Kyron Horman Missing: Civil Suit Against Terri Horman DELAYED AND SEALED- Prompted By NEW LEADS
Portland, OR- As many of you have been following since June 2010, there is a new development today in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
As predicted at BOC, the civil suit brought by Deisree Young, Kyron’s Mother, against Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and the defacto suspect in his disappearance has been granted an abatement.
In a sealed filing, motions by Assistant District Attorney Michael Schrunk and Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton were granted, delaying the suit . The motions included supporting affidavits that continuing the action as already ruled would compromise the investigation.
The decision presents an ironic twist .
Terri Horman’s lawyers originally fought vehemently to abate the action, but were unsuccessful. As recently as last week, the Judge in the case ordered medical records to be accessible to both parties to the action.
In Judge Kantnor’s decision to NOT abate the suit at the request of Attorney Peter Bunch for Terri Horman, the Multnomah County Prosecutors Office declared “no position” on the matter after being contacted by the court.
It is not known if that order prompted the request to delay the suit .
Sheriff Stanton, Eldin Rosenthal, Norm Frink and Stephen Houze declined comment at press time.
On Monday, Judge Henry Kantor granted the motions to abate the civil proceeding and ordered the motions and affidavits filed by the district attorney and sheriff sealed.
A hearing had been scheduled for Dec. 14 to hear Young’s attorney argue before the court to compel testimony from DeDe Spicher, an alleged witness in the case. Today’s ruling is likely to render a postponement of that proceeding.
Sheriff Dan Staton, told Oregon Live, it is based on early leads that are now panning out:
“There are a couple of investigative pieces that are going to open up,” Staton told The Oregonian Tuesday. “Our belief is they’re going to open up several investigative doors.”
He said the new “investigative avenues” are based on information collected in the early phase of the investigation that are now yielding some results.
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timeline of news stories & links to that week’s events
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51979
9/28 Kaine announces fundraiser for searches (hmmm)
9/28 bios support Task Force
10/1 lack of funds precludes participation of smaller towns.
10/1 Gresham opts out
10/1 Desiree hits the road unexpectedly for a late afternoon appeal for public donations
to Reward with a target of $350,000 (Terri’s defense costs)
what depo content of Kaine’s would make Rees represent
it must remain confidential from Terri now of a magnitude
to stay a 3 year old civil suit, but would be OK
to disclose in 6 months subsequent to “something specific”
coming to fruition?
I suppose the bigger issue is that they believe they will be in a position to prosecute which would stay the civil proceeding (most likely, I want to say Kantor says that in his original denial to abate) until completion. At that point it would be meritorious or not.
From where I sit in can only be construed as inculpatory to Terri.
B
i was looking at old news stories on this case and i found this:
from feb 2011, 8 months after kyrons disapearance:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/116871428.html
“FBI steps up role in search for Kyron
By Anita Kissée KATU News and KATU.com Staff and the AP Published: Feb 24, 2011 at 3:34 PM PDT
The task force also has to chase all potential leads. For example, they have to interview 124 sex offenders in the area of Skyline School to make sure no attorney can poke holes in the case once it is solved.”
it seems as if they are saying that they are going to interview sex offenders as an afterthought. if it is a crime as blink thinks with a suspect zero, it would seem to me that nothing like that was looked into, not even the possiblility that it could have been a local sex offender! this is amazing to me.
I truly believe the mfh allegation drove the theory in this case. It is very true that from a profiling perspective that once a person is deemed capable ( by some investigative means- does not have to be proven or even more than a possibility) of acting on securing the (or solicitation of same) death of a spouse that the individual would be able to apply those humanity deficits to a child that was not theirs. It would elevate Kyron’s risk if true. Nobody in criminal analysis would refute that.
However, adding the variable that the school had a virtual billboard out front for weeks announcing the science fair and likely hand outs with instructions on what things went there and parking preferences- A profiler has got to consider that a few hundred yards away where a home is constantly raided for drugs and some tin metal racket- it could be as simple as some pedo high on drugs driving past, seeing the sign and walking in to act out. Same can be true for what I believe this is- a very organized offender paying attention to the community and possible securing of a child victim.
I am not sure the general public who has not studied this type of offender profile in practice can relate to how masterfully insidious they are. They boogeyman is real, and there are thousands of them around us everyday- very hard to catch.
B
desiree at wall
http://www.katu.com/news/local/104184569.html
Kyron’s mom wants help to increase reward
By Steve Benham KATU.com Staff Published: Oct 1, 2010 at 4:21 PM PDT Last Updated: Oct 1, 2010 at 7:30 PM PDT
is there a blink on crime section for sex trafficking?
im not certain thats what happened in vancouver but the family thinks so. sorry if i am off topic disrupting this thread.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/Search-is-on-for-teen-isabella-castillo-feared-caught-in-sex-trafficking-ring-200381701.html
VANCOUVER, Wash. – A family searching for their missing teenager fears she may be targeted by a sex-trafficking ring.
Vancouver police are investigating the disappearance of 16-year-old Isabella Castillo, and her family is asking for the public’s help to find her.
Her family saw Isabella two days ago and thinks she’s caught up in sex trafficking because one of her friends told them they’d seen her around with another girl who is known in the local sex-trafficking world. That girl is used by sex traffickers to recruit other girls by befriending them. She then lures them in, grooms them and gets them to run away. The girls are never heard from again.
