Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
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@TRuth. I don’t think that KH interview was before the final DUI & rehab or whatever.
KH being Holm
just glanced at Guidestar
http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/27-3291828/kyron-horman-foundation.aspx
Here it is also called The Kyron Horman Foundation.
(I thought, I guess erroneously, it was formerly called the Bring Kyron Home Foundation on Guidestar.
Norhing more recent than 2010 tax statement.
http://www.freep.com/article/20121020/NEWS07/121020006/Boy-Scout-sexual-abuse-files-released-to-public?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/20/14571413-police-missing-oregon-womans-remains-found-neighbor-arrested?lite
Tragic. RIP Whitney.
If Ky is deceased and his body located would there be an arrest(s)?
@TRuth. befuddled today. I wrote the opposite of my intent. Kim’s statements were pre-rehab , and I agree with cd not to be put thru a sieve. And, who know where she heard the appointment thing? Could’ve been school rumor stemming from Ms Porter’s statements to LE. I don’t think LE kept parents separated in the school halls that first weekend as they plowed through interviewing attendees. Imo all those interviews were probably tainted for a criminal trial by cominging in the halls waiting to be called in. example: a fellow room parents leaves interview. Prior to my interview, I ask her, well, what did he ask YOU? What do they know so far? etc. Can’t you hear the talk in the halls among the interviewed parents & staff, amidst all the volunteers and helpers & searchers initially there too, as they cross paths coming & going?
lyla says:
October 20, 2012 at 1:14 pm
If Ky is deceased and his body located would there be an arrest(s)?
———–
I think there would only be an arrest if there was some evidence near or on the body that pointed to a perpetrator. IMO I think it would be possible that DNA might point to someone if it survived the passage of time. OR maybe finger prints. I know from the Caylee Anthony trial that by the time they found her remains all of the evidence was gone due to the length of time it took to find her remains and animals disturbing the corpse.
I read somewhere that LE has so little evidence against TH that even if she confessed to kidnapping KY they still would not have enough evidence to prosecute her in a court of law.
all JMO
So many coincidences!
——–
1) I would also note that Ms. Holm holds zero credibility with me whatsoever, and that is being intentionally generous.
B
2) Kim Holm, supposed “friend” of Terri’s was really quick to publically announce Porter saying she thought Kyron had a Dr. Appointment, AND quickly pointed to Terri’s possible involvement.
3) Kurtis, Kim Holm’s son, went bowling with the Horman’s a couple days before Kyron went missing.
4) Kurtis, also did his project on the Red-eyed Tree Frog. I believe it was set up right next to Kyron’s and, without help it appears, didn’t hold a candle to Kyrons exhibit. Kim Holms husband died in a motor cycle accident the year before.. Resentment toward the family?
5) Kim Holm lives almost next door to Jim Kelley who reported the suspecious white truck sightings.
6) Avery Villarreal, Kim Holm’s older son (Satan’s Spawn) Scary Dude!
7) Ann Pumala, relitive of family (Aunt?)lived on, but left Sauvie Island following the disappearance of Kyron.
8) Oh yeah, then there were those “slips” during a presser where LE kept saying Holm instead of Horman.
9) What else?
I mentioned this briefly earlier, but 3 of my (short) posts are still in moderation so I tried not to repeat previous references. When I think about Kyron’s case and all the criticism/doubts we’ve had about the job MCSO has done (or not done), I just can’t help but feel a jaw-dropping amazement at the comparison to the resolution of this case. If you read any of the stories, you notice the flow of agencies coming in at various points to help as well as the communication between Gresham Police and the community. The church organized a search team that found evidence near Dodge Park, and the family’s search team found the missing license plate and other items on Larch Mountain. Early on, although I can’t find it in updated stories now, I believe it was reported that the family had hired someone to help search.
The thing is – how would these (non-LE) search teams know to go to these 2 areas if they had not gotten information from police about where the SUV had been (mud and grass always seems helpful)? It seems to me this has been a cooperative effort from the start rather than a “hands off” announcement. How can you help but wonder whether Kyron’s case could had different results with a different approach?
