Kyron Horman Missing: Case Review And Birthday Wishes To The Frog Prince
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On what is Kyron Horman’s 8th Birthday, the Skyline School, where Kyron was scheduled to begin the third grade, is buzzing with the start of the years activities without him.
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In response to the disappearance and presumed abduction of the bespectacled herpetologist; Skyline has implemented a myriad of mandatory safety features as well as a state of the art security camera system. While complete with facial recognition capability, one face it will not be recognizing today, is that of Kyron Horman.
Although missing since the morning of June 4, 2010, there have been no updates from the many State and Federal agencies participating in the criminal investigation of his disappearance since August 12, 2010.
Adding to the mounting concern about the status of Kyron’s fate are the words of his own parents, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young.
“The police will not stop until they find Kyron and the harder they have to search–the harder this will get for you,” wrote Young. “You will go to jail and whoever has been helping you will have to talk police or they will go to jail.”
It is clear from Kaine and Desiree’s comments that they believe Terri Horman, Kyron’s step mom, is at least partially responsible for Kyron vanishing. While they stop short of naming any possible accomplices, Rod Underhill, the chief deputy district attorney of Multnomah County, Captain Jason Gates, Detective Bob O’Donnell of the Multnomah County Sheriff Office have sought the publics help to flush them out. Multnomah County Chief Deputy District Attorney Rod Underhill said a witness, or witnesses, have reported seeing someone else by the Hormans’ extended-cab pickup while it was parked in front of the school between 8:15 a.m. and 8:45 a.m. on June 4, the day Kyron disappeared. In what was characterized as a slip-up, methinks that that Kyron’s Mom told us that someone was actually Kyron.
While Terri Horman is holed up at her parents newly refinanced home in Roseburg and under the mortgage-sized retainer protection of Stephen Houze; she is awaiting the September 21st contempt hearing for allegedly violating an order that she not disclose the “sealed” reasoning for, or contents of, the current restraining order in effect against her.
Accomplice, Witness, Opportunist or Collateral Damage?
Rodolfo “Rudy” Estrada Sanchez
When reached at one of the numbers records show is billed in his brothers name, Jaime Estrada Sanchez, who uses the name Jaime Estrada on his carpet cleaning business website declined to comment to blinkoncrime.com and the number has since been disconnected.
Speaking on the condition of anonymity, a close family friend who has since been interviewed by the FBI, has confirmed that Terri Horman is pointing her finger directly at Sanchez. She has also stated that she and Sanchez had an altercation after she attempted to end their relationship in May which ended in a 911 call and a visit from Clackamas County Sheriff Office in the presence of Sanchez’s wife and children. While it did not result in any charges, Horman told the source that the landscaper was furious with her because he is not in the US legally. While blinkoncrime.com has not been able to verify the date of the alleged 911 call, we have been able to verify that Terri called her Mother immediately following the incident and told her that Kaine had found out about the landscaper she hired to do what she referred to as “her yardwork” and when she informed him that she could no longer use him because Kaine was making her fire him, he lunged at her with Kiara in her arms. Kaine Horman denies the couple ever hired the landscaper as well as any previous information as to his estranged wife’s possible dealings with Sanchez.
It should be noted that Mr. Sanchez has not been charged with any crime in this matter and local references to his business are highly complimentary. In fact, Jean Ann Van Krevelen a friend and “mentor” of Dede Spicher has used RS Landscape Maintenance on a few occasions, leaving positive reviews on the ServiceMaster listing which deleted his business from the site on 6/21/10. Heather Walters, owner of Rosemont Farm,which is not West Wind Farm, where Dede Spicher was working the morning of June 4th and out of reach by phone from approximately 90 minutes, has never met Terri Horman or heard of their family prior to Kyron’s disappearance. When I asked her if she knew Rudy Sanchez or if she ever hired his firm to work at WWF, she replied “not that I recall, no, but we did have a blackberry clean up a few years ago so it is possible.”
Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez
Or has he?
Although records indicate that he was placed under post probation supervision by ICE on February 19, 2010, according to Mr. Sanchez-Sanchez Federal criminal docket after being “found in the US and apprehended” in August 2009” following a previous deportation in 2003, he was “administratively arrested” on February 23, 2010. A Federal Grand Jury’s subsequent indictment was issued on March 4 and he was immediately incarcerated.
Mr. Sanchez-Sanchez rap sheet includes convictions for rape, failure to register as a sex offender and a host of probation and parole violations prior to his deportation.
In what can only be categorized as a bizarre coincidence, Oregon BOP VINE network shows that on June 26, 2010, they very day of the “sting” involving Rudy Sanchez, Anselmo was transferred and released to “community supervision”. There is no record of either his transfer or his booking by MCSO July 8th on his docket. What is reflected on the record for June 21st, is the US Marshall Service requested a rescheduling of his plea hearing on July 1st - July 12th directly with the presiding judge outside of his Federal appointed defense attorney. Yep. Exparte. Mr. Sanchez attorney Allison Clark used the 7/12/10 court date to file a motion to quit the case. They have subsequently worked through their differences and were scheduled to appear yesterday, but a 4th continuance in the case was granted to reschedule for October 7, 2010. In that motion, Ms. Clark asserts that Mr. Sanchez has been in custody the entire time but that his records are difficult to retrieve so more time to prepare for trial is necessary. I’ll say.
Dede Spicher
Doppelganger. Organic Gardner. Jilted girlfriend and support network for Terri Horman.
Up until a few weeks ago, she was also very much the object of accusation by Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, as well as the investigators assigned to Kyron’s case. So much so, they released a flyer featuring the ginger ladies and the infamous white truck. LE has subsequently backed off of Spicher and publicly stated they do not believe it was her in the white truck in the lot of the Skyline School. Dede’s father is a semi-retired Klamath County Sheriff deputy. If it can be confirmed Spicher knew Kyron was missing on June 4th we have a very big problem.
Blinkoncrime.com is in receipt of a private post through a mutual friend of Dede’s in response to an article about Kyron’s disappearance from the school which was post on June 4th at 11:40PM
Spicher responded on June 5 at 7:44am: Holy Crap! I KNOW this boy!
Mutual Friend, June 5, 1:35PM: no way???!!! Really Dede?
