David Hartley Gunned Down On Jet Ski In Mexico : Tiffany Young-Hartley Facing Scrutiny
According to his wife, Tiffany Young-Hartley, who called 911, David Hartley, 30, was gunned down by Mexican pirates while the couple ventured across the Falcon Resovior lakes US border to take pictures of the “Mexican Atlantis” or Old Guerreo.
Hartley says her husband was shot in the head and as a result “flew” off his jet ski while the couple was returning from the landmark on the Mexican side of the lake, after taking pictures. She goes on to say she became aware of 3 different boats chasing down the couple only after she saw bullets hitting the water next to her. As she turned around to see where they were coming from, she claims she witnessed her husbands murder.
David was driving a new Sea Doo RXT ski that can climb from 0–30MPH in 1.7 seconds and is capable of top-end speeds of over 60 MPH. Blinkoncrime.com has not been able to confirm which model Ms. Hartley was driving. The couple had been on at least one earlier jet ski jaunt while still in Mexico, but was cut short due to a mishap with David’s craft on June 20th.
According to his wife, David was face-down in the water, wearing a life vest, after he was shot.
Despite the horror of what she had just witnessed and astonishingly avoiding injury to her or her watercraft, she circled back around, jumped off her jet ski, and turned her 250 lb. husband upright to observe the gunshot wound to his forehead. You read that correctly, according to Tiffany Hartley, while being chased from behind, David was shot from the front. Hartley maintains this is when she attempted to load him onto her jet ski, and also when two of the three boats were now positioned in front of her.
One of the alleged pirate boats from the front approached her within 10 ft. While she stared down the barrell of his gun, she was holding onto her husband with one hand, her ski with the other asking not to be shot. Apparently through some sort of Mexican telepathy or nautical sign language, the men who just ambushed the couple and murdered her husband in cold blood, made a decision to let her go and retreated IN FRONT OF HER.
Hartley claims she cannot identify any of the men, that they never said a word to her nor could she hear anything they may have said to each other, but believes the motive for the attack to be robbery or to kidnap her. It is not clear how Tiffany arrived at this conclusion as they never made an attempt to stop them or ask them for their money, she was off her $13,000 Sea doo they could have easily taken, and they let her go.
It was at this time that Hartley finally did hear something. She says she heard the voice of God tell her to leave David, save herself and get to safety. However, his instruction must have been non-specific because she proceeded to mount her ski in deep water, start it back up, and drive directly toward and then past the very band of gun weilding murderous cartel who minutes ago gunned down her highschool sweetheart and spouse of 8 years. (Editors note: I cannot imagine the nerve it takes to again have your back to the same crew who, unprovoked, sprayed the lake with bullets behind you while you were fleeing for your life).
While Tiffany admits the couple was aware of recent pirate activity in the area they learned about while David researched the location, she claims they had not heard of anymore incidents on Falcon Lake, which borders both Texas and Mexico, “in a while.”
The Hartley’s, who had recently been on a few tropical vacations, were in the process of relocating to Colorado next week from Reynosa, Mexico and McAllen Texas, where they had lived for only a few months, following David’s transfer request to Calfrac well services.
According to recent Facebook postings, although the couple could not agree on furniture tastes, they recently purchased a house full of it just after a luxury cruise and visit to a seminar for those experiencing financial difficulty.
I would love to be able to do no analysis and regergetate this story as reported by main stream media whereby not one reporter asks the obvious question:
After several known incidents of piracy in that location over the last months, why would the “pirates” suddenly go on a murderous rampage in lieu of attempting to rob a couple on jet skis that could outrun them on sight?
Not gonna happen. I have heard umpteen versions of Ms. Hartley’s version of events leading to the random execution of her husband.
None pass the smell test. However, just today, Zapata County Sheriff “Sigi” Gonzalez, Jr says his investigation, now aided by a witness who is a long standing member of the Zapata community, exonerates Mrs. Hartley of any wrongdoing.
Gonzalez completely rules out foul play on the part of Mrs. Hartley.
“A local witness saw Tiffany Hartley escaping on her jet-ski to the Texas side of the lake,” he said. “She came in at high speed and was being pursued by armed men in a Mexican fishing boat that that the witness clearly observed.”
Gonzalez said the witness was a long-standing member of the Zapata community who was well known to him and regarded as highly credible.
“The testimony of this witness dispels any idea Mrs. Hartley was involved in any wrongdoing regarding the murder of her husband,” he said firmly. “She called in a 911 phone call to our office at around 2:20 p.m. on the day of the incident, immediately after she got to shore, and her statements to my office confirm what the local witness observed.”
Unfortunately, the witness account does not match Tiffany Hartley’s own version of events. At no time has she ever said that she was again chased by the “pirates”, in fact, she claims she left them behind after driving “through” them.
Hartley references recent pirate activity, which is almost verbatim what she says happened to her and David, with the exception of the actual piracy:
On April 30, five people in two different boats were fishing on Falcon Lake and went to the Old Guerrero area, where they were taking photos of the old church. While they were there, a boat with four heavily tattooed men approached the two boats quickly. The men identified themselves as “Federales,” but they were not wearing uniforms. The men boarded the boats, demanded cash and asked “where are the drugs?” The fishermen told the men that they had no drugs and were just fishing and taking photos. They ended up giving the men $200 cash and left the area. The pirates followed the two boats, but the U.S. boats were able to outrun them and the men stopped following once the two boats entered U.S. waters.