@Blink
Unless Kyron is recovered I do not believe there will be adjudication in his case, and even then, I have strong doubts.
What was the date that Desiree gave that press conf at the wall of hope that was so painful to watch?
B
————-
I think it was Oct 1, 2010 below is link to video I found
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Kyrons-mom-pleads-for-more-reward-dollars/0mTw80sn8EWxvX2S-wqbyA.cspx
Thanks all- More than anything that sounds like Desiree had just learned the size of the retainer that was in the text to Cook ultimately.
B
RE: grasshopper says:
March 28, 2013 at 4:58 pm
@essaykaye What does two drug arrests in Fred Meyer parking lots have to do with Terri driving recklessly through a parking lot, even if it WERE Terri and it was a Fred Meyer lot?
******
It was never confirmed that TH’s car was seen driving erratically in a Fred Meyer lot – I believe that reference was in regards to a very early post that TH’s rather distinct car was seen on Suavie Island the day Kyron went missing. However, that was not the point. The point is that TH is clearly hiding from something and it must be pretty awful because it has prevented her from opening the door to the possibility of cross-examination and fighting for custody of her daughter for YEARS now.
We now know that there was a serious drug enterprise involving hiding drugs in Fred Meyer groceries hauled down the West Coast, which was operating during the time Kyron disappeared. We also know that on the morning Kyron disappeared TH visited two Fred Meyers. We also know that there were multiple law enforcement agencies involved in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance, including the DEA and ICE, as well as the existence of a parallel criminal investigation. There are also statements from Kaine that TH was essentially leading a double life. Lots of little pieces that may lead no where, but it made me think about the potential possibilities.
essay- what drug enterprise hiding drugs in Fred Meyers groceries?
B
RE: essay- what drug enterprise hiding drugs in Fred Meyers groceries?
B
******
Hells Angels. Would NOT want to mess with them. Here’s the link to a more descriptive article regarding one of the runners/confidential informant (note: the drug run was between Washington (above Oregon) and Alaska.
http://www.adn.com/2012/05/23/2477526/informant-in-militia-case-admits.html
Well I don’t think that is enough to conclude it is in play in this case, although I have seen some recent arrests in the parking lots. However, I do think the second sting reminds me very much of the failed sting in the Horman case- omg, wth is wrong with these people they don’t know how to road/block for covert strategy??
B
Blink,
this is the first I knew of an
Ambulance being requested in December of 09.
Any idea why?
(2nd entry listed)
Puzzler
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 7973
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland, OR #44 4/11/12 –
« Reply #277 on: March 11, 2013, 02:54:23 AM »
——————————————————————————–
More interesting reading.
http://vwoolfexploresthenorthwest.blogspot.com/2012_11_01_archive.html
I can say that TMH made the call and I can say that information was omitted from Kaine’s filing intentionally.
B
SNIP>
I am not sure the general public who has not studied this type of offender profile in practice can relate to how masterfully insidious they are. They boogeyman is real, and there are thousands of them around us everyday- very hard to catch.
B
*******************************************
Blink,
one thing that hangs me up with this, is that it appears/seems,
(not that it is the reality) that this type of offender has not
re-offended. Wouldn’t we have heard of more serial type of events
pertaining to this type??
How can this SZ just do this once and be done?
My first response is he isn’t. My second is if this was a SZ and not associated with the turmoils of the Horman clan et al, is that this was not his first offense.
This type of offender spends way more time planning and developing his fantasy continuum than the ultimate act itself.
I am not going to be able to provide a snapshot of a potential offender profile that takes years to study with any level of accuracy. It is the single most complex offender profile studied within BAU.
I am strongly pursuing this possibility because of the existance of SZ, and the lack of connection to TH or the lack of ability to even state a crime has occurred and connect it to TMH. That is protocol absent any other evidence if it cannot be ruled out, period.
B
When the civil case was abated until August 1, all parties attorneys were there. (And apparently a witness and or their attorney.) Here’s my question, did they all agree to the abatement? If any of the attorneys had objected to the abatement, either side, Wagner or Rosenthal, would we know of it? The public received no comment from either side did we?
Yet in the divorce abatement between Terri & Kaine, we have both party’s attorneys arguing heavily as to whether to abate or not and it is public record.
I guess what I’m trying to figure out is why protest in one and not the other, if in fact the goal of both stays is mainly to keep Terri from getting certain information. What could this signify?
Rackner claimed from the get go, her goal was to help LE as much as she could. This was not referring to a happy Horman dissolution agreement. It was in direct reference to assisting LE get Terri to talk. So what has changed in this arena. Why now, would they (Rackner/Engle/Kaine) not want to go forward with the divorce. Kaine’s attorneys knew from the get go that Terri would plead the 5th to certain questions. Terri’s attorneys knew from the get go, certain information they were requesting from LE would be “quashed”. So is it possible that Terri’s attorneys now have whatever that information is and it was found without subpoenaing the powers that be. They seem to have no fear of going forward now and they seemed to have no fear of going forward with their side of depositions in the civil case either.
I have to say I’m lost, but I feel this should be telling us something.
