Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
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Back to that letter vw posted, I think someone should ask Cindy Banks what the findings were of the “complete review of procedures and responses” of the school and LE. Who put her up to protecting the school and LE with her “instructions” and for the people who complied with those instructions, I think it is past time IMO, to ask her the outcome of the review, or the source of her initial information. I know everyone was in shock, at the time, but things should be more in focus now. That letter, in retrospect should look like BS, unless some of you have been made privy to that review.
snips>
Please do not discuss the following:
It would be appreciated if you could avoid negative comments about the school and law enforcement. A complete review of procedures and responses are being reviewed at both institutions.
Is this lady for real?
B
June 10, 2010 Banks wrote an article to reiterate her perspective. The vigil/media letter is dated the 15th.
Kyron Horman: The view from across the street
By Cindy Banks
snips>
We read the comments in the media that point fingers at some imagined lack of attention to safety, and we are stunned.
We don’t live in fear. We know our neighbors. We know the school, and we look out for each other.
So I convinced a very shy neighbor to grant an interview.
Every day I see the officers working the case. They are deeply caring, exhausted, sad.
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_the_view_from_acr.html
It is unfortunate that early on, constructive criticism was met with intolerance. I don’t think any one suggested that the individuals were not working hard, but if the system is broken…maybe that made it difficult to find this child.
snips>
Cindy Banks, who owns the building, criticized The Oregonian for publishing a story today that questioned authorities’ response time in the disappearance.
Banks said she has seen searchers pulling long hours, even on their off days, for a Kyron. “We don’t tolerate criticism of law enforcement,” she said.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_day_10_sea.html
Just dawned on me that the vigil was held at Sunset Presbyterian Church, the same church that did volunteer work at the school. So who was the ***church member*** that organized the vigil, was it MC or Rachel Hansen? I know they co-organized the vigil, and they both went to HS with KH, but which one of them was a member of the church? And were they with the church at Skyline for the cleanup day?
The vigil was *****organized by a member***** of the Sunset Presbyterian Church who attended high school with Kyron’s father, Kaine. The ceremony moved many to tears and it was designed to bring hope to the Horman family, who watched from a private suite in the church.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Candlelight-vigil-planned-for-Kyron-Horman-96304094.html
Instead of conducting a normal Sunday service on May 2, they met briefly at the church, then spilled out into 35 pre-arranged areas, clearing brush, removing graffiti, planting gardens and performing other tasks.
http://www.oregonlive.com/north-of-26/index.ssf/2010/05/sunset_presbyterian_volunteers_number_1600_for_wide-reaching_sunday_cleanup.html
In the wake of the disappearance of Kyron Horman, we want to encourage the staff and teachers, as well as the families of Skyline Elementary School as they look to begin the school year by completing the work begun on 5/2/10. We need 150 people to serve. Bill and Maggie Schweinfurth, who led the Skyline team on 5/2/10 will be the project leaders. Here are the things that we will be doing that day:
• Finish painting exterior metal handrails.
• Finish painting trim in two classrooms.
• Paint one wall in the l
ibrary.
• Clean out and reorganize “volunteer” room in basement of school.
• Landscaping around the school (details not yet known).
• For those who are physically unable to work we invite you to walk the school halls and grounds praying for the staff, faculty and students and families of Skyline
http://www.facebook.com/events/115336181851067/
“We know that time has passed. … We know that time isn’t necessarily on our side,” said Michael Cook, 37, who helped to organize the event and is a friend of Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_vigil_draws_about.html
BTW,
I thought the volunteer day was the Sunday before the date of the May 25 article, but this article and their FB says the work was on May 2. THAT was the week Keefer says was “full of activities” what ever that was.
What’s in the volunteer room in the basement I wonder?
B
RedRose says:
November 3, 2012 at 9:55 pm
That said, is immunity ever applicable if LE finds out that a murder was committed by one or both?
*******
Current plot theme on Dexter…if it is, he takes care of it. I also keep wondering if it was Thelma or Louise driving TH’s mustang. I am just so confused and this damn fence is really starting to irritate me and people throwing rocks at Blink pizzzzes me off. This site is only trying to look at all possibilities without blinders. So many of us are fence sitters and if you throw rocks at us we are going to tend to fall on the other side.
