David Hartley Gunned Down On Jet Ski In Mexico : Tiffany Young-Hartley Facing Scrutiny
According to his wife, Tiffany Young-Hartley, who called 911, David Hartley, 30, was gunned down by Mexican pirates while the couple ventured across the Falcon Resovior lakes US border to take pictures of the “Mexican Atlantis” or Old Guerreo.
Hartley says her husband was shot in the head and as a result “flew” off his jet ski while the couple was returning from the landmark on the Mexican side of the lake, after taking pictures. She goes on to say she became aware of 3 different boats chasing down the couple only after she saw bullets hitting the water next to her. As she turned around to see where they were coming from, she claims she witnessed her husbands murder.
David was driving a new Sea Doo RXT ski that can climb from 0–30MPH in 1.7 seconds and is capable of top-end speeds of over 60 MPH. Blinkoncrime.com has not been able to confirm which model Ms. Hartley was driving. The couple had been on at least one earlier jet ski jaunt while still in Mexico, but was cut short due to a mishap with David’s craft on June 20th.
According to his wife, David was face-down in the water, wearing a life vest, after he was shot.
Despite the horror of what she had just witnessed and astonishingly avoiding injury to her or her watercraft, she circled back around, jumped off her jet ski, and turned her 250 lb. husband upright to observe the gunshot wound to his forehead. You read that correctly, according to Tiffany Hartley, while being chased from behind, David was shot from the front. Hartley maintains this is when she attempted to load him onto her jet ski, and also when two of the three boats were now positioned in front of her.
One of the alleged pirate boats from the front approached her within 10 ft. While she stared down the barrell of his gun, she was holding onto her husband with one hand, her ski with the other asking not to be shot. Apparently through some sort of Mexican telepathy or nautical sign language, the men who just ambushed the couple and murdered her husband in cold blood, made a decision to let her go and retreated IN FRONT OF HER.
Hartley claims she cannot identify any of the men, that they never said a word to her nor could she hear anything they may have said to each other, but believes the motive for the attack to be robbery or to kidnap her. It is not clear how Tiffany arrived at this conclusion as they never made an attempt to stop them or ask them for their money, she was off her $13,000 Sea doo they could have easily taken, and they let her go.
It was at this time that Hartley finally did hear something. She says she heard the voice of God tell her to leave David, save herself and get to safety. However, his instruction must have been non-specific because she proceeded to mount her ski in deep water, start it back up, and drive directly toward and then past the very band of gun weilding murderous cartel who minutes ago gunned down her highschool sweetheart and spouse of 8 years. (Editors note: I cannot imagine the nerve it takes to again have your back to the same crew who, unprovoked, sprayed the lake with bullets behind you while you were fleeing for your life).
While Tiffany admits the couple was aware of recent pirate activity in the area they learned about while David researched the location, she claims they had not heard of anymore incidents on Falcon Lake, which borders both Texas and Mexico, “in a while.”
The Hartley’s, who had recently been on a few tropical vacations, were in the process of relocating to Colorado next week from Reynosa, Mexico and McAllen Texas, where they had lived for only a few months, following David’s transfer request to Calfrac well services.
According to recent Facebook postings, although the couple could not agree on furniture tastes, they recently purchased a house full of it just after a luxury cruise and visit to a seminar for those experiencing financial difficulty.
I would love to be able to do no analysis and regergetate this story as reported by main stream media whereby not one reporter asks the obvious question:
After several known incidents of piracy in that location over the last months, why would the “pirates” suddenly go on a murderous rampage in lieu of attempting to rob a couple on jet skis that could outrun them on sight?
Not gonna happen. I have heard umpteen versions of Ms. Hartley’s version of events leading to the random execution of her husband.
None pass the smell test. However, just today, Zapata County Sheriff “Sigi” Gonzalez, Jr says his investigation, now aided by a witness who is a long standing member of the Zapata community, exonerates Mrs. Hartley of any wrongdoing.
Gonzalez completely rules out foul play on the part of Mrs. Hartley.
“A local witness saw Tiffany Hartley escaping on her jet-ski to the Texas side of the lake,” he said. “She came in at high speed and was being pursued by armed men in a Mexican fishing boat that that the witness clearly observed.”
Gonzalez said the witness was a long-standing member of the Zapata community who was well known to him and regarded as highly credible.
