New Clues In Kyron Horman Search: Fact or Fiction- You Decide
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Portland, OR-Over the last week, much information has been developed about the extended families of Kaine and Terri Horman, and the circumstances with which Kyron came to reside primarily with them, visiting Mom and step-dad Desiree and Tony Young on monthly visits.
One thing that is not clear however, is how Terri Moulton Horman’s oldest son, 16 year old James, came to live with his maternal grandparents after living with the Horman’s until this past January. He now lives with his biological father who gave up his rights to him to Terri’s second husband, who stills pays child his support.
He is believed to have been on a Boy Scout camping trip with his father Ron Tarver and his half-siblings the weekend Kyron went missing.
By all accounts, and certainly by all photos, James and Kyron were *tight* brothers from another mother.
Although it has not been confirmed by Multnomah County Police, it is believed that the focus on Sauvie Island, and the surrounding area is related to cell phone pings from Terri Harmon’s phone the day of Kyron’s disappearance on Friday June 4th. According to family friend, Terri was asked to take a second polygraph this past Saturday, and was frustrated and tired at investigator’s questions as “she was where she says she was.”
BlinkThink: An Investigative Editorial Of Sorts..
Frequently, in our team’s development of information and analysis on the cases I feature, readers and listeners ask my opinion on several items of information that I may not be prepared to release out of context. In some cases, they are working theories. It is however, how we handle our “war room” and take raw data to reportable data. This case continues to baffle so many, I thought I would take this opportunity to show our readership how we work behind the scenes. Pardon grammar in advance, these are actual excerpts from our collective work stations.
For obvious reasons, this is the collective work of the editors of blinkoncrime.com; the “raw” we discount or scrap is not included.
Priority Lead #1
Tanner Pumala, 8 year old desk-mate of Kyron Horman, was the last person to see BOTH Kyron and Terri Moulton. He is his self-professed best friend, and also his neighbor. His grandmother, Wendy Fuhrer, allowed him to speak to the press, although she was specifically asked not to. As he is a minor, it would require a signed release from his parent or guardian.
Finding of Facts:
No mention of his Mother, Lisa Fuhrer Pumala
Tanner’s account states that the substitute noticed Kyron was missing from the headcount. He said she alerted the regular teacher, Ms. Porter, who told her he was probably in the bathroom.
Subissue for Flagging:
There was NO substitute that day. She had been there Monday through Thursday. Why would he offer that specific account, and simultaneously say that Kyron told him he was headed upstairs to the “cool electic one”? As his deskmate, wouldn’t he interject that information?
He was interviewed by BOTH the FBI and MCSO, and asked not to release his information, but did anyway. Who or what really prompted this?
He remarks he did not see him on the bus, so the day goes by, including the talent show, with no further discussion of Kyron although he would not have been in the bathroom for several hours.
However, he states he was not aware Kyron was missing until that evening, when his DAD saw it on the news.
(Jason Mateos Notes: Could the duo simply have wandered outside together at the prospect of catching a live frog for the exhibit and accidentally fall in the pond and the child is scared.
Blink Response: Plausible only if Tanner unaccounted for, the pond is across the street, and they literally would have to go out of the parking lot, which was heavily occupied at the time. Project next to his is Pond Turtle, however.
The Fuhrer residence, on the market since April 2010, borders the Horman property, and extensive search efforts covered this property. Their is a white truck and camper located at the residence in the photos of the listing.
Brian Pumala, Tanner’s father is a plumber and recent electritian apprentice through JATC. He resides with one Ann Pumala on NW Mill in a houseboat on the channel. Quarry Rd, is directly behind his residence as well as the Quarry that was searched initially.
Finding of Fact:
From Blink notes: Pumala address is on Sauvie. In particular it is the start of the original start area for which MCSO requests video footage, and it has direct access to the channel, which has been a heavy search point.
Additionally folks– we have the investigative equivalent of “the closest distance between 2 points” here. Gram or “mom” Pumala is neighbor to Ky.
Non-custodial Dad, a former neighbor and presumed aquaintance, lives withing the perimeter of the focus of most of the search efforts, AND the alleged cell pings.
Priority Lead #2
Kaine Horman Email:
From: Horman, Kaine A
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 8:39 AM
Subject: FW: Kaine Horman’s son is missing
All,
If you have seen local Oregon news or been browsing the internet or FaceBook there is a good chance you have seen an article similar to the one that Becky forwarded (below). While this note is difficult for me to write in this state of mind I felt it necessary for Kyron’s sake.
Optional actions for you:
The Intel network is large and wide-reaching. Many have asked me what they can do to help us and my answer is the following:
1. Forward Kyron’s information to as many people as you feel comfortable with; the more people that see this will increase our chances of finding him
2. Do not speak to any media if contacted; I am trying to contact Intel legal to give them the heads up and help with this situation
Physical description at the time of his disappearance (picture is show in Becky’s note and here):
He is 3 foot 8 and 50 pounds, with blue eyes and brown hair. He was wearing black cargo pants, white socks, worn black Sketcher tennis shoes with orange trim and dark-colored t-shirt with the “CSI” show logo
Police Hot Line Number:
(503) 261-2847
Some rough background:
The article that Becky forwarded is pretty accurate with details. He was dropped off at school about 8:45 and went missing sometime between then and 9 or 9:30am. We did not know he was not at school until we went to get him off of the bus at 3:30 and he was nowhere to be found. The bus driver immediately called the school which responded that his teacher had not seen him all day in class, at which point we notified police in partnership with the school. It is still unknown whether he left school grounds on his own or was abducted. Be assured that there are currently an amazing number of agencies and amount of person-power being applied to the search and investigation.
