David Hartley Gunned Down On Jet Ski In Mexico : Tiffany Young-Hartley Facing Scrutiny
According to his wife, Tiffany Young-Hartley, who called 911, David Hartley, 30, was gunned down by Mexican pirates while the couple ventured across the Falcon Resovior lakes US border to take pictures of the “Mexican Atlantis” or Old Guerreo.
Hartley says her husband was shot in the head and as a result “flew” off his jet ski while the couple was returning from the landmark on the Mexican side of the lake, after taking pictures. She goes on to say she became aware of 3 different boats chasing down the couple only after she saw bullets hitting the water next to her. As she turned around to see where they were coming from, she claims she witnessed her husbands murder.
David was driving a new Sea Doo RXT ski that can climb from 0–30MPH in 1.7 seconds and is capable of top-end speeds of over 60 MPH. Blinkoncrime.com has not been able to confirm which model Ms. Hartley was driving. The couple had been on at least one earlier jet ski jaunt while still in Mexico, but was cut short due to a mishap with David’s craft on June 20th.
According to his wife, David was face-down in the water, wearing a life vest, after he was shot.
Despite the horror of what she had just witnessed and astonishingly avoiding injury to her or her watercraft, she circled back around, jumped off her jet ski, and turned her 250 lb. husband upright to observe the gunshot wound to his forehead. You read that correctly, according to Tiffany Hartley, while being chased from behind, David was shot from the front. Hartley maintains this is when she attempted to load him onto her jet ski, and also when two of the three boats were now positioned in front of her.
One of the alleged pirate boats from the front approached her within 10 ft. While she stared down the barrell of his gun, she was holding onto her husband with one hand, her ski with the other asking not to be shot. Apparently through some sort of Mexican telepathy or nautical sign language, the men who just ambushed the couple and murdered her husband in cold blood, made a decision to let her go and retreated IN FRONT OF HER.
Hartley claims she cannot identify any of the men, that they never said a word to her nor could she hear anything they may have said to each other, but believes the motive for the attack to be robbery or to kidnap her. It is not clear how Tiffany arrived at this conclusion as they never made an attempt to stop them or ask them for their money, she was off her $13,000 Sea doo they could have easily taken, and they let her go.
It was at this time that Hartley finally did hear something. She says she heard the voice of God tell her to leave David, save herself and get to safety. However, his instruction must have been non-specific because she proceeded to mount her ski in deep water, start it back up, and drive directly toward and then past the very band of gun weilding murderous cartel who minutes ago gunned down her highschool sweetheart and spouse of 8 years. (Editors note: I cannot imagine the nerve it takes to again have your back to the same crew who, unprovoked, sprayed the lake with bullets behind you while you were fleeing for your life).
While Tiffany admits the couple was aware of recent pirate activity in the area they learned about while David researched the location, she claims they had not heard of anymore incidents on Falcon Lake, which borders both Texas and Mexico, “in a while.”
The Hartley’s, who had recently been on a few tropical vacations, were in the process of relocating to Colorado next week from Reynosa, Mexico and McAllen Texas, where they had lived for only a few months, following David’s transfer request to Calfrac well services.
According to recent Facebook postings, although the couple could not agree on furniture tastes, they recently purchased a house full of it just after a luxury cruise and visit to a seminar for those experiencing financial difficulty.
I would love to be able to do no analysis and regergetate this story as reported by main stream media whereby not one reporter asks the obvious question:
After several known incidents of piracy in that location over the last months, why would the “pirates” suddenly go on a murderous rampage in lieu of attempting to rob a couple on jet skis that could outrun them on sight?
Not gonna happen. I have heard umpteen versions of Ms. Hartley’s version of events leading to the random execution of her husband.
None pass the smell test. However, just today, Zapata County Sheriff “Sigi” Gonzalez, Jr says his investigation, now aided by a witness who is a long standing member of the Zapata community, exonerates Mrs. Hartley of any wrongdoing.
Gonzalez completely rules out foul play on the part of Mrs. Hartley.
“A local witness saw Tiffany Hartley escaping on her jet-ski to the Texas side of the lake,” he said. “She came in at high speed and was being pursued by armed men in a Mexican fishing boat that that the witness clearly observed.”
Gonzalez said the witness was a long-standing member of the Zapata community who was well known to him and regarded as highly credible.
“The testimony of this witness dispels any idea Mrs. Hartley was involved in any wrongdoing regarding the murder of her husband,” he said firmly. “She called in a 911 phone call to our office at around 2:20 p.m. on the day of the incident, immediately after she got to shore, and her statements to my office confirm what the local witness observed.”
Unfortunately, the witness account does not match Tiffany Hartley’s own version of events. At no time has she ever said that she was again chased by the “pirates”, in fact, she claims she left them behind after driving “through” them.