“The testimony of this witness dispels any idea Mrs. Hartley was involved in any wrongdoing regarding the murder of her husband,” he said firmly. “She called in a 911 phone call to our office at around 2:20 p.m. on the day of the incident, immediately after she got to shore, and her statements to my office confirm what the local witness observed.”
Unfortunately, the witness account does not match Tiffany Hartley’s own version of events. At no time has she ever said that she was again chased by the “pirates”, in fact, she claims she left them behind after driving “through” them.
Hartley references recent pirate activity, which is almost verbatim what she says happened to her and David, with the exception of the actual piracy:
On April 30, five people in two different boats were fishing on Falcon Lake and went to the Old Guerrero area, where they were taking photos of the old church. While they were there, a boat with four heavily tattooed men approached the two boats quickly. The men identified themselves as “Federales,” but they were not wearing uniforms. The men boarded the boats, demanded cash and asked “where are the drugs?” The fishermen told the men that they had no drugs and were just fishing and taking photos. They ended up giving the men $200 cash and left the area. The pirates followed the two boats, but the U.S. boats were able to outrun them and the men stopped following once the two boats entered U.S. waters.
In every recorded incident since April, the heavily tattoed pirates posing as “Federales” without uniforms, came upon anchored fishing boats, boarded them, robbed the fisherman at gunpoint of any personal cash, searched for drugs left without any violence. In the Hartley family interview on the Today show, Tiffany states that after David was hit, she circled around, jumped off her jetski, swam over to her husband and because he was “face down in the water” she had to turn him over where she discovered he was shot in the head.
It would seem I am not alone in my quagmire. Mexican Investigators, who hold jurisdiction have already begun to question Ms. Hartley’s story.
Marco Antonio Guerrero Carrizales, the district attorney for the Miguel Aleman Province adjoining Falcon Lake on the Mexican side, has questioned whether Tiffany Hartley was involved in foul play.
Early this morning, Sheriff Sigi Gonzalez announced the Mexican Authorities will be searching the area where David Hartley was murdered, and have committed to “not leaving” until they find him. Tiffany Hartley, accompanied by her parents, but without David’s, filed a missing person report at the Mexican Consulate last night as a matter of procedure to “get the ball rolling”.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates
Madeline Tanner, contributing editor blinkoncrime.com
Images by Klaasend
Related Posts
Related Posts:
1,034 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
@B- I completely agree with you in regards to the AK-47’s and her stories not adding up. I look forward to seeing her with her lawyer on Monday.
@ Lori D.- If you are an experienced boater/jet skier etc. getting those into the water is not that difficult. I was helping my father since I was nine. And we would do it just the two of us. Still think she is full of sh**, but just trying to clarify that they didn’t necessarily need help.
The local papers are sure putting a spin on this story-
“You could feel the bullets,” said Tiffany on Friday, the day after her husband, David Hartley, also formerly of Loveland, was killed.
“You could feel them shoot by you.”
Devastated by the loss of her husband of eight years, Tiffany breaks down when talking about the horrific afternoon that came just a week before the couple planned to move back to Loveland.
But she wants to talk about it, to make people aware of the border violence and to inspire change.
“We were just tourists looking at a church,” she said. “I want (the violence) to stop. It’s stupid.
“The U.S. needs to tighten up on their borders. They need to get more people down here working on their border.”
http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?ID=29653
—Ummm devastated- is one thing she does NOT appear to be-
I realize that people do not all grieve the same way- or behave the same way in times of stress and fear- BUT something is Very wrong with Tiffany’s stories- which seem to change depending on which show she is on, what paper is quoting her, and what day it is….
I heard part of her 911 call and I’ve seen a number of her appearances on tv- and she is strangely devoid of emotion- although she does attempt to cry ‘ala Casey Anthony tissue wiping here and there….
and as for her stance on border patrols- ummm it was she and her husband, by her own account, who were the border jumpers not the Mexican “Pirates”…..
Perhaps it would be better, if she instead of picking up the political hot button issue of Border violence/ closing/patrols- would instead lend her voice – to making sure that Americans and other tourists heed the warnings that are given by their government – not to just assume if something hasn’t happened ‘recently’- it would be okay to ignore the previous warnings-
BTW- recently to Tiffany seems to mean more recent than 1 month earlier– armed robberies or attempted pirating were reported on Falcon Lake and warnings were given: One happened in the month of April, two happened in May, and one in August.
