Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island
Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.
Update 1: As referenced on KOIN, a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair. Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing. The possible “hair” was sent for testing.
Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.
Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman, Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.
It is also the former home of a man considered to be Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results. Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.
Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.
David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle and is being cared for by a friend of the family. Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this breaking story.
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I think TH may have “blabbed” to the wrong person(s) regarding her hatred for Kyron (if in fact they have proof in the emails). If she or KH had iffy associations with people involved in alternative lifestyles a jealous lover or partner could have retaliated by taking Kyron for self use. I don’t think Terri knows where Kyron is and that was part of the plan. jmo
@MBS – TY for the Path. Liar info., very interesting and IMO fits her to a tee. Also appreciate your posts wrt the abatement issues.
Hoping to hear from Blink and/or Lea as well.
I do not understand this legal stuff or pretend to
I am beginning to wonder if Terri is a witness to something
Or what
Not a suspect but a witness
That was a lot to read and I don’t even pretend to understand the legal ramifications of all of it, but I will be more surprised if a stay is not granted.
Bunch is implying the DA is building a circumstantial case against TMH, but after two years, they are still missing “a link in the chain” of circumstantial evidence. Is the link SZ? I really don’t get it, how can they even begin to build a circumstantial case against ANYONE, if they do not know what happened to Kyron? What do they have? Is it a murder? Is it a custodial kidnapping? What more have they found that we don’t know about, yet not enough to arrest Terri? Ugggh, this case gives me a headache.
Rose says:
July 26, 2012 at 11:52 am
Color me cynical, but Shrunk may have no deeper purpose
in the civil suits than to burn through her assets
such that she can no longer pay for an effective criminal defense.
————————
Houze has been known to work for free if he considers a potential client particularly deserving (not necessarily innocent). If he thought the DA (whom he knows well) was involved in trying to win a case by somehow lowering the defendant’s quality of defense, I suspect he would finish the case(s) for free. IMO, if Houze ever gives up on Terri, it will only be because she stopped cooperating with him. In other words, it speaks to Houze’s ethics, not Terri’s finances – and I think the DA would expect the same.
I correct the word suspect I know she is not a suspect
I just don’t know exactly what word covers
What situation Terri is in
Well, that is a lot to read, and I am no legal beagle. I do have a few comments wrt the abatement filing:
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/abate.pdf
So…why is Bunch handling this instead of Houze? That is curious, no? Is he too busy? Too expensive?
Also, snipping here from abatement filing>>>>
Page 23, Line 18 says:
Horman is the focus of an ongoing investigation into the disappearance of Kyron, as well as the subject of an investigation involving an alleged murder-for- hire plot.
So we know that she is still in hot water for both of these alleged crimes. We also know the GJ is still meeting. I have a few questions answered now and even more spring forth.
Where is the consideration of Kyron and what his rights are and seeking justice for him? He has been gone over 2 years, a very obvious crime and victim. I know this is our system and it is the best around, but sometimes it really blows.
I have wondered if TH’s emails were to James. This would certainly be a reason to not have him testify.
Cold Case:
DAD
Kyron
DeDe
Hair on SI
Intel Connection
Lifestyles
Nobody’s talkin’
‘Bout nuthin’
…and all this time a little boy who never hurt anyone is waiting to be found.
@Malty says:
July 26, 2012 at 12:53 pm
“I do not understand this legal stuff or pretend to
I am beginning to wonder if Terri is a witness to something
Or what
Not a suspect but a witness”
—————————————————————-
You could be right Malty. I’ve thought that myself. Doesn’t mean she’s wasn’t part of a cover-up in Ky’s disappearance tho.
@ Malty says:
July 26, 2012 at 6:33 pm
“I correct the word suspect I know she is not a suspect
I just don’t know exactly what word covers
What situation Terri is in”
———————————————-
trouble.
Trouble fits like a glove.
All 3 of them are in it, and Kyron most of all, for their failings as adults.
Just google balancing tests legal. But it’s better to hear from Lea. Especially when Rosenthal answers.
Bunch did a thorough job, though none of it was esoteric or breaking new ground.