In every recorded incident since April, the heavily tattoed pirates posing as “Federales” without uniforms, came upon anchored fishing boats, boarded them, robbed the fisherman at gunpoint of any personal cash, searched for drugs left without any violence. In the Hartley family interview on the Today show, Tiffany states that after David was hit, she circled around, jumped off her jetski, swam over to her husband and because he was “face down in the water” she had to turn him over where she discovered he was shot in the head.
It would seem I am not alone in my quagmire. Mexican Investigators, who hold jurisdiction have already begun to question Ms. Hartley’s story.
Marco Antonio Guerrero Carrizales, the district attorney for the Miguel Aleman Province adjoining Falcon Lake on the Mexican side, has questioned whether Tiffany Hartley was involved in foul play.
Early this morning, Sheriff Sigi Gonzalez announced the Mexican Authorities will be searching the area where David Hartley was murdered, and have committed to “not leaving” until they find him. Tiffany Hartley, accompanied by her parents, but without David’s, filed a missing person report at the Mexican Consulate last night as a matter of procedure to “get the ball rolling”.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates
Madeline Tanner, contributing editor blinkoncrime.com
Images by Klaasend
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Do gangs do this kind of activity? Kill someone in cold blood and then leave the area – no robbery, no motive, just for fun?
IDK – just asking.
(Personally, I think he is hiding out somewhere.)
David’s sister according to this web site made the following statement:
snip
“This is a concern for every citizen, every family,” said Nikki Hartley, David’s sister, who lives in Greeley.
“This is a border control issue. … We shouldn’t have places in the U.S. we can’t go.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Odd I thought the issue was her brother being shot & not being able to find his body..
http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?ID=29730
I thought her brother was shot in Mexico, which in this case, means it was he and Tiffany that crossed the border illegally?
B
Posting on both highly active threads:
I am in receipt of over 42 private posts in 2 cases overnight, lol.
Some are voluminous and require extensive research to vett, and may not be appropriate to post, so I ask for patience until we have an opportunity to do same. I wanted to acknowledge them, you guys are stellar researchers.
While we all have strong feelings about these cases, it cannot either compromise them, or make accusations that could harm others needlessly.
A good rule of thumb is to ask ourselves, what if this person was a member of my family?
Blink, I totally agree with you. If she passes a legit polygraph test I will absolutely back her 100%. But right now it doesn’t add up.
As far as the witness goes, IMHO, there’s something kinda fishy going on there. Why the secrecy and anonymity?
To my knowledge, head wounds create a LARGE amount of bleeding.
I was in a boat (skiing size) when a family member cut his head on a rock in the lake. (Diving into the lake). We had to rush him to shore to a hospital. I did not attend to him, his parents did. I moved aside in the boat so I would not be in the way.
At the end of the day, I had a significant amount of blood on me – without being in contact directly with him. Just sayin…
PS He ended up being fine.
Where is the blood? – did she say she tried to turn him over?
Here is another article:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/mexico_rejects_claims_theyre_not_looking_hard_enough_for_hartley_104604329.html
I am just hoping that LE can find David’s body soon, and I am keeping his family in my prayers.
An excerpt from above:
[...] not become so jaded that we dismiss the words of the wife over that of Mexican authorities. However, that is not to say we do not have the right to speculate and question if the story does not add up, like in the case of murdered honeymooner George [...]
@ zinnia says:
October 9, 2010 at 11:29 am
As far as the witness goes, IMHO, there’s something kinda fishy going on there. Why the secrecy and anonymity?
*******
The sheriff says its because hes afraid of retaliation. Everything about this case is fishy.
http://www.themonitor.com/articles/releases-43464-suspected-video.html
The video shows at least three troopers stopping Hartley’s white truck in Rio Grande City. Hartley’s trailer, which carried two jet skis, apparently had expired tags. One trooper asked Hartley about his Colorado license.
“Been working and living, well, temporarily living in McAllen,” Hartley said. “I was in Reynosa for about three years but they moved me back to McAllen because of all the (inaudible).”
After about nine minutes, the troopers let Hartley go with a warning.
To me personally the blood stain found on this life vest only means that at some point in time someone got a cut & got blood on the life vest.. JMO
Lemme say this, it would take a reputable lab about an hour to type and cross that blood to David or Tiffany’s type. I am assuming his own CSI resources did a field test to see if it was blood, however, since the words are flying now “invisible to the naked eye” to say there was a blood smear without a field test is complete BS.
Depending upon the sample, and I can bet you Mexico would pay for this, a proper DNA test could take 24 hours.
If Mexico has the investigative burden, I question how Sigi had jurisdiction on his own to do that in the first place, if he did. You can’t just farm out evidence in a criminal investigation with no controls…
The “sample” is a red herring, imo, because every reasonable person saw what the Sheriff apparently did not.
B
@ Kari – Puh-leaze. No one is forcing you to read BOC. If you don’t like what you read here (people’s opinions, in a free country) then don’t come here. The rest of us feel that the exchange of opinions often brings to light some very important information. Do you think LE never comes here? If all of us kept our “horrible opinions” to ourselves, it wouldn’t be much of a website and it certainly wouldn’t be very helpful to anyone. What are we supposed to do if things don’t make sense, just keep posting “nice” and “pure” thoughts and not question anything that seems amiss?
