Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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If you look again at the time line presented for the morning of June 4th, then if Terri did indeed go to Albertson’s or Fred Myers to shop, then she would have had to have taken Kyron with her. This does not seem feasible to me. I know there are those who believe she heinously, gleefully and insanely murdered him in the school parking lot, couldn’t wait to do it because she is a disgusting, horrible piece of dog doo doo, but I have doubts about these theories. I know by writing this I may be accused of being Terri, because, after all, I don’t ascribe to any statements of her being an evil genius.
I understand that we are all extremely angry about this tragedy befalling an innocent, sweet child, but I also understand that we can lose site of our logical sides when buried in hateful emotion.
Supposedly (and I am so sick of having to use the verbiage of possibly, supposedly, could have been because we KNOW almost no FACTS about Kyron’s disappearance) dogs lost Kyron’s scent right after the parking lot. If this is true, then obviously Kyron left the school in a vehicle.
Whether he left with Terri or in someone else’ vehicle, we do not know, we can only speculate.
I have doubts that he left with Terri. I have doubts that Terri planned Kyron’s death. I have to agree with an earlier post by Blink, that this situation is replete with Fargoesque qualities.
I can understand this better as a kidnapping gone bad. I do think Terri planned the kidnapping with someone, Sanchez, or just as likely, someone of whom we have no knowledge. I believe the intense searching and media coverage of the first seven days spooked Kyron’s abductors and he was then either left alone in the woods or killed and disposed of in the woods. I have doubts that Terri was involved in any of the dirty work.
As far as the MFH, I don’t know what to believe. I would need more info to really make a reasonable guess about that one. I have grave doubts about Sanchez’s credibility. Obviously, unbeknownst to Kaine, their marriage was over. We don’t know why, we can only guess. Most bad marriages end in divorce with alimony, child support, etc., not by hiring the lawn boy to murder a husband.
For reasons demonstrated by her constant flirting and the sexting, I believe Terri may have been involved with numerous men on various levels. Whatever her reasons can only be explained by a psychologist, but I think she was attracted to the dangerous, wild bad boys and their ilk. From that I surmise that it could well be she was involved with some seriously bad people. To her it was for kicks, but to him (or them) a lot more was expected and with a shiny red Mustang, a husband who worked for Intel, she looked like someone with lots of money.
I have done some reading on LDTs trying to figure out how you can pass or fail. I mean if you are asked your name and you state it correctly, then that question is a pass. From what I can tell, a percentage is applied to determine a pass or fail. So, she could have said “no” to being asked if she abducted Kyron or killed Kyron, or knew where he was and was telling the truth. On the other hand, if she answered “no” to questions about whether she knew anything about his disappearance, then those would probably register as fails.
I think LE blew it when they included questions about the MFH in the LDT. I think they really blew it with the sting operation. Once she hired an attorney any opportunity to get information from her was closed.
I believe Terri Hormon is ultimately responsible for Kyron’s demise, but that she did not take part in any of the specifics of it.
Ok, the polygragh: used for investagative purpose, no one knows if TH failed the durn thing from the beginning or failed on certain questions, if the MFH was brought up at the time it’s possible she failed at that point and passed everything else. That she “failed” could be all that LE told the parents, again, we’re not privy to that. LE can use polygraphs anyway they want.
I see some people can’t get over the truck…still. I’m still lookin’ for links but I’ve seen press conferences where Kaine himself says that TH took the truck as she needed it, he didn’t really question it and it was NOT out of the ordinary for her to ask for it.
Cell phones….now this is interesting and here’s the link:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100161574.html
As for sociopathic behavior, I said this once and I’ll say it again, we all think she was acting at the first press conference, if she were a sociopath we wouldn’t have caught that act.
I’m gonna repeat something else I said earlier as well….the girl ain’t wired right. I’ll follow that up with this, as of THIS point in time that’s all I know she’s guilty of.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sisters.
PS…ya’ll stop bouncin’ on that limb we’re on!
Now some important timelines can get established, under oath:
KGW is saying that LE asked PPS for a list of employees this week and that several school employees have been subpoenaed by grand jury. Keefer was there today:
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Skyline-principal-appears-before-Kyron-grand-jury-100159649.html
This is great news to me.
@blue: what zeus said.
Your thinking aligns fairly well with mine. Therefore, I have deemed you incredibly intelligent and insightful!
And thanks for taking the time to type out all that.
pdxgirl says:
August 6, 2010 at 9:26 pm
@twinkletoes. One more thing and then I’ll stop bouncing up and down on beejay’s and your limb.
“I still say TH didn’t kill/kidnap Kyron.”
That sounds like a pretty certain statement made by someone who says we don’t really know anything for certain about this case. I don’t really get that. May I ask what evidence you have for making that assertion?
__________________________________________
Absolutely happy to clarify. I am where I am in my belief that TH didn’t do it because nothing has connected her to Kyron’s disappearance yet. The evidence I rely on is inverse–the lack of evidence against her. And prosecution has the BOP. Innocent until proven guilty. I still have heard NO CONNECTIONS between TH’s obviously bad behavior and the missing child.
As I had said before I understand why Kaine needed to move back into “HIS” home but by removing her ~she is “removed from the scene”
she needed to walk past Kyrons room & feel him sitting at the breakfast table eating his cereal~ the kitchen she prepared food for him~ she is displaced from the crime & it will all become a “something” that might have happened in her life because she cannot bond withh people or things ~easy come -easy go
thanks Aibophobia for the GJ link. I read most of it and saved the rest for later.
What I found most interesting about it is that they dont advise the GJ or regular rules of law.
