Kyron Horman Missing: Civil Suit Against Terri Horman DELAYED AND SEALED- Prompted By NEW LEADS
Portland, OR- As many of you have been following since June 2010, there is a new development today in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
As predicted at BOC, the civil suit brought by Deisree Young, Kyron’s Mother, against Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and the defacto suspect in his disappearance has been granted an abatement.
In a sealed filing, motions by Assistant District Attorney Michael Schrunk and Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton were granted, delaying the suit . The motions included supporting affidavits that continuing the action as already ruled would compromise the investigation.
The decision presents an ironic twist .
Terri Horman’s lawyers originally fought vehemently to abate the action, but were unsuccessful. As recently as last week, the Judge in the case ordered medical records to be accessible to both parties to the action.
In Judge Kantnor’s decision to NOT abate the suit at the request of Attorney Peter Bunch for Terri Horman, the Multnomah County Prosecutors Office declared “no position” on the matter after being contacted by the court.
It is not known if that order prompted the request to delay the suit .
Sheriff Stanton, Eldin Rosenthal, Norm Frink and Stephen Houze declined comment at press time.
On Monday, Judge Henry Kantor granted the motions to abate the civil proceeding and ordered the motions and affidavits filed by the district attorney and sheriff sealed.
A hearing had been scheduled for Dec. 14 to hear Young’s attorney argue before the court to compel testimony from DeDe Spicher, an alleged witness in the case. Today’s ruling is likely to render a postponement of that proceeding.
Sheriff Dan Staton, told Oregon Live, it is based on early leads that are now panning out:
“There are a couple of investigative pieces that are going to open up,” Staton told The Oregonian Tuesday. “Our belief is they’re going to open up several investigative doors.”
He said the new “investigative avenues” are based on information collected in the early phase of the investigation that are now yielding some results.
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@VW,
(first, I offer you an apple, albeit cyber, as a peace offering, because I value your input, and I did not mean to offend you)
It was not my intent to attack all teachers, just as I understand you are not defending all teachers. People like Logan Storm slip through the cracks, or go unnoticed, or ignored, and it is a fact. Some of the information I have posted indicates that some of these teachers are still around, not by negligence, but intentionally, and it is happening all across the county because either the unions aren’t policing their members, and, or the review boards are not properly completing investigations. It’s just like transferring a pedophile priest to another parish, imo.
To your point, no profession is immune to bad apples, and I totally agree. I don’t know who abducted Kyron. It could be a doctor, or a pastor, or a cop, who showed up to that science fair as a parent, and took him. But, it should at least be considered, given the data and the institutional failures on record, that it could have been a teacher. That’s all I’m trying to say.
Now don’t throw that apple back at me, and I don’t expect you to defend Skyline or PPS, but there is still another problem with the school’s failure, as I see it, and that is how a little boy was taken off their premises without their knowledge, and they are not being held publicly accountable.
IMO, PPS owes an explanation to the public at large in their district as to how this happened, and they should give up some investigative propriety for the greater good. At this point, sending the perp to jail is important, finding Kyron is paramount, but protecting all the other children and learning from the mistakes made seems more realistic.
It begs the question in my mind if the school closing ranks because they failed to provide Kyron a safe environment, or did the school have another, bigger problem with someone on the payroll, like a “pillar of the community” type?
One last thought, fwiw, I have even wondered if TH, being a teacher, may have had knowledge of teacher misconduct, and decided to blackmail someone into helping her. At this point, nothing if off the table in my mind. Someone in that school, took Kyron, in cahoots with TH or not, someone took him and did God knows what.
@erose. look at WHO was on the Task Force & their associates and WHO was AG or his Chief Deputies at the time Task Force was established & it reported. Cross ref any attorneys with Lauren’s “OR bad boys of the Bar” (corruption). Local pta chapters need to form coalitions to effect reorg at State level to create County level
ptas (despite some sparse Counties). then those can form Health & Safety Commitees who look at
this State policy. That reform won’t happen because the State & current middleman ptas are run by paid employees as dominant who will fight against developing lical reform & power shifts to parents.
oh, I didn’t actually mean you should spend your own time doing that erose (tho I may). I just meant it was
relevant to see how this policy got encoded by AG’s Office. If I get curious I’ll also look to see tge impetus for establishing the TF. Must’ve been some incident(s). I’m wondering if this was TF Goldschmidt-connected politically.
Despite doing motherly 24/7 care of Kyron for most of his life, and despite “wifing” Kaine for 7 years, within 1 day on one side Terri was ousted from Kyron’s family, and within 2 weeks on the other side ousted permanently from the Horman family. Like James, she had no family but her parents. These 2 were so ready to immediately oust her and sever relations entirely. I am wondering if any potential SZ’s were from their acquaintance circles knew that, or just someone who heard loose talk on a boys’ nite at a bar. (particularly acquaintances of Kaine.) The abduction was truly hijacked by the parents’ ousting of Terri from the family and the attendant crazy preoccupation with that. Who knew Kaine & Desiree were SO ready to do that & merely needed a trigger? And why did Terri want to get Kyron out of town, same as James? I think their protection is as good a motive for her as self-interest.
vw, thanks for your input, I thought teachers were mandated reporters. I guess the question is, to whom do they report? If the current policy is to report only to administrators and the ball is stopped there, then IMO anyway, it should be expanded, that any report also is given to local LE, or at the very least, the school board. I also think this information should be in writing and of public record. This BS about transferring a teacher to another school is absurd. If we cannot take these little steps to protect our children, shame on us all. I gotta wonder what does a parent do/think if their child tells them some teacher molested them, and it is swept under the rug? Move? IDK, it’s just awful to me that this is going on anywhere. IMO anyone who has access to our children’s welfare, particularly when we’re paying them, needs to have a squeaky clean record, or they need to find another profession. JMO.