If Tiffany’s story made sense then why does it keep changing like a chameleon, to another story and another one (and another 50)? If an event actually occurs, you remember and you tell it pretty much the same way every time. There are behaviors that people exhibit when they aren’t being truthful and Tiffany exhibits ALL of them. Her stories aren’t even CLOSE in some cases. And she’s not showing any convincing grief. You people need to get your heads out of the sand and look at the logic and you will see why Blink and lots of the rest of us question what happened.
IMOO, I’m thinking more and more that he’s alive in Mexico and none of this ever happened. That’s why no tears. He’s not dead. And remember, NONE of the fishermen and others in the area heard ANY gunshots that day, not even one. TYH and DH were going to financial seminars I read somewhere I think – so they were very interested in figuring out how to make more money. They have lived in Mexico and they certainly know the ropes. Maybe it wouldn’t have been that hard for them to get some Mexican friends to chase them in a boat, just for show. And making all these talk shows in the midst of her horror and grief (seriously, ladies if you had seen the man you love gunned down and his brains hanging out and gurgling noises and all, wouldn’t you be in shock for at least a month?! Not Tiffany! She was conducting interviews from Day One), and not to mention the rushed memorial service….wow it seems TYH certainly WANTS him to be declared dead, even if he isn’t – she is DETERMINED that he is dead. Is she trying to hurry the insurance money along? Hey if there’s no insurance money or other money to be gained, I’ll be the first one to say I was wrong and there was no reason for her to want him dead (or declared dead).
Also, after reading about the type of life vest he had on, one that would flip him over if unconscious and one that also had reflective markings on it to make it easy to find, I’m thinking he just wasn’t in the water dead in the first place. If the life vest should flip him over, why did Tiffany have to flip him over herself? It’s just too convenient for her to come out and say the pirates would take him onto dry land – how would she know what they would do, and why would they bother? If she was in the water holding him and he was bleeding profusely and his brains were falling out as she says, wouldn’t there be some traces of blood (and possibly brain matter) all over her jacket? If there is blood on her vest and it turns out through DNA to be David’s, okay that could have been planned too – a small deliberate cut, no problem.
If Tiffany really loved David that much and she was brave enough to go back and try to get him, then plead with the pirates not to shoot her when they came up and put a gun to her face (I guess they understood English), and then they backed off at that moment and went away, then why wasn’t she brave enough to stay with him, or attach him and drag him back? She says the pirates turned and started to come back. Well geez, how far away were they? Their boats must have been pretty slow, because she had enough time to decide that she’s not so brave after all, leave David, climb onto her jetski (not quick and easy when you’re in the water with a life vest on), start her jetski, and fly out of there before they caught up with her. Wow these pirates were such good shots they took out David in the head but yet they missed her over and over again? They had the opportunity to shoot her point black practically and didn’t? IDK, maybe they were courteous pirates and they just couldn’t bear to shoot a woman……this whole story doesn’t make any sense from beginning to end. MOO
“I thought her brother was shot in Mexico, which in this case, means it was he and Tiffany that crossed the border illegally?”
B
*************************************
Thank you. That has been my point from the get-go. The couple themselves broke surely more than one law -they were allegedly at the church -at least FIVE MILES outside the US border- KNOWINGLY…in a danger zone known to them…I could scream too!
And Nana2, Nikki’s statement “We shouldn’t have places in the U.S. we can’t go.” RU Kidding me? And now this is about Border Control, and not the swift recovery of her brother and JUSTICE for him?
I understand the need for grieving people to have an outlet, I do.
That said, I find the effort misplaced as the Mexican DA et al are actively looking for David, as opposed to Sheriff “Sigi” who declined the offer to join the search, but took the boot ride on the treacherous water with CNN. He apparently has the same luck as Ms. Hartley, to come away without injury.
B
Blink, I know you are so busy with all these post, but this story has so many people ‘fired’ up. Something isn’t adding up. I was thrilled to see you posted your insight on this story. I started following you, after the Kyron Horman case. I was searching all over the net the other day, trying to find people who were in agreement with me about this Mexico/Jetski/Tiffany case. I wasn’t following the case, until I saw Tiffany on the Today show last week. As I watched her with her fake little sniffling and tissue in hand, remembering the story of her husband behing shot, I was saying to myself, she’s soooo not telling the truth It appeared that she was reading from a script. I think there are more people involved, helping with the cover-up. Maybe some payoffs on the Mexican side. Wonder if this couple was in major debt, living such a lavish lifestyle, with their constant travels, jet skis, motorcyles and more. Hope LE is looking into all their finanacial background. Something is sooo off about this story and I don’t know, I still think this was a plan all set up by her husband. I get this feeling he’s alive. Red flag that she is not willing to take a lie detector test.
I ended up revising the Statement Analysis.
I began it not knowing the case (blissfully unaware) when someone saw the interview with Greta and thought there was deception. I was then more surprised at the strength of the support of those who insist she is truthful, even attacking those who doubt:
Jane Velez Mitchell : “she’s being revictimized”
Mike Brooks
Vinnie Politan
Mark Eiglarsh
Gov. Davis
Sheriff Gonzalez
and on and on.
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/10/statement-analysis-of-tiffany-hartley.html
Do most people feel, even instinctively, that she is truthful?
I did analysis of her interview with JVM and it tested as deceptive, linguistically.
And…her story keeps changing.
JVM had a pyschotherapist who went as far as to say that the changing stories proves she is telling the truth.
Peter Hyatt
Peter, nice job.