@twinkletoes, I appreciate the advocate within you. What convinces me that it was TMH? At this point all any of us have is circumstantial evidence. I talked to a friend about this recently, one who is uninvolved and whose opinion and reasoning I respect and she also laid it out that it was purely circumstantial. To *me some of the clinching circumstances are her inability to explain her whereabouts the first time that LE asked her about it (pings on sauvie that contradicted her story), in part the dateline interview or whatever where DY said Tony explained their lives would now become totally public, and her defensiveness about the situation. She has so many actions since this all happened that really bring to question her involvement.
While i am not totally convinced, I do not have all the evidence that LE has.
I still find it very plausible that TMH is behind this in some form or fashion.
@cbickel: You said, “As for sociopathic behavior, I said this once and I’ll say it again, we all think she was acting at the first press conference, if she were a sociopath we wouldn’t have caught that act.”
Precisely. That is my professional opinion as well, and I am qualified to formulate one. And this is the first and last time I will ever speak of sociopathy or any other psychiatric diagnosis in this case, because it’s just–well, so unprofessional!
Compare TH at that presser with the eyes of Joran Van Der Sloot. Your differential diagnosis starts there.
I’m calling it a night, but extra cookies for you tonite, cbickel. With or without the…MOO!
Lots of active Guido family Construction licenses on CCB website, all seem active in Roseburg and some go back to the 1980′s. The one I mentioned was the only one that was no longer active, I think over a disputed debt of ~$1,000.
I guess it just caught my eye because he is in the construction/excavation/concrete business (one federal contract involving canals?), went to school with TH, and he and his wife are FB friends of hers. Just dots that probably don’t need to be connected after all.
@Blue–very nicely articulated and reasoned post.
Terri could have so compartmentalized her actions that day that friends would not have had an inkling anything was astray. Folks, there is some level of sophistication and planning at work here. This is not a cat burglar who left a wallet behind.
Absolutely. This is key, great observation.
Did y’all look at the list of LE agencies involved in this case?
Does one fathom the amount of cataclismic forces that would need to occur for this child to be removed from the earth via tractor beam?
Expect an indictment, and a gag order, in the same day.
B
@ Rich~ you are very welcome.
I also found it interesting that those who testify are not sworn to secrecy afterwards, in order to be able to defend themselves.
@twinkletoes, so you don’t see a connection between the confusion about the doctor’s appointment and Kyron’s disappearance? If Terri hadn’t muddled the teacher’s mind re: the appointment, there would have been a call home (perhaps even to Desiree) re: his absence, and there would be a very, very different story to tell.
I understand that you are a lawyer and are perhaps advocating as attorney would for her client in a courtroom. I guess I can appreciate that in theory, but it rubs my “common sense” the wrong way in this particular case.
Oy, and there’s the CSI shirt. I know it is purely circumstantial, but….gawd, it continues to haunt me in a deep, deep way. I typically don’t follow these “true crime” stories, but something about seeing that kid in that shirt on 6/4 got to me. Deeply. I’ve been following the story very closely ever since.
Hi beejay, thanks for commenting on the school landscape project.
Re your comment at 10:58pm August 6. I hadn’t forgotten that Blink said that DeeDee and Rudy might be aquainted. But, DeeDee does not work at a nursery. She is currently unemployed and is involved in a “gardner to farmer” apprenticeship program. It is not a professional apprenticeship per se. The requirement for the apprenticeship is 5hrs minimum garden work per week in exchange for take home produce.
Sorry for not providing links, but if you’d like I can do so tomorrow.
@beejay…oh come on…not one professional opinion about “the chick ain’t wired right.”? lol.
I did take note of all the different agencies involved in this case Blink, which is another reason I’m not on the “TH did it, planned it and ____________ (fill in the blank)band wagon”.
My best guess is that TH messed with the wrong person, Kyron got caught in the middle of whatever it was and is paying for something his step-mom is totally to blame for.
My question to you Blink is do you think this case will grow cold only because of the lack of forensic evidence, ie: a body, or will it grow cold because of the fact that the FBI, secret service, ICE etc are involved?
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
okay if Blink is sayig expect an indictment and a gag order in the same day, maybe Teri isn’t going to be arrested as Teri is not talking as it is?
Isn’t there a finite amount of time that a grand jury can meet before they have to true bill or no bill the case?
22.Novice says:
August 6, 2010 at 8:49 pm
Blink, I read your comment back there that says there’s no way TH did this alone and that’s what complicates the whole thing for LE(paraphrasing). So I’m wondering, in your expert opinion, why the others involved haven’t “cracked” by now? Usually, LE is very good at getting SOMEONE to cough up information, one way or another.
Our unfailing constitution which prevents self-incrimination.
LE is not so great at eliciting confessions from people without declaring them a suspect, er go..
I do not believe TH knows where Kyron is.
I think her story is the landscaper did it, without her prior knowledge or involvement.
This case was investigated as a ransom from day one, there has to be evidence this at least started this way.
B
___________________________________________________________________
Ah..yes…the note in the mailbox, glasses (all rumor) and a member of LE staying with the family for several days. Oh..Perry Mason “where out thou”!!
Don’t forget Terri has been the focus and her behaviour on the day of June 4th was more than a little suspicious. I’d like to know what she was up to prior to June 4th. Someone set the stage for the June 4th disappearance.
Prayers for Kyron.
Expect an indictment, and a gag order, in the same day.
B
Blink, what do you think the charges will most likely be?
Child endangerment? Kidnapping? Obstruction of justice? Murder?
By the time the GJ hears everyone from the school, then stores, then gym, then goes through the boxes of evidence(?) it will be the end of August.
