Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
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It has occurred to me it is the Portland teachers’ union that retained attorneys for staff at Skyline, not PPS.
An article in OLive yesterday highlights that union’s power as local govt PPS walks away from a $40 million grant.
So Imo it is the Union’s local power which ensures PPS and its employees will never be a suit joinder nor seriously deposed.
Shocking info erose on joinder of BSA & LDS interests in charters of troops, locally & nationally.
@erose. If Sam Adams partner was an OLive reporter taking on child sex abuse in BSA & LDS, why did Adams tweet a “who is he?” photo. Why not just let his partner freelance the query? Or write on it.
An example of Adams relating to Sullivan (Union) previously, many negative comments: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf/2012/05/crisis_delayed_city_school_dis.html
So, Kyron’s investigation needs to be Federal, imo.
Yes, I’m all up and have to say this site has been running like a well oiled machine. That 4G served us well. Hope life is returning to normal where ever possible for all affected and someone turns the power switch back on.
Thanky, has been an ordeal, but we are luckier than most.
B
Yes Rose, I think Eagle is right about the union, and I think that could be Stanton might be referring to that surprises us. Before this, I would be surprised that a school could hinder an investigation of a child that went missing on their watch.
Regarding James’ name change, I’m thinking about what might’ve been on TMH’s mind about what was HERS— no shared property rights, but James belonged to her. IMO, it was possibly something KH repeatedly brought up. So, to set James apart as Hers, she changes his name to her maiden name, possibly foreshadowing her future course: independence from KH. I’d imagine she was possibly met with some dominance arguments as well as “her fair share”…
On another issue: I would think that her parents, who from what I’ve read had been visiting that week from Roseburg, would’ve had a pretty good clue about the home dynamics. Both retired educators, they would’ve seen their shared of hinky home issues. As a retired admin, Papa Moulton, who seems to be a caretaker-detail guy ( authoring historical books on mills and old school sites— just google)— he would, or should have noticed untowardness in the household & hints dropped by his daughter.
No idea these days what to think. Was Ky stolen & is being kept off the grid? Is this a nasty custody fight waged in the depths of technology ? I just keep coming back to the idea of a little boy lost— forever? Or stashed somewhere wondering why he’s in prison? Or victim of a bully out to right some familial wrongs after a discovered affair?
James is old enough to pick his last name
By now
So what ever he wants is probably his choise
I would guess he has been close to the Moultons
As their only grand son
Who are McFarlands
I missed out some how
@erose
(snipped)”Now DY is angry. She’s angry at TH, at DDS and even KH. Right or wrong, misplaced or not, I think that makes her normal.”
—————————————————————–
I agree with your entire post erose. I have my doubts DY’s civil suit will bring us any closer to finding Ky.
Blink
Portland OR is a nice place if you are getting tired of NJ weather
Honestly, it is some of the most beautiful land in the US- however, family is here.
Thanks for the invite though.
B
Re: reporting requirements for exempt organizations
The IRS has recently increased the threshold for nonprofit filing. An organization does not have to file a Form 990 (which is then required to be available for public viewing) until its gross RECEIPTS in a year exceed $50,000. The Kyron Horman Foundation filed a 990 e-postcard for 2011 stating that gross receipts for 2011 were less than $50,000. Carla Kellogg is listed as the principal officer.
I for one would be very curious to see the expenses for this nonprofit, but aside from curiosity I doubt it would help find Kyron. More telling would be to see if the clothes and toys KH bought are still in the house waiting for Kyron … or not.
Here is a link, should it work, to the information at IRS
http://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/displayEPostcard.do?dispatchMethod=displayEpostInfo&ePostcardId=1747392&ein=273291828&exemptTypeCode=&isDescending=false&totalResults=1&postDateTo=&ein1=&state=All…&dispatchMethod=searchEpostcard&postDateFrom=&country=US&city=&searchChoice=ePostcard&indexOfFirstRow=0&sortColumn=ein&resultsPerPage=25&names=kyron+horman&zipCode=&deductibility=all
Good question. IIRC, Adams was acting police commish, maybe trying to “help” (and clueless) and it was OLive that potentially covered his seat, if those tweets were out of line, by running that article about how the man was ID’d. Twitter was just starting to explode in 2010. I have wondered if Adams thought they were somewhat private.