Thank you all for the thoughts and prayers for Kyron’s safe return. I will update the group once status changes which will hopefully be soon. At the time of this note Kyron has now been missing for ~48 hours; time is of the essence.
Kaine Horman
Enterprise Business Architect
Intel Corporation
JM session notes: Bolded by Me. Dad states he went to the bus stop with Terri. Indicates both vehicles were at the residence, and in working order. What prompted his schedule to be home at that hour, would it be normal? Why is this the only account that features the Dad at the bus stop.
“in partnership” is odd wording. What does that mean exactly?
Priority Lead #3
Terri Horman call to school: When do the exhibits need to be picked up?
Blink notes: exculpatory. If your counting on a timeline that gives you until approximately 3:30PM, why would you risk the potential to raise the flag of Kyron’s absence. He was in fact, marked absent, although his things remained on his desk. SM calls and askes when the exhibits needed to be removed. In my mind, it is to see if she needed to also pick Kyron up that day, as he could not manage it himself on the bus.
Priority Lead #4
The questionaire released by MCSO and the FBI 
blinkoncrime.com editor JM, an experienced investigator and polygrapher, believes strongly there would have had to have been a deceptive response to necessitate a second poly. Blink notes: I believe strongly this is designed to progress leads in this case. My opinion as to “why” may be very unique. It is almost as if they want someone to believe she is a suspect, stopping short of naming her. Could they be hoping for someone to make contact with her. Admittedly, agreed on the deceptive response, but could she have exposed a bad guy to Kyron through her behavior or actions, but had nothing to do with his disappearance? Those images are FBI generated from an analysis they preformed on her behavior, no doubt in my mind.
blinknotes: I believe it possible the questionaire was requested for multiple reasons. Again, I cannot wrap around her. Put plainly folks-her profile does not match up to execution or strategy as we know it. I also believe this is designed to produce 300 exemplars. With the DA present while parents were to drop off their completed questionaires, I again think aloud– is there a convened GJ at the moment, in this case?
Also, what about this– it lets them capture the make, model, and plates of cars coming to the school with completed forms. Does our guy show up at 9am or 6PM on Father’s Day with kid in car, borrowed from someone, or does he send it with another parent?
Actual excerpt in work session:
*warning graphic* professionals need to de-sensatize in order to analyze.
Research/Investigstive Professional: Something is bad wrong is going on inside the Horman home without a doubt. I tend to look at folks who will not talk. Terri is simply acting odd. She has odd expressions. I mean effin odd; a self-centered nutcase. Unequivocally, yes, but she has an extensive track record of caring for kids. I would def buy her having an affair. If this is her, what kind of lame ass plot is this, in the first place. You drug the kid, you take him out on your own damn property, or closest body of water, and call the cops the next morning with your back door open and his foot trail still fresh. Say he has a history of sleepwalking. In that neighborhood, the critters would have him by then ( sorry, I know). This woman spend significant time with the school and his class. She had the baby in there, multiple times, knows all the kids by name. This is where she is going to take every risk and chance to off the child she has cared for since birth with no conceivable motive– no history of mental illness, and a facebook of loving family photos, several of which taken by her of a beaming Kyron? Not feeling it.
That said, it is connected to her in some way. Scorned lover? Unrequited affection of someone at the school? Kyron was chosen because of her?
Priority Lead #5
Terri Horman follows cases like these:
Priority Lead #6
The baby Kiara, was not with Terri and Kyron that morning.
JM notes:
I don’t know where dad was.
I do not know what he drove.
I don’t know when he left.
I do not know when he came home.
I do not know for sure he was even at work but it would be easy enough to document with ID swipes, etc.
I do not know where the baby was.
I do not know who was watching the baby.
I do not know why dad decided to come home early to meet the bus (and even that is in question.)
Where was she and is this normal routine?
Images by Klaasend
Madeline Tanner, and Jason Mateos, contributing editors to blinkoncrime.com
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The kid in the clip is just making himself out to be a bigger friend to Kyron than he is. Typical kid. grandmother probably went public for $$$ when she writes a book or the film comes out – had to interject into the story some how.
Narcissistic personality: a disorder is a condition characterized by an inflated sense of self-importance, need for admiration, extreme self-involvement, and lack of empathy for others. Individuals with this disorder are usually arrogantly self-assured and confident. They expect to be noticed as superior
All the evidence points to the step mother.
1) last one to see him
2) cell phone records show she was on Sauvie Island
3) Can’t explain where she was
4) telling teacher she was taking him to doctor (have LE questioned doctor?) and now saying she meant the appointment was the following week
5) Claiming she gave the substitute??? teacher papers to fill out for doctor appointment??? – lots of discrepancies here – why do teachers need to fill out papers for doctors appointments???
6) police are now searching Sauvie Island to the exclusion of everywhere else (after the first polygraph – which she neither passed nor failed)
7) Police told other parents this is an “isolated incident” and their children are not in danger
8) Little parental involvement / publicly asking media for help to find Kyron
9) friend speaking for step mom
10) friend claiming “she’s a good mother” – no profession of innocence
11) demeanor is not normal
12) mother saying a teacher saw Kyron after step mother left – LE says step mother was the last to see him ???
