Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
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Thanks, Blink.
Blink says: “Personally I think Rosenthal should weigh in, and the fact that he has not acknowledged brings me pause.”
I have not personally donated money to Desiree’s gofundme account. However, I haven’t ruled it out. Kyron’s case will stalemate and go cold if it hasn’t already. Could this civil suit possibly bring a few answers via depositions, even if they don’t come from Terri or DeDe? Possibly. Could possible information, if made public, force LE to state that Terri is no longer a suspect and/or force them to reevaluate their direction? I’ve thought about donating because I know how desperately Desiree wants information. Also, because I feel so sorry for her. In addition, because I think the case will go cold if nothing happens. Rosenthal weighing in would be nice, it would bring clarity and would probably bring more donations/gifts.account. I’ve thought about doing so though, and still do. I think
I am following this closely and am stuck on Kyron’s teach, Ms. Porter. I know if I were her, I would be more than devastated that this happened on my watch. Does anyone have an insight into her reaction and further actions regardings Kyron’s disappearance?
I spent a few hours last night looking at all of the pictures Terri had posted on her FB page and the comments she made. It wasn’t the first time I’ve seen them, and I don’t know what I was looking for really. I know others of you have done that too. You may have had the same observations or notice something is different.
Some thoughts I had:
1 – Kaine looked genuinely happy in every picture. He did funny things with the kids. He also participated in activities with the kids where he acted a bit like a kid himself. He was affectionate – you can tell when he’s holding the baby, for example, that he feels connected and loving, not awkward. He bought Kiara her own roses.
2 – I did not see a picture of Kyron with Kaine on Father’s Day, 2009, but there is a picture of Kaine and Kiara described as the first Father’s Day with Kiara, and a picture of a cake. It does not seem like a day Kyron would have gone anywhere else.
3 – If I had to come up with anything of concern about Terri from such a small snapshot of their lives, it would probably be that I wonder about her self-confidence and doubts about her appearance. I say that because many of the comments are about how good she looks as though her friends knew that was of concern to her. When she posted a couple of her contest pictures, she also said she hoped to be moving in “that direction” by her 40th birthday. It’s not clear if she meant her look or another contest. After Kiara was born, she lost a lot of the weight, it appears. Later on, it seems she had gained some. I’d say she was normal compared to most, and probably in better shape than many of us, but she may not have seen herself that way.
4 – Spending – looking at the house, activities, kids’ toys, vehicles, it does not seem that Kaine was a “penny pincher” I always wondered what they disagreed about buying, or whether she was being vague about where the money in question went. Most pictures show Kaine in shorts and he often wore them to work, but that was his choice. There’s no indication he restricted what others could wear.
5 – I had not paid attention before to the type of tractor they had. According to internet ads, that model with mower and loader would have cost well over $12,000 even used from 2008, 2009. A 2010 model could have been as much as $16,000 to $18,000. There are variations, of course, but it seems like a pretty powerful little machine. If you only wanted a riding mower, you could spend a lot less than that, so they must have had plans for the brush, maybe trails and snow plowing. I’m having a hard time thinking of either one of them, or James, doing all that (except mowing) with this machine. Somebody would have to watch Kiara. Maybe it was Kaine’s answer to not hiring a landscaper? Was it for maintenance or did they have other plans? In the approximately 2+ years of living there with only Kiara, I wonder if Kaine has used it.
6 – I was struck by how much Adam Farber and Kaine resembled each other in one of the pool pictures if you didn’t know either of them well. The swimming school is a 3 to 4 minute drive from the Albertson’s on Shattuck (toward Beaverton) with another FM in between. Scared Monkeys mentioned a “civil forcible entry in 2007” against Adam Farber (with no other details except locally), which would be filed by a landlord to remove a tenant. He was quoted as follows –
“They’re very nice people,” said Adam Farber, who runs a swimming school and taught Kyron to swim and worked on strokes with James. Farber had no idea until he went missing that Kyron was Terri’s stepchild. “They all fit in really well.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_blended_family_f.html
He seems to be very well loved as a swim coach and also coached swim team at Sunset High School. He apparently used to live in Arizona in 2002 and started his school here in 2007. Someone probably researched him long ago.
