David Hartley Gunned Down On Jet Ski In Mexico : Tiffany Young-Hartley Facing Scrutiny
According to his wife, Tiffany Young-Hartley, who called 911, David Hartley, 30, was gunned down by Mexican pirates while the couple ventured across the Falcon Resovior lakes US border to take pictures of the “Mexican Atlantis” or Old Guerreo.
Hartley says her husband was shot in the head and as a result “flew” off his jet ski while the couple was returning from the landmark on the Mexican side of the lake, after taking pictures. She goes on to say she became aware of 3 different boats chasing down the couple only after she saw bullets hitting the water next to her. As she turned around to see where they were coming from, she claims she witnessed her husbands murder.
David was driving a new Sea Doo RXT ski that can climb from 0–30MPH in 1.7 seconds and is capable of top-end speeds of over 60 MPH. Blinkoncrime.com has not been able to confirm which model Ms. Hartley was driving. The couple had been on at least one earlier jet ski jaunt while still in Mexico, but was cut short due to a mishap with David’s craft on June 20th.
According to his wife, David was face-down in the water, wearing a life vest, after he was shot.
Despite the horror of what she had just witnessed and astonishingly avoiding injury to her or her watercraft, she circled back around, jumped off her jet ski, and turned her 250 lb. husband upright to observe the gunshot wound to his forehead. You read that correctly, according to Tiffany Hartley, while being chased from behind, David was shot from the front. Hartley maintains this is when she attempted to load him onto her jet ski, and also when two of the three boats were now positioned in front of her.
One of the alleged pirate boats from the front approached her within 10 ft. While she stared down the barrell of his gun, she was holding onto her husband with one hand, her ski with the other asking not to be shot. Apparently through some sort of Mexican telepathy or nautical sign language, the men who just ambushed the couple and murdered her husband in cold blood, made a decision to let her go and retreated IN FRONT OF HER.
Hartley claims she cannot identify any of the men, that they never said a word to her nor could she hear anything they may have said to each other, but believes the motive for the attack to be robbery or to kidnap her. It is not clear how Tiffany arrived at this conclusion as they never made an attempt to stop them or ask them for their money, she was off her $13,000 Sea doo they could have easily taken, and they let her go.
It was at this time that Hartley finally did hear something. She says she heard the voice of God tell her to leave David, save herself and get to safety. However, his instruction must have been non-specific because she proceeded to mount her ski in deep water, start it back up, and drive directly toward and then past the very band of gun weilding murderous cartel who minutes ago gunned down her highschool sweetheart and spouse of 8 years. (Editors note: I cannot imagine the nerve it takes to again have your back to the same crew who, unprovoked, sprayed the lake with bullets behind you while you were fleeing for your life).
While Tiffany admits the couple was aware of recent pirate activity in the area they learned about while David researched the location, she claims they had not heard of anymore incidents on Falcon Lake, which borders both Texas and Mexico, “in a while.”
The Hartley’s, who had recently been on a few tropical vacations, were in the process of relocating to Colorado next week from Reynosa, Mexico and McAllen Texas, where they had lived for only a few months, following David’s transfer request to Calfrac well services.
According to recent Facebook postings, although the couple could not agree on furniture tastes, they recently purchased a house full of it just after a luxury cruise and visit to a seminar for those experiencing financial difficulty.
I would love to be able to do no analysis and regergetate this story as reported by main stream media whereby not one reporter asks the obvious question:
After several known incidents of piracy in that location over the last months, why would the “pirates” suddenly go on a murderous rampage in lieu of attempting to rob a couple on jet skis that could outrun them on sight?
Not gonna happen. I have heard umpteen versions of Ms. Hartley’s version of events leading to the random execution of her husband.
None pass the smell test. However, just today, Zapata County Sheriff “Sigi” Gonzalez, Jr says his investigation, now aided by a witness who is a long standing member of the Zapata community, exonerates Mrs. Hartley of any wrongdoing.
Gonzalez completely rules out foul play on the part of Mrs. Hartley.
“A local witness saw Tiffany Hartley escaping on her jet-ski to the Texas side of the lake,” he said. “She came in at high speed and was being pursued by armed men in a Mexican fishing boat that that the witness clearly observed.”
Gonzalez said the witness was a long-standing member of the Zapata community who was well known to him and regarded as highly credible.
“The testimony of this witness dispels any idea Mrs. Hartley was involved in any wrongdoing regarding the murder of her husband,” he said firmly. “She called in a 911 phone call to our office at around 2:20 p.m. on the day of the incident, immediately after she got to shore, and her statements to my office confirm what the local witness observed.”
Unfortunately, the witness account does not match Tiffany Hartley’s own version of events. At no time has she ever said that she was again chased by the “pirates”, in fact, she claims she left them behind after driving “through” them.
Hartley references recent pirate activity, which is almost verbatim what she says happened to her and David, with the exception of the actual piracy:
On April 30, five people in two different boats were fishing on Falcon Lake and went to the Old Guerrero area, where they were taking photos of the old church. While they were there, a boat with four heavily tattooed men approached the two boats quickly. The men identified themselves as “Federales,” but they were not wearing uniforms. The men boarded the boats, demanded cash and asked “where are the drugs?” The fishermen told the men that they had no drugs and were just fishing and taking photos. They ended up giving the men $200 cash and left the area. The pirates followed the two boats, but the U.S. boats were able to outrun them and the men stopped following once the two boats entered U.S. waters.