Spicher: yes. My friend Terri is the step-mother mentioned in the article. It’s so shocking when something like this hits so close to home. < ?xml:namespace prefix ="" v />
Michael Cook
The source of both information for the contempt filing and hundreds of sexts exchanged between he and Terri Horman following Kaine Horman’s filing for divorce and leaving the marital residence as advised by MCSO, Michael Cook was a high school classmate of Kaine Horman.
Mr. Cook is also one smarmy dude if his former spouse Shannon has anything to say about it.
Oddly, blinkoncrime.com has learned from an inside source that Cook was not called before the grand jury to testify. In the instant action for contempt, Kaine Horman’s attorney Laura Rackner specifically references the “sexting” and the text regarding Houze’s fee as information provided by law enforcement.
So, was he acting as an agent for le or is he himself under investigation?
Jason Wishert
William Jason Wishert is undoubtedly wishing he had not interjected himself in this case. Apparently new to the blogosphere via a request from Maxine Bernstein of the Oregonian, Mr. Wishert took to what he saw as his *nuveau*cause*celeb* status with moxy.
That was until he announced his appearance on the scaredmonkeys.net forum to answer questions about the case and cry the blues when he accused the Oregonian of using his rough notes to skewer Dede Spicher. According to Wishert the “not a lot of kissing but plenty of telling” memo was not supposed to be published. About 3 minutes into his introduction to his “sleuthing public” Wishert was asked why he spelled his name incorrectly and if he was indeed the son of convicted child porn possessor William Kent Wishart. In a really bad move, Mr. Wishert denied the allegation and retreated with his tail somewhere on his person.
Kent Wishart, former CEO of Graphic Sciences, is in Federal Custody for the next 4 years for possession of child porn and engaging in a file sharing subscription for same. Jason’s brother Grant is an employee of GS. All three Wishert’s hold numerous active and inactive business licenses throughout Oregon and Washington. Graphic Sciences has a Mexican affiliate office.
Both Jason and his brother James Grant have had numerous legal entanglements (editor’s note: say it just like Chief Margie with the flat “a”) and our attempts to substantiate Jason’s claims about court appointed child advocacy certifications have yet to be confirmed.
However, with his Uncle John Kerr, Jason Wishert is heavily involved in the Friends of Pimpollo Charity which sponsors various children issues and an orphanage in Mexico. FOP is a verified charity with a 50% tax deduction rate according to IRS Publication 78 in good standing, but they are years behind in their annual reporting.
Birthday Boy and America’s Frog Prince
Today, Kyron Horman’s eigth birthday, may not bring us any closer to where our frog prince is, but we do wish to extend our thoughts and prayers in celebration of his special day to his parents, friends and family. There are 2 celebrations for Kyron today. The picture below is an image of the birthday invitation chosen by his Mom, Desiree Young, and designed by scaredmonkeys poster Brandi.
Images by Klaasend
Jason Mateos, Madeline Tanner, and Laura Cincaid contributing editors to this report
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Riverpearl, I think I may have found it. This is a very thoughtfully formulated and well-written article that I think is worth the read. It was previously posted on a detective forum, but was moved.
http://www.publicrecordsdetectivesjournal.co.cc/2010/08/kyron-horman-disappearance-this-is-what.html
Riverpearl,
I did wonder about whether or not outside organizations participated.
At my daughter’s SF last year, there was a “cool electric” project, but it was not from any student at her school. It was displayed and operated by University students. My daughter’s school is k-5 and not k-8, which having older students might provide more complicated projects. I can remember a gentleman that brought one of those mobile devices where you stand up and sort of lean into it and then it moves you…can’t remember the name right now (People Mover?). There were kids lined up for forever to try it out.
But I was wondering if LE may have been there at some point displaying a new electric vehicle.
I feel like I’ve been banging my head against the wall for the last week while researching the vast number of folks “associated” with Rudy Sanchez. These people have a different alias for every day of the damn week! And each one can be found in 2-3 formats consisting of the same words arranged differently with hyphens in different places. Here is what really stumps me. Rudy has no real criminal record that I can find (under any format and I’ve even looked at every criminal convicted in Oregon with his dob) so that doesn’t jive with the known offender we will later be kicking ourselves about saying “we should have known”…this leads me to believe that he is more likely to have been the one who could have lured Kyron out of the school and handed him over to a known bad bad guy. Now we know Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez was incarcerated on June 4 (and wow oh wow are he and his crew SCARY) but who else could have been the receiver? There is a Ubaldo R Sanchez that once shared address and /or phone records with Rudy and I have located address and criminal records on 2 with that name but I have not yet confirmed which “R” I found is related . Neither of them are a prince by any means but one is definately much worse than the other. I do not think this is the Ubaldo related to Elsy, as that Ubaldo has a different middle initial and an additional last name that I do not see tied into any of the Rudy Bunch (in fact I’ve put that possibility on the back burner for now as I can’t connect them at all).
On the subject of BP I need to correct an earlier statement that I made way upthread. I either overlooked or did not check divorce records on him before now as I thought he and Tanners mother were still married. They are not. Records show they filed for divorce in Aug 2006. As for Mr. P, I cannot locate any current address records on him so I haven’t a clue if he is still in the area or not. Civil records don’t show anything post 2006 divorce and related matters that I could find. Blink, why do I feel I’m missing an obvious “boat” here?
Neighbor 10/05 10:47pm
Oh Neighbor, there’s nothing like trusting the criminals to self monitor. Just in case you were wondering, it’s like this everywhere.
http://www.handsonportland.org/AboutUs/index.php/courtorderedvolunteering.html
Explain why you are volunteering: Some agencies won’t work with court.ordered volunteers, or do so only on
a limited basis. Be up front with them and explain why you are calling. Hands On Greater Portland volunteers
must sign a waiver that they’ve never been convicted of or charged with a violent crime, child abuse or neglect,
child pornography, child abduction, kidnapping, rape or any sexual offense, or ordered by a court to receive psychiatric or psychological treatment in connection to that crime.
18.Midwest Mom says:
October 5, 2010 at 5:26 pm
I gotta pipe in about the man in the pic. Generally when we are curious about someone, a local will comment about who they are or if they know them, such as rodgers, we had people say he is such and such, and a great guy and known him X years.