As for what Sheriff’s Gonzalez said merely 2 days after the Sept 30th ‘attack’- I think he should have went with his first thoughts-at least until after a thorough investigation-
“he wondered if she had concocted it as a cover story after murdering her husband himself.”- he goes on to say-
“But, he said, further investigation placed her in the clear.”
* How much investigation can be done in 2 days time?
“He said she was unable to stop sobbing when he spoke with her on Thursday afternoon, and kept asking where her husband’s body was.”
‘She was terrified,’ he told the newspaper. ‘At this time, I can safely say she had nothing to do with her husband’s death.’
* umm IMO sobbing and asking where’s the body and being ‘terrified’ while being questioned by the Sheriff does not = safely saying she had nothing to do with her husbands death.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317197/Tiffany-Hartleys-choice-Husband-wife-shot-Mexican-pirates-Falcon-Lake.html?ITO=1490
It continues to amaze me how many times people will point the finger at and blame a certain stereotype for their crimes. Seems criminals THINK that if their story is “believable” to most (sadly assuming racism, etc) -then people will buy it, and they will succeed.
To name a few:
Susan Smith -a black man stole her car.
Diane Downs -carjacked on a rural road by strange man
Charles Stuart -black gunman carjacking shot pregnant wife, Carol
Bethany Storro -recently in Portland, OR area had everyone running around looking for a black woman who threw acid in her face (it was self-inflicted…)
In this case, the couple was very well versed with the geographical area, political and border climate, -and TYH herself said they were very tuned in to area safety issues, since he was a manager and responsible for staff safety as well as hers. She said they knew of specific pirate crimes in the area
…and surely understood the complications of an international waters investigation.(?) Don’t people who go on cruises know this…? Lots of missing people on cruises in international waters…and helpless families with no answers, no justice, and missing loved ones)
… Did they learn about the complications of these types of disappearances on that cruise? Or was it their own research? Was their Carnival cruise in May then a test-research-run on disappearing in international waters, but they bailed last minute, or never got opportunity? Would be interesting to evaluate their online activity.
Anyway, me it ‘feels like’ they came up with a crime that no one would question in the slightest =a band of Mexican pirates just over the border.
Thanks again Blink for your article -amazing how you have an EYE for these things, when most of us just pass over.
I revised my piece 3x to include and then exclude a George Smith reference, but a June 21st jet ski trip where his jetski “broke”, September cruise and now this.. I kept help the thought.
B
Blink You sumed up my opinion about this case. Getting more pissed off by the minute. Thats exactly how I feel. Its like I cant let this one go. This charade needs to be stopped.
Blink, do you know if any other agencies are investigating into this?
Grumblings that they may if the search comes up empty, but that is all right now.
B
At .44 in the video link provided below from GMA, the news comentator says this of Tiffany – “On the couples ride back she says 3 boats full of teenage pirates chased them firing assault weapons.”
Teenage pirates? Did the commentator misquote or is her story changing? I have heard her say on several interviews that she did not get a look at them because she was staring at the barrel of the gun.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/victim-david-hartleys-remains-mexico-pirate-attack-11801753
“I revised my piece 3x to include and then exclude a George Smith reference, but a June 21st jet ski trip where his jetski “broke”, September cruise and now this.. I kept help the thought.
B”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
George Smith?
March 7th -Dave Ramsey financial seminar
May 25th -Carnival Cruise (Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Cozumel).
June 6th -Furnishing a whole house, prior to a move
June 20th -TYH hopes they will live in McAllen house for more than 7 months (So why did they all of the sudden decide to move back to CO 3 months later?) She reported it was due to the safety issues in the area (yet they went out for a last-blast dangerous outing?)
June 20th – jet ski broke.
Sept 26th -Key West water vacation week
Sept 30th -Pirates take over…
What is the word you use (gazhinta) I can’t find a good definition for that word, btw….what does it mean? a number is a factor of another number?
It is a Jersey word.
Loose translation:
Doesn’t Gahzinta- “Does not go into”
B
It seems you are not posting my comments. I understand the moderation thing and it is not in moderation. They just aren’t showing up at all. It’s your blog. Are you just going to limit posting to those who praise your brilliance? My post was not an opinion it was a fact that you had wrong. Surely you are not that insecure.
Cricket-
Every single post of yours is up, my reply to them in bold. Me thinks you may not have as firm a grasp on the ole moderation thing as you may think.
But in general, yes, posts that praise my brilliance do get first priority.
Posts that praise my beauty AND my brilliance head to the front of the line.
Get over yourself, seriously. You need an innoculation for rude.
