Jodi Arias Trial Rebuttal Winds Down: Fog, Fugue, Freed or Fraud- Are The Sex Pics From Months Before Travis Alexander’s Murder? Do They Show Arias Broke In?
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...” Why does most human violence occur between those who are emotionally involved, or more technically, within an attachment paradigm?
Dr. J. Reid Meloy from Violent Attachments
Phoenix, AZ- Arguably the best psychological witness presented at trial, Dr. Janeen DeMarte, clinical psychologist, took the stand last week as the first witness in the State of Arizona’s rebuttal case in the trial of Jodi Arias for the murder of Travis Alexander.
In stark contrast to her previous behavior in court, Jodi Arias refused to look at Dr. DeMarte on the stand, and feverishly took notes or whispered to her attorney Jennifer Wilmott through the State’s direct examination of their witness.
With one exception. When Dr. DeMarte was asked by Prosecutor Juan Martinez if Jodi Arias was a victim of domestic violence resulting in battered woman syndrome, Ms. Arias looked up for DeMarte’s answer. “No.”
After a battery of psychological tests were completed and scored, and approximately 12 hours of clinical interview with defendant Arias- Dr. DeMarte diagnosed Jodi Arias with Borderline Personality Disorder. Dr. DeMarte had the added luxury of having her home vandalized and her laptop stolen following the start of the trial. That information was not shared in open court.
Significant from a psychological evaluation perspective, Jodi Arias’ expert witnesses Alyce LaViolette and Dr. Samuels felt Arias was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) as a result of the killing of Travis Alexander on June 4, 2008 at his home in Mesa, Arizona. Only Samuels was licensed to test Arias similarly to DeMarte, and it appears the results were very different. Samuels testified that he never re-tested Arias after he learned her accounts of June 4 were fabrications and that was an error on his part in his finding Arias suffered from PTSD.
Cross examination of Dr. DeMarte induced a migraine headache suffered by Arias (her 3rd since trial) although she is taking Imitrex for the condition. Earlier in the day, Wilmott began her cross by repeatedly stating that DeMarte was practicing therapy without a license prior to her licensing exam, to which DeMarte responded “That is not correct, it is permitted under the supervision of a licensed psychologist, which I was.”
Wilmott went on to question DeMarte’s credentials specifically related to expertise in domestic violence and her current knowledge of the practices of Dr. Lenore Walker- largely considered the pioneer of domestic violence research and testing. Walker’s work is novel within the psychological community in the area of the battered woman syndrome diagnosis.
Wilmott unsuccessfully tried to trip up DeMarte by suggesting that Walker no longer uses her own 6 point scale to include the possibility of battered woman syndrome to which DeMarte replied, “I would say that you are being inaccurate.”
DeMarte completed her testimony with very limited juror questions, although it was clear that a juror or two was not sold that Arias’ only disorder is BPD.
While DeMarte represented the State well in my opinion; Jodi Arias remains the round peg in the jello rhomboid to me. Too many unanswered behavioral observations from a criminal profiling perspective to fit into the BPD mold.
Prior to the start of the State’s rebuttal case, defense counsel Kirk Nurmi recalled a witness for the defense who never made it into the witness list for trial, Mr. Bryan Neumiester.
In previous hearings where Neumiester appeared as an expert for the defense in the authentication of the May 10, 2008 phone sex recording made by Arias, the State agreed to a stipulation that it was indeed Travis Alexander’s voice on the tape, and that it was made on May 10.
In earlier testimony Juan Martinez elicited from Jodi Arias, Martinez accused her of recording the tape without Alexander’s permission or knowledge. Arias was forced to admit that at no time is the fact that the conversation is being recorded heard mentioned by either party during the recording. More on that recording in a bit.
Neumiester was able to magnify the very haunting last image of a live Travis Alexander’s face in the shower, specifically his iris, and gain agreement via stipulation that the reflective image contained therein is that of Jodi Arias. She was not holding a gun or knife and the image was time-stamped correctly.
This was the second time Juan Martinez agreed to a stipulation from the same expert witness regarding the recorded media, both digital and audio in this case- outside the presence of the jury.
Mr. Neumiester is an expert witness for colleagues in Mr. Martinez’s own office as well as the Mesa Police Department. Might suggest offsite meetings going forward.
The final witness listed for the State’s rebuttal case is an investigator for the Mesa County Police who specializes in computer forensics, Detective Robert Brown. Detective Brown describes himself as a Computer Forensics Detective:
As a Digital Forensics expert, I possess attention to detail in my forensic capability, as well as the ability to explain complex technical concepts in a non-technical manner.
In the course of my regular duties, I also perform the following:
-Support ongoing internal investigations and litigation matters
-Utilize a variety of forensic tools (Encase, FTK, Helix, Cellebrite, Wireshark, etc.)
-Perform storage forensics (for example, hard drives, phones, USB storage)
-Perform network captures for traffic analysis
-File-system analysis and file carving (for example, to extract email, documents, and other trace evidence)
-Identifying , collection and analyzing electronic information, relevant to a case, incident or event of interest
-Establish timelines and patterns of activity of individuals and electronic devices and software
-Following forensically sound practices, including preserving chain of custody
-Efficiently and effectively report progress, risks and issues associated with assignments to varying levels of management
Following sound practices including preservation of chain of custody is looking like a welcome addition to this case.
In testimony from Detective Michael Melendez where the images allegedly taken by Travis’s camera were recovered from the deleted or unallocated portions of the memory stick via Encase software we learned that the infamous afternoon of highly graphic sex images of both Travis and Jodi that were dated and time-stamped on June 4th took place that afternoon prior to Travis’s murder.
Thus, making Jodi Arias an invited guest.
As an invited guest spending the day indelicato delicto, it certainly makes it difficult to prove the felony murder charge she is facing- and does not help the pre-meditation or murder in the first degree allegation because the basic motive is that Jodi went there to murder Travis because he was not going to take her to Cancun. While certainly a possibility, I would offer that just about every psychological professional who sat across from Arias missed the fact that she literally saw her old boyfriends more than once along her trek that ended up with her last breakup. Weird, yes.
Otherwise known as a raging sign of dependent personality disorder.
…” You are the worst thing that has ever happened to me…”
-Travis Alexander
According to the text messages back and forth between Jodi and Travis the weeks prior to his murder, it was patently clear that Alexander wanted Arias out of his life for good.