Hartley references recent pirate activity, which is almost verbatim what she says happened to her and David, with the exception of the actual piracy:
On April 30, five people in two different boats were fishing on Falcon Lake and went to the Old Guerrero area, where they were taking photos of the old church. While they were there, a boat with four heavily tattooed men approached the two boats quickly. The men identified themselves as “Federales,” but they were not wearing uniforms. The men boarded the boats, demanded cash and asked “where are the drugs?” The fishermen told the men that they had no drugs and were just fishing and taking photos. They ended up giving the men $200 cash and left the area. The pirates followed the two boats, but the U.S. boats were able to outrun them and the men stopped following once the two boats entered U.S. waters.
In every recorded incident since April, the heavily tattoed pirates posing as “Federales” without uniforms, came upon anchored fishing boats, boarded them, robbed the fisherman at gunpoint of any personal cash, searched for drugs left without any violence. In the Hartley family interview on the Today show, Tiffany states that after David was hit, she circled around, jumped off her jetski, swam over to her husband and because he was “face down in the water” she had to turn him over where she discovered he was shot in the head.
It would seem I am not alone in my quagmire. Mexican Investigators, who hold jurisdiction have already begun to question Ms. Hartley’s story.
Marco Antonio Guerrero Carrizales, the district attorney for the Miguel Aleman Province adjoining Falcon Lake on the Mexican side, has questioned whether Tiffany Hartley was involved in foul play.
Early this morning, Sheriff Sigi Gonzalez announced the Mexican Authorities will be searching the area where David Hartley was murdered, and have committed to “not leaving” until they find him. Tiffany Hartley, accompanied by her parents, but without David’s, filed a missing person report at the Mexican Consulate last night as a matter of procedure to “get the ball rolling”.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates
Madeline Tanner, contributing editor blinkoncrime.com
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@ lily says:
October 12, 2010 at 6:21 pm
It sure sounds to be like they are trying to get Tiffany to go to Mexico – arrest/questioning?
*********************
Don’t mean to sound ignorant, but I trust that the Mexicans would at least interrogate her appropriately, and examine the details and physical evidence, corrupt or not, of the case, which, apparently the US “side” is not interested in doing….??? I know that my statement sounds anti-American -and I am not, this is to be sure. It’s just that I don’t think that LE has thoroughly done a tracer method to determine the real deal…. (okay, no tomatoes, please.)
For starters. Was she wearing her wedding band upon arrival on the US side? GS? Sheriff Sigi? Was she? If she was, that is a HUGE sign of deceit.
PackLeader5 says: Tiffany and David are running from the Carte (most likely the Zetas)
_________________________________
Agree with this too, I just posted some links that will show up momentarily…
@ DesertGirl says:
October 12, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Thanks for your insight regarding jet ski-age… interesting. Made me also think of her saying she was in the water WITH him, turning him over, then trying to get him “back on” her ski…and over course her saying OVER AND OVER how “I didn’t hesitate a second, he’s my husband, I went back.” All of those statements were OVERKILL, seemingly trying to paint herself as a hero of some sort? idk. moo.
Lori D says:
Could the Hartleys have been under the protection of the cartel and that’s why they weren’t afraid living in Reynosa?
_______________________________________________________
I agree with you Lori D…started searching and found this:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113388071
In August 2009, Mexican authorities reported that the Zetas used false import documents to smuggle at least $46 million worth of oil in tankers for sale to U.S. refineries.
Or could David have been involved with trafficing for the Zetas? See “narcotic operations within Reynosa” below.
http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/states/newsrel/2009/dallas072309.html
Maybe Tiffany’s stories are so bizarre because she is lying out of fear of the Zetas, retaliating against her? (Thus, that is why she doesn’t want to identify them, and now all of a sudden story is 4 vs 2 in one boat.) Same with Sheriff Gonzalez (fear of retaliation)
Also…
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/ Very graphic photos here, gonna search it when I find some time. (Cartel’s be-head to leave a message.) Maybe the beheaded investigater is a message from the Zetas to Tiffany about making sure she keeps her mouth shut?
To: T.H. (reply)
…Did I read DH & TH, attended a Financial Advisor conference?
————————————————————-
Yes, Blink actually has this posted in the above blog article.
…….According to recent Facebook postings, although the couple could not agree on furniture tastes, they recently purchased a house full of it just after a luxury cruise and visit to a seminar for those experiencing financial difficulty……..
Blink, today, I re-read your article, above. When I first read your blog, I was not following the case, like I am now. I was shocked about the part in your blog where you mention the following:
————————————————————–
“Tiff’s references recent pirate activity, which is almost verbatim what she says happened to her and David, with the exception of the actual piracy:
On April 30, five people in two different boats were fishing on Falcon Lake and went to the Old Guerrero area, where they were taking photos of the old church. While they were there, a boat with four heavily tattooed men approached the two boats quickly. The men identified themselves as “Federales,” but they were not wearing uniforms. The men boarded the boats, demanded cash and asked “where are the drugs?” The fishermen told the men that they had no drugs and were just fishing and taking photos. They ended up giving the men $200 cash and left the area. The pirates followed the two boats, but the U.S. boats were able to outrun them and the men stopped following once the two boats entered U.S. waters”.
