Kyron Horman Exclusive Report: New Suspect And Botched Investigation Rumors Abound- Terri Horman Prepares To Fight For Couples Daughter Following Seclusion
If you are reading this and have followed the Kyron Homan disappearance coverage since he vanished from Skyline School on June 4th 2010, you know my coverage and commentary has focused on the macro analysis of the case details- both publicly available and via developed sources. This report contains newly released information known to law enforcement. It’s contents, to include reader commentary and moderation response, may not be reproduced or copied without express written consent by it’s author in accordance with applicable copyright law.
*TONIGHT* LIVE ON THE DANA PRETZER SHOW- S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief discusses the Kyron Horman Case status LIVE at 9PM EST.
Click Here To Listen To Podcast
Last Week’s Meet And Greet
On Tuesday July 30th, the attorneys representing Terri Moulton Horman, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young attended a series of case hearings. Not held in chambers as announced, but public guests were barred.
On the docket- Desiree Young’s “stay” status of the $10 million dollar civil tort action brought against Terri Horman and the dissolution (divorce and custody) litigation brought by Kaine Horman, Terri’s estranged husband. Until July 26th, there were additional hearings and status conferences scheduled for the recently renewed Freedom From Abuse and Protection Act (FAPA) motion to contest and compel depositions in the restraining order prohibiting Terri Horman from contact with the couple’s daughter Kiara, now 5 years old. Horman has not seen her daughter since June 2010 despite several attempts through counsel to arrange parenting time. Engel, one of the attorneys representing Kaine Horman, argues that the FAPA case is consolidated with the divorce action, and therefore stayed.
Peter Bunch, counsel for Terri Horman, argues that there is no consolidation order.
Non attorney’s still do not understand how the initial proceeding to renew the FAPA order occurred when the plaintiff failed to file the required motion and accompanying affidavits in advance as required, or even serve the respondent’s attorneys until ordered to do so by Judge Henry Kantor once the hearing commenced. Kantor ordered the renewal anyway. I will let the goodly Oregon bar members weigh in on that anomaly.
That was then. This is now.
As of July 31st, the FAPA restraining order was expired and a civil no contact order was put in its place. The dissolution matter (divorce) stay has been lifted and Desiree Young announced she was instructing her attorney’s to withdraw the $10 million dollar suit financed by public donations.
On the same front steps where Atty Rosenthal announced that they were launching the suit to peel the onion that is to include law enforcement, and to “make Terri Horman talk” was withdrawn in similar fashion.
However, on this occasion, Multnomah County District Attorney Rod Underhill was not spotted on the steps observing. Rosenthal and Young indicated the recent appearance and testimony of former object of compulsion to testify, DeDe Spicher, as well as information that the investigative case file necessary (their words) to prove their claims would not be forthcoming. In an article analyzing the suit appearing on BOC it was predicted that Ms. Young would face possible countersuit and associated fees should the suit continue as filed.
Attorneys for both Kaine and Terri appeared before Multnomah County Circuit Family law Judge Susan Svetkey on August 1, 2013. Judge Svetkey is Houze’s wife. The docket information for that hearing has not yet been entered into the file as of this publication.
The only comment about the withdrawal of the civil tort action by Stephen Houze:
“The lawsuit was unfounded and lacking in legal merit,” Houze said. “One can only hope that the dismissal of this meritless lawsuit receives the same degree of media scrutiny as was given to its filing.”
In recent interviews, Kaine Horman has intimated that his wife has expressed her desire to help find Kyron, or at least contribute to excluding herself as a possible suspect. He also admitted that he no longer has any communication with Desiree Young, Kyron’s mother. He sometimes wonders what law enforcement is actually doing on his son’s case. This is a firm departure from how Mr. Horman initially retained his six figure attorney Laura Rackner of Gearing, Rackner, and Engel & McGrath. Ms. Rackner appears to have promulgated her duties of late to her partner, Brett Engel.
This all seemed to start when formidable and well known tort Attorney Mark Wagner came out of retirement to appear as counsel for Terri Horman. Wagner and Rackner know each other, and Rackner is no stranger to LE –based dissolution entanglements.
In fact, Wagner represented her and her previous firm successfully.
Bagel Finagle
Kaine Horman’s attorney Laura Rackner is no stranger to law enforcement infused litigation. She is a former prosecutor for Oregon’s department of Justice, The U.S. Department of Justice, and Office of Chief Counsel. Ms. Rackner has specificity in Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) casework.
Born in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Laura received her B.S. in 1979 and her J.D. in 1984, both from the University of Oregon.
Prior to entering private practice, Laura served as deputy district attorney in the Marion County District Attorney’s Office; assistant attorney general in the Oregon Department of Justice; and on the staff of the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Chief Counsel, Drug Enforcement Administration.
Record Scratch.
Martin Rob Cagan, The bagel king and according to him, a supreme target of a police shakedown at the hands of his former spouse’s attorneys was the litigious sort.
In fact, this may be how Atty Wagner decides to come out of retirement and become part of Terri Horman’s defense team while the civil suit was active.
Wagner’s firm represented Ms. Rackner in a suit filed by Rob Cagan in which he sued the Dueshete Police Department, A partner in the firm representing Caroleen Vanhoomissen, the suit (or ramblings of a very angry divorcee) alleges that the firm and its lawyers facilitated the difficulties of Mr. Cagan utilizing law enforcement sources directly by the attorneys was dismissed.
Ms. Vanhoomissen, the sister of Judge Vanhoomissen is also the owner of a horse farm in Bend, Oregon. Blinkoncrime was unable to verify if it was the Bend horse farm searched in the early days of the investigation for Kyron.