Trying to think of the worst thing TH would hide from would be an extended prison sentence where she NEVER gets to see her daughter again, or son. For what? Drugs, steroids, maybe? Maybe if she told, the drug people have threatened her and her family and shown her they meant business by taking (or having a SZ take)Kyron?
@ssaykaye says: March 29, 2013 at 8:39 am
RE: grasshopper says:March 28, 2013 at 4:58 pm
******
The point is that TH is clearly hiding from something and it must be pretty awful because it has prevented her from opening the door to the possibility of cross-examination and fighting for custody of her daughter for YEARS now
Those phone numbers shown on the second photo – are they cell phone numbers for either TMH or KH? Did anyone check?
Dec 17-19: Does anyone know if they took care of the call right there, or if a person was taken to a hospital? (I’ve forgotten the date James left the home)
June 4, 2010: Doesn’t say who made that call – school, or??
Second 6/26 call: Custodial issues. The “6076″ number appears on 3 of the photos. Rodolfo and TMH on the last one. Is this related to the previous “custodial issues” photo and would that mean that R is helping her in some way? If he was A Bad Guy, he sure wouldn’t be at their home, would he?
@ kimberly says: March 29, 2013 at 10:03 am
——————————————————————————–
More interesting reading.
http://vwoolfexploresthenorthwest.blogspot.com/2012_11_01_archive.html
oops, sorry. Blink replied. Calls were from TMH
Trying to think outside the box. Consider these possibilities:
I’ve never understood why Kaine was excluded from suspicion/investigation from the beginning. Normally Father is a suspect but this time LE focused solely on Terri, didn’t even bother, apparently, to question local sex offenders until a later time. Were they investigated to any length as to where they were that morning? We don’t know what Kaine was doing that morning either as Intel has never confirmed his presence in his Intel office, apparently, since nobody seems to be able to come up with that confirmation. Why was he excluded so quickly? Why has DA gone after getting Terri to talk with pressure from all directions?
What is it they are afraid of Kaine revealing in a deposition? Could it be what he was doing that morning, which might screw up their favorite scenario, or something that LE doesn’t want revealed for their own reasons. Maybe the Big Secret isn’t really the investigative details they told him but something he already know. I don’t get why they have insisted by every means possible that Terri is guilty and Kaine is innocent when they cannot possibly know either thing without knowing what the crime is and who actually did it.
What is Terri hiding and why won’t she tell it publicly? What if she knows something nasty about Kaine but doesn’t dare tell it because he has possession of Kiara and she does care about Kiara’s welfare. If Terri hadn’t been publicly implicated as guilty and Kaine implicated as innocent, Kiara would be in a foster home instead of with Kaine. What if someone else involved in this, whether or not Terri or Kaine guesses who that might be, that puts Kiara into the same danger as Kyron was? This possibility means that it was not a a stranger sex perv but someone known to the family, and therefore familiar to Kyron, who has something against the family. Has this ever even been considered?
DA apparently drew a box containing one person and devoted all their efforts to getting her to “tell” believing she has something more to say other than all the interviews she did with them between June 4 and June 30. She is as much under suspicion as ever, victim of a sting attempt, and subject to unending character assassination by Kaine, Desiree through the public media with media always emphasizing it.
@redrose. idk. McIntyre put away 2 innocents for murder, then had a hard time undoing it. Any criminal attorney would advise same. It’s that she’s complied for 3 years that tips against a personality disorder to me.
@TRuth. Rackner & Meisenheimer didn’t
know Terri would hire Houze. They also didnt know
Grand Jury would not indict in 2010 as gj’s freely do .
Imo The Great Stall started & has continued as consecutive
gjs have failed to indict. That is of course what basket their eggs
remain in between now & August. Kaine’s got $, house, & kid, so further stay during a Trial
& appeals will leave Kiara an adolescent before Terri may be able
to deal with the RO & divorce.
The MFH plot has me wondering why KH would say such a thing. The sting blewup in his an LE’s face. I really am not sure if I understand that whole part of the story. Or, did KH really want TMH to appear something she is not?
Well-he certainly had an interest in that perception, still does.
B
too bad for Kyron imo
the politics behind how Staton became Sheriff
rather than Mike Reese (who landed on his feet as PPB Chief)
http://www.wweek.com/portland/m/blog-3406-mobile.html#_Article
And no wonder Reese didnt bail Staton out on Kyron invrstigation.
imo Staton was isolated vis a vis Chief peers
like Reese, and Gresham , which impacted long term jurisdictional investigative collaboration
18. Cindy says:
March 29, 2013 at 4:35 pm
The MFH plot has me wondering why KH would say such a thing. The sting blewup in his an LE’s face. I really am not sure if I understand that whole part of the story. Or, did KH really want TMH to appear something she is not?
Well-he certainly had an interest in that perception, still does.
B
**********************************************
Whats that saying?
*For every finger you point at someone else,
there are 2 pointing back at you*?
In my experience, usually when someone has tryed to push blame away from themselves, it’s because they don’t want to be found out…
MOO
OK, let’s work or look at things from THIS angle:
What if KH is actually SZ?
Would this answer a LOT of the questions we are wondering about? Can this idea be disproven?
Not Kaine.
B
07-16-2010, after TH was accused of the MFH, KH keeping the wedding ring as a symbol of *our* family and more for *our* kids. Our kids, as in Kiara and Kyron and maybe even James?
