Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation EXCLUSIVE: Terri Horman Friend DeDe Spicher Breaks Her Silence After Passing Polygraph- Requests DA Clear Her Publicly
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation. ©
S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime
Lea Conner, Attorney- contributing editor, and, legal analyst
DeDe Spicher
Forward
In the days following the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron Horman from the Skyline School on June 4th, 2010, Terri Horman’s inner circle of friends, family and associates—casual acquaintances, shop clerks, and gym employees—were deluged by law enforcement.
Word spread quickly that law enforcement was after anyone who knew, might have known, or had any dealings with Terri Horman. The term used to describe law enforcement’s behavior toward potential witnesses was “bullying. ”
As the president of her former condominium owner’s association, DeDe Spicher was involved in helping the association with litigation against the condo’s builder. Spicher had a working relationship with the association’s legal team, and one afternoon, she casually mentioned the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance to the association’s legal team. Although DeDe had not been contacted by law enforcement, counsel for her condo association recommended to DeDe that, in light of what DeDe had heard about the investigation, if law enforcement were to contact her, she should agree to interview only with counsel present. She asked the attorney to sit in if that happened, to which he agreed. He quickly referred Spicher to attorney Chad Stavley.
With a search warrant in hand for electronic devices only, to which DeDe directed investigators, law enforcement proceeded to search her entire home. Multnomah County Detective Keith Krafve asked Spicher to answer some questions.
DeDe said she replied, “I would be happy to answer any and all questions you have but I would like to do so in the presence of counsel. ”
Law enforcement, in turn, began a prolonged and highly orchestrated effort to bully DeDe Spicher.
When I first introduced myself to Ms. Spicher, I offered my apologies for what she had been through and told her that in my personal opinion, she had been unfairly maligned, if not persecuted. I thanked her for her trust of me to tell her story. Ms. Spicher paid me some kind compliments on my coverage of Kyron’s case to date.
I found her extremely bright, animated and witty, with a charmingly confident , and self-deprecating sense of expression.
I also found Ms. Spicher to be very naive, even now, as to the standards, protocols and practices utilized by law enforcement.
I can’t say that I blame Ms. Spicher for trusting law enforcement so blindly. The fact is, she grew up around law enforcement but saw very little about the actual workings of an investigation. Ms. Spicher is the daughter of a well-respected—now retired—deputy with the Klamath Falls Sheriff’s Office.
At times, I found myself questioning if I would be able to exhibit the sort of resilience this woman has. Probably not.
I found DeDe Spicher to be unwavering as to her account of events on June 4th, 2010, and ensuing dates.
It was only a few weeks ago, during a meeting with MCSO detectives Mark Herron and Keith Krafve , investigators unofficially cleared DeDe Spicher of any involvement in Kyron’s disappearance or of having any knowledge of anyone elses. She is hopeful that Multnomah County District Attorney Rod Underhill will issue a public statement from his office clearing her officially.
To date, neither the Multnomah County Sheriffs Office nor the DA’s office has publicly declared any persons cleared in the active investigation.
DeDe is adamant that she was not involved, nor did she ever see anything that led her to believe Terri Horman was involved.
DeDe spoke freely and without hesitation as to the relentless harassment she experienced at the hands of law enforcement.
However, DeDe is adamant that she does not want this piece to express any sort of “pity DeDe” perspective. She does not want anyone to feel sorry for her.
DeDe hopes that by speaking publicly, the public’s curiosity will be satisfied, and the focus of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance can return to an actual investigation.
This is her story.
In Her Own Words
“. . . On a positive note, I have met some really nice people out of all this, so that’s how I choose to look at it. I can’t control other people’s actions or opinions about me…”
“I did not know anything’ I never knew anything ;and I could not get them (law enforcement) to believe me for over three years. ”
“. . . Since the investigation started, I believe they were able to narrow the time I was supposedly missing [never was, never left the property] but they never shared that with me and have not to this day. . ”
“. . . There was no communication between Terri and I since her birthday party in March [2010], and we had only been in touch the December before that [in 2009]. Terri and I were not best buds. I think that was something investigators were really hung up on. They could not understand that I would rush to someone’s aid that on the surface was a more casual friend. They saw that as behavior of someone that had something to hide, or as a motive of some kind…”
What investigators believed that motive was, they certainly never shared with DeDe Spicher.
No Reid School Alum
Investigators pummeled DeDe from the very start: You were missing at the same time that we can’t pin down Terri Horman’s whereabouts. Why did Terri pick you up? Did someone else pick you up and bring you back? We know you left the property, we have proof.
These are questions demanded from DeDe Spicher over and over again, for three straight years. No matter what she did to try to accommodate law enforcement–and she and her attorney Chad Stavely went through extraordinary means by any standards to assist law enforcement–investigators refused to believe she had no knowledge of the circumstances of Kyron’s disappearance. Until now.
DeDe Spicher’s story has never wavered.
DeDe arrived at her job at Westwind Farm Studio–a sprawling and lush forty-plus acre property scheduled to be on the Garden Conservatory Tour the next day. She parked at the main house, left her cell phone which was turned on, and her lunch cooler in her Ford Explorer.
She went inside the main house to check in for her assignment, and for the first time since working there, she was invited to lunch with the others at the house. There was no time set. The invitation was open-ended and she believed based on the timing of her project completions at the opposite end of the property. This was Spicher’s customary daily routine. Her duties in preparation for the garden tour took her to the end of the grounds for the bulk of the morning, near the road. Where she was working, bent over in tall grasses and vegetation is not visible from the main house.
Spicher was not wearing a watch nor carrying her cell phone, and headed to the house for lunch after completing work on one section of the property. When she arrived, she was told that Ms. Hockensmith tried calling DeDe’s name outside when everyone was ready for lunch. When DeDe did not respond and could not be seen from the main house, Ms. Hockensmith also called DeDe’s cell phone. Spicher said she apologized and explained her project’s location and status, and then sat down to eat. DeDe resumed her work day to completion. Her cell phone records confirm this account.
On one occasion, at the request of law enforcement , Spicher agreed to walk the property and demonstrate her activities that day. During one reenactment,, a female investigator attempted to mimic Hockensmith’s “lunch call” while Spicher was out near the property line. Spicher heard the investigator’s call.