I Like the word synchronisric. In reply, I bet Rosenthal will want to break new ground.
Bunch is lead attorney, Idaho, because this is a civil case, not criminal. He’s doing Ms. Horman a favor, imo, as he limits his practice to family law, and this case is one part criminal law, one part personal injury tort, and one part family law/custodial interference. It’s messy. It goes against a constitutional law/civil rights grain, which is Rosenthal’s claim to status, though he’s a PI attorney. I can only think Rosenthal’s wife or daughter has talked him into this.
Imo the thing with “balancing tests” is plaintiff’s attorney can as easily analyse the other way. Lets a judge have cover for what he thinks fair . back to Messenheimer. If he did the balancing thing, imo it made amends for the initial ex parte RO, leaning safely from one direction to the other. Will Kantor be cautious? imo Yes. No risk to the public if he abates.
Whoever received the alleged I hate Kyron emails turned them
over to LE. So it wasn’t James. But imo deposition of James prior to
custody case would benefit Kaine big time and therefore was planned.
Who referred Mrs Young to Rosenthal? Where did she first hear his name?
He’s not a natural choice for her imo.
DA? LE? Kaine? How close
professionally is Rosenthal to Rackner?
Anyone know if Laura Rackner is related to Lisa, an apparently excellent attorney,
who from veromi seems to be Alvin’s daughter?.
http://www.jewishportland.org/local_includes/downloads/50740.pdf
google says both of below are in this publication. Haven’t read it yet.
elden rosenthal; alvin & Shirley Rackner
lisa f rackner, atty
http://www.mcd-law.com/rackner.php
I’m getting interested in why all the DA/MCSO energy on these
civil suits rather than finding Kyron by turning the case over to the FBI
or an arms length cold case unit. It seems almost a personal vendetta.
Or some sort of sexually-tinged subconscious competition.
Terri seems to inspire that.
These same thoughts have trekked across my mind in the wee hours of the morning. However, given the info shared on pathological liars, who knows what convoluted truths have been spun, especially if one were married to a certain type of spouse. yikes. Makes me head like a tilt-a-whirl. And to think there is a “lost” child in the heart of this mess. We passed a truck on I-5 last Saturday while driving to Springfield from Portland and it had a large MISSING KYRON HORMAN poster on each side of the cargo area. I wanted to wave and say thank you.
__________________________________
Malty says:
July 26, 2012 at 12:53 pm
“I do not understand this legal stuff or pretend to
I am beginning to wonder if Terri is a witness to something
Or what
Not a suspect but a witness”
—————————————————————-
You could be right Malty. I’ve thought that myself. Doesn’t mean she’s wasn’t part of a cover-up in Ky’s disappearance tho.
starting to think it wasn’t the criminal case looking for a leg up in deposition but the divorce case
laura, lisa & shirley generously donating to womens’ shelters, p 5:
http://www.ncjwportland.org/images/May2012bulletin.pdf
the names are the names: p 4 http://pdx.edu/sites/www.pdx.edu.judaic/files/Fall2010%20newsletter.pdf
http://www.jewishportland.org/local_includes/downloads/50740.pdf
I come from a primarily jewish neighborhood & pta.
My daughter went to more bar & bat mitzvahs than birthday
parties for two years. I’m not being racist as much as wondering
how Rosenthal got pulled in now. And by whom. Not Mrs Young imo.
Personally think the civil suits are off task regarding Kyron. Only
the DA knows for sure.
I know steroids were discussed in the past, blink do you think there could be a link?
Moo
Jmo
I have no reason to conclude that with the exception that I was told that both Kaine and Terri had used them previously. Nine agencies, two years, a step-parent “on the job” and everyone thinks a civil suit is going to uncover information in this case oughta be enough of a concern to declare TH the criminal mastermind of 2010 or declare this case cold and worthy of new eyes and new techniques.
With much respect, it is very difficult to shake fruitless trees and expect anything to hit the ground.
With even more respect, TH is not going to be compelled to utter a syllable.