In every recorded incident since April, the heavily tattoed pirates posing as “Federales” without uniforms, came upon anchored fishing boats, boarded them, robbed the fisherman at gunpoint of any personal cash, searched for drugs left without any violence. In the Hartley family interview on the Today show, Tiffany states that after David was hit, she circled around, jumped off her jetski, swam over to her husband and because he was “face down in the water” she had to turn him over where she discovered he was shot in the head.
It would seem I am not alone in my quagmire. Mexican Investigators, who hold jurisdiction have already begun to question Ms. Hartley’s story.
Marco Antonio Guerrero Carrizales, the district attorney for the Miguel Aleman Province adjoining Falcon Lake on the Mexican side, has questioned whether Tiffany Hartley was involved in foul play.
Early this morning, Sheriff Sigi Gonzalez announced the Mexican Authorities will be searching the area where David Hartley was murdered, and have committed to “not leaving” until they find him. Tiffany Hartley, accompanied by her parents, but without David’s, filed a missing person report at the Mexican Consulate last night as a matter of procedure to “get the ball rolling”.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates
Madeline Tanner, contributing editor blinkoncrime.com
Images by Klaasend
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Oh Blink,
I guess I should have added the option of you thinking he is still alive and this being a insurance scam. However I had read earlier that you no longer thought he was alive. But peoples opinions change all the time! You opinion is important to me, because all of your articles I read, you seem to be well informed and spot on! Thanks for your work!
I guess I would lean towards believing that it could have been a drug deal gone bad. Perhaps David did get shot and she then had to make up additional details to cover up the real reason they were where they were. I will feel bad if they discover she has been telling the truth but I just don’t find her believable. If that were my daughter or sister, I would try and persuade her to not give any interviews, indicating that she was far too distraut.
What’s with the morning headlines? “Mexico Reportedly IDs Two Suspects in Pirate Attack”. Geesh, even Tiffany said there were 3 boats with many men on them and she cannot ID any of them. Of course she couldn’t understand any of them too, even though she speaks Spanish (Tex-Mex). I saw her on an interview about a week ago saying she had heard of Pirates on that lake, but hadn’t heard in a while, so they thought it would be ok to cross over and take pictures of the Church. Then a few days ago, on another interview, she said that she had not heard of Pirates on the lake. This girl keeps changing her story. I really think this was all a plan that Tiff and David are a part of; one big plan with some payoffs. First off, she’s not eager to take a poly, to clear her of any wrong doing. Second, the memorial service was in record ‘fast’ time, despite there was still a search going on for him. Third, she didn’t even bother to see if her husband was still alive, she just said ‘God told me to get out of there’. People have been known to survive gunshot wounds to the head. David could have been unconscious. Finally, there was only a tiny little smear of blood on Tiff’s vest, however she said she was trying to lift his body onto her jetski. With a head wound and blood running down into the water and onto David, it seems there would be much more blood on her vest, than a tiny smear. I even read it wasn’t even very visible to the naked eye. The tiny smear could have been from David cutting his finger earlier, trying to get the jetskis in the water. The Sheriff is the one who is so quickly stating ‘oh, we have evidence: we have one witness that lives on the lake, which helped Tiffany call 911 and a tiny drop of blood on her vest’. Sorry, but that’s not enough evidence to make Tiff’s story stand up.
This couple lived in Mexico for 3 years. They have connections on that side of the border. I wonder if Tiffany had the memorial service too quickly so she could get the paperwork going on life insurance. This couple may have not wanted to go back to boring old life style in their hometown in Colorado; instead they wanted to live in Mexico and travel, continue with their expensive and fun lifestyle. According to the above article from Blink, this couple attended financial help seminars. There was case not too long ago, where an author/teacher from the USA went down to Mexico and paid off a Mayor of a small Mexico town, to help him come up with a plan to make it look like his wife was dead, so he could collect 3 life insurance policies. The Mexican Mayor went along with his plan. Wonder if someone was paid off in Mexico, to pick up David on that side. Tiffany was so quick to let the 911 operator that David was on the Mexico side, indicating they cannot recover his body. No body and no witnesses to the crime against David. The one witness on shore doesn’t want to be ID’d and he said he only saw one boat chasing Tiff. Could that boat be a part of the plan? Maybe. Could there be any boarder pictures, of this couple’s truck crossing the border days before this happened?
I find it hard to believe that she even said the words “get on with my life.” My God woman! It’s only been two weeks that your husband was murdered (according to you!), and all you can worry about is getting on with your life? Something’s stinkin up the place really bad. Are we going to have to wait for 6 months to see who she ends up with or if she disappears into thin air?
@Madilu – I watched the interview you refer to where Tiffany said at the end (PP) “if anyone knew David and me they would never doubt us…” and I see where you’re going with that. She just couldn’t bring herself to say, “no one would doubt ME” because it’s too close to her guilt over something. So she slipped and said, “us.” It could be translated to “they would never doubt our story” meaning David is alive and hiding somewhere and they planned this, but then it could also be translated as “they would never doubt our love for each other and therefore wouldn’t question the truthfulness of my story.” I’m kind of leaning your way, that she just keeps putting her foot in her mouth because she’s not telling the truth. My dad, rest his soul, would have said the entire story is “cockamamy” and I really have no idea where that expression came from but it just means it doesn’t make sense, or bluntly, bull$**t.
