Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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@Beejay
Puzzled??? yep, that ’bout says it all!
What I’m getting is this … Ubaldo F & Marie, who share an address with Elsy … are not related to … Ubaldo R or Rudy or Jaimie.
Ubaldo R “could be” an alias for Rudy.
Owner of salon in Oregon City and PO Box in Canby is not Elizabeth Sanchez Estrada and is not in the circle of RS & Associates.
I get whatcha doin’ … I’ve got all the coincidents wrapped up in one ball … and they may just be coincidents.
@Constance
I want to acknowledge that you probably speak for a lot of people … who believe and have from the beginning that TH and only TH is responsible for the disappearance of her step-son.
But, If KyH did not leave Skyline with TH … how did he disappear? Obviously, LE is asking the same question.
Cbickel says:
January 18, 2011 at 5:04 am
Blink do you remember it? One time poster as far as I can tell, never seen it before, haven’t seen it since. Poster said it was RS father and with his, not RS’s, grandaughters that were the “chaperone and two girls”.
~~~
I remember … was just the one time and seemed “out of place” so didn’t copy to a file.
29.enumclawrose says:
January 17, 2011 at 11:14 pm
New Estrada business as of 01-12-11
http://egov.sos.state.or.us/br/pkg_web_name_srch_inq.show_detl?p_be_rsn=1496147&p_srce=BR_INQ&p_print=FALSE
~~~
FTLOG … ESTRADA CONSULTING, INC
Consulting for what????
enumclawrose says: January 18, 2011 at 3:31
At first I thought Dotty could be Kim’s mother, but she and/or Carol have 5 kids, which I think I can account for, but there are only three ggkids, which with Kim’s gang, there would be lots more if Kim were Dotty’s daughter
***
This obit was from 2002….Kim may have only had 3 children then.
Anyone here have a connection to anyone at FRIENDS OF THE MILWAUKIE CENTER, INC. in Milwaukie, OR? If so, IF this is the same lady whose phone is listed in white pages, than Rudy’s next door neighbors are financial contributors to that center. Maybe even more active than that? Same neighbors have contributed to tree causes, thru Grouse Hollow. (Delicate situation with posting neighbor’s name and addy. At white pages listing for Rodolfo, click on “neighbors”. 3 pages come up. Her street number is an odd number, 44 digits higher than Rudy’s. Go to Google Maps; she is cutting grass, while a man, looks like, stands in driveway.)
Link: http://www.whitepages.com
[type in Rodolfo Sanchez in Milwaukie, OR]
Link to Friends newsletter:
http://www.milwaukiecenter.com/dotnetnuke/Portals/0/friendsnews2010.pdf
It’s not illegal to ask people we know if someone they know knows anything about his/her neighbor and his family and other household residents. Just so we’re not harassing folks. That’s my rule anyway.
We have to work and build our connections. It cannot all be done on the internet. And bully for you puzzled; not a bad,bad “boy” at all. It’s all in service of something good, ya know? (And everyone uses bat phones at times these days, don’t we? For privacy or personal safety reasons)
7.puzzled says:
January 18, 2011 at 12:08 pm
Cbickel says:
January 18, 2011 at 5:04 am
Blink do you remember it? One time poster as far as I can tell, never seen it before, haven’t seen it since. Poster said it was RS father and with his, not RS’s, grandaughters that were the “chaperone and two girls”.
~~~
I remember … was just the one time and seemed “out of place” so didn’t copy to a file.
***********************************
Did poster name RS’s father?
Was it in the very beginning, I will go back and look for it
if you all can give me a hint if it was very beginning or middle
etc?
@4.puzzled says:
January 18, 2011 at 12:08 pm
Cbickel says:
January 18, 2011 at 5:04 am
Blink do you remember it? One time poster as far as I can tell, never seen it before, haven’t seen it since. Poster said it was RS father and with his, not RS’s, grandaughters that were the “chaperone and two girls”.
~~~
I remember … was just the one time and seemed “out of place” so didn’t copy to a file.
**********************************************************************
It was me and it was only my opinion which I forgot to say IMO.
Just seemed to fit at the time.
Somone Kyron might trust and know?
The man in the plaid shirt appeared he could be an older grandpa looking figure.
I still have not seen were this person has been identified “the headless lumberjack”
I could have missed it.
So, Ubaldo & Marie may very well be legitimate business owners … just associated with someone who has disappeared with two children … to parts unknown.
RS has always had a landscaping “maintenance” business of some sorts … as Rudy Sanchez … but has multiple “associate” names.
Bro Jaime .. who goes by Estrada, and has no alias .. has had multiple incarnations in business … most recently, as a consultant.
RS is MIA … JE is setting up a new business.
Coincidence that Elsy has two children named Jamie and Ubaldo and are missing … but are not related to RS or the disappearance of KyH?
Ode says: January 17, 2011 at 8:07 pm
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Missing-Kyron-Horman/125336750831264#!/photo.php?fbid=182189515145987&set=a.125436494154623.14645.125336750831264
“Kaine was at the sex trafficking conference in Portland. I think this speaks more than anything as to the direction we are headed. I want to cry. To me this is not quiet, it screams.”
The linked Facebook page contains a statement from Rhonda Williams Hall chastising individuals who inferred that Mr. Horman’s presence at the conference was due to the nature of Kyron’s disappearance:
“Shame on any of you who are using this post as speculation!!!! Kaine was at this event today to extend a helping hand to other families in need while also supporting the new TextNoMore App that is spreading his sons flier across the world!!!!” (posted by Ronda Williams Hall at 9:57 pm Sunday January 17, 2011.
