this scenario, but just that it’s the most credible explanation that I can picture. The fact that she has not done this makes me wonder if there is evidence clearly to the contrary of it being an accident or a drowning? As far as I know, the remains do not show cause of death and there was no sign of physical trauma, but maybe there is more that is unknown at this time??
As far as what *really* happened, I have no idea. I can’t imagine why casey would not have called 911 if caylee simply drowned in the pool. She might have been negligent but these things do happen and parents don’t generally go to prison for it! so I have to wonder if she did not call 911 because there was a reason she could not have people see or examine the body? i.e.; it was not a simple drowning accident. Perhaps it was an accident of a different type (a fit of rage) or perhaps she really did kill her on purpose as some think, and afterwards, casey thought of the drowning explanation and moved the ladder to the pool but then decided/realized it would not work, so went to plan B and just tried to cover up whatever happened and hide the body.
The whole ZG story and the events after that reveal that she is not a rocket scientist, though… so, I question whether looking at it logically is of much use? the reactions of casey and her parents are so illogical and hard to understand, maybe casey would have reacted this way even if it was simply an accidental drowning? I find it very hard to understand that, but then nothing about these people makes much sense!!
I am curious others’ opinions as to whether it was an accident or purposeful murder and what evidence leads them to believe either one?
Todd, Casey told (someone. LE?) that she had taken the MMPI (Minnesota MultiPhasic Instrument—a really cool psychological test that is very revealing) and it said she was “normal.” Since that’s not actually a possible result of the test, and since she is anything but normal, I wonder what the heck the results were! I guess HIPAA laws prevent us from seeing them, tho.
She might have even taken 2 psych tests.
Fairwitness — re your post #302 …
I’m not Blink, obviously, but in my opinion (regarding why Cindy accused LE of lying), of all possible options for what to believe and how to behave, it was simply easiest for Cindy to decide it was her/her family against the world. I think it’s a comfortable place for her and jives with her general outlook on life.
I think she’s distrustful by nature, and it really doesn’t matter to her who she badmouths, as long as she doesn’t have to accuse her family more than once in awhile (because to do so reflects badly on HER), and as long as she herself doesn’t have to own up to any mistakes. To admit anything negative about Casey, is in Cindy’s eyes, to admit she (Cindy) is not perfect. And it’s bigger than that, I suspect. Cindy is fiercely protecting just how imperfect things were in her household — a household she attempted to exercise complete control over.
I think at this stage of the game, Cindy’s primary goal in all she does is to simply be RIGHT. She got aboard the innocent-Casey’s-being-railroaded train and now her only goal is to demonstrate how that train is headed in the RIGHT direction. And it’s not really about defending or protecting Casey, except as Casey is a reflection of Cindy. I don’t think Cindy’s in any denial about anything, nor do I think she’s had a break from reality. She is simply hellbent on being right.
I don’t know whether you’ve ever known a Cindy, but I’ve known a few. I’ve also known people who will go to extremes you wouldn’t believe simply to be right. Being right can become an all-consuming obsession, and it gets really ugly, really fast, when the person determined to show how right she is, is dead wrong.
Ah, here’s the bit on the mmpi:
page 2254 http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2008-11/43228283.PDF
Told DCF “she had completed an MMPI and everything was normal.”
Boo I believe they (or mostly Cindy) felt like something was terribly wrong and especially when Casey’s story of being out of town started unraveling but I don’t think they had a clue of just how horrible it really was… I think Cindy’s myspace was her really trying to put her feelings of how bad she was missing her Caylee… Did you notice how she still has the little digs about HER being the one to provide the medical food etc.for Caylee..
Look at what mode Cindy is right now.. Mamma Bear mode. I believe if she would have really know the full extent of what Casey had done she would have never called 911.. she would have tried to fix it herself. She was still trying to scare Casey into telling her where Caylee was when she was calling 911.. Even though I think both C and G knew in their heart when they picked up the car..
ps. The Anthonys themselves don’t seem to believe it was an accident; as soon as it was clear that caylee was dead, they would seem to have assumed the worst about casey, why else would they have gone on this crazy campaign to cover up and deny?
Jan I agree so much with your post. I think a big turning point for the Anthony’s was when Casey was released from jail and returned to their home.. That is when the backlash from the public came and they went on the complete defense…. All of a sudden Cindy’s family wasn’t being treated the same way and she went into mamma bear mode and has been ever since..