Has what the state since learned after having Jodi on the stand under oath and repeated in cross examination opened the door to further investigation of the electronic media in this case in preparation for rebuttal? Looks that way.
Keeping in mind that the phone sex recording was May 10th. About a week later, Arias testified, she thought the phone was stolen. She alleges it was found by her Aunt in 2010 in her grandfather’s car. This would be the same aunt that she pointed out in court, and who has not been seen in court in weeks although she had attended daily.
Arias writes in her journal entry May 22, 2008 that there are several explicit photos on her stolen phone, and 2 recorded sex tapes. In 2010, Arias though her attorneys, deliver this phone into evidence with no chain of custody information in a then 2 year old case. Miraculously, this occurs just as Arias is moving from the “maybe not the ninja’s” defense. From the defense perspective it has some statements from Alexander on it that they feel support’s their defense. From the State’s perspective it proves that Arias was certainly very open to the sexual practices of the couple and never felt abused, nor was she put off by the comments by Alexander.
A win-win for both sides so why not agree to its stipulation, right?
Is this why Juan Martinez was hammering home the journal entry written about the “fruitful imaginations” the two explored, causing Arias to miss Lonnie’s christening?
The infamous sugar fest that takes place just before Arias allegedly walks in on Alexander in masturbatory behavior where some image of a boy lands at her feet on January 21st? I note that one of the pictures allegedly from the June 4th date seems to show Alexander engaged in some self-satisfaction that ended with a surprise photo taken from the point of view of the chair next to him.
You’ll see where I am going with this momentarily.
Zulu Time Sex Chat
I have listened to the recording more times than one should have to, and I note that within that conversation ( which is clearly edited, you can hear the fast forwards or dead time during the recording) the sexual tryst they discuss sounds very much like what was captured on the images as presented previously as occurring on June 4th. If you have no concern about losing your lunch, it can be found here. Because of the nature of the material I am not quoting directly.
Graphic Warning, Sexually Explicit Material
Points in Conversation that Match Images
- Jodi discusses her fresh Brazilian and her being unsure if Travis would like that. She mentions Travis wakes her up after she fell asleep in the chair by preforming a sex act on her. There is no question that Jodi is freshly waxed in those images.
- Travis discusses the point of view shots of her “anatomy”.
- Jodi mentions that her hair was IN BRAIDS. In the police interview Flores refers to them as pigtails and Jodi responds “Are you sure it’s me, pigtails? They are not pigtails, they are braids and it is through this verbiage I believe we see Jodi restate that the pics are from another time. She is adamant on that until unfortunately Flores gives it up he has those 2 pics taken from the scene accidently.
- Jodi asks Travis to check out her new profile pic, he does, tells her how photogenic she is, and at no time says… O, you changed your hair color to brown. We know she took pics from her own camera May 10 and she was a brunette. Arias testified her hair was brown prior to leaving Mesa.
- Travis mentions the introduction of KY into the relationship. It is laying on the bed in the images, however, he says during the call when he is masturbating he is using Vaseline.
- Jodi mentions next time they have a photo session that she would like to have makeup on. She has no makeup on in these images.
- In a very close-up point of view shot, it appears Ms. Arias is using her vaginal canal as a tootsie pop holder. The tootsie pop incident occurs only once and prior to June 4th as it is discussed during the tootsietape.
I am aware that Det. Melendez says that the timestamps are from the image files, however, he never offers any explanation as to why some have it and many do not. Nor is he asked how if Neumiester was able to pull EXIF data identifying the shower image as taken from Travis’s camera from a similarly deleted image, why he was not able to. Likely why Mr. Neumiester was kept off the stand via the State’s agreement to the stipulation that has the legal community scratching its collective head.
My current thought bubble: Why would the prosecution take the murder weapons out of the hands of the suspect and in one fell swoop support her account of events as opposed to allowing Judge Stephens to rule on the Daubert hearing?
My current thought bubble response: Because it opens the door that has a little bottle labeled drink me on the other side.
Exhibit #215 Is Fat
No, not a person. The blue SD card labeled exhibit #215, confirmed by the State by its two witnesses Heather Connor and Det Melendez to be the card where all deleted images were extracted.
There’s just one problem with that. Well, maybe two. Connor stated it was located in the bottom of the washer along with the camera battery cover, which were separate from the camera itself. In fact, one can see the battery pack in the camera from the image taken into the washer.
Melendez stated he found the card or memory stick inside the camera when he opened its cover door.
Duo v SD blue
How did it get there if he was the only one who handled it, and how does he account for the fact that it is definitely not compatible with Travis’s camera a Sony (insert model).
Travis’s camera used a proprietary Sony duopro memory stick which is thinner and rectangular, and included notches for locking the data contained on it. The blue SD card cannot and does not fit inside the camera.
SO….
How does one account for the fact that there is only one card located in exhibit #215 and it is indeed now a Sony duopro, and it is NOT the same card pictured in the envelope presented by Thomas through prosecutor Juan Martinez.
As much as it pains me to say this- Jodi told them that herself and Det. Flores confirmed it during their interview on July 15, 2008.
Excerpted in pertinent part, my actual case bench notes from 4/2/13:
1:57 starts discussion on card- notes for review, upload and feedback
JA: To me pictures are very compelling but I know they can be modified, altered and I don’t know but I think date and time stamps can be tampered with.
Flores: we did not modify anything. Say like a computer, we take a mirror copy of it, and we don’t even touch it…. That’s exactly what we do with the photos. We don’t work with the originals and we make an exact duplicate copy and we work with the copy..And our guys are so good, that every case that I know of, has never been lost in court
(Note b: That sounds dangerously like no jury will ever convict me, ugh.)
8:34
Arias begins to ask Flores if they have her camera from storage.
Flores responds do you remember taking these pictures?
Arias: we took many pictures, vaguely
9:00
Arias in response to Flores saying they both deleted everything off both or all devices (sic) says prior to Travis getting his camera, all those pictures were on her camera.
Flores: All these same pictures?
Arias: I dunno, we took a bunch the week before I left
Arias: What I am asking is it possible that my memory card is in his camera? They are interchangeable.