Ode- don’t concern yourself, I must be missing the rock throwing, but in my experience when folks are tossing the rocks it is because they having nothing else to offer.
B
@erose. I always thought EFF was the Alternative Theories lady who appeared to me to have been shut down by a RO from someone last May, and I’m not surprised. It was my theory EFF limited therefore her posting to just find Kyr at Skyline and zero about another other topic–cause that was probably the only language that wouldn’t violate a RO.
I don’t read OLive unless directed there because there’s no news from OLive.
@erose. I have always thought Ms Banks & her female collegue, and the staging at what was after all a personal residence, were part of the management failures initially of LE. Warmheartedness never makes up for meddling in a criminal case. If she had stayed out of it, mcso would’ve been forced maybe to face they lacked adequate resources to lead the investigation and it might’ve gone to other leadership.
I posted a lot of urls originally, don’t plan to re-find, most from Ridgerunner. But when the church was for sale in early 2000s, there were sales restrictions and a private person could not buy it. Had to be sold to another church, so Rev Sharpshooter’s independent church bought it and his storyline and pictures online were his church regabbed it. Her storyline online was she rehabbed it. At some point apparently his group conveyed it to her, and she had to include some kind of community use. Kyron’s investigation fit the bill. She also has commercial tenants and useage (ie weddings). All of this is from articles & ads online. All I can say is in the urls I posted long ago, her storylines and the Revs about acquisition & rehab/rebuilding did not mesh to me. Each took credit. She has since been prominent in the Ridgerunner as a community leader shall we say.
@MBS
New babies cost lots of money and even with hand me downs
They cost big time
I do think people who spend money attract each other
and for couples it is a future of debts
@erose. Hansen was the church member.
But Kinkaid ran the show in those days
imo down to the last jot & tittle.
good catch Blink on the basement volunteer room
what public has that?
Was a computer there? (with volunteer login password)
walk the school halls praying? Easy way for SZ to case.
I don’t care if it was Sunday, where’s the principal’s good sense?
When I volunteered weekends, nights, a parent supervisor was there,
if not a staffer, and you went to yr worksite, no aimless wandering.
Imo Kaine’s job required some level of security clearance. If so, he didn’t allow
mortgage arrears or money issues.
These cases I’ve seen since following BOC, where there is an opportunistic sexual
predator, the family motives & problems have little to do with it,
other than they don’t give a level of tight supervision that would served as a walled fortress. Imo keeping
our eyes on the families does little good if the profile Blink posted took Kyron.
@vw. I can think of only one reason Houze would want medical emergency 911 related to Kaine. Maybe MC and Kaine were better friends than we’ve known. If there is a divorce trial, hearing Shannon as rebuttal to MC will be interesting. Poor Kiara.
Another item in divorce trial would be putting Kristian on to question which grdftr molested him.
Then ascertaining from Kaine whether Kiara had ever visited that gf. And why Kaine had no RO on the gf.
If Terri is innocent, and she settles rather than go to trial on the divorce, she’s nuts imo.!
Malty says:
November 3, 2012 at 7:35 pm
Blink
The creeper has much to say about us here at this site
Also
******
Blink, Malty must have seen the same posts that I saw but I can not seem to find them anymore…they must have been removed…Anyway it inferred that you and Lea were involved in a pro TH campaign…possibly that Lea was EFF or something to that effect. It is gone now I think which I am glad for but I wish you had seen it.
No worries, I do not speak FOR Lea, but I can tell you her and I are on a Find Kyron, find who is responsible, and bring them to justice campaign, period. If Mr. Keyboard Cowboy or anyone else does not see that, then it is they who have an alternative agenda. Anyone who has to bully others to think like them or agree with them should realize they do not come from a position of strength.
Now, again, not speaking for Lea, but I know her well enough to know that because of her profession there are ancillary points of interest for her legally, as she should.
That said, best advice is to ignore some fruit loop spending his 24/7 badgering people- expends energy none of us have to spare I would guess.
B
first bit of url rehash:
http://srnpdx.org/sites/default/files/RR1002.pdf
p 2
no personal residence. no retail use. etc (all of which exist now.)
water comes from the School only if used for religious purposes.
When did Banks get that proscription amended?
Or maybe the Rev did.!
dang that iphone os freebee: !
at the end of paras. I didn’t type that.