13) driving the truck not the car
14) truck towed
15) LE not asking if anyone saw Terri (or Kyron) anywhere else that day. Seems they doubt she was even at the school. Why are they not asking if anyone saw her / Kyron / truck at or near Sauvie island that day and are just asking about the school???
Hulagirl says:
June 23, 2010 at 10:02 pm
I also agree with the poster who said a call in the middle of the day to ask when the posters could be removed would only be a call to check if anyone may have noticed him missing.
*********
I heard it was an email, not a call, and I heard it was shortly after she left Kyron at school. Not sure how accurate that was though, may be a rumor. Blink, was it a call for sure, and do we know what time?
****************
To me, all that would show is a concerned parent wanting to make sure she picked up the project that meant a lot to her child. Whether it was a call or email, I wouldn’t think it would point to her checking to see if her evil plan was working-taking time out to call or email the school would just interfere with her time line of disposal of evidence, etc. I wouldn’t think someone in the midst of figuring out how to hide a horrific crime would want anything more to hinder them or confuse them.
I think you would be working on major adrenaline and checking with the school about a project would be the last thing you would think of. I picture someone running back and forth, freaked out, sweating with fear, implementing plans A, B and C, but not sitting down calmly and letting the school know you are wondering about a time to pick up a science project? That would point to a jaded psychopath, but we have no evidence to point to her being one.
At this point, we obviously do not know the truth of what happened-yet, but the fact of this new report Blink and her crew have amazingly put together, with the Pumala family within the search area, with another white truck, whose grandma is the Horman’s neighbor, who have a son/grandson that is Kyron’s friend, whose cell phones would definitely ping to Sauvie Island and who in fact, live there on a houseboat-WOW!
It may be time to entertain the notion that Terri may not be guilty of anything other than choosing to hide some knowledge of something that she shouldn’t be hiding, but that will not, in the long run, make her guilty of anything other than being a bad judge of character, or trusting someone too much who shouldn’t have been trusted at all. JMHO
This link is really fascinating reading about the types of psychopaths:
http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath_2.htm
A woman like Terri, who works in her stepson’s classroom, attends other functions there, takes her kids to the zoo, bowling, out to eat, colors easter eggs with them, etc., seems very unlikely to be able to kill a child and calmly make other plans at the same time, without exhibiting any prior behavior in that direction. Before Terri’s and all other relating facebooks were closed to the public, I went through every, single picture I could find on all of them. They were joyous and happy, and like my own photos-she wasn’t in all of them because she was taking the pictures. Nope, I just don’t see it.
My favorite picture was of Kaine and Kyron coloring easter eggs and they had snacks on the table. Kyron and Kaine were totally cracking up laughing because Kaine had dipped his corn chip into the green dye. So happy then, and so sad now.
16230 NW Sheltered Nook Road is listed as a foreclosure to be sold 7/27/10, according to the website vestus.com/foreclosure. Brian and Wendy Fuhrer are listed as the borrowers.
You sure about that? I have it listed as Steven and Wendy Fuhrer. Sale Date is correct.
B
Please note this picture and the “unidentified man” that the authorities are now looking.
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/22/kyron-horman-update-man-spotted-in-photo-from-stepmoms-facebook-page/
Well it looks like that link does not take you to the page with their foreclosure information. Pffft, I don’t know how to link a page! The old-fashioned method: I just typed ‘Wendy Fuhrer’ into Google search and it showed up. May not amount to anything…but interesting. I can’t tell how long it has been in foreclosure.
It is listed for sheriff sale Jul 27th.
B
In partnership–working as a team–what we agreed the next step was.
@Hulagirl #32: you asked “what are some possible motives for SM? ”
Purely conjecture, of course, and consider that most sociopaths are men, and SM is a woman, but since you asked, I’ll give you one that is missing from your list, and again, pure conjecture:
Kyron simply wasn’t “needed” anymore. He no longer served a purpose. And being the “loving mother” was an act that was taking too much time and getting on her nerves, and ‘giving him away’ wasn’t a viable option.
The sociopath I knew would fake it, then use and discard people like they were Kleenex. He is now pretending to be the loving husband to the wife with all of the money, business is in her name because of his debts/past/illegal status in her country… and he will continue to be the perfect loving husband on the surface (cheating on her under a different name) until until he no longer needs her, and then he will dispose of her by whatever means necessary. I don’t doubt that he could commit murder, although I don’t *think* he’s done it yet. But I saw what he was capable of in his life, and now, sadly, I know that this is how the Scott Petersons of the world work.
Certainly it’s unlikely that Terri is at that level, but under the improbable scenario I described above, Kyron might’ve been just a pawn to get what she wanted (Kaine/baby/money/house/life/whatever else) and now she’s got it all and Kyron was no longer required. Yes, of course, a reasonable person would never do something like that, but I think there are people in the world who don’t make the reasonable choice (I mean, did Scott Peterson have to kill Laci? no.)
First time I’ve read or posted here, but this one is really odd and is starting to vanish from the media, getting hard to find real updates. My questions: Was that the only photo of child and project taken by someone/anyone at that school during the science fair? I see a child and an adult in the background and wondered if someone/anyone may have snapped a photo that may contain some info. Also after reading this page (with best info I’ve seen), it seems like a group is involved, and that kind of money can spread to alot of people. I say that because of the school policy being looked at and covered first.