I am astonished at the lack of investigative questions *not* being asked of some solid investigative reporters.
No offense to Meredith Viera, I am a fan, but when she is the only journalist who has the gumption to directly ask Tiffany Hartley if she was involved, It makes me nervous.
B
Guilty! Nancy Grace believes everything she says. I, myself, do not. This story does not add up. Is there an insurance policy, if so, how much? Worth killing someone for or doing a disappearing act and then they meet happily together in some foreign country when the heat has died down? For losing her husband, she sure doesn’t have any emotional attachment to her husband, but then again, if she did love him and he was alive, then there wouldn’t be any cause for an emotional upset. Do you really think that this woman would stick around if she could flea when she knows there is a real problem being played out right in front of her very own eyes. If that was me, I be damned if I would have tried to turn over my husband in the water, all while hanging onto my jet ski. I would have been gone so fast, even bullets being fired at me couldn’t have caught me. That is the reaction that any normal person would have if in fact her story about bullets and pirates were the truth. She is lying, I just know it. The witness she has, bullsh*t, it doesn’t hold any water for me. Time will tell, little girl and you will be going down. Where’s the tears?
Enough said!!!!!
Hmmmm and the politics keeps getting more interesting when taken in to historical context:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/the_search_continues_for_the.php
[snip'd]
For years, dating back to the Bush administration, Gonzalez has been calling for more federal funding and resources for border security. He helped found and led a coalition of border sheriffs in Texas that received millions in funds from Gov. Rick Perry (R).
Before the pirates, Gonzalez was one of the drivers of the argument that the southern border provided an opportunity for terrorists, and that local sheriffs needed more resources to deal with the threat.
“If smugglers can bring a hundred people or 2,000 pounds of marijuana into the United States, how simple would it be to bring terrorists into this country, or a suitcase loaded with a dirty bomb?” Gonzalez told The Washington Times on October 14, 2005 (via Nexis). “I am very surprised it hasn’t already happened.”
A sizable amount of Federal funding went to parks this year. None to Falcon, that has to be a hit to the efforts of Sheriff Gonzalez, I agree.
B
Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez said the investigation so far has indicated Young-Hartley is telling the truth. Evidence corroborating Tiffany Hartley’s story includes a tiny smear of blood on her life vest, Gonzalez said.
—————–
Wait, a tiny smear of blood? Are you kidding me? If he was shot in the head and little Tiffany was trying with all her might to get him, while bleeding, on to her jet ski, I highly doubt just a tiny, small smear of blood would be the only evidence.
=============
Also, the Sheriff said, Thursday, that Mexican officials invited his office to participate in the search last night, but that he declined the offer “because it’s dangerous.
Mexican authorities had been out on Friday and Saturday searching for David Hartley’s body. Gonzalez said the a Mexican official told him that “today, starting around 10 o’clock this morning they’re going to have several boats, helicopters, ski jets, looking in that area all over again. And they’re not going to stop until they find something, or until all efforts have been exhausted.
————–
Doubt they are going to find any body. Don’t think he was even murdered out on that lake. Tiffany says for sure he is dead, but is he really? Hmmmmmm….
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/tx_sheriff_declined_invite_to_help_with_search_for.php
Translation: They have already told her they ran aerials and sidescan sonar, have clear pics and neither he or the jet ski is there.
B
Interesting, sidescan sonar, will detect a vessel or no vessel at sea?
Did the Pirate’s hook Davids body to the Ski Doo, then sped-off?
Did the “Pirate’s” sell David’s body parts? His Kidneys, etc?
Did the Pirates’s take David’s body, only to use to terrorize others?
Was David’s body, taken for the Life Vest?
I am trying to give Tiffany the benefit of the doubt.
Poor David would have been so messy.
Things that make me go hmmm…Why didn’t these two have cell phones with them in such a dangerous place?
I keep going back to the FB on June 20th, where she claims David’s jet ski broke. What if on that date they were trying to set this plan in motion and the plates were expired (or whatever) but they were not pulled over on that occasion. Being pulled over puts to rest any speculation that David was killed somewhere else and was not on the lake.
I think they WANTED to be pulled over to establish the fact David was alive and TOLD the officers their plans. I think both Husband and Wife are in on this.
Dear Kari,
Hello. Thank you for posting your thoughts and for “sticking up” for your friend Tiffany.
You are right to question us on who we think we are to sit in judgment over Tiffany-
I agree with you, no one should offer up whether or not we think Tiffany is guilty of anything criminal. After all, how could we know that? If we were to believe almost everything written elsewhere- Tiffany has been “proven” to have nothing to do with her husbands death.
But excuse me, Kari, without a body, without a witness to the shooting, how can YOU be sure what happened to David?
I realize Tiffany is your friend, and you know her, and care for her, and believe her to be a truthful person. You go to the same church, where I assume you both were taught the Ten Commandments. But Kari, there are thousands of cases of good church going people, who know the Ten Commandments that have broken them. Church going people, lie, they cheat, they commit adultery, they covet their neighbor’s house, car, boats ,on and on…
Thousands of these people have been found guilty in a court of law for committing crimes- killing their spouse, or children or neighbor- each of these people had family and friends and members of their Church, that came forward to say- I would never have believed ___ to be capable of doing this- ____ seemed to be a fine, upstanding caring wife, mother, friend….
We only want an investigation-
You asked, who are we to sit her and judge Tiffany? We are a group of Tiffany’s peers asking questions. We shouldn’t judge without knowing ALL the facts. But we are right to ask questions. David deserves to have these questions asked and answered.
