David Hartley Gunned Down On Jet Ski In Mexico : Tiffany Young-Hartley Facing Scrutiny
According to his wife, Tiffany Young-Hartley, who called 911, David Hartley, 30, was gunned down by Mexican pirates while the couple ventured across the Falcon Resovior lakes US border to take pictures of the “Mexican Atlantis” or Old Guerreo.
Hartley says her husband was shot in the head and as a result “flew” off his jet ski while the couple was returning from the landmark on the Mexican side of the lake, after taking pictures. She goes on to say she became aware of 3 different boats chasing down the couple only after she saw bullets hitting the water next to her. As she turned around to see where they were coming from, she claims she witnessed her husbands murder.
David was driving a new Sea Doo RXT ski that can climb from 0–30MPH in 1.7 seconds and is capable of top-end speeds of over 60 MPH. Blinkoncrime.com has not been able to confirm which model Ms. Hartley was driving. The couple had been on at least one earlier jet ski jaunt while still in Mexico, but was cut short due to a mishap with David’s craft on June 20th.
According to his wife, David was face-down in the water, wearing a life vest, after he was shot.
Despite the horror of what she had just witnessed and astonishingly avoiding injury to her or her watercraft, she circled back around, jumped off her jet ski, and turned her 250 lb. husband upright to observe the gunshot wound to his forehead. You read that correctly, according to Tiffany Hartley, while being chased from behind, David was shot from the front. Hartley maintains this is when she attempted to load him onto her jet ski, and also when two of the three boats were now positioned in front of her.
One of the alleged pirate boats from the front approached her within 10 ft. While she stared down the barrell of his gun, she was holding onto her husband with one hand, her ski with the other asking not to be shot. Apparently through some sort of Mexican telepathy or nautical sign language, the men who just ambushed the couple and murdered her husband in cold blood, made a decision to let her go and retreated IN FRONT OF HER.
Hartley claims she cannot identify any of the men, that they never said a word to her nor could she hear anything they may have said to each other, but believes the motive for the attack to be robbery or to kidnap her. It is not clear how Tiffany arrived at this conclusion as they never made an attempt to stop them or ask them for their money, she was off her $13,000 Sea doo they could have easily taken, and they let her go.
It was at this time that Hartley finally did hear something. She says she heard the voice of God tell her to leave David, save herself and get to safety. However, his instruction must have been non-specific because she proceeded to mount her ski in deep water, start it back up, and drive directly toward and then past the very band of gun weilding murderous cartel who minutes ago gunned down her highschool sweetheart and spouse of 8 years. (Editors note: I cannot imagine the nerve it takes to again have your back to the same crew who, unprovoked, sprayed the lake with bullets behind you while you were fleeing for your life).
While Tiffany admits the couple was aware of recent pirate activity in the area they learned about while David researched the location, she claims they had not heard of anymore incidents on Falcon Lake, which borders both Texas and Mexico, “in a while.”
The Hartley’s, who had recently been on a few tropical vacations, were in the process of relocating to Colorado next week from Reynosa, Mexico and McAllen Texas, where they had lived for only a few months, following David’s transfer request to Calfrac well services.
According to recent Facebook postings, although the couple could not agree on furniture tastes, they recently purchased a house full of it just after a luxury cruise and visit to a seminar for those experiencing financial difficulty.
I would love to be able to do no analysis and regergetate this story as reported by main stream media whereby not one reporter asks the obvious question:
After several known incidents of piracy in that location over the last months, why would the “pirates” suddenly go on a murderous rampage in lieu of attempting to rob a couple on jet skis that could outrun them on sight?
Not gonna happen. I have heard umpteen versions of Ms. Hartley’s version of events leading to the random execution of her husband.
None pass the smell test. However, just today, Zapata County Sheriff “Sigi” Gonzalez, Jr says his investigation, now aided by a witness who is a long standing member of the Zapata community, exonerates Mrs. Hartley of any wrongdoing.
Gonzalez completely rules out foul play on the part of Mrs. Hartley.
“A local witness saw Tiffany Hartley escaping on her jet-ski to the Texas side of the lake,” he said. “She came in at high speed and was being pursued by armed men in a Mexican fishing boat that that the witness clearly observed.”