B
I am sure you don’t know what post I am talking about. Right.
Waiting with worm on tongue.
B
WAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION TMI!!!!! When people keep over-explaining what happened and offering up possible reasons for a crime, it’s always a red flag.
So basically what TYH is saying is, these Pirates just decided to kill her husband for NO APPARENT REASON AND GAINED NOTHING OUT OF IT. Just did it for the heck of it. Even though they have always robbed, and not killed, in the past. Such cold, calculating Pirates and yet they didn’t think of capturing her / doing whatever to her, taking her jet ski (what happened to the husband’s jet ski? Still floating around out there with the body?)
Any bets on how big the husband’s insurance policy is? Anyone? I sure hope they eventually find his body, and I bet it will show that the shot to the head was a straight one, which would show there is no way he could have been shot from behind, even if he turned his head around to look. Poor guy. All MOO
Hi Blink.
How many bullet holes or streaks from bullets were on her jetski?
No idea. Has not been reported if it has been taken into evidence, but from her statements about having no evidence to back up her account, after being shot at by automatic weapons and holding her bleeding husband for several minutes, I am going to go out on a limb and say none.
B
47.Ragdoll says:
October 7, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Next, she HAD to leave David behind. Why? God told her. God is always the scapegoat.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you carefully read all of her facebook entries you will see that she uses religious references quite often so this remark is not out of character for her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ragdoll says, “…If she went for help, surely his body would still be in the vacinity??????? I’m still not sure if this is a ‘scam’ by the couple. The sister in laws appears hell bent on believing Tiffany. My hinky isn’t off the charts about her, but something is off with the sister, imho.”
COME ON! If help was initiated the moment she got to shore, his body would have been retrieved? Am I crazy to think this?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
U.S. LE is not allowed to cross into Mexico to investigate a crime without permission. My DH tells me he thinks the Zapata Co. Sheriff’s refusal to join the Mexican search is realistic given lack of resources and safety concerns. The feds normally investigate these types of crimes.
“…Posts that praise my beauty AND my brilliance head to the front of the line.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You sure brought a smile to my face, Blink!
Ok- then.
Grace, you are beautiful and brilliant.
Blink heads to front of line
B
Blink – I’ve always pictured you as a perfect 10, kind of like a blonde Zanny the Nanny and of course my secret nickname for you has always been Einstein – I do have a question:
Do you think now with all of the public speculation about Tiffany’s story – that they will request a real interview with her with a ‘seasoned’ detective with a highly calibrated bullshit detector? I have questions about whether or not David was ever at that lake to begin with.
O knock it off you troublemaker, lol!
I was surprised given the fact this is a lake, that Zapata did not launch it’s own rescue/recovery search- how did they know if David somehow was not dead ( she NEVER SAYS HE WAS OBVIOUSLY DEAD, just shot).
Could he have pulled himself up onto his craft and is floating out there incapacitated?
Unlikely, of course, but never the less, what efforts were made to confirm her story other than going into the supply room and getting her a box of kleenex?
Then you have Perry issuing International ultimatums without so much as a picture of HER jetski or vest/clothes, etc. THIS IS A 60 mile lake people, not a bay, not the ocean.
A properly equipped chopper could have been launched in minutes and imaged that lake immediately after she hit the shore- Maybe it is me- I am missing the part about where any person or reporter has asked her point blank- How do you know he was dead when you left him?
It is not international airspace, and if it was, you can certainly see the width of the lake from the US side?
Was that done?
Right now, Mexico has jurisdiction in this case, however, that is certainly based solely on Ms. Hartley’s account of the incident.
I am working on a few ideas if this goes the way it looks to be headed.
B
I doubted this story from the first second…
it makes no sense at all.
THANK YOU, Blink, for having the guts to tackle this one head on..!
And this comment of Tiffany’s, ““We were just tourists looking at a church,” she said. “I want (the violence) to stop. It’s stupid.
“The U.S. needs to tighten up on their borders. They need to get more people down here working on their border.”
SHE WAS ILLEGALLY IN MEXICO!!!!! At least, according to her own story!
I am not minimizing the border problems…they are real.
At the same time, as one who lives half-time in Mexico, and has for years…I HATE the demonization of all of Mexico/Mexicans. It is a beautiful country, filled with mostly good, kind, hospitable people.
Tiffany actually says in one interview (please don’t make me go find it but I will if I have to) that there were no bullet marks/holes on her PWC (personal watercraft).