IDK IDK IDK, but the connection to the BSA files, the push in Portland to release those file, and the release of Timur Van Dykes into that very community, which has been discussed here before, could be more than coincidence. And if not him, maybe someone just like him?
Timur Van Dykes, 53, was convicted in 1993 of 23 sex crimes against three young boys. He was sentenced to 18 years in prison and is now out on parole. Since his crimes became public, additional men have filed lawsuits accusing the former Boy Scout and church leader of sexual abuse.
Dykes, who formerly lived in Portland, now lists his residence as Lake Oswego. Police did not disclose the exact address.
http://www.oregonlive.com/lake-oswego/index.ssf/2009/12/sexual_predator_registers_with_lake_oswego_police.html
Rose says:
November 1, 2012 at 10:53 am
@Lyla, Agree…unfortunately.
@Malty, Rose linked an article a page or two back where Pyper McFarland stated her children saw Kyron at school on June 4th. She also coordinated the awareness bracelets for Kyron.
@Kat, Trying to follow the logic. How does changing the name from Ecker to Moulton gain independence from KH?
Nobody6 ever knows what goes on in a marriage except the people who are in it.
@Cindy says: November 1, 2012 at 9:38 am
Kyron’s parents would make a very interesting “social project”. The way that they are weaved together is/was functional yet dysfunctional. The children seemed happy with Terri as “mom”. Yet, what strings and emotions were tugged and pulled between these three adults, then add a few-ex husbands and we see up close the destruction of an American family.
see last listing
she’s been involved awhile
http://www.bizapedia.com/people/CARLA-KELLOGG.html
Thank you to an elsewhere poster for the info and court-link regarding a scheduled 3pm December 14 2012 Hearing Motion, re Young vs Horman.
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/pages/courtcalsearch.aspx
The linked site brings me no information on any upcoming scheduled hearing for KH’s case, though. Maybe family court cases are not available through this link, IDK.
I found this once before about Kellogg.
http://projects.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/springfieldextra/12203240-46/story.csp
Since she’s the Secr, one could write & ask her for a copy
of the yearly audit. To be honest, I think investigation trumps foundation goals & management.
The reverse of that is that if James became a legal “Horman”, he would legally belong to KH, and KH could legally take him away from TMH, too. –like he did the other/s.
TMH probably sensed this long before everything blew up in her face.
@Kat says:November 1, 2012 at 11:45 am
Regarding James’ name change, I’m thinking about what might’ve been on TMH’s mind about what was HERS— no shared property rights, but James belonged to her.
Blink, respectively, I have a question for you, if you can answer.
Of course just thinking about Kyron and the truck on Jim Kelly’s road at 3:00pm.
Do you know if anyone physically seen Kyron outside the school that morning?
Just an off the wall theory, is it possible Kyron was held in the school or on school grounds until the end of the school day? such as in the boiler room, shed by the soccer field or any other place until the SZ was done for the day at the school? I know last bell for Kyron’s grade level was 3:00pm but staff and room volunteers may leave prior to 3:00pm…….
Anyways, just wondering if any of your sources seen Kyron leaving the school or was it just inside the school?
@wpg says:
November 1, 2012 at 1:43 pm
Thanks for the link. Interstingly, the two attorneys listed (when you search via attorney) are Bunch/Rosenthal, no mention of Wagner.
I see zero for Rackner, and Houze, other cases.
@rose
Also, regarding the name changes and 911 calls. I’ll soon be able to find name-change docs. From what I remember the name change 1st request came around the time of first 911 call requested by Houze. December 17th. I think it took at least a month to go through the paperwork to get James’ name changed.
Regarding Ecker. Don’t know why he didn’t contact or visit James during those three years. Was he irreparably estranged with TMH or Kaine or both? IIRC there was regular contact before union of TMH and KH.