(Note b: This may be why she needed the software and cord found in office. Ref my observations that the cord image appears to have red staining, but was not marked for testing. Imo, this is why she states they had sex on the desk. She knew her DNA from the cut would be there.)
Flores: How do you know they are interchangeable?
Arias: That’s why I am asking.
Flores: Just a regular ole standard SD card.
Arias: That’s why I am asking, cause I’ve got one that is like, this big (Note b: draws on his pad lefty)
For my professional camera it is like long and think like a cracker. My other one is more like this big (note b: Draws but in context shown to be larger than the first. She is indicating they are 2 different sizes.)
Flores: they are not interchangeable…His camera was here and your camera was there, why would those be on his camera?
Arias: My camera in storage that is broken but it is still there, I had several memory cards for it that I don’t have any more, and I guess what I am saying.
Flores: so are you saying all these pictures are on that camera?
Arias; no, it’s so farfetched but I guess it’s possible my card fits
Flores: So you’re saying maybe somebody took your memory card?
Arias: No, what I am saying is that if I left my memory cards at his house he could have used it in his camera. (Note b: This is prior to the trip to the big house. Please note how incredibly detrimental it is to call your suspect on the phone and tell them about all your subpoenas and warrants coming her way six weeks earlier- tends to lead to destruction of evidence, witness tampering, I could go on.)
Of particular interest, was Flores’s commentary that the experts on the hard drive and imaging testing (Melendez et al) have never lost a case where they presented evidence?
While that may be true, there was more than a few things he got wrong in that exchange.
- While on the stand initially calling the duopro card a SIM card, Melendez stated that SIM cards are smaller and primarily used in phones. This is an incorrect explanation. The storage format Martinez was referring to as a SIM is actually Micro SD. However, no micro SD cards have been admitted into evidence at trial.
- In Flores’s interview, he expressly stated that the analysts DID NOT work with the original card or cards in the case that they only make a copy, a mirror copy and work with that. Again, incorrect as we heard Melendez testify that he could not read the card removed until he placed the card directly into his “forensic machine”. No copy was ever made and the images recovered consisted then of deleted and non-deleted items from the card Melendez testified he removed from Travis’s camera himself.
Is it possible Jodi is correct, and Travis had an SD card from her camera and that was the camera used to shoot the tawdry tryst? Whereby he subsequently loaded the amateur effort himself onto the duopro card via the USB attachment and software loaded on his computer? If indeed Melendez was able to recover the deleted images from the duopro card, this would account for why the romp images were on his camera card although Travis and Jodi had not seen each other since its purchase.
Travis also had a Sony video camera that would also use a Sony duopro card enabling him to use the one he had in both. Travis’s video camera has not been referenced as evidence or an exhibit in the trial to date.
Potentially solving the dilemma of how the images get on Travis’s camera- if in fact they predate June 4th unfortunately does not address either how two of the state’s own witnesses testify differently about the same pieces of evidence that cannot possibly be the same storage device or the problems in chain of custody of same.
If Jodi was not the invited guest she claims she was as evidenced previously by the pictures thought to be taken on June 4th, what was she doing there exactly?
Did Travis Alexander even know she was in the house before he spots her holding something other than a gun or knife as he looks out of the shower for the last time?
Travis’s roommate Enrique’s statement to Flores seems to support the theory that at the very least, he was not aware Jodi was in the home when he spoke to Travis that morning and Travis shared he had not gotten any sleep. During her interview Jodi knew nothing of the new second roommate (until Flores outright told her about him and that he was at work) but she definitely would have if she came in through the garage because his car was parked in it.
Does this lend credence to the screen outside being removed by Jodi to the office window laying on the ground for entrance purposes?
Court resumes tomorrow after a closed hearing today. With the general public consensus after a nearly 4 month trial that most are no closer to the truth about what actually happened at casa de alexander on June 4, 2008 other than the outcome, this jury has its work cut out for them.
Please join me this evening discussing this case on THE DANA PRETZER SHOW- LIVE at 9PM EST.
Contributing Editor: Jacqueline Beaufort
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erose says:
May 3, 2013 at 5:38 pm
Was JA abused?
No.
Did she fear for her life?
No.
Is there evidence that she premeditated TA’s murder?
Yes, circumstantial.
Is there evidence that refutes premeditation?
Yes, the crime scene.
Do I hope I my interpretation of what the jury will decide is wrong?
Yes.
Tis that very cluster, yes.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Erose, great to see you posting on this thread! I agree with every point you made except one: the crime scene evidence refutes premeditation. Imo, this crime scene can just as easily suggest a premeditated murder that went awry. I think JA waited until he was in the shower because she thought he would die there and the cleanup would be minimal. What she never counted on was just how hard he would fight to survive.
I have two problems with testimony of Dr. Horn. He didn’t catch the mistake on the autopsy report until he reread it on the stand. The other is the fact that he stated that Travis was already dead and the heart was not beating when the shot was fired. His reasoning was that there was no blood evidence to indicate otherwise.
Of course that was true at the time of autopsy. Jodi drug Travis back to the shower and turned it on to destroy evidence. This removed all indications of how much bleeding took place from the shot.
The other thing is that he claimed that little bullet traveling at 500 fps that barely penetrated the skull would have a shock wave powerful enough to knock Travis down. Tests have shown that the falling down thing is a result of all the movies people watch have conditioned them to fall. They were not knocked down unless the bullet went through the lower brain where all the motor control exists. All of this is in regards to a shot from a pistol or automatic handgun. A rife is a totally different because of the bullet traveling at more than the speed of sound.
Which way did Jodi go to Utah? There is the path towards Hoover dam and Nevada. A long stretch is through the Jousha Tree forest with little or no habitation. Plenty of places to pull off the highway and dispose of gun, knife, clothing and anything else she wanted to get rid of. The problem I find is that she gassed up in Pasadena, Ca. and supposedly did not buy gas again until Salt lake City.
The tank on the little car held 12.4 gallons and she had 15 gallons available in the three gas cans. If she got 30 miles to the gallon, that is a total of 822 miles before fill-up became necessary. It is 210 miles to Blyth,Ca. along I-10 and 151 miles to Mesa from Blyth for a total of 359 miles. Jodi would have consumed all the gas in the car tank except one-half gallon by the time she reached Mesa. If she filled the tank from the gas cans at Mesa, she could have traveled another 360 miles and still had 2.6 gal. in one of the cans.