Terri, why are YOU and David’s other friends NOT asking these and other questions? Why are you and TIffany’s friends and family NOT demanding that OUR government and OUR LE agencies conduct a INTENSIVE investigation into Tiffany and her account/S of what happened that day?
She is the last person to have seen David, her husband alive- She says he is now dead- She said he was shot in the head- She says she didn’t do it-His body is missing-
take away the border BS and the Pirate Story, and her courageousness of trying to lift him – and ANYONE would be asking these same questions-
As I wrote before Terri, I do not know what happened to David. I don’t know if what Tiffany has said is the truth or not- What I do know is that there have been SEVERAL DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS given by Tiffany. Are there discrepancies because she is scared and in shock, nothing more nefarious than that? Possibly, I don’t know. Respectfully NEITHER do you, Terrri
So please TERRI, for her sake, for your sake, for our country’s sake, for David and his family’s sake, ASK for a intensive investigation- ask Tiffany to take a lie detector test.
I really hope that Tiffany has been truthful. I just think we need to be sure she has been. Especially before we jump to any conclusions- conclusions of guilt or innocence oor conclusions of alive or dead.
I would really hate for any of David’s friends and family to wake up one day in the future, and begin to question everything later on- and NOT be able to get the answers to these unanswered questions and concerns that we here, have had the audacity to ask.
BTW, Terri, I and many others have been, and continue to pray for David and his family and friends and for his wife. My Sincere condolences.
Peace
oops sorry Kari- I don’t why I suddenly started calling you Terri midway- That was an oversight on my part and I apologize Kari.
http://www.themonitor.com/video/?videoId=629384527001&lineupId=1155327278
Above link is Dashcam footage of officers stopping David Hartley and Tiffany Young-Hartley on their way to Falcon Reservoir, same day of the supposed murder.
The police follow the Hartleys for about 3 minutes, then when they have them pulled over they talk to them for 9 minutes.
—————————
Anyone know where there is a transcipt of what was said?
You can hear David talking to the police, but it’s hard to make out what he is saying, because of traffic noise passing by. Also, the police are really looking over David’s stuff. You can tell they are checking the VIN numbers on his jetskis to make sure they are not stolen, it seems.
IDK. but getting pulled over by the police for an expired tags on the jetski trailer, in a town on the way to the lake, I am finding that odd as well. Why? Welll…just by chance, the day they get pulled over, caught on tape in a small town, knowing they have expired tags, that it just so happens this is the day David goes missing. Then his wife, his sweet little wife, goes all over the news media claiming she knows for sure, he is dead. It’s not unheard of, but it has been done, where deaths have been faked for financial hardship or gain. If Tiffany was the one that didn’t return to shore that day, we all know that society would thought that the ‘man’ the ‘husband’ was probably involved somehow. Since Tiffany is the smaller, innocent looking wife, maybe this couple thought everyone would believe everything coming out of her mouth.
Interesting that Tiffany has not agreed to a polygraph test yet and when asked the other day if she knew her husband was dead, she answered “yes, I don’t think they will find anything”. Someone on here posted a link, it was CNN when she said that. That’s such an odd thing to say.
What topped the cake for me, is when she stumbled on live TV, when asked if she would be willing to take a polygraph. If she was not guilty of any wrong doing, she should of had an auto response and saying ‘yes, for sure.’
IMO
It really bothers me the stance that sheriff Gonzalez has taken with this case. For him not to show any skepticism over Tiffany’s story and all of the discrepancies, it just seems wrong to me. It kind of seems like he really wants it to be true to fit his border patrol agenda. I hate to say it like that, but unless he is really not very bright (and why would he have a position of such authority if he’s not very bright?), there’s something very strange going on with him.
Could there be a lot more to the story, than just a crooked young married couple trying to get away from debt? I just hope and pray that this situation gets properly investigated, thoroughly, by the right agencies, both in the U.S. and in Mexico.
MOM-3
LOL, Now who could you have been thinking of?
So in previous incidents on Falcon Lake, the pirates have been careful not to follow boats back into U.S. waters, naturally because they don’t want the U.S. on their asses. Why would they then next time shoot and kill an American citizen? Now THAT would certainly get the unwanted attention of the U.S. What pirates want that kind of attention on them? They have enough trouble dealing with Mexico LE, now they want to be in the crosshairs of the LE from the U.S. as well? Doubt it. All MOO
The reason David and his jetski can’t be found is because he took the jetski out of the water himself and left with it. Then Tiffany hightailed it back alone with her story. Another MOO
It’s hard for me to be patient while LE investigates this first as a murder on the lake by Mexican pirates. I’m waiting for the part where they’ve exhausted all efforts to find him and they then turn their full attention to Tiffany. It’s gonna happen.
@ nana2 says:
October 9, 2010 at 12:32 pm
To me personally the blood stain found on this life vest only means that at some point in time someone got a cut & got blood on the life vest.. JMO
Lemme say this, it would take a reputable lab about an hour to type and cross that blood to David or Tiffany’s type. I am assuming his own CSI resources did a field test to see if it was blood, however, since the words are flying now “invisible to the naked eye” to say there was a blood smear without a field test is complete BS.
Depending upon the sample, and I can bet you Mexico would pay for this, a proper DNA test could take 24 hours.