And (also in the story below) after so much thought about Houze and what he might do or say, I can’t help but notice the very last sentence below. How could they hold Holt until they got fingerprints and DNA sample if he apparently was not charged or arrested yet? Why didn’t he demand an attorney? Are technicalities going to be an issue in this case?
With all the inconsistencies in his answers in several interviews and the amount of evidence they’ve found connecting him to the case, he can’t possibly have been thinking he was innocent. It seems to me that either he thought being arrested was inevitable or he has limited mental functioning in some way. Wonder if he has a juvenile record?
http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2012/10/post_14.html#incart_river
By Everton Bailey Jr., The Oregonian
on October 19, 2012 at 10:01 PM, updated October 20, 2012 at 9:34 AM
Later that day, investigators found more of Heichel’s belongings in a trash bin at a nearby shopping center. Around the same time, they received information that the SUV had been driven into Clackamas County soon after her disappearance.
Junginger said a search team organized by the Heichel family’s church found “additional evidence” late Tuesday near Dodge Park, but he would not elaborate.
At that point, he said, the Multnomah County major crimes team and the Oregon State Police got involved in the investigation.
Wednesday, officers began searching the Heichels’ apartment complex and obtained surveillance video. They also began searching Dodge Park, Junginger said.
Meanwhile, the family’s search team found a license plate and other “items of interest” on Larch Mountain, he said. So authorities began to search there as well.
Thursday, detectives kept searching Larch Mountain and found more of Heichel’s belongings, apparently from her SUV, the police chief said.
They also interviewed Holt again and found many inconsistencies with his responses in his first interview, Junginger said. Police took DNA samples and fingerprints from Holt before they allowed him to leave.
—————————
So – would Kaine and Desiree have been fingerprinted when they did their polygraphs, just for reference if evidence turned up and/or to separate their prints from others possibly in the pick-up or on other items? Terri has prints from her DUI, and I’m assuming Tony has prints from being hired as LE. Just thinking back about what we’ve said about not securing the school as a crime scene – adults, and especially kids, touch everything they come near, but you have to wonder if there would have been a print that was unknown or out of place (wild examples – inside of boiler room door or a broom closet). Would all that checking have taken time? Yes – but with a simple move of kids for a week or 2, they’d have had all summer.
I can’t really compare the 2 crimes in these cases, but I certainly can’t help comparing the local investigative procedures/styles. The list of agencies involved in Kyron’s case makes it seem the scope was much larger, but then IF the scope really was larger, and they knew that from the beginning or else why add more agencies, then why did so many more resources focused on so many more possibilities not yield more information? Either the (unnecessary?) complexity of the investigation overshadowed the true simplicity of the case, or it’s all somehow “top secret,” or a textbook case of incompetence.
When you look at it this way, the civil case becomes more like a knight in shining armor approaching on a white horse. The question is: Who is the enemy?
@Lyla. Imo they were hoping the body or crime scene would yield enough evidence to tie in Terri.
They have never needed a body to bring felony charges, and most likely conspiracy too if another was involved.
If there were enough evidence to persuade a reasonable juror (and it didn’t persuade the grand jury), a kidnapping charge would’ve been filed long ago. Imo they’re hoping to jail her on perjury at this point, which is why she has to keep her mouth shut with everyone everywhere. Imo etc.
Hi Blink,
The post following this went through from last night. But this below is still in moderation? It’s an
interview by Olive with DY/KH. Very early in it, immediately in fact, Kaine states that his Poly was on the weekend of June 5th/6th. He is corrected by DY and then states that his poly was Tuesday, after TMH’s on
Monday.
So the family poly’s were taken very early. And by Tuesday evening TY already has his “two strikes” against TMH.
It’s in response to Rose’s question.