The problem with this whole statement is, how much they love/loved each other has nothing to do with whether Tiffany would or would not lie. Would she lie if she DID love him and they wanted to collect insurance money together (meaning David is not dead)? Duh, I think so. Would she lie if she DIDN’T love him and she was trying to collect insurance money with a boyfriend on the side (meaning David IS dead and maybe the boyfriend was lying in wait at the church or somewhere else “in the bush” and then offed him and hid the body/jetski)? Another duh. So I don’t get her trying to connect love and lying. MOO
And P.S. – this whole thing about guns being pointed at her – has anyone asked her what kind of guns? I mean, even she could surely tell the difference between a handgun and a rifle, being as gun-savvy as she is…you know, the rifle has the longer barrel…. MOO
Yes Blink- I agree.
Bloggers & Reporters such as you & Greta & Shepard Smith, Michele Malkin & Wendy Murphy-ect, even if Tiffany’s story proves to be the complete truth,
You al would have nothing to apologize for, as you were only doing your jobs, asking questions-something some reporters seem hard-pressed to do-
I always thought that reporters were there to ask All the questions that their viewers would want to ask, had they themselves had a chance to ask them. Even questions that seem rude or pushy or too insensitive. Asking these “hard hitting” questions in a professional way, with tact, and in context, is why they are professional reporters and not just viewers… JMO
Shepard Smith asked questions early on. M. Malkin wrote that piece , which I posted earlier, and Wendy Murphy also wrote a piece entitled “Why We, First Suspect The Spouse” for which some loyal viewers responded with Fox- Please, Take her off the air.
Here are the links:
whttp://btx3.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/a-fish-story-mexican-pirates-on-lake-in-texas/
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/10/06/wendy-murphy-mexico-texas-tiffany-hartley-pirates-lake-jet-ski-shot-head-god/
I have to be honest, between the cases we have covered and the lack of accountability on the part of the main stream media, I am beginning to wonder if people realize the influences of their perceptions of current events by folks that know half what you do.. Bizarre.
B
For all those quoting Wikipedia, just a note of caution…
Wikipedia is open source, open editing. It is like getting info off a graffiti wall or a number off a bathroom stall. The info could be valid, but it can also be highly manipulated. Wikipedia is a good portal to find out more info on a subject, and it is better to click on the links in making up the entry than to use Wikipedia as the sole reference…
Especially use caution for hot button issues or subject in the news. Wikipedia can be very unreliable.
This clip includes an interview with David’s father, Dennis.
http://cbs4denver.com/video/?id=75068@kcnc.dayport.com
“His son is presumed dead. His body still has not been found.”
“Information coming out of Mexico has also been tough to deal with. As soon as Dennis heard the news, he contacted the FBI agent on the case.”
“He said they can not confirm that any of this is true, they can not even find the source for where this information came from at this point.”
——
The FBI is on the case, which case? The agent said none of this can be confirmed- Was he speaking in regards to the whole incident, or just the info coming out of Mexico? How did they confirm Tiffany’s story as true? If speaking only of the Mexico information, does this mean they really have no suspects- or is there more info out of Mexico that we are not privy to?
Does anyone else find it odd that Tiffany kept on calling her Jet-ski a “BOAT” in her interview with Greta V? Here are her exact words per quote:
Tiffany Hartley says: “One actually came up to my BOAT, (then she corrects herself); my jet ski, and they pointed the gun at me”.
Tiffany Hartley says: ”I got on my BOAT (she never corrects herself this time) and I was trying to pull him up on my ski. And I couldn’t get him up. I felt like god was telling me I had to go otherwise I wasn’t going to make it out. I had to go past them. So I on my ski and I had to leave David behind”.
> Why was she repeatedly calling her jet ski a boat? She even says she got onto her BOAT. Anyone hear of David and Tiff owning a boat?
———————————————————-
Responding @.Madilu says: Tiffany says in an interview “IF they knew David and I, if they knew our relationship, and, you know, knew us personally, then they wouldn’t doubt us one bit.”
— Really? “us?” They would not doubt “US”???? Wow. Does anyone else think that is a fascinating statement?
—————————————————————
>Madilu, yes, that is a very odd answer. Especially how she says no one would doubt “us” (why would anyone need to doubt David, in this case??? Isn’t he supposed to be dead??). Why not answer “if anyone knew “me”, they would know I could never hurt my husband and no one would doubt “me” and that I loved my husband”.
@ode..
If David had Life Insurance that is tied to his workplace, then it wouldn’t could not be liable to what happened off the workplace, as it would cover workplace accidents, or something while he was on the job. If he purchase life insurance on his own, it could also be a problem. It depends what the coverage states of activities that it won’t cover and the coverage. Calfrac would have Mexican Insurance for David, but it would be mainly for workplace.
The liability by the insurance company could also be lessen, because David and Tiffany entered Mexico illegally, and they were on activities not covered by the life insurance, like jet skiing, or it doesn’t cover marine accidents. Ditto if they hypothetically had Marine Insurance.
There are many financial industries that are sticklers for the letter of the laws, and Insurance companies are by far, the ultimate sticklers. If there is validity to Tiffany’s story, they will probably quietly settle the matter. However, if she files a claim with the same information that is known today, (No body, no suspects, no evidence trail of an ambush) then they will turn down her claim.