“I heard that person that day. They never told me where she was standing, I just know I could not see her which is easy to do if you saw the grounds. I don’t know why I never heard the property owner that day except to say I try to be very mindful when I am working, and gardening is a love of mine I tend to immerse in. It was the first time I was invited to lunch and was looking forward to sharing the meal on break. Had I heard her, I would have stopped immediately and headed in. It was a nice treat. ”
It sounded like an innocent explanation. I asked DeDe why investigators did not believe her.
She responded: I was repeatedly questioned, hounded,my home and belongings were taken and searched for some time. Law enforcement kept telling me in interviews I agreed to participate in, by the way, that the only way to clear myself was to take a polygraph, which my attorney advised me not to. Since I had been told by Terri that she was told she failed when she was adamant that she was being truthful, I had no desire to be set up like that. I do not know to this day if Terri actually failed any polygraphs or law enforcement just told her they did. I know that once she told me that [investigators claimed she failed her polygraph], my advice to her was that she should not speak to anyone without an attorney, but she continued to ignore it, I think for a few more days. As I recall, I don’t think I was the only person or friend telling her that.
Editors Note: blinkoncrime.com has been able to confirm through an independent source which does not wish to be identified publicly, that Terri Horman was referred to her criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze via a family friend and attorney located in Bend, Oregon. Subsequently, Kaine Horman requested a search of the Bend attorney’s property, and indicated that Kyron may have gone there.
It was either completely naive or bold for Spicher to submit to a polygraph under those conditions. She was, by her own account, telling the truth, and then being punished for it.
However, investigators were adamant at “proving” a theory that Spicher left the Westwind Farm. I asked, “Considering there is absolutely no communication between you and anyone else, and you are working on a 40-acre farm on this day, wouldn’t it be true that the theory had to be that. . . ? ”
Spicher interrupted: Yes, that Terri swung by and picked me up for some reason, or some other unknown person. ”
The problem with that theory is that it required another person who was not at the farm to know where Spicher was working that day come meet her, without being seen by anyone else, and without communication with anyone else.
Spicher: “On several occasions,I reminded investigators that there was a witness to where I was working on that property on June 4th 2010, which I surmise would complete whatever timeline holes they thought I had. This has never been released publicly, but there was also an artisan show/market sale on the property the next day. There were a few vendors in and out of the property that day, but I remembered one specifically while I was working near the road that morning. I was there when he dropped off his pots/pottery and whatever else he had to show or sell. ”
The artist/driver who delivered his pottery was in his late twenties to early thirties and drove a red pick up. .
Stoy: So law enforcement knew that there was a witness from day one, that could corroborate your logistics on the property and approximate timing, is that correct?
Spicher: YES!I did not know the man’s name or the name of his creations or anything, and when I asked law enforcement for the information to provide my attorney they refused to even say if they spoke to him, or if they had, if they were now satisfied I was where I said I was and at what time. They declined to provide it to my attorney as well, and by that time Ms. Hockensmith had an attorney as well so I was not permitted to just call and ask her. I even went to the Saturday market a few times to see if I could locate him myself.
Stoy: Why did Ms. Hockensmith need an attorney if you know?
Spicher: I assume it was because all kinds of people were showing up at her property and pounding on the gates, etc. She was hounded by the media for weeks, and all because she gave me a job. I was horrified for her. All because of me.
Stoy: Was there any connection between Hockensmith and the Hormans?
Spicher: Not that I am aware of, they were on completely different socio-economic levels and their kids went to a French American School, not Skyline. I would not even know where they would bump into each other.
Stoy: Has anyone ever mentioned to you whether Hockensmith hired Rudy Sanchez at any time?
Spicher: No. Did she?
Stoy: I am going to need to check my archives on that one, I thought so but I could be confusing her with a different property owner.
(Editors Note: Hockensmith’s friend and fellow farm-owner Jean Ann Von Krevelen did hire RS Landscaping Maintenence. DeDe Spicher was interning with Ms. Von Krevelen, and was referred to Maryellen Hockensmith to work on her property. It was not to be a paid position as Ms. Spicher was willing to ‘work for her sweat” to learn all she could at the time. Spicher said she has never met Rodolpho (Rudy) Sanchez nor has she observed him on either property. )
Frink or Fink- You Decide
So how does a casual friend such as Spicher become elevated to Terri Horman’s lifeline to the outside world, only to turn into the number two suspect in a de facto criminal investigation of Terri Horman?
Frink-in’ thinkin’.
Norman W. Frink, longtime chief deputy district attorney for Multnomah County, was former District Attorney Mike Schrunk’s right hand man. While no longer in office and the DA assignments to Kyron’s investigations are new,there are strong reverbations from the previous administration.
Stoy: You mentioned that law enforcement accused you of wasting their resources and distracting the investigation. In what way did they mean or how did they explain that to you?
Spicher: First it was Chief ADA Norm Frink who said I was wasting their time and resources by not “cooperating,” by which he meant “take their poly[graph]. ” That was just a couple of days before news first broke about my “involvement,” and was all part of his blackmailing me.
Stoy: How do you mean blackmailing you,the DA? Frink?
Spicher: Yes. We were in a meeting/interview and. .
Stoy: Was your attorney present?
Spicher: Yes. Sitting right there. Frink said that we do not think you had anything to do with this, but we do think you have information about Terri Horman’s involvement, and we do think she is involved. Either you take our polygraph, or provide the information we believe you have, or, I don’t care, we will tell the family that we do think you’re involved.
Stoy: What was your response?
Spicher: I said that I understood the need for them to do what they had to do, but that I was not going to tell them something that was not true. I did not really expect them to say something they knew to be false. They did. The next day, my name was released to the press by Desiree Young and Kaine Horman. It was a statement about me not cooperating and I think advising others not to or words to that effect.
Stoy: I am not sure I even know how to respond to that, or if I should during the interview. For me, that is tantamount to telling you that were looking at facing an indictment of your own. I think a reasonable conclusion by someone in your position would have been that you could expect to be arrested for something they knew you did not do, regardless of what it was, to further a case that they seemingly had no evidence in. Again, I find you courageous to have ever had another meeting with any law enforcement officer or DA in this case. I think it would have been very, very easy to say, “Eff this. They are not going to find Kyron with anything I have to offer because I do not know anything, and they are not going to find him by putting words in my mouth against anyone else. I need to protect myself. ” You never did that. Courageous.