VW,
Were you able to find any 911 calls from March, April or May 2010 – - the time period where there may have been an alleged call from TMH regarding alleged untoward behavior on the part of the landscaper?
Thank you.
@Rose. EFF is not Alt.Th., although the later does have pickled alter-ego(s). I know someone who knows her. She lives in WA. I don’t remember her name, but it doesn’t matter. She’s in the past had dialogues with EFF. She hates SoCal. EFF doesn’t hate anyone; she loves Kyron and wants him found. She’s redundant, but harmless and sometimes comes up with a link or thought that really makes you think things again, if you know what I mean.
I wonder, looking at that new-and-improved SOCAL shyster (Tom Jones) on Olive now, if P.Pickle will show up with her story of Desiree stealing Kyron. Just a matter of time afore this story, too, gets shut down there, IMO.
@Blink. Thanks.
@Rose y erose. This talk of a basement and the little white church across the street Lady Banks makes me recall a discussion we had once about tunnels below the school. The school was built prior to WWII and I remember thinking that what if…. there was a connection between the two edifices. And someone (like a volunteer fireman with a penchant for camouflauge) knew this. My mom told me once there were secret tunnels outside of downtown portland. OK…..am I a little nuts or has anyone delved into this?
erose…..I think those “suggestions” were the same or close to what parents at Skyline were told by MCSO. Otherwise we would have heard some “leaks” I would think.
@Malty says:
November 4, 2012 at 1:26 am
Well I liked VW
Never read Margie
I was unstanding this was
A local person
I’m so hurt, Malty. LOL. That’s OK. I like VW better too. Margie *RIP* was too nice, sometimes.
But I am local. Drove to Tilllamook every summer for Yurt camping at Cape Lookout when
the kids were growing up. Stopped often at Banks, for gas, etc. Last plains (flat) town before
crossing the Coastal Range. A bit conservative? My kids go/went to a Westside HS near ground zero.
Speaking of Ground Zero. Doesn’t that Page remind you of someone who would drag her followers from other pages and recruit them to, like the monkeys in Wizard of Oz, to go harass those who have a brain?
The whole another woman driving Terri’s mustang after the separation thing really has me wondering and very possible that no connected and probably just to piss Terri off BUT imo, “what if” the mustang sighting on Sauvie has any merit, Kaine would not have left Intel but “maybe” his vehicle did. Not saying it was Kaine’s plan but how easy would it be for a scorned person that was intimate with him to hijack the key, make a copy (farfetch I know but not impossible). The person with or without help, removed Kyron, figured the mustang sighting would draw attention toward Terri and Kaine…..
I will “assume” that after the call to LE about a woman driving the mustang (assuming it was Terri), that “that woman” was checked by LE as to alibi, etc on June 4.
Rose says:
November 4, 2012 at 11:34 am
@vw. I can think of only one reason Houze would want medical emergency 911 related to Kaine. Maybe MC and Kaine were better friends than we’ve known. If there is a divorce trial, hearing Shannon as rebuttal to MC will be interesting. Poor Kiara.
@rose… hmmm. Did read a bit about Shannon. Seems she self-imposed or was told by someone to not talk. Didn’t she shut down her blog that delved into toxic partners like her ex. You know, I haven’t gone that angle in a long time…but all you guys are giving me dirty thoughts! LOL. Was there really all this swinging? So much for my naive view of the upscale soccer parents up the hill.
That said, that comment embedded and not edited out in the sexting, from MC, bothered me so much I think I can quote it….”…I’m sitting here writing a long email to Kaine…” WTF. Did Kaine get so excited submitting it and his (I think un..edited) rant to the judge to prohibiting visitation that he just overlooked that comment and submitted it???? Did it serve a purpose for Kaine? Seems it would be questioned by the judge. This is such a crazy case.
@wpg. Just looked at my photos. Short answer. No. Two for calls on 6/26 and one for calls, etc. at the school when Kaine and TMH got there after school. I will get them into a (new) blog and will let you know. I’ll try for the end of the week. Don’t worry…won’t keep saying “wait for it…Lol”
I did find the final judgement on the name change. Prior to that there was a Petition and Notice to all Parties affected. Don’t have those, but have the case number now so I will call and see if they will get it from the archives.