Ground Zero and Suspect Zero happen at the same place. Wth would a fact finding mission exclude both?
If everyone agrees that Skyline is the crimescene, then it is the damn crimescene, or at least one of them regardless of personal beliefs of who is involved.
So does it make sense to anyone that the crime scene is excluded in the civil suit to produce information not available to DY wrt to the whereabouts of her son?
I am repeating myself. Again.
B
I am not to excited about the PL or any labels people who are upset
Put out about someone with out an eval by a Dr of some kind
Kaine Also can’t say the same story twice in a row
When he said he rarely thinks of Terri
That really did it for me
But I am wondering who or what Terri may be a witness to that would top finding Kyron
Who would she protect and lose everything for
I don’t like the thoughts that come to mind
If you believe Terri is selfish and all the stuff said about her
Then she is protecting herself
Who is the 2nd option
If not herself then who?
Idahogal says:
July 26, 2012 at 12:46 pm
@MBS – TY for the Path. Liar info., very interesting and IMO fits her to a tee. Also appreciate your posts wrt the abatement issues.
Hoping to hear from Blink and/or Lea as well.
————
Although Kaine and desiree have stated that TH lied all of the time I have never heard them or anyone else give an example of any lie that she told them and I have never heard her say anything lie or no lie.
also with respect, the law firm bio of Mr Rosenthal states he practices “personal injury and civil rights” law.
http://www.rosenthal-greene.com/trial-lawyer-elden-rosenthal.php
Were I seeking to uncover facts wrt a crime, I’d hire a criminal attorney for this litigation.
As he does not state he specializes in criminal law, perhaps having the crime scene as an additiinal defendant did appeal wrt fact uncovering because suing PPS would bring significant attorney resources against his
client. I see his work as most immediately beneficial to the other civil action.
did **not ** appeal
lyla says:
July 26, 2012 at 8:45 pm
@ Malty says:
July 26, 2012 at 6:33 pm
“I correct the word suspect I know she is not a suspect
I just don’t know exactly what word covers
What situation Terri is in”
———————————————-
trouble.
@Lyla, Trouble is so right, LOL, good one!
——————————–
Rose says:
July 26, 2012 at 10:51 pm
Snipped>>>
Bunch is lead attorney, Idaho, because this is a civil case, not criminal. He’s doing Ms. Horman a favor, imo, as he limits his practice to family law, and this case is one part criminal law, one part personal injury tort, and one part family law/custodial interference. It’s messy. It goes against a constitutional law/civil rights grain, which is Rosenthal’s claim to status, though he’s a PI attorney. I can only think Rosenthal’s wife or daughter has talked him into this.
_____________
@Rose-TY kindly for your answers, you are always so helpful. Also, interesting speculation that the wife and/or daughter may have influenced his decisions.
*****************
Rose says:
July 26, 2012 at 11:25 pm
Whoever received the alleged I hate Kyron emails turned them
over to LE. So it wasn’t James. But imo deposition of James prior to
custody case would benefit Kaine big time and therefore was planned.
Who referred Mrs Young to Rosenthal? Where did she first hear his name?
He’s not a natural choice for her imo.
DA? LE? Kaine? How close
professionally is Rosenthal to Rackner?
____________
I would add to that the subpoenas that LE secured to take items from some of TH’s acquaintances’ homes, such as DDS and other bat phone cronies. I honestly don’t know if James’ computers & phone were looked at by LE, but it seems like that would be SOP.
My bet would be that the DA referred DY to Rosenthal, he was in the background at the presser. I agree, it would be very interesting to see if Rackner and Rosenthal have any professional links.
@Blnk’s response from Lauren says: July 27, 2012 at 1:40 am
OMG, I’m only a concerned local and I am so frustrated that this case keeps slamming up against the same brick wall going no where while an innocent little boy is still lost and waiting to be brought home. I can’t begin to imagine the frustration Blink and those of you in associated professions must feel. I know TY has to tread carefully with respect to his career and I probably have no real appreciation as to the politics and other issues that he and Desiree are facing, but I would hope that TY would have the wisdom,influence, and skill to support Desiree in an effort to help get this case redirected to the FBI or other such agency that could make some progress.