JR, you certainly don’t think like a woman if you are one. On the contrary, a baby is EXACTLY what would drive some women to an affair. The baby wasn’t newborn either, she’s 18 months old from what I’ve read. I could see a woman who is a SAHM easily becoming overwhelmed with kids and house cleaning, feeling ignored and unappreciated. What better reason to have an affair? Buy the Kyron part? It’s never going to make sense to me if it turns out it’s her. A woman unable to love a child….just hard to take in.
I mean, “But the Kyron part….”
Also – just concentrating on the men, for a change — I want to point out that as brothers, Kaine & Kristian lived together…if one got molested by the G/F, what about the other??? Just b/c one got caught, doesn’t mean the other didn’t do things but not get caught. Wouldn’t their father (Kyron’s G/F) also have been subjected to Kaine/Kristian’s G/F’s molestation ??
About James – as the pics show, he’s comfortable with the baby enough to hold her, be amused by her, & be protective of her…and he seems quite happy with Kyron too….in fact, he probably feels a bond with Kyron & vice versa, since they both visit their “Bio’s”, they both have Step-Siblings, and in the Moulton-Horman home, the baby’s not only the only female, but is also the only one who’s totally “Bio”.
I think it’s possible that James, having step-brothers/sisters who are probably closer to his age living at his Dad’s, give him more of a feeling of belonging & his BioDad & StepMom are younger & more energetic than his Grandparents, so I can see where James would gravitate to his BioDad’s place over his G/P’s….Grandpa’s less likely to go on his Scout Camping Trip, & even if he did, James might feel like he’s the odd-guy for having a elderly man show up as his father figure. I don’t think there’s necessarily a nefarious reason for him living with his BioDad.
Just b/c one got caught, doesn’t mean the other didn’t do things but not get caught. — let me clarify: just b/c Kristian got caught, doesn’t mean his brother didn’t do things, he just may not have been caught yet. Not saying he did, but just saying there’s the possibility, given the family hx & the nature of the molestation cycle.
can we delete Twogs comments?
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947#p/u/1/uZFT8wsfYr0
information in regards to posible photo shop taking place on the pic of this lovely little boy, Blink please your view! thanks!
Wow, Blink, this all feels right. Option #1.
Secondly, I read somewhere, can’t remember where, a questionnaire filled out by Terri somewhere and it had multiple questions regarding their relationship and silly questions including their worst exes. Don’t ask me why. Her answer was basically Kaine had a nutjob for an ex and I had an ex who would never let go. I could probably find if you would like it.
I’m personally opting for unrequited romantic interest theory. I thought it was SM in the beginning, i’m starting to lean another direction.
“Terri’s mother Carol stated in an interview Terri and Kyron hopped in Terri’s car that morning. So did she mean truck and said car or did terri not even take the truck?”
——–
I don’t really find that odd. I drive an SUV and though it’s technically a truck (4×4 even), I often refer to it as “my car”. Could be the same for SM.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“RE: They want video surveillance of the ROADS/Traffic from 6/3 and 6/4.
MCSO themselves verified They were there at the last press conf.
B
BUT WHY??? I am curious to know why they would want it for the day before.”
———
Rumor has it that they were looking for someone who was possibly making a dry run the day before. Perhaps to see how fast one could leave the school, get to the spot where they took Kyron; how much traffic there would be; would they be noticed? Etc.
~~~~~~~~~~
I have one question that is just nagging at me. Supposedly, according to one online source, SM’s friend claims that SM talked to the teacher on Thursday about Kyron’s Dr. appt., rather than Friday morning. I don’t recall seeing this in print, nor in her video interview; did I miss it? And IF she did talk to the teacher on Thursday instead, well I’m not sure how anyone would/could misconstrue the date of the appt. On Friday morning, sure, because there was lots going on with the science fair and talent show later on. But, on Thursday, there wouldn’t have been a bunch of parents around causing a noisy situation; at least, I wouldn’t think so. So, was it Thursday or Friday?
As to SM and Mr. Pumala, well it was just speculation, since it’s obviously a bit of a coincidence that he would be living on Sauvie Island and SM’s phone would ping SI, and that’s where the bulk of the search days have been spent. Otherwise, I can’t see a reason for mentioning that. I can’t see Mr. Pumala taking Kyron for any reason; why would he? Perhaps someone would try to frame him, but they’d need a reason why people (esp. police) would be suspicious of Mr. Pumala, and I just can’t see that there is any. Why would Mr. Pumala harm Kyron, or why would anyone believe he would?
The only remote reason — and I mean extremely remote — would be if perhaps Tanner was with Kyron and kyron had an accident, and his grandmother helped cover it up, by taking Kyron to SI and hiding him there, knowing the blame would maybe get directed towards Mr. Pumala. But why? Because she had animosity for divorcing her daughter and leaving his son behind? I just don’t get it.
As for the “hitting the gym” comment, it definitely wasn’t 5 days after. Message boards were discussing it as early as the early morning hours of June 8th, meaning it was likely posted on the nite of June 7th; which is 3 days later. It might’ve even been less than that, but I’m not turning up in a search for the exact day, yet.