Gonzalez said the witness was a long-standing member of the Zapata community who was well known to him and regarded as highly credible.
“The testimony of this witness dispels any idea Mrs. Hartley was involved in any wrongdoing regarding the murder of her husband,” he said firmly. “She called in a 911 phone call to our office at around 2:20 p.m. on the day of the incident, immediately after she got to shore, and her statements to my office confirm what the local witness observed.”
Unfortunately, the witness account does not match Tiffany Hartley’s own version of events. At no time has she ever said that she was again chased by the “pirates”, in fact, she claims she left them behind after driving “through” them.
Hartley references recent pirate activity, which is almost verbatim what she says happened to her and David, with the exception of the actual piracy:
On April 30, five people in two different boats were fishing on Falcon Lake and went to the Old Guerrero area, where they were taking photos of the old church. While they were there, a boat with four heavily tattooed men approached the two boats quickly. The men identified themselves as “Federales,” but they were not wearing uniforms. The men boarded the boats, demanded cash and asked “where are the drugs?” The fishermen told the men that they had no drugs and were just fishing and taking photos. They ended up giving the men $200 cash and left the area. The pirates followed the two boats, but the U.S. boats were able to outrun them and the men stopped following once the two boats entered U.S. waters.
In every recorded incident since April, the heavily tattoed pirates posing as “Federales” without uniforms, came upon anchored fishing boats, boarded them, robbed the fisherman at gunpoint of any personal cash, searched for drugs left without any violence. In the Hartley family interview on the Today show, Tiffany states that after David was hit, she circled around, jumped off her jetski, swam over to her husband and because he was “face down in the water” she had to turn him over where she discovered he was shot in the head.
It would seem I am not alone in my quagmire. Mexican Investigators, who hold jurisdiction have already begun to question Ms. Hartley’s story.
Marco Antonio Guerrero Carrizales, the district attorney for the Miguel Aleman Province adjoining Falcon Lake on the Mexican side, has questioned whether Tiffany Hartley was involved in foul play.
Early this morning, Sheriff Sigi Gonzalez announced the Mexican Authorities will be searching the area where David Hartley was murdered, and have committed to “not leaving” until they find him. Tiffany Hartley, accompanied by her parents, but without David’s, filed a missing person report at the Mexican Consulate last night as a matter of procedure to “get the ball rolling”.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates
Madeline Tanner, contributing editor blinkoncrime.com
Images by Klaasend
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Blink Kudos to your Momma- We mother’s can ALWAYS see our way through Crocodile Tears-
Thanks for doing your job- now if only some others would follow your Mom’s advice.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39601707#39601707
1) Have you been formally contacted that 2 suspects have been identified? TYH: “We have gotten the word that they have been identified, um as far as we know nobody is in custody or anything, so hopefully it will be a good lead…and they can lead us to where David is”
Humor me Blinkers: Why would she need to be informed formally that there are 2 suspects? Would she have not been an integral part of locating these two, even those she claims she has NO IDEA what any of them look like. -Would she have not been asked thoroughly about what they were wearing, tattoos, any identifying anything? Apparently not. What her response sounded like to me is what as if she was not intimately involved…something like I would say if Blink asked me “Did you hear they named 2 suspects?” “Yeah, I heard they did, but they weren’t arrested yet.”
And it seems to me that there is some political/ LE turf pressure to nail someone, so they just decided to pull 2 Mexican criminals out of a hat and are trying to serve them up on a platter as being the murderers of Davie Hartley…also, cuz as Blink says -if these guys are the hardened wanted robbers and murderers responsible, then Tiffany Hartley would not have arrived back on US shore unscathed, on her expensive jet ski to tell her, “story.”
From many news sources I’ve read that Falcon Lake is a hotspot for the “Los Zetas” cartel, so in researching the cartel, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas proved to be a very interesting read.. specifically: “The group has been linked to monitoring and kidnapping of journalists, and the murder of rival cartel members and their families. Los Zetas cartel has been known to hire US gangs such as the Texas Syndicate and MS-13 to carry out contract killings.” and “Los Zetas are involved in myriad criminal activities. They have branched out into kidnapping, murder-for-hire, extortion, money-laundering, human smuggling, and oil siphoning”
Interesting to me for two reasons, 1. this shows they are linked to more kidnappings in general and killings of rival gang members or mexican officials than killings of random people. 2. they have branched out to murder-for-hire … interesting
@ Rhoni. and others of course. Regarding the present/past slips. Check out this interview from today -10 days after he allegedly was murdered in front of her.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39601707#39601707
He asked if it’s been hard to have people question her story, “how are you holding up? She SMILED as she said “um, it’s hard, um…” Then went on do say, “IF they knew David and I, if they knew our relationship, and, you know, knew us personally, then they wouldn’t doubt us one bit.”