“staring down the barrel of a gun”
I was at work one day when a guy came in with a double barrel shotgun, pointed it at me, told me not to move, and grabbed our bank deposit bag that was on the bosses desk.
I’m not gun savvy but I could describe that gun in detail to the cops, (I still can see that gun in my mind today) and while I didn’t really look at the perp. I was able to tell the cops what color clothes he wore, what nationality he appeared to be, and other details that helped catch him.
And my encounter lasted no more than 2 mins.if that. Tiffany had a lot more time. She easily could have described the alleged attackers and the weapon.
As an aside, I just want to note my observation as to the way you phrased the last word of your post.
You were a victim of a crime involving a double barrell shotgun, and you use the word weapon. You distance yourself from your crime as you comment on something that to you, is nothing like that. This is very important for readers to see.
People that are victims identify with other victims, I see none of that.
Bi
PRIVATE
I had a post go bye-bye. I had a link to the Denver Post article quoting Tiffany’s father, plus one with photos of her mother.
Is it hiding on your end?
lizzy
No friend, checked all the cupboards and the mud room, sorry, please re-post.
B
I apologize if my thoughts have already been covered…just now found this site. My thoughts…Tiffany said the boats saw them heading for the church, seems to me that that the criminals would have followed them and stolen both of the jetskis. Also, if David indeed was really driving the white truck…SEEMS like he would have possesion of the truck keys when they launched jetskis into lake. (This could open up a new round of questions, wonder how she’d answer them?) Wonder if she was able to depart the lake area in David’s truck? News showed it parked at Sheriff’s office. Would he have put keys in drybox with camera? Or would she have had to dig them out of his shorts pocket? Anytime we ride our jetski’s….I keep the keys with me….my wife doesn’t want possession of them…it would be a disaster to lose them them in the water and be stuck. (IF Tiffany had her own set of truck keys…thinking they would be locked in truck?)
After reading many accounts and posts on this case, I am going to eliminate the possibility of drugs and/or government agent scenario.
The reason I say that is that when you are involved in either, the number one priority is to keep a LOW PROFILE!! Anyone who works for the government knows that and anyone who is dealing in daily crime knows that, DO NOT DRAW ATTENTION TO YOURSELF!
This lady is begging for attention. Which tells me this is either murder for hire or insurance money scam perpetrated by both husband and wife. I believe she said something in an interview about “if they knew us they wouldn’t doubt us”?? Very strange statement. That lends itself to both of them being involved.
I’ve seen a few posts on here with questions about life insurance. A lot of life insurance policies will not be issued, until the person is legally, proven dead. There was a local case, in nearby town, where a wife could not get her husband’s life insurance policy, because his body was never found. He went out hunting one day, but never returned. It took her years in court to finally get him legally noted as being deceased and it wasn’t until 10 years after he went missing, she was finally able to collect his $500,000 life insurance policy.
As for work, company policies: It’s not true, that companies will only pay out life insurance to people who die on the job, while working for the company. David’s company is based in the USA but have hubs all over, so they cover both the US and Mexico side. My husband just got a new job 6 months ago and he wanted to add more life insurance, because his company gave him a good deal. We had to go through a ton of paperwork, but I clearly remember reading that his beneficiary could collect on his life insurance policy, provided by his place of work, even if he died, while off the clock or was killed in an accident that was not work related.
-Mexico Denies Report Of Suspects In Hartley Case-
(notice they make no mention of Dennis’s earlier comment that the FBI could not confirm the info either)
http://cbs4denver.com/local/tiffany.hartley.david.2.1957220.html
“I would say that there is no doubt that what Tiffany is saying happened did happen. They were a perfect couple and they were very much in love and enjoyed life and adventures together,” Dennis said.
–No couple is perfect, and no one could know what is in the heart of another- JMO
Honestly, I can so see that going on here.
Grief is bad enough, could one contemplate the unthinkable at the same time?
Self Preservation is very, very powerful.
B
This statement goes right to your earlier response, Blink, regarding your disbelief of how the parents were just believing blindly in Tiffany’s account- Perhaps to believe it was all lies is just too hard for them to face?
nana2 says:
October 10, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Thanks for posting that- I haven’t watched it for myself yet, but I did run across Seamus’s analysis- it is quite interesting
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/10/tiffany-hartley-deceptive-geraldo-show.html
GraceINH, Hi, thanks for posting that link, I can see exactly what David’s father was referring to-
Its a shame that there was such a rush to report in this case that the facts and contradictions of “facts” seem to be left out entirely-
I think perhaps Gonzalez is not the only one saying HUH? nor is the only one that seems to be wondering if perhaps he spoke too soon and relied on unconfirmed info. I really hope this is all sorted out and the truth of what happened & who is to blame can be found regardless of the missteps….
Hi Blink. I see I’m still in moderation. Am I in trouble?
Yes. Dire.
Report To My Office at Once with 3 potatoes and some plastic fake eyes, glasses, noses and shoes.
Don’t dawdle.
lol, I have nothing for you, checked everything, please repost.
B
@ melissab says:
October 10, 2010 at 9:22 pm
“think that if she had someone do this then she may have given this person enough time to race back to where he was parked waiting with a trailer and could drive anywhere…”
*********************************************************
The timeline will reveal exactly how much time she gave anyone for a head start…I have started a TIMELINE, and if anyone can fill in the blanks, then great!