7 – The following is definitely true: “Terri was thrilled when Kiara was born in December 2008. Tarver said she had always wanted a girl. Terri’s enthusiasm spilled onto her Facebook page, which has dozens of photos of the cherub-faced carrot-topped girl with blue eyes. She also flooded Tarver and other acquaintances with photos and e-mail updates of the baby’s progress. He thought that was unusual because he wasn’t close to her family.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_blended_family_f.html
What’s not clear is whether she began to lose patience with James and Kyron, or to think less about their emotional needs. Did Kiara become almost an obsession?
I don’t think I’m helping much – I just hate to see another Christmas come without knowing what happened to Kyron.
@rose
thanx for you explanations.
Very busy, but looked again at the news item by Kptv. Btw, it’s interesting that they got the “scoop” on the “protective order” and KGW and Oregonlive decided not to pursue it.
Most KPTV commenters, even those not accustomed to throwing TMH under the bus, assume that the “protection” is just for stepmother. Indeed, the title can throw one.
But it is very possible that all those involved with Kyron’s life may be subject to having their medical records poured over. From the KPTV article:
“The protective order filed in Multnomah County Circuit Court said any medical records, including but not limited to mental health records, can be used by the prosecution or the defense.
The protective order mandates any such records be sealed in an envelope at the conclusion of the litigation if they are retained in either attorney’s files.”
Sounds to me like more than TMH will have medical records open in this case. OR….it could just mean that TMH’s attorneys would be using their own client’s records for her defense.
If that is the case why, when TMH wanted visitation, did Rackner threaten multiple dispositions and medical records being opened? Subsequently, Bunch withdrew the request. Might have been that the medical records weren’t the real issue there; they wouldn’t have won visitation without reciprical discovery anyway?
Does anyone know if Kaine ever saw a therapist before the abduction of Kyron? And if Desiree had, she might be biting off more than she thought she could handle, here.
Why, oh why, is the school getting off here???? And why is MCSO letting them. With nary an investigation on those “lost” log-in records. That’s where the ground zero “heroes” went underground…
You are correct, without a copy of the order ( I am stewing about this all day already, no idea what the deal is with the backwoods filings in secret there, anyhoo..) it is likely ANY medical records could be used in the suit by either party. As I opined the other day, who the hell is going to contemplate being a part of any of that, most especially in a potentially criminal matter?
I wonder if Kim Holm got a subpoena? Um, no I don’t.
Pass for the school is a very good question, I want to hear that directly from DY, personally.
B
Does anyone else feel that Kaine is privy to more information from LE investigators that Desiree?
If so, why?
Breakfast with Santa
Saturday, December 1, 2012
Must RSVP by November 26, 2012
9 am – 11:00 am
Come join Santa at the Loch Lolly warming shelter for a great breakfast.
$8.00 per person
Menu includes: French toast, sausage, eggs, biscuits, juice
Proceeds from this breakfast go to the Kyron Horman Foundation, this is a perpetual foundation.
Each child will be able to make an ornament to take home with them at no additional charge.
Please RSVP for the Breakfast with Santa to: Loch Lolly Christmas Forest
503-647-2619 or email lochlolly1@aol.com.
http://www.lochlollychristmasforest.com/
***********
What is a perpetual foundation?
mas says:
November 19, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Just wondering what reasons LE would have (legit ones) to ask Tyler and family to “not” disclose the time that Kyron was seen by them on June 4?
I slightly can understand the SZ description but “why” the timeline?
Kyron’s case is like no other missing child case I have ever seen in regards to LE wanting everything secret. IMO, LE must have given threats of prosecution for every one of them to clam up.
So “why” telling those at the school that morning to mums the word??
*************
It’s very weird isn’t it? Why, for instance are the original 911 calls when Kyron was not on the bus, made by both Terri & the school so secretive? So off-limits Terri’s attorney cannot even access them. What is in those calls that LE will not release them, because somehow it will harm their case? None of this makes any sense to me. Seems like we must be missing something huge.
Greetings my lovely and talented T.Ruth- I appreciate your patience.
The easy answer is to say that they did not want to influence other witness statements. I am personally bothered by the amount of minor witnesses being quoted or who have been interviewed by the media, and the withholding of the 911 calls of all instances is directly because no media outlets there has the stones to request them and object procedurally, requiring the a response from MCSO which would outline the scope.