Spicher: Thank you, but I really don’t feel courageous. To me courage is when one does something for which they have a great deal of fear. Mostly, I haven’t been afraid, which is what pissed law enforcement off from the very beginning. The one time I was afraid was after the ADA tried to blackmail me and I began to realize I might have to live in a world where the truth didn’t matter. I was not courageous at all in facing that fear.
Stoy: I am not an attorney but based on what you are telling me I don’t see how that is construed as anything but blackmail. He unilaterally gave you 2 choices. Both of which were in contradiction to your 5th amendment rights considering he was ready to make a public criminal allegation about you- does not matter to whom it was.
On the following day, July 22, 2010 Norm Frink made good on his threat to DeDe Spicher.
From The Oregonian, Maxine Bernstein
In a statement late tonight, Kaine Horman and Kyron’s mother, Desiree Young, and Desiree’s husband, Tony Young, said they had been briefed by law enforcement and believe Spicher is hampering the investigation. They implored her to cooperate.
“She has not only been in close communication with Terri but has been providing Terri with support and advice that is not in the best interests of our son,” the statement said. “Additional information provided shows that she is refusing to cooperate with law enforcement, she is also going as far as to suggest to others that may have information regarding Kyron’s disappearance, not to cooperate as well. ”
In one fell swoop DeDe Spicher was the Richard Jewell of Portland, courtesy of Norm Frink.
Nothing grand about the grand jury
Dede Spicher was called before the first grand jury in July 2010. She was never asked any questions. I asked her if she had any information on that grand juries status and whether or not a true bill was sought, sought and denied, suspended, or dismissed.
Spicher: I don’t know any of that, but I believe that it was an election year and it was all DA strategy. I think they called me to scare Terri Horman and maybe Rudy Sanchez.
Stoy: Why do you say Rudy Sanchez? He testified as well, so that has a layer of at least limited use immunity and for all we know he had a separate agreement for what is called transactional immunity. I have no information on that though, he has never responded to my requests for interview.
Spicher: I don’t know, I just know that he is who Terri felt was involved. His name never came up until Terri was asked who had been on the property that was not a friend or relative.
DeDe was again subpoenad to appear before the grand jury on July 10, 2013. She felt that it was her impression that law enforcement and the DA were running out of time due to the civil suit and divorce case, and she read that the grand jury was extended for 6 months previously and about to expire. At the time, the civil case Desiree Young filed against Terri Horman and has since withdrawn was about to resume. A stay had been granted in November 2012, a month before a scheduled hearing to compel further deposition of Spicher in that matter.
DeDe assumed that what she did not know might, potentially, help the investigation by potentially shifting focus away from red herrings as to her knowledge of events. The problem now for Spicher was that the prosecutor had already demonstrated to her that it was not above using almost any means or tactics, and at the time she had concerns that even her own lawyer believed she was telling the truth. Stavley advised her to tell the truth, tell everything she knew. She did, repeatedly.
Stoy: So, you get a subpoena once again to appear before the grand jury. Detectives are telling you to your face they do not believe you. The prosecutor [Frink] has demonstrated he does not believe you. According to what you have shared with me so far, you question if your own attorney believes you. How lonely of a place was that? I think most people would have been completely terrified. How did you cope with your fear?
Spicher: You know I was terrified. It seemed like every time law enforcement would ask me for something, I would provide it, and it was like a fresh new hell each time. It was not going away. I could not even read about the case or discuss it with anyone other than my parents because it was absolutely clear to me that the public now believed I was the obstacle to either solving the case or arresting Terri to solve the case and/or find Kyron and I knew that to be false. The truth did not matter to anyone. I was told this so often I began to even question myself. I won’t forget a conversation I had with a detective about whether or not I was unconsciously suppressing information I did not know I had. I mean, imagine my response to that. I said, well if I am suppressing something, then I think that means I have to wait for it to enter my conscious by way of my subconscious and if and when it does, I would certainly let you know.
Stoy: So what were they suggesting? Hypnosis?
Spicher: No. Although I am not sure I would not have preferred that. My attorney had advised against taking a polygraph. I believed Terri back in June 2010 when she said she was telling the truth and they told her that the lie detector test was saying she was lying and I also knew that even if I agreed to it, that law enforcement was under no obligation to tell me if I passed or failed and even if they did tell me, that I COULD trust that information to be correct. For me, it was not going to be an end to this because I knew that I had been telling the truth and that was not what anyone wanted to hear so what was verifying that going to get me? It was more like the potential beginning of a fresh new hell.
DeDe absolutely believed that her impending grand jury appearance was designed to result in her facing some sort of charge for something that investigators believed would lead her to ultimately implicate Terri Horman in Kyron’s disappearance. In fact, she was told that what was an honest tax mistake/error on her part after she ended up being paid a nominal amount by Mrs. Hockensmith but never received a 1099, could end up placing her in hot water. The Capone tactic for a woman that took the job with the understanding that it was not a paid endeavor and when Ms. Hockensmith told Spicher she wanted to compensate her she declined. Hockensmith insisted.
On this basis, DeDe was advised to and agreed to an immunity deal. The terms of which are under seal and Spicher nixed discussing citing a verbal agreement she made until such time as it is unsealed.
A source inside the investigation who does not wish to be identified as they are not authorized to speak publicly on the case- has confirmed that Spicher’s agreement includes provisions that she continue to cooperate with law enforcement as needed, be available to testify in any proceedings, and to take a polygraph.
Spicher declined to say to whom she committed to not discuss the agreement but that it also included neither party discussing that she had testified before the grand jury.
It would appear that Ms. Spicher is the only one keeping up her end of the bargain as Attorney Rosenthal announced publicly that DeDe Spicher had testified- a fact that to this day she has no idea how he came by that information.
Spicher appeared before the grand jury for five and a half hours on July 10, 2013.
Because grand jury proceedings are secret, and the DA, grand jurors, and state court personnel are barred from discussing the goings on, the only person who can speak to a witness’ testimony is the witness. In this case, the grand jury witness is DeDe Spicher.
Stoy: So before we get into the particulars, could you sum up those hours in the room at all- would you compare it to the civil deposition you endured by Desiree Young’s attorney Mr. Rosenthal?
Spicher: (laughs) No. It was far more comprehensive. I am referring to the civil deposition.
Stoy: When asked about your weight, you were far more reserved and eloquent than I would have been. . . . If someone asked me my weight at a deposition, I would have said I did not know but would be glad to sit on him and let him guess.