The shortest way to Salt Lake City is North on I-17 to Flagstaff and then North on Highway 89 taking the 89A fork and crossing the river at Marble Canyon and then West and North on 89A to the Utah line and then to Salt Lake city. That route is 676 miles and there is not enough gas to make it there unless she stopped at Indio or Blyth Ca. and refilled the car tank and paid cash.
Highway 89 &89A traverse a long way through the Navajo Indian reservation and then after crossing the river, it is more miles of little or no human activity. There is a place on highway 89A West of Marble Canyon where a major dry creek bed is easily accessed from the highway. That could be the area where she disposed of the evidence taken with her. Any amount of rain would have washed it downstream about a mile to the river.
As JM pointed out during his close, when one lies there gets to be a big burden of keeping everything straight and no matter how hard one tries, most of the time it does not work. People who lie, cannot fool those with experience.
We needed the futureman levity to relieve the stress.
Futureman says:
May 3, 2013 at 11:30 am
Excellent…. >D >D >D
@twitch…. un-abashedly un-pleasant and un-derhandedly un-forgivable. No need for spell check lol You get the drift.
Thanks again futureman…
Praying for that Jury to see that rainbow, and the world’s loss of a wonderful man with so much potential.
Futureman’s banana joke? Aw c’mon, FM! You can do betta than that!
Futureman’s banana joke? Aw c’mon, FM! You can do betta than that!
oops! the blog let me post the same comment twice! (Funny?)
I only got my finger caught–didn’t know I was posting x2.
Blink..how do you feel now that it has been turned over to the jury?
Like I want to hurl. With manslaughter on the table, I do believe this jury has the best chance of rendering a verdict they ever had.
B
So…who’s glad we are finally to this phase??
I am definitely, my hippocampus couldn’t take many more “aaaannnndddd….let’s go back”.
I’m with sweet Ragdoll, praying for justice.
Futureman, lolol @ Amish man eating a banana!!
I like you!!
@GraceintheHills, I am truly touched because I have so much respect for you and your opinions. Swing by Kyron’s thread once in awhile, though you probably do and just don’t post. Almost 3 years, and still more questions than answers. ;(
Anyway, you said, “the crime scene can just as easily suggest a premeditated murder that went awry.” I agree, I agree, I agree, but the fact that it can suggest *anything else* is problematic, IMO. DP needs cut and dry, no other way to look at it. I think this case falls short.
I am going to take this opportunity to voice an opinion on the dog and pony show on CNN tonight. They were building a house of cards with pictures of gas cans, receipts, JA, it was despicable. I notice the people in AZ are not quite so flippant when discussing this crime. They are more centered into the reality and gravity of what is at stake for the families of TA and JA, IMO.
I think that is what will happen with this jury. They are human, and this is a heavy burden and at least one of them is going to look for a reason or explanation to find below premeditation, if it is there and IMO they will find it.
GraceintheHills says:
May 3, 2013 at 10:35 pm
Hi Erose, great to see you posting on this thread! I agree with every point you made except one: the crime scene evidence refutes premeditation. Imo, this crime scene can just as easily suggest a premeditated murder that went awry. I think JA waited until he was in the shower because she thought he would die there and the cleanup would be minimal. What she never counted on was just how hard he would fight to survive.
@Rose
I didn’t think Nurmi liked Jodi
But never figured he would say so
No one seems to like Jodi except Jodi
Anyway here we are waiting
Thank you for a very interesting site.
Regarding Mr Alexander’s video camera, somewhere in either her police interviews or testimony, I noticed Ms Arias said something to the effect that ‘We never made any sex movies (because I didn’t want to) – until that day’. Whoever she was talking to (prosecutor or police officer) didn’t pick up on this, but the way she sort of spat ‘until that day’ out made me prick up my ears.
On a different note, I am very curious as to why Sky Hughes had TA’s journals, and was ordered to surrender them to the Court (see court documents). Travis had always said Jodi stole his journal. If so, how did Sky get hold of it, I wonder?
I am an Australian, formerly worked in Crown Prosecutor’s office. A very interesting case.
Thanks again, would love your thoughts on these points.
I don’t know why Sky had TA’s journals except if I were to guess she may have been given them from someone in Travis’s family prior to hearing held early in the case on alleged letters he wrote, that were excluded from being submitted as evidence at trial. She had a fall out with Kirk Nurmi and neither she nor Chris Hughes was shy about it.
Flores told Jodi that they could not retrieve video on the files they had that had been deleted, to my knowledge she only ever said she had 2 videos on the phone. She never admitted those pics submitted nor the phone sex tape were even valid until she needed to be an invited guest that day to support her defense.
B
Nurmi’s line ” 9 days out of 10, I don’t like jodi Arias” is to ” rewire” any jurors who believe that Arias’s reps and witnesses are biased. he also said ” this isn’t about bad haircuts” in reference to the many mentions in the media about Samuels hair. I didn’t watch all of either Martinez or Nurmi’s closing speech , I am grinding to a halt.. until the verdict.
in the meantime,
To quote William Congereve ( 1670- 1729)
“Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned.”
She did it on purpose, period.
As unpopular as this is I have thought Second Degree from when the State rested the first time. Like Mr. Nurmi in his close it’s just not premeditated and I believe Travis played a role in what happened that afternoon.
I also ponder how all these people love Jodi and find her believable. Doctors, psychologists, attorneys and jail birds cheer her on.
Mr. Nurmi and his “nine days I don ‘t like Jodi ” was an inside joke between the two of them. Between two friends.
All of Travis friends liked Jodi just fine until this trial. Now they are on HLN nightly telling their stories. Those fellow’s all liked Jodi until their wives told them not to!
Hearing Travis “talk dirty” during the phone sex turned my stomach. Young men have sexual fantasys but not with 12 year old girls. And that in his own words.
Just because Travis said it was over didn’t make it so. He turned it on and off according to his needs. Jodi WAS his booty call.
The Hughes coming on board makes me wonder just how much money the new PPL company has lost due to all the bad publicity this trial has generated for this company. They are at the top of this pyramid as are all the Cancun attendees. These folks have appeared nightly on HLN shows.
There is no proof Jodi slashed his tires. The girl he was with that evening had just gone through a bad breakup so maybe it was her ex. Nobody was charged so we are left to ponder who.