BTW. Watching Gresham do it’s work this week makes me wonder even more about MCSO. Gresham started with and pursued this case of Whitney as a criminal case from the get go. So did LE in Colorado, even though they were “behind the eight ball” with the same 6hour deficit. Gresham also accepted the aid of the church. Staton wouldn’t let anyone help with Kyron’s abduction. And even though he was told by family that he wouldn’t wander that’s exactly how MCSO treated this case.
When two Major organizations, PPS and MCSO, are being held to a microscope and the world is asking for answers….well, it’s awfully easy, IMO, to find a scapegoat rather than admit errors. Neither PPS nor MCSO has apologized and/or admitted any wrongdoing whatsoever. And even if TMH is the perp, they still need to answer to their mistakes….like losing the Day one tech log-ins…for a start.
October 20, 2012 at 2:10 am
@Rose
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/terri_hormans_emails_to_kyron.html
This interview with K and DY was early. In it, at the very beginning, DY and KH state that TMH”s interview was Monday…Kaine’s was Tuesday…of the first week following the abduction.
OT….very, very sad about our Gresham girl, Whitney. Such a sweet girl, and beautiful family.
10) Kim Holm, soccer coach
As I remember Kim had drinking problems
Older kid problems
Had lost her husband
I neverI understood if she went to th SF and
Left or what or came later
I maybe wrong but I thought she was on the list
At any rate I got the impression things were out of control at her place
MockingbirdSings says:
October 19, 2012 at 2:21 pm
mas says:
October 19, 2012 at 9:32 am
Facts: Kaine was having an affair before Kyron’s disappearance, Kaine began sleeping with a volunteer at the home less than 1 week after Terri moved out.
———————-
@mas and Blink – do we know these 2 statements to be fact – and if so, do we know the names of those 2 people (same or different)?
——————–
Blink – just wondering if you will have information about this in your article 2 or 3? And still wondering where this information came from. I read rumors about an affair (unconfirmed) in some of the comments after online news stories, but I had not heard about a volunteer and Kaine later on. It may or may not matter to the case – if it doesn’t, then I am not concerned about Kaine’s private life.ew
I am aware of the rumors about KH and more than one volunteer. I have no plans to discuss them whatsoever as they have nothing to do with locating Ky or any potential suspects.
B
Kaine’s sexual life may not have anything to do with locating Kyron, but it does show his character, or lack thereof. It may also point to the quality of people he hangs around. Terri’s “sexting” sure hit the newsstands quickly. I remember going hmmm when I read about Terri. Thinking how could she be doing such a thing when Kyron is so newly missing? How is Kaine having sex with volunteers any different? Why wasn’t Kaine’s habits looked at more closely? IMHO, Newsstands should have had duel headlines: “Terri Horman sexting, and Kaine Horman is having sex with volunteers!” Poor Kid!
—————–
MockingbirdSings says: October 20, 2012 at 11:29 pm
Kaine was having an affair before Kyron’s disappearance, Kaine began sleeping with a volunteer at the home less than 1 week after Terri moved out.
Blink says:
I am aware of the rumors about KH and more than one volunteer. I have no plans to discuss them whatsoever as they have nothing to do with locating Ky or any potential suspects.
B
January, this is rumor. I do agree that Kaine’s relationships as they might have related to any possible motivations for abducting or harming Ky were and should have been relevant.
B
B
Tanner’s aunt.
snip>
7) Ann Pumala, relitive of family (Aunt?)lived on, but left Sauvie Island following the disappearance of Kyron.
Rose says:
October 20, 2012 at 6:22 pm
@Lyla. Imo they were hoping the body or crime scene would yield enough evidence to tie in Terri.
They have never needed a body to bring felony charges, and most likely conspiracy too if another was involved.
If there were enough evidence to persuade a reasonable juror (and it didn’t persuade the grand jury), a kidnapping charge would’ve been filed long ago. Imo they’re hoping to jail her on perjury at this point, which is why she has to keep her mouth shut with everyone everywhere. Imo etc.
————-
IMO Don’t you have to be sworn in somewhere as in court or grand jury to be charged with perjury. I have never heard that TH gave any sworn testimony other the the threat of using her 5th amendment rights if she was ask to give sworn testimony. I don’t think its perjury if you lie to LE or mislead the media.