You can’t argue that abating would interfere with the integrity of witnesses if not deposed, and turn around and argue that deposing them will interfere with their integrity and promote safety as a witness.
Who is FOS exactly, I want to know.
B
Do we know why GM was granted custody of Quinn? Was this something Desiree agreed to or was custody something she fought for and lost?
————
T. Ruth says:
November 24, 2012 at 10:11 pm
Does anyone know when Gregg McCullough was granted custody of his son Q?
By stipulation order in 2004. He maintains it.
B
@Miss Bri. In my old cps days, very old, a stipulation meant both sides just agreed to some facts, and here apparently, the outcome of custody & residence.
I think it is rare a mother will stipulate full custody as well as residence with Dad.
She must have been in dire straits, such as:
1) she was unable to care for her child and knew birthfather had uncontrovertible facts
such that if litigated she would not get custody anyway; and/ or,
2) she wanted what was best for her child and knew she couldn’t care for him.
Most mothers imo don’t adopt position 2, even if they need to, imo.
The motivator is those facts that would not be overcome at custody trial imo
@Rose & Miss Bri
Re: custody of Quinn
Did Desiree not give up Quinn around the same time she gave up Kyron?
She did.
B
Thanks Rose!
—————
Rose says:
November 26, 2012 at 10:29 pm
@Miss Bri. In my old cps days, very old, a stipulation meant both sides just agreed to some facts, and here apparently, the outcome of custody & residence.
I think it is rare a mother will stipulate full custody as well as residence with Dad.
She must have been in dire straits, such as:
1) she was unable to care for her child and knew birthfather had uncontrovertible facts
such that if litigated she would not get custody anyway; and/ or,
2) she wanted what was best for her child and knew she couldn’t care for him.
Most mothers imo don’t adopt position 2, even if they need to, imo.
The motivator is those facts that would not be overcome at custody trial imo
Rose says:
November 26, 2012 at 10:29 pm
(snipped)
I think it is rare a mother will stipulate full custody as well as residence with Dad.
She must have been in dire straits, such as:
1) she was unable to care for her child and knew birthfather had uncontrovertible facts such that if litigated she would not get custody anyway; and/ or,
2) she wanted what was best for her child and knew she couldn’t care for him.
Most mothers imo don’t adopt position 2, even if they need to, imo.
The motivator is those facts that would not be overcome at custody trial imo
—————————————————-
I think giving up custody, or not, is sometimes more personal, private, and complicated than we realize. It is seldom without pain. Whatever Desiree’s choices were based on, she clearly loves her children and they have been fortunate that she has remained close enough to demonstrate that love.
In my own case, it had nothing to do with any of these things we’ve mentioned, and there are no clues in the court transcripts which would indicate the true reasons because it simply was a private decision at the time. My children have grown up and understand it now.
I do not understand how Rosenthal could allow Kelley and Desiree to go on blogging at gofundme in a way that undermines her case. Also I think to request funds for suit-associated “legal expenses” a copy of the Retainer agreement should have been disclosed on the site to the public.
Here’s what I mean, illustrated by Desiree’s “Thanksgiving letter” posted on her behalf by her sister:
http://www.gofundme.com/kyronhorman
” he saved me. You see late one night I had hit my low, as I laid there feeling sorry for myself, I said to myself I don’t want to live anymore, please God take my pain away. That was when I heard a voice, I’m not sure if it was Kyron or God but it said, “it will be okay, it’s all going to be okay, we will be okay.” I realized while looking through teary eyes at him that I WAS going to be okay, that we were going to be okay. No matter how difficult I was feeling about all that I was enduring at the time I knew that I had to make it for him, for Quinn, and for us. The next day I got up after being in seclusion for two months and I got dressed and started my new life. I remember someone telling me that he thought he had lost me and he thought I wasn’t going to make it. And I turned to him and said, “I am stronger than that.””
So Desiree portrays herself as a new mother of a baby with an infant & older boy, still married to Kaine, who we know was sleeping around, if only with Terri. She portrays herself as so depressed she was in bed in seclusion for two months & ready for suicide. She escapes this state via an apparent auditory hallucination, from God or infant Kyron, at a minimum magical thinking.