Back to Kyron; since LE has this knowledge, of a teacher’s ability to *hit and run* so to speak, I’m hoping they more than thoroughly have looked at all the teachers, particularly any who left town. So here’s another question I have, would a teacher’s records of any disciplinary actions be available for LE to view when I child goes missing from a school, or is that why PPS lawyered up so quickly?
Somehow I was expecting we’d hear from the Judge today. The original reports said in about 2 weeks, so this is the end of *about* 2 weeks. Maybe I’m imagining it, but seems like reports always come out on Friday’s in this case.
Stay or no stay, it would be interesting to see what questions Bunch gave the judge that he would allow his client to answer.
I wonder why LE doesn’t give out the vin number on Storm’s (or any other fugitive’s) vehicle, so that if he were to try to sell it, say via Craigs list or something it would be found? Anyone can pull off license plates and steal someone else’s and put them on? Just wondering.
Speaking of Logan Storm, has anyone been able to find out what his father does for a living? I believe I found his mom, but I can’t find anything on his Dad. I’m still wondering why he (his father) wasn’t arrested for aiding and abetting last time Logan ran.
HISTORY
Former Oregon Attorney General Hardy Myers organized the Sexual Assault Task Force (SATF) in July 1999 at the request of victim advocates frustrated with the persistent lack of improvement in sexual assault response. The SATF incorporated into a private, not-for-profit 501(c)(3) organization in 2003.
https://www.facebook.com/orsatf/info
Training Scholarships: The Claudia Weber Memorial Scholarship Fund was established in 2006 by Attorney General Hardy Myers to honor Claudia’s contributions as a founding member of the Task Force, an original member of the Board of Directors and a lifetime advocate for sexual assault survivors.
http://oregonsatf.org/getinvolved/help-support-our-efforts/
Well, here’s a start, though not sure the philosophy is the same now as it was in 1999. If you click on “about” at the link, you can find all the various and current subcommittees on this task force. It is a non-government, not for profit.
http://oregonsatf.org/about-2/
And yet all other information is so closely guarded.
Rose says:
February 22, 2013 at 7:47 am
snip>
The abduction was truly hijacked by the parents’ ousting of Terri from the family and the attendant crazy preoccupation with that.
The behaviors/activities of all parties PRIOR to the “loss” of Kyron is most likely wherein lies answers we’d ALL like to know.
Other questions that keep surfacing — Who has reacted/behaved in-character, out-of-character—through all these months/years? Who would be most-privy to what went on inside that home—either confidants, privy to gossip, witnesses, frenemies? Why does LE keep saying “last person seen with” when referring to TMH? Why the kibosh on investigative reporting? —or did everyone go undercover? I’d like to think some rogue reporter is compiling information, but simply keeping on the down-low.
So many questions keep rolling through my mind–and tho I don’t comment often, having little to add but frustration—I read here daily if for no other reason than to realize how many others share a concern for Kyron as well as how vulnerable children are in our culture!
Rose says:
February 22, 2013 at 7:47 am
I think their protection is as good a motive for her as self-interest.
erose says:
February 22, 2013 at 4:12 am
______
So very well said.
This really sums it all up:
“At this point, sending the perp to jail is important, finding Kyron is paramount, but protecting all the other children and learning from the mistakes made seems more realistic.”
Rose says:
…And why did Terri want to get Kyron out of town, same as James? I think their protection is as good a motive for her as self-interest…
_____
If that’s the case, and it may be, she sure must have a story to tell that she’s not telling.
Thank you for bringing attention to corruption in the higher echelons of our judicial system. It happens and can play a major role in the outcome of investigations, arrests, trials, and judicial decisions.
Shouldn’t the time be near when the judge needs to give his decision regarding the divorce abatement?
erose says:
February 22, 2013 at 4:12 am
@VW,(first, I offer you an apple, albeit cyber, as a peace offering, because I value your input, and I did not mean to offend you)
It was not my intent to attack all teachers, just as I understand you are not defending all teachers. People like Logan Storm slip through the cracks, or go unnoticed, or ignored, and it is a fact…….
——————–
LOL. And i accept that cool, crisp Braeburn that went into a Waldorf salad for a teacher lunch. Seriously I wasn’t even looking at who was writing about teachers. No offence taken.
Just wanted to let you know that I have very rarely seen or known of teacher perps aside from the above mentioned in my own schools that i’ve taught. I spent a year at a middle school in Hillsboro (same one the TMH subbed in, I think. And at least a couple years in grade schools. But most of my time was/is at the secondary level. However, that doesn’t mean they didn’t, and don’t exist. I do know that false accusations are common at the higher grade levels. And I also know that teachers/aides/janitors etc. might not be aware of each other’s behaviors or dispositions even within a “tight” school.
That said, I would never be one to not blame Skyline…on so many different levels. Yes, a teacher could be to blame, in tangent with TMH, alone, or working with someone outside of the school. Remember that MCSO did try, finally, to get the “log in” records. Too late…but the fact that they wanted them says that they, or the Feds on the task force…must have been considering something related to a Skyline teacher/aide/admistrator who would have access to the password in order to even get into the computer.
Parents rarely know those passwords. And teachers are not supposed to give them out.
They might have also been wanting to find out if Porter really did put Kyron in as absent at 10am. You know my position on this probably. 10am is when kids were regrouping, when absences HAVE TO be recorded by. That she reported officially on a computer with all that chaos going on….kids regrouping, Kyron’s volunteer leaving after reporting him missing, etc. To go to the computer at that precise moment and conclusively report him missing…..hmmm! I would even go so far as to say that those records might have been “messed with” before they were “lost”.
Which doesn’t mean that someone employed at the school had anything to do with Ky’s abduction. But noone was looking for this little boy. He got lost in the shuffle.
I think it’s about 60/30/10 ….. 60% chance that a perp from outside that might have watched Kyron up till or only that day, then took him….30% someone somehow connected with the school or another family. 10% someone connected with the Horman/Young families in some way. Course that would leave DAD in both the 10% and the 60% catagories and an Adam Brown a bit less likely at 60.