Attorney Rackner’s prior working relationship with the DEA, the very agency that supplied the undercover officer in the failed sting involving Horman landscaper Rudy Sanchez begs the question- Did Rackner use her contacts and/or credentials to facilitate a surreptitious ruse to gain favor for her client in anticipation of his wife’s potential arrest?
Kaine is on record that law enforcement informed him they had probable cause to arrest Terri. What is not on record, is what came first- the referral to Rackner.
I just want to do what I can to help law enforcement
Seems like an odd comment coming from a family attorney with a background as a prosecutor working with the DEA, which agency subsequently becomes involved in the case- or initially led to her representation- the chicken or the egg facts remain unclear.
The ex parte and originally sealed restraining order did not exclude Terri Horman from the marital home. Was this an oversight of a very seasoned family attorney or was the basis of the now defunct restraining order as provided to Kaine Horman and Laura Rackner by law enforcement effectively invalidated by Terri Horman calling 911?
Is the reason that Atty Engel seems to have taken over representation of Kaine Horman due to the fact that these actions could render Ms. Rackner a witness in her client’s case as opposed to his Attorney?
In the motions and subsequent hearing scheduled for July 30th, the only available arguments outside of the parties agreement is to contest the basis for the FAPA order- or, the allegation Kaine Horman has made within his affidavits more than once, that his wife tried to hire “our landscaper” to kill him, and that she is being investigated for “violent crimes.”
The outcome?
The order was converted to a civil no-contact order which has not yet been added to the file for public review.
Desiree and Kaine’s respective camps both claimed “protecting the integrity of the investigation” was their only interest although the ONLY 2 witnesses who were summoned for deposition by Terri Horman’s lawyers were- the lead investigator of Kyron’s investigation for 18 months- Bobby John O’Donnell and Kaine Horman.
Back To School
Skyline School, the International Baccalaureate candidate who announced the IB open house format weeks earlier via take home handouts to its students and also by displaying the event on its marquis has never been declared a crime scene. Although in nearly every legal support brief or news coverage article Terri Horman was dubbed “the last person to be seen with Kyron Horman” or more recently by Desiree Young as “Kyron was last seen by someone who cared about him at 8:45 am” absolutely no witness account or Science Fair insider was known publicly to dispute such accounts.
Until now.
“Once I learned all that was going on that same day, in that same school, I did not understand why I was being told that Terri Horman was the suspect, and one other person… It never made sense to me that they knew Kyron was seen with someone else besides his stepmother after she left, that they seemed to not even consider another theory.” (*Editor’s Note*- parts of the source’s quote have been redacted as they would reveal identity of witnesses in an ongoing criminal investigation)
Electric Slide?
Sometime after Terri Horman left the school with her daughter Kiara in tow, she was captured on store video prior to Kyron’s exit from Skyline School. It is believed Kyron was last seen between 9:05 and 9:20 AM.
The following is a summation of multiple direct witness accounts, edited to protect witness identification only.
“…He must have been standing behind me because I only recall hearing him ask if the boy could help him bring some stuff in from his truck. I thought it was (edited) until he looked up at him and then he looked at Ms. Matthews for approval and she nodded her head yes in response. They walked out of the South entrance together and I do not recall seeing either of them again.
Classroom 1 Property of www.blinkoncrime.com
(Editor’s Note: It is believed that Desiree and Kaine’s comments about concern that instruction they gave him last year about listening to staff “came back to haunt them.” They have never acknowledged they were told about this witness account but a source close to www.blinkoncrime.com has confirmed they were informed but not given a witness description.
www.blinkoncrime.com has confirmed the EXIF data on the image includes the timestamp of June 4 2010 at 8:43AM PST.
Backstory OR Backdrop?
Among the peers of Kyron Horman in attendance on June 4th, were some children whose parents may have been granted access via the open house format, although documents filed with the school and LE would preclude the parents from removing them.
In fact, the mother of a chief witness in this case was arrested that very day for attempting to fill a script that did not belong to her, in a pharmacy that Terri Horman allegedly also visited that morning.
Another child whose parents lost custody due to very long histories with substance abuse and associated criminal behavior had the additional possible misfortune of closely resembling both Kaine and Terri Horman.
Non Custodial Parent Red Long Hair
It is unknown whether either parent took the opportunity to visit the school that day, but they were not included on the published list. While barred legally from removing their child from the school they could not be barred from a publicly announced invitational. There was no ID checks or sign-in sheets for non-volunteer guests.
In an unrelated twist, the child’s Father was found deceased in front of a Portland residence in April 2012. The name of the child and Kyron’s schoolmate, guardians and parents are being intentionally withheld for this article.
Sovereignty In lieu Of..
Among the many unanswered questions in Kyron’s disappearance: Why hasn’t the school been held accountable? He disappeared on their watch- with a concise standard of care duty and plan.
What really happened?
There is no dispute that Kyron had an exchange that resulted in a teacher nodding her approval that Kyron assist a man in his stated purpose- to bring things in from his truck. There is no dispute that Kyron was last seen at Skyline School. There is no dispute that both Kyron’s parents expressed concern that last year’s discipline involving instruction on being a better listener may have come back to haunt them. They said so.
What may be in dispute, for sure, is how accurate the list of attendees at the Skyline School of June 4th, 2010 is.
As an example, one witness told Editor In Chief, S. Christina Stoy that a young male former student said hello to Susan Hall and when asked by a parent who the lad was a few days later, she said she was not sure. He is NOT on the list.
When another parent subsequently asked Ms. Hall who the student was following Kyron’s disappearance to verify he was on the published list- she responded she could not remember. Ms. Hall was the Skyline Administrative staff who contacted 911 upon speaking to Terri Horman and learning Kyron was not on the bus. Hall subsequently contacted Desiree Young. She did this while the Horman’s were on their way back to the school to see if Kyron might have thought he was being picked up that day as opposed to riding the bus or some other sort of snafu.