Picture guy…nothing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MidwestMom, my best bet is that he has been questioned and cleared, or is a witness. The police would not release the name of a potential material witness, nor would they release the name of someone who was not in any way involved. If they did release his name, the media would be climbing all over him wanting to know what he saw that morning. Some people just do not like the limelight.
For this same reason the judge is not allowing media to hang out at the courthouse and photograph the witnesses that are testifying before the GJ. Believe me, when you are caught up in a high profile case it starts to feel like an out of control circus FAST.
I agree with neighbor, except that I would rather PPS NOT get involved in improving security. Seems like everything they get involved in they tend to %&#% up. I think the school staff is doing just fine making their own decisions.
And I think I’m beginning to see why LE wanted us to keep our big mouths shut (although they said it much more politely). You think you are saying one thing and it can get understood as something else. I didn’t mean to make people think I though that Tanner’s family was involved in any way. I have no reason to believe that. I was only pointing out that he could be mistaken. To be more clear, I don’t buy his testimony about what happened when he returned to the classroom. It does not square with other, more reliable stories that I’ve heard. Not that I’m calling him a liar. My strong suspicion is that the scene unfolded exactly as he said – but on a day earlier in the week. And unknown to him – it was followed up by one of the adults hunting Kyron down in the bathroom or hallway and giving him a stern lecture about leaving the group without letting anyone know. My own child of a similar age is constantly asking me what day it is. I think their concept of time just isn’t fully formed yet in young children and its easy for them to mix up days.
I’m not sure about much in this case, but one thing I absolutely believe is that Ms Porter thought Kyron was with him step mother all day. I cannot, however, be completely sure whether she was intentionally misled, or there was a very tragic and coincidental misunderstanding.
That’s with HIS step mother. I’m a terrible proofer.
Mockingbird, Annals, Beejay, and all interested
Maybe this is how RS Landscape Maintenance got around the school board, and into the Garden & Habitat Project Blink wrote of.
http://facilities.pps.k12.or.us/.docs/pg/11253
thank you Falstaff for the reply. You sound like you’re a local, is that correct? so many posts on here and I try to pay attention to all, but sometimes I get sidetracked. Do you know anything about Brian Pumala then? that you could mention?
I only ask because I’ve not seen much info about him at all. He may have nothing to do with this whole thing, but it does raise questions that the area of that houseboat on Sauvie was included where LE searched early on in the investigation. If I could just check BP or Jason w. off my list, I’d be happy. Those two keep nagging at me.
@30.Wordweaver says:
October 5, 2010 at 7:30 pm
9.lyla says:
October 5, 2010 at 4:36 pm
@Wordweaver says:
October 4, 2010 at 10:30 pm
“I think it makes perfect sense for Terri to have been involved. In MOO Terri wanted money – if we are to believe she was behind the murder for hire plot then, we can assume that she wanted the life insurance. If this is true then the leap to believe that she didn’t care about Kyron, he was yet another means to an end in a long history of using people for her own cause. I think she sold him. I think the ransom was staged so that suspicion would not fall on her.”
————————————-
I agree….with your last sentence. I felt this from early on
___________________
Sorry, Lyla, but that was not me. I don’t believe TH was directly involved. I’m not sure about a staged ransom — I’m more inclined to believe there was a real ransom that “went bad”, because there was nothing to pay it with, or it wasn’t taken seriously, or something else changed. I think Terri’s actions are explained in a number of ways — but mostly that she had something to hide. I think she was surprised at Kyron’s disappearance and at first was forthcoming but then when she had to be accountable her story got sticky because she didn’t want to own up to her other misdeeds.
When this first happened, one of the things that struck me was initially — for the first couple of days — she seemed to be the only person doing anything — responding to questions, coordinating action. I wondered where the hell was and who the hell was Kyron’s father. We didn’t see or hear from Kaine until the first press conference.
I truly think this has unfolded around Terri and she is not involved other than being into things with the wrong people, and Kyron is paying the price.
————————————
Thanks for the correction Wordweaver.
Did Terri make some comments publicly that I missed before the first PC? I do remember her postings on FB June 5th and subsequently. What were your thoughts after watching the first PC? My heart went straight out to Desiree….gets to me. I hope there is a resolution.
Ironically…one of Terri’s favorite television programs, DEXTER (On Showtime) used this exact verbage this past Sunday…Season 5, Episode 2…
Don’t have time to replay it now to get the exact quote, but it was something to the extent of:
via Dexter’s character as he is “thinking out loud” so we hear his thoughts: I’ve “disappeared” so many…
Dexter’s character is a serial killer, who actually does disappear his victims after he kills them. This is why he is able to continue killing…he plans his kills so that no bodies,no evidence…nothing is ever found. They are just gone!
I’m not sure which came first BOC posters or Dexter’s writers. However, when I watched the program, I noticed the same language was used…and of course I thought it was odd. BUT…now that I think about it…I think the character of Dexter, has already used this phrase in previous seasons as well.
Bottom line: Unless Kyron is found (which I personally don’t believe he will ever be found ..arrests will not be made in the near future. UNfortunately, much much later is most probable reality.
I point this out, beacuse without Kryon…or hard forensic evidence of an actual crime occuring…it’s mostly all circumstantial eveidence.
Sooo…In MOO, whoever did this —did in fact…”DISAPPEAR” Kyron.
I love this little guy soooo much and pray I am wrong.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
@melissab
@Marci says:
Forced disappearance
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A forced disappearance (or enforced disappearance) occurs when a person is secretly imprisoned or killed …
Often forced disappearance implies murder. The victim in such a case is first abducted, then illegally detained, and often tortured; the victim is then killed, and the body is then hidden. Typically, a murder will be surreptitious, with the corpse disposed of in such a way as to prevent it ever being found, so that the person apparently vanishes. The party committing the murder has deniability, as there is no body to prove that the victim has actually died.
“`
this is how I use “disappeared” …
The other day we watched The Lord of the Rings/ Part 1-
This is a line From it-
quote “There are some who live but deserve death & some who die that deserve life.”
This just seemed to apply to everything going on w/in Kyron’s case.
riverpearl says:
October 5, 2010 at 7:37 pm
Hey Riverpearl, I had a really similar problem with my postings. It got worse and worse until finally, nothing I wrote would post at all. I tried everything, like you, and then gave up. For about three weeks I couldn’t post and it was driving me nuts-so out of desperation I decided to try my other email addy. My gmail had worked for a long time, but about the time of the update to BOC was when I stopped being able to post using it.