@Lyla. Imo they were hoping the body or crime scene would yield enough evidence to tie in Terri.
They have never needed a body to bring felony charges, and most likely conspiracy too if another was involved.
If there were enough evidence to persuade a reasonable juror (and it didn’t persuade the grand jury), a kidnapping charge would’ve been filed long ago. Imo they’re hoping to jail her on perjury at this point, which is why she has to keep her mouth shut with everyone everywhere. Imo etc.
———-
IMO I think LE is waiting for TH to get relaxed enough to become emboldened and contact a conspirator or have a few drinks in a bar some night and reveal more then she intended to. Maybe she would just tell all to someone she has met or started a new relationship with that she trusted enough to tell her secrets to
. It’s very difficult to keep a secret as big as the one they think she is keeping forever. LE is waiting now and they are going to keep watching/waiting until TH slips up and reveals something she does not want to or LE finds a better suspect.
Regarding:
@mas and Blink – do we know these 2 statements to be fact – and if so, do we know the names of those 2 people (same or different)?
********
2 different women and is a fact (from the volunteer’s mouth to my ears). The reason that I believe it to be relevant is Kaine didn’t feel the need to put his sexual life on hold while his son was missing and the ending of his marriage. But Terri was ripped to shreds for sexting? Desiree has been under the microscope with her past relationships, so why not Kaine?
The volunteer had been vocal (to several people) that she believed Kaine was hiding a check that may be relevant to Kyron’s disappearance.
mas- respectfully, you know better. I am well aware of the rumors, have been for some time, and unless you were an eyewitness to the acts in question or possess video of same, it is not fact. It is hearsay.
Watercooler pastime and has no place here. Not picking on you, I am not going to moderate the dozens of posts which will inevitably follow as a result.
I am on the record with my scrutiny over the whole Cook sexting mess as well and that was an entirely more convincing argument.
I can promise you this, in the next few months, as the divorce proceeding nears as well as the civil case, that those ladies and Kaine will all find themselves answering similar questions under oath if it should be probative to the issues or impeachable to a witness.
B
CD, agreed, my lay understanding is perjury is knowingly making a false statement under oath,
and I’m willing to bet any statement Terri would make under oath would be called material by the DA.
that’s why her attorneys have represented she cannot testify in the 2 civil suits, or
contest the RO, and why she cannot give a deposition, which many have complained about.
DA would have to prove knowing falsehood from a second source, ie her emails.
imo Her emails & social media writings or any public or private comment to family and friends
that plaintiff attorneys get wind of can be used to open up lines of questioning in a deposition
of those to whom she made it, which is my guess as to why gofundme’s Kelly
may have been told to cease personal stories attributed to bio. imo.
It seems to me Terri’s Counsel would have a difficult time raising KH’s affairs if any prior to abduction in any action but particularly the divorce and RO because they would be the best evidence to nail Terri in the criminal case and RO as motivation. So the very evidence that ought to help her in a divorce functions as the converse, what she doesn’t want the Court to hear about. Of course lots of men have affairs and wives don’t whack their kids. So that tells me evidence piece no 2 has to be the PPD. But unless a doctor diagnosed psychotic thinking (delusions, hallucinations) along with the depression, what good does PPD standing alone do?
That makes me think and theorize though. I do not think Terri would trade her home & regular husband’s paycheck for a share of the home as an inheritance and a cut of insurance policies. So I think it a reasonable guess Kaine had initiated divorce talk: an intent to divorce as he did with Desiree, and an intent to use her recent medical history to take custody and prevent child support & alimony. Now, the greatest motivator to me would not be adultery of Kaine, nor divorce, but the intent to use her PPD to take Kiara. So Kaine’s deposition questions about his actual discussions with Terri about ending the marriage and Kiara’s custody are of interest. Does anyone think the first time he met with a divorce lawyer re Terri was after the mfh?