According to the MCSO, the school records that could assist the investigation were never requested to be preserved by investigators and as a result were deleted.
So why was the Skyline School never named as a defendant in the previously pending litigation filed by Kyron’s mother Desiree Young?
The reason may lie in the recreational designation utilized on June 4th, 2010.
According to the National Policy and Legal Analysis Network (napl) it may be a simple question of whether Kyron disappeared during the “recreational” portion of the program.
Napl’s guidance to lawyer’s advising Oregon schools can be read here. Although the overall plan is relative to an obesity initiative, it would include research and advice on any school recreational or regularly scheduled event. Please tell me Cogen does not factor into this.
The following are excerpts from the report:
…”Absent special liability protection, school districts and other providers of recreational facilities have the legal duty to take reasonable precautions to prevent injury. What is reasonable is very context specific and depends on many things: most important, the nature of the harm, the difficulty of preventing it, and generally accepted standards in the management of recreational facilities…”
…” The only immunity Oregon grants to public bodies, which include school districts,2 is discretionary government immunity.3 Discretionary government immunity applies to choices “among alternative public policies by persons to whom responsibility for such policies have been delegated.”4 To fall under the protection of this doctrine, Oregon courts have said, the choice must result from the exercise of judgment and involve a public policy or nonroutine day-to-day activity.
…” In summary, Oregon immunizes schools for policy choices its officials make, but it holds schools liable for breaches of duty that occur in carrying out those policy choices…”
…” The recreational user statute should therefore provide strong protection to Oregon schools seeking to avoid liability arising from after-hours outdoor recreational programs on school grounds. Applying this statute to indoor recreational activities, however, is much riskier, although the case law does not preclude such a strategy.
Regular School Day- Changes Things
…” In Oregon, schools owe students a duty to “supervise at all times the conduct of children on school grounds and to enforce those rules and regulations necessary to their protection. . . . The standard of care imposed upon school personnel in carrying out the duty to supervise the conduct of students is that degree of care which a person of ordinary prudence, charged with comparable duties, would exercise under the same circumstances.”37
Is the issue of liability to Skyline School relegated to what time Kyron was abducted, presuming he was abducted, as is believed?
Very possibly.
As we know, the school opened early the morning of June 4th, 2010, as was displayed on the school’s marquis at least 2 weeks prior. Without particular knowledge of when the suspect responsible for Kyron’s disappearance entered the school, and under what auspice, one is left to the timeline of Kyron’s activities as juxtaposed with the start of the school day. As a regular standard of care, one could argue that begins with a student getting on the bus, if a passenger, on their regular route. What if a bus passenger is attending the “event” outside of the bus transportation? Admittedly, it seems moot inasmuch as neither one of Kyron’s parents have filed suit against the school or named them as having any negligence or liability. That said, it remains a possibility in the event Kyron is found.
There is no question Kyron was seen after 8:45AM- which is the time that a regularly scheduled bus arrives- which would ring the bell, so to speak, on the normal school day.
To be Continued:
Roid Noise And The Boys In Blue- Publishing Thursday August 8. Preview Discussion Tonight on THE DANA PRETZER SHOW.
Ellie Sanders contributed research to this report.
Jacqueline Beaufort, contributing editor
Image retouching courtesy of Klaasend
Previous Coverage:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/
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@TRuth. antiDeDe FB, which is open to public w/out signing into FB.
I went to see if it was still active, & of course…. GJ
& ERosenthal’s victory lap isn’t enough to take it down.
I didnt look past that last post, but assume the poster was a
friend of the lady emceeing who apparently wants a job therefore
needed an audience. I was a bit offended she was recruiting a
1-sided audience so I cross-posted, which I normally don’t recommend.
To be honest, I didn’t listen (juggling a/c man & electrician at same time.)
T.ruth I have always felt that TMH was wasting time. And, I have always wanted to know what number(s) the office had on file to call “in case of emergency” In the beginning I thought possibly she was trying to avoid getting the call that Ky was absent thereby delaying the “APB” so to speak. This only works if she was in cahoots with SZ. If she was not in cahoots then I agree that as a parent with a sick child I would have taken her home and put her to bed, or rocked her till the cows came home and she felt better. JMOO.
“TRuth. As I read ATG, he’s saying doesn’t matter if it was locked if villain had pulled up far enough, because he could egress hooking em onto the dirt road of the adjacent residence (at N end iirc) where the soccer field road & adjacent residence road were only a ft apart (AS IF those mcso Detectives would’ve looked for tire tracks before sending reams of searchers to trample the property).ATG has map analysis skills mcso should drool over
If sub said there’s 5, Kyron would’ve made 6 in a group,
which is insane with 7 yos in a familiar
environment with 200+ other kids cruising the halls
overstimulating each other.
I never put it together b4 that MM was the man with the 2 girls.
T. Ruth says:
August 7, 2013 at 4:56 pm
snip>
T.Ruth- I admire your juxtpah, but I can’t answer that. Except for this. It was rainy that day, and no, he was not wearing sunglasses.
I am going to ask y’all to read previous posts and comments please- dude with the 2 young ladies Sam Adam’s felt the need to tweet about is not SZ.
B
Reading through this thread for things I’ve missed. You can cut me off when my posts go into double digits, lol. I am reading this the door it is thought SZ entered.
Thank you vw, I am aware, and I have pics of all the entrances and exits of the school. It was the North emergency exit door next to CR109.