The agenda for the conference contained a couple of interesting items, including a workshop titled “Crossing the Columbian” presented by Clark County Sheriff’s Office, and “Internet Safety” presented by Michelle Sigona Investigative Reporter.
http://nwcat.org/annual-conference-2011/weekend-schedule/
http://nwcat.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Confirmed-Attendee-Packet-20111.pdf
http://nwcat.org/annual-conference-2011/speakers/
http://nwcat.org/annual-conference-2011/workshops/
http://nwcat.eventbrite.com/
Ms. Sigona has covered the Kyron’s disappearance. She appears on MSNBC, CNN-HLN, Fox News, and Inside Edition.
The emcee for the conference was Alexis Del Cid of KOIN news, who has covered Kyron’s disappearance. Ms. Del Cid and reporter Kohr Harlan bylined the story about Tanner Pumala’s statement that the substitute was the first to notice Kyron was missing from school on June 4, 2010. Portland Public Schools has denied any truth to Tanner’s statements.
The article regarding Tanner Pumala’s claim that a substitute was the first to notice Kyron was missing has since been pulled from the KOIN website. However, another article posted on the site links to the deadlinked story. The original article is available from several other websites that contain the original text. That article states in part (excerpted):
Eight-year-old Tanner Pumala says the first person to notice Kyron Horman missing was a substitute teacher who was taking a head count as the second and third grade class was re-assembling after visiting other classrooms for a science fair at Skyline School last Friday.
“And she was like ‘oh no where’s Kyron there’s only five’ and Mrs. Porter was like it’s okay calm down, calm down he’s probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she said alright I’m going to leave and she left, ” says Tanner Pumala.
But, Portland Public School spokesman Matt Shelby said the account can’t be true: “There were no substitutes at the school that day (the day Kyron disappeared),” he said. Shelby thinks Pumala may be confused because all week after the disappearance a subsitute teacher has been at the school to help with the stress of the Horman case.
Tanner is Kyron’s deskmate in their combined second-third grade classroom. Tanner says Kyron was in school for at least an hour Friday morning and that he saw Kyron’s step-mother leave the school without Kyron. FBI agents interviewed Pumala, and Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton visited with Pumala Wednesday afternoon according to Pumala’s grandmother Wendy Fuhrur.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Hormans-Desk-Mate-Says-Substitute-Noticed-Him/TVY3YTREG0SyCP3tb3MkZg.cspx (deadlink)
linked in “Thursday Search Update” http://mobile.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Terri-wants-money-to-move-out-Kyron-Horman/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx?p=30
A later article containing more details from Tanner’s interview with KOIN is also unavailable from the koinlocalt.com website. That article is also available elsewhere. That article states in part (excerpted):
8-year-old Tanner Pumala, a desk mate of Kyron says, “I went downstairs, and that was the last time I saw him and I never seen him after that,” Tanner told KOIN news. Tanner said, the class was regrouping and it was the substitute that noticed Kyron was missing.
“And she was like ‘oh no where’s Kyron there’s only five’ and Mrs. Porter was like it’s okay calm down, calm down he’s probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she said alright I’m going to leave and she left, ” says Tanner Pumala
Tanner said that he noticed that Kyron was not on the school bus when they were going home.
“How he went unnoticed is absolutely just beyond me,” says Tanner’s grandmother Wendy Fuhrer.
“It would have to be that Kyron knew or trusted [sic]. Kids just don’t vanish and I find this heart-wrenching, absolutely heart-wrenching, and the family what they are going through, I can’t even imagine,” said Fuhrer.
Fuhrer said that Tanner told her that he had seen Kyron’s mom leaving the school building and Kyron was not with her when she left.
http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/search-for-missing-kyron-horman-is-now-a-criminal-case
Ms. Del Cid has also covered human trafficking for KOIN TV, including a story about sex trafficking by pimps who are Portland high school students who target — then traffick — high school and junior high school students.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/mediacenter/default.aspx?videoId=13306@koin.dayport.com&navCatId=156
The segment featured Deputy Keith Bickford, director of the Multnomah County Human Trafficking Task Force; and Vice Sgt. Doug Justice and Vice Officer Meghan Burkeen, both of the Portland Police Bureau.
Deputy Bickford stated that the Human Trafficking Task Force was investigating prostitution within five local high schools, involving “hundreds” of local high school students. Sgt. Justice and Officer Burkeen painted similarly bleak pictures of sex trafficking of teenagers. The following is transcribed from the video:
Sgt. Justice: “Oh my G-d, this is so out of contro and so bad. I mean, it is just mind boggling, to a guy who has been a cop this long, and to see the lack of resources and the lack of help.”
Alexis Del Cid [voiceover]: Portland Police Vice sergeant Doug Justice says in nearly 30 years on the force he has never seen anything as bad as the child sex trafficking situtation in the Portland area, and his partner agrees.
Officer Burkeen: “Good girls that come from great families, good strong families with a mother and a father that care about them a lot, get into prostitution.”
Sgt. Justice: “This is West Linn, Lake Oswego, Estacada. You name it. Reynolds [High School]. Everywhere it’s happening.”
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/mediacenter/default.aspx?videoId=13306@koin.dayport.com&navCatId=156
Jden says: January 15, 2011 at 2:53 pm
“Also please look at the resolution of the photo (with) KyH carefully as compared to the other one without. The entire photo looks a bit blurred as compared to the other. The only exception is KyH, which is clear and crisp. I definitely think this photo has been altered.”