I know, Blink, my apologies. I normally don’t comment on rumors, but this one got to me! What’s good for the goose, sort of thing. Sorry
—–
January, this is rumor. I do agree that Kaine’s relationships as they might have related to any possible motivations for abducting or harming Ky were and should have been relevant.
B
a prime example of a person having many affairs disrupting the family, but Mom’s response is to nurture and separate by divorce the son, is S Cook. Adultery is motive for a divorce but not whacking her son, without more. That’s why Kaine’s claims of daily drunkenness affecting child care, and PPD, are absolutely critical to his case imo. Terri already proved her ability to separate out James from the household in his best interests.’
mas, if a Meyer receipt showed lime for example, I think that proves nothing standing alone. Kaine could’ve said “honey pick up x for the yard while you have the truck.” Or, rat poison. More likely if OR is like ME & VA, could’ve been alcohol you hint at.’
I guess, come to think of it, drunken wives don’t often kill kids either.
Neglect differs from homicide.
IMO, Kaine has been out there keeping Kyron’s name in the public (or at least trying) nearly every weekend for over two years. It may not bring Kyron home (hopefully it will), but at least he’s not in hiding. I think that speaks to his character more than the gossip does. I do understand questioning actions, and I have no idea if Kaine’s previous actions factored in Kyron’s dissapearance, but I have to commend him for keeping Kyron’s name, face, story out there.
@MockingbirdSings says:
October 20, 2012 at 5:21 pm
Your post makes wonder more than ever, if there was someone who was pushing LE in Kyron’s case in the direction they ultimately went. The cases are very different, but you are absolutely right, something was amiss in Kyron’s investigation from the get go. No crime scene established, no record retention.
I think back on Staton’s comments to the County Commissioners (I think it was) about nothing to make us think we were on the wrong track or some such. Almost sounds like there was another track they could have been on, had they only gone in another direction. Makes me wonder about the school records and why it took so long for LE to even ask for them, so long that they were already gone. Who was pushing LE to go after Terri Horman?
I don’t think LE would have been so enticed to travel down that path if it had just been a jilted ex-wife or a disgruntled husband, saying take a look at the stepmom before you bother with anyone else. IMO, it almost would have to be one of these two, officials from the school contradicting TMH or, some other LE personnel, maybe even, Tony Young. Thought provoking, MbS, for sure.
@January says:
October 20, 2012 at 5:10 pm
Jan, Kurtis’s project was on the red-eyed tree frog, but his project was in the back/front? of the room directly behind mystery goatee man. Tanner’s project was next on the desk next to Kyron, it was on a pond turtle.
What else? Let’s not forget that Kim Holm also made a statement in her interview that she was not there that day, yet her name appears on the task force list as being there. (Could be she just meant she wasn’t at the science fair, but was at the school for some other reason later on, still makes one go hmmmmm?)
You really got me thinking MbS, perhaps we need a list of what LE should have done and didn’t. Then, we can maybe figure out why they didn’t do whatever it was they should’ve or would’ve ordinarily done. IDK, I’m not smart enough and don’t follow enough crime cases to have that kind of information, but I’m sure someone here does.
I suppose there’s some kind of procedure for this sort of thing, isn’t there? Like, maybe A.) Shut the barn door. LOL
VLH, True, Kaine has been holding events to keep Kyron’s name out there,, you’re absolutely correct. Although , IMO, Terri’s actions, her sbsequent silence, and her hiring a high-profile attorney, have done more to keep Kyrons case in the public’s eye. If it were not for the press taking keen interest in her supposed MFH plot, and sexting, this case would have been long forgotten. I check in often on other cases and see months pass without comment. If it were not for the dysfunctional idiocyricies of this family, little Kyron’s memory may have faded by now. I am not saying that Terri does what she does to help Kyon, but nonetheless , I say keep the crazy stories coming. If and/or when LE decides to correct assumption s with facts, well that will be even better! BTW, i wonder when Desiree’s case will start.