I think TMH was planning late 2009 to get James to Roseburg before the second semester started. PPS finishes their semester late January. Given that his education was something TMH was very concerned about I think she planned for him to live with her parents and the last name of Moulton would be just one more thing that would facilitate a smooth transition into a new school district before their 2nd semester got underway. JMO although the name change could have been a slap in the face at Kaine.
I’m still astounded that the car, the house, etc were all in Kaine’s name. I’d wondered why he was driving the mustang around after TMH left. Then I realized he would’ve had another reason to villify her if she took it to Roseburg. Which makes me wonder about that car? Why would he buy her a brand new car if she was drunk all the time…this soon after Kiara’s birth when she allledgedly was at her “craziest’?
Rose. Most of the “Esis Down…” alerts when teaching in my district, near Gresham, were due to a breakdown at the main center. Early in the days of esis, years before 6/4/10, there were problems at the schools. But later, once the program got up, what problems there were were generic throughout the district. I’ll ask the attendance person at my daughter’s school about Portland’s tendency to break down if I get a chance.
@Blink. Gotcha. The author is going to create a separate blog.
FWIW, there was an article in the Roseburg newspaper about the county fair and 4H kids and their livestock. (Back in Aug.) James and his step-brother were interviewed. James’ last name was listed as Tarver.
I did not post it then, because I think these kids should be left alone. Like, Malty said, James is old enough to know what he wants to go by. He seems to have bonded again with his bio-dad and his step mother seems to love him. So I say, good for James. I hope he does well in the military and stays safe.
Does this in any way mean he hates his mother or something, of course not, but I figured sure as heck if I post it, the anti’s will be using it for ammo.
The only reason I post it now, is it makes Ecker’s statement seem even more strange.
@redrose No, a name change is independent of adoption
and has no impact on inheritance and legal obligations
absent adoption.
Okay you guys, please explain to me how him going from Ecker to Moulton has anything to do with this? @RedRose, Are you saying KH wanted to change his name to Horman, so TH changed his name from Ecker to Moulton? I just don’t get it.
RedRose says:
November 1, 2012 at 1:50 pm
The reverse of that is that if James became a legal “Horman”, he would legally belong to KH, and KH could legally take him away from TMH, too. –like he did the other/s.
TMH probably sensed this long before everything blew up in her face.
@Kat says:November 1, 2012 at 11:45 am
Regarding James’ name change, I’m thinking about what might’ve been on TMH’s mind about what was HERS— no shared property rights, but James belonged to her.
Looks like James made Eagle Scout in January 2012. What an honor. I think he is a good kid. Looks like his unit leader is a Roseburg attorney. No innuendo intended, just info that might help us better figure out that BSA camp out he was on June 4th, and if it possibly tied in to Kyron’s disappearance.
http://www.otcbsa.org/our-council/oregon-trails-honor-roll/eagle-scouts/50116
http://www.roseburglaw.com/stephen-mountainspring.html
Rose says:
November 1, 2012 at 10:26 am
It has occurred to me it is the Portland teachers’ union that retained attorneys for staff at Skyline, not PPS.
An article in OLive yesterday highlights that union’s power as local govt PPS walks away from a $40 million grant.
So Imo it is the Union’s local power which ensures PPS and its employees will never be a suit joinder nor seriously deposed.
@rose
Of course. PT Union was there within minutes on Friday 6/4/10. Same with the School Adm. Union and PPS personal lawyers. Are you kidding? While Carol was telling the public on Sunday that all these new safeguards WILL BE required, lawyers were figuring out how the school would not be sued, how Porter would not be fired, how the district would forestall a MAJOR suit. I think Tanner was interviewed that very weekend. Kyron was seen in the school after TMH left and she got a receipt at FM within the so-called timeline. LE never questioned the 9:07 receipt. They, instead, added Dede to the equation. Till Dave Stenson challenged that timeline (and was subsequently “talked to” by LE).
All my not-so-humble-opinion, reading all the articles and comparing them to my experience in ed. But have not heard anything ever that convinces me otherwise. Just common sense. I’d do the same if I were an administer. Spin and deflect. What’s the other option? Get sued and/or agree that someone in my school could be an accomplice?