Murder Two if we are lucky. Manslaughter if we are not is my prediction.
Although it’s interesting to read other posters opinions, ideas and thoughts, I am very distressed how we focus-in on areas that shouldn’t matter in the long run like: the shot-to-the-head or knife-to-heart first.
Who CARES what came first? Really! She killed an innocent man in his home. I don’t care if she kicked him to death. The fact still remains, he’s dead and she’s trying to get away with it.
Of course we’re going to get professional expert opinions. That’s all they are. Opinions spun into facts! For we haven’t mastered time-travel quite yet to know exactly what happened we can only get professional opinions. And they then zoom in on details, and state their opinion, so they can tell a story, which they weren’t privy to see. It’s ridiculous because no man is invincible.
Another area is her hair color. Again, who cares??
She could’ve went to Mesa, announced, with purple hair, with Travis waiting with open arms. The fact still remains, he’s dead and she’s lying about it.
We’re all speculating and the smaller details don’t matter.
The smaller details get so obscure and unimportant in the bigger picture that it derails the event. I think we pretty much all agree, she illegally killed another human being.
The fact that the law gives her an opportunity to state her case in a court of law… has greatly been taken advantage of seeing she already told 2 stories and had 2 more years to re-invent a 3rd one. That ALONE should cancel out all unimportant details (like; gun or knife and…..hair color).
It’s quite frustrating to see people hung up on minor minute details when Travis, who now would’ve been 36 years old and probably a father of two, is sadly six feet underground.
I just hope the postings I read aren’t indicative of how the jurors will deliberate.
I’m hoping they’ll convene Monday morning and render a 1st degree premed verdict by Monday afternoon and not get hung up on insignificant details that merely came down to another human beings opinion.
Hang in there The Alexander family.
Blaze-
those details matter a great deal as they relate to the charges this jury is considering as well as in a general sense of what happened to Travis. Although, to your point, I see tons of minutia about this case daily nobody cares about . However, those details are very significant to conviction and to penalty.
B
I wanted to scream out during Nurmi’s close and also to the talking heads Pj party last night that The reason Jodi didn’t kill Travis when she first arrived is because she wanted to have her day with him, and premeditation thoughts on a murder in the shower would be minimal clean-up. She knew if they had sex that he would ultimately shower. Premeditation does not exclude all unforeseen events, such as gun jamming, Travis fighting back and moving with the resultant bloody mess.
It is my hope that the men on the Jury will downplay the sex tapes and texts. I hope they are at a point that they realize a woman could be so heinous.
As you know, I do not believe she did have sex with him that day. I think this woman is actually worse than they think. So much so that I would actually prefer this jury hangs than deliver a verdict of guilty on the manslaughter charge.
Sound like someone else hijacked my blog and is moderating, lol? No ma’am.
I think if this case is investigated correctly and and analyzed with the right assets and tools, that we WOULD know exactly what happened, and that Jodi Arias would plead guilty to LWOP and not be out with her can in the air in a few years.
The thought of that turns my blood cold.
B
tiberious says:
May 3, 2013 at 11:40 pm
Blink..how do you feel now that it has been turned over to the jury?
Like I want to hurl. With manslaughter on the table, I do believe this jury has the best chance of rendering a verdict they ever had.
***********
So Blink- is that what you are thinking they will likely end up leaning towards?
If it were not for the TH’s on TV, I would have had no clue what the strategy that KN was going after with his closing yesterday- having switched his preference now to “a she snapped” defense vs. self defense/DV defense. I don’t agree with it, I think one would have to really stretch the imagination to follow the chaos as he says and then eliminate everything else to conclude that but, it can be done, it has been done…
Any thoughts regarding the final jury makeup? I wonder who the foreperson is?
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/05/05/jodi-arias-trial-verdict-watch-plea-to-jury-deciding-arias-fate-hang-before-manslaughter-if-you-must/
B
If the jury is “reasonable” I still think there is a good shot at first degree murder here. I felt that the evidence was compelling for pre meditation, as there are just too many coincidences the defense tried to explain away. While I agree the cleanup was sloppy, it is impossible for anyone who was not there to know exactly what took place. Juan gave very detailed step by step info on the sequence of events, enough in my opinion that there is no reasonable doubt….reasonable being the key word. My personal opinion is that things took longer than she thought they would, and she was in a hurry to get out of there for fear someone would come home. If there is just that one holdout, I still think 2nd degree at least. I will be extremely disappointed in manslaughter, and will lose every bit of faith in our justice system if she walks. No way. Additionally, in my opinion, the defense saying it was 100% self defense and then saying, well, it could have been done in a heat of passion….looks like someone trying to get their client the best deal, and is a huge red flag. If I had any doubts before that, they would have been gone at that point.
Here is some great gas can fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7anECy6Tyo
Blink:
As you know, I do not believe she did have sex with him that day. I think this woman is actually worse than they think. So much so that I would actually prefer this jury hangs than deliver a verdict of guilty on the manslaughter charge.
The thought of that turns my blood cold.
____________________________________________
I am SO with you Blink. I really think the State got this all wrong. Well, the semi-main parts wrong.
And I hope (because I give them so much credit) that they at least contemplated our alternative scenario and just decided against it and went with their strength.
When you get into every single aspect of the testimonies heard by both sides, one HAS to wonder, why would Travis have let her in that day?….let alone, have sex with her?
Those photos, in my opinion, were from a previous encounter. Her hair has been brown for some time.
She manipulated this event so much that (like Blink stated) no one is even CLOSE to realizing her evilness.
She staged this entire event. From sneaking in his home, to uploading photos to his camera, to making him into this pedophilia.
I’m with you Blink. I rather have a hung jury then to see her get less than what she rightfully deserves.
Jden says:
May 4, 2013 at 10:12 am
Jden says, “It is my hope that the men on the Jury will downplay the sex tapes and texts. I hope they are at a point that they realize a woman could be so heinous.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink says, “As you know, I do not believe she did have sex with him that day. I think this woman is actually worse than they think. So much so that I would actually prefer this jury hangs than deliver a verdict of guilty on the manslaughter charge.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good morning everyone:
Amen to everything you wrote, Jden. I think Arias is much worse than they – and we – know. I heard Beth Karas say there was “so much evidence” that wasn’t allowed in because it was deemed to prejudicial. I suspect we and the jurors will learn the full story from the Hughes and others after the verdict is rendered.