@mas. I think what Blink is saying is it would go to general character but not to the abduction (at least “after” ladies, “before” ladies better worry about motive too). And adulterous character really has zero to do with the abduction. Terri’s sexting had objective cooperation accepted by a Judge, wisely or not, and Blink did process its worth. At least now I can think those uber-involved Intel-originating (FOK) early volunteer leadership women, one who started the website with sales, dropped out for a watercooler reason, not suspicion of Kaine. I guess those adultery stories, Tarver, Ecker, etc were because Kaine’s family/friends kept their mouths shut as he asked. Except for Desiree.
Ridgeway is an example where a custody
battle & multiple partners/kids (Dad) had zero to do with abduction
or his heartfelt loss. And imo
people probably stay in character with addictions after losz.
Hopefully, the check was reported to LE.
goog idea TRuth, except perhaps mcso had its challenges or were outside say Gresham’s or Portland’s investigative and/or management norm pre-abduction. We don’t know their baseline. We do know their lead detectives lacked experience with this type crime.
“objective corroboration”, not cooperation, on the sexting thing
It may be pertinent to find out who (in the Horman friend and associates circle) was dating whom on 6/4/10. We could start with KimH.
So far investigators have identified 490 people who were at the Northwest Portland school between 8 a.m. and noon June 4 the day Kyron disappeared.
The school sent a letter home, along with the names of those identified. It is asking people to notify the task force if they think
A)someone’s missing from the list or
B)wasn’t there and shouldn’t be on it.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/111702724.html
IIRC a local poster (neighbor?) said that Holm was in and out of the school on a regular basis, fwiw. This investigative question seems to be objectively phrased. Initially, I thought the question was asked to establish whether or not TH was there, and/or her daughter, then wondered if a man was there, and not on the list. Maybe it was being asked because someone (ie Holm) claims to be there but no one recalls seeing her, thus her alibi is uncorroborated.
But on further thought, perhaps not an “either or” question at all. Maybe it was both. SZ was not on the list, and someone on the list lied about being there.
Additionally, choice: B) wasn’t there and shouldn’t be on it. The only way for sure to say someone is “not somewhere” (at least a crowded somewhere) is to have knowledge about there whereabouts. IOW, if you said I am sure so and so was not at the SF, you would have to *know* where they were.
@No. 9 January,
From your listing regarding Kim Holm, do you think that she or one of her family had something to do wit Ky’s disappearance?
What would her reason be to point the finger at Terri? Was she close to KH?
Agreed.
Jden says:
October 21, 2012 at 7:10 pm
Well maybe this volunteer could take pics
Of her and Kaine, she needs to back up the talk
I don’t like most things about Kaine but I hate what
Happens when rumors go wild
So thanks to Blink this is still the best place on the
Internet to discuss cases
However if there is some Check having to do with Kyron’s
Disappearing LE better know about it
someone else may have checked this out, but is there any connection between her and that houseboat at Sauvie Island where the cadaver dogs found a death scent? And the guy who owned the houseboat — has he since sold it and moved elsewhere? Harmon??
Are any of these connected — also wondering if Kim’s husband that died – if he knew TMH in particular or both KH and TMH?
@erose says:October 21, 2012 at 4:01 am
Tanner’s aunt.
snip>
7) Ann Pumala, relitive of family (Aunt?)lived on, but left Sauvie Island following the disappearance of Kyron.
July 8, 2010
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.html
“I thought the marriage was doing pretty well,” Kaine Horman said during a one-on-one interview with The Oregonian, “until we had our daughter, Kiara.”
Horman said he thought his marriage to Terri Moulton Horman fractured within six months after she gave birth in November 2008, the result of postpartum depression.
Terri Horman was put on medication for the depression, and her doctor told Kaine to keep an eye on her to make sure she was OK, he said. But she wasn’t OK.
“She’s had a lot of emotional outbursts,” he said. “I think it’s still with her. I don’t know if it’s postpartum or something else.”
July 8 2010
http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-983-kaine_horman_kyrons_stepmom_suffered_post_partum_d.html
Kaine Horman filed for divorce and a restraining order on June 28 citing alleged plans by Terri Moulton Horman to have him killed. He told WW the illness came on after the birth of their daughter Kiara 19 months ago and lasted well over a year.