——————————————————————-
……….That just blows my mind. It’s like she is reading from script.
Lori D, per my links above…if he is still alive & they are/will be running from the Cartel/Zetas…thinking that the parents know, and and this would explain why TH keeps saying “my story” why she keeps changing so many storylines, or odd thing she says (yesterday she was already talking about leaving.) The one link above that shows “wanted list” I want to research deeper, just posted it quickly.
Eloise, another point that stood out to me from that audio interview is that David spent time in Russia also, with out Tiffany she was going to visit then he was offered a position in Mexico- Exactly how much time did David work? How much time was she left alone?- She went on to say that at one point he was doing whatever job the company gave him working three different jobs at once so that they could have the finer things in life-
3 jobs- and now being laid off- or at least cut back- Was his company paying moving expenses back to Colo?- if so then I believe that David possibly had a safty net of some sort, although for much less money without the perks such as all expenses paid- but if the company was not paying for all the relocation expenses- then I believe they were just hoping that something would be available to David somewhere in there Colo branch-
Considering that Tiffany said they were even sure where in Colo they would move and they were just going to live in a hotel for awhile- I think that they were just hoping that things would work out… Did they merely rent the furniture- or was it purchased as to own?
David, according to Tiffany seemed willing to do anything to make sure that his wife didnt have to work and could enjoy the finer things in life.. she told a story about if they were ever to have children which I kind of found strange- her memory so soon after is not sadly remembering their talks of having children that will never be, but jokingly saying that if their child was a girl David would give her the world and she wouldn’t have to worry- if their child was a boy well he better get up and work to get what he wanted because David believed a man should work hard for his needs…
Good thoughts in one respect, but I found it all to be very strange.
IRT the ring she said it wasn’t the ring she gave him to marry her- but a different ring that he wore all the time.
Another post from this afternoon went from “in moderation” to missing. Think Blink’s techies need to see where things are going. Or maybe I’m just blind.
In that post, I had several questions regarding their living situation and their job(s). Didn’t keep a copy, but here are some of the questions I posted:
*What were they doing jet-skiing on a Thursday? Another vacation day? Or did he have an odd work schedule?
*Or had David already quit working in anticipation of their move?
*Had they contracted with a moving company, to move all that furniture they didn’t agree on?
Can’t recall some of my old questions, but here is a new one:
*Where (location) was David last working? Had moved to Texas, but where did he go to work?
I posted a couple of days ago about the 2 homes they had sold in Colorado in successive years before moving to Texas/Mexico. Thinking about it, those were some pretty nice homes for a couple in their mid-twenties–especially a GED husband with an ice-cream-cake decorating wife. Or had she moved on to another career? I just don’t know many couples that age selling homes in the mid-200s. Must be really financially savvy, especially to keep up with their travel adventures.
lizzy- are you checking older posts? I am seeing the ones you referenced were posted my friend-
B
Yea, pretty interesting to think about the possibility of the Hartley’s having had a prior relationship w/ anyone known as the Cartel. That is beyond risky, terrifying and stupid to me. I could fathom a plan to ‘dissapear oneself’ as the only way out, but what did that do for TYH in the aftermath? Seems a little bit of a risk for her though. Maybe that is why she has security detail. I would think if I was back on land in the US, I would hope to feel safe. How could ordinary pirates get her here? Must be fancy pirates. And really, why call them pirates, they didnt rob and pillage, they allegedly murdered. She seems to bright to have just been duped by her hubby.
Madilu says:
October 12, 2010 at 10:45 pm
@ lily says:
October 12, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Ummm Madilu – I’m not sure I get the end of your comment about wedding ring, GS(?), Sheriff Sigi, etc. but I have made several comments in the last few days that have been very clear. So if you’re implying that I think the Mexican gov’t has anything in mind other than proper arrest of whomever is responsible that is just wrong. I think they would probably like to have Tiffany on their territory so that they have proper jurisdiction in order to follow their procedures for questioning witnesses in a murder case that happened in the country of Mexico.
I hope they do – as far as it being “anti-American” to question the motives and manipulations of gov’t or politicians – or for that matter our citizens who accuse our gov’t of ulterior motives – go for it. You won’t find me having an issue or problem with that. I live in Texas – I understand how people are leveraging this case for their own agendas. I wonder have you read the multiple comments I’ve made in the last week and 1/2 on this case?
@ Rhoni says:
October 12, 2010 at 6:04 pm
@ Nana2
Could this be retaliation for putting the blame on DH’s alleged death on the wrong person(s) or country ?