I also think she is probably on valium or something like that .. JMO
Just throwing this out there. I’ve always thought that one of the biggest reasons the Anthony’s act as they do is their FEAR of Casey. I think they’ve feared her for a long time. She’s been a runaway train, IMO, from early on. So many problems layer this but, in their household, there was much wrong. No excuses, of course, just trying to understand. Remember, if I’m remembering right, when Caylee was born, George was not living at home or had just returned home after his separation from Cindy. Financial issues were out of control – George lost so much of their money and Casey had nothing coming in, had just delivered a baby and her history preceded her. I try to think about their whole dynamic as best I can without knowing them. There was so much at play here. Cindy, who I view as more of a controller than anything else, really had so little control over anything if you think about it. She was really a ‘fixer’, after the fact. She paid the bills George incurred, paid for Casey and took very good care of Caylee, IMO. I don’t believe George or Cindy could ever control Casey and they both knew it. It had to scare them just dealing with her at all. When Caylee came along, although everything else was so shaky, this little angel came and shined a bright light on them. Cindy and George, IMHO, loved her deeply and were devoted to her. I remember when my son was born…everything felt so different, life was bright, the joy, the joy. Sometimes I think it’s so hard for us to think of them as just people…they seem so strange in how they’re behaving and believe me, I hate what it does to Caylee’s memory so much that it’s difficult not to judge…but then again, I think they were so afraid of how Casey behaved and didn’t have the right instincts regarding Caylee. They were perhaps so worried about Casey that, perversely, they didn’t see the writing on the wall. Cindy thought that she could fix this too. I personally do not believe they ever thought she would do this horrible thing…they could never think it. When it came to light and they knew for sure…they (Cindy & George) felt such a collective sense of guilt, of knowing what they should have done, terrified of Casey and what she’d done, that they just went into autodrive and now they’re the runaway trains. Life is always stranger than any fiction, IMO.
Sorry for the rambling but I really dig the site and wanted to put this in here…
#313 she didnt call 911 for 31 days (as out of her own mouth as casey begged for one more day),she did try to fix it herself,and was still trying to fix it herself,and maybe is still trying to fix it,she WAS trying to scare casey into telling her where caylee was (caylees body),like ALL the parents of murdered children, that is one of the tactics,threathen them with the needle, scare the murderer into telling where the body is.they all want the body back,for proper send off proper burial,and i guess it must feel gross to think the body is out there like trash.casey wouldn’t tell her cuz she was being spiteful,so cindy had no choice but to call 911,cuz casey could go on with lies about caylee forever but cindy couldnt someone was going to have to explain, so since casey defiantly defied, cindy finally 911.if casey wouldve told cindy she’s in a garbage bag in the woods up the street what do you think cindy wouldve done?
Do you think on 7/3 cindy was concerned enough that she had not seen caylee and knew casey was lying about where casey really was, coming and going like she was, stealing gas which according to geo was on 6/23, he was concerned about his cans to call the police right but on 7/3 cindy was not concerned enough to call and go get casey and caylee? why wait until 7/15? Why not find casey after they caught her stealing gas and food?
Re: cindy’s distrust of law enforcement… I have known some compulsive liars in my own life and one of the saddest things I’ve observed about them is that a compulsive liar is unable trust or believe anyone else, it just seems to be a natural law. However, I’m not sure whether that was going on with CA or if she was just looking for an excuse for her behavior.
Lori, just think this through. George and Cindy are defending Casey. If Casey were set free, where would she go? Home to her parents,right? Now if they’re afraid of her, why would they want THAT. Aren’t they safer with her in jail? If she would get out and go back to them, they better take all sharp objects out of their house, remove all bleach and alcohol, and grow eyes on the backs of their heads. Now, because of everything that’s happened, what would happen if they turned on her. They can’t do that because they’re in so deep AND MAKING SO MUCH MONEY FROM THE DEATH OF THEIR GRANDDAUGHTER. They CANNOT change their story now. They’re going to take advantage of this as long as possible knowing Casey will never get out of jail. This family is now a family of scammers and killers. We don’t like them here in Or lawn do.
Lori, #316, that is how I see it too. CA loved Caylee dearly, she was so hurt and disappointed when she couldn’t have Caylee during her week off. She stayed around every day just in the hope she would get to have Caylee that day.
I believe CA loves casey very much too, she is just dysfuntional in how she shows love, in what she believes love to mean, and as a result of that, she raised a sociopathic child, and also as a result of that, and her own pride, she continues to make serious mistakes.