9:00am: TYH says they decided at 9 in the morning to go to Falcon Lake
11:30am-11:40am: DPS stop ( McAllen to Rio Grande City = 41 miles from McAllen, 47 minutes.
12:45pm: -rough estimate of when they would have arrived in Zapata (Rio Grande City to Zapata 53 miles, 57 minutes. )
Xx:xxpm: Subway lunch –spotted by a U.S. Border Patrol agent at Subway (408 Hwy 83, Zapata TX 78076) OR was it 4023 E Hwy 83, Ste 110, Rio Grande City TX 78582?)
Xx:xxpm: Zapata County boat ramp: Any witnesses see them arrive/park/launch??
Xx:xxpm: Ride to Old Guerrero –at 60mph, could have taken ~10 minutes? (They rode about one mile to the international boundary —and then headed 7 miles southeast up the Salado river to the ruins.
Xx:xxpm – Time spent at the church; according to TYH, never got on land, did not picnic –just snapped a few pictures and headed out again (5 minutes total?)
Xx:xxpm -whatever happened, happened
Xx:xxpm -TYH ride back to shore ~10 minutes?
Xx:xxpm -Need the exact location/TIME of the point she returned to shore to Good Samaritan
Xx:xxpm -911 call time
Xx:xxpm -Met up with Sheriff –location?
Xx:xxpm -Sheriff/LE launched a search on US side??? Where was Tiff during this time? Hospital?
Xx:xxpm -Sheriff/LE concluded their search on US side???
Xx:xxpm -a couple heard gunshots, assumed it was dove hunters?
Statement Analysis:
Monday, October 11, 2010
Does Tiffany Hartley Know the Shooter?
(snip)
Perhaps the most shocking of her statements:
“Honestly, I don’t even care to have justice right now.”
This is an indication of softness towards the shooter.
snip..
Posted by Seamus O Riley at 12:04 PM
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/10/does-tiffany-hartley-know-shooter.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
I am sorry I keep posting and hogging the board today.
The more I research the mire I find and the more I just need to share..
Here is another interview with Tiffany- I seriously can not understand the language she chooses to use
To me this quote is UNBELIEVABLY callous-
“Me being a Christian and believing in God, I believe he lined all that up, he lined up the traffic stop, he lined up us going to Subway and having the Border Patrol there so my story would be supported by events that happened,” she said.
God was looking out for her- he lined everything up to help prove her “story” What? Most family’s of murdered love ones IMO, at this point 2 weeks after the horror of losing their loved one, wouldn’t they still be questioning the why’s of what happened? Why David? Why would God forsake us? – Well Tiffany seems to know that God lined it all up and He protected her and He saved her- but not any mention of David and God’s relationship to Him- just seems extremely OFF putting to me.
Maybe I am too cynical, but if this was my son, I would not be able to hold my tongue with her saying stuff like that. JMO
BTW HOW does this traffic stop and her lunch prove HER story? God would definitely do better than that IMO, if he had any hand in proving her innocence JMO again
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/hartley_family_says_theyre_not_leaving_without_david_104711294.html?c=y&page=2#storytop
Oye Vey.
Seriously.
B
FOX doing a Tiffany segment right now.
@crimesolver
I apologize if my thoughts have already been covered…just now found this site. My thoughts…Tiffany said the boats saw them heading for the church, seems to me that that the criminals would have followed them and stolen both of the jetskis….
————————————————–
>>Exactly. These pirates are not known for randomly shooting at people on the lake. They are known for boarding fishing boats and robbing people for cash or drugs. Who carries cash on jetskis; like jet skiers have a place to put their wallet. Why on earth, would they let Tiff go. A young blonde girl with a 30K jetski? She says when she tried to get David on to her Jetski they were right in front of her with a gun, but then left back to the other boats, without saying a word. Her story does not go along with these Pirates M.O.!
Her story makes no sense. I’ve heard her say two different stories about the part where they come up to her. One is where she says ‘God told her to get out of there’ and the other is ‘she saw her chance to escape’. She never mentions the boat shooting at her again, even though it chased after here, AGAIN, back into US waters. If they were after robbery, they would of took her Jetski right there and then, when they had the chance and when the gun was ‘supposedly’ pointed at her. Also, where is this camera? Weren’t they out there to take pictures of a Church. Did they buy a special waterproof camera for this trip? Who takes a digital camera out onto jetskis, in water, to get pictures? And one last note….. I’ve heard her say ‘fishing boats’ and ‘speed boats’. Which one is it?
@ Madilu says:
October 11, 2010 at 5:14 pm
re:
Xx:xxpm – Time spent at the church; according to TYH, never got on land, did not picnic –just snapped a few pictures and headed out again (5 minutes total?)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They went all that way & wasted all that gas for 5 minutes when they could have done that at anytime when they lived in Mexico ? hmmm
Also TH claims that the camera they used that day is on DH’s jetski because he was the photographer in the family & she wasn’t.. Well I wonder who took all of those absolutely great action & still shots of David ? Did they always take a photographer with them ?
hmm TH on Jane Velez Mitchell now..