Spicher: I know, right? Not me, I am direct, I had nothing to hide, and I was not intimidated in the least.
Stoy: So without telling me what questions you were asked specifically, what would you characterize as your testimony ?
Spicher: They were obsessed with my sexuality. Was I a lesbian,what were my thoughts on homosexuals: Did I ever have a threesome with anyone, with Kaine and Terri, etc. I was thinking if I were a juror, I would be like, what does this have to do with anything? I answered every question respectfully and honestly but my takeaway is that some folks still have a hard time believing that I would rush to a friend’s aid if we had not been in contact, or particularly close in the first place. I responded that when your friend texts “I need you now,” I got in my car and headed over there. There was never a question in my mind. Even if I knew that everything that happened to me over the last 3 years would happen all over again, I would do the same thing today. That’s what friends do. I also testified when it was clear that sentiment was not shared by some, that I certainly was hopeful that they never needed a friend “immediately”.
Because of the travel time ,Spicher requested that since investigators wanted to give her the polygraph in Portland, that they schedule it for the day after the grand jury. It was easier for her to extend her time in Portland than to have to return again. They agreed.
Upon arrival, although Spicher was prepared for, and extended her visit to take the polygraph as committed, she was told that they had decided that because she was on the stand for such a grueling afternoon the day before that they never want to give anyone a polygraph after such an experience- as it might skew the results. She made a mental note that they had told her previously that one’s emotional state and exhaustion level are taken into consideration in a polygraph. In other words, while investigators were telling her Terri Horman previously failed her polygraphs, and she asked them if that could have been due to the fact that she went through hours and hours of interviews just prior to the exams, investigators now had a different story.
Herron Hamster Wheel
Mark Herron and Keith Krafve began the interview the same exact way they had for years.
“We still can’t seem to put together the right timeline from when you were at the property. ” And on again it went. Spicher continued the interview as she had agreed to, but informed them that if this was her time use that to perform the polygraph they would need to travel to Klamath Falls on their own dime.
They did just that. DeDe Spicher passed the polygraph administered by the same Gresham sheriff’s deputy who administered the polygraph exam to Terri Horman. Spicher says in particular, Mark Herron was jubilant. She said it was like a party atmosphere. Spicher was verklempt:
‘Well, I am happy that you are happy, I guess, but the thing is, I have been telling you the same thing for three years so I guess I am just happy you’re happy ”
Herron went on to blame Spicher for the thousands of hours, and dollars that her refusal to take a polygraph cost the investigation. Then, they asked to speak to Spicher’s attorney privately, outside of her presence. She agreed.
After a few minutes*, they called Spicher back in and asked for her permission to meet with her privately without her attorney. Spicher and her attorney agreed.
Krafve starts by telling her: We are so glad you are on the team finally. This is such a big step in this case and you are really one of us.
Then, the hook.
We asked to speak to you without (your attorney) because we would like you to participate in a sting against Terri. We can’t ask you in front of counsel, and you cannot tell him what we said because he will then be obligated to make some calls as a member of the bar and all that.
Spicher asks if she can at least discuss it with her dad, a retired deputy with the Klamath Falls Sheriff’s Office. Herron said she could, but that he could not discuss it with her attorney, either.
Spicher told them it was 10: 00 PM , and reminded them that she has not had any contact with Terri since July 2010. Spicher told investigators that she was not comfortable with the proposal and would definitely need to sleep on it. They told her they would follow up with her.
Stavley, presumably uncomfortable with law enforcement’s request to meet with this client without him, asked Spicher to tell him what the meeting was about. She told her attorney that it was something they told her she could not tell him and that she wanted to get out of there and discuss it later. Stavley said he was not at all comfortable with that arrangement, and within hours Spicher told him that law enforcement wanted her to participate in a sting operation.
It was not until last week that Detective Krafve contacted Spicher directly to follow up on their request for DeDe Spicher to participate in a surreptitiously recorded sting where she was to call Terri Horman, and at the direction of law enforcement, read from a prepared agenda to include coaching by them.
Spicher declined.
* Edit to reflect changing the word twenty to “a few” for accuracy. 9/11/13 4:43 PM EST
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Mom3.0 says:
September 5, 2013 at 1:29 am
————-
IMO
Once again we are hearing rumors along with perceived motives for peoples actions.
DeDe did speak to LE but she refused to incriminate a friend with false information that LE wanted to hear( this was even in the People magazine article). What do you do when LE refuses to accept your truth and starts trying to intimidate with possible trumped up conviction?
(get a lawyer and shut up)
It seems to me that I remember that LE even tried to scare TMH’s parents with a fake investigation/story about a garage fire at their home 20 years earlier.
We should all be frightened by the lengths that our LE will go to in order to be right. I actually think LE hampered this investigation because people were afraid to come forward with any information that suggested that Terri was innocent for fear of be pursued and blackmailed by law enforcement.
I think we need to demand more transparency in the tactics of our law enforcement officials. Since they have maintained a veil of Secrecy about their “Investigative technics” in this case we have no idea of how far they are willing to go in trampling individual rights (that we have under the constitution) to produce results that will justify their accusations.
IMO
Since watching/reading public opinion about this case I believe that there are some people who are willing to forgo the civil rights granted to us by the constitution in order to achieve some sort of moral satisfaction regarding this case.
This is scary
You only need to look to the Mid East to see how difficult it is to get these rights back after we have given them up.
Agreed, except if you notice, it is not their individual rights being compromised, it is someone elses.
B
on reflection, what better way to silence WW, when wife had AG political ambitions (Gov next? or Fed bench?), than to teflon one’s investigatory agency by rotating to detective-in-charge of Kyron’s case an approximately decade-long river patrol/atv trainor/SAR co-coordinator, with no detective training or experience known to the public, who happens to be Union Pres and has been a long-term local Union exec & rep?
As I understand it, in Mult County in particular, public unions are the key to election victories. Nor is it surprising the primary DA employee on the case was/is uber connected to Kitzhaber and has a powerful legislator Dad.
Big question is how mcso got this case when PPB had jurisdiction.
Part 2 would sure help for context.
The mere fact that LE has never acknowledged the Matthews/SZ interchange tells me that these LE officials are not really as interested in finding out what happened to Kyron as they are in protecting their own jobs. They will stay with the TMH did it story til hell freezes over OR til someone powerful in Portland, with a sense of ethical righteousness begins airing the truth.