I really don’t think Skyline school and the community, in general, are covering up anything more insdidious than their own failure to supervise and protect their kids. I think MCSO has told them not to talk, the district has told them not to talk, the community organizations have instructed them on how not to talk with the media, etc.
Looking at the School’s newspaper a few days ago I saw that this school year the new principal was even, still, saying that the media might be around near Kyron’s birthday and a HR person from the district would be advising them how to react to that possibility. So, the school, parents and community are still gunshy of the media. Why? Well, if you thought your school might close due to being responsible for losing someone on your watch.,,Or if you were a parent that really, really wanted to believe that this was a parent abduction….would you offer anything to the media to the contrary? Especially if you had offered “tips” before and were told to stay quiet.
@Amy’s Sister.
Chief of PA State
Supreme Court just got convicted.
It happens.
@January. overdue, by 4 business days.
Imo he had to get work products from both
sides; maybe they were late. However, I think
he was assigned this divorce case to stay & he’s
trying to justify in writing the intended outcome.
Bunch needs to get him removed from case based
on his staying the other civil trial.
vw says:
February 22, 2013 at 6:15 pm
“They might have also been wanting to find out if Porter really did put Kyron in as absent at 10am. You know my position on this probably.”
************************
vw, can I sask who is “they” in this sentence? Who was trying to find out if Porter really did put Kyron absent at 10am, and why wouldn’t “they”know? IOW, I guess what I’m asking you is, why would “really finding out when he was marked” even be necessary? Wouldn’t that be pretty much public knowledge, normally? I guess I’m still having issues, darn near 3 years later, about how long it took for anyone to say firstly that Kyron was marked absent and secondly, at what time. IIRC, it was around a month before we heard the 10:00 a.m. roll.
I don’t know if any of this is useful, or old news. I’m cleaning off my computer and keep coming across various things. This is from: the John Douglas Mindhunter Forum (7-yr-old, Kyron Horman Missing in OregonGoto page Previous 1, 2, 3 … 42, 43, 44 … 72, 73, 74 Next)
(I didn’t include the name, but have it if anyone wants)
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 1590
Location: Louisiana
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:11 pm Post subject:
——————————————————————————–
About Kaine Andrew Horman:
His birth father is Kurtis Mengel
His adoptive father is Richard Neil Horman
His mother’s name is Kristie Horman (maiden name unknown)
Kaine was married twice. divorced, and has two children. A son, Kyron, with Desiree and a daughter, Kiara, with Terri.
He works for Intel
He’s a UW gradate
He has a brother, Kristian Horman, who was arrested and convicted of molesting an underage girl
Kaine is a Mason and comes from a long line of Masons
http://www.masonicmatrix.com/author/Admin/
There are pictures of Kaines grandfather at this link. Click on photos.
http://edmondsmasons.org/
Of all the information that Kaine & Desiree have given the following link will give you the most information of Kyron Horman.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/09/kyron_hormans_family_keeps_up.html
I guess this is all old news and I should probably just delete it.
T. Ruth says:
February 22, 2013 at 10:41 pm
vw says:
February 22, 2013 at 6:15 pm
“They might have also been wanting to find out if Porter really did put Kyron in as absent at 10am. You know my position on this probably.”
************************
vw, can I sask who is “they” in this sentence? Who was trying to find out if Porter really did put Kyron absent at 10am, and why wouldn’t “they”know? IOW, I guess what I’m asking you is, why would “really finding out when he was marked” even be necessary? Wouldn’t that be pretty much public knowledge, normally? I guess I’m still having issues, darn near 3 years later, about how long it took for anyone to say firstly that Kyron was marked absent and secondly, at what time. IIRC, it was around a month before we heard the 10:00 a.m. roll.
———————————————————
@T.Ruth – here’s why I want to know. Remember, JMO.
It used to be and I think still is (most likely) that you do not mark anyone present – that is the default. You do need to mark tardy, excused, or unexcused absence, but even if that has changed, it doesn’t matter much to my questions below.
1. If Mrs. Porter marked him absent at 10 AM because she thought he was already gone with Terri, then why the bathroom comment or was it actually made at all, or made by someone else TO her instead of by her?
2. If Mrs. Porter marked him absent at 10 AM because she thought he was in the bathroom or anywhere outside the room but inside the school, then why not go look or send someone to look for him?
3. If Mrs. Porter did not mark him absent at 10 AM, was he actually there in the room and she saw him, or did she decide to wait a few minutes to see if he came in the room, and then forgot to mark him absent when he didn’t show up at some point in the morning? I do not believe he was in the room at 10 or after because it should have been more obvious that he did not leave with Terri and more noticeable if he disappeared after that.
As I have said before, I believe it’s quite possible Mrs. Porter thought he was still at school and did not mark him absent. When she realized later (maybe after math?) that he was not there, she assumed he had left with Terri and thought she would mark him absent as soon as possible – but with lunch, the talent show, and science fair clean-up, she didn’t get to it. Then she forgot and left the building as soon as it was acceptable – I’m sure most or all of the teachers had come early since school opened early and a lot was happening, and most were ready for their weekend to start.
When Kaine and Terri showed up, I believe the secretary checked the computer and saw he was not marked absent. I’m sure she would have called Mrs. Porter, in any case, to ask if she had any idea where he might have gone. When Mrs. Porter said he was not in school from 10 AM on, I believe the secretary marked him absent at that time. At that point, I don’t think they would have thought of that as anything more than being sure the school and LE had correct information. Later, neither of them would want to bring up that no one had marked Kyron absent even though he was gone all day.
I do not believe an attendance printout would have shown when Kyron was marked absent or by whom because it was still the same attendance day (our attendance day used to end at 4:30 PM). (I think after a particular attendance day ends according to the computer program, a change may be more obvious, but that’s hearsay from an attendance secretary.) I do think that knowledgeable computer people could tell by examining the log-in information who marked Kyron absent and when. Does that matter? To me, it does because it speaks to Mrs. Porter’s supervisory skills, is a factor in lost time searching for Kyron, and could even tell me (if I were LE) whether Mrs. Porter and the secretary honestly admitted to Mrs. Porter’s mistake or covered it up.