I am a little concerned about the composition of the jury. Women jurors are known to generally be harder on female defendants than male jurors. My hope is that this jury will deliberate on the evidence and put all sympathy aside. Not all “holes” (yikes) have been filled, but I think reasonable people can infer from the evidence that this was not self defense.
Blink, I agree with you. I would rather see a hung jury than a manslaughter conviction. The sentence for manslaughter will leave her plenty of time to act out violently when she is released.
“erose says:
May 3, 2013 at 5:38 pm
Was JA abused?
No.
Did she fear for her life?
No.
Is there evidence that she premeditated TA’s murder?
Yes, circumstantial.
Is there evidence that refutes premeditation?
Yes, the crime scene.
Do I hope I my interpretation of what the jury will decide is wrong?
Yes.
Tis that very cluster, yes.
B”
—————————————————————
If Travis did not possess a gun, Jodi must have brought one with her (pre-med). But then she could say it was for protection. I don’t know if the gun issue was ever resolved. The bottom line is SHE threw away all the evidence. For me the self-defense theory never made any sense whatsoever particularly yesterday as demonstrated by Nurmi. What will the jurors decide, “heat of passion”, manslaughter? First degree murder?. I’d rather see a hung jury and retrial than Jodi walking free in a few years.
My feeling as well.
B
when Nurmi repeatedly said if premeditated, other actions wouldmake far more sense (borrow a gun, borrow a car, use cash, shoot while sleeping) I kept thinking she is not your reasonable average person, not even a typical killer.
Did JM make that point? The snip I heard was still hammering only on the she’a a liar theme. I believe she was a minutia planner; but with a brain that’s awry, her planning often went askew as well. Like GraceitHills, I believe she planned he’d be in the shower so the blood would go down the drain, an image also of bood sacrifice draining at an altar to a mentally ill person. She could’ve washed sheets to make the matter of sex difficult to prove either way forsensically. Did they test the sheets?
Did not test almost anything on fabric or fibers. Proceed with floor googling.
B
Rose says:
May 3, 2013 at 10:26 pm
@Malty. If attorneys of any specialty took only clients they liked,
they’d have very few clients. Maybe some country club chums ala Centre County. I thought Nurmi tried to get out of this. If anyone writes a book, his is the interesting one imo.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So true, Rose! I have read that Nurmi really wanted off this case. I suspect Arias tried her best to micromanage this case in every possible way. Did all of you notice how even during JM’s final closing argument she was still writing little notes to JW? What defendant does that during closing?! I think Nurmi asked Wilmott to sit next to JA during trial to help keep JA in check. Still, JA repeatedly shook her head during JM’s closing remarks. This should indicate to the jurors that she had no “fog” whatsoever when she was knifing Travis to death.
Just a word about Arias’ so called intelligence. Her IQ may be at “bright normal” range, but she is severely lacking in common sense. Can anyone here imagine potentially sacrificing his/her own life just to have the freakin’ last word in a long standing argument with an ex-boyfriend?
As those of us who live in Texas say, “this girl ain’t right.”
Yeah. Then they need to hang.
do over with different detective/forensic team.
hln writeup doesn’t predict a strong jury tho imo.
That’s why I thought they’d do 2 to go home.
This is my fear. I don’t think people realize what a big deal it is to get this instruction this late. The last case Martinez tried he himself added it, and that was the verdict.
B
Some are having a hard time with the premeditation concept. All the secrecy prior to and after the act point to premeditation.
The real red flag to me is the fact that she cleaned up some of the mess and never made any attempt to contact the police.
My sequence is not that of the prosecution.
I think she may have enticed Travis into the shower for the pictures. During that session I believe she asked him to close his eyes and turn his head to the left for a photo. When he complied is when she attacked with the knife to the heart area. There is a lesser wound above the deep one and that is from the time when Travis began to defend himself.
The knife had to be in Jodi’s possession prior to this attack as did the gun. That is another act of premeditation. Then when he began to defend himself, she quickly backed up and pulled the gun firing one shot prior to it jamming. This is what created the blood at the sink.
When he paused to pull himself together, she dropped the gun and went back to the knife, stabbing him in the back and across the lower skull in the back. That is when Travis tried to escape and went down the hall. The initial stab wound would have killed him in a few more minutes.
The blood arc in the hallway indicates he was beginning to loose his ability to move. That is where Jodi grabbed him from behind with his hair and pulled his head back to cut his throat. After that, it was a matter of trying to get him back to the shower, which she accomplished and cleaning up the mess. The clean up was much more than she planned for so she ran out of time and was forced to leave prior to the housemates returning.
I hope that the majority of the jurors will see this nearly as I have described and convict her of murder in the first degree. The sentence should be death or LWOP. This woman is evil and destructive. Society should not ever be concerned with her presence again.
This is a mature jury. While it should mean that they have enough of life’s experiences to do the right thing, there is always the possibility that one cannot see all the planning and will hold out for the lesser charge. If the chosen foreperson is strong enough, they might be able to convince a hold-out to do the right thing.
Blink, I cringe to ask this of you. You have stated that you believe Arias was uninvited. Do you believe she entered the home at 0400 on June 4? If she was uninvited and they didn’t have sex or sleep… what on earth do you think transpired during the 12 plus hours? Did she hold him hostage at gunpoint for 12 hours? What ends of mental torture did Travis endure before being killed in the most evil way?
The more I contemplate June 4 and all of the varying scenarios, the more I feel that this absolutely could not have occurred IN ANY WAY without being pre-meditated. No matter what happened in that house, all that occurred could not have resulted in Jodi over-powering this man and then walking out the door freely and unscathed without pre planning.
This is what I am saying. It is worse. I really don’t think I can form a chronology outside of what I already have without more investigative data. Thus my comments that we will know what happened after trial though FOIA requests.
I do not believe he knew she was there that day until she was taking pics of him and here is the problem. You are asking the questions that imo, the jury should know the answers to going into deliberations and that scares me.
B
I didn’t think the “she’s a liar & your only source is her”
theme was a strong argument for a death penalty case.
It needed to be a forensic argument.