I can forgive the first investigators their early focus on TMH, given the overt vitriol of the Youngs towards her. But a well trained detective force should have realized the underlying familial issues and remained open minded in the pursuit of the real perpetrator who remains a mystery to this day.
This case is a disgrace and the people of the Skyline community, indeed entire MC should be up in arms about it. Or is it easier to simply hide behind the wicked stepmother scenario? Someone took little Kyron and if statistics are remotely accurate, he did it before and after. They owe it to his next victim to do everything humanly possible to catch this monster and save the next child.
That starts with a clean sweep of this incompetent sheriff’s and DA’s offices. They are a disgrace to hardworking LE officers everywhere.
I was very conflicted about the issue of openly criticsizing le in a case. It is painful for me on many levels, the least of which is that I want to support positive change and transparency. One can’t do that in a vacuum.
AND
We have to remember that if using tactics like they did is customary, REGARDLESS of who is ultimately responsible, it could compromise the prosecution of the correct offender and possibly the ability to find Kyron. It is beyond me how these hater folks appear to be oblivious to that notion.
B
For those referring to past articles/blogs on what DDS said…look at the articles being published currently; they too are not getting the facts correctly even after Blink’s latest story. How can anyone reference what was said in various stories and publications since those news stories were based on information from LE or the family’s beliefs. Uggg.
Hey MSCO…Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results… It is not getting you anywhere closer to finding little Kyron or who did this to him. Its time to find a new tree to bark up…
I am truly sorry DeeDee for what you have been through as well as any ill thoughts I have had due to the information provided in the news.
I pray for all of those affected by this insanity.
Quite a piece. I am confident in Ms B and her ability to recognize deceit or the flying feathers left behind. The piece is extremely revealing and per Ms B, incomplete. Part two to follow and that should reveal even more.
That being said mom3 and wpg bring important questions to the table. And if I may surmise the most important one is…how has Ms Spicher helped find Kyron? Until his whereabouts are revealed no one is above reproach. Poor me and mea culpa’s notwithstanding.
Humbly submitted Ms B
imo
Jeff D- I agree with all of you in that regard. But I think the point that maybe perhaps I did not underscore well in the piece is that in the face of all that was being done, that LE blatantly told her repeatedly they DID NOT believe her, she CONTINUED to meet with them, provide anything they asked her for the sole reason that she wanted to be helpful in her efforts to contribute to the resolution of the case.
I would like to think I had the testicular fortitude to do the same after the parents of the little boy at the heart of all this told the world I was doing the opposite, but I honestly do not know if I would have.
Spicher did not balk at the scrutiny, she would have preferred it was done properly and within the boundaries of her civil rights of course. By speaking out finally, while she is interested in having her name cleared publicly, and again, I do not blame her and I further encourage her, but it is her intention that doing do refocuses the investigation to produce
In my mind, I see that as doing everything she ever could to this day. I daresay I am somewhat protective of her at this stage for 2 reasons.
1. Because I think she was treated horribly, and that is a mild understatement I will let the facts of the piece support.
2. I want the light shed on this to prevent this from happening to any other folks in this case which in my view can and has hampered this investigation.
Humbly submitted right back
B
wpg says:
September 4, 2013 at 5:22 pm
Compassion for Kyron should mean compassion for Desiree Young, imo.
Respectfully, wpg…I share your compassion for DY and I also have the utmost compassion for Terri Moulton Horman. From all accounts, she was the primary caregiver for Kyron from an early age. Certainly she was for all of his school years. She was the one who helped him with homework, saw to his doctor’s visits, attended his school functions, took him trick or treating, filled hi Christmas stockings and helped him dye Easter eggs…. He was a daily part of her life,not DY’s. Imagine being her now.
I am having a hard time understanding why so many on the news site’s comments area dismiss the truth when told in such an open eloquent way??? Thank you again Ms. Spicher for telling your side of the story.
An old piece to the puzzle I found again this morning. All the pieces of DeDe’s story fit. IMO.
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/jasonw.pdf
==========
Everyone is demanding Terri talk, but what they really want is for her to confess to this crime. Anything else will be disputed as lies…even if she passes a poly. IMO.
Terri did cooperate and told what she knew, but since it was not what they wanted to hear, LE likely pressured her in the same manner they did DeDe. She went against the advice of friends to lawyer up for weeks. For those who say Terri should not have counsel if she is innocent are not putting themselves in her shoes. She is doing exactly what she should be doing, it’s her constitutional right.
Also a snippit from: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/07/kyron_hormans_mother_to_drop_c.html
Snipped:
Bunch took issue with implications by Young and her attorney that Terri Horman’s silence means anything beyond that she’s asserting her constitutional rights.
“The assumption that someone who asserts his or her constitutional rights is guilty, is contrary to our system of government,’’ Bunch said.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
I would agree, wpg, that there is no new information here about the facts of the disappearnace. That IS the story. DD has said from the beginning that she was at the property the whole time, that her cell and watch were in the car and that she had nothing to do with the disappearance.
DDs allegations about LE are new information. If they are true, it is very discouraging news for ALL of us (mildly put). If they are not true, it does not change any information relating to the disappearance of Ky.
And I just have to ask this … TH is “unaccounted” for from 10-11:30. DD is “unaccounted” for from 11:30-1. LE wants to talk to DD because she and TH were missing AT THE SAME TIME. This info was not from TH or DD, that was from early news reports of their days. SERIOUSLY? That is the critical thinking exhibited by this LE? Sorry but that bit has bothered me for a long time
They won’t tell you this, but the truth is LE already knew ( after a few weeks) that it was not true that the timing did not match or matched whereby either DDS or TH were ever in the same area anyway.
B
This piece brings to light the very real danger faced by innocent people from LE. Most LE officers are honest decent people who play by the rules, but there are a number of LE officers whose goal is to “win”, not necessarily find the truth.
DDS wisely refused to take a polygraph early on. Contrary to common belief, passing a polygraph will not clear a person of a crime, and a false positive study, polygraphy is not 100% accurate, can bring the full force of the state upon an innocent individual leading to public condemnation and possibly bankruptcy. There was a case about 2 years ago covered by BOC where the two parents was announced to have FAILED a polygraph, but later cleared of any involvement when the real culprit was apprehended. In the meantime, these two innocent distraught parents were the target of many hateful posts on many blogs and message boards.