ALL OF THIS IS JMO – and may not be what happened, of course. I’m just speaking to why I would want this information.
T. Ruth says:
February 22, 2013 at 1:27 pm
vw, thanks for your input, I thought teachers were mandated reporters. I guess the question is, to whom do they report? If the current policy is to report only to administrators and the ball is stopped there, then IMO anyway, it should be expanded, that any report also is given to local LE, or at the very least, the school board. I also think this information should be in writing and of public record.
————————————-
Maybe this snipped information will help. This is from 2011 information on the district website. It is not significantly different from what I practiced at PPS, except that I do not remember the specific reference to abuse by a district staff member. It was ALWAYS my responsibility to be sure a report was done, which meant making sure the administrator did it or doing it myself. (Sadly, I’ve done more reports in general than I wish were necessary.)
http://www.oregon.gov/dhs/children/pages/abuse/cps/report.aspx
Who do I contact if I suspect child abuse?
According to ORS 419B.015, “a person making a report of child abuse shall make an oral report by telephone or otherwise to a local Child Welfare office of the Department of Human Services, to the division’s designee, or to a law enforcement agency within the county where the person making the report is at the time of the contact.” A law enforcement agency can be defined as a local police department, county sheriff, county juvenile department, or Oregon State Police.
———————————-
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/departments/student-services/356.htm
“Sexual conduct and child abuse by Portland Public Schools employees will not be tolerated. This manual outlines procedures and training requirements for child abuse and sexual conduct prevention and reporting.”
Reporting Procedures
The following reporting procedures are to be followed by public school employees, all of whom are mandated reporters according to Oregon State law (ORS 419B.005 to 419B.050):
1. Employees are required to report the facts of suspected child abuse to the principal (or principal’s designee) immediately. The school employee who suspects, observes signs, or becomes aware of any of the following should report immediately:
Physical abuse, with or without injuries
Sexual abuse and sexual exploitation
Neglect
Mental Injury and abandonment
Threat of harm
2. Without delay, the employee, the principal, or principal’s designee, reports to the Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline, 503-731-3100.
Best practice would have the employee and principal reporting together, completing a child abuse reporting form as the report is made. Employees who choose to make the report independently must notify the principal and/or principal designee immediately, to ensure the school office is ready to receive case workers and/or law enforcement officials. In the rare case of principal or their designee making a report for an employee, he/she will notify the employee that the report was made and document that information in writing. The employee should check back if he/she does not hear from the principal or designee in a timely manner. However, if the employee does not hear back from the principal or principal’s designee by the end of the school day, the employee must make the report directly to the Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline. In all cases, a reporting form must be completed and filed with the principal’s office immediately.
Contacting the Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline to make a report fulfills the legal obligation of mandated reporters to report suspected abuse. The Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline will communicate with Portland Police to coordinate response services for each situation. The principal/administrator, principal/administrator’s designee, or employee may request information on what action will be taken.
It is the responsibility of the employee who observes the abuse or determines the concern to report it or cause it to be reported. In the rare case when the principal/administrator or their designee is making the report for an employee, the employee must follow up with the principal/administrator or designee to make certain the report was made. Documentation of each report should be recorded and kept on file in the school office (see attached PPS Child Abuse Report Log.) The employee’s mandatory reporting obligation is not fulfilled until he or she confirms that the report is made.
It is critical that the report be made as early in the school day as possible. This is to help avoid the situation in which a child is sent home prior to Portland Police or Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline workers being able to conduct an interview, if deemed necessary, with the child at school.
3. If District staff members observe other District staff abusing or have reason to suspect abuse of a student by a District staff, the staff member should immediately report the facts to his or her principal or administrator. The employee or principal/administrator and employee will then contact the Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline. The principal or administrator will also contact the appropriate Deputy Superintendent and the Human Resources Legal Counsel. These procedures will ensure that the Department of Human Resources is notified of the incident and that there is a uniform District response.
4. Suspected child abuse reporting should not be delegated to a third party such as the school counselor before reporting to the Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline. Once a child discloses, no further interviews should take place unless directed otherwise by the police or Department of Human Services workers. It is appropriate to inform the school counselor of an abuse report in order that follow-up support can be provided if necessary.
5. Under no circumstances should any school employee contact the parents of a child about whom a report has been made. It is the responsibility of the Portland Police or Department of Human Services workers to contact the parents and follow up with the school.
6. When the principal or administrator is out of the building and the principal or administrator’s designee is not available, the employee shall report the suspected child abuse directly to the Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline at 503-731-3100 and complete the reporting form in the principal or administrator’s office immediately. Each building shall have a written procedure that provides follow-up on those reports made when the principal or administrator and their designee is not available.
7. This procedure will be communicated to the staff at the beginning of the school year along with information about the legal responsibility of mandated reporters.
Each school building must have a posting that includes the name and contact information for the principal/administrator or the principal/administrator’s designee as the person designated for the school building to receive reports of suspected child abuse by school employees and the procedures the person will follow upon the receipt of a report.
8. MESD, Multnomah County nurses, and staff from other outside agencies are authorized to report directly to the police or Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline, after which the principal/administrator or designee is notified in person or in writing.
School Plan for Reporting Suspected Child Abuse
1. All school employees will report suspected child abuse to the principal/administrator or principal/administrator’s designee immediately.
2. The principal/administrator or principal/administrator’s designee will obtain the student’s registration form and call the Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline, 503-731-3100, immediately and make the report. This will be done with the employee who made the initial report whenever possible.
3. The principal/administrator or principal/administrator’s designee will fill out the Child Abuse Report Log as they make the report, or immediately afterwards. The employee will be kept informed of the status of the report and will have access to view a copy of the report filed.