What would or could be the reason’s that the crime scene “Skyline and it’s associates” would be excluded from Desiree’s Civil Case? What is it that’s holding them all back?
Prayers for you Kyron; I hope one day you will be able to tell your side of the story.
cd says:
July 27, 2012 at 7:35 am
Idahogal says:
July 26, 2012 at 12:46 pm
@MBS – TY for the Path. Liar info., very interesting and IMO fits her to a tee. Also appreciate your posts wrt the abatement issues.
Hoping to hear from Blink and/or Lea as well.
————
Although Kaine and desiree have stated that TH lied all of the time I have never heard them or anyone else give an example of any lie that she told them and I have never heard her say anything lie or no lie.
_______________
@cd- Good point, I have not physically heard her say one word, ever. It has all been in writing or said via the media from various people and sources, IIRC.
The only legal matters going on right now are 1) The RO 2) Separation (marital) 3) Civil Suit… right? The RO and Separation could go on indefinitely, if they both agree, correct?
She’s offered to stipulate to the Dissolution of Marriage for some time,
reserving custody and assets.
Don’t know why he didn’t take her up on it.
Then his dating card could be activated.
@January. The Grand Jury is still apparently seated, per Bunch’s pleading.
Any updates on the hair that was found on Sauvie Island? Anyone?
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/07/kyron_hormans_father_kaine_hor_2.html
latest from the OL lady who informs the public about local food borne illnesses
and about Kaine’s Foundation events.
Reflecting. Blink keeps it simple. Like Malty.
There is the initial crime scene.
There is a male seen by more than one instructing Kyron to leave with him.
She has always advocated the LE investigation begin there, with all attendees on deck.
Instead LE made a leap of faith–in Rudy? in Kaine? in Tiny? in Desiree?
And tried to go backwards to that crime scene by attributing motive and by technological tracking.
That is a demonstrably failed approach.
I am here due to Blink’s approach, research-oriented posters, and respect among POVs.
Blink’s investigative method, long overdue, deserves a shot.
@Idahogal
@cd “Good point, I have not physically heard her say one word, ever. It has all been in writing or said via the media from various people and sources, IIRC.”
————————————————————-
I don’t believe Terri has ever spoken publicly. Houze has probably told her to keep her mouth zipped and for good reason. I personally do not have any reason to believe either KH or DY are not being truthful about Terri’s personality. I’m not a shrink but I have definitely had people in my life who did not have the capacity to be truthful. It’s unfortunate KH chose to marry a women he did not know well. TH is looking out for #1…herself. moo
God bless Kyron and those close to him.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-Horman-master-of-deception-108218104.html
Wasn’t it discussed at some point that Terri’s business profile had inaccuracies about her education and/or experience?
http://www.linkedin.com/in/terrihorman
Blink,
You are right, the fact that Skyline elementary is not listed on the civil suit begs the question, WHY NOT?
How much insurance do schools typically carry? Umbrella, injury, etc… There must be some sort of standard minimum I would assume. Furthermore, depending on the provider, internal investigations would take place should a claim be made or suit filed. Is there a team of lawyers for the public school district and are they discussing this case in the event that Skyline as an institution should be drawn into this mess?
WRT SZ, as much discussed on this site, given the seemingly firm belief by LE that no further danger is posed to other children at the school, what information (if any) do they have to issue such a statement? Seems a massive liability to insure safety when SZ is unknown (at least publicly) and Kyron has never been found. Aside from the fact that security measures were immediately boosted following June 4, 2010 at Skyline and other schools in the district, what would the consequences be should something else this tragic were to occur in another school? Are there legal implications? Would an insurer potentially withdraw coverage after such an incident?
All Jmo, MOO
mas says:
July 27, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Any updates on the hair that was found on Sauvie Island? Anyone?
@mas- I’ve not seen or heard one thing about it up here, no surprise, grrr. I won’t hold my breath waiting for media to follow up on it.