“As far as I’m concerned, probably up until a month or two before Kyron was gone — and then she could have been hiding it at that point,” Kaine Horman said.
He said the illness manifested in rapid mood swings.
“It wasn’t anything that was overly violent in nature,” Horman said. “It was just really erratic types of swings, from being very emotional to suddenly being very frustrated.”
Horman said he’s not sure what type of medication his wife was on or when she stopped taking it.
“I was just supposed to watch her closely for a six-month period, which I did do,” he said. “And after the six months, things seemed to be OK.”
July 16, 2010:
http://www.katu.com/news/98654424.html
KATU: Was Terri bi-polar, either diagnosed or not? Was she on medication at any point for mental health issues?
Kaine: Not that I am aware of but that would be between Terri and her Doctor.
************
So in early July he reports that he not only knows she’s taking medication for some sort of mental problem, but he admits he is at the very least *asked* to keep an eye her. Then, oddly, by mid-July he tells the reporter, I don’t know anything about any medication that might have to do with mental health? WTH? Sorry guys, but this is what bothers me about Kaine Horman. The man is simply not being truthful. He either knew or he didn’t, she either was or she wasn’t. There is absolutely nothing IMO complicated about the question(s) he’s being asked and yet he seems to turn them into vague, mumbo jumbo answers.
Agreed
B
T. Ruth says:
October 21, 2012 at 5:47 pm
You really got me thinking MbS, perhaps we need a list of what LE should have done and didn’t. Then, we can maybe figure out why they didn’t do whatever it was they should’ve or would’ve ordinarily done. IDK, I’m not smart enough and don’t follow enough crime cases to have that kind of information, but I’m sure someone here does. I suppose there’s some kind of procedure for this sort of thing, isn’t there? Like, maybe A.) Shut the barn door. LOL
———————–
@T.Ruth – Thanks for the chuckle. I cannot imagine having a job like that without a ton of procedures to follow and a department checklist. It does seem, though, like they skipped page 1, doesn’t it.
@RedRose, My understanding is Ann Pumala was once Steve Harmon’s stepdaughter. IIRC she and her brother (Brian, Tanner’s father) spent some of their childhood (teen years?) growing up on that houseboat. Their mother lives in AZ with her new husband, which could explain Ann’s move. Wendy Fuhrer is Tanner’s maternal grandmother, and was a neighbor of the Hormans.
Thanks, erose – having trouble keeping all of these people sorted out.
Really am hoping they find Kyron soon; often wonder if that could have happened especially after reading how quickly they found Whitney the other day.
@erose says:October 22, 2012 at 12:00 am
mas says:
October 19, 2012 at 9:32 am
So, I think Kyron was not specifically targeted for anything to do with his parents/caregivers. I think he was taken by opportunity.
There is someone out there that took Kyron and my suspect list is:
Dave Stensen
Dave Durham
The man at the court in blue shirt (unidentified)
————-
Dave Stensen
Dave Durham
The man at the court in blue shirt (unidentified)
Jim Kelley – lived next door to Kyrons friend Kurtis.
JMO
@TRuth, Mbs, and all,
Kind of dovetailing off your last posts, I would be interested in any theories in why so many agencies were involved. Why, for example, Clackamas Co DA MCT (major crimes team?)?
Q: Can we have the list of law enforcement agencies that have assisted in the Kyron Horman investigation?
Gresham Police, Fairview Police, Troutdale Police, Portland Police, Port of Portland Police, Clackamas County Sheriff’s Office, Clackamas County DA MCT, Multnomah County DA’s investigators, Washington County District Attorney’s Office, Washington County Sheriff’s Office, Gladstone Police, Oregon City Police, Milwaukie Police, Canby Police, Lake Oswego Police, West Linn Police, Vancouver Police, Hillsboro Police, Beaverton Police, FBI, DEA, ICE, Secret Service, DOD Defense Criminal Investigative Services, Oregon DOJ, Oregon State Police.