If at all possible, the principal/administrator or principal/administrator’s designee will make the call to the Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline with the employee present. This can facilitate the fulfilling of the employee’s legal obligation to confirm that the report was made as well as expedite the process if the Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline worker asks to speak to the employee directly. There should be a plan in place for classroom coverage for employees who are classroom teachers and individuals who directly supervise children.
Guidelines if the Principal/Administrator or Designee is Unavailable
Best practice would have the employee and principal or administrator reporting suspected child abuse together from a private and confidential setting; however, if the school employee who suspects child abuse is informed that the principal/administrator and principal/administrator’s designee are unavailable, or out of the building, then the school should have a plan in place for enabling the employee to call the Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline from a private and confidential location.. All employees should be informed of and provided a copy of this plan at the beginning of the school year.
@VW, Thank you for being so gracious. I should have addressed your primary issue, which as I see it, was the point of a teacher being a mandated reporter. I do not think the teachers are the failure in the system. I think it is what is done with the reports, standards and practices and such, that is (or at least was) the problem.
I feel like the Skyline community and school staff and employees have been manipulated into silence by psychological tactics. They seem mostly convinced that TH took Kyron, therefore there is no threat to their child, therefore business as usual, except for that pesky downplayed detail that TH could not have personally taken him. If they dare think outside the “TH did it box” it seems to me they are being held hostage by the threat of closing their school if they choose to speak (as in freedom of) about what must be a traumatic experience for most all of them, never mind getting to the truth of it. Carrots or sticks.
BTW, I agree with your 60/30/10.
Now that is just down right scary.
vw says:
February 22, 2013 at 6:15 pm
snip>
Especially if you had offered “tips” before and were told to stay quiet.
MockingbirdSings says:
February 23, 2013 at 12:39 am
“When Kaine and Terri showed up, I believe the secretary checked the computer and saw he was not marked absent.”
That could be, MockingbirdSings, although the bus driver called the school and passed on her received info to K and T that Kyron hadn’t been there all day. Blink has said that MissP was already gone for the day when K and T arrived at the school. Presuming S.Hall was the supplier of this info to the bus driver, she had to base it on something.
I don’t know if the bus driver followed a protocol and/or initiated the call to the school on her own, or if one of the H’s requested the bus driver to make contact.
ps
Part of a string of changes and events in what was occurring or had occurred in Kyron’s environments (home and school) – - – a substitute bus driver from Kyron’s usual.
Does it have any significance, who knows?
I noticed that the monetary goal on Kelly’s gofundme page for donations to to fund Desiree’s civil suit has has been changed to $50,000 which is half the amount of the original goal of of $100,000. Did Rosenthal reduce his rate or has the civil suit been scraped or somehow changed in scope. Or maybe they just decided that the $100,000 amount was not doable.
http://www.gofundme.com/kyronhorman
cd, apollies in advance, answering your query resulted in my updated respectfully submitted rant in Ky’s case which bears no reflection on you whatsoever, or your very relative point.
It is likely it now matches anticipated and specified out of pocket expenses in someone’s retainer agreement.
In the event of a fees award to EITHER party, the fees need to reflect reasonable and customary rates for the work preformed.
Frankly, with that brief, subsequent replies and I think I counted 2 court appearances, I am not seeing how Rosenthal billed out $13K to date. If he is using the ratio of what one spends to award ratio, he should have written a much longer and meritorious complaint.
You have one parent with a charity who claimed he had a six figure legal bill who openly admitted part of that was an effort to “get Terri to talk”. I know a few very wealthy folks who have gone through some nasty divorces with what seemed like bi-monthly filings and quarterly court appearances. No way in the Universe as I have said multiple times is the trust account ca-chinging to six figures- so what is Kaine talking about exactly?
That would sure as hell be one reason I would want a stay, especially if that LE who was quick to help me file, was no longer going to back me up. If you are requesting fees an outline of those fees must be presented to the court. What does Rackner’s billing report against retainer say? 4.0 hrs Reviewing text messages sent from Detective Soandso.
Was that announcement Kaine’s way of stating .org funds were contributing to the civil legal fund? Is Rackner going to present a six figure bill in this case pre-discovery? LOL, No way in Hell. Not unless she wants to become the next suspect. Glib, a tad, but let’s be reasonable here already.
That is the hottest of messes if that is the case.
On to the tort action which Kyron’s Father, who has primary physical custody, is not a party, nor is the actual crime scene location or staff, as indicated in the action’s complaint narrative.
Desiree appeared recently and briefly addressed the suit as if to say Underhill will play Underdog and replacing the F with a T from his varsity sweater he will make FORT into TORT.
That would be the same guy who already asked for the public’s help in acquiring leads that were not based on other information or opinion two years ago. The same guy I have images of watching Rosenthal and Desiree on the steps of the court house announcing the suit. ( BTW: what is the deal with these reporters not seeing the DA on the courthouse steps and asking his response on site? This is my new murder business capital, bar none)
Translation: Detectives from MCSO are telling her that Schrunk ( the guy who penned the abatement just PRIOR to leaving his post) was not willing to prosecute ( who knows, did we have a grand jury refuse to indict?) but Underhill will convene a new GJ and therefore will not participate in the civil action due to compromise of a 2 1/2 year old mp case who Kantor already denied an abatement for in favor of fresher witness memory and warmer trails?
Here’s a free follow up question to Bernstein, WMW or any other MSM takers to ask Mrs. Young:
1. Does that information come directly from the prosecutors office?
2. What sort of constant contact have you had with that office that filed an abatement to stay the suit you were hoping would produce new information and developments in Kyron’s disappearance after announcing to Judge Kantor they had no position on the matter? Was that surprising to you?
3. If you know Kyron was last seen on school grounds, what was the motivation for excluding them from the lawsuit?
4. Do you personally believe that with your admitted knowledge of whatever “new investigative avenues” have been developed as a result of your suit will prove fruitful to locating your son?
###
Is my run-on sentence structure making your head hurt? It is SUPPOSED TO. It makes no sense. Not one freaking line did I just spend my Saturday afternoon opining and writing have ANYTHING to do with finding this sweetie boy whose image both “camps” splash across trucks, websites and solicitous endeavors.