You are not the first person to say this. However, if the photo is altered, then why are witnesses, including then-PTA president Gina Zimmerman claiming Terri Horman was in the school and taking photos of Kyron?
There is a reasonable explanation for the fact that Kyron is in focus while other part of the photo are not. When you focus a camera on a subject, the rest of the photo can appear blurry. This becomes more pronounced for objects that are much closer or much further away.
If you look at Kyron, he is in focus, and details are visible on enlargement of the photo. The floor next to Kyron has a pronounced line where the pieces of tile meet. The chair next to him is also in focus. However, objects and people appear increasingly blurry the further they are from Kyron, and the people and items nearest the back wall are least in-focus and appear blurry.
There are settings on some digital cameras — macro settings, face recognition, etc. — that will put the subject in focus while blurring the rest of the photo. There are also software programs, smart phone software, and iPhone apps that can do the same thing.
I’m more puzzled by the left arm that’s cut off in the photo, but it looks like Kyron tucked his left arm behind his back so that it wouldn’t obscure the view of the diorama. Kyron’s left shoulder and body are angled in a way that suggests the focus of the photo — for him — is his science fair project.
Given that this is the last known photo of Kyron before he disappeared, I would definitely be interested in an expert’s take on whether it was altered, even if only to put the issue to rest.
~~~~~~~
MockingbirdSings says: January 16, 2011 at 12:15 am
“Lea says – I guess it depends on which camp you are in”
“MBS – I was trying to ask the questions without the “benefit” of being in a camp. Not expecting answers to all of them – some are impossible to answer without more information that we have now.”
My comment was not directed at you personally. In my opinion, if you have other people touring the science fair, it would be hard to get a photo without someone in the frame. To me, the person who stands out most is the heavyset man in the background who is bent over in a very awkward position, not the tall guy who was circled by Willamette Week and dubbed “mystery man.”
~~~~~~~
MockingbirdSings says:
“Lea – If Ms. Horman had such a photo that would exonerate her, then why withhold it?”
“MBS – That doesn’t seem to be the way she thinks. If LE does not come up with enough evidence to charge anybody with anything, the picture could be more useful to her in another way. Why waste the “card” if it’s never needed to win the game?”
In my mind, the issue is quite simple: Ms. Horman has made statements that she hates people talking badly about her. She seems very uncomfortable with the negative attention, too. Given this information, I cannot see her hiding such information if it could prove her innocence.
~~~~~~~
MockingbirdSings says:
“Lea Conner says- If you enhance and blow-up the photo, the mystery man is definitely male and with facial hair. He looks a bit older and ‘weathered.’”
“MBS – I thought no one could see his face in the picture.”
Here are the enlarged photos (courtesy of Brandi Monkey and Crankycrankerson):
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image149-1.png
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Kyron%20Horman%20%20-OR-/m_68adde70378c49229cd024e30e8e6a6a.jpg
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo242/Brandi-Monkey/Kyron/Image154.png
~~~~~~~
MockingbirdSings says:
“Lea says – Unless I’m mistaken, the daycare is only a transitional before- and after-school program. As such, if there were children in day care who attended the science fair, they would be arriving from the daycare at some point.”
“MBS – I was thinking about when they were leaving rather than arriving, but I also thought that someone had confirmed you did not have to be a Skyline student to be in the daycare, so I’m not sure whether the daycare is related to this case at all. I do remember someone saying that if the school had a late opening, parents could use the daycare just for that if needed and arranged in advance.”
The “daycare” is apparently open to Skyline students and non-Skyline students. The PPS bus policies give procedures for arranging for bus transportation for students who want to hitch a ride on another school’s bus. It would seem to fit this scenario.
Another poster said the program is in the cafeteria.
If you photoshop the pic of sf, with the pic of Bill Tandy, it appears to be him without the goatee. I still believe TH is 99.9 % guilty of Kyons disappearance. Sorry i don’t know how to post the link of the pics photo shopped!
@cbickel: Yes, cb, I remember it too. Cbickel said, “Poster said it was RS father and with his, not RS’s, grandaughters that were the “chaperone and two girls”.”
***************
@amysSister: fascinating measurements! So, you think Elsy was still somewhere in town on June 4? And we can ignore the “alledged” date she “alledgedly” abducted her kids, May 19?
***************
@enumclawrose: OK, you get Dogged Researcher Award of the Day. Have you tried to run down that connection with Rudy maybe as a renter at property owned by the older folks?
And, do you have a clue as to why Kim Holm’s child is named Kurtis Holm while all her others were Villareals? That’s always puzzled me.
@ Beejay – you are correct. DHS records are not available to the public and cases are handled in juvenile court. A parent could be prosecuted for a criminal act which would be reported, but you still wouldn’t find out much detail about a related custody investigation or the results (adoption, guardianship, foster care, etc.) Working in a school, I knew who was living with a foster parent, and could find out if a family had an open file and who the case worker was if I called to report something or ask about getting them services, but not much else. Even if the parents are involved in a criminal case, incarcerated, or whatever, the DHS records are designed to, ideally, protect children.
I’m sure you already know, custody can also be divided between parent and state. A child can be a ward of the state and the parent can have physical custody during an investigation, but physical custody has restrictions and requires permission from DHS (leaving the state, for example) which is often hard to get. Leaving the state without permission is custodial interference even if you have physical custody.
Federal guidelines for DHS cases including custody evaluations require things to move much faster than they used to even 6 or 7 years ago so that children do not spend years in foster care and often in multiple placements.
IMO I still feel Terri owed a debt for drugs or crossed the wrong people when she called 911 in May.