Really? “us?” They would not doubt “US”???? Wow. Does anyone else think that is a fascinating statement?
Little bit of Reynosa notoriety from 11/08
MEXICO CITY — The Mexican army on Friday announced that it has made the largest seizure of drug-cartel weapons in Mexico’s history.
The cache of 540 rifles, 165 grenades, 500,000 rounds of ammunition and 14 sticks of TNT were seized on Thursday at a house in the city of Reynosa, across the border from McAllen, Texas, Mexican Assistant Attorney General Marisela Morales said.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2008-11-08-
Ted says:
October 10, 2010 at 4:08 pm
I don’t know my insurance polices well, but there is also a chance, even if a body is found, that the life insurance policy won’t cover David’s death. He allegedly died in Mexico, and it wasn’t on the job. They could waive the claim because of the circumstances. The insurance company could be sticklers that a state court declaring David is legally dead, is invalid because it doesn’t have jurisdiction in where he allegedly died, across the border.
*****
Keep in mind David and his wife still lived in Mexico. I would think there may have been more of a problem if he died in the US. I am not sure how that works but I would think a policy that has covered him for the last 3 years covered him in Mexico.
to Mermaid 14 and MommaBlink- You are so right about the Memorial service happening so quickly-excuse the pun but fishy. Regardless of how this turns out-someone should yank Tiffany off the tv/media tour.
She is making things worse for herself and needs help. I am shocked Gloria Allred has not taken the case yet!
Blink, I was looking around and came across this blog. Obviously I cannot vouch for her, but I thought it might pose as informative down the road.
http://borderviolenceanalysis.typepad.com/mexicos_drug_war/current_affairs/
I’ve done some research on gun smuggling and the googling I did indicates that most of the smuggling is into Mexico, not the other way around. My research also shows that an AK-47 is an automatic weapon and needs to be changed to be a semi-automatic to be legal in most states. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of this could help me out. My question is how much sense would it make for this to be a gun smuggling endeavour? I’m thinking maybe not much?
@ Mermaid14 says:
October 10, 2010 at 4:15 pm
If Tiffany did any food shopping while they lived those 3 years in Mexico I sure hope she knew & understood the language..
I don’t know if this was submitted yet but its the interview with Tiffany and Geraldo last night at Fox..
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4368003/tiffany-hartleys-last-moments-with-husband/
http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/does-tiffany-hartley%e2%80%99s-body-language-facial-and-vocal-tells-indicate-deception/
Does Tiffany Hartley’s Body Language, Facial and Vocal Tells Indicate Deception?
**********************************************************************
I listened to P.H. (Blog radio) and Holy Toledo! P.H. thinks either
TH did it, or a boyfriend, his opinion. I believe his gave a third
guess, I’m sorry, it bounced off of me. I am still surprised he weighed in on TH, BF.
Perhaps, you can relisten to his broadcast, later, here is the link, for those who missed it. I do not know for certain if his broadcast
is available to relisten or not.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/peter-hyatt/2010/10/10/the-peter-hyatt-show-2
**********************************************************************
Steph Watts show is on at 8:00 est tonight.
“Is Tiffany Hartly telling the truth”?
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/10/11/watts-up-with-this
This article has a bit more about the two brothers who have been identified as suspects:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7240824.html
I can’t help but notice the difference between the way the media is handling this case with a husband gone missing as opposed to cases like Scott and Drew Peterson, husband of Susan Powell, etc. They rarely give the husbands the benefit of the doubt, but almost immediately sympathized and helped to support the scenario in the Hartley case, and continue to do so.
It seems that not everyone is jumping on the lets use this tragedy to further our agenda’s -nor is everyone believing Tiffany’s story and not asking questions, simply to prove their own points in regards to border issues ect.