If you need money to find a child 9 separate Federal and State agencies could not, do you think perhaps it might not be the target is wrong? Everyone has their hands out, 2 years ago half the MCSO made double salary over this case directly, sought millions more funds and the only information we have that it has amounted to a hill of beans is from Kaine’s words at a closed exparte hearing where it was learned that LE told him something that we would not be available to substantiate and the respondent could not refute without essentially waiving her rights.
That would be the guy with a vested interest in affecting his divorce case, as in, he was the only one providing the “marital lifestyle” with a wife that was the primary caregiver to BOTH his children.
WTF does closer than they have ever been to finding Kyron mean, btw? The atmosphere, troposphere? Galaxy far, far away?
Just because I am so pissed at the status of this case, I am going to do something I never do, which is discuss proprietary LE sensitive info- albeit “blindly.”
Meaning, I am not going to name the case, and I am not going to take guesses, nor comment past this post, whatsoever.
In a case I was professionally directly involved with of a missing minor, I offered the opinion to the lead investigator that under the statute in that state, it was appropriate to seek appointment of a GAL. (Intentionally vague) From a strategy perspective, there were numerous advantages, investigatively speaking.
I learned years later that my recommendation never made it past that individual, and that had it- it would have been implemented and likely changed the face of the entire investigation. Which was, unfortunately, less than stellar.
Not tooting my horn here. The laws are on the books with no help from me. They are laws to protect our children and should be utilized accordingly.
Lastly, spoiler alert.
If you pile rocks on the chest of a person, they will crush them to death. If you hold them underwater, they will drown.
In neither scenario is either party capable of speech.
B
anyone else wondering why the search for DAD–attempt
police murderer and dangerous to public at large–was
never as intense as that for Dorn & Storm?
(((I’m pissed off, too.)))
Blink,
Why can’t I see or access the comments on any threads including this one?
You can. Maint work this eve, should be good to go.
B
Blink,
Jeepers, if you respond to my question I can’t see it . . .
Well, I get the rocks & water–that’s Terri.
Imo if divorce is stayed, would love to see Part 2 & 3.
Thank you for how you spent Sat.
For Kaine’s charity to attain & remain 501c3 he had to
change the mission to all missing kids, not just Kyron.
He explained the change of title & mission on BKH Foundation
in conjunction with his events. Imo he can pay himself a salary
& expenses which helps pay his attorney’s costs (& explainable
family Calif trips such as for awards), maybe deduct his home office,
some of Kiara’s child care, other Admin expenses. But he can’t directly
pay his own Court costs in the divorce imo.
erose says:
February 23, 2013 at 5:02 am
Now that is just down right scary.
vw says:
February 22, 2013 at 6:15 pm
snip>
Especially if you had offered “tips” before and were told to stay quiet.
*********
erose, you took to words out of my mouth.
vw, I also wanted to ask, if anyone was aware of such a thing happening? Do you know of someone who tried to offer LE a tip and was told to back off? Or are you just referring to the folks being asked to not publicly reveal timeline information, such as Wendy Furher or TK? Which is weird enough.
Thanks MbS for the pps mandated reporting requirements. Looks good to me, with one exception. The teacher is *only* required to report to the principal. JMO, but I think (in order to prevent the potential of things getting brushed under the table), the reporting should be done by the teacher simultaneously to the principal AND either LE, or the hotline. Thusly, no one party has the only information there is.
I mean, let’s say the principal is a perv, (I AM NOT saying that is the case here, but we do know there have been some in other schools around the nation). (Just google it, one example: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/11/30/an-fbi-dads-misadventures-with-spyware-expose-high-school-principals-child-porn-searches/) Anyway, isn’t it possible that principal has something, IDK what, but something, he/she could hold over the reporting teacher’s head if that teacher insisted on reporting, if the principal just happened to be sharing some porn files with the teacher who was being reported? IMO, the reporting should be independent of the school system. No different than a financial independent audit. (No comparison, I know, but I hope you all get what I mean.) And I just don’t get how these teachers keep their licenses to teach and just move on, (according to the stats erose submitted) which I guess is whole ‘nother topic.
Glad BOC is back and working – really missed the discussions.
Now, naively, I’ve always given LE the benefit, considering them to have the highest of ethics. hahahaha
However.
Now, realistically, I’m realizing that LE (Portland, anyway), including laywers, DAs, judges, even the local news outlets, are just plain slipping and sliding in slimy corruption, don’t really care about doing what is right – just busy covering their own scuzzy behinds, trying to not get caught themselves for the Bad Things they probably do or have done. Correct me if I’m wrong. (I wish I was)
The Bad Guys — this would include KH, DAD, Logan Storm, TMH, DDS, and almost ALL other individuals mentioned in the search for Kyron – are doing whatever they want with no worries about getting caught.
I can’t find The Good Guys. Where are The Good Guys? The only thing I can see is that a little boy has been made to pay for all of this and nobody really seems to care, except those who write here, but can’t really make anything happen without someone telling what they did to Kyron.
Monday morning rant. Done now.
Ruth says:
February 25, 2013 at 5:13 pm
erose says:
February 23, 2013 at 5:02 am
Now that is just down right scary.
vw says:
February 22, 2013 at 6:15 pm
snip>
Especially if you had offered “tips” before and were told to stay quiet.
*********
erose, you took to words out of my mouth.
vw, I also wanted to ask, if anyone was aware of such a thing happening? Do you know of someone who tried to offer LE a tip and was told to back off? Or are you just referring to the folks being asked to not publicly reveal timeline information, such as Wendy Furher or TK? Which is weird enough.
########
Hi Erose and Truth. Just getting to some questions. Regarding the above:
It is scary. That those who had information in the beginning were told to be quiet. For example, what Tanner told the FBI, and then Staton. FBI didn’t tell him to be quiet. They didn’t worry about the investigation.