Others on here have tried using another email and said it worked well for them too. I now use my msn email addy and have had no further problems. Good luck!
Has anyone read the article @ the Oregonian:Multnomah County plans another search next weekend of Sauvie Island for Kyron Horman ?
“Besides the search effort, the sheriff’s office is finalizing the task force that will be in charge of the investigation. Lindstrand said several agencies have agreed to participate but that several others had declined, citing fiscal and >personnel concernspersonal concerns< mean in the investigative Task Force dealing w/ a missing child?)
Sorry, clicked post before adding link: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/multnomah_county_plans_another.html
Annals says:
October 5, 2010 at 11:00 pm
Re: MockingbirdSings says:
October 5, 2010 at 1:23 pm
AND
enumclawrose says:
October 5, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Mockingbird – I just can’t understand how RS legitimately worked at that school, unless we BOTH missed something.
——————
@Annals and enumclawrose –
I read all the grant information awhile back and again now. I have read every online issue of the skylineridgeneighbors and the other information about the project several times. I’m still a bit stuck on it because –
1 – Rudy supposedly did lawn maintenance. He was not licensed as a landscaper.
2 – The description of this project is too big for a small operation that does grass cutting. He could have removed ivy, but that’s typically a volunteer job (great for community service or Scouts). Rudy does not seem to have any known experience supervising volunteers, plus that would be beyond the scope of his business.
3 – The budget for this project seems big enough to hire a landscaping company which would do it all when supplemented by the volunteers (which included Scouts and a local church).
4 – If this lady is good enough to win these grants and put together such a great project, and have the support of the community, it seems she would probably be able to get a really good deal from one or more major local companies to do the work and support the school. To put the project together using money and resources from all these agencies, she would have had to create an adequate budget and a great plan.
This leads me back to a thought that pops into my mind regularly – someone connected Rudy’s business with the school project. (I doubt if he could afford to be a volunteer and still earn a living, but I suppose it’s possible.)
So who recommended Rudy to work at the school and would be a reliable enough reference to make it happen out of the project budget for a period of time (I still don’t know how many times he actually worked there)? It could have been Terri, but I’m not sure she had that much influence with the school and project leaders. I doubt that he was hired from craigslist or similar source for this kind of well organized project.
My first guess is that this was a woman having an affair with Rudy at the time, or (unknowingly) her husband, and that Rudy had already done work for them and continued to do so. We have seen in the past that Terri does not respect boundaries, so she may well have known who the woman was when she decided to go after Rudy by sexting.
This would explain why Terri, Rudy, Kyron and Kaine all know this person who must be either a parent, a staff member, a volunteer, or the wife of a staff member or volunteer – but at least someone well known and influential who was around the school a lot. There was a comment early on which I have mentioned before (but do not have a link) – it was said that people noticed Terri “batting her eyelashes” at Rudy at school. If Rudy ended his affair with this person, it would have been obvious why.
If this is true, it means Rudy and Kaine didn’t have to know each other, or if they did, Kaine may have recognized him at school and still might not have known Terri hired him to work at home. People who helped plan this project would be likely to know who recommended Rudy to work there, even if they didn’t know it mattered.
In another thread (or life, as the case may be) I had a theory that Rudy broke up with Terri rather than deal with her demands (I still believe that part), and she found another lover to absorb some of her anger at being dumped, but that the new lover was really someone who wanted Kyron and used the chance to make that happen.
In this current scenario, it’s Rudy who ended an affair with a woman connected to the school who was well known, well liked, and respected. He moves on (to Terri), but she doesn’t (she may or may not be married). She blames Terri. Kyron and Terri are both seen making friendly talk with Rudy at school when he’s around – Kiara is around too, making a little pretend family scene. Fueling the anger. It is likely she knows Kaine through school activities and can add “injustice to Kaine” to her anger, illogical as it is.
This woman would need help to take Kyron, but she knows all the same names we have been coming up with (not sure about DeDe), and more. NOBODY would suspect her if she were seen walking around with Kyron. She may have her own dark secrets or may have her own mental health issues she kept hidden.
She may have tried to get even with Terri in some other way first – like pretending to be friendly and involving her in something illegal she hoped would end up with Terri in jail. Terri may have taken the bait but not gotten caught – or the others involved liked her and the woman had to back down. (There could be any number of possibilities here.)
It’s fairly easy to make some guesses about what may have happened next. Some of us have said maybe she was planning to meet a lover, but what if the woman set her up for some other kind of (fake) meeting to get her away from school early?
One question I continue to ask myself is why, when it seems easy for her to get a baby sitter or to keep Kiara with her (as shown in old pictures of Terri at school), didn’t Terri volunteer to chaperone at the SF? Maybe she couldn’t because she had said there was a doctor appointment – but maybe that was an excuse for herself to avoid volunteering and she intended to tell the teacher the appointment was cancelled at the last minute.
Just my twist on things for tonight. MOO
Feel free to MOO me back.
“Besides the search effort, the sheriff’s office is finalizing the task force that will be in charge of the investigation. Lindstrand said several agencies have agreed to participate but that several others had declined, citing fiscal and *personnel concerns.” Oregonian [What are *personal concerns*in the investigative Task Force dealing w/ a missing child]) .This is the un-scrambled post @ 2:34am & the link: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/multnomah_county_plans_another.html
Malty says: October 5, 2010 at 3:37 pm
“Another odd but woman thing one says they are friends the other says no this does happen why in this case? Moo”
Here are your options:
1. They weren’t “friends” but something else that might look like friends (i.e. lovers, acquaintances, former roommates, AA sponsor/AA member, etc.). Given that both apparently drink and don’t appear to be trying to stop drinking, we can rule out AA member/AA sponor.
2. They were friends, but one of the two doesn’t want any connection to the allegations here.
3. LE is telling one of the two that disavowing the friendship will cause the other to break.
4. They are both involved up to their eyeballs, but one of them is trying desperately to cast herself a innocent.
Strictly MOO, but I can’t see anyone who is not a friend helping plan the other person’s 40th birthday party.
I also can’t see someone who is not a friend staying over at someone’s house overnight for several nights in order to protect her non-friend from harm and/or keep the non-friend company.