B
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/08/06/kyron-horman-exclusive-report-new-suspect-and-botched-investigation-rumors-abound-terri-horman-prepares-to-fight-for-couples-daughter-following-seclusion/comment-page-1/#comments
T. Ruth
The view from Google Earth does not show a fence around the soccer field or a gate to get onto the blacktop roadway around them. If there is a fence, it does not show. A fence normally will have shadows at regular intervals on the overhead view.
If there really is a fence, then my theory would not work. The gate is indefinite. A gate where?
Rose says:
August 16, 2013 at 6:32 pm
In my opinion, a successful principal would have taken mcso’s bull by the horns & demanded a community mtg with LE to process memories. PPS Admin & his supervisors & his brownnosing career be damned. That’s what Ray Myrtle, the successful school reformer (whose Harvard study url of his supervision strategies I’ve put here before) would’ve done. If a principal “buys” mcso’s investigation, he also will “buy” lousy curriculum products for his kids because Admin says so and will hire weak staff or give a place to a lousy teacher his Supv needs to park somewhere til retirement. A good principal can just say “no” to his Supt & is willing to walk away on principle, as well as force into retirement or rotate out weak teachers. Serms to me Keefer’s goal was to please Admin.
———————
“A good principal can just say “no” to his Supt & is willing to walk away on principle, as well as force into retirement or rotate out weak teachers.”
@Rose – you are sooooooo right! I feel so blessed to have worked in the schools I did. I KNOW what our (each of the different schools where I worked) response would have been (with 2 exceptions). Every child was like family. You would have seen an uprising of major proportions if anything had happened to one of ours, or a staff person. I’ve had principals who stood up to superintendents – they generally had no trouble happily finding a job in another district – a few came back when that supt moved on. I’ve worked with teachers who gave interviews and letters to the editor against their boss’s wishes.
NONE of that feeling is showing here. It’s hard to understand why. We would have been banging on the door at the union office, the mayor’s office, the local media, everywhere we could go trying to get help with answers. If some person or group was able to silence that effort, it would have been for some very powerful reason.
I think so many teachers and staff feel those strong attachments to the kids they teach – look at the schools where violence has occurred and their responses. I think that sense of protectiveness is more common than not. It’s scary that I don’t feel that here. Either the culture made other things a higher priority or something specific has caused those natural responses to be so subdued.
The 2 exceptions I recall had to do with fear that the school would fail to attract enough students to stay open if the media reported about a number of muggings of students arriving at school, or that a busload of kids was shot at and a bus window broken on their way from my school to another. The first problem was secret for a long time before I found out. The second, I heard about right away. The administrators tried to make light of it as part of the neighborhood problems. I said I could not as a staff person ask parents to send kids to my school if I was too scared to ride that bus myself – so I did. Fortunately, it didn’t happen again. But the point is – why are the Skyline people so quiet? Is that supposed to be TH’s fault too?
wpg says:
August 16, 2013 at 1:39 am
QUIZZICAL, YOU ARE THE BEST!!
Fantastic video.
wpg- how does what our Quizzie ( my nickname) posted effect your thoughts or view in this case discussion?
B
———————————–
One advantage of the access road location it seems to me is that if Kyron realized the danger at the last minute and yelled, he would probably not have been heard due to elevation differences and distance from the school. (And people, if any, who live near a school tend to tune out yelling as playground noise when school is in session.)
(Please add my thanks to quizzical, also.)
So, if TP saw and interacted with Kyron, was TP in a group with other classmates who could corroborate TP’s account and timeline?
The “outdoor” interview of TP, first video down on left side of page:
Friend: ‘I Hope Kyron comes back’
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/09/oregon.missing.boy/index.html?eref=ib_topstories
. . . and was TP the only one to allegedly see TMH leave and the only one who allegedly heard the “Oh, no/Calm down” exchange between MissP and the substitute?
No.
B
R E V E L A T I O N.
Do you mean to say that any media that wanted to ask questions about the man Kyron was seen leaving the building with were booted by KH? That is the secret he was protecting?
January says:
August 7, 2013 at 9:17 pm
snip>
Having all this knowledge, Blink, and repeatedly talking about SZ with absolutely nobody reporting on it, you must feel like your microphone has been turned off in a large crowd of people.
A brilliant analogy on your part January- but I feel like that must have been Kyron’s fate.
I don’t think there is any shortage of let-down in the msm in Oregon in this case. After all, who wants it publicly known they got booted from a press conference in their backyard? Only one I can think of that took that on.
B
did someone here write that SZ was wearing a hoodie on June 4, 2010?
TIA
no
B
@TRuth- Of course this is just a guess, but in my mind, I figured TH was on the phone chatting (general chatting assumed) and was trying to get Kitty sleepy enough to not be so fussy so she could go to the gym. If she had gone home, she may not have made it there. MOO – but that is how I reasoned her joy ride to Sauvie.
HOWEVER – Early on, I felt maybe TH had explicit plans in advance and did in fact meet up with another man for extramarital relations and since she had Kitty with her, she may have bought Benadryl at FM or Albertson’s and also drove Kitty around to induce a nap so she would sleep through the “rendezvous”. While “potential” behavior such as this is not appealing and is somewhat scandalous…if true, still does not make TH a murderer or kidnaper.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
Quizzical, that white truck on the access road that you accidently captured — wouldn’t it be something if that is actually SZ returning to the scene of his crime for his own gratification, maybe more often than not.
Wonder if LE could study those photos and ID the truck and owner? And after you discovered that you had accidently captured the white truck, if you’d seen it sooner, what would have happened if you had turned onto that access road with your camera for a closer look at the truck and driver (if there was someone in there)?
I wonder if that truck is there often? — maybe people would just assume it was Stenson. But it COULD be SZ, returning to his crime scene…..
Why are we so sure Stenson is NOT SZ?