Michelle Malkin has been very vocal regarding border issues ect. Yet she is asking questions and saying foul- she too is not sure if Tiffany’s account/S are to be believed.
I commend Ms Malkin for stepping back and looking at some of the discrepancies, despite the fact that it would quite easy for her to except the story as the truth, and use it as a talking point.
http://michellemalkin.com/2010/10/09/inconvenient-questions-about-the-mexico-lake-shooting-story/
Thanks for posting that Mom 3.0.
Lily posted it on the Ky thread accidentally and asked me to move it and I forgot
I totally agree. The second I saw MM question her story instead of fist pumping “I told you so”, I took it as further confirmation. I will say, if this turns out as we suspect, she is going to skewer the politicians that did not use the same reserve.
Those would be the ones who have gone silent on the issue.
B
Tiffany and David speak Tex-Mex, a dialect of spanish. It works on both sides of the border. Real Spanish is quite different.
Did she shoot David or did she hire someone to do it?
She will continue to change her story as more real facts become known.
The political types are having a field day with this story.
Blink, Did you tell mom that it doesn’t require a body to have a memorial service?
Lol, she knew, of course, thus the “get to work”, her way of saying it had reached hinky status alone for her on that issue.
B
@LoriD, you mentioned something to the effect LE knows who did this and HE has been under investigation. Also someone mentioned two suspects being arrested?? People, Tiffany H. said there were THREE gunboats chasing them. Which means for her story to be true there has to be at least 3 people in on this. Then she said one of the boats stopped near her and there were gunS as in more than one pointed at her head which means there had to be at least 4 people involved.
The numbers arent’ adding up and neither is the story.
You know, I have just spent some time watching the various news videos w/ TYH. And I have a new conclusion. I think, alot of the interviewers are baiting her. I dont necessarily think they are as stupid as we all think they are. Just food for thought.
I agree they are now, yes.
I had a conversation with a media personality the other day who said, once I knew she was lying I would refuse to interview her again.
My response was, your kidding right, let her talk until she is blue in the face, it is how she will slip up.
If she keeps this up, I am going to sick Padilla on her, lol.
B
It will be interesting to see just where his jet ski ends up, which side of the border I mean. I think that if she had someone do this then she may have given this person enough time to race back to where he was parked waiting with a trailer and could drive anywhere in the US undetected and just drop the little water craft off or destroy it. If the person stayed on the Mexico side he could’ve just given the jet ski to anyone. There would be many, many takers! If that person is American he has to come back or is back by now. We need to start watching who she’s in contact with now. Weren’t the tags on the jet ski expired or something?
The story below has some interesting similarities to TYH’s story. This crime also involves pirates on a lake, and the pirates shoot first, then rob the guys and let them go.
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2009/11/19/prominent-portland-developer-shot-in-mexico/
What is wrong with this picture???
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/1006/Falcon-Lake-pirate-shooting-where-s-missing-boater-David-Hartley
Don’t tell me this is going to be another one where the wife is involved with another man and he’s the one who offed her husband…MOO
A little info/background on your friend ‘Sigi”.
~snip~
The shaping of what Governor Rick Perry calls the “Texas model of border security” began in the spring of 2005, when Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo “Sigi” Gonzalez, Jr. put out a call to his fellow Texas-border sheriffs to form the Texas Border Sheriff’s Coalition, which includes twenty border counties. Over the past five years, the sheriffs of the TBSC have rallied law enforcement to secure the border, played a prominent role in the state’s “high-intensity border surges,” and launched Border Watch, a remote-surveillance program carried out by volunteer “virtual deputies.” In the process, the sheriffs have become the public face of Texas’s go-it-alone commitment to border security. We are the “can-do state,” Gonzalez says.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5f1kJ0R9kZsJ:www.theinvestigativefund.org/investigations/immigrationandlabor/1401/at_war_in_texas/+Zapata+County+Sheriff+%E2%80%9CSigi%E2%80%9D+Gonzalez,+Jr&cd=81&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Well, I probably could have bet my next paycheck that this would be the next news story out of that area:
http://www.themonitor.com/news/mexican-43489-officials-reports.html
Geez…
Right. Responsibility in journalism people, it matters.