What comes very directly to mind is the person/persons who observed Kyron with the chaperone. and the chaperone herself/himself. Parent-led groups, according to the PTA president, toured with the kids. Remember the PTA president’s daughter was in Kyron’s class? So a parent had had something to say about the group that Kyron was, or was not, in. That information would have been critical. So would the actual “sighting” of Kyron with a “chaperone and two kids”. How far did LE take that information? Someone had to have known Kyron to have reported that. Noone, as in Kaine, has disputed that TMH’s email regarding the chaperone, was a lie.
So who saw Kyron, knew he was there with other children, and reported it? Who did this person report it to?
Was it TMH and Kaine or was it LE? If they did report it to the secretary or the parents that info must have gone to Staton.
What did this “chaperone” look like? What did the kids look like? When were they seen? Where were they and in what direction were they going? Did anything look out of the norm? Were they near an entrance?
Maybe the 911 calls from the school indicated this information? And maybe Staton repressed it for some crazy reason?
But the fact remains….if Staton knew this right away why was there no Amber alert? Even the little girl in Colorado had an Amber alert called. Later Gates, i think, said they didn’t know the identity of the abductor.
BS! With this information given about the chaperone, why not?
They, LE, kept the public who could help in the dark! This is why, after no “indictment” of TMH in August, that Staton said in December that he’d thought the case was going cold.
So what did he do? In January he brought the Feds back. But too late. I think they, the feds, were the ones behind trying to get the REAL information out of Skyline. Just like they were the ones who would not put the gag order on Tanner and who knows how many others that could have alerted the public to where to start looking and who to start looking for.
So, short answer, the Feds and the task force, were trying to find out when Kyron was really marked absent.
But….MBS….gave you the lowdown on that. Too little, too late. Even if Kyron really had been marked, it looks like someone got in there. Attendance records have to be kept, however. So I really wonder how the District could “lose” the log-on info for that day.
Rose says:
February 23, 2013 at 4:41 pm
anyone else wondering why the search for DAD–attempt
police murderer and dangerous to public at large–was
never as intense as that for Dorn & Storm?
*********
Who is Dorn?
To quote a friend, yep, yep and yep. Is the principal only mandated to contact the superintendent? We have seen how the story can get watered down as it rises through the chain of command.
T. Ruth says:
February 25, 2013 at 5:39 pm
snip>
The teacher is *only* required to report to the principal. JMO, but I think (in order to prevent the potential of things getting brushed under the table), the reporting should be done by the teacher simultaneously to the principal AND either LE, or the hotline. Thusly, no one party has the only information there is.
“Lastly, spoiler alert.
If you pile rocks on the chest of a person, they will crush them to death. If you hold them underwater, they will drown.
In neither scenario is either party capable of speech.”
B
Blink,
Do you believe there were enough rocks and enough water way back in the summer of 2010 to not legally contest the TRO in the summer of 2010?
And that a parent “was in so deep” so to speak, they were not capable of fighting for their baby?
I believe TH believed LE when they told her that they believed she was involved and would never see her kids again once they locked her up. I also believe had it not been for her retaining Houze, she would have been arrested for something.
B
Thanks for that, Blink.
Given the caliber and experience of Houze, though, I would think he would have been able to access the situation or find a legal route to ascertain whether or not this was a LE tactic with no strength.
He’s allowed his client to be separated from her daughter since the day he was retained. Not sure what to make of that.
I respectfully disagree wpg. Houze had/has one job. To keep his client from arrest. There is no legal route for him to assess a case against his client outside of relying on his past extensive experience with the DA and LE in general. He was thwarted in his attempts (as well as Bunch) in securing documents via FOIA as well.
The court disallowed TH from seeing her daughter w/LE’s help, he can’t re-write the constitution.
B
@TRuth . Sorry, I meant DornER:
http://m.lvsun.com/news/2013/feb/08/trail-suspected-cop-killer-dorner-goes-cold/
The way I see it DAD was initially on a par with him,
except DAD’s cop happened to live.
He fired at police pursuers.
He was a danger to the public at large to the same extent as
Dorner with what was known then, imo.
Dressed in camo & ready to roll.
Yet Dorner was pursued thru forest areas by hundreds, and DAD was
“we lost his trail.”
Kaine’s IRS 990 for 2010:
http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/27-3291828/kyron-horman-foundation.aspx
Will he voluntarily publish income & expenses for
2011 and 2012? Publish any audited financial statements?
one event in March, one in June, one in August.
wonder who “they” and “the others” are in the quote below? The Foundation is not giving “the missing” advertising if the Foundation doesn’t even “name” them:
http://www.bringkyronhome.org/
“Formerly The Run for Kyron we have expanded the name to match the scope of the Kyron Horman Foundation. Come walk or run for Kyron, Lindsey, and others as we gather in support of missing children and child safety!!”
what does running for “child safety” mean? kind of like “milk is good”. Imo creepy.
Kaine’s News page:
http://www.bringkyronhome.org/news/
not much about Kyron.
Whole lot on the divorce tho.
Found the Donors. No Financials.
http://www.bringkyronhome.org/thank-you/
erose says:
February 25, 2013 at 7:20 pm
To quote a friend, yep, yep and yep. Is the principal only mandated to contact the superintendent? We have seen how the story can get watered down as it rises through the chain of command.
T. Ruth says:
February 25, 2013 at 5:39 pm
snip>
The teacher is *only* required to report to the principal. JMO, but I think (in order to prevent the potential of things getting brushed under the table), the reporting should be done by the teacher simultaneously to the principal AND either LE, or the hotline. Thusly, no one party has the only information there is.
@@@@@@
The law makes it clear. We cannot assume that reporting abuse to couselors or principals is going to fulfill our obligation as a mandatory reporter.
They (counselors, principals) are only getting the same training as we are.
Therefore, even though you talk to them, the teacher must make that call to Protective Services.
I’ve done it several times. It’s the only way to make sure your suspicians are founded and the child is being
watched over.