@Kaylee,
Thanks for the link and for the direct quote. Here’s what doesn’t make sense, if you can help on this it would be much appreciated. If the teacher was the one who said he had a doctor appointment, then why did Tanner Pumala say that she told the Science Fair chaperone when she questioned Kyron’s absence not to worry that he was probably in the bathroom or something. This has bothered me from the very beginning.
#
Redrock says:
August 7, 2010 at 12:19 am
Terri could have so compartmentalized her actions that day that friends would not have had an inkling anything was astray. Folks, there is some level of sophistication and planning at work here. This is not a cat burglar who left a wallet behind.
Absolutely. This is key, great observation.
Did y’all look at the list of LE agencies involved in this case?
Does one fathom the amount of cataclismic forces that would need to occur for this child to be removed from the earth via tractor beam?
Expect an indictment, and a gag order, in the same day.
B
__________________________________________________________________
Indeed MS. b and bravo Redrock….
For Terri to pull this off, odds are she had some degree of preplanning; some of which almost certainly involved others. Some knew what was up and others had no clue. Terri would have anticipated extensive scrutiny but maybe not the backlash. Interesting that the very picture she posted as part of this fairly clever plot is what caught my attention way over here in Kentucky. I am sure LE, local media, the community and blogs like this have been equally affected. If we have lost Kyron from this world that handsome boy has already avenged himself, and maybe wrote the last chapter in this nightmare soap opera. Public sentiment and that innocent smile has become the tell-tale heart. God’s love Kyron Horman.
@twinkletoes:
What seals the deal for me is a) the moment I looked at her facebook I thought she was too disconnected; who committs heinous crimes? either people that are diconnected to reality (like crimes of passion) or people that are emotionally disconnected, or both. Now, I am no professional on the matter, but I feel comfortable stating that this is probably pretty true in general. So, that sent a blaring red flag to me. And it went on this way for days. b) The moment I saw her face at the first press conference, it was very odd and uncomfortable to watch her, something seemed really off. Along with DY stiffness I instantly suspected that DY was suspecting TH c) the doctors appointment (premeditation) d) the MFH plot, (she’s obviously not above doing what most of us would never dream of, including harming a loved one, and a person that if gone would bring pain to others, her own daughter being one, her step-son, kyron. The fact that she is obviously concerned with her own needs and outcomes beyond all else. Bascially through this info she has marked herself capable of the unthinkable e) her lack of involvement in the case and early feelings she voiced to family that she felt victimized by the investagation f) her lack of ‘fight’ for her innocence, her daughter, her dignity. g) the need for the truck (which I personally believe was to be less recognizable) to pick up the science exhibit she obviously had no intention of picking up. h) checking in with the school (to “test the waters” imo) about when to pick it up…I mean, why do that if you had just made plans and had a conversation with your husband about needing to trade vehicles to pick the exhibit up, go through with that plan, but not pick it up, then ask about it later that same day? Additionally, KH has stated that he thought TH would stay through the fair with kyron and take it home in the end, but she didn’t stay, she left knowing there would be an hour of unaccounted time before class started. Too many things that speak premeditation, to me.
These are just the things that I can think of off the top of my head. Do I think she acted alone? I can’t say on that. Do I think she harmed him herself, not sure on that either. But I do beleive this was all her doing in setting the whole plan into motion and I do believe her hands were in the pot some way or another beyond that.
If it walks like a rat, scurries like a rat and scavenges like a rat, it’s a rat. I honestly don’t care if I am wrong, TH has done nothing to make herself look innocent or even decent. I just hope they figure out where he is and bring the responsible parties to justice. It’s been too long that Kyron has been alone and lost
S,
I used to believe as you as you say in your Aug. 6, 11:20 pm post:
“I believe Terri Hormon is ultimately responsible for Kyron’s demise, but that she did not take part in any of the specifics of it”
We diverge here. I now believe she had a direct hand in his death and eradication and, very reluctantly I have to say, in his final abuse, as well.
I am so, so sorry Kyron, that no one could protect you.
Blink,
There will be a gag order.
It will make me gag.
To further the case, I will wait.
The Prosecution, not so much. Expect a protest from the media who has gotten used to Florida-style transparency–which they use in the feedlot of public opinion.
From commentary, I think I’ve concluded (for now) that Terri may have orchestrated a kidnapping of Kyron, perhaps to get $$$ from Kaine. She didn’t do the actual kidnapping, but she promised a cut to illegal immigrant (the LS? or employee or family to the LS?). Was there ever a plan to have Kyron return alive? Or perhaps someone got a “better deal” by selling him on the child sex trade market?” Did something in Terri’s plan go terribly wrong? Or did a pedophile whom Terri met through her various sexual partnerships make her an offer on Kyron she couldn’t refuse, or did they take him for a “payment” she never made–maybe a downpayment on the MFH? Perhaps Kyron was alive, until Terri got mad enough at Kaine for taking Kiara?? None of this brings Kyron home…
Blink says: I have answered this question about 100 times, to the extent that I am going to.
One last time: I believe Kyron’s ultimate fate will have been perpetrated via sexual motivation.
———————————————————–
Given the LS’s involvement the only two options I can see are that TH was having an affair with the LS and…
1) she convinced him to help her get rid of Kyron. She did so with the expectation that she would not be involved in the final act. Therefore she can say with certainty she doesn’t know what happened to Kyron and where he is.
2) things went sour. The LS took Kyron in retaliation. TH didn’t perpetrate the crime against Kyron but would certainly be the catalyst for what occurred. Again, TH wouldn’t be able to say what happened to Kyron and where he is.