The anthonys need to accept what has happened and just grieve. Just let go and let themselves grieve and accept. The more they try to interfere and control the outcome, it just makes their daughter look guilty and evil; the opposite affect than they are trying for.
Boz – thanks for your reply but I don’t think you’re reading me right. I’m no fan at all of how the Anthony’s have behaved. I understand that they’re defending her but I was just trying to understand the dynamics behind their actions. I truly don’t think they know what they want at this point…they are desperate people behaving in a desperate way. Their world as they knew it (however dysfunctional it was) is over…although they loved Caylee with all their hearts, they love their daughter too and cannot bring themselves to participate in her death. That’s why I mentioned their collective guilt – I don’t believe for one minute that they don’t feel a sense of responsibility for Caylee’s death but they aren’t going to say that to us. I abhor their actions, truly, but I can also say that they are flailing, lost people whose lives are destroyed, IMO. Also, the finger pointing they’ve done at others is beyond vile, IMO. I wasn’t trying to excuse anything – just throwing out my thoughts.
Blink, Silverspnr, Maura, Kleat, etc. All of you sleuths:
Please look at this, I know it is just info off the web, and you all seem to know so much more detail than I, please just check it out, Does this show premeditation? Or is it just hooey?
oops, forgot to add the link
http://marinadedave.wordpress.com/
thanks for looking for me.
I truly believe that cindy knows that casey did kill caylee. Remember cindy made the comment that casey betrayed her, after all she had done for casey.
Also how in hell can they Justify caylee being with the nanny so much if casey had no job to pay her with. come on no one’s that nice to do it for free. In one of the pictures of casey in court I noticed her demeanor to be subdued/depressed. I think she at times believes she is smart enough to pull it off and other times she knows that there is so much against her. Her attorney is giving her false hope.
the anthonys changed the website for the caylee anthony foundation. How can these idiots justify a foundation for missing children!! casey killed caylee!! do they think that the public opinion is going to change to their benefit? or are they just in search of donations to support their life style since neither is working. so lee came clean I wished I knew if he told the truth. the anthonys have themselves incrimated casey by different comments made to the police themselves. how can they erase that. the accusations against Jesse Grund will not stick. she is vincdictive B!!!
WONDER HOW SHE SPENDS HER DAYS!! I visualize her pigging out all day!! by the time she goes to court we wont be able to recognize her!!she will look all bloated. what happened to size 2 hmm perhaps it will turn to an extra 2 making it 22.
Blink do you know if the relationship between Shirley and Cindy is strained? I am kind of wondering how that dyanamic is working since I am sure Cindy knows all about what Shirley told LE.
Jan & Bluewillow, Thank you for your insights. The distrust Cindy displays toward law enforcement could simply be a case of transference, whereby one transfers one’s own psychoses onto others. Perhaps George Anthony’s experience as a police officer may have skewed both of their views of LE. There could be a reason GA is an “ex” cop.
As to Casey’s violence reflecting poorly on Cindy…. Casey is a sociopath. Yes, Cindy is a manipulative woman. But before this happened, she did speak with her nursing coworkers about what a drain financially Casey and Caylee were on them. She did not project perfection.
This woman kept a nice home, showered her granddaughter with love, support and nurturing. She did the same for her husband, son and tried to do it for her daughter. She must’ve been terribly frustrated by what a devious, thieving POS Casey turned out to be. Cindy just wanted her daughter to be a good person, a good mother and a taxpaying, contributing member of society. You know, someone productive. What mother doesn’t want that?
Cindy was such a person before Casey destroyed everything. I hate the decisions Cindy, George and Lee Anthony have made to defend Casey regardless of her guilt. I keep wondering who’s seeking justice for Caylee in that family.
It still makes no sense to me that a former police officer’s entire family distrusts law enforcement. In fact they hold law enforcement in contempt. Why? They needed them to help them find Caylee when they still believed she was alive.
Of course, me? If I had the history of mothering the lying Casey for 20+ years, after I smelled the dead body in my daughter’s impounded car, located my daughter who was safe and sound but my granddaughter was missing; I would have called 911 to arrest my daughter, too. Not for stealing a car, but for suspicion of murdering my granddaughter.
This isn’t really all that difficult. Casey has lied to EVERYBODY her entire life. The last time Cindy was with Casey she had confronted for stealing money & checks from her grandparents and they had a huge fight about it. Cindy should have known the truth the day she found Casey safe and Caylee missing.
Bluewillow and FairWitness,
Unfortunately for me, I can’t view Cindy Anthony as the benign personality both of you seem to.