KATU: Why are you still wearing your wedding ring?
Kaine: A good question that I was asked by one of the other local stations. I have not thought anything of it until asked. After thinking about it a little bit today I think I keep it on as a symbol of our family and more for our kids than anything else. It will come off at some point but right now the priority is getting Kyron home and taking care of Kiara.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98654424.html
Solidarity?
August 25, 2010
snips>
Terri Moulton Horman made her first public appearance this afternoon since shortly after her stepson Kyron Horman disappeared, accompanied by her lawyers to Multnomah County Circuit Court.
Flanked by her lawyers Stephen Houze and divorce attorney Peter Bunch, she wore a black suit, skirt and heels and what appeared to be a wedding ring on her left hand.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_moulton_horman_appears_i.html
Got another angel for you RedRose. Let’s say KH was involved in something illegal or embarrassing (with or without TH) and it created a vulnerable situation for Kyron.
correction: angle
RedRose says:
March 29, 2013 at 9:23 pm
OK, let’s work or look at things from THIS angle:
What if KH is actually SZ?
Would this answer a LOT of the questions we are wondering about? Can this idea be disproven?
Not Kaine.
B
1. Kaine has a solid alibis.
2. Kaine would be recognized as Kaine, and Kyron’s father.
3. There are witnesses to the SZ exchange and subsequent descriptions by persons that obviously recognize Kaine and therefore would not have been a SZ.
Honestly and with much respect, I am not understanding why this would even be in question.
B
~~~~~~
@ Blink do you mean Kaine can’t be SZ? Why?
As I read around (say looking at Gresham PD, or Det Bob Peterson), while it’s true they have few detectives, they are seasoned investigators who work constantly jointly with other Depts including on Task Forces. In May 2011, Peterson was wrapping up heroin dealer arrests with 2 PPB detectives. So I think Gresham, with the arguably better homicide detective just didn’t like either the direction or the leadership of the Task Force when they declined on 10/1/10. to participate & pulled their man Peterson
Since Gresham works closely with PPB Maybe it goes back to Sheriff Skipper crying in a meeting til he got the Commissioners to appoint Staton instead of Ron Leonard’s choice Reese (who later became head of PPB). url above. And when Reese said he’d give informal help to the Task Force in Oct, that retired LE B McCain was criticized for saying it’s about about time PPB got supportive. But maybe he was right & Reese had dragged his feet with Staton on this case earlier.
A Task Force dissolves with an arrest (1999 ) 5 Detectives remain, Peterson & PPB looking to connect the arrested person with cold cases from 12 years before, esp Peterson. Gap partially explained by some jail time. Point is, there was a 12 yr gap.
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/?fromgroups#!topic/alt.true-crime/JZlOPTxdceg
found this interesting work (post divorce) of a GAL’s interviews, which would not be relevant here, except the conclusion, where the GAL recommends the Court take legal custody of the children (to keep tabs on certain things by both parents such as conflicts about school enrollment & substance use) and put physical custody with a parent, incorporating a visitation schedule with the other, and a status hearing in 6 months.
It seems to me in a divorce as conflicted as Hormans, the best disposition for Kiara now would be for the Court to immediately take legal custody due to the conflict, (were I Bunch I’d go for that now), that Kaine have physical custody with a supervised visitation schedule (review that in 3 months, all subject to pendancy of criminal case), and a Status hearing in 6 months after psychologicals on both adults & Kiara. And an impartial experienced GAL’s recs.
I agree with that, and believe it or not, CFS is LESS likely to encroach on TMH civil rights- in terms of requirements about psych evaluations etc. I do agree they would establish pendancy after their investigation and consult with a GAL.
Personally, I think a GAL would also soften the “need” for Kantor to recuse in the event that Bunch et al is contemplating that move following the impending ( overdue) order spurs Bunch in that direction.
B
oops the url
http://www.twelvetribes-ex.com/?page_id=1168
In the land of “what ifs” today—-just some random thinking–
* What if LE has knowledge of something the H’s were involved in that had put the kids at risk— drug paybacks that jeopardized all three kids which may have prompted TMH to send James away, change his name.
*What if making TMH seem the suspect was a ruse to take focus off what LE was really pursuing, ergo the quash on all media outlets, the silencing of those around the school, making gestures that TMH was guilty supposedly.
* What if the hinky spins we keep noticing that all seem to spin into nothing: DAD, Javier Trejo’s death ?, LS pics + network of his supporters—-have some elements that might provide clues were there a reporter who “could” investigate??
*What if James, in his depo, revealed issues that gave further support & clues for LE.
* What if LE knows it wasn’t TMH, but keeping the media focus on her allows them to operate a search for a person who might be otherwise spooked?
*What if the $$$ for Houze was put up by a connection to LE to hedge their bets keeping TMH out of court, silent & safe, and use the divorce & MFH drama as a red herring??
*What if I’ve read too many mysteries series lately ?! LOL
skimming, barely, PPB Bulletins back til mid-’11, it’s amazing the adverse impact of drugs on LE budget, the no. of children going missing, and how many cold cases PPB solves.