The problem is, she wants to rely on medical or mental health records to convict Terri who she wants to allege was in a similar mental state–infant, bit older son (Kyron), same catting hubby– and to use Terri’s depression & statements against her to prove she offed a child.
A defense attorney could establish through Desiree’s blog that Desiree herself was in an identical if not worse mental condition, as she hadn’t gotten out of bed & parented for two months, so such a mental state proves nothing wrt to potential for criminal actions. In fact she said in her case parenting responsibilities motivate depressed moms.
It’s interesting Kaine was with two wives reduced to this state in the end stages of new parenthood & marriage to him.
http://www.overstock.com/Day-4-Sergeant-Christopher-Neil-Horman/5/blogpost
When did Desiree give up both boys? Before or after she was married to TY?
I know she went for medical treatment about that time, which was probably the reason for her decision. Right?
@Miss Bri says: November 27, 2012 at 10:34 am
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kyron-Horman-civil-suit-delayed-for-criminal-case-181040821.html
In case anyone hasn’t see it yet. As of lunch time here, this is the only news with the story online. Most of it is background. Basically, a 9 month delay as the “criminal case progresses”. I wonder what they are doing to progress the criminal case? And why 9 months? Why not 6 or 12 or 2 years? And why didn’t MCSO and the DA respond sooner? This feels less about Terri’s rights than about keeping particular information from becoming public.
I wish they would actually rewrite background stories with the dates spelled out. They copy old stuff as background which contain phrases like “last week” and you have to think carefully about the timing. That also carries forward any mistakes or old information that has been changed.
I hope somewhere in all this is something to help Desiree through the holidays. And Tony and Kaine as well.
Civil case delayed 9 months.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kyron-Horman-civil-suit-delayed-for-criminal-case-181040821.html
“The source said that the civil case will be delayed for 9 months after affidavits were filed by the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and the District Attorney.”
NEW MEDIA ARTICLE TODAY
snipped from article dated today, November 27 2012 (caps by me):
“The judge in the civil lawsuit involving the death of Kyron Horman was expected to delay those proceedings against Terri Horman AS THE CRIMINAL CASE MOVES FORWARD, a source told KGW Tuesday.
The source said that the civil case will be delayed for 9 months after affidavits were filed by the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and the District Attorney.”‘
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyron-Horman-civil-suit-delayed-for-criminal-case-181040821.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
TO NOTE:
As of 4:51pm EasternTime, the video with the linked kgw article is not a recent video, but one from the summer when TMH’s legal filed a motion to abate DY’s civil case.
Video might be updated, though, by the time my comments on this are posted.
Blink,
What other reasons would MCSO and the DA have to file affidavits in this case other than search or arrest?
Interesting these filings are coming at the end of the 2-yea divorce case abatement. The abatement ended 4 days ago, November 23.
Thank you.
They can file for any reason that would cause a breach to the investigation. I presume it legit in terms of the filing in good faith, but I believe strongly this is what I/we opined .
Faulty firehose resulting in a call to action to avoid the announcement. Interesting to see who speaks about it tomorrow.
B
From Oregon Live:
On Monday, Judge Henry Kantor granted the motions to abate the civil proceeding and ordered the motions and affidavits filed by the district attorney and sheriff sealed.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/kyron_horman_lawsuit_on_hold_a.html
headline:
“Kyron Horman lawsuit on hold after DA and sheriff move to block it”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/kyron_horman_lawsuit_on_hold_a.html#incart_m-rpt-2
^^
Why would THEY block this now when THEY originally responded to JudgeM regarding the summer 2012 abatement filing by TNH’s legal that THEY took no position on it ?
wth?
Just in
The lot thickens…………..
-snip
A Multnomah County judge has granted motions by District Attorney Michael Schrunk and Sheriff Dan Staton to delay Desiree Young’s civil lawsuit against Terri Horman.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/kyron_horman_lawsuit_on_hold_a.html
I meant the plot thickens not the lot.
-snip
On Monday, Judge Henry Kantor granted the motions to abate the civil proceeding and ordered the motions and affidavits filed by the district attorney and sheriff sealed.