The big question is what ultimately happened to Kyron? Did the LS go through with it or was Kyron passed off to someone? While it’s beyond my comprehension that someone could harm a child (hence “passed off” noted above-still holding out hope–though one result of “passed off” could mean living hell for this poor child, ugh didn’t want to go there) the reality is that horrifying crimes are committed against children.
Case in point, I came across the following story (sorry if someone already posted this) which is eerily similar: Stepmother appeared to be a good parent by most accounts, child was taken from school at the stepmother’s bidding, involved another person/friend, and 2 failed lie-detector tests. In this case, the stepmother committed the crime herself–in the presence of that friend. I can’t say that TH would/could have done the same.
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20104652,00.html
That friend cracked within 6 days. When more than one person is involved-directly or indirectly-and LE is closing in it becomes a matter of self-preservation, i.e. I am not going down for you. Circumstances aside, it’s only a matter of time, be it 6 days or 9 weeks.
I want to believe in my heart of hearts that Kyron is still with us…so hard with everything that’s come to light so far.
God bless and keep you sweet little boy.
Gang order… interesting…
could this be becasue perps or other parties are under 18 and they cannot release nams to. in the the media?
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100161574.html
5 cellphones were bought — 2 by Dee Dee, 3 by unnamed friend who said she was only trying to be supportive. What is up with these group?!?
I am a loss for words!
Re: Terri’s Diagnoses and what was going on with her.
As a professional, I will probably agree with most of what Andy says. No one can diagnose her without sitting down with her, probably administering scales, interviewing others, getting those records from doctor who wanted Kaine to watch her (that’s serious!) and others and also including her substance use in there. Remember many people have multiple diagnoses, it is frequently not one thing. Generally, we cannot cut open some one for example and point to a psych diagnosis like we can with some physical ones, that is they are more nebulous and professionals sometimes disagree as well. One reason MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) went to DID (dissociative Identity Disorder) is to get away from the sensationalism of the drama of multiple personalities. (It was tried as a defense I believe in some famous old trial, but it was proved the person was faking it). Besides it is just the person and their way of processing things, one person. Which diagnosis is primary also is a good topic to spar on. Dissociation exists in normal people (even miss your freeway exit or street turn? not hear someone who was talking to you as you were absorbed in something) and it exists in varying degrees, so it would be possible for people not to notice someone has this and it is possible that TH has it, but also possible not. These things just aren’t always black or white. The parts wouldn’t need to have names or be switching left and right with drama and shuddering bodies. Look at the split lives of the abusive clergy and boy scout dude and various politicians, they aren’t necessarily DID either. For DID the internal walls are stronger than in the average human, that is mainly it. Most people are unaware of some of their tendencies. Reports of TH’s alcohol use and high BAC with the DUII demonstrate that she probably has a serious alcohol problem or tendency let’s say. The swings of on and withdrawing off substances can create strong moods. All her Internet FBing/texting/sexting and possible sexcapades also add to the compulsive/addictive tendency (which share similar genes from what I read), which would increase under stress. So jes’ sayin’ – it’s hard to pin a label on her now and probably she would get at least a few. A possibility is also to have some degree of psychosis as well, also sometimes hidden from people, though again that could be obscured one way or another by the substances and drams. And yes, somewhere on the depression scale could be likely to some degree again. That’s enough for now – there is much we don’t know.
She probably has a charming personality at times, consistent with many with criminal thinking and can be quite attractive to some. When she is locked up and withdrawn from most of her substances, electronics withdrawn too then her head will be clearer to get worked on.
Marriages die sometimes because people are not willing to work on themselves and the relationship in order to improve things and addict thinking: “ME(as the little kid) NOW.” Some people are not compatible, but they don’t do crazy things or even a lot of drama over it, they communicate and work toward some solution. Doubly so if they have children together.
MOOOOOOOOOOOO All This MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I am sure TH is guilty as I have always been believing Blink and when your stomach churns and your brain feels twisted when you hear all these excuses and craziness and you react with “WTH??” Then you know something ain’t right here.
So she used Rudy to try and get him to do stuff and maybe he wanted more love or sex or both from her, maybe he took Kyron at her bidding or who knows who removed him, but she planned it with all these “co-incadinks,”it’s just too much – the truck that day, the story about doctor’s appt., driving daughter with earaches around, emailing the teacher when to pick up the science project – just go get it? THen there is the behavior after the fact, again in the “WTH?” category for a parent with a missing son.
So Rudy got his buddy( now visiting Sheridan FP) to do something with Kyron? – it is only the details that are missing and the degree of charges. But as I asked before, is there still a bigger piece we are missing? Kyron disappeared through these guys, what else were Terri and some friends? involved in besides FBing and texting while Kyron was in school? the DEA I heard – do they only do drugs? So many options on the details, so little know for the web sleuthers, even less if we didn’t have Blink
CAN’T believe all these ladies got involved too!
All this still very MOOOOOOOO
Wonder if thats what DY meant by “very planned.”
@twinkletoes says:
August 6, 2010 at 6:26 pm
my reasons:
Told teacher phony dr. appt. story
Kyron told Kurtis it was that day, which is why Kurtis wasn’t surprised he was gone (above according to Hinky)
Teacher said appt. was why she was not worried about his absence
Took truck to pick up display and never picked it up
Perfect opportunity to pick up display was after school while picking up Kyron at the same time, not done obviously
“Hitting the gym”, and other FB comments as if nothing wrong
Complained about her privacy being invaded the first day the poor boy was missing
Time lines on the 4th as she has described them are impossible (see Hinky again)
Kaine knew nothing about appt.