I especially cannot see a non-friend buying a throwaway phone in order to communicate with the other non-friend because of an ongoing law enforcement investigation. I’m not even sure I could see a friend doing that sort of thing (it seems a bit co-conspirator, not personal friend), but at least it’s more plausible.
Okay…I know I have linked to several older reports lately and I have another one of Blink’s “must reread” links as well.
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Basically: There isn’t anything significant to report right now and that’s been going on nearly the whole time.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
Don’t Kaine and Terri have a court date for tomorrow, the 7th, regarding the divorce?
I don’t understand why no buildings were searched this past weekend. And why hasn’t the task force been completed yet? (As far as who will be in it). It’s been over 20 days since they said the task force will change.
OT update-
Texas Govenor states he his trying to help the young woman Ms Hartley
whose husband was killed. Thank goodness it seems she will not be implicated.
RiverPearl, I know who/what you are referring to but for the life of me can’t find it right now. A Blinkster here will remember but you are right it, I believe, it’s a former detective giving his ‘feel’ of what happened. I agreed with it also.
About the school accepting Court Ordered Comm. hours…I really hope that Skyline is a place that would not accept co hours. A school, hospital, etc. usually doesn’t but as I said just now at SM, it’s Oregon and they do things their own way. If this is their practice to use people with court hours due, then that puts a whole new spin on inviting the vampire in! Morning all, have a great day, work calls! Don’t get me wrong, Oregon is a beautiful place I hope to visit one day but they march to the beat of their own drum. Seems to be a verrrrrrryyyyy liberal state. Maybe just a wee too liberal, heeheehee!
@midwestmom #17.
I have been wondering the same thing. Who is the guy in the picture with the little girl?
About the landscapers, grant, etc. I said I didn’t know, meaning if Rudy was hired under the grant that Jill wrote. I don’t know, but it has been my assumption that he was. I think someone here (our BOC poster Dee?) might have found the actual tie. Is Dee also the SM poster whose website is truecrime? If so, that’s her research. I’m not a member there, but if anyone is, you can go see how far she got with the Jill grant/Rudy connection.
I also assume that Skyline parents are aware of how Rudy and his crew came to work at the school. And perhaps know the names of his crew or how to find those. I assume, additionally, that they don’t want to make that info. public, or we would have known it before now.
Look at all my “assumes” here vs. my “knows”.
@enumclawrose: Elsy could, of course, been legally married to the children’s father when she took them. I was just trying to add other possibilities. Go to the link I’ll paste at the end of this post to research the relevant Oregon law. You can do a word search, for “custodial interference” or anything else you’re interested in. This is 2009 law; don’t know if there were any changes in the law in effect as of May when Elsy took the kids.
” 163.245 Custodial interference in the second degree. (1) A person commits the crime of custodial interference in the second degree if, knowing or having reason to know that the person has no legal right to do so, the person takes, entices or keeps another person from the other person’s lawful custodian or in violation of a valid joint custody order with intent to hold the other person permanently or for a protracted period….”
______________________
I interpret that to include a wife who is still married to her kids’ lawful father absconding with their kids. In that case, as Blink said, there would be no standing “custody order”. It’s still custodial interference.
What I don’t know is what would be the charge against Elsy if her children were wards of the state. Would the documents removing them from their parent(s) custody be called a “custody order”? Did Blink research that aspect? I don’t know.
http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/163.html
@neighbor: I know it sounds iffy to use court-ordered volunteers, but where I am a lot of those people wouldn’t be considered dangerous at all. Others, maybe.
Although, if one were predatory, and just happened to get court-ordered community service for some lesser offense, then the Hands-on program sure makes it easy. At the link below, you can search for the area you’d like to do your service in and the TYPE of service you’d like to do. Want to work around kids?? Just go to Search Opportunities (left nav. bar on Hands-on’s Home Page on their website) and find your ideal “opportunity”. This link will save you some navigation:
http://handsonportland.org/projects/viewProject.php?_mode=search&_clearFlag=course,specialevent
Just want to point out that the Hands-On program is NOT exclusively for court-ordered service volunteers. Read their “About” page and you’ll see it’s a conduit for all sorts of volunteers (does that make us all feel safer or–maybe not so much).
Maybe Skyline school parents would know what the school’s policy is when they use Hands-On volunteers. Do they allow the court-ord’d service ones? Or, just others. (And does that change anything??)
The really scary thing is that I believe there are TEACHERS in the system who still teach who have perhaps done far worse things than some of those doing the community service — and I mean bad things to children.
I posted a two part Oregonian Series a while back on what they refer to as “Passing the Trash.” I’m too lazy at the moment to find it again. You could Google if interested.
Frightening.
loreli48 says:
October 6, 2010 at 8:25 am
Yes, the divorce hearing is tomorrow, Oct. 7th.
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kaine–Terri-Horman-expected-in-court-today-101470199.html
@GraceintheHills “I found this article detailing the interview with TP. He clearly implies that Kyron was on his way to look at another student’s science project, which Ky refers to as “cool” and “electric.” Since many SFs have electric/battery operated exhibits, IMO, this is the most likely scenario.”
There was one classroom with all electrical projects.
@Satori “I did wonder about whether or not outside organizations participated.”
No
@alwayssunday “…As for Mr. P, I cannot locate any current address records on him so I haven’t a clue if he is still in the area or not..”
For all I know he lives is on Sheltered Nook Rd.
@Skyline parent “And I think I’m beginning to see why LE wanted us to keep our big mouths shut (although they said it much more politely).”
I have been trying to use only initials because we indeed do not know. All just speculation. Eventually time will tell, and all others will be cleared and chased by Google Search results.
alwayssunday says:
October 6, 2010 at 12:15 am
I feel like I’ve been banging my head against the wall for the last week while researching the vast number of folks “associated” with Rudy Sanchez. These people have a different alias for every day of the damn week! And each one can be found in 2-3 formats consisting of the same words arranged differently with hyphens in different places.
~~~
boy-oh-boy have you got this right!! Same info I found … I’ve come to the conclusion it’s the same damn 5 people … just changing the names up, using multiple residences at the same time, as well as multiple businesses.
I had not posted my findings … was hoping someone more skillful in internet search would be able to connect the dots.
good confirmation
@ Skyline parent,
Do you know who the man in the picture is that everyone is trying to figure out?