And, btw, it did go into effect on the 14th of January, just a week before finals at Lincoln. So she did, possibly, want it all to be set before starting a new semester at Roseburg. Does anyone know when he left?
And….could be wrong,….but I’m thinking missing in action regarding Ecker. “Notice” could be like the notice that they give to a “sperm donor” father of a baby that a mother wants to give up for adoption.
Ecker hadn’t, for whatever reason, seen James for years. Could be because of an inhospitable environment when he came. Could be that he gave up on James, himself. Sad…but open adoption moms do do that. Visit for a year or two and then just “get on with their lives”. Who knows…just a thought. Hope not. A young man needs every possible sane father figure in their lives.
Repeating I have little sympathy, if any, for ANYONE who would plead the 5th in the case of a missing child.
In this particular case, some are opining that the 140+ pleadings may be due to the fear of a future civil case, based on these words from a statement issued July 22, 2010:
(snip)
“We implore DeDe Spicer (sic) to come forward and cooperate with the investigators in any way that they need in order to assist us in finding our son. We will state further that if we find out through the investigation that she caused a delay in us finding our son due to her lack of cooperation, we will pursue civil remedies in this matter.”
link for article containing the full statement
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/investigators_put_pressure_on.html
The speculation by some about fear of a future civil case may be the case, but for me that doesn’t quite wash because postings by the cousin and the friend (along with, perhaps DDS) were done well AFTER the issued statement plus the release of the flyer with the photos of the 2 red-headed women.
This may offer a bit of clarity in what I’m trying to convy:
(posted on the new FB, from a 2010 online discussion with TJones,
to TJones from DDS’ alleged friend regarding DDS)
*
Flymonkey
Dec 30, 2010 at 7:34pm
“At one point after you had posted info after an interview with DS, she tried to go on GLP in order to make revisions or corrections or whatever she did after your first post. When she tried to log in, she was unable to access the board and thought she had been locked out of the site. She said it occurred to her that it was some kind of sign that she needed to get away from the forums. She has not been back since, and it’s been quite a relief to her. She realized it was a completely unproductive way to spend her time. There are a couple of people here who let her know if anything gets said here that we think she should know about, but that’s it.”
*
If DDS can speak publicly to People magazine and then go on to “speak” on the WorldWideWeb, how does that justify the 5th’s now. Did the situation just get “serious” for one’s own self compared to the real life and death scenario the missing child may have experienced?
Like, wth?
I’m concerned about abuse of the 5th and what the motives may be.
Also concerned if the 5ths were genuine and are deemed to be legally and legitimately taken against self-incrimination . . . what this may mean for little Kyron.
Waiting on Judge Kantor and the next steps in the Motion to Compel.
By the way, if any of the employees from Kyron’s school plead the 5th,
i’z gonna’ have “understanding-problems” and concerns with that as well
. . . BIG TIME.
My understanding of Oregon divorce law is that KH and TH would be divorced no matter what, so getting the divorce itself is not KH’s problem. His problems IMO are his goals to not let TH have any assets from the marriage, and for her to not have ANY custodial/visitation time with their daughter, and thus he would have to prove that she is an entirely unfit mother and a danger to Kiara, plus that she deserves nothing of their marital assets. With this goal, I do not know Oregon Law as it applies to completely stomping the other spouse into the ground.
Is that possible? And, how?
From what I can see KH’s information about TH that could prevent her from seeing Kiara would need to have been nailed down prior to Kyron’s disappearance.
She might have sexted MC after he left the house due to the MFH, but mothers do that all over the country. They don’t lose custody or visitation because of it.
The MFH has not be proven, or else she’d be in prison. Mothers do no lose custody/visitation due to the accusation (and only the accusation) of a major crime.
Her involvement, if any, in Kyron’s abduction is still an big question mark. Again, how could a FC judge deny visitation or shared custody to a woman who has not been charged with a crime, much less convicted of one?
Is she a bad mother? Until Kyron disappeared, who the hell knows? Only KH’s word v. hers so far. Rumors, and only rumors, about her being a sleaze do not count…rather, SHOULD not count, in FC.