(I’m still remembering Ward Weaver, the killer in Oregon City who allowed a reporter to interview him while they both stood on top of a cement slab that had one body buried beneath…)
What would be the chance that Kaine’s sexting friend could be SZ?
I am absolutely certain Stenson is not SZ.
Cook is not SZ.
SZ is suspect zero because his ID is unknown and to date cannot be traced to TMH or anyone else in this case as a result.
Yet.
B
Probalby wrong here, because I haven’t looked up the clip — but I find it fairly hypocritical that KH would have his arm around wifey-dear, TMH, during that press conference, hugging her devotedly — when all he wanted to do was kick her out and be rid of her. And keep the shiny red car.
How is it that KH gets a free pass on all of this? Do we all really believe that he was truly un-involved in something that caused Kyron to be lost?
@bumble ty for sharing that, it seems alot of the comments following the first year newspaper items had lots of people saying similar.
@erose
on june 7 gates tells the press they dont think the case warrants a nationwide search, and a couple of days later reassuring parents that were worried about a stranger abduction, this to me says they were not looking at a stranger abduction. by june 5 they had interviewed tmh 5 times. this to me says they already had their abducter.
when le asked for info about the access road it was aug 11, by this time people knew she was the defacto suspect. they only asked about her truck, even giving ford 5250. imo if tmh had parked other than the access road and someone saw another truck on the acces road they wouldnt have mentioned it to le, le didnt want to know about it.
le asked specifically between 8:15 and 8:45. at that time they had nailed tmhs timeline and what time she would have had to leave and be on video at fred m and have that receipt. they may also have had witness confirmation that she left skyline no later than 8:45.
when stensen came forward his statement meant tmh couldnt have arrived and departed skyline, parking on access road, between 8:15 and 8:45, he would have gone thru the road then.
the next day when stensen said he changed his mind he didnt leave till 8:45 or 9, tmh could have parked there and left without him noticing. in a doj review, or any review by anyone outside the local area, i would think that that le “talk” with stensen would show interference or intimidation or just lousy le work.
this whole thing also said to me that there were witnesses who saw kyron by a white truck on the access road. le was intent on it being tmh.
since it didnt fit they could have surmised that it was another white truck kyron was by but didnt, they were wanting tmh to fit in this crime. its my opinion that terri parked elsewhere and witness confirmed that and so they just blew off witnesses claim of seeing kyron on the access road . ie: we can prove tmh didnt park there so that witnes(es) is wrong. i think this case from the beginning, except for “he may have wandered off”, has been trying to prove tmh involvement so much so that they didnt even look at a tmh accomplice for way too long.
this is just my opinion of what happened, i see that it shows le in bad light and i suggested le wrongdoing, besides just accidently making mistakes. perhaps they will be upset, perhaps they will publicly clarify their behavior.
blink i am having trouble posting this, sorry if it sends more than once.
T. Ruth says:
August 16, 2013 at 2:45 pm
T. Ruth says: I know it doesn’t make sense, but that’s what it sounds like, like she was trying to stall and find something to do besides return home. Could this possibly have anything to do with someone using an identical vehicle that would not be noticed as odd going down the Horman drive? I can’t make any sense of this, but then neither can I make sense of Terri’s actions that day. Why didn’t she just take Kiara home?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi, T. Ruth, thanks for bringing up these issues. To this day, there are three things about TMH’s actions that day that raise red flags
for me:
1) At Skyline, TH says goodbye to Kyron and watches him walk down the hall to his class. Why didn’t she take the few extra minutes to walk him down and hand him off to his teacher? After all, he was only seven and she describes that morning as very chaotic and “uncoordinated” with 300 people milling around.
2) At Fred Meyer’s, with an obviously sick babyK in her arms, she stops Andrea Leckey and has a long conversation with her, showing her Kyron’s picture and mentioning the science fair. She had rarely spoken to Ms. Leckey in the past, so Ms. Leckey found it odd. Why did TH’s behavior change that day?
3) At around 10 AM she left the second Fred Meyer’s and drove around on the back roads for approximately 90 minutes with a sick child. When she couldn’t calm babyK, she went to the gym anyway. Why not take babyK home to her own bed if she was feeling so poorly?
*This 90 minute gap in her alibi, imo, may have made it difficult to rule her out as a suspect. BabyK certainly could not verify where she and her mom had been during that time period. I suspect that is why LE asked if anyone had seen her truck on certain roads during that window of time.
Do any of you think that LE has been able to rule her out as a suspect?
I have always suspected that two individuals were involved. Now, after looking at Quizzical’s video clips of the parking lot, I am even more convinced. Could a single perp have pulled it off? Possibly, but imo he would have had to be familiar with the school layout and routines. AJMO.
@Rose, That was stellar research on LEO’s. Just got to review and appreciate it all in one place.
Rose says:
August 8, 2013 at 10:15 pm
The only type of thing I can think that might be needed for the SF that wasn’t already there on site was a perishable item, along the lines of dry ice. What ever stuff was, it had to be something that additional hands of a seven year old would help, if the story went into such depth. Stuff had to be awkward to carry, but not heavy.
Man, was he attracted to the butterfly free-ers, and followed them in that door?
wpg says:
August 10, 2013 at 11:24 pm
So, of all the school doors and exits, this guy, per witness accounts, chooses an emergency door.
How would he know an alarm wouldn’t sound?
There was no emergency alarm system attached to any door, and aside from it being an emergency door, he came in the outside door next to the flowerboxes, so I submit he knew the floor plan.
B
There was no doctor’s appt. scheduled for the 4th, regardless of what TH said to Porter, or what Porter thought.
There would/should have been an appt. scheduled on the 11th, whether TH used it as a ruse, or not. TH either needed it for a cover story or she really intended to take Kyron to the doctor.