Here is one interesting tidbit
30 yo Vancouver WA man sexually assaulted a 6 yo boy stranger in a park & fled in 2011. Had been living in a friend’s house in Portland.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Vancouver-child-sex-suspect-arrested-in-LA-135826163.html
light sentence; disappeared from probation reporting last Nov
http://www.cityofvancouver.us/sites/default/files/fileattachments/police_vpd/page/3007/so_berry.pdf
PS that 6 yo boy stranger sexual assault was 1st degree
Not Kaine.
B
1. Kaine has a solid alibis.
2. Kaine would be recognized as Kaine, and Kyron’s father.
3. There are witnesses to the SZ exchange and subsequent descriptions by persons that obviously recognize Kaine and therefore would not have been a SZ.
Honestly and with much respect, I am not understanding why this would even be in question.
B
>>>>>>>>>>
Oh dear. I have obviously misunderstood something. I thought Subject Zero referred to whoever disappeared Kyron but obviously it means something else entirely since nobody witnessed any exchange.
My suggestion of including Kaine in full investigation comes from fact that HE SAID he had an alibi for that morning but not officially confirmed. If he was involved in disappearance he would certainly send a friend of his also familiar to Kyron to the school to get the boy rather than go himself. But I don’t know what exchange you are referring to. What is that?
Kaine, Desiree, Tony, DAs office, media have done a superlative job in convincing most people that Terri is only one possible.
Kat says:
March 30, 2013 at 10:38 am
In the land of “what ifs” today—-just some random thinking–
* What if LE has knowledge of something the H’s were involved in that had put the kids at risk— drug paybacks that jeopardized all three kids which may have prompted TMH to send James away, change his name.
*What if making TMH seem the suspect was a ruse to take focus off what LE was really pursuing, ergo the quash on all media outlets, the silencing of those around the school, making gestures that TMH was guilty supposedly.
* What if the hinky spins we keep noticing that all seem to spin into nothing: DAD, Javier Trejo’s death ?, LS pics + network of his supporters—-have some elements that might provide clues were there a reporter who “could” investigate??
*What if James, in his depo, revealed issues that gave further support & clues for LE.
* What if LE knows it wasn’t TMH, but keeping the media focus on her allows them to operate a search for a person who might be otherwise spooked?
*What if the $$$ for Houze was put up by a connection to LE to hedge their bets keeping TMH out of court, silent & safe, and use the divorce & MFH drama as a red herring??
I think lots of people have wondered this, me included, but it would be pretty heartless of LE to destroy a family and individual lives as an investigative strategy. I sure hope they wouldn’t go this far.
As vw states in her blog, there was a question as to why there was no motion to intervene filed. My understanding is that this would be someone or entity that is not a party to a case, but would like to be. I think TH’s attorney is referencing the DA, due to there obvious control of the civil cases, by using the criminal investigation to thwart testimony. I just wonder if someone else, who has Kiara’s or Kyron’s best interests at heart, an uninvolved relative perhaps, could file a motion to intervene which could prompt the appointment of GAL’s.
http://vwoolfexploresthenorthwest.blogspot.com/2013/03/bunch-starts-punching.html
Apolly to any that have read much of this from me before, but I do think erose’s point means it bears repeating.
In my original piece after the civil suit was filed, I discussed the lack of standing by the DA in total, and questioned why the judge would have the “obligation” or the latitude, frankly, to inquire ex parte of their position on the matter to which they were not a party. Kantor addresses this as “no position” in his order denying abatement. He goes so far as to order that the respondent must file an appearance before anything else.
He was basically saying nice try, did not work, now you are in this. Y’all read that order we opined was really in some ways tantamount to re-writing the civil procedure and due process.
As I commented then- my takeaway from the hearing and the subsequent order was that through the court’s own finding, and then ultimately by it’s own order, it has ordered that the DA is not a party- already.
It is my opinion that had it filed a motion to intervene, it would have been compelled to support it’s change in status so to speak. The affadavits we saw are dated to reflect the motion in the tort, so we can make the assumption they have not changed, and we know that order and subsequent docs were sealed.
Underhill files motion to stay the day the info about the order ( without the order and before copies were in the file.. hello?) on medical records is filed with the court.
So………..
I am going with door No.1 that the order on medical records was the impetus for the DA’s actions then, and subsequently. I note that this occurs prior to Underhill taking an unchallenged position as DA.
If one has not read the motion on medical records I can tell you that in a civil tort like this, that order allowing usages as described therein by both sides, is super-rare. Moreover, there is no docketed hearing on it, no motions, response, reply, etc.
So, did this happen by agreement of the parties, and then once the DA sees the actual order, realize that it means information critical to the case in chief ( what case wth knows, no indictment and jury met at least 2x) can be used and ultimately public domain as a result?
So the question becomes, what medical information compromises, wait, let’s use the right word, INTERFERES with the investigation?
Could it be confirmation that Kyron had a Dr. appt scheduled for June 11th as stated by TMH which included chart notes of symptoms she relayed he was having that necessitated the appt?
Desiree’s medical records? (doubtful if she agreed to it, and i know she had to believe that would come out in a civil suit) AND her atty did not file the motion to stay.
So how does the DA get a copy of an order they are not a party to in the first place? From a party who has been served.
The ONLY way Houze/Bunch/Wagner do not object to the stay they originally proposed is if it is in favor of their defense of the suit, and/or non-injurious to it.