I have to guess that KH and Rackner are armed with what they view as evidence that TH should not see Kiara and should get no slices of the marital pie. Still, their view of what counts, versus what a judge will view as valid proof, could be miles apart. It’s not like the two of them sustained a slam-dunk victory in the custody hearing in the fall of 2010. Nothing was decided, other than TH pulled back pushing to see Kiara, and even then, she did not give up the right to return to that subject another day.
What I muse about today then is the trifecta of the end of divorce abatement, the pending hearing on DY’s civil suit, and the kerfluffle over DDS’s deposition. All 3 issues are occurring around the same time (unless nothing appears on court dockets about the abatement and settlement stuff). In all that muck, will anything come up that produces a lead about Kyron?
What if that does not happen?
What if TH earns visitation with Kiara? What if she is awarded some of the marital assets? What is NOTHING comes from the civil suit, other than more heartache for DY?
@mas,
In that scenario, the person driving the Stang would then have to return it, hoping no one had noticed Ky or the Mustang had gone missing. Too much additional risk, if you ask me.
First thing that came to my mind, too, and fits with LC’s description that KH would not be pleased if details were released.
Rose says:
November 4, 2012 at 11:34 am
@vw. I can think of only one reason Houze would want medical emergency 911 related to Kaine. Maybe MC and Kaine were better friends than we’ve known. If there is a divorce trial, hearing Shannon as rebuttal to MC will be interesting. Poor Kiara.
@Mbs, Happy Birthday!
My general point to be considered is about why JM may have had a name change and why he may have moved. I was suggesting that JM may have not had problems with either KH or TH. It may have had more to do with the obligation of who was to financially support him, an argument between TH and KH, or the Horman’s and Ecker. No, they were not at all destitute on one income, but in KH’s own words, he was not happy with the money situation, and thought TH was spending it like water. By some accounts, she also wasn’t bringing anything in anymore, either. Just speculation on my part, but the money was one point of contention in the marriage.
@Rose, I know it’s a rehash of a rehash of a rehash. You provided a lot of info on the church (and Ecker). I just had not seen that vigil/media letter before, and had not realized the extent of Bank’s input.
Interesting that the Girl and Boy Scouts once used the church.
Rose says:
November 4, 2012 at 12:33 pm
first bit of url rehash:
http://srnpdx.org/sites/default/files/RR1002.pdf
p 2
Not only what is in the room, but what swas in the room post abduction. Did someone want a legit reason to go back in to that room? Would like to know who volunteered for that job.
——————————
What’s in the volunteer room in the basement I wonder?
B
@vw, He might have approved the name change in exchange for release from child support. TY for info on 911 call.
———————————————
snip>
PS. Don’t think Ecker was involved in this. Like I mentioned, I briefly saw the file on the name change. If I can get it again I’ll look for Ecker’s name. But I know this much. It went thru (the change) so he must have approved it, legally. I guess that means they must have had a conversation about it. Also, IIRC, no mention has been made of why Ecker stopped visiting James. Could be he didn’t get along with Kaine or for other reasons personal to his life. Sounds like he was having a tough time, financially.
Shouldn’t I have asked that? I really don’t know, just wondered – if LE offers immunity and later they find there was murder, does the immunity still apply?
I didn’t know. Hope I wasn’t asking a Really Stupid Question. Just ignore this post if it was TOO Dumb. Thanks. I should probably research and see exactly what immunity does cover.
(I don’t watch Dexter – wasn’t that a program that TMH liked? I don’t know if it is even still on)
@Ode says:November 4, 2012 at 9:59 am
RedRose says:November 3, 2012 at 9:55 pm
That said, is immunity ever applicable if LE finds out that a murder was committed by one or both?
*******
Current plot theme on Dexter…if it is, he takes care of it. I also keep wondering if it was Thelma or Louise driving TH’s mustang. I am just so confused and this damn fence is really starting to irritate me and people throwing rocks at Blink pizzzzes me off. This site is only trying to look at all possibilities without blinders. So many of us are fence sitters and if you throw rocks at us we are going to tend to fall on the other side.
Ode- don’t concern yourself, I must be missing the rock throwing, but in my experience when folks are tossing the rocks it is because they having nothing else to offer.
B
RedRose, I appolly, I am burning the barn at both candles and I wanted to address your question.
Was not stupid, immunity from criminal prosecution is a complex legal issue.
However, in short, immunity from prosecution “deals” are very specific. For the most part, they are worded and agreed to include what an individual would NOT be able to claim immunity from as well, to cover both parties.