B
Yup, she is in the wrong nation’s media if her purpose is to get his body back, which she believes is on land on their side.
She’s made statements that it is SO important to her to get his body back so she can “MOVE ON with her life”, but it didn’t seem to keep her from “moving on” by having an expedient memorial service.
She doesn’t even hold onto a slim hope he might still be alive. So, IMO, it’s either because she knows for a damn fact he is dead – because she had him killed. Or she knows for a damn fact he is dead – because that was their plan to make the world believe.
If you take just her non-mention he was dead, then on (some program, forgive me they are all running together) she states he was not concious, at no time has she ever said he was dead, however she is adamant he is.
This completely belies the normal grief patterns a person would have. It would be the complete opposite, or the unwillingness to believe your loved one was alive.
Have I mentioned I do not believe Tiffany Young-Hartley and let me re-state I am shocked his parents do.
B
One way that *I* can explain why the witness account doesn’t necessarily clear her…
…She very well could have just witnessed her husband’s death – by the person she got to kill him. She’d still likely be traumatized and crying having just seen that.
I’m just throwing theories out, not necessarily that I concretely believe one or the other. That is, aside from my concrete belief that she is at least being untruthful.
From the Today show this morning..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39612179#39612179
If her story is true, then why is she not in hiding? She is a witness to a serious crime of a drug cartel or gang and she is out in the public domain pushing her story. The drug cartels are made up of violent and ruthless people whose tentacles are far reaching. She is NOT necessarily safe just because she is back on U.S. soil. I can tell you that I would be running scared for my life – if I was lucky to have escaped with my life in the first place. Work with the authorities behind the scenes – yes. But to put herself “out there” is just plain stupid. JMO
I haven’t seen it mentioned or might have missed it but could drugs be involved here? I know they don’t look like your typical drug dealers but back and forth over that border. Could this have been a drug deal that went south?
I remember sitting in the Straw Market in Freeport, Bahamas and watching what I thought a drug deal go down in one of the off places. A young beautiful, college looking couple exchanging something with a black bahamian man in an allyway.
You would have never suspected this young couple of anything. That always stayed with me and for some reason I am wondering?
@ rhoni says:
October 10, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Why is Tiffany so hesitant on taking a lie detector test?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don’t think Tiffany ever expected to be asked to take a lie detector test.. I don’t think she ever expected anyone to doubt her story..
I’m also wondering if when TH made it back to shore to that ‘witness’ that called 911 if anyone suggested that she be checked by medical personnel to make sure she didn’t suffer any physical issues during that alleged shooting ? I would have thought that would be a normal course of events given the event but it hasn’t been mentioned that I know of..
This is a good ABC interview, in my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_x1-wcF5Yc&feature=fvwk
Tiffany must have lived in a Cave for three years. This poor girl, has no earthly idea, how investigative reporters, will be all over “her story”.
I hope David is found, and buried properly.
Although Tiffany’s story is difficult to believe. I suspect her husband was killed by bad guys, but not on the water.
We have heard they they were going to take pictures of the old church. No-one in his right mind would take an expensive D-SLR with telephoto lens out on a jet ski. Even a high end compact camera would not survive the bumps and jolts of a jet ski unless very well packed. Most likely, they would use a waterproof “tough” camera or inexpensive camera with waterproof housing (the housing can be purchased for about $20). As a result, in order to get a good picture of the church, they would have to get fairly close to the structure. I suspect that they beached their jet-skis and walked out on land. Either they interacted with the Mexican bad-hombres, or the bad-guys saw them taking pictures while the bad guys were conducting business. The husband was shot (on Mexican land), the wife ran away and escaped on her jet ski. If she made it to her jet ski, which would be easy if she straggled behind while her husband ventured onto land, she would have a definite head-start on the bad guys who would have to run to their boats to pursue her.
This theory would explain the lack of a body and jet-ski in the lake.
The weak link in this theory, however, is Why would she lie about it?
She was more focused on THE GUN and hoping they wouldn’t shoot her (below) . . . wouldn’t 3 boatloads of pirates have GUNS? What is it about THE GUN that keeps niggling my BS detector? This is going to end up being something about a “particular” gun when all of this is said and done in my opinion.