@Lyla. I though Kaine & Terri had lived together 4 years while she parented Kyron and served as his housekeeper. He probably had side benefits too. I am surprised he felt he didn’t know her.
The way I see the utility of the new case is this. Say Kaine couldn’t afford or didn’t want to pay (because he can’t use Foundation $) for depositions from the numerous friends, neighbors, family members, teachers, and so on he’d want under oath about Terri in the custody case. Say that sworn testimony could be gotten first in a parellel, synchronistic civil case funded by the public “for Desiree”. If Kaine might have spent for an attorney, para, and expenses of deposition for say 30 witnesses times 2 hours average each times the conservative total of $300/hr expenses, Desiree’s gofundme would be supplying about $180,000 worth of sworn statements relevant to his case, to the extent their witnesses overlap. Just a hypothetical.
our Anselmo?
illegal immigrant career criminal based in Oregon
http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?page=1&xmldoc=In%20FDCO%2020101119C07.xml&docbase=CsLwAr3-2007-Curr&SizeDisp=7
lyla says:
July 27, 2012 at 8:07 pm
@Idahogal
@cd “Good point, I have not physically heard her say one word, ever. It has all been in writing or said via the media from various people and sources, IIRC.”
————————————————————-
I don’t believe Terri has ever spoken publicly. Houze has probably told her to keep her mouth zipped and for good reason. I personally do not have any reason to believe either KH or DY are not being truthful about Terri’s personality. I’m not a shrink but I have definitely had people in my life who did not have the capacity to be truthful. It’s unfortunate KH chose to marry a women he did not know well. TH is looking out for #1…herself. moo
God bless Kyron and those close to him.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-Horman-master-of-deception-108218104.html
————–
@lyla- I’m not defending TH, simply saying that cd is right insofar as she has not uttered a word on audio tape that I’ve heard. It is my own opinion that she has a pattern of lying, based on what I have read and heard from various sources, but that is all I have to go on. It is all alleged at this point, kwim?
————-
Lauren says:
July 27, 2012 at 1:40 am
Blink’s comment to Lauren’s post:
Snipped>>>
So does it make sense to anyone that the crime scene is excluded in the civil suit to produce information not available to DY wrt to the whereabouts of her son?
I am repeating myself. Again.
B
—–
No, Blink, it doesn’t, never has. I just don’t know why PPS has gotten a pass in any of this.
the way I skim it, a Fed Distr Judge in Portland dismissed, rightfully imo, the 3 count indictment of Anselmo on which he’d been detained. The indictment would have allowed deportation without a hearing. So presumeably he was released into the community Nov 18, 2010 awaiting that hearing. The dude from Deschutes has a history of rape, assault & theft, was deported as an illegal once (but the underlying conviction for rape was mislabeled as to degree–he had plead down), and he illegally re-entered, racking up more crimes.
Can anyone verify (Beejay?) he got that immigration hearing after Nov 2010 and was deported? Doubtless He’s back anyway.
Did he know Rudy?
110 connections these days
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jamie-estrada/7/b5/851?_mSplash=1
I am imagining something and want to hear what your thoughts are:
Let’s pretend that the civil case in in session, and TH is forced or has chosen to be on the witness stand (IDK how, just pretending here). What questions and answers between TH and the prosecution would implicate her of a crime? How would her answers wrt the alleged MFH plot implicate her in Kyron’s case, and vise versa? What could TH possibly say to incriminate herself if she is completely innocent? I don’t get it, ugh.
I really tend to think that the MFH is a he said, she said btwn. RS and TH, lacking enough evidence to bring forth any charges. Or perhaps bringing the MFH to trial would mess up any prosection in Kyron’s case? All the legalities give me a headache, maybe one of you can explain one case affects the other.
PS If tgat was our Anselmo the DOJ was attempting to deport under this Admin’s stepped up enforcement of violent felons, I don’t think he was a “sting” participant let out of jail for the day of the sting. Also His record in tge Court case includes no drug busts. I suppose Rudy himself was the stingger. Why did MCSO think she’d talk to him when she’d called 911 on him repeatedly?