Kyron was collateral damage. I think Terri knows what happened to Kyron and where he could have ended up. She may have been blindsided on June 4th as stated but IMO too many coinkydinks that day!
and from the recent info on BOC that Kaine attended a human trafficking conference I would say this is what he believes happened to Kyron.
Terri let the vampires in.
This has all been said before.
Could it be that RS & Associates is Rudy Sanchez and his aliases?
I posted this months ago, but perhaps without the name. Found it again, just FYI:
Owner of house Rudy rents is ANGEL-GOMEZ OCTAVIANO. He got a building permit for installing new windows at that addy. (At least he SAID he was the owner. I did not confirm that with govt real estate or tax records.)
Permit No: B0191309 Parcel No: 22E08BA02000 Class: 434 Applied: 06/23/2009
Type: SFR Fees Req: $53.98 No. Bldgs: 1 Issued: 06/23/2009
Status: ISSUED Fees Col: $53.98 No. Units: 0 Val (Value Cust): $1,500.00
Insp Area: 1 Balance: $0.00 Sq. Ft: 0 Val (Calc): $1,500.00
Address: 7169 SE RENADA ST CLAC OCC: R-3
Description: REPLACE WINDOWS Contact Phone: 503 313 9308
Applicant: ANGEL-GOMEZ OCTAVIANO 7169 SE RENADA ST MILWAUKIE, OR 97267
Owner: ANGEL-GOMEZ OCTAVIANO MILWAUKIE, OR 7169 SE RENADA ST 97267
Contractor: [none named]
@beejay: regarding Ubaldo “R” and Ubaldo “F”
I did a search on them (I have a paid service) and this is what I found. (good luck with this one)
Ubaldo F detail (whose name is tied to the 955 S pacific hwy):
First Name ALBALDO Last Name SANCHEZ
Address 955 S PACIFIC HY City WOODBURN
State OR Zip 97071
First Name ALBALDO Last Name SANCHEZ
Address 459 4TH ST City WOODBURN
State OR Zip 97071
First Name ALBALDO Last Name SANCHEZ
Address 13441 PACIFIC HWY E City WOODBURN
State OR Zip 97071
First Name F Middle Initial S
Middle Name SANCHEZ Last Name UBALDO
Address 13441 PACIFIC HWY E City WOODBURN
State OR Zip 97071
First Name F Middle Initial S
Middle Name SANCHEZ Last Name UBALDO
Address 955 S PACIFIC HY City WOODBURN
State OR Zip 97071
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial F
Last Name SANCHEZ Address 955 PACIFIC HY
City WOODBURN State OR
Zip 97071 AKA SANCHEZ, VBALDO
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial F
Last Name SANCHEZ Address 955 PORTLAND RD NE
City WOODBURN State OR
Zip 97071 AKA SANCHEZ, VBALDO
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial F
Last Name SANCHEZ AKA SANCHEZ, VBALDO
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial F
Last Name SANCHEZ Address 459 4TH ST
Address (line 2) 35 City WOODBURN
State OR Zip 97071
AKA SANCHEZ, VBALDO
***********************************************************
Ubaldo R alias names:
First Name RAFAEL Last Name CONTRERAS
Address 11633 BASYE ST Address (line 2) 7
City EL MONTE State CA
Zip 91732
First Name RAFAEL Last Name FRANCO
Address 11041 LOWER AZUSA RD Address (line 2) 2
City EL MONTE State CA
Zip 91731
First Name RAFAEL Last Name CONTRERAS
Address 11633 BASYE ST Address (line 2) 7
City EL MONTE State CA
Zip 91732
First Name RAFAEL Last Name FRANCO
Address 11041 LOWER AZUSA RD Address (line 2) 2
City EL MONTE State CA
Zip 91731
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial R
Last Name SANCHEZ Address 608 MOLALLA AVE
City OREGON CITY State OR
Zip 97045 AKA SANCHEZ, ROBLES, U
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial R
Last Name SANCHEZ Address 27035 S SKINNER RD
City ESTACADA State OR
Zip 97023 AKA SANCHEZ, ROBLES, U
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial R
Last Name SANCHEZ Address 19839 HIGHWAY 213
City OREGON CITY State OR
Zip 97045 AKA SANCHEZ, ROBLES, U
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial R
Last Name SANCHEZ Address 19839 S HIGHWAY 213 HWY
City OREGON CITY State OR
Zip 97045 AKA SANCHEZ, ROBLES, U
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial R
Last Name SANCHEZ Address 608 MOLALLA AVE
City OREGON CITY State OR
Zip 97045 AKA SANCHEZ, ROBLES, U
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial R
Last Name SANCHEZ Address 27035 S SKINNER RD
City ESTACADA State OR
Zip 97023 AKA SANCHEZ, ROBLES, U
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial R
Last Name SANCHEZ Address 19839 HIGHWAY 213
City OREGON CITY State OR
Zip 97045 AKA SANCHEZ, ROBLES, U
First Name UBALDO Middle Initial R
Last Name SANCHEZ Address 19839 S HIGHWAY 213 HWY
City OREGON CITY State OR
Zip 97045 AKA SANCHEZ, ROBLES, U
good diagrams of inside Skyline …
Enlarge the size to see better:
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/Maps%20KYRON/?action=view¤t=MainFPofSkylineSchool.jpg
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/Maps%20KYRON/?action=view¤t=BasementFPofSkylineSchool.jpg
Beejay says –
To all: I still believe that anyone who was in camera range of Terri at the Fair would have aborted his plan to take Ky that day. And probably wouldn’t have been that close to Ky or Terri in the first place. (just opinion; no evidence for that)
Personally, I think that SZ is not on camera, probably not on the Sci Fair attendee list, and not on any other list I’ve seen. (I’m still open to all those possibilities, though. And at the possibility that some known person let him in–inadvertently or not). I think we need to put him on a list, though, and the sooner the better.