——————————————————-\
MmmmmHmmmmm…
I thought the same exact thing……
If this is true, about the Falcon lake gang, sending the ‘head’ of the lead investigator to the military, welllll, wouldn’t some of us think that this gang would have no problem sending David’s body, dead, to the military, too? It’s almost like a retaliation, saying “look, we don’t have the body, we never did, now leave us alone and see we have no problem sending dead bodies to the military, just to prove it, we don’t back down to anyone” kind of thing…..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This made me think of the movie The Godfather with the horse head on the bed..
off topic again… One miner up in less than 30 minutes on to the next one . TYG ♥ & tears
1.Madilu says:
October 12, 2010 at 10:45 pm
@ lily says:
October 12, 2010 at 6:21 pm
It sure sounds to be like they are trying to get Tiffany to go to Mexico – arrest/questioning?
*********************
Don’t mean to sound ignorant, but I trust that the Mexicans would at least interrogate her appropriately, and examine the details and physical evidence, corrupt or not, of the case, which, apparently the US “side” is not interested in doing….???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Madilu, I agree with you almost all of the time, but I differ on this issue. IMO, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should Tiffany Hartley cross the border into Mexico for interrogation by the Mexican LE. Trust is not a word I would use when talking about Mexican LE in that particular area of Mexico. It common knowledge that many LE agencies have been infiltrated by Cartel members, and there is widespead corruption. A more secure way of having her interviewed by Mexican investigators, would be to invite these investigators to McAllen or San Antonio and have the FBI sit in on the interview. If the investigators are associated with President Calderon, they may be willing to do so.
Mom3.0 says:
October 12, 2010 at 5:40 pm
‘Lily thank you for those postings the audio- man- what is up with her demeanor?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Mom3.0 and Lily: Lily, thanks for posting this very interesting audio. As I listened to Tiffany I had to keep picking my jaw up off the floor. I realize that everyone grieves differently, and maybe this is simply all of her defense mechanisms kicking in. That is possible, but–WOW–she just seemed so calm, so carefree that I could imagine her at a sidewalk cafe with a margarita in her hand. She had a lilt, hell, even a buoyancy in her voice as she discussed everthing from living in Reynosa, to David’s interests, to his CREMATION and “leaving some of him at the beach.”
I kept listening, but I did not hear a hint of sorrow/grief/despair/anguish/horror/fear/guilt/confusion/ANGER—-all the normal emotions that someone who has recently witnessed her husband’s violent death would normally feel. This girl could have been discussing a day at the mall or the beach. I have never seen anything like this.
WTH???? What is going on with this girl? I am NOT saying she hurt David, or was even involved. I am saying her affect and demeanor are way beyond anything I have ever observed in a person who has suffered such a sudden, devastating loss. It could mean nothing; it could mean everything. It could just be Tiffany’s manner of grieving.
Any thoughts??
@ PackLeader5 says:
October 12, 2010 at 10:27 pm \”Their plan is to fake David’s death, let the publicity die down, and Tiffany will join him and they’ll change their names and move on with life. ”
*******************************
considering your theory, what on God’s earth would Tiff have to gain from drawing so much attention to herself in terms of going to every major news media outlet outlet there is, multiple times, including even cable and local news outlets, and even Geraldo??? IF the plan were to fake his death, then why would she add all this attention? I mean, she doesn’t even have proper grammar (not even in the slightest, in any way, and often ends sentences with prepositions even…), do you think she is smart enough to pull anything such off, even a long term plan? Or is it the ignorant that think they can pull off such> idk. Not seeing it. Tho something is definitely up with her story tho.
Blink, you are so right about JVM and PETA… for sure:) Do u know if they have a search team actively checking out the beach area around the lake up to the mexican border to rule out he did not float or was placed in the “brush”. We need a “dog the bounty hunter” or Leonard Padilla on this case i’m thinking.
From ABC News:
The head of a murdered investigator who had been working on the case of missing Texan David Hartley was stuffed in a suitcase and delivered to the Mexican military earlier today.
sorry a day late and a dollar short…
Eloise says:
October 12, 2010 at 10:36 pm
* She had a mens wedding ring on noted by the female interviewer
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
TH weights a hundred pounds, and she has a man’s wedding ring on?
Did she strip him of his jewerly? Keep her talking.
I found this interesting. It’s a copy and paste from this story.
“In the ensuing years, they traveled extensively. They became certified scuba divers.”
Read more: David Hartley remembered as an ideal husband, son, friend – The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16293727?source=rss#ixzz12F9KjWsI
Just to clarify, TYH did indicate the ring she was wearing in whatever fashion, was not THE wedding ring. Though she did go on to say that they never wear their jewelry skiing. ?? Does that make sense? Why mention that if it’s not the same ring anyhow? Not to mention, my husband just has one ring.