We believe she provided Porter with paper work the day before the SF that Porter did not give back to her on the 4th, or question when she would have the time in 24 short hours to fill out, or question why TH took Kyron to the appt. without the paperwork.
So if LE said tomorrow, yes Kyron had an appt. for the 11th, what would that tell us? IMO, z.i.p.
Just a guess, but could the multiple witness ID’s of the same man in various places have anything to do with his clothes, accessories? Would have worked for June 4th, but have no value now, or anytime after June 4th.
@Tiberious, Re-read your comment. My response was inappropriate. I apologize.
A Texas Grandfather,
Thank you for taking a second look at those bathroom symbols on the floor plans.
blink mentioned something about le having agents around the school area long after kyrons disapearance, i was wondering if they were investigating the mathews related exchange, but not commenting on it publicly. could it be that they checked it out and had some reason to believe sz would return, or maybe they suspected someone (other than mathews) involved at the school? there is no way i would think they expected a stranger to try to snatch another child at that same school. maybe tmh was a public diverson to a different investigation, or maybe they have enough to arrest tmh but not convict, and they cant i.d. her accompice, if she is involved. see i have seen other cases of le mishandeling crime scenes and implicating the wrong person, but not the fbi, who were (are?) involved so much in this case.
There was early rumor of a man there that claimed or was at one time a principal in the Oregon School System. Does anyone else remember this. Was it all only rumor, it seemed to me it was but still?
It is my understanding he was not, I was able to verify that he did tell more than one person that, and I find that odd, but that was prior to Kyron’s abduction. He was asked about it after the fact, and although it could have no correlation, he did not volunteer after that.
B
How do I delicately remind posters here what parent was arrested on June 4, 2010 for TAMP DRUG REC at one of the same places TH was.
I have not said Ode, I think there is enough out there for one to find, but given the status- ya know?
B
I have not said Ode, I think there is enough out there for one to find, but given the status- ya know?
B
Thanks, that was kinda my hint…point.
yes ma’am, I gotcha.
B
Hi Tenacious T.
There are strong and responsible investigative and journalistic reasons why I have not posted that person’s name and record. I know it appears at my brother’s house, lol- he has a different structure and no direct ties to the case.
I do respect your sliding it under the door approach, LOL.
B
Sigh . . . okay.
The phrase “civil no-contact order” appears to me to be what OLive used to call a particular “section” of an order written by Judge Kantor. That section is titled by Judge Kantor as “Civil Order of Restraint”.
Judge Kantor’s order addressed 4 topics in 3 separate, titled sections.
Those 3 titles are:
1. Custody & Parenting Time
2. Exclusive Use
3. Civil Order of Restraint
It also appears, imo, that the discussions held in chambers with the attorneys and Judge culminated in the signed and agreed upon order (addressing the 4 topics) by Judge Kantor.
The FAPA was stipulated “Dismissed in its entirety” by JudgeK.
Nowhere did I read the words “without merit”.
KH and BobbyO may or may not have information to support the FAPA.
They could have made the decision not to reveal information pertaining to an on-going criminal investigation and let the FAPA case be dismissed.
Bunch’s (and Houze) motion to contest the FAPA, imo, put KH, BobbyO et al, in this position to have made no other choice, either way.
The “Civil Order of Restraint” contains wording on stipulations similar to the FAPA plus new wording on stipulations regarding “both parties”.
The “Custody & Parenting Time” and “Exclusive Use” (of the home) may have come from previous files and/or KH may have been preparing to file a “SAFETY FOCUSED PARENTING PLAN, Option A”. Depending what boxes were checked and what additional information was given in this particular parenting plan form filled out by a petitioner in a divorce case, it could resemble the stipulations in the FAPA.
“SAFETY FOCUSED PARENTING PLAN, Option A” form:
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/osca/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/parentingplanoptiona-ver04.6-23-03signatures.pdf
Anyways, sounds to me the order by Judge Kantor incorporated requests by both TMH and KH.
all MOO. moo-moo
“As an example, one witness told Editor In Chief, S. Christina Stoy that a young male former student said hello to Susan Hall and when asked by a parent who the lad was a few days later, she said she was not sure. He is NOT on the list.
When another parent subsequently asked Ms. Hall who the student was following Kyron’s disappearance to verify he was on the published list- she responded she could not remember.”
Trying to understand, did Ms. Hall at one point say this person she said hello to was a former student, but then couldn’t remember who it was? Or she didn’t remember the incident?
Did not remember the students name.
B
Beth says in the hour and a half between the time Terri left the school and was seen by Andrea Lackey WTH that time was more like 30 – 45 minutes (information available on dozens of timelines).
As i thought another opinion by someone who did not even take the time to research the most basic points of this case. No wonder HLN dumped her.
8:45 AM – 9:00 AM Terri leaves Skyline School
9:15 AM Terri at Fred Meyer #1
9:30 – 10:00 AM Andrea Leckey sees Terri and Kiara (Terri’s daughter) at Fred Meyer #2 (?)
http://archives.warpradio.com/ltrn/HandelRadio/081612.mp3
at approx 17:17
hey blink, i your article you refer to the parents with no custody, then the parents that are similar looking to tmh and kaine then you say, unrelated the boys father died. i dont know which people that means, the boy who’s mom was busted, or child of the look alike parents?
Not what I wrote sam
B
Blink replies to
quizzical:
August 16, 2013 at 12:50 am
“Would like to underscore again that I also believe Ky was seen by a white truck, similar to Kaine’s and it was parked on the access.
B”
____
Hi, Blink,
Do you also believe there was more than just Kyron and one person in and around that white truck parked on the access?
(This appears to also be part of DY’s sightee’s account. DY described the sightee as “very authentic”.)
Thank you again.