The rest of this transcript is interesting too – she must not have yet heard the media reporting that Mexico is now saying they do NOT have suspects in mind even though that was reported in several media publications yesterday – including The McAllen Monitor. So I’m assuming she did this CBS interview before the one posted above by nana2 on NBC.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/11/earlyshow/main6946795.shtml
“She told “Early Show” co-anchor Harry Smith, “I couldn’t tell you. I don’t remember, really, being able to describe or even kind of get an idea of what these guys looked like. Possibly, maybe it would come back to me, but I was more focused on the gun and hoping, you know, they wouldn’t shoot me.”
I agree Tiffany uses the terms ‘us’ & ‘we’ an awful lot. Who is “we” exactly?
10.Emmy says:
October 10, 2010 at 9:59 pm
The story below has some interesting similarities to TYH’s story. This crime also involves pirates on a lake, and the pirates shoot first, then rob the guys and let them go.
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2009/11/19/prominent-portland-developer-shot-in-mexico/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Emmy: This is why my husband and I have stopped vacationing in Mexico. Shootings and robberies are quite common down there, especially in the border towns. This is exactly why so many of my neighbors who fish Falcon lake just don’t know what to think about this incident. Some are suspicious of her story, some think the Hartleys may have been running drugs, and quite a few others believe her story. Personally, I don’t know what to think right now.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
20.nana2 says:
October 11, 2010 at 9:45 am
I’m also wondering if when TH made it back to shore to that ‘witness’ that called 911 if anyone suggested that she be checked by medical personnel to make sure she didn’t suffer any physical issues during that alleged shooting ? I would have thought that would be a normal course of events given the event but it hasn’t been mentioned that I know of..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Nana: The 911 operator said an ambulance was being sent to the scene (at the lakeshore).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
19.Elizabeth says:
October 11, 2010 at 9:40 am
I haven’t seen it mentioned or might have missed it but could drugs be involved here? I know they don’t look like your typical drug dealers but back and forth over that border. Could this have been a drug deal that went south?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Elizabeth, I was on a Texas fisherman’s forum the the other day and they were talking about reports of border drug runners using jet skis to ferry their drugs into Texas on Falcon Lake. Apparently this is common knowledge down there…
I think I said last week that I was on the fence, one leg on she’s telling the truth, the other saying she planned this or killed him or faked his death, etc.
Well, I’ve slipped off that fence and I’m on the side that this is all BS… The quick memorial says it all…not to take away from Kyron, but this child has been missing for over 4 months and his parents HAVE NOT mentioned a memorial service, they’re not until they find him, dead or alive.
I would think the same would’ve applied to this wife who “lost” her husband….I’m surprised she didn’t run to Vegas for a quicker memorial… She is in a hurry to move on for sure… but it’s because she wants to hide the truth.
I don’t think Hartley’s life insurance would cover him in Mexico unless it was work related. Any auto insurer will tell you your auto coverage expires the minute you hit that border. You have to buy another policy to get coverage in a foreign country.
Regarding the political aspect of this, it’s an election year and anything goes. But Perry is completely disingenuous, he was one of the main proponents of the NAFTA superhighway which would have in effect opened the borders all the way from Mexico to Canada.
Regarding Congressman Ted Poe, I have complete respect for this man, they probably called him instead of the other way around. He was for many years a criminal court judge in Harris County Texas, known for making the punishment fit the crime. I loved it when he made rich deadbeat Dads sit in front of the grocery store where all their neighbors shopped wearing a sign that said “I do not pay my child support.” He made a woman who stole gas wear a sandwich sign stating her crime and she had to walk up and down in front of the gas station where she stole the gas for an entire day. That’s my kind of judge!
If Ms. Hartley or both are found to be guilty of foul play, wonder what kind of creative sentence Judge Poe might come up with???
22.lily says:
October 11, 2010 at 10:08 am
“She told “Early Show” co-anchor Harry Smith, “I couldn’t tell you. I don’t remember, really, being able to describe or even kind of get an idea of what these guys looked like. Possibly, maybe it would come back to me, but I was more focused on the gun and hoping, you know, they wouldn’t shoot me.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Lily: I don’t find this part of Tiffany’s story unusual at all. There have been studies that have looked at eyewitness recollection of events. One particular study stands out in my mind. The designer of the study/experiment wanted to demonstrate why victims can be so poor at identifying perps. He put a group of adult students in a classroom and had someone enter the room unexpectedly with a gun. Most of the students were unable to identify the suspect but could describe the gun in amazing detail. This was a very interesting study. It reinforced the common belief that victims generally focus on the weapon itself rather than the perps.