Blink said:
I am going to go out on a limb and say none.
B
And I’ll bet you’re right. If there are no bullet holes or skimms on her jetski, I say BS. That’s just not possible.
Boz says:
October 7, 2010 at 2:41 pm
How many bullet holes or streaks from bullets were on her jetski?
******
I KNOW I read an article that said she had no damage to her jet ski, but of course, I can’t find it again to post. I’ll look for it though.
Hi Blink, I suppose I should start with the Praise of your beauty having not posted in sometime I forget the gist of things, lol.
If they were having financial difficulties, his body is not found, could he be in Mexico waiting for her to come to him. Could they have planned on going AWOL from the US and spend his insurance money and live in an alias type life? Leave their bills behind? Sounds a bit much…but could they?
Oh, and my praise to your brillance and beauty is in abundance…blogging out, your humble follower of blink on crime. lol
Lol. Note to self- “Your snark will come back to bark” in this “room”.
No matter how you slice it, if she is lying, to whatever degree, she is trouble. If he was involved, so is he.
I am not feeling he is involved right now, I am feeling he is deceased, unfortunately.
B
OMG… another gum chewer!
The Draino woman, recieved 29,000 in donations, and a certain guy, reportedly, recieved 10,000, when his daughter disappeared.
It is very profitable to appear on TV with a heartbreaking story.
You can’t help but think, anyone who shows their face on tube is
going to want donations, or just will accept them if they come.
Interesting story here Blink. I am kind of torn with it. It does seem a bit fishy, but I have to wonder if she is just processing it incorrectly and has some kind of post traumatic stress happening. His family seems to be behind her 100%. I watched this news clip though, and I find it quite odd that I didn’t see one tear streaming down her face and she never wiped away any tears, yet did quite a bit of “crying.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuDGxew9Rhs&feature=related
I am interested in hearing your thoughts on the June incident where the ski broke. You have mentioned it a couple of times and I am having a hard time fitting it in to this story.
His ski is brand new really, and the pics I featured are from that day, so I am not sure when or if it broke.
B
17.Boz says:
October 7, 2010 at 3:11 pm
Blink said:
I am going to go out on a limb and say none.
B
And I’ll bet you’re right. If there are no bullet holes or skimms on her jetski, I say BS. That’s just not possible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry, I don’t have a link for this, but one of the on-scene reporters featured on television last night said he and his colleague looked at her jet ski and found no bullet damage.
found it! gimme a cookie.
Tiffany admitted on “The Early Show” that there is no evidence of a crime because she doesn’t know the state of her husband’s jet ski — because it hasn’t been found — and her jet ski doesn’t have any bullet holes.
oops.. here’s the link
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/07/earlyshow/main6935187.shtml
Tiffany is “scheculed” to be a guest on HLN “Issues” with JVM.
It was just reported on HLN, that Tiffany will be a guest.
Geez, I am puzzled, why isn’t Tiffany hysterical, like anyone who
was in her position, of losing her husband to Teenage Pirates?
She keeps saying she was “looking down at a barrel of a gun”
wow, she is so brave to be so under control.
In response to Janetoo:
You said: “If they were having financial difficulties, his body is not found, could he be in Mexico waiting for her to come to him. Could they have planned on going AWOL from the US and spend his insurance money and live in an alias type life? Leave their bills behind? Sounds a bit much…but could they?”
JMO, but yes, they TOTALLY could do that. People have done it in the past, granted, most have been caught many years later, but it’s been done. He fakes his death, she comes home to tell the story, gets the insurance paperwork started, lies low till the “drama” dies down and rolls out to meet him in paradise with lots of $$$, need to know what kind of policy he did have, which I am SO hoping that is being looked into.
Side note – I have to say though, it has become a sad country when ANY story such as this comes out and we automatically doubt the persons story and credibility and I know that I am VERY guilty of doing the same thing but I guess it’s because we’ve seen way to many bad apples that are spoiling the bunch in the past.
I hope that her story is the truth – well not that he was killed – but you know what I mean, I would love to believe her wholeheartedly but me thinks there is more to this story unfortunately.