If Mexico has the investigative burden, I question how Sigi had jurisdiction on his own to do that in the first place, if he did. You can’t just farm out evidence in a criminal investigation with no controls…
The “sample” is a red herring, imo, because every reasonable person saw what the Sheriff apparently did not.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I guess the reason why I personally am such a skeptic about this blood stain on the vest is because it doesn’t get ‘senior me’ at least from point A to point B.. How does one connect the dots from the ‘stain of blood on this vest’ to whatever happened to David out on that lake ? I realize that the lab can type the blood but can the lab tell me was it from a cut on a finger or a head wound ? And what was the chain of custody on this vest before it went to this lab ? I’m sorry but I guess I would feel much differently if they had said they found tremendous amounts of blood on the vest or in Tiffany’s jet ski..
Eloise, Thanks for the chuckle and I do believe your right- I just spent alot of time rereading Blink’s other articles and all the comments – So yeah- I do believe I had somebody else in mind- someone who in the beginning went from blog to blog correcting oversights…
Its funny how the mind works sometimes against our typing skills huh?
AmyS- It sure does seem like David and Tiffany were determined to go to that church Tom Tancreado actually called them missionaries….
Makes me wonder why the urgency in making this trip despite problems with David’s jetski despite no tags on their trailer. Despite all the warnings and knowledge of potential dangers- despite being pulled over by LE- despite David telling the police that he had just moved to Texas inorder to get away from all the ____ in Mexico
Despite- his family’s concerns- They went knowingly 5 MILES into Mexico to sight see and take pictures of a church…. 5 miles to and back 5 MILES back that Tiffany had to race at top speeds to get away from the killers- whose boats went at least 20 miles lower speeds than her jet ski-
@Mom3.0 says:
October 9, 2010 at 4:00 pm
oops sorry Kari- I don’t why I suddenly started calling you Terri midway- That was an oversight on my part and I apologize Kari.
****************************
I can understand the slip…if you know what i mean! And wasn’t it creepy to see that TH’s husband ALSO drives a big white truck, similar to …well, you know who.
@ Rhoni says:
October 9, 2010 at 4:08 pm
As far as that truck stop goes how do we know that was David’s voice heard on that tape ?
Audio is grainy & has anyone heard David’s voice before for comparison ?
Couple in the cab of the truck were never told to ‘exit the vehicle & step away from the vehicle’ so were never on camera to verify if that was DH & TYH in the truck..
Can’t see the plates on the truck to run them to actually know its DH’s truck.. At least I cannot see them..
The reason I have so many questions on this is because one of the pundits on TV Friday remarked that they were surprised that Tiffany never mentioned being stopped by LE that day since that would add credibility to her story.. Well perhaps, just perhaps the reason why she never mentioned it was because she wasn’t there or it never happened.. MOO
I’m impressed though 3 troopers to stop one vehicle moving slowly in traffic during the daylight hours.. There must be a big budget in that department I’m moving to that state..
The Peter Hyatt Show, 10/10/2010, 6:00 PM – 30 min (EST) 30 min.
Statement Analysis introduced with special guest, Dr. Lillian Glass.
We will cover the Mexico Murder case of David Hartley in which widow, Tiffany Hartley’s statements will be analyzed for deception and Dr. Glass will report on her findings of Tiffany Hartley’s body language.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/peter-hyatt/2010/10/10/the-peter-hyatt-show-2
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/10/blog-talk-radio-with-dr-lillian-glass.html
Please join us at 6PM EST for the discussion. So many of you have posted clear commentary and analysis on these cases, and the deceptive indicators of the latest case, Tiffany Hartley, have been seen by most all commenting. We’d love to have you on the show.
Join us on Facebook for more discussion.
On the wall, Peter Hyatt has asked for discussion, knowing that most posters will not be familiar with Statement Analysis, so we are hoping to see how much instinct is involved in discerning lies from truth. It should be interesting.
The Facebook needs Accept Friend before posting on Wall; send through and we’ll accept it so the discussion can go forward!
Thanks to all contributors!
PS: Facebook search?
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/10/tiffany-hartley-911-call-and-witness.html
A couple links for the curious at the bottom of the link above.
SH,
What do you mean by PS: fb search?
Blink
I’ve been checking some of the locals blogs and from what they’re saying is that it’s rare to see someone jet skiing at all on Falcon lake.
The rumor is that it was a drug deal gone bad, and that there’s more to this story than what they’re hearing.
This quote sums up what I’ve been reading on those blogs.. “It’s a drug deal gone bad. Come on, a jet ski on Falcon in late September was back by the church in the Salado river? You do the math.”
I read a couple of posts by a guy whose son is LE. In another post he says that he heard from a reliable source that the couple “got out on the bank” in Mexico.
I can’t verify anything.. these are just the locals talking amongst themselves.
You don’t have to post this. It just gives us something to think about.
@ S.H. says:
October 9, 2010 at 7:00 pm
I’ve turned off my FB acct but I did sign on Peter Hyatt’s site to hopefully listen to the broadcast..
“Translation: They have already told her they ran aerials and sidescan sonar, have clear pics and neither he or the jet ski is there.
B”
I wonder who “they” is? Does this refer to the Mexican searchers south of the border or the US search team on the Texas side?
It would seem that this Sheriff is rather expressive when it comes to border issues..
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/the_search_continues_for_the.php#more
And then there’s Tiffany to the same publication..
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/wife_of_lake_pirates_victim_we_need_to_take_back_t.php
It hasn’t taken for witty comments!