However, even if Keefer and the staff plead the 5th or are somehow immune to depo, they still have the parents. TMH might know who would be most likely to have seen Kyron and, under oath, they may go against the advise of LE which was, to the neighborhood, to NOT TALK about who they think might be involved.
@RedRose–exactly. That’s what I was thinking…she had no ownership in house,”gift” car, nothing to show for all she’d done—and looking at pictures, she’d tried to make a home/family. That pic of KH grabbing her inappropriately in a public place spoke volumes. I think she saw James’ name change–before he turned 18—as he was/is mine. No more previous names of men attached.
RedRose says:
November 1, 2012 at 1:50 pm
The reverse of that is that if James became a legal “Horman”, he would legally belong to KH, and KH could legally take him away from TMH, too. –like he did the other/s.
TMH probably sensed this long before everything blew up in her face.
@Kat says:November 1, 2012 at 11:45 am
Regarding James’ name change, I’m thinking about what might’ve been on TMH’s mind about what was HERS— no shared property rights, but James belonged to her.
RedRose and Kat,
Maybe on her mind, too. But I think she wanted the transition to the second semester at the new school to have no snags. She started and got that name change done by the end of the first semester at Lincoln. Being immersed in the teaching field she knew that James needed no snags in Roseburg where his birth father and Grandparents, who might become Guardians, would have different last names.
Just thinking like a “teacher mom”. LOL
BTW. What kind of a husband would give you a Mustang and keep it in his name?
Don’t know how accurate this calendar is for JM’s specific troop, but the only camp I see is a day camp for June 5, 2010.
http://www.otcbsa.org/openrosters/Calendar.asp
Looks like Beaver Day is where they work on the camp, carpentry, etc.
http://www.facebook.com/events/150768171721663/permalink/152453304886483/
Chris McCullough is the Doug Fir District Exec.
http://www.otcbsa.org/our-council/council-information-and-contacts/1018
BTW, there is a Kurt Holm involved with this unit (can’t link)
Wow, the coincidence of names.
vw says:
November 1, 2012 at 6:53 pm
“BTW. What kind of a husband would give you a Mustang and keep it in his name?”
Possibly one whose wife’s record of DUI could greatly affect
1. the vehicle’s insurance costs if it were to be registered/insured in her name
and/or
2. perhaps the ability/eligibility to get vehicle insurance in her name
Ramifications of DUI can go on for some time.
How is another mother’s dui record or mugshot relevant to this discussion? I agree that Desiree deserves to have her privacy invaded to the very same degree that she invaded Terri’s. But this other person didn’t do any harm to anyone and it seems like she was just repeating what her son thought about Kyron’s doctor’s appointment. Do we really want to do this to her?
Are you referring Kim Holm? If you are, a word of caution, it may not be relevant to Kyron’s disappearance per se, but Ms. Holm is not above scrutiny once she agreed to an interview, and of course her volunteer work at Skyline, which she is now restricted from, for the 3rd time.
B
T.Ruth,
Yeah, I was wondering about Wagner, too . . . then I finally noticed/read the text in the pale-yellow box
:
“NOTE: You can only search for the first plaintiff and defendant on a case. You can only search for the first three attorneys on a case, with the system first looking for attorneys on the scheduled event and then for active attorneys on the case. Search results will return the first 500 entries on the docket.”
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/pages/courtcalsearch.aspx
Wagner would not be one of the first 3 attorneys I guess.
Question mark for me, too, on why nothing comes up for the divorce case especially when KH stated on JVM that the abatement comes off in November.
There are cases on the court schedule that go into early 2013, so who knows what’s going on with Horman vs Horman.
I agree. I don’t consider myself a prude at all, but that picture is so sleazy and immature.
Kat says:
November 1, 2012 at 6:46 pm
snip>
That pic of KH grabbing her inappropriately in a public place spoke volumes.