Are you aware of any “male chaperone’s with 2 girls” the day at the science fair?
And finally, do you know what the “cool electric one” is? or any ideas you’d be willing to share, as well as if it was located downstairs at the school?
thank you so much. I’m an oregonian too, just on the other side of the river, lol. SE suburb.
TO ALL!
I really think that if there was indeed a boot print found out the door it narrows the possibility greatly.
We have to think of WHO could have been wearing boots that day.
Have we all somehow discounted Dave Stenson???? Guys he lives in Scappoose/St Helens area! part of the area of Sauvie Island.
Read his website
http://www.gungadave.xbuild.com/ –
he went to Mexico around the same time KYron disappeared!!!!!!
from my comment above, Sauvie Island is not part of Scappoose or St helens, I meant, that its in the same area and one has to travel hwy 30 past Sauvie Island to get to either Scappoose or St Helens, My inlaws live in Scappoose and the areas are all one of the same and closely related.
Ooops again…that link didn’t post correctly. I was wanting to link a video from one of Blink’s posts on July 10th. Listening to it again reminded me of some of Blink’s key insights to the entire case. Really worth reviewing in MHO.
http://www.viddler.com/player/453929e9/
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
Skyline Parent said: My strong suspicion is that the scene unfolded exactly as he said – but on a day earlier in the week. And unknown to him – it was followed up by one of the adults hunting Kyron down in the bathroom or hallway and giving him a stern lecture about leaving the group without letting anyone know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Funny you mention this because if I recall correctly, TMH had a picture of the classroom kids and had a sarcastic comment about Kyron being in the bathroom at the time and noone knew where he was at, or something to that effect. I wonder if that sarcasm was on her FB since she first posted the pictures or after the fact (as some sort of cover or alibi.)
I am about a week behind reading here and I will probably never get caught up so sorry if I missed someone talking to me directly.
Just a comment on the Brian Pumala connection that a few of you are making. If he is truly involved, why wouldn’t Blink have profiled him in her latest article outlining the major players? And I would also think he would have to be allied somehow with Rudy Sanchez whom we know Blink implicates absolutely, yet I have read of no link between the two either here or elsewhere. I do agree that he would know both Kyron and his family and would be familiar with the school as well as having knowledge of things “electrical”, but I just don’t think he ultimately fits as far as a perp in this case. If he does fit, then LE is really good at keeping a tight lid on information.
I also want to say how spiritually upsetting this case has been for me, and I am sure for the rest of you. Consider that in order for this disappearance to have happened it is likely that 3 or more adults in Kyron’s immediate trusted community, including possibly his own step-parent, all possessing respectable “facades”, would have to have colluded in ushering an innocent into harm’s path. This case is demonstrating how easily that scenario can come to pass.
@SouthernMom – interesting about TH liking the t.v. show Dexter. It got me to wondering, if she had something to do with “disappearing” Kyron, would she employ one of Dexter’s methods of hiding the body from one of his episodes? Or would she conspire with someone else and tell them how to do it? I don’t watch the show (too gruesome) but Dexter must have some very specific methods for making bodies “unfindable.” MOO
@GraceintheHills
http://www.publicrecordsdetectivesjournal.co.cc/2010/08/kyron-horman-disappearance-this-is-what.html
This is well written and I fully believe this is what happened. Read to the end. The answer: TH
Excerpt from above web site:
Originally Published In Detectives Forums.
Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:00pm
“This conversation very possibly took place before 9:00am. It very possibly took place around 8:46am just after Kyron left his stepmother. The friend being only 8 years old may not be as aware of the actual time as he believes. Witnesses report what they believe they saw, what they believe happened, what they believe the time was. A lot of the time it just doesn’t fit.
It is reasonable to assume the friends grandmother told him that it’s time to go to class,because it starts at 9:00am. He could then think it is 9:00am because his grandmother told him so.
This same friend also said he saw Kyron’s step mom leave without Kyron, and that is all he said about that. I am not aware of any report that he said he saw her leave the building, go outside get in her car etc. The friend was on the second floor with Kyron so at best, all he could have seen was step mom go down the stairs. He did not say who went down the stairs first, Kyron or step mom. The friend only said they went down separately. The friend did not say he ever saw Kyron in his classroom that day. The friend said he saw Kyron in the hallway. Presumably just after Kyron left his stepmother. The friend was on the second floor. The friend had no way of knowing what happened on the first floor.
All of the events mentioned here took place on the second floor and currently all of the public news reports, video witness interviews etc, that I am aware of, are all second floor events.
The conversation between Kyron and his friend very possibly took place some time before 9:00am. I think Kyron was taken out of that school before 9:00am. It had to happen before the kids were in their seats looking out in the window. It had to happen before 9:00am because even though the halls would be momentarily clear, any people in them would stand out. A mass of parents leaving between 8:45am and 9:00am would provide excellent cover. It would have to happen before 9:00am to take advantage of the crowd and chaos that came with it. The school normally opens to students at 8:35am and the final bell rings at 8:45am. On Friday June 4 2010 the school opened early so students could tour the science fair with their parents. The school opened at 8:am that day. The bell times were not reset for the special event that day and all bells sounded at their normal times and so the final bell rang at 8:45am. This is presumably how Kyrons stepmother is certain of the time she claims she left him. That 8:45am bell also signaled go time and a plan was enacted by someone that knew the schools routines and procedures very well.
Taking a child from a school hallway is a high risk proposition for anyone at any time. Add a special event with hundreds of potential witnesses to the equation and a snatch and grab is just out of the question. While pedophiles may go to these events to meet children by way of meeting parents and posing as a safe friend, it would not be a good time for most to actually take a child. But the crowd and confusion could have been used as an advantage to someone with another plan. Someone that knew a phone call would not be made even after the absence was discovered. Someone needed time for the act and alibi and someone knew they would have it. This was not a crime of simple opportunity. This was also not done by some older kid. This act was committed by someone with adult knowledge,skills and with extremely detailed planing ability. You need a real plan to pull this off. You need to be extremely organized.
Kyron knew his abductor very very well and Kyron had no idea what was going to happen as he walked off very willingly with this person. To make this work your victim has to know you, trust you and even better, be waiting for you. Who did Kyron know and trust that he would wait for and leave with? Leaving without question or hesitation? Kicking and screaming would bring quick attention. Who would he voluntarily get in a car with? Who worked and or volunteered at that school enough to know the building, the security and the lack of it, who would blend in the best, who would be the most invisible while in plain sight. Who could best exit with Kyron unappreciated.