I am curious, is there ANY investigation going on, or are the Mexican’s just casually looking for a washed up American? Maybe it is the investigation that noone is speaking aloud about? Someone better make a move on it, time and other things are ticking.
Thanks Lily for the audio.
Like the rest of you, I can not understand her calm demeanor while speaking to the reporter (she was great at her job!). I have said all this already, but I will again. How can she even speak of securing the borders and stopping the violence, when they crossed over the border ILLEGALLY?? That makes no freakin sense! She is distracting the situation-again! Then she goes on to speak like she is a expert in the war against drugs: “We should just stop buying the drugs,” she repeats that over and over again. She is trying to put on a facade of an advocate, which may work if she actually showed any true emotion about witnessing her husband being shot in the head.
Seriously, this is strangest murder case I have ever witnessed.
I think someone should check out the place where they were supposedly going to move back to in Colorado. Does that story hold water? Had they already gotten a place? Did they buy or rent? What has happened to the “house full of furniture” that they supposedly bought?
I would start there and work my way backward and follow the money trail.
The scenario below is strictly imaginary and MOO. Scroll and roll if you like.
If I were politically inclined and wanted to boost support for my “lock down the border” platform upon which much of my election or reelection hinges, I might direct a choice underling or two to ’scout out’ an American who is incredibly desperate for money and will play the role I need her to play. I might give her a script of sorts to follow, which includes rhetoric about securing the border and the dangers Americans face as a result of Mexican violence. I might have relationships with mercenaries and the like in that country, and I might even go so far as to arrange the murder of Mexican LE personnel in a manner that plays upon the fear and limited knowledge Americans have of the cartels’ M.O.s. I might be in bed with local powers that be, including MSM, to keep the focus where I want it to be – on the “lack of cooperation” from Mexican authorities. I might just win in November when I can tout my commitment to stopping these sorts of horrific crimes.
Since when was it ever “anti-American” to question the motives of our government or elected officials?? They work for US and WE pay THEIR salaries, not the other way around! We have a DUTY as American citizens to be the watchdog of our own civil liberties and to protect our Democracy. The last 10 years of history in this country should have taught everyone a great lesson of what can happen when you blindly trust your leaders to “do the right thing.” What would happen on YOUR job if YOUR boss allowed you to do anything you wanted, and did not hold you accountable for your actions while on their payroll and company time? Most people would NOT do the right thing if they knew there would be no consequences for not doing so.
How dare these opportunist politicians try to drumbeat “Mexico is corrupt” into our collective psyches!!! Especially when we have scandal after scandal right here in the USA. What arrogance and hypocrisy! Our nation is practically bankrupt, we have record unemployment, our public schools are all going broke, our cities’ infrastructures are crumbling, and we are stuck in two multi-trillion dollar wars that we cannot seem to get out of.
Blaming Mexico and illegal immigration is not going to solve anything here. Trillions of dollars have been thrown at the border problem with no results and problem getting worse. It is your leaders that you elected and paid who were supposed to do their job and keep these things from happening. This issue has been growing for over 30 years. Living in Texas I have seen it and I knew it was coming.
And what does our state leader propose? Secede from the Union! That will fix everything.
The very virtue of our citizenship allows us to question any issue we choose. Illegal immigration is a serious problem, and I support efforts to deal with it.
That said, may I remind anyone who thinks again this is a border issue, that it was the Hartley’s, after researching the dangers associated with the Mexican side of lake, went there anyway.
B
I live on the border…I can see Juarez from my house. My husband works for Border Patrol and several members of his family live in Zapata there on Lake Falcon where this incident occurred and all of them also work for Border Patrol, Customs and one is a Sheriff.
Blink….this violence has gone on for many many years it wouldn’t have mattered whether the Hartley’s were on our side or on the Mexican side or even at that particular lake. We are not safe on either side of the border. Maybe most of you don’t realize just how close we actually are. Being on the American side is just as dangerous, El Paso has had multiple gunshots fired into our city from Mexico. The cartels have killed and gone after numerous people on our side. The truth is….our government just does not seem to care. No one can even begin to understand why the US caters to Mexico. To my knowledge, Obama has not acknowledged this Falcon Lake incident in any way, shape or form. What kind of American President could just sit back and ignore the fact that American citizens are being slaughtered? I’m quite certain that if this all involved a country other than Mexico…..things would be quite different coming out of the White House. Illegal Immigration is one issue but this is not an immigration issue so much as a threat to national security. The drug cartels OWN Mexico and the cartels are running the show in Mexico. That’s the truth and it’s not going to be too long before those cartels are so powerful that no one will be able to stop them.
There were some questions early raised early on on this board and other places about the legality of Americans crossing into the Mexican part of Lake Falcon. It did some checking. It is perfectly legal for an American to cross the border into Mexican waters without going through any type of immigration check-point as long as you stay on the water and never step foot on the Mexican shore line. The confusion about no being able to cross that border comes in when US officials say they can’t because in their “official capacities” they can’t. I suppose if they are fishing on their day off they can cross like anyone else.