I suspect for all the giving she was doing for all members of her family, she was exacting a heavy price. If Cindy was truly a benevolent angel, just wanting to give and make everything perfect and right for her family, I don’t think we’d see some of the behavior we’ve seen from George or Casey.
And while I do think Casey’s a sociopath, and might’ve been born with that inclination, I think being raised by the Anthonys set her dark inclinations on fire.
Casey was not raised in a vacuum. In fact, until mid-June 2008, Casey never lived a moment of her life out from under her mother’s thumb. To separate Casey from Cindy and assume nothing Casey has done is tied into Cindy in any way, is not something I can fathom. Those two are deeply entrenched in some horrible, deadly game.
If I were to choose a place to lay blame, under the circumstances, I’d have to choose Cindy. She was the adult, the parent, the controller of the household, and therefore the logical choice to try to bring order to the chaos in their lives. I don’t think that’s where her interests lay … until it was entirely too late.
#313 kosmo. One other thing while were on the subject of cindys my caylee is missing comment on 7/3. Where she is making digs about supporting caylee. I have never believed that geo and cindy ever believed casey worked. They knew she did not. The m&m depos with geo and cindy proved that to me I was not alone in thinking that. Casey was a stay at home mom its obvious. So who did casey say caylee was with when cindy asked? The babbysitter, riiight.
She didn’t call 911 till the 15th because that is when they got the car back.. That is when reality hit. JMO
296 Blink
The Zanny story started before July 3 per Cindy’s Gentiva co-worker Debbie Bennett’s November 24 testimony. The timeline she gave OCSO was consistent with the “Zanny” timeline Cindy provided to LE. Debbie said Cindy told her that Zanny, Casey, and Juliet were in Tampa and were coming home on June 23 but then Casey called about the car accident. The next day, Casey returned for the insurance card [which would be Tuesday, June 24, the day George said he got the gas cans back from Casey when she ran into him unexpectedly].
Debbie: She had some business at Universal Studios, was gonna, was going to Tampa, um, on business with um, supposedly Zany and someone else. I think there were three girls. And they were gonna stay there for work during the week and then that Sunday was their last day. They were gonna pay for hotel on their own, do the parks, and then come home.
So she was excited just for them to come because I guess she hadn’t seen them in a while. Um, so um, that Monday when they were supposed to come home Cindy said she thought she had a hunch that something was wrong. And then all of a sudden that afternoon her daughter called and said that there was a car accident and that um, her friend got in a car accident and was hospitalized. And that she was gonna stay until the girl’s mother got there. And that they were fine, they were in the hotel, and the other friend was watching her daughter plus the other friend’s daughter. There was apparently three girls and two little girls.
OCSO: Uh-huh. (affirmative)
Debbie: Yeah. And always referred to Zany as um, the babysitter, just Zany.
OCSO: Did she say anything or did Cindy say anything about Caylee . . . or Casey coming back for a day saying she had to pick up something or . . . .
Debbie: She um, she was upset because apparently her daughter had come back um, I want to say that Tuesday [June 24]. And come back into the Orlando areas because she had to pick up the girl’s um, um, insurance card. And she’d come back into the area and she said to her daughter, why didn’t you bring Caylee with you? And she said, no I just left her in Tampa; she’s having a good time at the hotel. I left her there. So she came supposedly came to Orlando and went back to Orlando for supposedly this insurance card.
OCSO: Came to Orlando going back to Tampa?
Debbie: Tampa, excuse me.
Debbie’s recollection that Cindy was angry on Tuesday, June 24, because Casey had driven back to Orlando to pick up Zanny’s insurance card but left Caylee in Tampa is consistent with George’s account of seeing Casey that afternoon and getting the gas cans back from her. He said Casey had given him a song and dance about needing to get Zanny’s insurance card, and George said he asked Casey when they (he and Cindy) were going to see Caylee.
I don’t believe Casey would have gone to the house had she known George was there, but George said he had met Cindy at the Bank of America to deposit their IRS stimulus check and gone home to get ready for his interview that afternoon with Andrews International. Casey’s ping at the Anthony house was at 2:42pm, well after the time that George typically left for work. I believe George’s car was in the closed garage, and when Casey opened the garage door electronically and saw George’s car, she decided it would be best to go in quickly and make up a story about the insurance card because it would have been far more suspicious had she reversed the door and driven off (something George might have seen her do).