This piece, unfortunately, brings us no closer to finding Kyron. It appears that DDS knows nothing about his disappearance.
It is time, however, for many of us to step a few steps back, takes a few deep breaths, and reassess our views on this case. Many people have become emotionally involved with this case and developed strong biases and prejudices. There are people with an intense hatred of DDS, the overwhelming majority of whom have never met her. This hatred has persisted for years despite the fact that there is no evidence of her involvement. The only “evidence” of her guilt is KH and his call-out in the press. Apparently to him, informing people of their constitutional rights is interfering with an investigation. Maybe KH was an innocent tool manipulated by LE, so I will withhold judgment.
We all need to remember that the people we discuss online are real people, not fictional characters, and that we only have incomplete information about them. It is far too easy create our own scenarios and become emotionally attached to them, and try to hold on to our own narratives even when new evidence argues against them.
I have been guilty of this, and have at times made a few negative comments about individuals that I have later regretted.
Unless we know TY, KH, TMH, DDS or any of the others we talk about, it is not prudent to hate these people, demonize (or lionize) them, or judge them based on limited information from the media. Yes it is perfectly to hate those convicted of crimes, or shown to be guilty by available evidence such as Casey Anthony, Josh Powell, or “sketch”. For all others, we need to remind ourselves that evidence may be revealed that completely changes our understanding of a case.
BEST POST EVER
B
I have a couple of questions … maybe there is an answer and maybe just speculation
Q1: I don’t understand why was Herron happy about the poly results. I mean she passed the poly which “proved” that she was not lying when she said that she had nothing to do with it and did not know anything about it. How does that move forward in finding Ky (which is, I guess, my opinion of the only thing that should make them happy right now)? Was he happy because then he had a fresh lure?
Respectfully, I am just going to come right out and say it. Herron has no experience in a case like this and has no business in it. None. He may be super duper as a union rep and he may have been a stellar river patrol person. According to DY, they are pretty tight as well.
How is any of that explainable in a case of a missing child? I will tell you- it only explainable if you were right anyway after effing up every other which way, lying or ommitting to parents and they still believe you. However, clearly that is not the case.
Q2: LE asked her to participate in the sting but she couldn’t tell her lawyer because “he would be obligated to make some calls.” Who would he be obligated to call / what would he be obligated to divulge and why?
There is simply no reasonable and/or lawful explanation for that behavior.
B
Blink – I’m curious on your thoughts of the murder-for-hire plot. If you’ve answered this on other threads, I apologize. However, I think it’s interesting now that LE intimidation is at the heart of the conversation.
Do you think it was something made up by LE in order to go through with the original sting? Do you think it’s possible that that RS made it up in order to LE off his back because he was the only ‘non – friend/family’ that was on the property?
I don’t believe the murder-for-hire plot was ever true. I believe that TH would have been charged w/something already if it were…
What I think….
On that issue, I will get to that or if you would so kind to repeat the question if I don’t in the continuation.
B
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/09/kyron_horman_case_dede_spicher.html#incart_river
I thought it was an excellent summary until my eye landed at major fact error no. 1.
at least the hapless inaccurate copiest, and the fact checker, are unnamed. Don’t they remember she lived at the Horman home for a bit post-Kiara’s abduction?
……and hasn’t spoken to Kyron’s stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman, since March 2010….”
I saw that, lol.
B
Rose
I remember all that came out regarding the Texas mess of the 1950′s and early 1960′s. It involved a lot of the Texas organizations of Law and beyond.
If I had known about the connections to the appointed AG, I would not have used that as a way to correct the situation. This information makes it more difficult to get the needed actions taken.
The people of the county will need to organize to attack this very significant problem. They will also need to find some media reporters who are willing to do the story in as truthful accurate manner as possible.
@Dale. Do we know she stormed out? or terminated & walked?
In her shoes I’d do that, as a distraught stepmother who was more than aware I
was the focus of the investigation, not from a sense I was “failing” again.
(And she never had that sense the first time, she was merely
told that tho she avowed she’d told the truth.) But more like from repeat questions
such as DeDe’s on kinky sex, say how many times a week to you go to horse farm
to have it on with Trigger. That is, deliberately demeaning, angering questions which
these often complained about deputies (Reisor, O’Donnell) were than capable of. BTW
when it came time for Kafvre to chose a partner, he reached out to rotate to detective unit
someone with no training & experience at that job. Maybe he knew him from his Union member
defense work when complaints were received from public. Maybe he’d
even defended Kafvre in an inquiry. Anyway he chose someone who’d keep hus
mouth shut and even delightedly join in on unConstitutional tactics apparently. My opinion
only, resting on DDS interview above.
I would only add this- even then, whatever the facts are or were, TH did NOT hire counsel and returned unrepresented and never invoked her right until she was served the RO. That means she returned, and according to Kaine completed a 3rd exam, which to be clear, we are only going on what was mentioned by Kaine Horman, which is what we presume LE shared with him. In between the first poly and interviews and the second, DeDe told her while sitting in Kyron’s room, btw, that if LE was openly accusing her she should hire a lawyer and her response was that she had nothing to hide.
Terri hired a lawyer after she knew attempts were being made to set her up in which her spouse was a participant- period. Anyone who would not do the same is a ninny. IMo.
B
Rose says:
September 5, 2013 at 2:17 am
… DDS’ response to a text from her acquaintance was typical of the women in my church singles group–the oldies but goodies (I married at 35). We were naive, warmhearted, & responded to needy people (all too often, needy men). And keep in mind, at issue was a distraught person whose stepson just suffered horrific abduction, whose husband had left her, whose daughter was taken.
_____
I agree that a single woman is more likely to jump to the aid of another person to the degree that Dede did with Terri than a married woman with children. She had the time and ability to help her casual friend so she did.
Where I get hung up is the strange texting that was going on between Cook and Terri while Dede was staying at the Horman household. Terri’s son is missing and the two ladies are giggling over sexts with a virtual stranger. While I believe the texting was a set up I also believe that what was made public was an actual conversation that took place and it just makes me wonder in what frame of mind were these ladies. If a young family member, whom I had raised, went missing for weeks I cannot fathom having a sleepover with a friend and giggling over nutterbutters and undies. Add that her husband has left with their daughter and I am confused by this behavior on the part of both women. JMO and not meant to offend anyone.
Greetings Blink and Co.!