Took and posted pics quickly of Kyron, who was usually not on her page
She had 98 pictures of the toddler on her FB and a handful of Kyron, some of which have insulting captions
Several emails to Desiree, very brief which was out of character
Acted surprised that Desiree would bother to come and help with the search
Fake sadness at presser
No pleas for help or denials of guilt, just silence
Failed two polygraphs, walked out of another
Didn’t fight restraining order
Didn’t fight moving out
Didn’t contest divorce
Didn’t contest losing custody of baby!!!
Hired criminal attorney, big gun
Murder for hire plot
LE ~ focused on Terri for a reason
Cell phone pinging where she didn’t claim to be
Affair before the sheets are cold while Kyron is still missing
Her friends say she is a great mother, but she drove drunk and was arrested with her son in the car! My stepfather was a drunk and drove with us drunk many times where he wasn’t caught…usually caught after many violations and nobody can tell me a great mother would ever do this even once with her child in the car.
She had 98 pictures of the toddler on FB and a handful of Kyron, some of which have insulting captions
Driving baby girl around with an earache…I have had them and you cannot stand any movement, which would exacerbate the situation
No one else in the family has failed a LDT
Having friends buy prepaid cell phones under assumed name
I may have left somethings out, that being said I do not think she acted alone. Is any of that enough to convict? I don’t think so, unless for the MFH. But it is enough for the Grand Jury to indict.
And since I am not omniscient, I can still believe I could be wrong and she is just an unfortunate victim of an unusually large set of suspicious circumstances. I would love to know what the statistical chances are for that BTW. MOO, with respect for all other opinions, thanks.
Not sure of anything except Terri looked good on her BD
then went down hill fast
and she has a lot of friends.
She has to be likeable
I read those were old BB poses from her better days that she sent
MC
I really think she needed money and got friendly with the bad
guys really criminals
then the whole world went down
I think she is scared and should be
Word Girl – I just hope you are wrong. Before the media frenzy, the hate cults, the character assassinations began, Terri was described by friends, family and acquaintances as being a very good mother. It was said that she loved Kyron and that he loved her. As blue stated, Kyron was obviously well cared for. I know there is evil in the world and that there are evil people who do evil things. I guess I just have to have proof as in hard evidence, not the world’s opinions, thought, feelings, etc.
As far as my interpretation of her first video appearance, I have to say the lady was totally bizarre. I didn’t get specific “guilty” vibes from her, but then I was not looking for those vibes. I just got the feeling that I was looking at someone pretty strange. To me she seemed to be flailing about uncontrollably, like she just had to keep moving and otherwise she would be the “moving target.” I thought she was just someone who really did not want the visual scrutiny so the second she felt eyes on her, she moved. I think all her particular movements, the hugging and clinging, were what she deemed appropriate for that reality. And, I’ll be totally frank here, knowing I could get chewed out. I thought Kaine was just as strange as Terri, but in a different way. The Youngs seemed totally natural. The Hormons were strange.
I just cannot accept that being strange is clear sign of having the capacity for premeditated murder, affecting a final abuse before the act is committed. I know there are people in the world who hurt and kill children. I don’t know, based on the factual information available to us, that Terri Hormon is one of those people.
to CassieS – thank you. I appreciate your comments about your life. I was in a very abusive marriage many years ago and I know how difficult it is to even tell about it. I suspect personal experience is one of the things that make us so persistent in trying to help others, and that many of the people who post on this site may have similar experiences that inspire them as well.
I have a visual of the red Mustang license plate “Red Sqrl” around the time ~cant pinpoint it ~I really notice Red Mustangs~I would love to have one~& that is why my attention was focused….this was on the way into Gresham outside of Sandy, Oregon ~! There are a lot of lakes ~ forest land just wondered
Following is my current theory of what happened. I believe it does not conflict with any verified facts. I believe Terri made the plan, but the reason the case hasn’t come to a conclusion yet is not because it was such a magnificent plan, but because LE was cautious and skillful and the plan was based on impossible predictions and faulty thinking.
I don’t believe the motive is as important here as what happened, but I think it was money to be gained by suing the school district. Kyron was supposed to be kept from knowing anybody or any place involved, allowed to escape, and be rescued (perhaps even by Terri) in a few days or so, leaving the school district open for a huge lawsuit. Maybe that’s why she didn’t seem distressed, but rather annoyed by the investigation – not that she knew he was already dead, but she thought he was coming home and she might even be a hero, changing everyone’s attitude toward her. I know this theory cannot be proved at this time and I propose this theory for discussion purposes only.
Kyron left school with Terri, thinking he was going to the doctor, and was in the back of the truck (with tinted windows) playing a game or reading while Terri was in Albertson’s or Fred Meyer’s. As planned, someone he didn’t know got into the truck with a key (pretending to force the door and ignition), threatened or drugged him, drove off, handed him to someone else he didn’t know (while drugged) who then drove him to another planned location. The first person returned the truck close enough to the store for Terri to retrieve with child and grocery cart, and then took bus/car/a ride from there. She did not expect anyone to examine the truck closely for signs of another driver.
This part of the plan worked. However, Terri discovers Kyron has thrown up in the back of the truck (fear/drugs/carsick being forced to the floor/whatever). That has to be cleaned up and she will need help with Kiara. She also discovers his glasses which she does not want to be questioned about, so she will need to drive to the location where he is, or to call and meet someone involved to get those back to where Kyron is. If DeDe is available, she asks her to help with Kiara while she cleans the truck, not telling her the whole story (remember Kiara supposedly wasn’t feeling well). If DeDe wasn’t available, she could possibly leave Kiara in the gym daycare, slip out with some cleaning supplies, then go back in.