There are also WARNINGS that you SHOULDN’T cross the border to the Mexican side of the lake. Keep in mind, that is different than saying that you are forbidden by law from crossing that line as a private citizen. The US just can’t protect you if you cross that line but you can cross it if you want to.
If you have fishing equipment on board your vessel you must have a fishing license for every person on board whether they are fishing or not. If you stay in US waters, you only need to have a Texas fishing license. If you plan on going into Mexican waters you must also buy a Mexican fishing license for each person on board. You can buy a Mexican license in Texas at any bait and tackle store or online just like you buy your Texas license.
In summary, Tiffany and David were did not illegally cross the border into Mexico. There crossing was perfectly legal.
Because the middle of that lake is essentially a legally open border, it has become a super-swap-meet for goodies going both ways. Guns are practically impossible to purchase legally in Mexico. Of course in Texas, you can buy them at Walmart. So, guns and ammo go south out of Texas and drugs go north out of old Mexico. Cash goes both ways.
@
momofjbsl says:
October 13, 2010 at 8:58 am
I found this interesting. It’s a copy and paste from this story.
“In the ensuing years, they traveled extensively. They became certified scuba divers.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes and there is a real great action shot of the 2 of them doing just that being shown on some TV news (?) stations..
Still guess they must have always taken a photographer with them everywhere they went since DH is the photographer according to TH..
Dang… I forgot to proof again! Please forgive extra words. I think faster than I type.
T.H. was chased by the Fishing boat, because she was disrupting there
livelihood.
I fished (not commercial)the waters need to be still. You can not even talk, because the Fish feel the vibrations. I can not imagine, how Fish are effected by the motor of a Jet Ski.
TH lies like a ten year old. IMO.
Every time I watch TH on TV I marvel at her public speaking ability & how quickly she adapted to the satellite ear feed she has to wear there are some reporters that have an issue with that ear feed.. Not to leave out that her script is always so well prepared it almost flows..
Blink,
I too support efforts to solve the border problem, but one thing usually lacking in any law enforcement and political discourse is A PLAN, and a PLAN B if PLAN A doesn’t work.
You have only to look at the Ramos and Campeon border patrol agent fiasco and read the details of what really happened with that incident. It was proof positive that they do not have a proactive plan to deal with the illegals and the drug runners.
That whole incident was turned into a political football. You have competing law enforcement agencies at the local, state and federal level,huge egos, multi million dollar drug deals going down, and politicians looking for a hot button issue in every election.
Also the horrendous death of DEA agent Enrique “Kiki” Camarena, for whom the Red Ribbon Week at public schools and the D.A.R.E. program was founded.
This is where you have the good guys who end up dead and imprisoned because no law enforcement agency or politician wants to be held accountable when something goes terribly wrong.
I have always felt that Camarena was sold out by one of his own.
We also have to ask ourselves, in which direction are the drugs flowing?? Where is the demand for them? Right here in the USA. They are traveling north, not south.
Until we deal with the end user aspect of the problem in a serious manner also, nothing is going to change.
I found this info about Falcon Lakes on
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/parkinfo/rules_and_regulations/
snip
(p) Water Recreation. It is an offense for any person to:
1. engage in water skiing, surf boarding while being towed, towing a person or a similar device, or operate a motorized ski device on lakes of less than 650 surface acres located in a state park;
No.
B
Would this reg apply to the area that TH & DH were skiing on ?
The poster is OZONETOURIST #24
(http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5680142#post5680142
A former Marine gives his analysis: achine Gun Rounds
In my opinion I would assume that if rounds were being discharged at an extreme high rate per minute , they would both be struck somewhere either on the body or the watercraft. It is not reasonable to think that only one round out of thousands fired hit their target.To put this into perspective; When on the battlefield, we tend to select auto on the rifle to spray our target. Very seldomly will we launch “BRASS” (Breath, Relax, Aim Shoot) as a sniper would. I am also a former Marine and have studied all aspects of marksmanship, unfortunately Tiffany has not. Law enforcement looks forward to every time she appears in an interview. This last audio interview is going to seal the case for them.
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I actually addressed this in a comment response early on. But she never says what type of weapon it was.
Did not happen they way she says, no way.
B
Per audio interview: TH was asked how Calfrac was supporting her…TH said that they came down & checked on her after they heard what David DID (6:55ish-7:00) on tape. Hmmm…
28.Cricket says:
October 13, 2010 at 11:14 am
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Thank you for that info Cricket. I now have to take back almost all of my complaints.
Lee, Good Morning
First let me say thanks to your husband for doing his job.
I understand that he, you, and your family know the dangers of Mexico and living near the border.Thank you for your insights.