————-
It sounds like MCSO and the DA do not want to have their investigation/case information to become public or shared with all attorneys in the civil case.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/kyron_horman_lawsuit_on_hold_a.html
ANOTHER NEW ARTICLE (from OLive)
“Multnomah County sheriff cites new ‘investigative avenues’ in case of missing Kyron Horman”
(snip)
“There are a couple of investigative pieces that are going to open up,” Staton told The Oregonian Tuesday. “Our belief is they’re going to open up several investigative doors.”
He said the new “investigative avenues” are based on information collected in the early phase of the investigation that are now yielding some results.
The sheriff said it does not include cell phone data or e-mails.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Lt. Ned Walls, who oversees the investigators handling the case, said Tuesday, “We have some new leads, yes, and we have furtherance of old leads.’
“The case is still progressing, still evolving,” Walls said.”
(end snip)
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/multnomah_county_sheriff_cites.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2
Civil Case put on hold for 9 months per the request of the District Attorney who says they now have new leads that are opening up.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/multnomah_county_sheriff_cites.html#incart_river_default
High blink.
Last post Still in moderation?
New news. Sheriff and DA ask for, and GET, a 6 mos. postponement of the civil case. Can this case get any weirder?
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/kyron_horman_lawsuit_on_hold_a.html
Be careful what you wish for vw.
Let me know if I missed a post, thanks.
B
FYI…
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kyron-Horman-civil-suit-delayed-for-criminal-case-181040821.html
Judge agrees to delay civil suit against Terri Horman
11/27/2012 “A judge has delayed the civil suit filed by Kyron Horman’s mother, Desiree Young, against the boy’s step-mother, Terri Horman: Judge Henry Kantor made the ruling last week following a request from Multnomah County District Attorney Michael Shrunk.
Shrunk wrote in his request that information from the civil case could jeopardize their ongoing investigation into Kyron’s disappearance.”
snipped from http://www.katu.com/news/local/Judge-agrees-to-delay-civil-suit-against-Terri-Horman-181069861.html
Multnomah County sheriff cites new ‘investigative avenues’ in case of missing Kyron Horman
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/multnomah_county_sheriff_cites.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2
What a flippin’ roller coaster today.
Would really like to read a statement from DY/Rosenthal soon, because right now I’m having flashbacks to that Multnomah County Councillor’s meeting where Underhill was asked about being “on the right track”.
Asked myself this weekend would LE really contribute to keeping a little girl away from her mother for this long if they screwed up and won’t admit it?
What a difference a couple of days makes . . .
“Multnomah County Sheriff’s Lt. Ned Walls, who oversees the investigators handling the case, said Tuesday, “We have some new leads, yes, and we have furtherance of old leads.’”
old leads . . . LIKE WHAT FOR INSTANCE ?!?!
a SZ for cyrin’ out loud ?!?!
ggrrrr.
Friend, I am beyond a schedule that allows for bio breaks, seriously. I am trying to keep up, going to be rough through next week. I appreciate the support and wish I could freeze the clock or not sleep.
“Multnomah County sheriff cites new ‘investigative avenues’ in case of missing Kyron Horman”
http://www.oregonlive.com
http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/11/27/kyron-horman-missing-civil-suit-against-terri-horman-delayed-and-sealed/
@Rose & Miss Bri
Re: custody of Quinn
Did Desiree not give up Quinn around the same time she gave up Kyron?
She did.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks B.
Iirc, sorry no links, DY gave KH custody when she had to seek medical attention in Canada for liver damage she received after consuming non-FDA approved substances. I’m not implying anything by mentioning this just stating more hearsay.
Driving home from work and the news came on saying MCSO wants Desiree
to postpone her Civil Suit for 9 months due to unspecified developments.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/11/27/kyron-horman-missing-civil-suit-against-terri-horman-delayed-and-sealed/
[...] As predicted at BOC, the civil suit brought by Deisree Young, Kyron’s Mother, against Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and the defacto suspect in his disappearance has been granted an abatement. [...]
wpg says:
November 27, 2012 at 4:07 pm
NEW MEDIA ARTICLE TODAY
snipped from article dated today, November 27 2012 (caps by me):
“The judge in the civil lawsuit involving the death of Kyron Horman was expected to delay those proceedings against Terri Horman AS THE CRIMINAL CASE MOVES FORWARD, a source told KGW Tuesday.