@ lily says:
October 11, 2010 at 10:08 am
re:“She told “Early Show” co-anchor Harry Smith, “I couldn’t tell you. I don’t remember, really, being able to describe or even kind of get an idea of what these guys looked like. Possibly, maybe it would come back to me, but I was more focused on the gun and hoping, you know, they wouldn’t shoot me.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
She can’t describe them until she sees pictures of them, its like she is trying to back into the story.. Its hard to describe something you’ve never seen.. MO
I have to agree with above posters and B. The too quick memorial service says it all to me. Why couldn’t she wait to have a a service with her husband’s body. She is too quick to say she wants to “move on.” If I hear that again, I’ll scream.
Yes, and whats up with the “we” and “us” usage? I haven’t seen her with her own parents?
@Sue,
Re: Why isn’t Tiffany Hartley in hiding…you hit the nail on the head. The one witness to part of the incident which was only her returning to shore with a “boat” following behind her, will ONLY appear in shadow with his voice disguised. Yet this woman, witness to a brutal murder has her mug all over the news media daily??? Doesn’t add up.
35.Mermaid14 says:
October 11, 2010 at 11:06 am
~~snip:
Regarding Congressman Ted Poe, I have complete respect for this man, they probably called him instead of the other way around. He was for many years a criminal court judge in Harris County Texas, known for making the punishment fit the crime. I loved it when he made rich deadbeat Dads sit in front of the grocery store where all their neighbors shopped wearing a sign that said “I do not pay my child support.” He made a woman who stole gas wear a sandwich sign stating her crime and she had to walk up and down in front of the gas station where she stole the gas for an entire day. That’s my kind of judge!
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Completely agree with you on Poe, Mermaid14. He rocks my socks! I think him more reliable then Gov. Perry when hitting at the source.
orangeparkgirl says:
October 10, 2010 at 5:48 pm
“From many news sources I’ve read that Falcon Lake is a hotspot for the “Los Zetas” cartel, so in researching the cartel, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas proved to be a very i. 2. they have branched out to murder-for-hire … interesting”
Just wanted to follow up on this -
The Zeta’s beginnings were in murder for hire….they were kinda “Murder, Inc”. They started as the “enforcement arm” of the Gulf Cartel.
Since Tiffany and her husband had lived in Reynosa, evidently knew some Spanish,and KNEW there could be problems on the lake, I find it HARD to believe that they would knowingly & illegally cross into Mexico… into possible Zeta territory.
( I love Mexico, live there part time, have for years…and still drive everywhere -EXCEPT now in the border area. Until a year ago, I flew in and out of Juarez. I am adventurous…but not stupid)
Tiffany’s story, which was VERY questionable from the first, now REALLY does not pass my smell test.
35.Mermaid14 says:
October 11, 2010 at 11:06 am
Regarding Congressman Ted Poe, I have complete respect for this man, they probably called him instead of the other way around. He was for many years a criminal court judge in Harris County Texas, known for making the punishment fit the crime. I loved it when he made rich deadbeat Dads sit in front of the grocery store where all their neighbors shopped wearing a sign that said “I do not pay my child support.” He made a woman who stole gas wear a sandwich sign stating her crime and she had to walk up and down in front of the gas station where she stole the gas for an entire day. That’s my kind of judge!
If Ms. Hartley or both are found to be guilty of foul play, wonder what kind of creative sentence Judge Poe might come up with???
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I had a chuckle when I read this, Mermaid. I, too, am familiar with Judge Poe’s (shall we say) interesting sentences. He certainly was quite the little media attention-grabber while on the bench, wasn’t he?