It’s not significant, but I always wondered why Kaine chose a Mustang and a Ford 250 pickup when he had to transport three children and two adults. That mustang doesn’t sit five comfortably, especially if one is in a car seat. And why that gigantic truck? What was Kaine planning on hauling that he needed a truck that big? Is this just a guy thing? Or was Kaine not thinking of the fact that James was part of the family too?
@TRuth, Found the 4H article. Rockwood must have brought in two kids, Tarver one and then had another together, at least that’s my take. What got me about the article was the involvement of horses and that statement KH made about searching for Kyron on a horse ranch.
From what I gather, Erker made the support payments, or at least was court ordered to, but Tarver got the visitation. So did Kyron visit the grandparents in Roseburg and subsequently visit the Tarver household (to see the horses), and meet this “horse person” KH may have had suspicions about?
A person can “say” anything — doesn’t mean that it is true.
i.e., KH talked about TMH being a falling-down drunk but I just wonder if she might have had a couple of drinks too many one or another time and fell asleep on the sofa and he magnified it to make her look like a really bad person. Not defending her. Just sayin’.
And how can she defend herself? It’s like expecting an answer to the question, “So, how often do you beat your wife?”
Besides, IMO, I think KH might have also done his share of bad behaviors — it sounds like they might have had a fairly swinger type of lifestyle for a while there (I guess this would have been after Kyron, so James was probably living there, too). Of course, this might be all hear-say. You never know until you know.
I wonder if the mustang was just for looks and to impress people around them – most people would shop together for something that expensive — don’t think he would have been rolling in so much dough ($$) that he would just spring for a fancy mustang. Wonder who paid the bills in that household? What are the chances that he (a car person) would buy an expensive sports car for someone else, not himself, and just saying it was for her?
…and how many DUI’s did she have anyway? And didn’t I see a photo of a pregnant TMH sitting behind the wheel of the mustang? She would have to be a really dim bulb to be drinking while she was pregnant.
The boob-grab photo, IMHO, was just an example of immaturity, added to stupidity for actually posting it on the Internet. I don’t think I saw it anywhere,or if I did, it wasn’t memorable. Just sounds sleezy.
I can’t imagine that HE would have posted it – so maybe it was something she posted, thinking just a few friends would see it (yah, sure, on the INTERNET…)
I still wonder if he set her up re the texting and maybe she was aware of it and decided to give KH an earful. A possibility.
Am definitely not defending her; nor him. Whatever happened, he’s pointing fingers at her; she’s not pointing at anybody since she is lawyered up.
None of this matters as long as Kyron is gone.
Someone wrote earlier about James and the name change. I just wondered if KH wanted ‘everything/everyone’ to be under his control.
I don’t know anything, erose, et.al., just thinking all sorts of things and maybe ONE of those things will bring Kyron home. I wonder how soon after KH and TMH got married that problems were showing up, and maybe KH just wanted that control of having as much as possible in his own name.
Does anyone know when James first went to live with them in Aloha and then up on Sheltered Nook? After they were married, or was he always “part of the package”. And I wonder if Kiara was accidental, or if TMH thought maybe another baby, this time from KH, would turn them into a real family unit.
@erose says: November 1, 2012 at 5:27 pm
Okay you guys, please explain to me how him going from Ecker to Moulton has anything to do with this? @RedRose, Are you saying KH wanted to change his name to Horman, so TH changed his name from Ecker to Moulton? I just don’t get it.
RedRose says:November 1, 2012 at 1:50 pm
What if she posted that pic to ward off anyone interested in Kaine? In her?
Doesn’t it scream, we are sexually interested in each other still?
Wth else would someone post that image, with the amount of friends on their FB it was visible to? I can tell you right now I would have gotten a call from me Mum and I am reminded of what she would say when I was a teen trying to get away with too much eyeliner or jeans too tight, lol-
“What you advertise is what you sell, young lady.”
B
@Kat
I don’t care for that pic of Kaine and Terri
Reminds me of
Get a room
Or in their case go home LOL
vw says:
November 1, 2012 at 6:53 pm
RedRose says:
November 1, 2012 at 1:50 pm
The reverse of that is that if James became a legal “Horman”, he would legally belong to KH, and KH could legally take him away from TMH, too. –like he did the other/s.