Rumor has it — and I hate how everything in this case is rumors — Kaine was home with the baby girl when SM was taking Kyron to school. So, why, if there were 2 parents, did Kaine not take the baby and go with them to see the other exhibits? I know he’s the one who supposedly helped Kyron with his project, but you’d think he would want to see it all set-up, and to tour around a little with Kyron. So, why didn’t he go? I mean they have certainly taking the baby out for other events, so it’s not like dad had to stay home because the baby did. And why, of all days, wasn’t he at work that day? And why, if both parents were at home, didn’t one of them go to school to get Kyron, rather than leaving him ride the bus? What kid wouldn’t prefer to be picked up by his dad, than ride a school bus?
I just am really confused as to LE’s silence about everything in this case. What would be the harm in confirming or denying SM’s claim that she informed the teacher of a Dr. appt., when that appt. was for, and whether the conversation occurred Thursday or Friday? I mean jeez, surely they’ve talked to the teacher and verified. If indeed SM was accurate and the teacher mistaken, well that’s only a positive thing for SM. Also, why not verify Kaine was at home at the time? It probably wouldn’t help the case, but it would be at least on question that many people have, answered. Why be hush-hush on something so innocuous? If they were trying to catch SM or someone else, Kaine’s being home wouldn’t have any effect on that at all.
And I think that all this keeping quiet stuff is really causing people to look really hard at the family. And blame them. Surely putting some of these rumors to rest would only help the family, and the investigation. Because, I am sure that the tight-lippedness of everyone involved is causing this case to get such limited attention. I mean I am turning on the news every nite and seeing all the minute details of Joran van der Sloot. And yet I have to scour all over the internet for just tidbits of info on Kyron’s disappearance.
I admit, I am highly frustrated. I have come to the point many times with this case of just saying “eff it”, then reminding myself there is some poor little, innocent young boy who is missing and possibly harmed, out there. And so I hang in and read the little info available, and wait, and wait and wait. And here it is almost 3 weeks later, and we know little more now, than we did the day he disappeared. I think LE and the family are doing Kyron a huge disservice by clamming up. It’s barely even on the national radar with mainstream media. Nancy Grace was all over the Caylee and Haleigh stories for months. Greta went all over the place for Natalie Holloway’s disappearance, and for Kyron, next to nothing out there.
So, I am grateful that this site and all of you are keeping this in the public eye; speculating, coming up with scenarios and clues. Without people like you, I think Kyron would’ve already faded, like so many other missing children cases.
On a side note, there’s been speculation that this is a sexual-predator related crime. And I’ve also seen some speculation that Kyron was perhaps “gone” before he even left the school. I’m a complete novice as to any of these cases, but I have to ask, why would a SO kill him prior to leaving the building? Wouldn’t the purpose be to take the child somewhere and have him alive for a while? I have a hard time imagining – and I sure don’t want to — that some kind of assault could’ve happened so quickly on school property with kids and teachers around.
I just remember Couey taking poor little Jessica Lunsford and keeping her captive for days, before…
That’s why I would tend to believe, if Kyron was gone that day, that it was more a matter of him being “gone” being the prime objective, rather than molestation.
Trying to draw a web connecting all the players looks like a game of twister. Who will be the one to fall?
Was Terri’s cell phone in the car/truck while she took the other vehicle? Where was she supposed to be? Did someone else have the truck with her phone in it? Kaine? Someone with the keys to use in case they needed a truck for something and Kaine/Terri was not home at that time. Did she drop the baby off at day care/baby sitter, then take Kyron to school and dropped him and the project off, then admired it, and scooted out so she had time to exercise before picking up her daughter? Maybe she did not have time to stop at all the “Mrs. Harmon, look at this!” exclamations. Kids are starved for attention, more now than ever. Terri seems like she pays attention to children, so would be more susceptible to this.
Is there a parent who is tired of hearing, “Mrs. Harmon this or Mrs. Harmon that”, and is jealous of Teerri’s relationship with said, parent’s child, or feels inadequate seeing all that Terri does with her kids? Terri seems like “Supermom’ to me. Did one of the children come home from school and say, ‘I wish Mrs. H was my mom?’ I have to admit, I was thinking that myself (wishing my Mom did those things with me.)
Do we know how much RE pays for James’ child support? Do we know what his financial situation is?
How does Tanner Pumala’s parents feel about Terri? He does not appear to have that kind of support. What kind of family tells a kid to disobey LE? What kind of parent puts their child’s picture and full name out there?
If we believe his ‘best friend’, the last place Kyron was ‘seen’ is heading off to see the cool electric ‘whatever’. Where/what is this? Who invited him to see it? Who did he run into on the way to/back from seeing it? Tanner appears to have speech problems, could he also have processing problems and mis-heard where this electric thing was? Counld Kyron have said downstairs?
Who is TP calling a substitute? There is a basket on top of the coat and backpack ‘locker’ marked parent helpers, this apparently is a frequent occurrence. Is this who he is calling the substitute and LE and the school are trying to sidestep the issue by saying there was no substitute–not a lie, but a skirting of the issue. After all, TP was specifically ‘ordered’ not to bring this up. It could be a way for LE to avoid any more questions on the topic.
Did TP or his family get paid in any form for his discussion on TV? Money could be the motive for this breach.
How close does James’ maternal grandparents live to James’ father? Could he have been staying with the grandparents until child support issues were resolved. Changing schools in January would not have been a bad thing if it was in between semesters, if both the MGP and BF were in the same area.
What was the class doing between 10ish (end of Science fair) and 1230 ish lining up and getting ready for the talent show, did Tanner think Kyron was practicing for the talent show? There was probably at least lunch, which would have been hectic. Did they change classrooms again for any reason? Did Tanner ask about Kyron again, or was his teacher’s answer sufficient for him and he figure Kyron was okay, or the teacher would have eventually done something. After all, it was her responsibility, not Tanner’s.