I’ve been reading but not posting for months, bravo on the work being done here, as always. Thank you for your tenacity and, quite frankly, “cajones”, Blink. You have never waivered or given up on this case, dogged in your determination to bring little Kyron home.
I still cry about Kyron almost daily, hence I’ve had to remove myself a bit for my own good. I pray that the work being done here, and all the good people that want to find Kyron will help resolve this case.
I am still beyond furious that these LE and DA people are so busy having a pecker contest that they cannot admit they screwed up and let someone else take the reins. All of the kids in our area are in danger, and God knows where else this SZ has been or is going. It just makes me sick.
Love and prayers for Kyron and his family, may the good Lord light the way to bring him home.
@Blink. I don’t think some readers (at least OLive readers)
understand the concept of immunity agreement as it relates to
g j testimony. Quick summary paragraph?
Not legal advice. And I can only be general, the immunity agreement is sealed and since I have not personally seen the protection order allowing same, ya know..
So I am going go from the book without my interpretations:
Transactional and Use Immunity:
Use immunity
Definition
: immunity granted to a witness in a criminal case that prevents the use of the witness’s compelled testimony against that witness in a criminal prosecution
Transactional and use immunity are granted to preserve the constitutional protection against self-incrimination. The states grant either form of this immunity, while the federal government grants only use immunity. A witness with use immunity may still be prosecuted, but only based on evidence not gathered from the protected testimony.
2 : a usu. statutory prohibition that excludes specific documents or information from discovery
B
Blink did you have a chance to ask DeDe if she knew or had ever heard about DAD before Kyron went missing?
SHe did not
B
Mom3.0 says:
September 5, 2013 at 1:29 am
Cont Part 2
“Was that De DE who gave the People magazine interview? For if it was then for goodness sake De De didnt seem to need a lawyer to give that interview and it seems it contradicts some of what she has told Blink”
——————————————————————-
FYI
From People magazine 8/18/2010
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20413793,00.html
Hello: Have followed this case from the beginning. I have read this new article three times and I just seem to be missing something. Don’t know if I am overlooking it or what. But what was the text all about from Terri to DeDe that said “I need you now”. When did that happen? Did DeDe go? What was the urgent issue?
Sent when TH was served the RO. Yes, she went immediately.
B
Dale says:
September 5, 2013 at 4:30 am
Now, please explain the contradictions that DeDe made, about being a casual friend to stating being close friends??? Which is it???
———–
I think DeDe had known Terri for a long time. She visited the Horman’s when they lived in Aloha and was tasked by Kaine to arrange Terri’s B-Day party that says to me DeDe was good friend of Terri’s and although she had not recently spent much time with Terri she was always someone Terri could call on in a crisis. When DeDe learned Kyron was missing I believe she communicated to Terri that she would be available to help if her assistance was needed.
When DeDe says she was not a close friend of Terri’s I think she meant that although she was a good friend of Terri’s she did not see her every day or even every week on a regular basis. I have relatives that I would not say are close to me who I am sure would respond with help for me if it was needed.
If your beliefs about DeDe rest whether or not a statement made by DeDe can be word smithed by you to reveal some nefarious plot by DeDE to conceal her friendship with Terri then There is probably no use in responding to any of your comments anyway. But here goes.
DeDe told LE she never left the farm on june 4 a lie detector test has borne that out. That was the main accusation made against DeDe what caused many to cling to the opinion DeDe had something to do with this case.
Now that these same people know that DeDe was not directly involved in Kyron disappearing they need to invent a new accusation so they can continue on their mission of hate filled rhetoric and still feel good about themselves after of all of the disgusting comments they have made about DeDe in the past 3 years.
So I guess picking through everything DeDe has ever said about this case and twisting her word to create meanings that back up their beliefs is the word of the day.
AJMO
@Amys Sister, How do we know we can believe the nutter butter story, or anything else we’ve been fed (ugh) for that matter?
Paula says:
September 5, 2013 at 9:48 am
She was the one who helped him with homework, saw to his doctor’s visits, attended his school functions, took him trick or treating, filled hi Christmas stockings and helped him dye Easter eggs…. He was a daily part of her life, not DY’s. Imagine being her now….
_______
Well said, Paula. For whatever reason Desiree became complacent and did not with due effort attempt to gain custody of Kyron. Kaine made it clear he would not make it easy for her to do so in spite of Kyron, Terri, and Desiree’s desire that the boy go live with his mother. The bio parents have to live with those choices and I wish them well in forgiving themselves.
The facts you have outlined could also point to a motive for Terri. She attempted to spur Desiree to action in gaining custody of Kyron. She fought depression and even moved her own son out of the home months earlier. Terri could have been a woman in desperation.
I see wrongdoing on the part of LE. One cannot read Blink’s article and not see that LE went way beyond the scope in an effort to pin this on Terri. Even worse is knowing that a man entered Skyline Elementary, Kyron was last seen with him, and this information was not made public. IMO that is unforgivable. Obviously we should always use caution with our children but to not notify the community of a KNOWN threat to their children is reprehensible. And to not have even one member of that community up in arms about it??
It all seems very ‘Twilight Zone’.
Amys Sister says:
September 5, 2013 at 11:27 am
I cannot fathom having a sleepover with a friend and giggling over nutterbutters and undies. Add that her husband has left with their daughter and I am confused by this behavior on the part of both women. JMO and not meant to offend anyone.
———-
And you were also staying at the Horman residence and saw this behavior by terri and DeDe first hand?
I’m a little perplexed with regard to KH and DY by not putting some blame on the school. Jeeze the teacher gave SZ her blessings by okaying Ky to leave the building with him.
Blink, do you still feel SZ acted independently, i.e. no connection to the Horman/Young family?
With all the information I have to date, I would say I am 50/50.
B
Blink, does Logan Storm match the description given of SZ? Among the many idiosyncrasies of this case is the picture of him at Skyline with Kyron.
It is my understanding that their is no confirmation that pic was of Logan Storm and to my knowledge he does not match the description and was in school (class- verified) that day as well.
B
Hello Blink,
Thank you for sharing the Dede Spicher interview.
I was curious if you had any further information about this: “Subsequently, Kaine Horman requested a search of the Bend attorney’s property, and indicated that Kyron may have gone there.”?
Why would Kaine think Kyron could have gone to this persons property? I’m not sure if I have ever heard of this before.
Sorry if you have already discussed this.