Terri accomplishes all this and makes it home before Kaine. She is confident in the plan and thinks Kyron is OK (maybe even that they can joke about it being a CSI adventure sometime in the future). LE does not think Kyron wandered off but searches for clues in the area. Terri is surprised and annoyed when LE stays at the house so much and when other family members begin to think she is acting strange.
Terri knows her communications are being monitored and she has to restrict her movements. She now doesn’t know what’s going on with Kyron (she expected to be informed) and has planned no way to check that won’t be monitored. She can’t ask a friend at the gym to carry messages, but she can ask for a new phone to use. She makes such a good case for needing the phone that her friends get them too, so she will be able to have their support.
There is no opportunity for Terri to be able to pick up Kyron so the rescue call doesn’t come. Releasing Kyron and holding him are both getting riskier every day, so he is either killed or passed along to someone else (leaving the state, the country, or underground for child porn) without consulting Terri. LS warns her of the sting operation (perhaps using one of her new phones), thinking he is still going to get money from her to keep quiet and possibly for his role in the kidnapping (as promised). If the sting works, he gets no money.
Terri’s plan is way off track now and she no longer has control of the plan so she can’t “fix” anything. She may still be talking with friends, but is not likely to be telling anyone the truth who doesn’t already know it. Her energy now goes into what she considers is maintaining her “not guilty” image (it doesn’t work).
The second LS (or accomplice) who helped take Kyron, attempts to leave the country or at least to get as far away from here as possible. Instead he was picked up and held in jail. The first LS is likely to be in jail too. Both may have been reluctant to make a deal because they are the most directly involved with whatever has happened to Kyron by now, but at some point a deal is likely to be made. If they admit to killing him, they have no reason not to tell where his body is. If they did not kill Kyron, but passed him along to someone else, it may be extremely difficult to find him, but it could eventually happen.
In the plan, there was a kidnapping, but no ransom demand was ever planned. Asking for and collecting ransom is extremely risky. If Kyron “escapes” in 2 or 3 days and has no real clues to give about his captors, Terri is in the clear, they all (including the unsuspecting Young’s and the accomplices)get a cut of the school district settlement money (maybe a million or more), LE moves on to other cases. The accomplices don’t talk unless they are caught and they don’t expect to be.
Sorry, readers. I did my writing in word using paragraphs which are now gone when I copied. I should have doublespaced instead. I know it’s a long theory, but I value your comments if you have time to read.
Question… Does union protection interfere at all with investigations? I never really thought about this until now.
I do not know if Terri is guilty or innocent. However, I do want to comment on a PTA scenario that I recently endured in Oregon. I will keep it as nondescript as possible for obvious reasons.
I volunteered for, and worked very hard on, some fundraising at my daughter’s school. During the actual fundraising event, I witnessed extremely unethical behavior/activities by one person in particular and to my knowledge, she was NOT involved in the organizing if the event (not that it change things for me).
I questioned her activity and she became VERY offensive. She then went to get the soon-to-be PTA President who defended her hideous actinos. WOW!!! I was blown away!!!! I then informed the person that was in charge of the event, and she was suddenly too busy to be bothered with such activity. I guess you could say that the classic saying “Do as I as, but not as I do” would apply here.
I was appalled, mystified, and immediately stated that based on my obersvations and lack of action by those in charge of the event, I had no other choice than to immediately disassociate myself with the fundraising event.
When I questioned those in charge the following day about their lack of action relative to activities that were taking place during the fundraising event, I decided that it was best for me to remove myself from any further PTA involvement. How paethic is that? I say, VERY.
Based on my questioning as a Committee Member for this particular event,and the unanimous disproval of PTA officials about my seeming right to review transactions of that event, it would not surprise me if school officials are less than honest. They were “Johnny on the Spot” in organizing a PTA audit, which they were confirming that I need not worry and/or have any concern to question activities. If there was no need to question activities, there would have been NO need to call in the Oregon officials. What did they need to keep from me? Obvious, quite a lot. To me, they were all friends, and thicker than thieves. If my credibility was on the line and I had a right to know what transactions transpired, why in the world would such an innocent organization block me and organize an audit? Frankly, they sound far more guilty than Terri Horman!
I am deeply bothered that Sklyline Elementary is not front and center in the media as to their part in Kyron’s disappearance. I would NOT be shocked if there were people backing one another for this, that, and/or the other. Volunteers, teachers, etc. What sickens me is that Teachers are severely protected by their unions. I hear this is especially true in Oregon. This COULD be WHY Oregon schools are NOT all THAT!
IMHO, many of our systems in Oregon are corrupt and/or totally incompetent. Passes the mind daily.
Could the C.G. mentioned below (FB Terri Horman Support Page) be Cherlyn Guido? The third friend of Terri’s?
Terri Horman Support Page http://www.kptv.com/news/24517256/detail.html
Sheriff’s Captain: Kyron Case ‘More Personal’ – Portland News Story – KPTV Portland
http://www.kptv.com
PORTLAND, Ore. — A sheriff’s captain close to the investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance says he understands the community’s frustration. Wednesday, August 4, 2010.
Thursday at 12:03am ·
Terri Horman Support Page (EL) This is a very strange story. It’s almost sick. It has Kyron’s picture. It has Kyron’s name. But it’s all about the MFH case and MFH tips and Grand Jury testimony about the MFH case against Terri. C****** G**** testified today. Chelsea Aleshire testifies tomorrow.
With regards to the cell phones/fake name.