The best example I can give you is Karla Homolka Bernardo. She cut a deal with prosecutors against her husband, and could not be further prosecuted outside of her deal, which iirc was 12 years.
Upon learning of her ACTUAL roles, in which, had they known , she would have been charged similarly, they could not. It is by far one of the most notorious prosecutorial failures of an immunity deal.
B
@VW, I veromi(ed) the two phone numbers you listed. The 6076 goes to someone with several numbers and connections to among other places Banks OR and San Bernadino CA.
http://www.veromi.com/Search.aspx?sType=phone&db=&phone=5037036076
@VW
I try to read the local posters if I am short on time
Because I have a feeling one of us will stumble
On some one or some tip one day
As I told Redrose don’t leave here no matter what
Due to caring for a very ill hubby I have less time
Due to my iPhone 5 i still can’t post links
All temporary
But we need to find Kyron
And he could be very near so could the SZ
I feel us locals must stay alert
I expect to hear or see something every day
My best to your hubby’s speedy recovery Malty.
B
And Erose and Rose
I make time for you two
You are a learning tree
So is MBS
Blink and Lea can handle rocks just fine
These are outstanding gals
IMO
@erose. I hadn’t seen Banks input at vigil either.
I do remember she was a very aggressive hostess, controlling
media access to bios press conference(s). and was very agressive saying
not to criticize LE. One has to wonder if she still gets her water from Skyline School as the 2002
deed only gave an easement so long as her home was used for religious purposes. I also wonder
her property’s water source at the school. Remember there was a well on the soccer field that was rebuilt or
something when the new turf field was laid.
looking for the article on the well & new grass field again, I found this.
scroll down to red schoolhouse pic for blurb on Apr 2009 grant work at Skyline by 32 volunteers & a contractor. I wonder who the
Green Team school headmistress hired as grant contractor?
http://www.wmswcd.org/content.cfm/Resources/Newsletter/eNewsletter/July-2009-eNewsletter,3
snip>
WMSWCD technical staff ***provided advice*** on appropriate native plants and wholesale sources, ***contractor services*** and costs, use of compost, weed control methods and educational signage.
Rose says:
November 4, 2012 at 10:39 pm
You are a teacher, Malty, and a good one, I always learn from you, more than you know.
Malty says:
November 4, 2012 at 9:04 pm
There is a backyard contractor list link on this page of WMSWCD. No RS or Rudy, but who knows if he was on the list of if Skyline used the list.
http://www.wmswcd.org/content.cfm/Resources/Native-Plant–Animal-Species
…what NelMel says: Food 4 Thought. What IF, just supposing, KH was trying to make what he thought was a foolproof plan for dumping TH? –and Kyron (who might be ‘stashed’ for “4-5 years”) would be the victim in all of this, maybe not-well-thought-out ‘plan’ to get rid of TMH.
…so maybe KH has “better options” and let the ‘better option’ borrow the Mustang, be seen on SI, then – using her cell – be mistaken for TMH.
Well, this is all WAY out there … but I still can’t figure out why KH didn’t want anybody from Intel talking and also why LE ‘has knowledge of things they wish they didn’t know’.
Even though TMH might have been very unhappy in the marriage, to the point of shopping around, does anyone know if she ever really planned to leave? Could the MFH have been just a way of someone to not be arrested for something else, so made up a MFH story (which came up after Kyron was gone, isn’t that right?).
I’m still trying to associate those happy, smiling family photos with someone who is supposed to have “hated” Kyron.
by the way, DDS wouldn’t have anything to do with driving the mustang for KH, would she? – Was she only TMH’s friend, or KH’s friend, too?
And what are the chances that the Mustang could have been ‘loaned’ for a few hours to DAD? Is anything written down about where he was on that morning?or how well he knew KH and/or TMH? and if they ever crossed paths at the hangout on Hwy 30? –either of them and/or DAD and/or DAD’s brother who photographed red tree frogs (among other things). Wonder who the bartender is down there? I’ll bet he would have some good stories to tell….
and thinking about the note from erose: If KH wasn’t happy about the $$ TMH was spending, he doesn’t seem like a wuss, so why the heck didn’t they just work it out between themselves — unless he didn’t want her around anyway? When you want to get rid of someone, I suppose you could say anything – who knows what is true – spending too much, gaining too much weight, passing out on the sofa, etc., etc.