———-
You are probably right about all of that, but given the number of parents and teachers who probably had cameras and wanted to photograph or video the SF exhibits and the event in general, if SZ were walking around the exhibits he’d have to be very alert to avoid ANY camera.
So perhaps he never went through exhibits at all?
Also – we have referred to the Skyline list as being those who were at the SF and it did include our turf tech and bus drivers – but those people could hardly be missed when making a list. Obviously, SZ has to be on the list, or one or more people are NOT on the list. If the daycare was operating in the morning (I would assume it was), I would think that all of those people including ones dropping off kids would have been put on the list as well. Just a list of who looked at exhibits wouldn’t make sense. Maybe LE has a longer list that the one they gave to Skyline parents?
Did I say what Are we doing here I get depressed over Kyron
some days but we are on a mission
@Constance
I have sat on the fence on Terri since the start, her actions keep her
looking suspect for sure
but I am glad we are still looking at RS and SZ
I really hope Feb brings some answers
and brings Kyron home
not a trace of him is pretty depressing
What has puzzled me is if Terri wrote hate emails about Kyron
why wasn’t it reported
constance says:
January 18, 2011 at 1:37 am
Are you sure it wasn’t the Vigil for Hope that Kaine was at? That took place on Sunday night, for missing kids in general, not just sex trafficking…
——————————————————————–
Missing Kyron Horman Michael Hall, Rodney Stearns (Text No More), Ronda Hall, Kaine Horman, Daryl Hannah at the Northwest Conference Against Trafficking on Sunday.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Missing-Kyron-Horman/125336750831264
http://www.ungift.org/knowledgehub/events/northwest-conference-against-trafficking.html
It looks to me like it was a conference about global sex trafficking.
Makes me wonder if Kaine has been given some more information about what happened to Kyron.
@4.puzzled says:
January 18, 2011 at 12:06 pm
@Constance
I want to acknowledge that you probably speak for a lot of people … who believe and have from the beginning that TH and only TH is responsible for the disappearance of her step-son.
But, If KyH did not leave Skyline with TH … how did he disappear? Obviously, LE is asking the same question.
————————————————–
I haven’t waivered from my belief which is; TH orchestrated, planned and caused Ky’s disappearance with the help of one individual. If LE can identify and connect that one individual to TH (I think LE is pursuing that course) they will possibly crack and solve the case.
I believe the chain of events leading to Ky’s disappearance started well before June 4 2010. Also, if this was not an isolated incident I would have expected LE to have informed the public before now and they haven’t. Hope we get some updates from Staton soon.
Much of our early discussion about Elsy & kids was around Sept 13 -15, under BOC’s Happy B’day to the Frog Prince piece.
From there I want to repost this from Blink:
Rich M says:
September 14, 2010 at 9:19 am
Blink-do you still think that Elsy and kids going missing is still unrelated to this case?
Another thought-I am waging the intro to RS came from Dede?
I said it was a separate issue, not necessary unrelated.
Let me say why- when we talk about the amount of permutations of names these individuals are using, I am wary of confirming “who is who” as in defined, by their name, because, honestly, I have intel about several individuals also linked to said addresses that have not come up yet.
B
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/09/09/kyron-horman-missing-case-review-and-birthday-wishes-to-the-frog-prince/comment-page-9/#comments
Any reason to discount newsatfive’s (a/k/a Lea Conner)earlier post:
“Rumors abound that Terri Horman’s cell phone pings led searchers to the island.(NOTE: It is my understanding that the search was based on the river’s current and projected date upon which a body would reach Sauvie Island from Vancouver. This information has since been posted elsewhere.)”
from:
newsatfive says:
September 15, 2010 at 8:07 pm
link:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/09/09/kyron-horman-missing-case-review-and-birthday-wishes-to-the-frog-prince/comment-page-12/#comments
_____________
What? VANCOUVER? Posted where else? Still valid??
I’m not sure if this helps with the MM aspect; but…
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/24/kyron-horman-update-facebook-follower-claims-man-in-photo-identified/
Prayers with Kyron.
I’m still around, believe TH is the one responsible for Kyron disappearing. LE is doing what needs to be done for trial and all will come out when the time is right. I think the Feb. 1st date will be another request for some more funding, maybe arrest in March when the divorce is scheduled? Who knows how many twists and turns this case has had already? I think Kaine is “quiet” because he knows it is all going to come out, just waiting for all the research to be finished. I think they pretty much know the who, what and where, just pulling it all together. Enjoy this blog very much and admire all the work everyone is doing. I don’t have much to add, just waiting for more news.
beejay says: January 18, 2011 at 8:44 am
“Confessing, here. That was my post to True Nelson that he answered on Jan 13. (see his Jan 7 piece; I’m comment #2, printed in full below). But he snipped my rationale and the real question I was asking him, since he said he though Ky is in Mex/Guatamala. Why? So, I asked him: ‘Thank you so much for your insight. One thing puzzles me: why would someone go through the ordeal of snatching this child and getting him into Mexico/Guatemala? Surely it would be solely for personal use. Because in those countries local kids are so readily available for sex. Why take the risks that were taken?’ January 11, 2011 6:51 AM”
“I was hoping to get more insight specific to Ky’s case, but didn’t. Those countries are full of local kids who are prostituted, both to locals, and in the tourist sex business. Why go to all the trouble to take Ky? (Want a caucasian???)”