Casey’s final ping off an Anthony tower that afternoon was at 2:55pm, so it was a length of time consistent with George’s statement that Casey said she only had ten minutes. George must have called Cindy immediately after Casey left because Cindy called Casey’s cell phone at 3:15pm for a five-minute conversation. I can’t imagine Casey would have antagonized Cindy by claiming to have driven to Orlando that day without bringing Caylee unless she had run into George.
As I see it, everything fits George’s account of the afternoon of Tuesday, June 24 when he said Casey returned to the house, was surprised to find George there, said she only had 10 minutes to grab some clothes, and then rudely returned the gas cans when he forced her hand by going for the trunk.
Incidentally, Debbie didn’t mention anything about the gas cans in her OCSO testimony, so she either didn’t think to mention the incident or Cindy left that part out of the story. I vote for the latter since I don’t believe Cindy wanted to go so far as to tell Debbie that George had filed the burglary report only to discover hours later that his own daughter was the burglar. Debbie did recall that the gas can theft occurred a couple of days after Cindy told her about finding the pool ladder up and gate open, so that is consistent with the pool ladder episode occurring during the week of June 16.
***
Re: The night of July 3
Casey had apparently invited several people to the Dragon Room that night, one of them, Jonathan Lorentz, via Facebook. Another person who mentioned Casey’s Dragon Room invitation was Maria Kissh, but she didn’t say how Casey had contacted her. Casey sent a text message to Troy Brown at 7:45pm on July 3 saying, “You and Melissa are coming to the dragon room.”
It was by looking at Casey’s Facebook and MySpace pages that Lee learned where Casey was going to be that night.
As Michelle Murphy old Detective Yuri Melich on January 19:
Michelle: Um, Lee had done some sleuthing on Facebook because she had been laying pretty low.
Melich: Why, why was he doing that?
Michelle: Because nobody had, nobody had talked to Caylee. And no, well first of all nobody had seen Casey in quite a while. And nobody had talked to Caylee in weeks and so Cindy was starting to freak out and Lee kinda got. I guess, the brunt of that and, and decided to kind of take matters into his own hands. And so he was gonna try and confront, um, Casey and just try and find her . . . Lee was sleuthing and found out she was gonna be at the Dragon Room and so he had asked, ym, he had gotten like one of his friends to go, had asked Brian if he wanted to go. Brian called me and asked me if I wanted to go and I was gonna go but then I just decided I didn’t wanna go downtown. And then, I guess, Mallory went and they were all gonno go and get Casey and just get, take, get her, take her, you know. And she had apparently caught wind that Lee was coming and she, she just, she bolted, you know. And then via some text messages from, between Mallory and Casey, um, you know, she was like, “I don’t wanna see anybody and I don’t wanna see my brother.” And, you know, “I had to go,” and, you know, and Mallory was just like, “Look, you know we love you and we just wanna see Caylee, we just wanna make sure she’s okay.” And she’s like, “She’s fine,” you know.
“Getting Casey” is the phrasing that Troy Brown used in his OCSO interview of July 25: “Uhm, we, I don’t, I, I didn’t know what the content of the calls were. But she was visibly upset and said that her brother was coming to get her and she just wanted to get out of here. And then we uhm, we left after that.”
However, hauling Casey out of public buildings when Cindy is furious is apparently an Anthony family tradition.
Earlier in the interview, Michelle told Yuri Melich that when Casey believed she was pregnant (or said she was pregnant) with Brandon Snow’s child in the spring of 2007, Casey didn’t dare tell Cindy, but Casey did confide in Lee. When Lee broke the news to Cindy . . . .
Michelle: . . . Cindy was pissed, like way pissed, way pissed, like furious pissed.
(snipped}
Melich: . . . when Cindy found out did she like go grab her out of a restaurant or something?
Michelle: Supposedly I heard that she took her out of a, a TGI Friday’s.
Melich: But you weren’t there?
Michelle: No, I was not there . . .
Melich: You just heard about it
Michelle: . . . that, that time, no.
Melich: Who’d you hear it from, Lee?
Michelle: Uh, Lee.
This is a fairly violent family, and I believe Lee was staging the same type of intervention on July 3 that Cindy had staged when she heard Casey was pregnant again. I don’t personally see anything in what Michelle or Troy said to indicate that the Anthonys knew Casey had lost the Pontiac. Lee was apparently trying to find Caylee so that he could see her, and if Casey wouldn’t cooperate, he was going to haul her home from the Dragon Room so that Cindy and the rest of the family could force her to produce Caylee. I don’t see how the Pontiac figures into the situation at all. If she got to the Dragon Room in someone else’s car, then she could figure out a way later to get back to wherever she was staying. If she had the Pontiac at the Dragon Room, she could get a ride back there to retrieve it after the Anthony intervention.