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/10/statement-analysis-of-tiffany-hartley.html
Blaze said…
The emphasis is on getting ” A body” by authorities. “A” body.
I’m sure the cartel have plenty of bodies over there…just give us one?
To want ANY body would mean they know she just wants to show proof of death. Insurance? They just want this case over…like yesterday.
The wife said on a news clip that she wants them to search for him on land .. as if the killers would rather his body be on land than sink it in the river..
David may not be dead. The blood was probably planted. Now to collect the insurance..have paid interviews…generate donations..etc..
The wrinkle in the plan…maybe being stopped by a coast guard?
Friday, 08 October, 2010
Eloise says:
October 9, 2010 at 7:23 pm
SH,
What do you mean by PS: fb search?
Eloise,
Sorry, forgive me, I didn’t include PH link to FB.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Hyatt/100000914488359
29.nana2 says:
October 9, 2010 at 6:51 pm
“As far as that truck stop goes how do we know that was David’s voice heard on that tape ?
Audio is grainy & has anyone heard David’s voice before for comparison ?
Couple in the cab of the truck were never told to ‘exit the vehicle & step away from the vehicle’ so were never on camera to verify if that was DH & TYH in the truck..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Nana: I think the takeaway message here is that LE is likely trying to reconstruct the couple’s last few hours/days. I also believe it is reasonable to assume that TXDPS verified the identity of the driver as David Hartley through an eyewitness (the officer) and Hartley’s Colorado license photo.
IMHO, it is likely that more than one DPS trooper vehicle was involved in that stop, hence three officers on scene.
If my husband has just suffered this horrific trauma leading to his demise, I would certainly be in trauma myself and would not be on all the news media circuits non stop, talking about it. I’m just saying that has me somewhere curious.
Just to follow up from my first comment that I found this story suspect. I listened to Ms. Hartley’s description of the attack yet again. It defies the laws of physics. She says she looked back and saw her husband fly over the FRONT of the jetski, yet when she describes flipping him over she points to her forehead and says he was shot in the head. First of all, what kind of force, and this guy by all accounts was HEAVY, does this guy get thrown over the front of the vehicle?? He would have had to be hit by a tremendous force much strong than a bullet. If he was thrown forward he would not have a bullet hole in his forehead. Perhaps Ms. Hartley should apply for a job with the Warren Commission, she’s their kind of witness.
Secondly let’s say she does have his blood on her vest. What does that prove? That his blood is on her vest. The whole thing could be a setup between the two of them, he would have easily donated blood for that hoping for a big media and lawsuit payoff in the end.
The gum smacking grief…….hmmm…..where have we seen THAT before?? Oh yeah, shades of Darlie Routier, only thing missing was the silly string.
And to our illustrious Gov. Perry, and I am from Texas so I can say this with conviction, thanks for grandstanding and thinking you are going to ride on the coattails of this crime back into the governor’s mansion. Oh wait, the mansion burned down and you have been living in a $10,000 a month rental spread in the Austin hills for 3 years courtesy of the taxpayers of Texas. It was arson, unsolved as of yet. He said he needs all of that room for his “security detail”. Cause you know those pirates might chase him all the way up to Austin.
Gov. Perry, go back to your Bilderberg convention friends and leave Texas alone….please….go away. We have suffered enough. You haven’t done one thing to make our borders safe, in fact, hey werent YOU the one who wanted that superhighway from Mexico to Canada???
This is a man that tried to issue by executive order a law ordering all 6th grade girls in Texas to be vaccinated for the HPV virus. Folks I am NOT making this up, google it. Oh, who makes the vaccine? Of course Merck laboratories, one of his biggest campaign contributors.
Come to think of it Perry, you and Hartley would make a great team, both scam artists trying to disguise yourselves as decent law abiding citizens.
The citizenry remains unfooled!!!
@ GraceintheHills says:
October 9, 2010 at 8:13 pm
Hmmm three troopers to stop one vehicle during the daylight hours for an expired tag that is not even visible on the truck ? It wasn’t a chase according to the video it was a real slow drive..
I can understand wanting to reconstruct the time but I personally would have felt better seeing the two occupants on that video..
Also odd as I said TH never mentioned the stop to any interviewer & most people would remember being stopped by LE & she appears to have vivid recall of everything else.. Just saying..
I live on a lake extremely similar to Falcon Lake. Look on a map, and figure it out, it’s not hard.
I really detest sounding like Sarah Palin on this one, but Mexico is just 2 miles from my back porch—I can see it as I type.
Because of where I live, I have many friends, spouses of my colleagues, and neighbors who work in Law Enforcement. Here’s what I know…
The Border Patrol is only mildly involved in this case. That’s unusual since anything on the lake is either Park Service or Border Patrol. In our country, the sheriff’s department really doesn’t do much of anything on the lake except for monitor the roads around the lake. Sheriffs have little/no jurisdiction on Federal property, and Falcon Lake is Federal Property.
If a US citizen was shot on the lake, that would involve the BP, but, interestingly the BP is not only not involved, they’re not monitoring other lakes.
DEA and ATF are involved in this case—in a big way since I know of several agents who have been dispatched to Falcon.
Oh, and Blink, the Border Patrol has the exact same equipment for finding bodies in water as the Coast Guard. My son is in the Coast Guard and was thrilled that some of his “buddies” got to come near his home to train the Border Patrol to use the equipment. But, as I stated earlier, curiously, the BP isn’t doing much with this case.