#33 minima
How could Terri be playing games at 8:01 am when she was at the science fair at that time?
Actually, we know nothing about Kaine’s routine and whereabouts that day. Just that he says “we” met the bus.
We know little more about Terri – except that she drove Kyron to school, she ostensibly posted a FB pix, and also met the bus. We have anecdotal accounts that she ran errands and worked out.
That’s not very much detail on an uber-important day.
Here’s hoping they were candid with LE.
I have a question that perhaps some more familiar with Kyron’s school can answer.. It has been mentioned that the SM called Kyron’s school during the day to see when Kyron’s project/posters needed to be picked up but wouldn’t the school had given all of the children & their parents that info prior to the science exhibition along with the other info ie: times, places for exhibit etc.. I would have thought that the school in order to have some semblance of order would have made sure they told all of the children & their parents when all of the displays needed to be removed since I’m sure they told them when & where they could put them up..
Certainly alot of Restraining Orders flying around. I don’t know anyone who has ever filed such.
So Terri was married to Ecker, had James. They get divorced, files RO, denied. She marries tarver who adopts James. He continues to pay child support, but ashe then changes his name to Moulton. Anyone else find all that odd?
Then poor Desiree and her restraining order against Kaine. Why would he be able to take her other child anyway? She was granted that one.
Is there physical abuse floating around? And why did James need a name change? Good question. I will say you wonder what the kids have been privy to with all this unrest. Definitely some dysfunction.
Thanks J2K- I feel like I am in class and the teacher is getting ahead of me. lol!
Info on restraining orders in Oregon:
This section defines domestic abuse for the purposes of getting a restraining order.
Domestic abuse is when a family or household member:
• Attempts to hurt you physically
• Actually hurts you physically (intentionally, recklessly or knowingly)
• Intimidates or makes you afraid of serious physical injury (intentionally, recklessly or knowingly)
• Makes you have sex against your will by force, or threat of force.*
“Family or household member” means any of the following:
• a current or former spouse;
• an adult related by blood, marriage or adoption;
• someone you are living with or have lived with in the past;
• someone you have been in a sexually intimate relationship with, within two years immediately preceding the filing of a restraining order petition under; or
• someone you had a child with.**
• O.R.S. § 107.705(1)
** O.R.S. § 107.705(3)
A restraining order can order the abuser to:
• Stop abusing, threatening, or interfering with you and any children in your custody;
• Stay away from your home, school, place of business, or other specified place;
• Leave your home (if you live together);
• Remove personal belongings from the home while police stand guard;
• Have no contact with you in person, by mail, or by phone;
• Pay you emergency financial assistance.*
A restraining order can also:
• Give you temporary legal custody of your children;
• Give the abuser temporary custody (if you request this) dependent upon certain conditions to protect the children;
• Allow you visitation rights to your children if the abuser has custody;
• Give you any other relief that the judge considers necessary to make sure that you and your children are safe.*
• Whether a judge orders any or all of the above depends on the facts of your case.
* O.R.S. § 107.718(1)
•
http://www.womenslaw.org/laws_state_type.php?id=577&state_code=OR#content-4171
Me again,
Do you suppose any of this has to do with the public location that was stated ( I believe a hotel?) to be used to trade the kids off? I wondered about that when I read it, seems like extra work, instead of at each others homes. Are any RO’s still active?
Is it a coincidence that police had stepmom take the second polygraph at the same time of the questionnaire release?
They must have known news about the second poly would cause a stir. Why didn’t they retest her immediately after the first poly?
Could it be that…
1) This is a calculated move by police to paint an image of stepmom as a suspect, either to make her cave under pressure (if she is responsible) or to “smoke out” someone else who is responsible.
2) They have new, and more specific, questions to ask her because they believe she knows more than what she is telling (whether she is responsible or not).
Terri looked like a fragile egg the one and only time she was before a camera. Lean on her till she cracks!!!!
RE: #3 Eloise: My ex and I regularly exchanged our son at a hotel because it was either where we were all staying or because it is guaranteed to be open 24 hours and sometimes we would encounter weather in a winter exchange. No ROs in our relationship. I think the hotel was likely just the most convenient spot in this case.
Hey Luv2sleuth et al,
On that same site, they call her Terri:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2005emcupres.htm
It is very possible that the “Teri” is simply a typo.
I think we need to be a little careful that we do not interpret everything we find to fit our agenda. I find many things not nearly as menacing as many make them out to be. For example:
1. I find nothing unusual about not walking Kyron to class. He was in the hallway of a school deemed safe. Terri had already been in the class that day. There were many times I did not walk my child to class. In fact, I often left once he was in the front door. It doesn’t make me uncaring, unloving or homicidal.
2. I think she mentioned the appt to the teacher because she gave her paperwork. This does not seem odd. If you want paperwork filled out by the teacher, it seems only polite to give her at least a week to do so. I do wonder why the teacher did not question why Kyron was gone to the appt without the paperwork.
3. The older son changing living situations could be attributable to any number of things including:
bullying at school, inappropriate friends, a desire to know his birth father better, involvement in boy scouts – at the right age for eagle, a desire to do 4H, trouble with a teacher or administrator in his old school, the need for a smaller school with individualized programs…. none of these are particularly sinister and I know people who have moved their children for each of these situations.