@Blink. Was Staton untruthful to CNN?
“never seen leaving the school”
“last seen inside the school”
“no evidence of an abduction”
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/oregon.missing.boy/index.html
no.
B
lyla says:
July 27, 2012 at 8:07 pm
@Idahogal
@cd “Good point, I have not physically heard her say one word, ever. It has all been in writing or said via the media from various people and sources, IIRC.”
————————————————————-
I don’t believe Terri has ever spoken publicly. Houze has probably told her to keep her mouth zipped and for good reason. I personally do not have any reason to believe either KH or DY are not being truthful about Terri’s personality. I’m not a shrink but I have definitely had people in my life who did not have the capacity to be truthful. It’s unfortunate KH chose to marry a women he did not know well. TH is looking out for #1…herself. moo
God bless Kyron and those close to him.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-Horman-master-of-deception-108218104.html
———–
Im not saying Desiree and Kaine are not being truthful when they say TH has lied to them in the past. Although I think Kaine tends to paint the worst possible picture of TH whenever he gets a chance. I just think its a long stretch from Th may have lied to Desiree and Kaine in the past to TH is a pathological liar and has some sort of a psychiatric problem that causes hr to lie about everything.
So if Staton’s statements are true, he was seen by more than one witness with a stranger male inside the school with at least one witness hearing him being asked to do ? (Desiree’s listening to adults gone awry), but Kyron was not seen in the moment of physical departure or, per Staton, outside.
“No evidence of an abduction?” Well then, why is it considered criminal case? I’m beginning to go back to the theory that Kyron wandered out into the woods and was taken by that same bear that was lurking around the other elementary school a few months after Kyron disappeared. Looking forward to an update here, and for heaven sake, something from LE.
Rose says: July 27, 2012 at 7:07 pm
“Instead LE made a leap of faith–in Rudy? in Kaine? in Tiny? in Desiree?”
Rose, who is Tiny?
Thanks
@Rose says:
July 28, 2012 at 11:46 am
“the way I skim it, a Fed Distr Judge in Portland dismissed, rightfully imo, the 3 count indictment of Anselmo on which he’d been detained. The indictment would have allowed deportation without a hearing. So presumeably he was released into the community Nov 18, 2010 awaiting that hearing. The dude from Deschutes has a history of rape, assault & theft, was deported as an illegal once (but the underlying conviction for rape was mislabeled as to degree–he had plead down), and he illegally re-entered, racking up more crimes.
Can anyone verify (Beejay?) he got that immigration hearing after Nov 2010 and was deported? Doubtless He’s back anyway.
Did he know Rudy?”
.
—————————————————————–
A S-S fwiw. I read early on in this case (june 2010) on another blog A S-S was seen in TH’s truck at the school on June 4th. Didn’t know what to make of it and I found Blinks site. I thought B said he was incarcerated at the time Kyron disappeared and that his description did not fit SZ. Maybe Blink can fill us in and or tell me I’m fos
Latest OregonLive article. Still bugs me that you have to scour their website to find out if they’ve added anything. I found this one by accident looking at another story. Maybe they will add it to some sort of list later to make it easier to find. I didn’t see anything new.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/07/kyron_hormans_father_kaine_hor_2.html#incart_hbx
@cd – I haven’t forgotten about the pathological lying issue. I’m working on explaining more about what led me in that direction, but it is taking a really long time to go back and find all the links, etc. I understand why anyone would hesitate to say she lies when it is all secondhand information. It just seems to me that if you put together enough secondhand information from enough different sources over a period of time and with regard to a variety of circumstances, a pattern begins to emerge – not proof of criminal behavior, but enough to warrant a request for a psychological exam in a custody matter, for example.
Mental health issues require as much detective work, IMO, as criminal issues – just of a different sort. People are unlikely to walk in and say, “Hi, I’m a pathological liar and I need treatment.” More likely, someone says, “My life is falling apart, and I need help.”
Then you need to help them figure out why.
@january. oops, typo. Tony. Belief in the suspicions of
rivals without corroborating evidence is a
leap of faith theory imo.