On July 3,
Cindy was on her fourth day of vacation and still had not been allowed to see Caylee. Cindy called Casey’s cell phone six times between 8:16am and 11:51am (all calls less than a minute).
Cindy called B Coop at 11:52am (about 15 seconds). I have no idea who B Coop is, but the name and number are on Casey’s cell phone contact list.
Cindy called Casey again at 12:11pm (1.17 minutes)
Casey’s cell records show Cindy tried to call her at 12:32pm (0 seconds)
At 2:09pm, Cindy’s transponder hit the Conway toll on 528 westbound (heading for Universal Studios).
Casey’s cell records show she “missed” a call from George at 2:39pm
Casey’s cell pings show Cindy sent a text to her at 2:50pm (Casey answered at 2:57pm) and Cindy sent another at 3:00pm, which Casey responded to within a minute. This is when Cindy said she arrived at Universal and called Casey from the parking lot, saying she wanted to see Caylee. This was when Casey told Cindy that she and Caylee had been in Jacksonville since the beginning of the week with Jeff.
When Casey received Cindy’s text at 2:50pm, she was 6.6 miles west of the Anthony house driving Tony’s Jeep. As soon as Casey knew Cindy wasn’t home, Casey made a beeline for the Anthony house. At 3:20pm, Casey was hitting the main Anthony cell tower, then at 3:21pm, she called Cindy’s cell phone for a 17 minute phone call. By the end of the call, she was hitting a tower 1.5 miles from JP’s condo.
When Cindy got home, she noticed Caylee’s Teddy bear was missing as well as some of Casey’s clothing. Casey told Cindy that Juliet had gone to the Anthony house to pick up a few things for Casey.
Did Cindy believe Casey? Of course not. Cindy called Ryan Pasley, Casey’s friend who lived in Jacksonville to ask if he knew Casey and Caylee were in town. Ryan said no they weren’t and that Casey had told him that Caylee was with Cindy at the beach for the week. That’s when Cindy vented to him about Casey’s stealing and lying and advised him to avoid Casey because she was a sociopath.
Casey’s cell records show she “missed” a call from George at 5:15pm.
According to Lee, Cindy called him to say that Casey had not been home for two weeks. Lee looked online and saw that Casey had left a message on a friend’s MySpace or Facebook saying she would be at a party at the Dragon Room in Orlando (not in Jacksonville as she had told Cindy). In Annie Downing’s ZG depo, she said around this time period, Lee sent her a MySpace message saying Cindy & George hadn’t seen Casey or Caylee for a while and wanted to make sure everything was okay; he asked Annie if she’d seen them. She hadn’t, but she sent a text to Casey, who responded that her parents were crazy and she talked to them everyday. Annie told Lee they were fine. At 5:25pm, Casey receive a text from Annie Downing and they exchanged a few messages.
At 5:30pm, Casey received a call from Ryan Pasley (0 seconds)
At 6:57pm, Casey received an 11-minute call from Cindy’s cell phone
At 8:07pm, Cindy called Fusian Ultralounge from the Anthony landline (15 seconds)
At 8:08pm, Cindy called Fusian Japanese Restaurant from the Anthony landline (40 seconds)
At 8:10pm, Cindy called Lee from the Anthony landline (2.6 minutes)
At 8:17pm, Cindy called Brittany Scheiber from the Anthony landline (10 seconds)
*I think Cindy was looking at Casey’s MySpace herself, and that is why she called Fusian and also probably why she called Brittany since Casey had invited Brittany to Fusian via MySpace on the previous three Fridays.
At 8:44pm, Cindy opened a MySpace account, left the “My Caylee is Missing” message and sent Casey a MySpace friend request so that Casey would read the message.
At 9:03pm, Cindy called Lee from the Anthony landline (almost 5 minutes)
At 9:09pm, Cindy called Casey’s cell from the Anthony landline (less than a minute)
In his ZG depo, Lee said he and a friend went early to the Dragon Room and waited for Casey while looking for anyone she might know; he said he didn’t see anyone. Lee said someone who knew Lee was at the Dragon Room looking for Casey must have called Casey and let her know that Lee was looking for her. He said he was keeping Cindy updated through the night and began texting Casey after midnight; she claimed to be in Jacksonville and he told her no, he knew she was in Orlando; Casey refused to budge and insisted she was in Jacksonville. Lee said he looked for Casey until 3:00 am in the downtown Orlando area, going to multiple places looking for her, but never found her. Cindy told him to stop looking for Casey because she, Cindy, would handle it.