Now, in the dissolution case, we have an order DENYING the sealing of affadavits which btw, do NOT meet the burden of support for the motion to stay in the first place, and that was ruled on AT THE HEARING, according to the file stamp of Feb 4th.
You know what else they do not meet? The statutory obligations under a gj finding of a “no true bill.”
So I posit this possibility- Between the stay of the tort and the Feb 4th hearing in the disollution case, followed by Bunch’s motion about the DA not being invited to the party, did Underhill try and fail to motion the court to present “new evidence” to a new grand jury against a person with charges that already resulted in a “no true bill”- and was denied?
That argument is almost solely reserved for the DA that intentionally limits the counts it charges against an individual when it has concerns the investigation may yield new evidence, or that it has limited data going into to it. However, that scope is very narrow and may ONLY inlcude the new evidence, not what had to be shredded from the clerk’s file.
A DA cannot play “Best out of jury panel” until it gets a true bill. The law is clear and unambiguous- you get one shot with what you have, and if you intend to seek another one, it has to be new. I note the “new investigative avenues stemming from information we knew early, but not available but now is due to new resources.”
Translation: We want to call something new, and we want to be able to present it with old so that we can get a true bill.
Desiree: “The new DA is hoping to do something”.
Can only be one thing- another bite at an apple and in the meantime TMH is wanting to move ahead in the dissolution of the marriage and custody for the first time and Kaine is not. That speaks volumes to me.
I wonder if that is the hold up for the remaining issues for Kantor.
Anyone want to take bets this gets settled? I certainly hope not.
B
Vancouver wa has a nice website with SOs listed and missing & wanted fliers like Berry’s.
http://www.cityofvancouver.us/police/page/current-wanted-sex-offenders
If Mult County had same in 2010,
perhaps “the witness” could’ve scrolled
thru & id’d “similars” to be excluded.
Game changer.
snip>
Could it be confirmation that Kyron had a Dr. appt scheduled for June 11th as stated by TMH which included chart notes of symptoms she relayed he was having that necessitated the appt?
B
I will be digesting the response for as long as it takes to let it all sink in. Such great information and new concepts. Wanted to apologize to Blink and All that I caused a repeat of information, but I must have needed it.
Still curious if someone else can file a motion to intervene, and what it could possibly do to benefit Kyron and Kiara, if anything.
snip>
Child-custody hearings can be high-stakes affairs, with more than one future on the line, and emotions often running high. Yet, sometimes what’s needed is for outside intervention, from a grandparent, aunt, or cousin, someone with the best interests of the child at heart.
Read more: How to File a Motion to Intervene in a Child Custody Hearing in Texas | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_7661938_file-child-custody-hearing-texas.html#ixzz2P4AmJxVN
erose- you never need to apologize for a fresh look at info
B
re J Kantor’s self-initiated ex parte contact with DA at outset of Desiree’s Civil Suit: See JR-2 102
http://www.deontologie-judiciaire.umontreal.ca/fr/magistrature/documents/CODE_OREGON.pdf
See also
http://www.ajs.org/ethics/pdfs/TakingDisqualificationSeriously.pdf
of interest is p4 Footnote 32. OR is listed. Imo this is arguably “the case.”
My feeling is J Kantor may have realized the minute he issues a written opinion on the abatement motion, he arguably violates a Rule of Judicial Ethics, with personal repercussions, more serious than a mere recusal issue. and risks a Bar complaint & Judicial Council complaint.
1) the defendant in the 2 suits is identical, and faces severe adverse consequences in both
2) the abatement requests in each emanate from the DA, in both cases causing different plaintiffs to reverse their Stay positions
3) the evidentiary facts to be litigated are substantially identical and based on the same transaction
(due to that sticky old RO)
4) the trier of fact already ruled on in a prior case on virtually the same motion & substantially evidentiary-related (alleged) violation
are you saying any medical records, those of nonparties
such as Kyron, or Kaine, can come in if subpoenaed if the tort
action was not stayed?
Could Desiree’s or Terri’s (incl ERs) document battered wife evidence?
Things Kaine knows Terri does not could include such things as a
preKiara vasectomy, or treatment for a variety of ailments (note, general speculation only
as to the reason for that comment from LE). Kyron’s could include his school reports & concerns
& instances of his wandering from the classroom. Could include screening for abuse due to
worries about an extended family member.
I am saying as I read that order, they can be used, and then that producer can use same for other legal matters in conformity with the order, absolutely. Broad-est I have ever seen.
B
@erose. I needed it too. You’d need to read the Oregon Rules of Civil Procedure I linked here before. And have an OR attorney opine on the case law re intervention in OR. But my memory is the person needs a substantial interest in the litigation matter. imo The only way that would happen in a divorce is if someone else had a substantial interest in custody that could override both parents (ie grandparents as primary caregivers since birth without interruption). Or Say the child had been primarily living for some time with an informally separated stepparent. Mere relationship is not enough imo. Or if one was was a bigamist with a second spouse who had a significant financial interest in asset dispo. Not realistic, Just pointing out the degree of interest needed.
re:erose says:
March 30, 2013 at 5:39 pm
“Still curious if someone else can file a motion to intervene, and what it could possibly do to benefit Kyron and Kiara, if anything.”