I went to the Verizon website, and indeed there does not seem to be service on Shelter Nook Rd. area. So, it’s definitely plausible that if the friends had Verizon, they had no reception. I’m not really understanding why they had to switch phones though, to go visit Terri; or were they staying with her? We know that DeDe did in fact stay with Terri for some time; but what about the other friend; the one who was interviewed?
Do we know who the second person is who might’ve stayed at the Horman house?
So, there may be a plausible explanation for the friends getting ATT phones. However, are we to believe Terri had a cell phone where she did not get service? Doubtful. So she likely was on ATT already. So, why the new phone? Certainly the press may have tracked down her number. Possibly Kaine cut off her service. So, why didn’t she just transfer her service to her own ATT account?
Why go out and buy burn phones? Perhaps out of the belief that texts and calls couldn’t be traced with this kind of phone/service? Perhaps Terri didn’t want to maintain her original service because LE had already been granted access to her phone records, and she was afraid they might be able to access them again. The friend admitted they were concerned their phones were being monitored by LE, and that they felt they had privacy issues because of that. Why? What did they have to hide?
I also found the use of a fake name a bit odd. If you’re buying a phone for yourself, why a fake name? It’s not like there’s public records where they could find out so-and-so bought a burn phone.
On a side note, don’t we pretty much know the second person is DeDe? I mean the article states the person who bought the first phone was NOT DeDe. Yet, numerous articles state DeDe was one of the people to purchase a phone for Terri. So by process of elimination… Person 2, is DeDe?
@Mermaid14 says:
August 7, 2010 at 1:17 am
Those two statements do contradict each other, don’t they? I can’t explain it either. But I think the following tips it in the direction of Kim Holm’s version being correct.
“Prior to his June 4 disappearance, Kyron Horman’s stepmother, Terri Horman, informed his teacher he had a doctor’s appointment on Friday, the sources said, and it was why there was no expectation Kyron would be in class after the science fair. Once class began at 10 a.m., his teacher marked him absent.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98981009.html
I guess the best reason I can find for believing Terri is responsible is that LE seems to think she is and I assume they have more information than I do. But from the information we have so far, I can’t be certain of anything. Every time something sordid comes out, I think “Oh that Terri!” and then I settle down and realize we really haven’t learned anything relevant to finding Kyron. A few people have asked how could she be sexting while Kyron was missing. I’d have a problem with her doing it even if he was still here. Yuk! And I still think it was to manipulate Mike Cook into helping her take Kiara, or like some have said, a sad, sick coping mechanism.
Did y’all look at the list of LE agencies involved in this case?
B
and why hasn’t there been more discussion of the federal agents involved? is there an underground something something that is under survellience (DEA undercover ??) from these different agencies, who apparently were already in the region ??
and tonite was the first time I read (per Blink) that a ransom request was initially expected. this information is huge.
Soooo much that we do not know.
I have always felt, despite all the lurid, domestic drama and the fact that TH was reportedly the last to see Kyron, there has not been enough information released that clearly links her to his disappearance.
However, I just read that one of TH’s friends bought cell phones for the two of them using a fake name after Kaine moved out because she knew LE was monitoring the calls.
So, now, I am wondering: if TH did not commit a crime, why are she and her friends behaving as if they did? Buying cell phones under fake names? Come on, girls. I have a friend who is an investigator and he always says, “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck…and hangs around with other ducks, it must be a duck.”
Or, could TH and said friend just be engaging in reckless and stupid behavior, and be completely innocent? Certainly. But, isn’t TH a big fan of CSI and Dexter? If she is even a semi-attentive viewer, she would know how focused an investigation can be and should realize that all those high powered LE agencies are holding meetings, bringing in every type of expert, and putting their heads together on a regular basis in an extremely focused, diligent effort to find this little boy. If she, DD, LS and/or any other amateurs are involved, do they really think they can outsmart these professionals? Using fake names to buy cell phones?! I am in the business of assessing human behavior within forensic systems, and this type of behavior never ceases to amaze me.
IMHO, I believe if a group of individuals is involved in this case, one of them may decide to talk at some point. So, keep going grand jury. And, yes, I know all about pleading the fifth, but invariably, in a case such as this, there is a real possibility that one individual will suddenly and amazingly sprout the most rudimentary conscience, and Voila! the pieces will fall into place. I have actually seen this happen in a local murder case where the victim’s family applied pressure on LE to solve the case and used intense public support as leverage. Let’s just hope and pray this particular individual’s conscience “sprouts” sooner than later, if indeed more than one person is involved.
The leak from the GJ about the phones makes me wonder if the implications have really sunk in. The friend is attributed to going to a store and getting three AT&T phones for TH, DD and herself, using a fake name. AT&T phones would require a name. Then, as the story goes, the next day, someone else at a different store, using the same fake name gets two bat phones and pays cash.
That is five phones, in two days. Could it be that the original three phones were decidedly traceable, so back to the store for the bat phones? Who got the bat phones? What were the used for? Why was it necessary to communicate without law enforcement knowing?http://www.katu.com/news/local/100161574.html
Is everyone aware that the LE agencies involved in this case, have the capability to listen to both sides of the conversation on those bat phones within 100 yards of TH, which is probably how they learned about them in the first place? The deputy inside the home, and undoubtedly trailing TH in the following weeks was also wired. Point is, this little brain trust of hers, who now find themselves in the middle of a criminal investigation, are not masterminds.
What kind of conversations do you need to have outside of LE monitoring when their is a 7 year old missing would be my question.
B
Not to answer for twinkle, but imo, following the right leads brings resolution to a case. This does not mean that LE is not doing a great job, it sometimes can mean criminals are lucky and smart at the same time.
B
————
To Blink: Completely agreed.