Thanks for posting, nana2~!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39612179#39612179
Splain to me someone please -why TYH has possession, and is showing Today show the very life vest which is essentially the ONLY piece of, physical “evidence” associated with this case??? For chrissakes, KH doesn’t even have the science project back yet, and that is still a missing persons case too!
Are there any LE professionals involved??? Obviously have no intention of prosecution or follow through on this case? Would love to hear from YOU!
Jane Velez Mitchell asking JH about taking a poly again.. She still claims its an option.. hope they put this video on HLN web site..
I also read that about “GOD” I feel poor David wasn’t in God favor that day. How sad huh? This is how I see it. God told David not to go that day because his wife may try to kill him. Just saying.
Jane Velez Mitchell is fawning all over TH..
I think a reality star has been born. Tiffany is on JVM right now not only is she a chatty cathy, border expert and thinks the White House needs to intervene, but states the many incidents that her and her husband knew about PRIOR to their trip into the Mexican waters.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39612179#39612179
Did anyone notice what could be Pam Hartley’s first **signs** of distancing herself from Tiffany? David’s mother said, in a solo clip, “You hear this, you hear that, you don’t know what’s true, you don’t know, you know, what to believe. But I’m not giving up hope that we are gonna find and that we are gonna bring him home, so that everything we do get, it’s, I hope -it’s always hope.”
At risk of sounding like P Hyatt (who me??? lol), seems she is now expressing doubt; not knowing “what” to believe (non-committal, instead of saying “who” to believe -which would be more committal to saying that she doubts Tiff…she is doubting something tho).
But then at about 5:40 in the clip, when asked point blank, sitting next to Tiff, she said, “Totally, totally…she’s just as important as my real daughter, I support her 100%–she reached for Tiff, who did not move her hands towards the mother 1 inch!
Pause at 6:01 and notice that Tiff did not even hold her hand back. Listen to that segment first looking at the, imo, genuine mother, and then play it again looking at TYH. Notice the stone cold demeanor when her mom in law is being so emotional and kind towards her…looking straight ahead…not one nod towards her, “mom!” Then doesn’t even motion back to her with the hands. (6:01 in clip). I did note that at 5:30 in clip she nodded towards the mom in law, seemingly in agreement that she is annoyed with the process and wants to move on… so she looks here way then, but NOTHING when her ‘mom’ is pouring out her heart????
Anyone else think that this is yet another bizarro world display of behavior?
PS. My heart breaks for David’s poor mother –she needs to get her baby back. And to Nikki and the dad -My heart breaks for them, really does. And I hope they wise up soon too and start to ADVOCATE for justice for their son/brother!
No.
No distance between her and Tiffany, but I did see it on Tiffany’s side.
What the Hell is this family in for?
B
10.Ted says:
October 11, 2010 at 3:17 pm
@ode..
If David had Life Insurance that is tied to his workplace, then it wouldn’t could not be liable to what happened off the workplace, as it would cover workplace accidents, or something while he was on the job. If he purchase life insurance on his own, it could also be a problem. It depends what the coverage states of activities that it won’t cover and the coverage. Calfrac would have Mexican Insurance for David, but it would be mainly for workplace.
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Ted,I would not consider insurance that covers one at work as life insurance. I could be wrong. It also would not be unreasonable to have a rider “for a price” added to cover your time when you are LIVING out of our country to your actual life insurance. Maybe he bought a short term life policy for the time he was to be living in Mexico. That policy could exclude anything happeninig out of Mexico. Great idea for a novel. Heck didn’t one of our pro football player just have his hair insured for “like, I don’t know, a million dollars?
(Excuse my TH type stutter why I try to think how to answer a question).
Side note…Watching JV…she has used “OUR STORY” again. I want to scream. She has stumbled all over the Poly question..Sherriff does not think I need one…I think JV is using her…I can not believe she believes her.
If the viewer base increases, the ad spend goes up, her ratings go up, you get the pic.
B
@@ nana2 says:
October 11, 2010 at 9:45 am
“I’m also wondering if when TH made it back to shore to that ‘witness’ that called 911 if anyone suggested that she be checked by medical personnel…”
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I have same question. I mean, 911 did get the opinion of the GS man that she was “in shock” -and shock should be immediately treated by professionals, if possible -and it was possible. Did she go to hospital? Or did she decline? hmmmm.
Regarding above I meant TH saying our story etc..not JV.
@ lily says:
October 11, 2010 at 10:08 am re:”THE GUN” lol… sounds like there were many guns with 3 boats and 3 pirates on each boat…What was so special about, “THE gun?” Was hit David’s??? He owned fire arms, and recently joined the NRA!
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edited you Madilu, not going there today, you and about 5 other posters.
M
To correct my above quote about Tiff’s 30K jetski. That would be combined total (her and David’s jetski cost), since both jetskis are about $15,000.
Thanks SH for the latest Seamus post
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/10/does-tiffany-hartley-know-shooter.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
I tend to think her wavering on the ‘two guys’ is in response to the murmurs of ‘so mexico is just going to blame it on two known bad guys’ theme. She is extremely responsive to any critisism in the media. Johnny on the spot to qualify any descrepencies that are noted, but of coarse she is constantly placing foot in mouth.
Has anyone else noted on the fb page, that several different people remarked to her how happy she & David looked, or good for them they are going oot, they deserve it. I am wondering if things were as loving and spectacular as it has been portrayed?