I could not certify that wpg, very good question.
B
Blink recommended we all read The Murder Business by Mark Fuhrman to understand the media’s part in these situations. I’m about 2/3 through it, and it’s quite an eye opener. The media have an entirely different goal from the rest of us–maintaining the story as long as possible, ideally never resolving it at all. He goes over high profile cases, explaining how screwed up the investigations got for all sorts of reasons. He also describes the behavior of the person apt to be guilty. They love the press, are good with it, and believe they are in control of the interviewer because of their cleverness. The interviewer/host has made agreements beforehand about what questions cannot be asked, so like any reality show, it’s not all that real. Who in this case does that remind you of?! This book is helping me to understand why things are going the way they are.
@Rose. @WPG
As we know, even without the OBVIOUS presence of a PERP, or a watered down threat of one, attendance has still decreased at Skyline. There are many schools, K-5 that have been closed with greater attendance numbers than Skyline. The PROJECTED attendance (5yr) has been going down. EVEN taking away the automatic transfer of Skyline MS students to Sylvan Middle School. Three factors are, I think, heavily involved in not putting Skyline on the chopping block. High parent involvement n the school staying open, the odd “placement” of Skyline geographically…taking in kids that would have to travel inordinate distances if Skyline closed, and, of course the culpability issue.
WPG and a board member and someone involved with the school have all confirmed this. Skyline is silent because parents are HEAVILY invested in keeping their children with their friends and friendly family goings on with teachers the parents have invested in also….with more than just volunteer time. Think AUCTIONS that fund a full-time teacher (at least) after giving the obligatory 25% over to the “poorer” schools.
@BLINK
Been busy…..but on another front. Grasshopper gave us the judge’s new contact, or, more precisely, NO-contact order.
Much has been said, with Maxine’s reading of it, about how TMH was still essentially being ordered to adhere to a NEW restraining order.
Not much has been said about the Restraints on Kaine:
“Civil ORDER RE: Custody, parenting time, exclusive use and civil order of RESTRAINT:
A. EACH party is restrained (prohibited) from intimidating, molesting, interfering with or menacing the other, or attempting to intimidate, molest, interfere with or menace the other directly or throughout third parties. (IE…friends of Kaine online?).
E. Except as other set ou in this order, EACH party is restrained from
1. Contacting or attempting to contact the other party in person directly or through third parties
Contacting or attempting to contact the other party by mail, email or any other electron transmission.
Contacting or attempting to contact the other party by telephone, including cell phone or text message directly or through third parties.”
Third parties?..DY, Anti-TMH FB page, Roseburg Stalkers?
@Grasshopper
I saw in the docket that Bunch had filed a Motion against the SQUASHING of the depos of LE and Kaine.
Did you see it? It should be filed by now.
Sorry…if I have missed discussion of such. Been VERY busy this week and am just now trying to read up on HUNDRED’s of fascinating posts, and their great VIDs, etc.
Anyway….must have been an attempt to get forgiveness for the “oversight” by Maxine regarding her last article. She had, ooops, forgotten she was a team player…..and needed to get back on track?
@MBS, From the article you linked about Maria. Could apply to Skyline, and maybe everywhere, when the light is shinning in.
snip>
Agents were hampered by the “sheer volume” of leads, he stated, adding this observation: “I have never seen as small a city as Sycamore with such a large volume of these unusual individuals.”
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/08/us/oldest-cold-case/index.html
* corrections to my previous post:
There are *5 topics of ordered stipulations under *4 titled sections:
1. Custody & Parenting Time
2. Exclusive Use
3. Civil Order of Restraint
4. Family Abuse Prevention Act Order *
The wording under section 4 reads:
“The Order renewing the FAPA order in this case, signed by Judge Kantor on June 21, 2013, shall be dismissed upon the Judge’s signing of this Order.”
____
ps
Bunch signed Judge Kantor’s ordered stipulations July 29, 2013.
Engel signed it July 30, 2013.
Judge Kantor signed on August 1, 2013, making it effective on that agreed upon date of August 1.
vw says:
“WPG and a board member and someone involved with the school have all confirmed this.”
vw,
Did you mean to type the name of someone else, not (me) WPG?
@Grace,
I don’t think they have ruled her out for some involvement, but evidentially she did not take him. I personally am at 10% she is even involved. What is the motive not only to get rid of him, but to construct such an elaborate plan that involves the school and 490+ potential witnesses?
Thought in my mind today about SZ was is if he was opportunistic, would he even need a plan? What do you think?
OK, Blink.
I’m still reading UP. Is it a consensus. That instead of the inner parking lot….potentially deserted after 9am..and having several close accesses to young children……
That SZ parked, with a white truck, on the access road (in view of skyline blvd) in order to avoid being “delayed” by parents/volunteers/peripheral “science” mentors on his way out?
That is quite a ‘walk”. Down those steps, to the access road, etc…and to risk being seen putting a young boy in the truck by Skyline Blvd. commuters to Portland NW?
And a “white truck” ???
And a walk up around the track, or around the playground and into the east door or main door?
Am I really heariing this? Could SZ have been casing out white trucks and Kyron beforehand? Attempting to blend in. But I think you said this was a spur of the moment thing?
I still, after watching Quizzical’s vid, and going there myself, think the inner parking lot, regardless of impediment outgoing, would be the most logical.
How many volunteers would be leaving at, say 9:15? They’d leave, like Kyron’s “substitute” did….after the “touring” at 10am. The east parking lot would be free of parents “backing up”. IMOO
Of course there were parents, as in all schools, lingering, chatting, and deciding on the nearest Starbucks to discuss their kids’ science projects. But prolly not many.
Anyway….just some more thoughts. I’ll keep reading to see if there is ANY reason that 3 white trucks were on the access road.