Is there any place at all where KH has said that TMH was NOT a good stepmom and mom to his children? I haven’t see it, but then I also read here pretty much only.
This is such wild speculation, but there’s a lot we don’t know yet and probably won’t until LE shares moe information. Anyway, if this is too “out there”, you can decide to not post it, Blink.
Would you also like me to keep my opinions/observations WAAAAY shorter??
@Bumble says: November 4, 2012 at 4:25 pm
@mas,In that scenario, the person driving the Stang would then have to return it, hoping no one had noticed Ky or the Mustang had gone missing. Too much additional risk, if you ask me
and
@NelMel says:November 4, 2012 at 3:48 pm
also
@erose says: November 4, 2012 at 4:58 pm
. . . . but in KH’s own words, he was not happy with the money situation, and thought TH was spending it like water.
T. Ruth says:
October 21, 2012 at 10:51 pm
July 8, 2010
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.htmlSo in early July he reports that he not only knows she’s taking medication for some sort of mental problem, but he admits he is at the very least *asked* to keep an eye her. Then, oddly, by mid-July he tells the reporter, I don’t know anything about any medication that might have to do with mental health? WTH? Sorry guys, but this is what bothers me about Kaine Horman. The man is simply not being truthful. He either knew or he didn’t, she either was or she wasn’t. There is absolutely nothing IMO complicated about the question(s) he’s being asked and yet he seems to turn them into vague, mumbo jumbo answers.
Agreed
B
——————————–
I can’t decide if he is not being truthful or keeping both sides of the answer open in case he needs either story at a later date.
Kaine is in it for Kaine. He seems to have his eye on the next opportunity. He just doesn’t seem to be ‘in’ his relationships. He says, “I thought ‘the marriage’ was doing pretty well,” Kaine Horman said…
then the article says “Horman said he thought ‘his’ marriage to Terri Moulton Horrman…..
Saying ‘the marriage,’ looks like he is not taking ownership of his own relationship, it’s like something that is happening to him rather than ‘his marriage,’ something he is a part of, or something he is responsible for keeping alive. Like ‘my boy’ vs.’the boy’ or ‘my house’ vs. ‘the house.’ While the article reports he says ‘his marriage’ he does not, he says ‘the marriage.’ When things are paraphrased, little things like that get lost in the translation.
When he talks about not knowing when his wife stopped taking meds or even if she did indeed stop taking meds, he acts like he doesn’t really know, although he was supposed to keep an eye on her. That is a big responsibility to keep an eye on someone who is suffering from PPD. It appears he sloughs off responsibilities/relationships and when they become too much for him, he goes elsewhere, rather than stick with his wife/wives for the ‘in sickness or in health’ part of the contract. Women don’t seem to mean anything to him, rather they are just a vessel necessary to make sure his needs are satisfied, otherwise out they go.
This is why I think if he was having a relationship or not having a relationship outside of the marriage is relevant. It could have been just one more distraction for him. He didn’t like the inconveniences that relationships bring with them. How much of a priority did he make the children?
I really think Kyron was the perfect victim. It seems everyone was otherwise occupied that morning and not looking out for Kyron. I am not fully convinced that Kyron was the target of the abduction or if he was the one child that the perp had the opportunity to grab.
Kiara was sick which made Terri distracted, KH was not present at the SF, and DY was not present at the SF. Not saying everyone had to be there, but he had 3 parents and not one was with him in the hallway, therefore he was alone. The school certainly had no checks and balances in place to keep him safe, all 3 of them trusted the school to do just that. It was after all the school’s responsibility.
The SF date was published for everyone to see and also the idea that all were welcome was put out there. What a perfect storm formed around Kyron that day.
Kayne knew Kiara was sick, couldn’t he at least have given Terri a hand and spent time with his son that day? He is spouting off about how much time he spends with him. The reason I am bringing this up is, I wonder how much time he really has to give to this relationship or is Kiara going to be put off to someone else, too. I am talking about his taking custody of Kiara, wouldn’t she be better off having her Mom around in some form–supervised visitation, perhaps, and not just his distracted eyes on her? Can he actually see what is better for his child or just what is better for his way of living–not paying child support, for example.