I think alot of us here are suspect of her story, I am just undecided on what the truth may be. Either ‘we’ were in it together, or ‘we’ had a problem and he is deceased.
Ted, you were talking about insurance. Wouldn’t they have a regular health care plan and have a life ins. policy thru that? It seems that this company is international, wouldnt he have coverage from the outset and it continue on there? I have no knowledge of this stuff internaltionally, so I am just clarifying. I would think if you had a policy and went overseas and died, it should still cover you, no? I dont mean just a life policy, but one where you have x times your salary etc. Just curious in the event I decide to travel, lol.
Any bets on how long we will see her daily?
@Gracie and Elizabeth… I would not doubt there being some drug deal involvement… stay at home wife, 30 yo husband with a GED only education, (granted a hard worker, seemingly) -several expensive vacations a year (travels abroad, cruises, etc.), weekend trips, fancy yellow motorcycle, jet skis + trailer, big expensive truck, firearms, house and house full of new furniture… really SEEMS like a high end lifestyle. The only thing they clearly do not spend money on is salons and nice clothing (nothing wrong with that tho!) Granted they don’t have kids or student loans, but I have no kids, and would never be able to afford any of that, even when I made close to 100k/yr for 1 person…I have no doubt that money is behind whatever happened.
@@ Mermaid14 says:
October 11, 2010 at 11:06 am
I don’t think Hartley’s life insurance would cover him in Mexico unless it was work related. Any auto insurer will tell you your auto coverage expires the minute you hit that border. You have to buy another policy to get coverage in a foreign country.
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BUT, what if, WHAT IF there is an added insurance policy for Calfrac employees that states that if you get killed in Mexico, where he physically worked, then the pay off goes UP, not down? Perhaps if you work in a foreign country that is in a danger zone -then there is additional “incentive” in the form of insurance, that states that if you are killed in that country, then you get more??? Could this be why she insisted and stated over and over from teh second she hit US that it was, “on the Mexico side…” ???
Does anyone have professional knowledge of this possibility??? Juz blinkin’ here…
Madilu,
If you have been to the fb, which I know you have, there is discussion w/ a female about going to work. I dont know what that work is, but she was doing something along the line of employment.
Just a crazy thought, yes, a little out there, but possible -just trying to figure out why she is in the media so much… I mean, even Geraldo? Really??? Why continuing with so many too? She knows that Mexico is, “working on it…” Has anyone considered that she is using media to be able to communicate with DH (darling husband, in this instance)? Are there any signes she uses consistently? Like, I have seen her playing with her wedding ring a few times…is she sending signals, and this is the reason for all the media blitz? Or is she just getting paid for them? Just another thought for blinkers near and far…
@ Madilu says:
October 11, 2010 at 7:43 pm
I watched that interview live & I am still waiting for real tears from everyone involved.. I know I’ll get beat up for that statement but I just haven’t seen any real tears from anyone over the alleged death of DH..
As for insurance – his health insurance is totally separate from his life insurance. Normally, health insurers are one company and life insurers are another company. Not always – but the policies are always different. On the same note, life insurance could be from his corporation and also from his personal life. The choices are endless as to insurance policies – they could be private policies and corporate, as well.
If his corporation paid his salary while he was in Mexico, seems like a corporate life policy would cover him in that country.
On another note, she needs to back off the interviews – duh.
@ Eloise
The Hartleys’ health insurance should have coverage for catastrophic care, and the cost for County Search and Rescue work, like helicopter evacuation. They should cover the ambulance sent by the 911 operator
If their insurance company has a subsidiary in Mexico, it could be easier to file the claim in the US, with parent company,because the coverage and the money will come from the same source. If insurance was through a Mexican company or through an US or Canadian subsidiary in Mexico, she is probably better off filing a claim in the US and in Mexico.
There is trip/travel insurance as you mentioned about going overseas, and pleny of addendums to add to his life insurance for protection. It depends on the insurance guidelines. They may not cover certain activities that are high risks.
If Tiffany Hartley Young files a claim without a death certificate, they will turn her down. If she gets a judgement that David Hartley is legally dead, they still may not cover it. If the insurance policy does cover activities like jet skiing, and covers Mexico, they may try to lower their liability payouts because how they entered Mexico, they entered an area with a couple stern warnings. (Ironically the State Department noted many times that Reynosa was too dangerous for Americans because of the border violence)
I think it is more about coverage, activities and how much was the payout. I wouldn’t be surprise that an Insurance Investigator is already down there to see what is going on. Ditto with Calfrac, it all about limiting their liability.
39.Eloise says:
October 11, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Madilu,
If you have been to the fb, which I know you have, there is discussion w/ a female about going to work. I dont know what that work is, but she was doing something along the line of employment.
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I’m not exactly clear who you’re speaking about, but if its TYH then I can say she has done some dance work/performance/teaching. Still trying to get that info.
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29.connie says:
October 11, 2010 at 7:41 pm
I think a reality star has been born. Tiffany is on JVM right now not only is she a chatty cathy, border expert and thinks the White House needs to intervene, but states the many incidents that her and her husband knew about PRIOR to their trip into the Mexican waters.
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I know I’m fringing on political/socio issues here, so take this knowing IMHO!!!