The source said that the civil case will be delayed for 9 months after affidavits were filed by the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and the District Attorney.”‘
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyron-Horman-civil-suit-delayed-for-criminal-case-181040821.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
—————————————-
@WPG:
“death of Kyron Horman” should read “disappearance of Kyron Horman”. For some reason it really upset me when I read “death” and I followed the link, it should be “disappearance”. I guess I still hold on to the hope he is alive somewhere.
? ? ?
I still have hope in my heart that Kyron is safe and sound. Prayers for all who love Kyron.
give or take a couple of months, that will put the date at the 3-year loss of Kyron.(the 9 month delay)
Does EVERYbody think he is no longer alive? I just keep thinking that he just might be alive. Hoping . . .
Blink, do you think any of the diligent researchers on this group may have helped LE to open some doors?
I asked earlier (not that it relates to anything), does anyone know if DY had either of the boys when she married TY? I didn’t see a reply, just wondered.
I know it has.
I do not know if the children attended the wedding, but I can tell you Desiree has not had primary custody of either child since 2004.
B
Bumble says:
“@WPG:
“death of Kyron Horman” should read “disappearance of Kyron Horman”. For some reason it really upset me when I read “death” and I followed the link, it should be “disappearance”. I guess I still hold on to the hope he is alive somewhere.”
Gadzooks, Bumble, I didn’t even notice that. Thank you.
Looks like kgw made the correction, article now says updated at 8:13pm.
ps
Just to be clear, I did not type out that kgw snippet – - I did a copy and paste.
Posters at kgw also noticed the error in the article.
It is very probable imo that LE filed the motion for abatement so DeDe could not be forced to answer the deposition questions.
For as much as I want to believe that LE is finally getting somewhere (and I still don’t have much belief that Terri and DeDe did it) but the timing is uncanny to say the least. I am doubting there are new leads based on old ones.
Sorry to be a negative annie but…..
@mas
This has nothing to do with Dede.
This article and video say the civil case is delayed for 2 years. What is happening with the investigation?! New leads and furtherance of old leads, my brain is awhirl again. Any tidbits, Blink?
—————–
Snipped>>>>
Desiree Young’s attorney filed a motion to abate the civil proceedings Monday. Judge Henry Kantor signed to abate the case until Nov. 26, 2014, according to Multnomah County records.
http://www.kptv.com/story/20200850/deputies-confirm-new-developments-in-kyron-horman-case
Oh duh, Blink, I just found the new thread. You are way ahead of me, as always, TY!
Blink replies to T.Ruth
(snip)
“You can’t argue that abating would interfere with the integrity of witnesses if not deposed, and turn around and argue that deposing them will interfere with their integrity and promote safety as a witness.”
Believe it or not I had the same thought.
Hoping the upcoming release by Judge Kantor might maybe possibly (who knows) touch on this.
@WPG
I should have known the article was “updated”. I was just so taken aback by the phrase. It seems premature for them to be saying that, since no one knows what happened to Ky. No offense was intended.
Where is the new thread?? Oh, wait – this must be it: http://blinkoncrime.com/category/kyron-horman/ (courtesy of Google)
You know, I was reading these recent news links and notice they don’t mention Kaine Horman.
I doubt it means much since the articles are about who is suing whom, justg an observation.
Well, I’m off to read the new link.
@Idahogal says: November 28, 2012 at 11:21 am and 11:47 a.m.
http://www.kptv.com/story/20200850/deputies-confirm-new-developments-in-kyron-horman-case
and
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/kyron_horman_lawsuit_on_hold_a.html
Hiya Blink,
New article:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/multnomah_county_judge_briefly.html
Spark notes: Judge K. decides this suit will impact the investigation. He orders it vacated until next August 1st. A “witness” is involved.
Note to Judge K….didn’t someone file a 27 page motion to that effect a few months ago?
I’m thinking either this new witness has something more definitive on TMH or something on DY or KH.
Otherwise, if it was the SZ, they would have come forward sooner?
If TMH, why are they giving themselves nearly another year to arrest her?