Let me ask you a question, if I may? Knowing your husband is in danger daily, for doing nothing more than his job, and understanding that Mexico is not a safe place, that the cartel is overrunning everything, and as you made mention, the danger is spilling over to our side, would you, or your husband, knowing, living, understanding these dangers, would either of you go 5 miles INTO, Mexico, for any reason,let alone a reason, such as a leisurely trip to take pictures for 5 min of a submerged Church- ? And would you make this MUST DO trip upon a jet ski, that has been having mechanical troubles?
Lee, please, don’t talk to us as if we simply do not understand the dangers, and that Tiffany ‘s meandering story/s should be used to tout the failures of the US President and our governments stance on border issues, because Lee, I dont agree & I just don’t buy it.
IMO, any politician that would grasp on to this tragedy, and Tiffany and David’s KNOWINGLY going into DANGEROUS Mexico, and try to use it to underscore a national security issue, a border control issue, illegal drug issues, or an illegal immigration issue, would be signing their own commitment papers.
Lee, something is not right with this whole story. I don’t know what the really story is, but Tiffany is not telling it to us.
Lee I understand your fear, living so close to the border, I understand that something must be done to make sure that our citizen’s our safe, and that the horrors that are occurring in Mexico, do not begin to happen in our America-
What would you have our government do, Lee? Should we go to war with Mexico? You yourself have said their government is not in control, the cartel is…so who should we go to war with?
We all understand the need for more secure borders, noone more than you and your family, understandably, but intertwining this issue with Tiffany Hartley and what happened to her husband- IMO is not the right way to proceed in bringing more understanding and resources to this issue.
You wrote:
The truth is….our government just does not seem to care. No one can even begin to understand why the US caters to Mexico. To my knowledge, Obama has not acknowledged this Falcon Lake incident in any way, shape or form. What kind of American President could just sit back and ignore the fact that American citizens are being slaughtered?
–Lee, you are entitled to your opinion, and I understand you are coming from a place of fear and disgust at what has been going on, but please, step back for a moment- I personally think it is smart for President Obama NOT to comment on this incident at Falcon Lake.
I also think that your question of “What kind of American President could just sit back and ignore the fact that American citizens are being slaughtered?” Is unfair, no one, in my opinion only, is ignoring any slaughtering of American’s, and certainly not our President. IRT this incident, NO ONE knows for certain what happened. If David is dead, no one knows how, or why or even truly where.
There needs to be a thorough investigation IMO Tiffany and her husband were well aware of the dangers, they, like you lived amongst it, they lived IN Mexico for nearly 3 years. They had first hand experience with the cartels- and yet, they sped into dangerous waters, 5 miles into Mexico- for nothing more than a picture… I am truly sorry for what happened to David, but it seems to me, that he and his wife were the ones that were ignoring the border issues and the slaughtering done by these cartels….
Peace
T.H. that was a very interesting thought IMO- the boat could have been pizzed off by Tiffany’s ruining their fishing with her loud, wake causing jet ski, to my knowledge the witness that saw the boat never made mention of seeing guns or any shooting, but did describe it as a commercial fishing boat- opposed to Tiffany’s account that they were speed boats…
My comment dissapeared
It didn’t even say it was in moderation. It said it was a double post and poof it was gone 
I was trying to say that I really don’t believe they were in with the Cartel and something went wrong to lead to his death. They would have never ever let her go if that was the case. She would be dead along with her husband. And if by some slim chance she did get away I believe she would have turned up dead by now.
Nice job, Switzerland…ooops, I meant to say Mom3.0!
perfectly stated, and I agree wholeheartedly.
One point I should have added to my post at 11:14…
Crossing back over the US/Mexican border on Falcon Lake into the state of Texas is also legal. As long as you are on the water, no checkpoints, passports, i.d. etc. needed coming or going.
Something else…
The Life Jacket
Just My Theory—I don’t think David is in the water but even if he was in the water, his life jacket might not have been “operational” as a life preservation device. This could explain why neither David or the life jacket has been found floating about in the beautiful lake. A retrofitted and waterproofed life jacket could contain a considerable quantity of “stuff”. Not that it did… but it could. -just sayin
Lee:
I totally understand where you are coming from, and I agree with you that most of us do not realize the dangers as we do not live on the boarder. However, this case is not about boader control, this should be a missing persons/murder investigation. Tiffany Hartley has advocated boarder control because it is a sheild to hide behind, so she does not have to tell the actual events that happened on that lake. I do not know what happened out there, I believe only Tiffany truely knows (maybe one other person). She has not been truthful in her “story” as she calls it. I dont know why, time will tell. I do however agree and believe there is a problem with boarder control, and I believe it needs to be addressed, however I do not feel it should be addressed in the form of a cover up for another crime. I believe it deserves to be invesitgated and taken care of for the problem that it is. I also believe that this murder/missing persons case should be investigated independently as well. I believe that is owed to David Hartley, as I would feel it is owed to any murdered/missing person.