I am not blaming the parents, the school had the responsibility to make sure the students were safe that day. It appears they are still being sloppy about security in that school.
I just wish someone had been there that day for Ky, it was a big one for him, people coming in to see the SF projects, one of which was his and then the talent show in the afternoon. By all accounts, he was a shy child and could have used the support of a family member in the audience. So who do they blame for the abduction, a step-mother who had her arms full of sick child and had a full schedule that morning? Doesn’t make sense to me.
If LE did not have tunnel vision, who knows what could have been uncovered at the ‘crime scene,’ which was the school and not the Horman Household. I am not blaming the parents for not being there, this seemed to be an important day in the life of Ky, and Terri was the only one there for him. She left and then all hell broke loose. His classroom was right near the stairs that had an exit to the outside, anyone could have planned to take ‘a child.’ Circumstances just made it be that Ky was the child taken.
I know I went all over the place here, and that was not my initial intention, but once I started, out it came.
I just can’t see it being Terri, I think she had ‘sick child’ on her mind and that was the extent of it. I think the adults important to this child have such a different kind of lifestyle and it was not conducive to keeping a shy wonderful little boy safe. Anyone of them could have left the vampire in. If the vampire was not theirs, it could have been someone who took the opportunity to grab Kyron while he was alone during that perfect storm of events that happened that morning. In a way then, they all left the vampire in.
Kaine Horman
http://www.telephonereverse411.com/listing/503-703-6076
Blink, I can only wonder two things about this phone #. Either KH lived in Banks when he was temporarily out of the house in 2010, or he is tied to someone in Banks, and has a phone in his name with the billing address going to that person’s address in Banks.
snip off the google page search>
Before that, Kaine lived in Banks, OR from 2010 to 2010.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS366US366&q=don+abbey#hl=en&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS366US366&sclient=psy-ab&q=kaine+horman+%2B+banks+oregon&oq=kaine+horman+%2B+banks+oregon&gs_l=serp.12…66049.74513.1.76908.35.31.0.2.2.5.309.6026.0j22j8j1.31.0.les%3B..0.0…1c.1.-Al4NZwJYw8&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=1b5b849ef3dd5694&bpcl=37189454&biw=1104&bih=580
As of Wednesday, the unofficial count of write-in ballots showed Intel manager John Kinsky, who moved to Banks in 2004, leading City Councilor Pete Edison by three votes, 11-8.
A Boy Scout troop leader, Kinsky said he views serving as mayor as a community service offering. But he also has a vision for the town’s future.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/argus/index.ssf?/base/news/1227286259152120.xml&coll=6
Married with three kids and a manager at Intel, Kinsky actually had some interest in the position. When he opened the voters guide and saw no one applied, he called friends and asked for their write-in endorsements. They lived outside city limits, so they called some folks inside Banks, who in turn gave Kinsky the deciding margin.
http://www.oregonlive.com/washingtoncounty/index.ssf/2009/10/elected_11_write-in_votes_the.html
WritersUA Conference 2010 Blog
News, reviews, quick notes, photos, and other up-to-the-minute information coming to you directly from within the 2009 Conference for Software User Assistance in Seattle.
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John Kinsky, Intel
http://writersua2010.blogspot.com/
@Malty. ditto. poetry in motion.
@I was intrigued the Apr 09 contractor pulled out an acre of bushes.
Terri had to get the idea somewhere. Not like with a new baby she looked up
& decided pulling up blackberry bushes was on her priority list when there was so much
other basic maintenance to be done on the house & yard.
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/455.htm
two locals get the kitchen scraps now. then? yes, a chicken farm & a pig farm. http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2010/01/with_help_from_portland_eco-sc.html?mobRedir=false
(the pig farm/school scraps is what attorney Morris Dees did in high school and was very lucrative, he said.) Ahhh, it’s a Skyline teacher who’s the chicken farmer. On review, it was Inahara who was the Green grantwriter & manageress until recently:
from the above article: “Community help. Inahara got volunteers for the landscaping project from a nearby church, Hands On Greater Portland and two Boy Scout troops. ” This refers apparently to the April ’09 grant-funded volunteer workgroup of 32 plus contractor because the grant funded the 09 work. I’d always assumed that volunteer group was associated with the May 2010 work