Mountaintime – double ditto to you. I’ve spent so much time in Mexico – and I agree we do have border issues BUT – - – the instances where Tiffany invokes “politics” into her husband’s apparent murder and her harrowing personal experience are just plain weird. Wouldn’t you focus on the trauma of the event and not even think about border issues, politics, politicians, etc.? Maybe all of that would come later after grieving. Not within a day or two of watching your loving spouse, who was allegedly trying to protect you (while you were on a highly dangerous/illegal jaunt over the border in Mexico territory) from a marauding band of renegade “drug cartel-controlled pirates” who didn’t take anything of value from you but instead shot your husband with Olympic-level marksmanship? And after all of that drama – they just allowed you to speed off in your bikini with your valuable jet ski/wedding ring/watch and hostage potential?
I hate to see all of Mexico maligned this way. Granted, its too dangerous to drive the highways or venture out of the resort areas right now but you’re right when you say that the vast majority of the citizens are beautiful, friendly and just trying to get by like the rest of us. I feel sorry for the situation they’re having to live with right now.
If the husband were in on it too, wouldn’t it be great reality tv for him to suddenly, inexplicably appear from out of the lake, on his jet ski, with a big band-aid on his forehead?!
Maybe that remark was beyond snarky, but after seeing some of the outrageous stunts like Balloon Boy, I wouldn’t be all that surprised by another stupid tv stunt.
Dabel, I had the same reaction when I heard the reporter mention that the pirates were teenagers. So now Tiffany is able to recall that the bandits were teenagers, even though she was telling everyone that she had no memory of what they looked like, because she was looking down the barrel of a gun.
Make up your mind, Tiffany!
On the gretawire link you posted, check out the second video; interview clip with the (audio only)Sheriff Sigi Gonzalez… at 1:01 in the clip, they show a picture of a jet ski – See-Doo license # is TX 3671AX –two tone green. I imagine it was the actual one…Tiff’s boat, uh, I mean, (chew, chew)jet ski.
Can your team glean any useful information from the license? This might sound off base or stoopid, but perhaps it could be established when these skis where purchased, licensed, where they were licensed and to whom…I don’t know. Just more data to work with as you Blink through this case…And I would comment on your beauty, but don’t know what you look like. But I hear Jersey gals are hotties…?
http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/tiffany-hartley-on-the-record/
Still being a skeptic in this & find it odd that they would hold a memorial service so quickly; I would think you would wait awhile if for nothing else to let the shock of this wear off & at least try & find his body (?).. I’m thinking next step in absence of a body is to go into court to have him declared legally dead & then on to the insurance company.. JMO
Since Tiffany said she went into the water after her husband & he had already been shot I wonder if there were any blood stains soaked into her flotation jacket or on her jet ski hand grips..
Not a good time for any type of International drama..
Great questions Lori D. @ 1:36pm
@ IMOIMO says:
October 7, 2010 at 4:08 pm “…Side note – I have to say though, it has become a sad country when ANY story such as this comes out and we automatically doubt the persons story and credibility…”
Respectfully, isn’t it on the other hand also a very sad country when we hear a story such as some I mentioned earlier (Charles Stuart, Susan Smith, Bethany Storro, -saying “a black [guy] did it”) -and do not question it at all? If you know what I mean. just imoimo too!
Blink,
Would they pay out on life insurance without a body? How does that work? I thought so many years had to go by without the person “surfacing” to declare someone dead.
Many, many what if’s in this question mjh, but in general, under the right set of circumstances, yes.
B
@ Madilu –
“Respectfully, isn’t it on the other hand also a very sad country when we hear a story such as some I mentioned earlier (Charles Stuart, Susan Smith, Bethany Storro, -saying “a black [guy] did it”) -and do not question it at all? If you know what I mean. just imoimo too!”
Yes it really is, I totally agree, it’s just sad the views we seem to be programmed to accept these days, a black man did it, we do not question it, a woman says her husband was murdered in front of her on a jet ski and we’re like “yeah right”. A 7 year old boy disappears from school and automatically his step-mom is accused by the public (not that I don’t disagree with that one
) I guess I’m just saying that it really isn’t innocent until proven guilty, it’s guilty until proven innocent and I’ve never said it aloud until now.
@ JEN says:
October 7, 2010 at 9:04 am
@Zinnia, I am on that political page as well. Interesting timing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I’m on that page with you..
Per Blink: “Then you have Perry issuing International ultimatums without so much as a picture of HER jetski or vest/clothes, etc. THIS IS A 60 mile lake people, not a bay, not the ocean.”