“In a similar vein, I believe that Kaine and Desiree have latched onto this a the only viable theory, this late, that supports Ky being alive. Which they desperately want to believe. LE is not telling them that as a given; but, once again, MCSO has “no evidence” to suggest it didn’t happen either.”
You might want to take a look at the US Dept. of Justice website for Hague Abduction Convention information, which deals with international child abduction.
My recollection is that Mexico doesn’t look for missing children.
Here’s a more scholarly take on the situation:
“Even if the country to which the child is removed upholds the Convention, the parent seeking the child’s return should also attempt to pursue non-Hague remedies. Pursuing alternative remedies, in addition to implementing the international child kidnapping prevention strategies discussed above is important because in many instances it is difficult to achieve the return of children through Hague. For example, in 2003 the U.S. has determined that Mexico was ‘non-compliant’ under the Hague Convention because Mexico lacked implementing legislation, resources, and familiarity among the judiciary of the duties and responsibilities of the Convention. Since more children are abducted from the United States and taken to Mexico than any other country, these findings are particularly problematic. The best course of action in all cases for counsel and advocates representing battered women concerned about international abduction is to use all means necessary to prevent these abductions before they take place. Non-Hague remedies may include attempts to negotiate the return of children by friends and relatives of the abducting parent, or by law enforcement officials or prosecutors.”
http://www.legalmomentum.org/assets/pdfs/www6_3_hague_int__child_abduction_convention_cases_and_p.pdf
37.justice23 says:
January 18, 2011 at 1:16 am
RE: Slightly O/T, but something every parent should see.
——-
@justice23- Thank you for sharing that. It made me cry watching so many people just walk by! I have posted it on my FB and I hope everyone does the same.
*****************************
I received a reply today from Timur Van Dykes parole officer. He is currenly homeless here in Portland, in “treatment”, and checks in with her every week. With regard to Kyron’s case, he was interviewed by MCSO and FBI and given polygraph tests, which he passed. It makes me sick that the POS is free, as I feel he is very like to re-offend, and I hope he hasn’t already. Sigh…
3.Amy’s Sister says:
January 18, 2011 at 11:34 am
@Amy’s Sister- LOL, I landed here by accident, too! I agree with you, I’m so glad I did, too.
*******************
@beejay- LOL, I’m so NOT surpised that you commented on True’s site. I’ve been reading there for months and find his thoughts very insightful.
******************
My deepest thanks to Blink and everyone here for working away on Kyron’s behalf and not giving up. I’m so glad that we are doing something every single day here and not just sitting around with our thumbs up our butts, cuz’ that ain’t gonna’ get er’ done. I’m glad so many of you are willing to keep at it with me!
RE: Elder “Tweet”
Could it be that the home is being use as either an “adult senior group home” ?
-Or-
the “sanchez/estranda/ enchilda crew” is doing some type of in home care of the elder “tweet” ?
MockingbirdSing has mentioned it is a large/ multi-bedroom house so —?
It is reported a lot of ” care givers” who “befriends” a senior & move into senior’s home. The caregiver’s have not always had the senior’s welfare in mind …
Could it be possible for a “cover” for other “behavior” ?
JMHO …. questioning … to infinity & beyond … FOR KYRON.
________________________________
enumclawrose says:
January 18, 2011 at 3:31 am
Here is a “tweet” for you all. Ruth Ingeborg Tweet, possible associate or room mate of Rodolfo Sanchez, Rodolfo S Estrada (definately our Rudy). I originally thought the Tweet’s may have had the Renada St house prior to the Sanchez-Estrada gang, but who knows.
http://www.veromi.net/Summary.asp?fn=RUTH&mn=I&ln=TWEET&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&city=&state=&age=&vw=&Search=&Input=&x=49&y=10
OBIT for Ruth Tweet’s sister, Helen L Dupus (86) names Helen’s daughter:
Dorothy “Dotty” HOLM of Lake Oswego
Survivors include her daughter, Dotty Holm of Lake Oswego and Carol Johns of Oregon City; her sister Ruth Tweet of Milwaukie; five grandchildren and three great-grandchildren.
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.northam.usa.states.oregon.counties.lincoln/1147/mb.ashx
At first I thought Dotty could be Kim’s mother, but she and/or Carol have 5 kids, which I think I can account for, but there are only three ggkids, which with Kim’s gang, there would be lots more if Kim were Dotty’s daughter.
Don’t forget Dotty’s sister Ruth Tweet is connected to Rudy. So maybe Kim’s dad (HOLM) and Dotty’s husband (HOLM) are related?
Looks like LE is doing a great job with these kind of people.
http://pdxmugshots.com/mug/craig-ralph-sharp
Sorry – it was a busy morning and I’m not sure I made this part clear:”Obviously, SZ has to be on the list, or one or more people are NOT on the list. If the daycare was operating in the morning (I would assume it was), I would think that all of those people including ones dropping off kids would have been put on the list as well. Just a list of who looked at exhibits wouldn’t make sense. Maybe LE has a longer list that the one they gave to Skyline parents?”
I was trying to say that either the list includes SZ or it doesn’t and if it doesn’t, then there might be even more names which were missed or omitted for one reason or another. Seems the daycare staff and those parents and students who were not Skyline students would also be on the list if it is supposed to be a list of everyone on school property that morning.
Do we know if the daycare parents and staff also got the list of names to review?