My guess is Kyron going down those stairs was a step in a very specific 8:45am plan. Kyron was sent down those stairs by someone he trusted. My guess is Kyrons abductor was positioned very close to Kyron that mourning watching Kyron and waiting for that 8:45am bell. At 8:45am the bell rang and Kyrons abductor moved to a new position as the plan was put in motion. Kyrons abductor moved away from the second floor activity’s of the day. Kyrons abductor would want to appear to be exiting alone. Kyrons abductor would move to the first floor so that they would not be noticeably seen with Kyron.
On the first floor Kyrons abductor was no longer making contact with anyone, no longer chatting with others. On the first floor Kyrons abductor would want to blend in and be invisible. Transparency would be vital. This person would not be appreciably noticeable to anyone. This person would fit so well in the environment that their activity was completely unappreciated. The attentions of the staff, students and visitors were completely focused on the science fair and the excitement. The search for Kyron brought in new information and now the focus has shifted to the criminal investigation. The investigations in these cases begin inside and work their way out. Who was Kyron with last? Who was close to Kyron? Who had the ability? Who had the knowledge? Who had the opportunity? Who had a motive? Who had a vendetta? Who felt Kyron was a burden. Who felt Kyron was an obstacle? Who did Kyron trust enough to leave with? The bell rang at 8:45am and before 9:00am Kyron was gone.”
PUBLIC RECORDS DETECTIVES FORUMS
Posted by justlogic – Editor at 11:31 AM
I’m in a position where I deal with lots of elected officials in the City of Gresham (if you remember, they declined being on the task force). I was at a function this morning and although I don’t even pretend to think it will change anything, I did express my displeasure to the Mayor and members of the Police Department. I know it’s a budget thing, and I understand that, but I still felt I had to mention my disappointment to them. Someone has to be *that* lady.
@ GraceintheHills & Riverpearl, THANK YOU! I have been looking for that post for a few months now. I read it, too, and it seemed well formulated. I mentioned it in a much earlier post as the best “how it was done” that I’d read, but could not cite the reference.
http://www.publicrecordsdetectivesjournal.co.cc/2010/08/kyron-horman-disappearance-this-is-what.html
I guess I will be the one who disagrees.
If anything, I think that Desiree DOES believe that Kyron left the school with Terri. Why? Well, it makes sense to me; if you want to believe that someone who acted as a pseudo-mother to your child for the majority of his life, cared for him .
If it’s a stranger abduction, or done for money or something, that person has not emotional connection and is more likely to harm Kyron. So, JMO, but I believe that Desiree’s ‘best bet’ is for Terri to be the one who left with Kyron that day; because despite what she says publicly about hindsight, she really does still want and need to believe that Terri wouldn’t hurt Kyron.
I believe she is confronting Terri in the media (or had been anyway) in order to provoke Terri to action, to defend herself, and to maybe come forward with that ‘proof’ that Kyron was/is in fact still alive.
Maybe I’m all alone here, but yeah, that’s the way I feel about it it. And despite my own personal dislike for Terri and her behavior; I think that the only way that Kyron could’ve been alive still, was if Terri was the one who left with him and handed him off. If it was a stranger abduction or revenge abduction (which I don’t believe for a minute), Kyron didn’t stand a chance.
enumclawrose says:
October 6, 2010 at 12:40 am
Thanks. I appreciate this link.
http://facilities.pps.k12.or.us/.docs/pg/11253
“In order for PPS Facilities to screen and approve your project, we will need . . . the conceptual design and scope of the project. For final approval, you will need to provide verification of funds for the project and to provide an agreement for long-term maintenance of the garden. Your Facilities Project Manager will work with you to verify that the project meets City and PPS codes and standards and to review your site plan with other PPS maintenance staff for approval.”
“Finally, any contractor or volunteer who will be on school grounds when students are present must have a background check and badge to protect the safety of our students. This link provides the required background check form for these volunteers and contractors. Note that project needs to allow time for and fund the costs of background checks and badges.”
“We recommend using a landscape architect or designer. The architect can help with designing such “hardscape” areas as constructed paths or courtyards. A designer is particularly knowledgeable about plant selection and placement. You may have garden designers or architects in your school community. They may be willing to volunteer their time for the project.”
—————-
The focus is definitely on volunteer help as much as possible. With as much support as it seems the school has in the community and with students going up to grade 8, one would think volunteer help would be adequate for maintenance, at least. (The recommended maintenance is 4 times a year, one of those probably being summer when school is out.)
A garden was mentioned by the turf technician who said he saw some students going out to look at it, but from the description in the other links, it seems the garden was not the whole project.
Do you think there is any chance Rudy would have worked as a volunteer to get his company’s name recommended to others? Maybe he would, but probably not anyone who was “crew”, so it would seem unlikely.
beejay says:
October 6, 2010 at 9:49 am
What I don’t know is what would be the charge against Elsy if her children were wards of the state. Would the documents removing them from their parent(s) custody be called a “custody order”? Did Blink research that aspect? I don’t know.
———–
My personal experience is that it is still custodial interference if the children are wards of the state, even if a parent has physical custody. The seriousness (degree) is greater if taken out of state. At some point, according to Portland Police detectives, a kidnapping charge can be used. (I am not an attorney, I am simply familiar with one similar case.)
Following are quotes from the link GraceintheHills provided (thank you) to an article mentioned by Riverpearl (thank you):
GraceintheHills says:
October 6, 2010 at 12:01 am
Riverpearl, I think I may have found it. This is a very thoughtfully formulated and well-written article that I think is worth the read. It was previously posted on a detective forum, but was moved.
http://www.publicrecordsdetectivesjournal.co.cc/2010/08/kyron-horman-disappearance-this-is-what.html
quotes and comments:
“My guess is Kyrons abductor was positioned very close to Kyron that mourning watching Kyron and waiting for that 8:45am bell.”
(me) “mourning” – a sad misspelling
“On the first floor Kyrons abductor would want to blend in and be invisible. Transparency would be vital. This person would not be appreciably noticeable to anyone. This person would fit so well in the environment that their activity was completely unappreciated.”