——
If this is a lake (Blink said 60 miles), if the story occurred in any way like Tiffany has said and he was even out on the water that day, the jetski/body would almost certainly turn up on some shore around the lake within the month at least, even more likely if he had his life vest on. I grew up on the shores of Lake Erie, which is bigger than this lake, and any time I have heard of someone going missing from a boat they eventually turn up somewhere on the shore. As Blink said, this is not the ocean, the jetski/body, if out there, and not weighed down somehow, is not going to just disappear into oblivion.
I spent the last hour mapping this via satellite images. If they launched at the state park, someone is going to have to explain to me why they were not in full view of the US side, the entire time, even when they ventured over, at all times.
If they launched at the Northern end, by the estates, someone is going to have to explain to me where they stopped to refuel, and this is bunk.
Anytime any of our seasoned investigators turned pundits wants to weigh in I am all ears.
B
http://www.valleymorningstar.com/news/questioned-81675-report-woman.html
Zapata County investigators gathered no hard evidence that could back up Young-Hartley’s story upon making contact with her Thursday afternoon, Gonzalez said.
No blood was seen on her swimsuit, nor were there any bullet holes on her personal watercraft. A witness who first saw Young-Hartley racing across the lake backed up her story that gunmen tailed her back into U.S. territory.
“We did not (check) at the time,” Gonzalez said. “There was no indication that we needed to check for anything.”
Actually, other law enforcement investigators said trace evidence of blood could still be recovered off of Young-Hartley’s clothing — though it apparently was not — which would further support her case.
The sheriff said he at first suspected Young-Hartley may not have been truthful with deputies, but soon believed her after talking with her and the witness — a Zapata resident who fears retribution from pirates.
Other U.S. law enforcement investigators, meanwhile, said they doubted Young-Hartley’s account of what she said transpired on Thursday, though none would comment publicly.
Gonzalez said Young-Hartley told investigators her husband was shot in the back of the head and the bullet went through his forehead.
Yeah, cause the “pirates” are going to come into Texas and get the witness who saw some boats, but can’t identify them or the people in them in any way. The sheriff seems to have been easily swayed by a pretty blonde shedding tears. Wouldn’t they have run tests for evidence of blood on her clothes and jet ski even if they believed her? Isn’t that standard police procedure?
If the “pirates” shot her husband and then had the opportunity to shoot her, why wouldn’t they have done so? Her story is just so full of holes, depending on which story she is telling, cause she’s told quite a few different ones.
And I didn’t realize there was already a Megan posting here, hence the name change.
If Perry wants to be re-elected he will follow my advice-
I may even follow up with him tomorrow on this.
Remove Sheriff Gonzalez and request the FBI investigate this case before this very nice man ruins his entire law career for his mistakes in this case. I say this respectfully, but if those are actual quotes, he should be made aware he is in line for a promotion to scapegoat.
Are you even kidding me “he did not know to look for anything”?
Shameful.
B
this video was on the Fox News web site
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4362703/ambushed-on-falcon-lake/?playlist_id=86856
Okay, this seems pretty obvious to me, but why do people who are lying about crimes go on show after show? I have enough trouble keeping the details of truthful stories straight, let alone lies. They are committing the details to video and print. I guess the 15 min of fame are just too tempting. It seems to me if you are going to try to get away with something you ought to shut yer trap.
Loved the answer to Cricket. Best response ever!
50%- because they want to make sure people keep believing them.
50%- the get paid an imaging fee for any pics used, which is standard.
Jane Velez-Mitchell will have Tiffany on her show Issues tonight at 7:00pm EST
I don’t know the validity to this news station, but it seems they somehow have another spin on the same story, maybe it could just be chalked up to bad reporting or another story told by the wife:
“His wife Tiffany Young-Hartley survived the alleged attack and returned to the American side with the help of a witness whose identity is being protected.”
-This makes it sound like someone “rescued” her and brought her back to the American side
“Sheriff Gonzalez said he sent a message to the Zetas cartel that all American officials are asking for is Hartley’s body.”
-In Tiffany’s own story, didn’t the “pirates” take off away from the body and leave it ?
“Although some Mexican police and others doubt Tiffany Young-Hartley’s version of events, the three congressmen and Sheriff Gonzalez reiterated their support for her.
They said blood on her vest and an eyewitness account support her claims.”
-Whoa, where did this account of blood on her vest come from???
And the last sentence “Cuellar and the others said the incident underscores the need for more funding for border security as well as a bill to allow the Coast Guard to patrol Falcon Lake, Lake Amistad and parts of the Rio Grande.” Pretty much spells out Mr. Cuellar’s political stakes in his support of this story.
http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=522785
And Blink, to respond to your “I spent the last hour mapping this via satellite images. If they launched at the state park, someone is going to have to explain to me why they were not in full view of the US side, the entire time, even when they ventured over, at all times.”