dont mean to be the resident cynic, but the wenatchee sex abuse cases had gal’s appointed, but they were apointed by the da and judges involved in the case. it turned out that the defense attornys and the police and the judges and the da were all friends from the country club.when some cps or dshs personell brought up possible errors in the case, they were sent up the river! (lots went to canada) i dont think it began as a huge cover up conspiracy, i think that when the top players found out they had made grievous errors because of wrongdoing by one cop, the rest of the people never admitted they made any mistakes and to cover their own errors they just kept the case going with stalling and “evedince” that could support the origonal theory of abuse.I could be way wrong but as i look at some of the early reporting by people critical of the kyron disapearance investigation it seems that the case has gone on delay and hope to keep the origonal theory intact more than investigating what really might have happened.I really pray that someone outside the investigation will look into the case. in the wenatchee cases the people accused actually got arrested and then they were able to appeal to higher outside the area courts. in the kyron case there is no charges, and so no ability for tmh to appeal or get access to charges or court documents incriminating her, because mcso has never made any charges. if i remember right mcso has never accused tmh of anything, only intimating suspected crime through kaine and desiree, so tmh and her lawyers really cant do much except file a suit of “they ruined her life…” or something like that. if they had charged her then she would have recourse in the courts and at least access to whatever the mcso is “not accusing her of”.
bruce mccain early comments
http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-25716-ex_sheriffs_office_official_blasts_his_former_empl.html
Home – Blogs – Staff Blogs
December 7th, 2010 By NIGEL JAQUISS | News | Posted In: CLEAN UP Ex-Sheriff’s Office Official Blasts His Former Employer On Kyron Horman Investigation
“So why did the Sheriff’s Office respond to Kyron’s disappearance by launching a massive Search & Rescue (SAR) effort and not considering this a crime? The answer lies in the nature and history of the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office.
McCain then delivers perhaps his strongest point:
The Portland Police Bureau (PPB) is Oregon’s largest police department with 95 budgeted detectives. At PPB, the position of detective is actually a promotional position from police officer as opposed to a rotational assignment as in many smaller agencies. Portland’s 95 detectives are more than MCSO’s total number of law enforcement sergeants and deputy sheriffs combined and dwarf’s MCSO’s detective unit of six deputies. Yet Portland’s vastly more experienced detectives have been conspicuously absent from the Kyron Horman case as MCSO tried to solve this case mostly without Portland’s help, despite the recent announcement of the cost-shifting Task Force.”
i dont know much about this mccain, or if i like his comments during the investigation, but i have to wonder about what the mcso was doing during the early investigation.
What continues to baffle us, and we have discussed this early, is that the disaster or crisis plan for SS calls for this to be PPB jurisdiction. I do not understand to this day why MCSO maintains this case.
B
bruce mccaine posted another post on victoria tafts blog when she worked for kpam and i wasnt really looking at what he said but he did note the overtime complaint which gave me a list of the detectives involved in the early investigation
http://victoriataftkpam.blogspot.com/2010/12/mccain-kyron-kops-confident-yet.html
The following is a list of employee overtime costs, which includes earnings, salary-related fringe and insurance, for June 4 through June 30, 2010
Sgt. Diana Olsen – $17, 390.00
Deputy Lee Gosson – $16,966.00
Deputy Kevin Jones – $15,784.50
Deputy Joshua Zwick – $14,949.50
Deputy Bobby O’Donnell – $14,035.00
Deputy Jonathan Zwick – $13,144.50
Deputy Sean Mallory – $11,263.00
Deputy Daniel Rendon – $10,930.00
Deputy Lars Snitker – $10, 190.00
Deputy Matthew Ferguson – $10,155.50
Deputy Timothy Wonacott – $10,013.00
But the grand prize for overtime in June 2010 goes to Sgt. Jan Kubic, who was paid $18,164.50 in total overtime compensation for the month, on top of a total annual compensation package of $146,842. These staggering numbers for June alone only list those earning more than $10,000 in overtime for the month of June 2010. The total Kyron Horman overtime costs to taxpayers for June alone was $335,908.98. And these figures are only for the Sheriff’s Office – they do not include the district attorney or other federal, state and local agencies who contributed resources to the search for Kyron.
on december 20, 2010 Bernie Giusto spoke on the Kyron Case
http://victoriataftkpam.blogspot.com/2010/12/bernie-giusto-on-kyron-case-this-is.html
Monday, December 20, 2010Bernie Giusto on Kyron Case: This Is a Crime. Have the Courage to Say So.
… And starting over means going back to the place where it all started…let’s just say the Sheriff and his investigators literally need to go back to school…
“Mistakes and Ego:”
Focusing on one person as a “suspect” (without saying so) has been a mistake. The initial stage of a criminal investigation is to eliminate potential suspects. When you focus an investigation on only one person without facts, bad things often happen. The best thing that might happen is that the evidence proves you correct or–worst case–and you shape the evidence to prove yourself correct and the innocent take the wrap. Don’t ever believe that does not happen, it does. More troubling, it is often the result of poorly directed investigations and over blown investigative and prosecution egos usually set in motion from the starting gun of the investigation.
“Back to Where it Started:”
So it’s time to go back to the trail head. Return to Skyline School…
sam- that piece was enlightening to the culture we are dealing with, and apparently ignored by it’s intended audience.
I have to go back to- aren’t Ky’s parents seeing these types of critiques from the blue line?