If the daycare was open that morning, do we know if they had to temporarily move to other areas to allow room for the science fair?
Is it possible LE has names they withheld from the list that was given out, for some reason? (Don’t ask me why yet?)
In case no one has said – Kaine was also at the conference to support the guy who started the text app I posted about – the one that is sending Kyron’s picture and information out.
http://www.kptv.com/technology/26371893/detail.html
Rodney Stearns who founded the company, Text No More, was also there.
I feel as though Kyron was capable of walking out of the school all by himself, and climbing into the familiar truck at someone’s request/direction. I don’t find it to be likely that someone unknown to anyone at the school would take a chance of walking out with a child, i.e. a friend of Terri’s, or even a landscaper who may or may not be a regular at the school as an employee.
I had an epiphany as I watched a kid walk down the hall today. I’m pretty sure headless lumberjack is her dad and its her little sister in the pic. I don’t think that line of questioningvwill get you anywhere.
Then you know his name then, correct? Otherwise, I do not see how that is an ephiphany, a possibility, yes.
B
I decided to stare at the photo of Kyron with his SF project and took a longer look at the plaid-jacket person in the background.
A few others here have described how they see that figure. I see it differently.
The person is a big person. Bulky. We are looking at this person’s arm – he/she is standing facing the wall of the classroom and bending over. The arm is slightly bent in toward the body. At the bend in the arm, I see that either the person has a bit of a belly, or the plaid shirt/jacket is open and thus makes the mid section look big.
Whether or not this is a suspect of LE, I don’t know, but the person was moving when the photo was taken. To me it looks like a big guy leaning down to either look at something that we can’t see behind Kyron’s project board, or leaning away and down to talk to a child we can’t see.
#
MockingbirdSings says:
January 18, 2011 at 12:31 am
“S says – “Would it not be likely that this pic would have been widely distributed by LE in an attempt to identify the girl or the man?”
In all honesty, I used to think as a fairly intelligent, experienced person I could answer questions like that. This case, however, has really made me question what I thought I knew about how LE investigates – not their dedication, expertise, or diligence, but their methods. Once you understand that LE is allowed to lie as an investigative technique, and then LE greatly restricts the flow of information that isn’t even totally private, you (I, anyway) start to wonder if you really know the answers to questions like these anymore.”
MBS-thank you so much for responding! I’m really not asking what I consider to be rhetorical questions, I really need input! THANKS!
I don’t know whether I’m frightened or sickened when considering that LE would have a picture of a pedo and not share it! I hope it’s not the case.
“puzzled says:
January 18, 2011 at 12:06 pm
@Constance
I want to acknowledge that you probably speak for a lot of people … who believe and have from the beginning that TH and only TH is responsible for the disappearance of her step-son.
But, If KyH did not leave Skyline with TH … how did he disappear? Obviously, LE is asking the same question.”
I have to see “A witness saw inside Kaine Hormon’s truck and did not see Kyron in the truck when TH drove away from Skyline School.” in bold before I can consider it a fact that Kyron could not have been taken away from the area by TH.
We have the list of every adult at the school the morning of the SF. Whether LE left off hazy, cloud-covered, weird, non-descriptive guy, we don’t know. The Skyline community remains mum about this. However, if no one has been left off the list, then you have the name of the perp in front of you.
Legal Immigration Question
I have tried to research this question and cannot come up with a straight answer. If a person in the US is here illegally and has a child (commonly refered to as an anchor baby), who has legal custody of the child? If the child is on any form of public assistance does that make the state automatically the custodial entity for the child?
This might explain why DHS is involved with Jaime and Ublado, Elsy’s kids.
I think most who think TH did it are coming around to the fact that she had some help. I think those who think it was a perp consider that she most likely knew him and assisted. We are coming together from different directions and that might be where a jury finds itself someday, looking at what degree each party participated.
I think Blink made reference to looking at a stone to bleed. In other words, we are not going to get the information from TH, so we turn our attention elsewhere. I agree with your last sentence, she will never be free of this, we just need to make sure that is what she deserves.
I, for one, with what I see, think she does, if only for her lack of sacrificing her privacy to help find her son. Anything else she has done after that just turns up the degrees IMO.
26.Rollermonkey says:
January 17, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Just posting my 2 cents worth… I still think this is all Terri. I do think another person(s) has to be involved to a certain degree. Remember… LE has not, will not and should not confirm anything about this case other than that little Kyron is missing.
Based on the few things we actually know, and based on the focus of the searches so far, I still think this is all Terri. I think Terri DOES have an IDEA what happened to Kyron. Much more so than anybody else. She’s just watched enough crime TV to know she has a better chance of getting away with this by keeping her mouth shut.
Terri will never EVER be free of this…
Questions regarding the before/after school daycare:
The kids care at Skyline would most likely be for school aged children. The provider seems to have a location for a day care center and then runs the programs at elementary schools. There programs are designed so that parents have someone to watch kids if they have to go to work before school starts or work after school lets out. There is no full time day care at Skyline, right? There would be no sense in taking a toddler to kids care for an hour or so and then having to go back and get the toddler when school starts, right?
On Science Fair day, did the provider accept small payments in lieu of the standard tuition to watch toddlers so the parents of the students could tour the fair without little kids? Is this what TH did with Kiara? Is this why so many questions about IF TH had the baby with her? Maybe TH was in and out of the cafeteria on 06/04. Maybe she said bye to Ky and went downstairs to get Kiara?