There are a few things that do trouble me including the odd family dynamics on both sides of Kyrons family as well as the ping story. However, I just wish everyone would be a little more careful not to jump to conclusions based on interpretation.
To Shelly-
I have your data, and will review today.
To All;
You guys have been uber busy with some really long and linky posts, so we have alot to sift through, please bear with me.
Thanks
B
There have been a lot of questions about why Terri was driving the truck instead of the car. My two cents: If they were setting up the frog exhibit that morning, it makes sense that they would want the more spacious truck in which to carry the exhibit, which is rather large.
That and I assume there is a booster and car seat in it, much easier to get kids in and out than a mustang.
B
Lol
Have you seen some of my posts?
Thanks-
B
this story makes me sick to my stomach. This story keeps having severe curves in the road, just like the Casey Anthony story- not good
I am certainly not condoning or condemning anyone’s moral choices, but given the high rate of infidelity in this country, I would be extremely reticent to suggest that having an affair points to a type of sociopathy that includes a desire to harm a child or calculate a child’s disappearance. Different levels of deception and self-centeredness, if you will. I do think it’s highly probable that she was having an illicit relationship (desire to feel attractive again post-partum combined with what I perceive as her boredom as a stay-at-home mom) but am not convinced that that has anything to do with a person’s capacity for criminal behavior. My $.02 for the morning!
In trying to keep up with all the information fact or fiction, I was wondering if anyone has checked stepmoms computer, for sights she may have been chatting on.Maybee she was chatting in rooms,that would have had her chatting with a male,and she was maybee complaining about kyron and her statements were taken alittle to serious,and her chat friend carried out her wishes.
“Until we solve this case, the public does not have a right to know the details. Once we solve the case, they have every right to.”
Quote from Capt. Gates
Link to article: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/investigators_in_kyron_horman.html
I still have to wonder about the statement from the family. It was the one a few days BEFORE Father’s Day and they said something like “this would be the first FD that they would not be able to hug and be with Kyron” paraphrasing.. That set off so many whistles that I thought my head was going to explode. Wouldn’t you be begging for whom ever has your son to PLEASE return him?? Plead over and over that you need your baby to be with you for FD??
IMHO…. They know he is gone.. And have known for quite sometime
I truly love this forum – so many good insights. My view is still that the SM knows something, and the neighbors may be involved since there is a connection to Sauvie Island. Guess that makes Tanner somewhat connected as well. I also saw the video clip of the SM and dad running from photographers as they were leaving the gym. If my son were missing I would have welcomed the opportunity to share his photo and plead for his return. I thought it strange when SM rolled her eyes during the press conference. She likely knows more than she wants to say. It is claimed to be an “isolated event” and no one else is in danger so they likely have a suspect in mind. I think we all just wish the truth would come out. Biological mom’s letter was very touching and I pray for you little Kyron.
Bearlyhere – re: checkbook journalism
(asked:) “… Did TP or his family get paid in any form for his discussion on TV? Money could be the motive for this breach.”
I’m not sure what their motive was for disobeying LE’s request that witnesses not talk to the press, but I highly doubt the Fuhrer-Pumala family was offered money – that’s a huge no-no for credible media outlets, and paying sources is often outright banned by news organizations entirely.
I agree. Although I am told Desiree Young was paid licensing fees for use of Kyron’s images on the Today Show.
B
It eerily reminds me a little of Susan Smith. Her crocodile tears, her story didn’t add up, she lied to the world in front of the cameras. All for the love of another man. I would think that the LE have searched their home, computer, etc… for any leads. If there was another man or if they found something in the home as to her intent or searching online/ talking online. Don’t you think we would have heard about it by now? Don’t you think we would have heard about another man after this time? I don’t know. how about the possibility that she was working with other people? Maybe she was the one that lured him away initially and passed him to someone else.
Or if it was someone else maybe they used psychological warfare to get him out of the school, like ‘follow me quietly no one else gets hurt’ some stupid comment like that. Again, I think of this little boy everyday and night especially because I have a son his age, and pray that he is found safe and sound. All my Prayers.
I have seen in several places that Uncle Kristian is claiming he was abused by his grandfather, presumably as a quasi-excuse for his sexual abuse of the young girl he was recently convicted of abusing. Does anyone know if he really stated this? (Not that we are going to trust the claim of a sex offender, but it could be important).
My understanding is that his grandfather would NOT be the same person who wrote the books about the woods and the red squirrel. Correct? (I think it was Kristian and Kaine’s step father who wrote the books?)
So, who would be Kristian Horman’s grandfather(s)? I imagine there are several possibilities since we know there are step relations here . . .
Paternal Bio dad is Kurtis Mengal
Everything I can find says Steven and Wendy. I wonder if the grandmother is trying to get money for media interviews. Foreclosure would indicate some financial problems.
She was working on a workman’s comp (pun intended) last year, unsure of the outcome.
She remarks openly on her myspace about financial difficulties, yes.
B
i’ve read many different scenarios on this site and they are all really good and insightful, people are really thinking because we all care about the well being of this little boy and why we are waiting to hear as a community more about little Kyron we want to share our thoughts and feelings and come together and most of all we want whomever responsible for Kyron disappearing brought to justice because it appears now he just didn’t wander off.
I feel like even though we are humans we are instintive animals, we all have that little voice in our head that we sometimes listen to that tells us something isn’t right. As adults we are more cogniscent of danger and safety and listen to our instincts to get out of precarious situations.