I had the exact same thought that I wished there was a mis-trial so she could be retried. I then thought about all the money being spent because of this woman’s actions. She is the star ( or maybe black hole) in this production and I hate, hate, hate the thought she enjoys it. I want this woman put away and forgot about.
As far as her art work it is very close to the character of it’s drawer. It is copied from other’s work…she copies other’s….it has no depth…it is an outline…the lines are sharp…it looks pretty but it is only a shallow, hard line copy with no soul.
Fwiw, I don’t believe she and Travis had sex that day. I just wish Maricopa County had asked the FBI to help analyze the data in the camera and the card.
Totally and emphatically agree. There is a strategy within that itself. I am not going to go into detail here, but it has to do with the difference in discovery requirements from a Federal agency.
B
Blink, I am having some difficulty posting this morning. I just submitted comments but got no indication my comments had posted and were awaiting moderation. When I submitted it again, I got a message saying it was a duplicate post. Is there anything I need to do on my end to prevent a duplicate post?
they are up m’lady. Let me know if you have any future issues. We updated to a new and ginormous server over this weekend, appolly if on our end.
B
@Rose
“Did they test the sheets?”
——————————————————-
Didn’t Jodi run the sheets (along with the camera) through the Washer? If so, there goes blood evidence.
I feel dirty, just looking at her.
Question for Futureman:
Are your initials H.R? Totally remind me of someone I know
Starsky- respectfully I would not allow Futureman to answer that
B
i think if this case was properly defended there’s no way a verdict of first degree murder would happen. My guess is first degree verdict on monday and possibly even the death penalty…but i think somewhere down the line the first degree verdict will be overturned on appeal. I see too many issues that have legs for appeal. Either way, I was very overcome by emotion when the jury was told they could start deliberations, it came out of no where.
Yes ma’am on the proper defense. I wish I shared your optimism on a verdict at all, let alone Monday.
B
@Ode
“I had the exact same thought that I wished there was a mis-trial so she could be retried. I then thought about all the money being spent because of this woman’s actions. She is the star ( or maybe black hole) in this production and I hate, hate, hate the thought she enjoys it. I want this woman put away and forgot about.”
———————————————————————-
I agree. She’s “infamous”. If she does “hit the streets” what guy in his right mind would date her?
In old age, I look to literal before figurative, so wrt google floor, I end up right back at BOC.
I found many valuable Blink responses & am still reading.
A selection:
JA confronted him in shower with gun. He flung door open on her.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/01/17/jodi-arias-travis-alexander-murder-trial-day-8-sex-lies-and-duct-tape-causing-jury-doubt/comment-page-5/#comments
gunshot in front of right sink.
neck wound on hall floor.
sink blood is aspirated.
Do you still believe maybe someone helped her? The smoker? Was her Dad a smoker?
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/01/17/jodi-arias-travis-alexander-murder-trial-day-8-sex-lies-and-duct-tape-causing-jury-doubt/comment-page-1/#comments
whodunit…I agree with you that the connection of water in the JA case is uncanny.
I read somewhere that women who kill somehow try to imitate the womb and that is shown or used in their methods of killing. For example:
Women who kill often kill using water, or use water in their killing. For example:
Andrea Yates – Drown her 5 children
LaShanda Armstrong drove her minivan into the Hudson river to drown her children
Susan Smith in South Caroline drove her car into a to kill her children
Stephanie Shields in Minnesota drown her two children
Jodi Arias – put Travis Alexander in the shower (I realize she didnt kill him with water but there is a great amount of water involved in the killing and cover up as you pointed out)
Or put their children in garbage bags or some other covering that simulates the lining of the womb (in or near the water)
Casey Anthony – put Caylee in a garbage bag and in a place that would flood
Darlene Phillips killed her 6 year old special needs grandchild then covered his body with a blanket and placed him near Lake Lavon in Wylie, Texas to be found
I realize that men also kill women using water. I am just in agreement that there is an eerie connection to the womb and water with women who kill.
The other comment I have is that no matter what we think about the killing of TA, no matter how much we theorize it, and examine evidence, what really matters is what those jurors think and how they analyze information that will ultimately determine JA’s fate. These jurors dont have access to online information so they cant research anything. The only information they have is in the evidence and testimony provided to them and the notes they took during the trial. Bottom line though is that their emotions and own life experiences will play out in that room. I pray that the evidence will speak to their logic and minds and that they will be convinced that slitting someone’s throat cannot possibly be an act of self defense.
I predict a guilty verdict Murder 1, before 12N the next time jury meets
Well if you don’t believe Travis had
sex that day I have to say I never believed that sex tape wasn’t some creation by Jodi
It doesn’t sound like Travis that we have heard speak
All we have is Jodi’s account of what kind of sex life they had and I have never believed her
I suppose there are texts and emails but Jodi is very creative
I thought this was worth posting here.
From HLN
By Joy McQuiston (Facebook)
“A gentle soul tenderly glided into court today.
His presence filled the room in a spiritual way.
He found he could be heard by speaking through.
Juan Martinez, whose words were solemnly true.
This tender spirit, like a soft breeze it did appear.
Past through the doors toward his family so dear.
He silently motioned for the prosecutor to proceed.
And sat among his loved ones to soften their need.
His story was told loud and clear, leaving no doubt.
Who the real victim is and what Ms. Arias is all about.
We may not see him but he is there and with candor.
A fine man we’ve come to know as Travis Alexander.”
First of all, thxs to Twitch for showing us the Egg Tree News Blog. I love it, it is so funny!
Blink, I have a couple of questions. Do you think Jodi had already forged the letters of Travis admitting that he was a pedophile and that was what he was referring to in the May 26th email? I feel like she was maybe threating to show everyone if he didn’t agree to forsake all other’s for her but instead it backfired.
Also, if she is found guilty, will his siblings be able to make victim statements to Jodi?
I am praying justice will be served. It would be so hard to accept another injustice like we had for sweet our Caylee. I hope Jodi Ann Arias doesn’t have a moments piece this weekend and if by chance she is found not guilty, I pray she and Casey would have to spend the rest of their lives on this earth together in seclusion!
I have not read them so I don’t feel it appropriate to offer an opinion on that. Yes, his family will be able to provide victim impact statements if she is convicted.
B
B
Ode, thank you for your thoughts on the art work. I’ve been waiting (and may have missed) an artist to speak about JA’s drawings.