I guess my point is, I would think that LE is following more than one lead already (i would hope) — and narrowing the field from there. Or rather, narrowing the field to those involved or contributed in some way, even if it was indirectly.
My inquiry still stands though. RE: Twinkletoes. How would you have the insight to know LE has followed the wrong leads for “so long”? Who should they be focusing their energy on?
I guess I just don’t follow your logic when all signs point to at least one person, given what we know. Links have been made, whether one chooses to recognizes it or not. There is a mound of circumstantial evidence piling up, and I’d reckon to say it aint a koinky-dink that its swirling around one person. The universe isn’t conspiring against TH to make her “look guilty”.
I appreciate your argument, I truly do. But for goodness sakes, here is one more reason to question her involvment. Kaine booked it out of there with Kiara a few weeks back based on evidence he was privy to and fallout is evident. Furthermore, Tony — a friggin detective — who happens to be privy to more information that you or I — believes her to be involved. What more proof do you need?
So my question is this. If the 3 people closest to TH (*including a trained detective, I say again) have shown considerable concern and question her involvement — what makes you believe that TH is not responsible for Kyron’s disappearance? I really am trying to understand.
Again not twinkle, and I know she will weigh in when she gets a chance, but I believe that twinkle’s goal was to establish the point that how can ANYONE be 100% convinced of TH guilt and complicity, with the known facts of this case.
There is a reason this went to a GJ and no arrest was made prior. The burdens on the state in a kidnapping/child endangerment/murder (unknown) case without recovering a victim, or physical evidence indicating bodily harm is very, very stringent.
I believe this was the pending decision Dan Staton was referring to weeks ago, whether to go this route.
Everyone believes TH is involved somehow, I agree to that, it is to what extent that has my brow up.
This does not make sense to me. They had enough probable cause to get a warrant to have the “sting” regarding solicitation, yet no charges are filed. They use that intel to contribute to RO’s and an emergency exparte order, which I can tell you in my jurisdiction would never have been granted without a sworn affidavit from LE, which would then have allowed it to remain sealed in an ongoing investigation.
You have Laura Rackner filing a motion seeking disclosure of $350K alleged retainer, with no evidence of same except to say “disclosed to a 3rd party”. Again, in my jurisdiction, motions are required to stand on their own merit because in most cases a tentative ruling is offered the day before the hearing is set, to expedite family court matters, which gives counsel an oppty to not have oral arguments, or be somewhat prepared to see how the court is leaning. You have a contempt motion that specifically references sexually graphic images that are similar to those (sic) that went to the landscaper.
My gut tells me there is one reason this woman has not been arrested yet, other than those I have already stated-
In her polly, regarding the question, did you arrange to have Kyron kidnapped, and do you know where he is- those answers were not deceptive. That is not a pass by any means, but it does go to intent or lack thereof.
For me, there is no question she let the vampire in the house, but then what?
Kyron did not leave with TH.
The key to this case as I have stated before, is Rudy Sanchez and his associates.
Remember.. “she led him on.. he was expecting something..”
Oh and lack of evidence does not count as an answer. Too easy. You aren’t going to get a case file on this anytime soon (or are you?) — give me something to chew on.
Respectfully,
Ava
@NancyS: I believe when Blink stated that there would be an arrest and a gag order, she didn’t mean that the arrested person would be gagged but that all details would be kept out of the public domain.
In the first days of Kyron’s disappearance, I felt that the immediate presence of FBI and other outside agencies was strange. It set off an alarm for me. It seemed over-the-top for a boy that just “wandered off”. I don’t recall seeing that so quickly in other missing person cases. A boy went missing on the coast this weekend and I don’t believe the FBI was called in (he was found safe).
The Sunday after Kyron went missing, I went out to a relative’s property, which is quite close to the school, to make sure the house was secure (they were out of town). There were flashing road signs set up to alert drivers to look for the “missing boy”. While I was standing in the driveway, there was a search helicopter right over my head. It seemed like they expected to find him somewhere in that area.
Blink’s comment about LE treating it like a ransom/kidnapping feels right to me. It’s like he went out the door and got into a vehicle with someone he knew. Maybe TH knew she wanted Kyron gone, but couldn’t stomach knowing the details. Maybe she’s guilty of nothing more than planting ideas in the minds of others.
I saw her behavior at the first press conference and like most others, thought something was off. It’s too bad we weren’t able to hear her speak. I don’t know if anyone remembers watching Susan Smith back in 1995. When that woman made her first public plea, I could barely watch. She made me so uncomfortable; I just knew she was lying.
I think part of the reason Fargo was such a popular movie, was that it showed non-beautiful people committing crimes in a clumsy fashion – like real people might. There is so much that I believe LE knows that they’re not sharing. I am placing my trust in them to get this job done.
Continued
after she lost her child support
when James left she may have got money
from some person for what ever
remember all those 911 calls to have the property
searched
she may not have realized just how bad these
people are
being from Roseburg
now she is scared for Kiara
Kyron being gone some unknown place
is this her fault. Yes
this is just my thoughts on things
and I also blame the school
maybe i`ve missed it or misunderstood,but was there ever a tlk about le (one person ?)staying at the hormans 24/7 for the first days.
from our expierence of other cases if it was a probably kidnapping,le was there to take care of the telephon.
either they knew it was/coud be a kidnapping or to protect the family.although i think it would be more then one person.
another one of which i think of day 1.
when kyron was missing in his classroom,his teacher presumed he could
be in the bathroom,ok,but what did he/she think,whenhe was not back after 10 minutes ?
would it be not normal to check it out ? wth she/he did`nt do it ?
or did he/she forget about it?
pls,can someone asw this question?