TMH probably sensed this long before everything blew up in her face.
—–
IMO the only way James could have been a legal Horman would be if Ecker had his parental rights terminated and Kaine adopted James. Ecker may have been willing to have his rights terminated but it would have meant the loss of James’s child support(paid by Ecker) from the Hormans income . I wouldn’t think Kaine would be up for that action since he would not have wanted to lose James’s monthly child support amount. . Adopting James would have also meant that James would equally share in Kaines estate along with Kyron and Kiara. And if Terri divorced Kaine at some later date then Kaine would be responsible for child support just like Ecker.
I don’t know what he legal procedure for changing your child’s name to your maiden would be. Maybe Ecker did allow his parental rights to be terminated and since Kaine did not want adopt James Terri changed James’s name to her maiden name instead of Horman.
Side note on the ‘ownership’ of the mustang. Could only KH’s name be on the title because it was a ‘surprise’. If TH’s name was on it, she would have to sign during the registration process at the Motor Vehicle Admin. He may have just put his name on the car so to have it already registered and plated when he presented the gift. JMO
Its a marital asset subject to property distribution, for all intents and purposes, it really does not matter who it is titled to, he just bought TH new tires and rims for Mom’s day and she posted the pics on FB.
I do know there was an unidentified woman driving it following their separation, and it was reported to LE because they thought it was TH violating the RO.
B
Maybe Terri suggested to Kaine that he should adopt James and he was not comfortable in doing so. That would have created a lot of tension and resentment. Maybe changing his name was a knee-jerk reaction to same and it all went downhill from there.
I appreciate VW’s info that the timing of James’ move
was tied to the timing of a break between school semesters.
That makes sense & truly differs from Kaine’s representation it was impulsive,
in a temper fit, while he was out of town.’
And insight that the that the name change was likely to facilitate adjustment.
I do know there was an unidentified woman driving it following their separation, and it was reported to LE because they thought it was TH violating the RO.
B
************
Interesting, thanks Blink.
@mas 11/2/12 10:08 a.m.
Interesting, no doubt. But, perhaps a relative or a new interest?
The horse ranch that Kaine Horman requested to be searched was in Banks. This is one of those weird things in this case that bugs the crap out of me. Why did Kaine Horman have them search a ranch in Banks? Miles away from where Kyron disappeared? How did he think Kyron got there? Was he already thinking Terri did something to Kyron? This was searched the Sunday after Kyron disappeared, what was Kaine Horman thinking? What was LE thinking? I believe Sunday was the same day Kaine wrote the memo to his co-workers telling them not to talk to the media.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/ground_search_resumes_this_mor.html
“She said in addition to those areas, searchers also have responded to requests from Kyron’s father, Kaine, about areas where the boy may be, including a horse pasture in Banks, which was searched Sunday.”
margie says:
November 1, 2012 at 3:41 pm
“@Blink. Gotcha. The author is going to create a separate blog.”
****
@ Blink,
Is there a missing post submitted prior to the above post by margie where you are relying to margie?
Thank you.
@ Margie,
What author are you referring to?
Thank you.
No idea, I did not get it either.
B
I just don’t see James being a Horman
He had a birth father and adoptive father
How many women change their child’s name to a step father at James age
I never would
I still think it had to be James choise to take his granddads
Name when he moved to Roseburg
It is a family name Moulton
James was a teen not a baby
Blink
Yes that pic could have the message to someone
To go find your own man
This one wants me
LOL Amusing idea
Maybe Kaine thought Kyron might get his name changed to Young
Who knows?
Babe magnet?? *snicker*
I really hope some of what we are all ‘exploring’ here will bring Kyron back. We are spending so much time discussing the parents and the neighbors and everything else, that I’m trying to remember how many msgs ago we actually talked about Kyron. Poor little guy. Of course, I realize that is the reason we are here.
@mas says: November 2, 2012 at 10:08 am
I do know there was an unidentified woman driving it following their separation, and it was reported to LE because they thought it was TH violating the RO.
B