Puzz, I was part of that. I swore by it, too. But think for a minute, how many “missing posters” have addresses on them? Answer: None. Why would that one poster have an address? Doesn’t make sense. No doubt we saw the address, but are we sure it was on that poster?
I did answer you about the companion phrase, but it was in moderation for awhile. On the same poster, she is identified as their mother. It is as though there is some intentional confusion.
_______________________________________________________
20.puzzled says:
January 17, 2011 at 9:18 pm
@Rosey …
… “Also reading the posts where some of us go back and forth about the 955 S Pacific Hwy being on the poster; there is not one single missing child poster with an address listed on it, so why did we think we saw that? Perhaps in the article? IDK…”
~~~
there were three of us who saw the 955 S Pacific Hwy on the poster for missing children .. within a day the address was gone .. we all asked about it, each thinking we were losing it … but were able to validate each other, that indeed 955 S Pacific had been seen.
I don’t recall, in all the times I’ve looked at that poster with the same info … that Elsy was referred to as “companion”
Information disappears in this case … why?????
Prayers that those investigating will find something new to crack the case and get justice for Kyron.
Here is a link to TH’s FB photos, cut and past into your browser:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1356420&id=1264414625&fbid=1485803106095
Does anyone know when the picture of K.(Ky’s friend) in front of his own tree frog poster was taken? It comes after the picture of Ky in front of his poster and appears that K.’s(ky’s friend)picture was taken before all the posters were set up in the classroom. When did K.(Ky’s friend) set up his poster in the classroon? Were the posters set up the morning of June 4th or the afternoon before on June 3rd. K.’s poster appears to be one of the first ones set up in the classroom. Maybe this is another red herring but I think it is intriging that his picture is posted out of order in facebook. Especially if TMH downloaded them to facebook from her camera. Why change the order? Other pictures seem to be posted in order.
This is from SM Sassifras. I have no way to post to her directly, but this is of interest to me. I tried that address 13441 Pacific Hwy E, Woodburn and came up empty. Hoping Beejay, Kimberly or Sammy can straighten me out or Sassifras will post over here. Would love to get my hands on that list. TIA.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9196.940
So I did a search on the infamous address of 955 S Pacific hwy, Woodburn, Or, and before I explain the results you have to understand how this address works.
Pacific hwy is also known as 99E, which becomes 213, so the address above (955 S Pacific hwy) is also labeled as 13441 PACIFIC HWY E, Woodburn, Or. Having said that, when I did a search of the address, over 285 names were associated with it. 12 pages of names.
@Lea Conner: you said, “My recollection is that Mexico doesn’t look for missing children.”
_____________
Exactly. And that is why Ky’s parents should have long ago hired a PI firm that does this kind of work if they seriously believed Ky was in Mexico. It’s extremely expensive; it might be difficult for Tony to support; but it would probably be the best option. Our fed agencies working in Mexico have far more to do than look for one missing child or try to negotiate a search with the Mexican govt (which I do believe is unstable at this time).
Can I repeat my old mantra? Hire a PI. An international firm.
BJ, while I agree in theory if in fact we were talking about your garden variety ill-equipped LEA, however, last I counted there are 4 Federal Agencies tapped in this case. If there was evidence or suspicion that Kyron was in Mexico, they have far superior resources than any PI firm, National or otherwise, to run that down.
If there was any evidence this was a trafficking case, it would be handled by the Feds, period.
B
@Idahogal: TY so much for reporting your convo with Timur’s supervisor. I have, however, one HUGE reservation and it relates to both the “science” of polygraphing and to the character of folks who are able to “pass” polygraphs although they are lying thru their teeth.
What I want is an iron-clad alibi for Timur on June 4 (and NOT from a relative or some homeless homie of his). I do not care how well he performs on polygraphs. Ya know? I believe him as far as I can throw him. (Doesn’t mean he had anything to do with Ky.)
You said: “With regard to Kyron’s case, he was interviewed by MCSO and FBI and given polygraph tests, which he passed.”
********************
To others researching new Estrada businesses: when you’re looking at the business registry at OR Sec of State, be sure to click on those column headings for an explanation of the abbreviations. IIRC, the latest Estrada consulting business is a Foreign Business Corporation. Meaning, organized out of state, but registered to do business in Oregon. If you go looking for it, try Delaware first since that has been the traditional state for incorporations due to favorable tax treatment there. I did not look because I don’t suspect this is a Jaime enterprise.
@42. E-rose. Was out of State 3 days & still ill (TY for remedies btw). So cant keep up, much less post
but, this former cpsd worker notes if illegal has US citz kids, parents have custody. Public asstce does not affect custody. Custody can go to DHS only after a Trial, or if voluntarily requested by the parent & accepted by the State.
Re on site day care, written about last summer. Here in our public school a church is the onsite contractor (despite a thoroughly Jewish population). School parents enroll before, or after, or both. Here it is also in cafeteria – from which kids exit to also use blacktop/playground. No one leaves at 845 am except the 2 daycare workers. This is for school before-care, not universal day care. In the afternoon here, kids are also bused over from a nearby school without onsite care. Younger nonschool age sibs arent enrolled & dont drop in. I cant imagine a public school permitting a contractor to have drop ins.
last weekend msnbc had a profile with interviews of a RSO in California (young women) who escalated to murder. His interviews were striking for manifesting every psychological trait Blink has recently referred to. He used the same “hook” to lure each girl (casting opp). I think a RSO would have a similar “hook” to obtain prey like Kyron. What would be a workable hook for Kyron similar to be used for any young boy?
(In Kyron’s case, I even wondered if those recycling compost heaps at Skyline have worms for fishing trips)