When Lee looked at Casey’s MySpace the following day, July 4, he saw that Casey’s comments and messages from late April to July 3 had been deleted.
At 9:42am on July 4, Casey received a 31-minute call from Cindy’s cell phone.
Maura, forgive me, I never skip over a post of yours and I want to read this thoroughly and am on a deadline on another case, I did however, want to post it for the benefit of the other readers in the interim. I will come back to it at my first oppty.
B
Sorry kosmo, I just don’t buy that they did not think anything was really wrong until 7/15. Nuh uh
Rein, that was some good stuff. Just think if the “thing” that was snatched from her purse was a fake driver’s license in the name of Zenaida Gonzalez. Premeditation all right. Lori, I was just throwing my thoughts out as well. I can understand the flailing and all but it’s been over a year now and they are consciously profitting from the death of their granddaughter. I think they are completely over blaming themselves and that disgusts me.
There’s no doubt that they thought ‘something’ was wrong before 7/15. But IMO they did not go down the road of ‘my granddaughter is gone forever’. They were in deep deep denial. It is evident to me IMO – they were in distress and performing mental gymnastics in order to keep themselves sane. I have a lot of sympathy for these grandparents and will not judge them in their early denial (before a body was found). However, I have lost respect for them since then. They really could have had public sympathy if they had not been so incredibly difficult to identify with.
Hello Everyone,
Just a quick question.I keep seeing that a lot of people here call casey a sociopath,Comment #327 said casey is a sociopath, has casey been diagnosed with this? Could someone please tell me where i can find that information i am very interested in reading what it has to say.I have looked thru a lot of the documents and i cant seem to find it.. Thank you.
A couple of thoughts – I think Cindy finally on the 3rd added up a whole bunch of things that made her panic. 1) Casey’s lies about where she is Jacksonville/Orlando. 2) Cindy realized that Casey had been stealing money instead of working 3) There is no way Casey had enough money to buy gas to go from Orlando-Jacksonville-Orlando-Jacksonville. She was so broke she was stealing gas & food 4) Casey would not turn down an offer to babysit 5) Her myspace page showed she was partying it up and Lee would have seen that 6) There was nothing taken from the house for Caylee like clean clothes, etc…
This is the same time Cindy posted her cryptic message obviously to Casey. Casey’s obvious ‘reply’ is very telling about their close yet dysfunctional relationship. They used euphemisms in order to communicate anything uncomfortable to each other.
A couple of questions – 1) Do you guys think that the Anthony’s are profiting more than just being able to pay bills and how/how much? Blink described ABC’s deal for attorney’s fees but how are the Anthony’s getting by day-to-day? Casey’s defense has had to run into $1M plus by now. 2) The defense ‘seems’ very confident – do you think there is a surprise coming from them?
Once again, Maura’s post so tells the story as its happening.
I truly believe Casey had no idea how sophisticated and technically sound LE was.
I think LE was just “humoring” her in that interrogation where they said that she seemed like a very intelligent woman. I beg to differ. Writing in a diary about your criminal exploits and then saying you hope the end justifies the means, not even a 10 year old who had been raised by Jerry Springer wouldn’t leave that sort of incriminating evidence
Blink,
After reading Maura’s incredible rundown of the events of July 3rd and into July 4th, I now see why you think G&C found something in their backyard — or somewhere — on the 3rd.
As an alternative to that, do you think it’s possible, knowing their daughter’s dangerous behavior as well as they did, all the FIND CASEY activity on the 3rd was just the culmination of not having seen Caylee nor heard her voice in over 2 weeks? I would think their fairly intimate knowledge of Casey’s escalating bad behavior would have started the *worry clock* on June 15 or 16, and 2+ weeks later and still no contact with Caylee could’ve put them (or Cindy, at least) round the bend.
Maura does an outstanding job recounting the multi-channel facts in this case, I agree and applaud her. That said, we must remember that these facts are open to more than one interpretation at times for the moment because we are using them as a basis for speculations of our own.
I stand behind my opinion that something was discovered on the 3rd that “amped” the need for finding Casey/Caylee. Recall that at the end of the exchange, which went on several hours, Casey was only texting with Mallory on her phone. We dont even know if her and Lee were together at the time. Remember Rozzie Franco and BF interview..