BTW. Any intel on the SZ’s vehicle except the above “sightings’ by LE?
It just seems that there is TOO much going the way of the SZ to be a happenstance run of the mill RSO perping.
I guess this would be KH. Meaning ole smarty pants thinks he is smarter than LE, but LE has probably read the book and is waiting to throw it in the direction of Mr. Smarty Pants who Controls Everything…
But Mr. Smarty Pants stays one step ahead, and poor little Kyron really doesn’t seem that important to him. Poor little guy.
@grasshopper says: August 17, 2013 at 8:24 pm (snipped)
Blink recommended we all read The Murder Business by Mark Fuhrman to understand the media’s part in these situations. …. . He also describes the behavior of the person apt to be guilty. They love the press, are good with it, and believe they are in control of the interviewer because of their cleverness. The interviewer/host has made agreements beforehand about what questions cannot be asked, so like any reality show, it’s not all that real. Who in this case does that remind you of?! This book is helping me to understand why things are going the way they are.
Totally. Very irresponsible and mostly checkbook journalism at it’s finest.
B
erose says:
August 17, 2013 at 7:39 am
@Tiberious, Re-read your comment. My response was inappropriate. I apologize.
thank you for the thought but I was not in the least bit offended by your response. I was quite surprised to see your post. So no need to feel bad or anything, no harm was taken from your response.
sorry about the very loose paraphrase blink, copy paste here means writing it all down on scratch paper, then i have to look high and low, in every cupboard and drawer and i still cant find the dang glue stick anywhere!
a couple thoughts, if stensens origonal times were right, it would fall in line with a witness who saw a white truck on the access road shortly after 8:30.
another thought, it is totally plausable that a sz could have done this with no affiliation with tmh. imo it is also totally plausable that an accomplice of tmh could have done this, which would give him not only school layout (tmh volunteered at the school alot) but also the best escape route and the times of things like the groundskeepers routine. many people have said she wasnt smart enough to do this but if she had the right help i think she could easily. if le had some kind of daming evidence it would explain le and the fbi’s actions also, and why desiree wouldnt want the origonal o donell to testify, exposing initial evidence. jmo that exactly as a sz could do it, a associate of tmh could also have, only eisier, with inside info.
erose
If you are certain that Kyron left the building via the South entrance, the there are two choices of where the vehicle was located. The East parking lot and the soccer field road. The second choice would have been isolated by the difference in elevation between the ground surface where the set of steps is located. This would also prevent people walking to a vehicle in the East lot from seeing anything.
Someone posted that no one could have heard a scream for help from Kyron if the abduction took place at the soccer field. I think indicating that the ground surface difference would prevent it from being heard. If it were quiet, the sound would travel up and could be heard. The problem is how much noise from conversation was being generated inside the building. That would cover it up. If there is little noise, one can hear an ordinary conversation up two or more hundred feet.
I would not like being a bus driver serving that school. There is no bus loop in the East parking lot area. This makes the driver have to drive to the area of the back or North lot area and turn the bus around and then drive to the East entrance prior to letting the children exit the bus.
Rose
Thank you for the compliment about the map skills. I first began working with aerial photos fifty-six years ago. In those days, aerial photos were made by flying a fixed wing aircraft at 1,000 feet and using a large format camera (8″x 10″ or larger) to take the photos. Those were then printed on paper and fitted together much like the photos on Google Earth. One could see much more detail than we get from Google. Photos of that type would require a video monitor to have a resolution of 3,500 x 2,500 pixels. The best consumer monitors can only get half that.
The first satellite photos I examined (1969) were from an attempt by the Department of Agriculture to use photography to identify wheat rust disease patterns in the USA and elsewhere.
If you watch carefully for the Google photo credits, you will see that they still use some of the Department of Agriculture photos to build the earth views.
sam h says:
August 17, 2013 at 1:25 am
when stensen came forward his statement meant tmh couldnt have arrived and departed skyline, parking on access road, between 8:15 and 8:45, he would have gone thru the road then.
the next day when stensen said he changed his mind he didnt leave till 8:45 or 9, tmh could have parked there and left without him noticing. in a doj review, or any review by anyone outside the local area, i would think that that le “talk” with stensen would show interference or intimidation or just lousy le work.
—————————————–
Just a comment about Stensen changing his timeline. It seems to me that most people think LE somehow prompted that in order to fit TH’s timeline better. However, I have always thought there was another possibility.
I doubt if Stensen paid much attention to Skyline’s bell schedules. There was a bell at 8:45 AM to start school. There may also have been a warning bell (many schools use 5 minute warnings especially for the opening of school). Exterior school bells typically are loud in order to be heard around the play areas and over the enthusiastic yelling that goes on with games.
If Stensen gave LE his timeline, then was asked later if he heard any of the bells and he remembered that he did, he would not have been gone at 8:45 and would have used that memory to revise his timeline depending on what he remembered doing when the bell rang – for example, walking to the office to return the key, loading the trailer, standing in the office, walking back outside, seeing children go to the flowerbeds, locking the gate.
It’s possible that just remembering the ringing of one or two bells would have been enough to jog his memory and cause him to take another look at his schedule. JMO.
iirc Stensen is a county employee on contract with the school. If so, he is likely on dispatch radio as well, has a timecard sign in or swipe, etc. Perhaps he reviewed some of that data to firm up his timeline.
B
@WPG,
vw says:
“WPG and a board member and someone involved with the school have all confirmed this.”
vw,
Did you mean to type the name of someone else, not (me) WPG?
Yes, I DID. And please accept my apologies. The embarassment of putting your name in is only exceeded by the emarasssment of not remembering which contact, or researched witness I was referring to.
Mia culpa
vw