This article http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=522317 seems to prove your point “But while out on the water, Pam Hartley said they didn’t see anyone searching on the Mexican side.” By that standard, was there not anyone else on the lake that day that should have seen this dramatic pirate attack?
Everyone know that Falcon Park got zero grants this year, as opposed to the almost $1 Billion paid out, right?
B
http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=522785
This article says-
Although some Mexican police and others doubt Tiffany Young-Hartley’s version of events, the three congressmen and Sheriff Gonzalez reiterated their support for her.
They said blood on her vest and an eyewitness account support her claims.
Which is so confusing, cause other articles have the sheriff saying there was no blood on her clothes or that they didn’t check her clothing. Every article and interview has different facts about this crime that seem to contradict each other.
Haven’t been here in awhile, but I find this story extremely suspect, and I believe the husband and wife are both in on this to scam some money out of it. It takes I think 7 years to declare someone legally dead after a disappearance. I look for the wife to file some kind of lawsuit over this for big bucks. They probably need $$ now, and then hope to claim death benefit later. Husband probably already disguised in some way. This is not how “pirates” do business, or drug cartels. Remember the boyfriend of Olivia Newton John tried this? Disappearing himself from a boat and was later found I think living in a resort area in Mexico. ONJ was of course not in any way part of the scam.
Actually, a report of death in foreign land can take the place of a regular death certificate for some carriers.
I had the same conversation with a colleague about Olivia Newton Johns man-
B
Blink – what would it take to get subpoenas to search their house/cars/computers/digital devices?
Right now?
A criminal action or alleged criminal action filed in the US. Actually, a telling update would be if US LE asked her to also file a MP case in TX, in the event she was incorrect and she last saw him “wounded” in the US section of the lake?
I saw the wreath placement earlier and got very excited! I was like, damn, are they smart enough to get her to place that wreath on the US side as the place she last saw him so THEY CAN begin a US investigation?
I certainly hope so.
B
@another Megan.
I’m confused too. Suddenly there’s blood evidence? I really think the sheriff is trying to make this go away as rapidly as possible.
here’s another link to that story.. not sure if any new info in it.
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16279531?source=rss
Maybe somebody should tell Tiffany there actually is blood evidence of her husband’s death.
Or someone could just ask Gonzalez where the vest is, and the other questions I posted 2 days ago.
How would they know if it was actually blood? Whose blood?
Seriously, this is like, painful. Three congressman are down there who HAVE NOT made contact with the Mexican Officials in charge and won’t help.
They will hate the reference, but this is as bush league as it gets.
B
Here are some things I’m pondering – don’t want to assume anything and just my humble opinion…
In Texas, a death certificate can be issued by the court after evidence is presented to the court and the judge agrees and signs off on it. Wouldn’t this eliminate any need for a 7 year waiting period for life insurance benefits?
I believe a family friend stated David worked at xyz company up until about seven months ago. Was he laid off (like so many in this ecomony)? How could he have moved back to USA (McAllen)if he had been laid off? Where was he currently working?
If the friend was misquoted and he still currently works for same company that put him in Mexico, it’s quite possible that he had a very generous company paid life insurance policy as part of a relocation package to entice workers to accept foreign assignments.
He still works for his co.
That is correct, yes, but she would not even need it, she would apply for the Mexican version of a certificate of death, using pretty much only her word if nothing else is found.
B
minor comment, but as an avid jetskiier, I can weight in that “boat” is interchangeable with “jetski” or “ski”. A jetski IS a boat, for all intents and purposes (i.e., vehicle registration, licensing.) We call ours a ski or boat. I have seen this come up in several of the linked pieces and wanted to clarify. There is plenty to pick apart with Tiff’s story, but this issue shouldn’t be a huge one. (Switching between the two terms within the same sentence, however, does seem to have the effect that Seamus mentions… gun vs. weapon. Same object reference, but word choice is everything. A Forensic linguist would have a field day…)
and P.S. your brilliance and compassion is beautiful. =)
lol lol. Up you go.
Seriously, I am done with it, was funny, back to biz
B
Tiffany is on Jane Velez Mitchell’s show now & the story is embellishing as she speaks..
o.k the camera with all of the pic’s was with David on his jetski