That’s why all that chain up to and including the pres. of Penn State can NOT be excused of derelect of duty. And are complicit in that pig Sandusky’s crimes against those babies he “harvested” and hurt.
@wpg. As fine as Blink’s answer is (it needs no more), my lay thinking
about “whether or not this was a LE tactic with no strength” is LE was in
such a strong position, their failure to arrest the only person
they’d hotly pursued since the get go that I am shocked she wasn’t arrested.
Why?
1) MCSO had Rudy ready to testify on the mfh, whose credibility was corroborated
by some kinds of sexting or relationship evidence with Terri.
2) MCSO had the missing child’s father ready to testify she was a drunk no
account skunk who always treated the kids like crap and really wanted to ship K off to Medford.
3) MCSO had mother eager to testify she was a no account lying skunk & Kyron
wept when he had to return to her. She would corroborate Kaine’s story Terri wanted him
out just like James.
4) Kaine’s BKH site still has Terri as the last to see him at 845.
MCSO would hold that party line. Imo that’s the
reason MCSO told Tanner & others not to vary that story with media.
5) MCSO had pretty, sweet Ms Porter ready to testify she heard Terri say she was taking K to doctor’s.
6) Keefer the principal, a figure of authority jurors would trust, would testify Porter was a fine reliable teacher,
that’s why he kept her on, and pps procedures were followed that day, and no the Fair was not different than usual.
7) the public pressure to solve the disappearance of this lad from inside a pps was immense. Pretrial
publicity had hung Terri long ago with prospective jurors.
Rather than “the Constitution” keeping Terri from Kiara, I submit it’s a fatally flawed Oregon RO statute which is Comstitutionally flawed. The Statute should have due process built in for the accused party in a way this Statute does not. this RO case is in great posture to appeal all the way to the Supremes. Go recruit Ken Starr & his legal clinic students for that one.
It’s not hard to see why these policies could result in the school going into CYA mode, and the reporting teacher left wondering, wtf?, and parents left completely in the dark.
I don’t think schools have a problem with reporting, as long as they are not reporting on one of their own employees. This creates a huge legal problem for the district, obviously if legal and the district are informed before the parents. Once legal and the district are aware, who is to say that the hotline and the parents are ever informed?
There should not be protocols that inhibit the person witnessing the crime, from reporting the crime directly to LE. If someone witnesses a murder in the workplace, they call the police first, not their supervisor. Murder is a crime, as is child sexual abuse, as is child abuse, so the witness should call LE first. It’s crazy to think that the superintendent should be notified before the parents. That’s a legal maneuver, and it’s where the system is broken.
MockingbirdSings says:
February 23, 2013 at 1:03 am
snips>
3. If District staff members observe other District staff abusing or have reason to suspect abuse of a student by a District staff, the staff member should immediately report the facts to his or her principal or administrator. The employee or principal/administrator and employee will then contact the Child Abuse and Neglect Hotline. The principal or administrator will also contact the appropriate Deputy Superintendent and the Human Resources Legal Counsel. These procedures will ensure that the Department of Human Resources is notified of the incident and that there is a uniform District response.
5. Under no circumstances should any school employee contact the parents of a child about whom a report has been made. It is the responsibility of the Portland Police or Department of Human Services workers to contact the parents and follow up with the school.
Blink, do you believe Terri would benefit from requesting a GAL for Kiara?
At this point I am not sure, but I am a believer in GAL assignments under the best interests of the child standard regardless.
B
Well, if TMH had any idea of what might have happened to Kyron, or even had suspicions about KH engineering an elaborate scheme to keep the children and dump her (maybe with the help of a SO at the time?), wouldn’t TMH have been bound to tell her lawyers?
-Telling them everything she knew, which is supposed to be ‘the rule’.
And I always wonder anyway, if lawyers are told things (like Kyron is alive and this is where they sent him?), do they totally HAVE to keep that information confidential?
It’s one of three things:
1. Either the lawyers KNOW that he is alive and OK and safe somewhere away from KH, so they are waiting patiently for KH to make a slip.
or
2. Maybe the lawyers were told that Kyron is no longer around, so they figure it doesn’t matter anyway.
or
3. The lawyers realize that TMH will NEVER tell anything, even if she knows it, so will do whatever they can to get her off and collect really fat fees for doing not much of anything, except telling her to keep quiet, not talk to anybody.
I’m thinking more and more that she really doesn’t know much of anything. Can’t figure out why, though, she is willing to leave her daughter for this long.
And they will use whatever means they can – probably reasonable doubt for a SZ being involved – to get her to go free.
Around and around and still no answers.
On a different subject, does anyone know if Kyron’s teacher is one of the “dim bulbs” in the bunch? Or a really bright one?
I often wonder if she made some decisions about Kyron herself. After all, she would have had a certain amount of contact with TMH, and may have figured that she wasn’t a good stepmother, had a lifestyle the teacher disapproved of, found someone else who she thought would be better parents for Kyron. It’s possible, isn’t it? Plus, little kids often say things they overhear or see at home, whether they understand them or not. It would definitely add to a ‘loving teacher’ making a decision she thought would be better for the little guy.
And whether or not the other teachers at the school thought it possible, they certainly wouldn’t throw her onto the fire, would they?
http://dshs.washingtonsharedparenting.com/view.php?id=8508
Wow, just interesting. Don’t know when this was written, but the Google cache says it was there, January 2013.
oops. J Starr became Pres of Baylor
http://www.unf.edu/lectures/
no more Con law legal clinic students; I retract my idea.
What a good fit; a match made in heaven (yes, that’s snark).
Is this Kaine’s step dad?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1988-R-Neil-Horman-President-Opus-Development-Day-Care-Press-Photo-86-/200813269081
I never knew he owned or was part of a Day Care. (Maybe I’m just waaay behind here.)
OMG, Blink, a nine course post. We will be digesting and dissecting for awhile. Thanks for giving us something to chew on.