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And, regarding insurance policies one can purchase nowadays, the following is quite the interesting read:
http://www.krgv.com/news/local/story/Kidnapping-Ransom-Insurance-Policies-Up-for-Sale/TyG9EzdlaEyTb6JvIGUaBA.cspx?rss=1652
I thought I had been following this story pretty closely; however, I only now read a reference to Tiffany having held a memorial service for her husband. Is this correct? Has a memorial already been held for the husband she should be hoping is alive out there somewhere? I realize she says she saw a gunshot wound to his head and she believes he is dead but she gave up the hope of them finding a body pretty quickly, didn’t she? Her actions defy logic. I hope the supposed authorities who are investigating this matter show the public some solid evidence soon or this is just a huge waste of taxpayer’s funds!
@Grace – I wasn’t actually referring to Tiffany’s accuracy as far as witness recollection – but more the complete and total lack of any individual recollection. She doesn’t ever say “he” pointed “a” gun or “his” gun at me she said “they” pointed “the” gun at me (how many pirates does it take to point the gun?). She doesn’t describe any of them at all – but if at least one of the boats got within 10 feet of her – or the length of the jet ski as she describes – then she would describe something – anything. The way she describes it – they didn’t say anything to her – just floated up within 10′ of her and silently pointed the gun – at which time she let her mortally wounded/bleeding husband go, scrambled up on her jet ski, started it up and scooted out of there while they shot at her. Does that make any sense at all? (This isn’t a rant at you – I just get worked up thinking about this LOL).
Plus she keeps saying “staring down the barrel of a gun” to excuse her complete and total inability to recall one single detail about 3 boats full of men with guns that they had already had a friendly wave with earlier before her husband was shot? First, what a cliche “staring down the barrel of a gun” is – and secondly – not one single color of shirt, type of gun (keep in mind she and David are gun savvy), not a word spoken to her or within earshot of her? If you’ve lived in Texas any amount of time – you pick up a lot of spanish (tex/mex) – if you lived in Reynosa 2+ years and had to shop locally, eat out locally, get your drycleaning taken care of, etc., you would pick up quite a bit of spanish. You would have to.
44.lily says:
October 11, 2010 at 11:57 am
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I hear ‘ya, Lily. This whole story is more than hinky, IMO, and everyone’s perspective hinges on whether one believes her or not.
The following article mentions that officials are meeting today to “determine the next step” in the investigation. I have no doubt that officials are looking into David and Tiffany’s life leading up to this incident:
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/11/texas.missing.american.seach/
Wife, mother of American who went missing at lake plead for help
By the CNN Wire Staff
October 11, 2010 — Updated 1617 GMT (0017 HKT)
(CNN) — The wife of a U.S. citizen who disappeared late last month in a reported pirate attack renewed her plea for help Monday.
David Michael Hartley went missing September 30. His wife, Tiffany, told authorities her husband was shot and killed during a sightseeing trip on Falcon Lake, which bisects the U.S.-Mexico border in South Texas.
On Monday, Tiffany Hartley, along with David Hartley’s mother, Pam, appeared on several morning talk shows asking for information that will help investigators find those responsible for David’s death and help them find his body.(snip)
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/11/texas.missing.american.seach/
Re Memorial Service, please see my earlier post where I ask What is Wrong With This Picture?? It is from the Christian Science Monitor, gives a complete description of the service held just one week after David’s “murder” in McAllen Tx, complete with photo op of Tiffany straddling her husbands motorcycle and posing at the end of the service. Yes, we all want to hop on our deceased loved one’s bike after we have it brought to the service for a sweet family photo. Nothing says I love you and miss you like that would.
Blink Says:
It is illogical that they have not located him or his ski, I personally do not believe she killed him.
B
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May I ask you what our theory is? Or would you like to keep it to yourself for now. I would love to know. Do you believe it was a lover, or someone she hired? Or do yu think it was someone else?
I can see her plotting with someone else to get this done. A lover, or someone she hired. They could have gotten rid of the jet ski, and the body for her. I dont know where else it could have went?? I dont for one minute believe that the so called pirates let her get away and then leasuirely took their time to load up his body and his jetski to hide it, instead of just leavng it where it was, and giving her time to get help, and them time to be caught in the act of picking up his remains to what? Bury them? (Maybe they would have taken the jetski, but I dont think they would have taken the mans lifeless body with them, why would they?) I would love to hear your personal opinion if you feel inclined to share! Thanks
As the janitor here, my opinions become immediate accusations. Occupational Hazard.
B