(me) What activities occur on the first floor that would fit this comment? It seems it would depend on who was trying to blend in. A uniformed person or someone with a tool box or a parent/staff member routinely seen might have different ways of blending in. (I include staff because some staff is not classroom bound – librarian, cafeteria worker, secretary, etc.)
“Unfortunately Kyrons stepmother would not be attending the school talent show with the other parents.”
(me) Several posters online commented very early that the talent show was for the kids to have fun, and parents weren’t specifically invited. I do not have a link, but it would be easy for a parent to verify.
“This same friend also said he saw Kyron’s step mom leave without Kyron, and that is all he said about that. I am not aware of any report that he said he saw her leave the building, go outside get in her car etc. The friend was on the second floor with Kyron so at best, all he could have seen was step mom go down the stairs.”
(me) This is the same thought I had, plus it was possible for her to leave without Kyron visible in the truck, because we know SOMEONE did. Not saying yes or no, just possible.
“The bell times were not reset for the special event that day and all bells sounded at their normal times and so the final bell rang at 8:45am.”
(me) I asked this question before and I looked at last year’s Skyline Schedule and other comments, but haven’t found this verified. Unfortunately, the detective doesn’t provide links. My experience with schools is that it isn’t hard to reset bells, but is sometimes overlooked. It is somewhat annoying and confusing if you don’t reset bells – for example, if teachers expect students to report at a certain time and are out of their classroom for whatever reason (SF, bathroom, hall duty, etc.), then a bell rings 15 minutes early, you feel you have to be 2 places at once – and some students will follow the bell signals and others will wait and say the bell is wrong. It’s not fun and someone (such as the principal) usually goes through the halls directing everyone to where they are supposed to be. There would also be no warning bell before the 9 AM time.
I do appreciate his comments. They are not unlike many of our own, but following his (or her) train of thought is interesting.
Marci says: October 5, 2010 at 4:26 pm
“Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but this is the first case where I have read multiple times people say ‘TH dissapeared KY’ Not ‘TH had something to do with KY dissapearing or his dissapearance’ Weird . Has anyone else noticed this?”
melissab says: October 5, 2010 at 10:27 pm
“Yep, I doggone sure have. May or may not be correct but every time is see it like that I want to change the structure of the sent. to what I am used to. lol Please don’t get mad anyone just can’t get my mind used to it. It’s distracting when reading about Kyron. That’s all. Not a fan of change! Marci, I even posted the same thing about a week ago here. In the grand scheme of things it means absolutely nothing, I know!”
I had not noticed this syntax, and I was suprised to find several posts when I Googled “disappear Kyron” and “disappeared Kyron.”
IMHO, this is not only bad sentence structure, it’s also a bit like passive voice. Rather than directly link the subject (a person) and the verb (the action), the author’s odd choice of words distances the subject from the action.
A sentence using passive voice would read, “Kyron was kidnapped.” Note that the sentence does not state who took the action, but instead put the direct object as the subject.
In this case, the author is using a transitive verb (disappear) rather than a direct object (disappearance) that would require directly linking the subject to the action.
Saying “Terri disappeared Kyron” is not only awkward, it distances the subject (Terri) from action of having caused Kyron’s disappearance.
The sentence’s intended meaning is to connect Terri as the source of Kyron’s disappearance. As such, it should read, “Terri caused Kyron’s disappearance,” “Terri kidnapped Kyron, or “Terri orchestrated Kyron’s kidnapping.”
As others have noted, this wording is so unusual, it begs the question, is there even more than one person who would use the word “disappear” in that way, and in connection with this case?
The sentence structure of “Terri disappeared Kyron” could be due to language difficulties by a non-native speaker. To me, the syntax sounds like it could be the same syntax used in Spanish.
I understand some spoken Spanish but am not conversant in it. I would appreciate others’ input on whether my observation is correct.
There are also certain mental illnesses that affect an individual’s language, including syntax and word choices.
I don’t have time to do it right now, but later this evening, I will look up the various “disappeared Kyron” and “disappear Kyron” references and see if they have other similarities.
IIRC, the strange youtube.com videos regarding this case also invoked some oddball sentence structure as well. Where is Seamusoreily when you need him or her?
beejay says:
October 5, 2010 at 3:11 pm
As to the Sanchez-Elsy and her 2 children connection: I believe that can best be researched by a local with feet on the ground and the ability to befriend people and get them talking. Or possibly with a personal contact in the local agencies that handle custody/kids in state custody.
‘Who had legal custody of Elsy’s kids?’ That’s the question. Her daughter, Jamie Mejia, at age 5, might have been enrolled in public school pre-K? (Don’t know the system out there.) We have a couple of address possibilities here. Earlier I ran down and posted here the elementary school that she would have attended if her residence was at one of the 2 addys we identified where a Sanchez relative of Elsy’s might live.
Again, a local who knows school staff in the schools Jamie might have been enrolled in will need to follow up through their personal contacts.
Some of this sleuthing has to be done the old fashioned way.
————————–
@beejay – I appreciate your posts and especially the questions you toss out, including these. However, I have to add a personal comment.
I know it’s possible to do the “old fashioned” sleuthing, but I really hope school and agency staff members are not going to give out personal information about children to those without authority and permission to request it. I can think of a handful of cases immediately which involve abuse and restraining orders and the hope that where a child lives or attends school will not be easy to find out. I would be disappointed to know a school or state agency gave out this information improperly.
That said, there are many private pre-schools available as well as daycare when parents work. The county education service districts manage the Early Start, Head Start, and pre-K programs for children who need extra help. The school district allows parents to apply for schools out of their area that have special programs – environmental studies, Spanish immersion, etc.
I am assuming LE has checked out TH’s alibi’s re: Dr.s appointment, whether Ky had a lunch for that day or lunch money, people at the school, etc and they have answers. If they have no other evidence other than cell pings and MFH pillowtalk they would have cleared her. We are trying to think “outside the box” and cover all possibilities but I keep coming back to what’s in the box i.e. TH and associates. I think she’s fully involved and LE is trying to find the “nest”. Kyron was blindsided by his step-mom and a ransom was staged to throw his disappearance into a tailspin which it did. This investigation could go on for a long time even if/when there’s a recovery or unless there’s a confession. I also believe they will solve this case. JMO.