This list does not include search and rescue resources.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/mcso_progress_continues_in_sea.html
@truth…
“….I don’t think LE would have been so enticed to travel down that path if it had just been a jilted ex-wife or a disgruntled husband, saying take a look at the stepmom before you bother with anyone else. IMO, it almost would have to be one of these two, officials from the school contradicting TMH or, some other LE personnel, maybe even, Tony Young. Thought provoking, MbS, for sure.”
This, well…moment of transverse…is the key to the this investigation, IMO. In fact, if you look at the interview prior to the MFH…on Friday, the 25th I believe…DY and KY are asked in their KGW interview if TMH is cooperating. There was no faking their responses to the affirmative. KH had not been informed, yet, of the “MFH”. But the next day, KH would take Kiara, file a RO, get a lawyer, file for divorce (not sure of the order) and by Monday it’s a fait accompli.
How can that happen within hours? And with the “sting” not only a bust, but with TMH telling KH in an email that ” I love you but this is ridiculous….etc”
And it was then and only then that DY and KH started to retract and re-vision the “cooperative” nature of TMH. Who, btw, was the one on FB coordinating with dozens if not hundreds of “friends” …. who had, probably, herself, designed and coordinated the t-shirts, posters, and distribution of such.
Not saying TMH wasn’t “odd” in her lack of “connects” with people…insecure, narcissitic, add???
Nor that she wasn’t her own worst enemy as far as the impetuous “sexting” was involved.
But point is….the “revisioning” of Kaine and Desire’s immediate and past history with TMH was precipitated by what LE was presenting them with…first the MFH, and then the “hateful emails”.
Evidence enough to get them on the bandwagon. And evidence enough to deflect from the what should have been staring them straight in their “search-n-rescue” faces….that this was, possibly, an abducted/murdered child search and NOT a missing child (i.e. seek the most likely parent) case.
By the time they realized that they were barking up the wrong tree (and Skyline parents were getting scared) they had to re-group. TMH fit the bill. Wasn’t getting with the program.
Whether she was really lying to the Poly peeps and/or LE, or whether she was just frustrated, stressed and stretched to the nth degree (and maybe wanted them ALL outta her house) we might never know.
But one thing for sure…MCSO is no Gresham Police Department. They are “top-down” all the way. Why should the Skyline neighborhood hundreds of volunteers get into the search for Kyron? They knew what they were doing…and forbad it.
All imho. But I think it was the other way around. Except for TY and his “instincts” I don’t think that DY nor KH had any real suspicions until the end of the second week. Now…TY…sharing in the same house with the live-in LE (Shutts?) and were the polys taken in that house too? Seems like a conflict of interest if LE was starting to suspect TMH by Monday night.
I agree vw. Specifically to your point at what seemed like the “difference a day made” I can tell you what it was. Rudy Sanchez was identified, located, and a warrant for the infamous flop sting was granted.
It is likely in that 3rd week the cell records were returned from those subpoenas as to the texts, etc.
(Note: if texts exist between TH and RS, and I have my doubts they were reproducable if “real” in the first place, they had to be on someone’s phone yet- otherwise I submit that was a bluff. MCSO had access to anything and everything, I think TH knew it was inevitable the RS issue would surface)
They absolutely believed if she could entice a landscaper to off her hubby it was either in conjunction with a plan to do same with Ky, or that matter was the ruse hiding the latter.
I call it “instacase” syndrome. They were not alone. As I have said before I am aware of FBI assets telling witnesses TH was a suspect. I admit that could have been tactical as to the witness, but certainly in retrospect- unwise.
Which brings me to the same dang spot I always land. Immunity for any and everything related to the mfh.
Never happen because if they take that off the table, this is the 2 year, multimillion dollar firehose.
B
Cindy says: October 21, 2012 at 8:11 pm
Cindy, I don’t know if anyone from Kim Holm’s family is responsible or knows anything about Kyron. I just find the multitude of coincidences alarming.