In regards to little Kyron from day one I’ve wanted to burn hole’s with my eyes through the stepmom, like what did you do?! that was my first instinct. I’ve questioned this first instint over the past 3 weeks and now I’m right back to my first instinct. People have questioned her because she appears stable, master’s degree, good mom but go to the sources the people that know her best and what they feel about her. When people say it doesn’t add up and then re-tract, their first instinct is right usually but we re-tract out of fear of being criticized, judged or doubting ourselves. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck.
People that commit crimes think they are smarter than the rest of us, very narcisstic. Since this is now a criminal investigation the person responsible thinks in fact they have re-invented the wheel and will put it off but the reality is the truth will always come out and the wheel will unravel, something is going to crack sooner or later because the pressure to solve where this little boy is is not going away, as LE said ‘ this will not be a cold case’ and I pray that we all keep demanding answers, questioning and re-questioning and putting the heat on so we bring the ‘bad girls/guys’ to justice.
Jen: I agree. In my mind an affair or infidelity does not lead one to harm a chlid. I don’t believe this had anything to do with an affair or even anyone outside the family. I do not get the sense from Terri that she is heartbroken and pleading for the return of young Kyron; she is simply holding her breath waiting for the ax to fall fearing any statement she makes will trip up her “story”. If Terri is innocent then I implore her to get in front of any camera she can find, hit the street if necessary, but plead with Kyron’s alleged abductor, talk to anyone who will listen and ask them to bring your beloved child home.
I wish the use of truth serum or hypnosis was legal. Could have been very helpful in Caylee and Haleigh’s case and now this one.
B – re: checkbook journalism
(replied:) “…I am told Desiree Young was paid licensing fees for use of Kyron’s images on the Today Show.~B”
Really? Wow. While, technically, that’s different from paying a source for an interview or information, media outlets trying to get a scoop will sometimes claim they’re paying a “licensing fee” for a “photo” in order to get access to a source (and get around the credibility issues that spring up when trading money for said scoop) – in this case, Desiree’s letter.
It’s hard to believe she would take money in exchange for getting her son’s face and her words to him out on national TV…
(Unsolicited Advice for the Young-Horman Clan: Get a publicist. Stat.)
I can’t help but wonder why some are insisting it’s odd that Terri has not gone in front of the camera to beg and plead for Kyron’s safe return. To my knowledge, neither has his bio-mom or bio-dad or step father.
The Step-Dad and Kaine read prepared statements at press conferences, and the bio-mom wrote a letter that was read (not by her) on several news stations, just 3 days ago, 17 days after he disappeared….but I’m yet to see anyone beg and plead for his return.
(Snip for site below)”…Desiree Young, wrote an emotional letter to her son during his disappearance, hoping that he will return someday soon to read it. Young agreed to share the letter with NBC, along with additional photos of Kyron with his family, as part of the ongoing coverage of the case. This is an exact copy of the letter sent to NBC in a Word document…” I believe Blink mentioned hearing Ms. Young was paid for those photos, would it be a stretch to think she was also paid for the letter? If this emotional letter was for Kyron to read when he returned, why did she think it was also appropriate for everyone person in America?
I’m not suggesting Desiree was involved, only pointing out that we seem to be crucifying Terri for actions and in-actions that even his Biological parents haven’t done.
As far as the “Terri isn’t in enough pictures with Kyron” debate…I am not in very many pictures with my kids, my husband is in a lot, and the reason is…I’M the one taking all those pictures. All those lovely pictures of Kyron with his siblings and dad were taken by someone, and I think it’s safe to assume that person is Terri
Also, we heard Terri was taking a second polygraph b/c her “friend” is blabbing about it all over the news, has LE confirmed that? Are we sure she is the only one taking a 2nd poly?
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyrons-mom-reaches-out-with-emotional-letter-96794804.html
@ Jen & GriffyMom:: RE: In my mind an affair or infidelity does not lead one to harm a chlid.
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Wasn’t an affair/infidelity the reason in the Susan Smith case ?
FLGirl,
Not sure if this is correct or not but I read somewhere very early on that the teacher had stated that Terri had mentioned a doctors appt to her the morning of the sciece fair. That is when the teacher last saw Kyron with Terri.
I think they’re asing for video of the roads the day before because the science projects were very likely set up the day before (there wouldn’t be time to do this the day of unless everyone came in at at least 6am) and they want to see who came to the school that day as well….and possibly made a “dry run”.
Terri wrote on facebook “think I might go hit the gym today” around noon on Monday June 7th. I had looked her facebook page up that very morning and saw this post myself.
I’m with you on Mr Pumala…cant really see a romantic attachment there (although there have been stranger incidences). Interesting theory of GMA Pumala involvement… worth thinking about…
J2K says:
I’m not sure what their motive was for disobeying LE’s request that witnesses not talk to the press, but I highly doubt the Fuhrer-Pumala family was offered money – that’s a huge no-no for credible media outlets, and paying sources is often outright banned by news organizations entirely.
Ditto. Unless you’re ABC News and want pics and home videos from the Anthonys. *gulps*
hmm..Why didn’t SM go pick him up from school rather than wait at the busstop for him? One thought….it’s MUCH easier to sound initially shocked on the phone than to believably act that way in person. Not saying she did anything (I hope she didn’t), but there are an astounding amount of little things that coincidentally are very questionable imo.