Rhoni says:
October 12, 2010 at 11:05 pm
Blink, today, I re-read your article, above. When I first read your blog, I was not following the case, like I am now. I was shocked about the part in your blog where you mention the following:
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“Tiff’s references recent pirate activity, which is almost verbatim what she says happened to her and David, with the exception of the actual piracy:
On April 30, five people in two different boats were fishing on Falcon Lake and went to the Old Guerrero area, where they were taking photos of the old church. While they were there, a boat with four heavily tattooed men approached the two boats quickly. The men identified themselves as “Federales,” but they were not wearing uniforms. The men boarded the boats, demanded cash and asked “where are the drugs?” The fishermen told the men that they had no drugs and were just fishing and taking photos. They ended up giving the men $200 cash and left the area. The pirates followed the two boats, but the U.S. boats were able to outrun them and the men stopped following once the two boats entered U.S. waters”.
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Very interesting, now could her Great Escape, be from a James Bond movie?
LE should check her rental movie’s, or HBO. I am sure, now, (IMO)
she hatched her great escape, from a movie. She just didn’t research the bullet theories. Tiff (not to smart) believed the movie script’s.
36.crimesolver says:
October 13, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Per audio interview: TH was asked how Calfrac was supporting her…TH said that they came down & checked on her after they heard what David DID (6:55ish-7:00) on tape. Hmmm…
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“They came down and checked on her after they heard what David DID”:
What DID he do? Any ideas???? Is she implying he set this up? He instigated the situation? Saved her life? Committed suicide?
http://www.mysinchew.com/node/46376
snipped from above link:
NUEVO LAREDO, Wednesday 13 October 2010 (AFP) – A Mexican police commander investigating the disappearance of an American tourist on a lake on the US-Mexico border was found dead Tuesday, justice officials said.
http://m.themonitor.com/articles/mexican-43531-delivered-severed.html
snipped from above link:
The severed head of a Mexican investigator involved in the Falcon Reservoir case was delivered to the Mexican army today, according to Mexican authorities.
Ruben Dario Rios Lopez, spokesman for the Tamaulipas Attorney General’s Office, confirmed that Rolando Armando Flores Villegas, the state police commandant heading the Mexican investigation into the disappearance of David Michael Hartley, was killed today.
Ok, did I not read all day yesterday it was unrelated?
I am out most of the afternoon for kids sports stuff, will be back late, everyone keep vigilant.
B
Anyone know the law for owning a gun as an ex-pat international in mexico?
After listening to the audio, I did also hear the “what David DID” comment. It stuck out like a sore thumb.
y’know, she was not sad at all in the interview. Not once, not ever. She talked happily about their perfect life together and wanting to have a family…blah…blah…blah. Never once did she cry, break down, or act like she missed what could have been. Maybe she does know he is dead, but I am sorry, for her not to show any sort of sadness on what could have been with her young husband is not normal.
About the only thing right about the whole interview was that she was not smacking on that gum.
Is she a dumb blonde, or is she playing a dumb blonde? That cartel just needs to put their guns down and ya’ll just need to stop buying drugs, then it would all be better. Oh, and she hasn’t heard from anyone in Washington?
Keep talking…
No offense to dumb blondes or not so dumb blondes, as I am both, daily.
B
I have a thoughtful question for everyone who is wondering why our President or Secretary of State are not “doing” something about an American tourist who was killed in Mexico. What should happen every time a tourist is killed in the country they’re visiting? For example,
a German tourist was killed a few weeks ago in San Francisco when she got caught in crossfire between two groups of people. Should Angela Merkel demand immediate action of all resources, politicians, etc. in order to find and bring swift justice?
There are many cases of Americans crossing the border into Mexico and ending up killed. I have already given the example of the Sugar Land, Texas high school senior who was killed a couple of months ago – Elisabeth Mandala – who was beaten to death near Monterrey Mexico and it had all of the markings of a cartel hit. Where was the outrage then?
Of course, you already know I could google all day and find all kinds of examples to make my point. I live in South Texas and have lived in Texas for most of the last 30 years of my life. I know fully well that border violence is real and scary – but with a couple of exceptions has stayed mostly on the side of Mexico. We can’t ignore it – but neither should it be an overreaction or exploited for political gain.
I love it Blink. We KNOW you are not a dumb blonde. As for me, I am a brunette, compliments of my hairdresser, but I have been known to send out “blonde emails” at work when the time calls for it.
Guess us southern gals can do that without battin’ an eyelash.
Tiff honored David, in an early Memorial, for Memorial Funds.
Does that make any sense?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=713984458&v=wall#!/profile.php?id=713984458&v=wall
Tia Young If you would like to donate the David Michael Hartley Memorial Fund you can do that at http://www.tfcmcallen.com make sure to put that it is for David and Tiffany. Thank you so much for all you love and support.