B
just because i dont know oregon news or who’s who, i am posting a little background on a few sheriffs.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/24311079.html
story jul 10, 2008
bernie giusto was m.c. sheriff until it was found out that he had an affair and it was found that he violated state ethics laws by driving his government-owned sport utility vehicle to Seattle with his girlfriend in September 2006.
He was accused of lying to his superiors as a state trooper by denying that he had an affair with the wife of Neil Goldschmidt when he was on the governor’s security detail two decades ago.
Schrunk had long criticized Giusto’s management…He said he met with Giusto and two other officials: Assistant Portland Police Chief Brian Martinek, who is a member of the state committee who had most vocally pushed to strip Giusto of his badge, and former Multnomah County Sheriff Bob Skipper, who succeeds Giusto next week.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/58226737.html
Published: Sep 9, 2009
Skipper announced Tuesday in a press release that he will retire as Multnomah County Sheriff on Nov. 5 after he failed to pass a state-required certification exam. He designated Lt. Dan Staton
to take his place and introduced him during the news conference.
Skipper came out of retirement last year to take the sheriff’s job after Sheriff Bernie Giusto resigned amid ethics and management questions.
But Sheriff Skipper failed state law enforcement exams – twice. With no time left for basic training and no extension or temporary certification granted, he was forced to step aside.
As for Lt. Staton, Multnomah County Commissioners will vote on his appointment Thursday. Ultimately, he’ll have to go through the election process to keep the job.”
Rose says:
March 30, 2013 at 6:26 pm
are you saying any medical records, those of nonparties
such as Kyron, or Kaine, can come in if subpoenaed if the tort
action was not stayed?
Could Desiree’s or Terri’s (incl ERs) document battered wife evidence?
if i remember right, the scared monkeys did a really good look into the 911 calls, including the one from dec before the “murder for hire plot” but i have no idea how to find any thing on scared monkeys forum, maybe someone here remembers those?
Sam- that piece was enlightening to the culture we are dealing with, and apparently ignored by it’s intended audience.
I have to go back to- aren’t Ky’s parents seeing these types of critiques from the blue line?
B
No Blink. They are NOT. Skyline, MCSO, DA. NO suspician. Look at it this way. DY…not that Up on LE and legal maneuevers. Go with the flow; get the moneys for suits, etc.
TY…not much on resisting local LE… or his wife.
Kaine…Damn…get the kid, no alimony and maybe even child support coming my way? Got the car, Kyron, and the babes. WTF….I won!
Kyron….a child. Who took him? Why? Why was he allowed to be taken withou ANY sort of persistant search for a MISSING and ABDUCTED and MURDERED child?
LE LOST IT. By a WEEK.
Didn’t persue a missing, abducted, murdered child. And MISSED all the clues to such if they exisisted.
The opportunities missed in the beginning of this case are never to return. I know I sound like a broken record, but I cannot recall or cite a case where 9 different agencies, including several Federal resources were simultaneously working a case that resulted in zero physical evidence, non-admission a crime was committed, multiple attempts to indict failure and my list could go on.
The overtime assessments are not my area of analytical expertise, but I find that incredible. Increasing one’s income per month between $10 and $18K a month seems like a welcome opportunity for many and some seriously poor planning.
Lastly, fodder for some serious media outlet to request the reporting docs that accompany those amounts- they would have the right to redact some information that was case sensitive, but would be most interesting.
Are those hours search and rescue based? What determined those search areas and resources? Whim?
B
Thank you Blink for those words, they remind me of my Dad saying there are no stupid questions. Rose, I am glad you needed it, too, though you probably have a deeper take away since you are more verse in the legal aspects of family law. I would not expect the motion to interfere to be successful, just hoped it might be a way to turn the focus on to the kids. It’s unfortunate that only a primary caregiver relationship qualifies, though I imagine any interested parties already have a bias. I did read a bloggers rhetorical question the other day that has resonated with me. How many men have gained custody of their children from two different women? Sam, I’m with you about some GALs, and am too a WA resident, and our GALs have little to no credentials or required experience, unfortunately. Blink has been saying forever, to get the investigation back to the school. At this point, all I can say is it’s put up or shut up come August.
The school that nobody thought to preserve the records of, yet installed a state of the art security system to include facial recognition software. The one were agents were perched at the perimeter of for the remainder of the school year.
Did they think Ky was going to surface from the brush? Doubtful, so what was the strategy?
B
@ROSE and BLINK
Regarding: Rose says:
March 29, 2013 at 12:49 am
what depo content of Kaine’s would make Rees represen tit must remain confidential from Terri now of a magnitudeto stay a 3 year old civil suit, but would be OKto disclose in 6 months subsequent to “something specific”coming to fruition?
I suppose the bigger issue is that they believe they will be in a position to prosecute which would stay the civil proceeding (most likely, I want to say Kantor says that in his original denial to abate) until completion. At that point it would be meritorious or not.
From where I sit in can only be construed as inculpatory to Terri. B
Depo of Kaine?
More than than, I think. Depoes of RS and BO would be in order too. Would it be a divorce TRIAL in which you have right to confron accusers?
Or would it be a settlement hearing? Of some sort in which you submit motions, etc, but leave it up to the court to decide?
I am not sure I understand your question, vw.
B