I noticed that the female hands look exactly like her own. No signs of broken digits, though.
The work as I see it is flat, amateurish–at least, freshman-like in quality–and immature in its conception. Like someone who has only been able to view life on television.
The gun. This little item has always bothered me. Grandpa and pops both gun owners so I am thinking Jodi grew up with them. Jodi had a knife and a new gun in her car after she killed Travis. The new gun was for a camping trip she was taking with the boys..un huh.
I think Jodi always carried guns. I think that was part of her ‘what goes in your purse’. Perhaps bad places she lived or all her traveling alone or just the fact her family was familiar with guns makes sense she would feel comfortable having one with her.
Why didn’t she just say she had the gun in her purse. Well that would hang her because Juan would have danced on the table with premed as his partner.
So again Jodi lied.
It was probably the same gun taken from grandpa’s house that killed Travis but I don’t think it was taken there with the purpose of killing him.
It was with her because she…carried.
Many of us have recently been trying to figure out the exact category in the DSM-IV manual that fits the behavior of Jodi. It has been difficult as it appears that she fits into a lot of them.
I just completed reading an article on the National Institute of Mental Health site written by Thomas Insel where he claims that the DSM has devolved into a dictionary of labels with their definition.
In the paper he announces a new Research Domain Criteria with the goal of transforming diagnosis by incorporating genetics, imaging, cognitive science and other information to lay a foundation for a more scientific basis of a new classification system.
I have long thought that genetics has played a much larger roll in mental health.
Now that the outcome of this trial is in the hands of the jury, I just wanted to say first that I pray for justice, and most importantly, I pray for Travis’s family, the grieving ones left behind. Broken, and shattered, having to relive Travis’s death just one more time. May they find some peace and some sort of comfort from this trial. Jodi’s family as well. In a death penalty case, there are no winners. Both sides lose.
I thought Juan Martinez was outstanding in his closing arguments. Very compassionate, meticulous, and determined to prove to the jury premeditation, which it was IMO.
The poem, that Juan quoted by Donne was particularly moving for me, sealed the deal. Quoted below, I will have to say, that yes, even though I did not know Travis, but a little bit of me died too. Meaning, Juan was affected by this horrific crime. Perhaps emotions are good recipe for a prosecuter. applause to Juan for being Travis’s voice. Juan so eloquently closes with this prose:
John Donne (1572-1631), Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions, Meditation XVII: Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris:
“Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.
…
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend’s or of thine own were: any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee.”
Donne lived in Tudor and Stewart England, and at that time the tolling of church bells to mark various events was an important feature of daily life. The tolling referred to in the quotation is, of course, that of funeral bells. Donne’s view, which has, oddly for a 17th century Christian, much in common with 21st century eastern religions, was that all people are socially and spiritually interconnected; for example, the contemporary Buddhist view is demonstrated by the reply given by the Dalai Lama, when asked during a visit to Northern Ireland how the warring Protestants and Catholics could co-exist: “Remember we are all one – all the same”. Donne seems to be saying that whatever affects one affects us all. This is highlighted by the famous ‘no man is an island’ line at the beginning of the ‘for whom the bells tolls’ paragraph.
Donne’s Meditations concern man’s spiritual and social functioning, especially with regard to illness and death. They are somewhat mystical and difficult to interpret, especially without the benefit of experience of the nuances of the social and religious sensibilities of a 17th century Englishman. It is a testament to Donne’s insight that the work contains much that strikes deep chords with people living and dying today.
There’s some debate about what precisely what was meant. Some think that Donne was simply pointing out people’s mortality and that when a funeral bell was heard it was a reminder that we are nearer death each day, i.e. the bell is tolling for us. Others view it more mystically and argue that Donne is saying we are all one and that, when one dies, we all die a little. This isn’t as bleak as it might sound, as the counterpoint would be that there is some part of the living in the dead and that we continue a form of life after death.
Be it as it may, regarding the jurors: each and every one has been privy to testimony since day one of the trial. The crime was committed in June 2008..nearly five years ago. There is speculation as to when a verdict may be reached. I have faith the jury will have done due diligence and deliver a verdict based on evidence regardless of the time it take to reach a decision. My thoughts are with them and the families they began their very difficult deliberations.
@ A Texas Grandfather says:
May 4, 2013 at 10:35 pm
I completely agree with you. It is a fascinating topic, personally. Older children with a dad/family full of DX mental illnesses of which they have a variety. 16-years husband with younger kids and no DX of mental illness with any of the family. This case has certainly hit home on a personal level and I have learned so much. Thanks for sharing.
“Starsky says:
May 4, 2013 at 5:01 pm
I predict a guilty verdict Murder 1, before 12N the next time jury meets”
I AGREE!!! Just like I heard last night from Mark Eiglarsh (sp?): the jury probably walked into the deliberation room and one of them said, “THE FOG!” and they all burst out laughing!
That’s what I picture, them laughing at the absurdity that JA thinks they’re stupid enough to buy that BS.
Elizabeth says:
May 4, 2013 at 9:10 pm
It was probably the same gun taken from grandpa’s house that killed Travis but I don’t think it was taken there with the purpose of killing him.
It was with her because she…carried.
—————————————————
Neither the defense nor the prosecution argued that Travis was killed by the gun. Arias may have carried many things; a knife perhaps and handcuffs. Handcuffs would explain her ability to overpower Travis. And they may have explained that painful look on his face in the shower. He knew he was done; that much seems clear.
In the end that little gun she didn’t need was Arias undoing. She wouldn’t admit she brought the gun so she made up a story that was completely impossible. Travis had a gun on the top shelf in the closet so she used her Spiderman powers to retrieve it. Why place that gun on the top shelf? Because that would help ensure that no one could contradict her about the existence of the gun. One other problem with that story, Since the claimed the gun belonged to Travis there would be no need to take it with her.
I don’t understand how the defense got so many things wrong with this case. I could go on; all of you could. What’s the point? The defense is just plain wrong.
Blink did Jodi buy that 9mn before or after she killed Travis I am confused
About her and guns
But the fact she carried as Elizabeth thinks may be true. How could she even buy a gun
I think we have no idea how dangerous Jodi is
I hope the jury does a lot of thinking
She bought the 9MM after the murder.
B