B
B
I feel sorry for the grandparents not cindy and george but for the actual victims being! cindys mother and father.
casey stole from the grandfathers assisted living account!! those are the real victims. I recall casey asking her mother once during a jail visit !!ASKING hows grama doing!! I have been worried about her. Casey has never cared about anyone but herself. she is pathetic.!!
P.S mindyou her grandfather is in a assisted living facility and very sick and frail. these are old folks !! she victimized!!!! The grandmother was irate with her. Grama called the house to talk to cindy and casey answered the phone and casey goes hi grama! well grama said I dont have nothing to say to you let me talk to your mother how dare you steal from us.
steph good point!! I wonder that myself
blink???? is cindy and her mom’s relationship strained. I know shirley talked to le and also shirley didnt sit with the anthonys at the memorial.
I do know that Rick plasea cindys brother is not talking to her.
http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2009m8d4-Exfiance-Jesse-Grund-caught-up-in-Casey-Anthony-case As Jesse Grund’s father, Richard, read through the evidence released by prosecutors in the Casey Anthony case, he was amazed that about half of the 1,406 pages released consisted of his son’s personnel file when he was an Orlando Police officer…
Grund told Fox 35 he was asked to pass on a message from his son. “He said ‘point out to them there is now more information out there on me than there is on Casey. They don’t have her transcripts or credit report.’”
Very good point there.
Todd,
I don’t believe the diary entry was written in 2008. OCSO took a picture of it because it reveals her general mindset, but they didn’t take the diary into evidence, which is a powerful clue that it was not written after Caylee’s disappearance and will not be used in the trial as evidence of her guilt in Caylee’s disappearance. If they believed the diary entry had been written in 2008, it would in a forensics lab right now, and the ink would have been tested for dating. The diary is currently in Brad Conway’s office.
LE also took a photo of a page in a parenting book that had been bookmarked at a section dealing with tantrums. They didn’t take that book, either.
Yippy skip, we agree! Although I think it was more of an exemplar of her handwriting, and well, that is not the only entry in there. Wink
B
#328 Jan, actually I think we pretty much agree. Cindy’s dysfunctionality is responsible for most of the ugly mess this case has become and I have to suspect it is what formed Casey’s character to what it is also.
They say that we tend to revert to the coping mechanisms we developed in childhood when we are thrown into stress. If the way cindy has responded to these events is how she has dealt with things throughout her life (deny, cover up, ‘fix’, interfere, control, become hostile, accuse innocent people), you have to wonder if that is how casey ended up the way she is.
Much as we love our kids and don’t want to see them suffer or be sad, we have got to realize that the development of their character is more important than their entertainment, enjoyment or comfort. If the way that Cindy is dealing with Casey’s crime today is the way she dealt with Casey’s misbehaving when she was growing up, then it explains how they got where they are today.
That said, I do think that Cindy loves her children and loved Caylee, and maybe has no clue why things have turned out like this or why the world is disgusted with her. She seems incapable of seeing her own dysfunction.
Autumn #335, I’m not aware of an official dx of casey being a sociopath; I am just calling a spade a spade as to what is obvious. The signs are all there.
I have a question?
I thought that the white pontiac car that casey used belonged to cindy. that is why she reportorted it stolen? true or false?
Blink, how do you think Baez and Casey will be able to “explain” away her getting a tattoo, of all things saying it’s a beautiful life, immediately following Caylee’s disappearance when she claimed she had been searching and being “frantic”? Also what is puzzling is her statement of “I decided to go to a neutral place”. What does she mean by “neutral place”? As though her “neutral” place would be of any benefit to searching for her “missing” daughter
Bluewillow #345 …
Well said. I agree.
Blink,
Your response to #339 –
Agree that a great majority of the discovery is open to interpretation.
I found the BF interview (http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Portwood,%20David0912.pdf) and mention of the phone call with Rozzie Franco (http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155354.pdf) (page 50). But I’m afraid I don’t understand the significance of Casey texting with Mallory on the 3rd and how that ties to the Franco and BF interviews. BF seems to have remembered things differently from Rozzie, and the waitress claims not to have said what Rozzie claims she said.
I’m lost!
to jesse ala his message thru his dad,yes i wondered where casey’s fbi interview is too! she did do one right?BUT jesse the police have let go of your evidence and look so has the public,there still holding casey’s ,we notice.gettin rid of the frivol