It just gets curiouser and curiouser.
I have a bit of experience in ATF issues, there is no doubt in my mind they were “dispatched” the second we had some of our Political office holders crying border. They will not confirm involvement as you know, but citizens should be a tad more at ease with this information.
They have some of the best agents in the world, and hands down, they have more “owning power” of any investigation not directly involving the President.
B
Check this out. Regardless of what they say here, where’s a body, where’s a jetski, and where’s the proof these guys were involved? Also where’s the forensic proof Tiffany was in the water with a dead man? Is there a political motive here? MOO
http://abcnews.go.com/US/mexican-pirate-attack-suspects-identified/story?id=11842316&page=2
PackLeader5, thanks for posting your insights and drawing out some more important points from Blink- much appreciated.
ChiaPet517, thank you for posting that article- I agree just because they are supposed members of this gang and just because they are suspects does that mean that they have caught them red-handed? I am not sure what to think, not to be cynical, but Tiffany and her husband lived in Mexico for nearly 3 years- whose to say that Tiffany is still not involved in a plot to do aawy with her husband and these two were involved? Stranger crimes have happened.
Until I hear all the evidence, I will refrain from jumping on the Oh thank goodness they have suspects band wagon…
What I won’t refrain from is commenting on the horrible way the media has portrayed this story- using such strong adjectives that clearly IMO don’t fit inorder to describe Tiffany’s ‘agony’ on the 911 calls and her ‘horror’ at being to weak to lift her husband’s body ect ect-
Please spare me – I also find it abhorrent the way politicians are globbing on to this story and turning it into something that it clearly IS NOT. I understand David’s family wanting to make a difference and trying to get something done in the name of their son/brother, but Border issues and safety are not David’s causes- He was IN Mexico- Politicians should not glob on to their grief IMO.
Like I wrote before, if Tiffany’s innocence is proven, she will be used again and again to show just how strange/guilty innocent people can act in times of stress and still be innocent. JMO
Supposedly there were three boats involved – with multiple people in each boat.
Also, please understand that Mexico is under HUGE pressure to come up with something -anything.
Which leads me to be suspicious about the two ‘suspects’.
I also just read that six people were killed in a gun battle in the search area…so the story sure better damn well be true, because now people are dying because of it.
http://www.valleycentral.com/news/photos.aspx?id=523516
Yes, thanks Packleader5-for your post and insight. I wonder what the chain of command/SOP is if a US citizen comes off the water as in this case after an alleged murder… would/should the local Zapata Sheriff instantly call Border patrol or Coast Guard or politicians?
Other than that, after listening/seeing the dash cam today, I felt “en stor smula av medkänsla” and also some sadness hearing his nice voice, and being so friendly to the officers. He just sounded like a really nice man, kinda like my own brother…I felt really bad hearing what is probably the last that his own sister/family will hear of his voice. That is just too painful for words, imo.
Yet, I have a number of questions:
Why does she, during interviews, at times refer to him in present tense, and sometimes in past tense? That really bugs me. Even nearly a week after his “death” she made some statements such as, for example:
“David loves the history. That’s what he loves and that’s why we were there that day”
“we’re not people who, you know, blend in. We stand out. We don’t blend in.”
“[Reporter: What do you think the motive was?]… Who knows? WE HAVE no idea. Most likely they just wanted money which WE DON”T carry with us”
“My husband loves history… and loves…it doesn’t matter what, if it’s US or Mexico. He just loves the history.”
And there a number of other instances of such. I wonder if this is normal behavior for someone who has just lost someone and confused about present and past -or if saying past tense is instinctual when someone is, as she says she knows, deceased. Or if interchanging the present and past is normal… you know……?
This case sort of reminds me of another, I can’t remember the name of the guy, but he faked his own death in Mexico by staging an auto accident and threw in his military (or some other metal) ID tag into the wreckage to prove it was his ashes in it. His gf/wife back in the States aided in his plan from where she was. When he was eventually found out, he informed that he transported a bicycle in the trunk of the car, drove to the pre-determined accident scene, set the car up to crash and rode away on the bicycle to his hideout. He was in trouble in the US for an investment fraud. He faked his death to escape prosecution and to live on all the money he scammed out of his elderly clients.
Anyway, that case naturally made me curious if the dash-cam video of the Zapata County cop car showed any other contents of the bed of the truck or cab. They could have planted a bike somewhere around the lake, and then they both set off on their jet-skis. Would it be possible to sink a jetski just by riding out in the middle of a lake and do something right there to it? Tiffany could’ve then drove him on her ski to the shore location of the bike and drop him off and he rides off into the Mexican horizon.
Would a dive search be necessary to find a jetski sunk at the bottom of that lake or is that something they could’ve ruled out already by the air/sonar thingie? I don’t know much about that stuff.
If this is not a death-faking scenario, then I suspect a hired hitman to ambush him on the lake as they took their “adventure”.
Those two scenarios are more plausible in my mind than any of the load she is trying to sell.
I keep hearing that poor Tiffany is being re-victimized. Well, I bet it pales in comparison to being shot in the head! Or say, to be shot in the head and when your wife doesn’t even know if you’re fully dead or not, she turns her back to you and gets the hell out of there.
Maybe the monetary donations she is requesting from the public will be of comfort to her during this time. That is, if the money from the image fees from the many television shows she is appearing on isn’t enough.