With my experience here in TX and traveling while working in CO, I am not all surprised by this border-issue/call on the white house for action stance many are taking. Why am I not surprised?? CO residents are quite conservative and pretty right winged even when it comes to church/politics/gay rights/abortion; then throw in a TX valley small town that is always in the throws of border violence, you see the result. They are preaching many of these issues on any given sunday. I do not mean any disrespect, please understand, just making an observation.
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Can anyone to take a gander on David’s salary? Just wondering how they managed all the toys, etc…
s.H. says:
October 11, 2010 at 9:54 am
This is a good ABC interview, in my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_x1-wcF5Yc&feature=fvwk
Tiffany must have lived in a Cave for three years. This poor girl, has no earthly idea, how investigative reporters, will be all over “her story”.
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…Nor how blinkers will…
**”He loves History” -present tense.
**”Once they finished taking pictures…” later she said they saw boats with friendly waves as soon as they arrived…before they took the pictures?
**She said, “3 small boats” -sigi G and GS said “commercial fishing boats…” How big are they?
**THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I have heard her say (at 1:40 in the clip) “When I looked back, I just saw him flying over and I just saw blood” -BLOOD??? I thought you just saw him flying over and when you turned him over you did not know what to expect??? Never did she mention before that she saw BLOOD!!!!! Not once.
**”The boat had come next to us, and kind of pointed the gun at me a couple times.” Did I hear that right? The BOAT pointed THE gun at her?
**(2:20) she chews her jaw again (which Dr. Lillian said is not gum in mouth, yet a sign of deception) when she said she hadda put him back in the water. (back? back from where? I thought she could never begin to get him “up” in the first place… I mean, since she stated over and over how much bigger he “is.” (present tense)
**Why is the GS man in fear for his life, but TYH is still staying at home in McAllen, easily to be found, and terminated? And also out on the lake, etc? GS man also seemed to change HIS story “[the jet ski] had a boat, kinda trailing behind it; looked like it was chasing behind.” So now “CHASING” is turning in into “TRAILING BEHIND?” He heard no shots….
“oy” -and the list goes on…
As for the JVM interview tonight, I am now convinced JVM is onto her, she is playing her and getting her to talk and wants her to come back again and again. She asks her about the polygraph and then asks this: “Tiffany, aren’t you scared?” You’re out there in the media every day and those guys are still out here.”
As for the cops video, all it shows is a white truck that has a trailer with 2 jetskis. It does not show who is in the truck. It also doesn’t show what time they were stopped. Then the grieving widow claims she doesn’t even know what town they were stopped in. How convenient. Hey,how many of you were ever stopped by cops and then didn’t remember the town??!! That’s one of the first things you make sure to find out so it doesn’t happen again.
Blink& All,
David’s family reminds me of the family of George Smith. Their son was newly married, and the couple went on a honeymoon cruise and he disappeared. The family welcomed Jennifer home with open arms, they believed her stories- they believed she couldn’t remember enough to help- Then Jennifer disappeared from their lives after they began asking more questions-
Here is the link to the 48 Hours Story:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/06/48hours/main1476588_page2.shtml
“Not only is George gone from their lives. So is Jennifer.”
“We welcomed Jennifer back in our home after George disappeared. She was actually the closest thing we had to George. She actually slept in George’s bedroom,” explains Bree.
“But that closeness turned to mistrust as the Smiths came to believe that Jennifer knew more than she was telling them.”
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Here is a link to Scared Monkeys coverage of what Jennifer decided to do 3 years after her husband vanished-
http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/jennifer-hagel-smith/
Jennifer later claimed in court that George mixed drinking and prescription drugs that night- She also accepted a million dollar settlement- George’s family only wanted justice for their son-
I hope for the Hartley’s sake that Tiffany is nothing like Jennifer, and that she IS just like a daughter to them, and will remain that way for her entire life- but I am scared for them because, as we have all heard, time and time again, Tiffany wants David found so she can “move on”
I don’t think the Hartley’s understand what “move on” may mean to a young, pretty widow- and I would hate for them to be hurt by her going on with a life that doesn’t include the family of her missing husband- whom she claims was shot… To live happily ever after without them and without David. Will they want to question her motives and her account/s then? I hope not.
Please Mr. & Mrs. Hartley- ask LE to investigate thoroughly, now. When you have a chance to find out everything. Please
Tonight on JVM TH spoke briefly about wanting her husband home – that’s what she and the family want. She also stated that she does not think it’s a good idea to travel to Mexico at this time to identify the “2″ men who are deemed suspects. She said that she will stay in the U.S. to identify the suspects by photo. This contradicted her statement to JVM earlier in her interview on the same show that she can’t identify the suspects because she was too focused on the gun pointed at her. Then towards the end of the interview, she went on and on about “securing the borders.” I kept waiting to hear her talk about her husband again, but she only kept talking about the problems on the border and how the borders need to be secured. That seemed to be foremost on her mind. Her husband was secondary and received so much less air time on the show than securing the borders.
JVM claims she believes her story and has always believed her.
@@ Mermaid14 says:
October 11, 2010 at 1:39 pm
“…What is Wrong With This Picture?? It is from the Christian Science Monitor…Yes, we all want to hop on our deceased loved one’s bike after we have it brought to the service for a sweet family photo. Nothing says I love you and miss you like that would.”
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You make me laugh! …never, EVER have I seen such a display…And I have to edit the rest of the statement I was thinking about hogs, since I figured Blink would edit it out…