Cheers!
Maz
Because his wife consulted with them for an atty referral and he found out.
B
Idahogal says @
September 5, 2013 @ 11:37am
I am still beyond furious that these LE and DA people are so busy having a pecker contest that they cannot admit they screwed up and let someone else take the reins. All of the kids in our area are in danger, and God knows where else this SZ has been or is going. It just makes me sick.
Love and prayers for Kyron and his family, may the good Lord light the way to bring him home.
************************
Amen Idahogal.
The fact that MCSO and DA’s office continue this farce of an investigation with their focus on TH, DeDe, “isolated family incident” story is atrocious.
There has been and still remains a very bad person(s) out there that is a threat to other children.
By not arming parents with the information that a SZ remains out there lurking is criminal IMO.
Skyline parents may feel safe holding on to the mistaken belief that this was just an isolated family incident – but what a false sense of security!
SZ may still be in that area or could be anywhere by now.
BUT SZ IS OUT THERE SOMEWHERE.
Kyron was not likely this POS’s first – and it’s not gonna be SZ’s last.
Time for local LE to admit they had a narrow focus in their investigation – and that a real threat children remains at
large.
DDS is smart, if the product of a sheltered life.
I bet Terri knew MC’s online history (the Ex’s expose), his relationship
to Kaine dating to highschool while having none with Terri (remember the hubbie
who’d just stolen her daughter & slapped on an RO, while colluding in a “Sting.” )
I believe they knew he was in cahoots with Kaine or MCSO, take your pick,
and “fed the beast” to see how far he would go
given the propinquity Ex alleged he had for wanton women & drugs.
Imo the protective fire extinguisher was for Kaine surreptiously sneaking up, or the “Stinger” Terri
had called 911 on before. Previous 911 call transcripts are “best evidence” of some
storyline relevant to divorce imo & I trust Bunch togo to Appeals Crt level to obtain them.
Blink I hear what you are saying
and i get that you believe De De is telling the truth heck you believed she was telling the truth before you ever began the interview- you apologized for her treatment etc-
from reading here it is my understanding that you have had a long time coming to that conclusion & the polygraph only helped solidify your thinking and thats fine- but others may not be there yet you know?
And still more may ask why De De could not come forward with these revelations during her depo at the very least.
Sorry I hope when you or others speak of “haters” you are not including me in that group as I again do not know what happened to Ky IDK who is “innocent” and who is “guilty”…
i am just asking questions like always – trying to be the best advocate I can be for the victim-
Of course peoples rights are important the right to have counsel and the right to remain silent all of that-
but for Gods sake cant anyone admit that it was De Des advice that set all these motions in play/ she advised others to not speak Atleast until they lawyered up –
Well for most that would mean they COULDNt ever speak to LE as most would never seek out counsel
as they would
1 see it as too expensive
2 would fear it would make them look guilty
3they propably would never come forward at all or if brought forward, would talk themselves out of sharing any info instead opting to keep silent thinking anything that might have been important propably wasnt THAT important…and if it was…, then someoneelse surely must be aware of the info and will come forward instead…or LE certainly will uncover it by other means …
Why come forward and risk the “bullying” treatment.
In the Morgan Harrington case, you and I and many lamented Morgans friends lawyering up- not because we didnt think it was good practice- or their right- not because we necessarily thought they had anything to hide BUT because we KNEW it would hamper the investigation- OF a Missing Girl-
the same applies here Blinky-
What if every parent, every child, every worker at Skyline took De Des advice?
LE would not have had ANY where to begin in the early days-
the town would have stood Mute-
Just as Terri has done- for years on end
Today We would not have had any info- none
and sorry but EVERYONE was a suspect or potential suspect in those early days not just De De and Terri-
and One witness or two griping about LE as being bullies does not make it so- and I fail to see How LE or the DA blackmailed De De- or claimed she was involved (in a plot against kyron)
snip:
On the following day, July 22, 2010 Norm Frink made good on his threat to DeDe Spicher.
From The Oregonian, Maxine Bernstein
In a statement late tonight, Kaine Horman and Kyron’s mother, Desiree Young, and Desiree’s husband, Tony Young, said they had been briefed by law enforcement and believe Spicher is hampering the investigation. They implored her to cooperate.
“She has not only been in close communication with Terri but has been providing Terri with support and advice that is not in the best interests of our son,” the statement said. “Additional information provided shows that she is refusing to cooperate with law enforcement, she is also going as far as to suggest to others that may have information regarding Kyron’s disappearance, not to cooperate as well. ”
end clip
—What in the above statement is untrue? and what in the above statement insinuates that De De was involved in the plot against Ky?
To me again De De actions and advice Did hamper the investigation- and IMO LE did nothing wrong in sharing the info with Kys parents
Who both came forward to implore De De and others to aid LE by cooperating-
Again just as De De knew her rights being a daughter of LE- she also knew her actions would hamper the investigation-
She put into motion Terri and others claming up and as a daughter of LE she had to have known that LE always begins with the family circle and moves out- She hampered or slowed or helped stop the moving away to other theories.
You asked what remaining silent means to me- it means pleading the 5th in a depo – it means choosing only to speak to certain media- only answering certain questions- it means only choosing to speak freely w/ LE when it suits you and not when it could immediately help a little missing boy.
Im sorry how are my thoughts here going against what I have shared in the WM3 case?
I was all for LE in the WM3 case utilizing stings to get to the truth-
but I cant recall that happening…
I was all for the “sting” with Tony L- and the sting w/ george that fell thru, IIRC you were too… afterall without it LE would never have garnered alot of that info and may have been stuck on Lee or TL.. or even george.
BTW you said George was never a POI same as the rest- well we know that is untrue as Police 101 is look at all family then move out… georges willingness to speak w/ LE probably helped them to eliminate him from the start-
Are you speaking about LE interviewing witnesses w/out counsel?
yes as i said our rights are important
sorry but I think if you are comparing LE speaking with 3 teen boys who Clearly one was a suspect without the aid of their parents or counsel to extend it past those 3 boys to further scare tactics with other town boys/kids to get the dirt on the 1st 3 at whatever cost.. – to what happened to DDS well that is clearly differnt then LE asking De De to come in and speak w/ them W/ counsel over and over…
As i am failing to see where they bullied De De or anyone else to ever speak w/ out the aid of counsel.
If you are speaking IRT LE asking for polys to which in the WM3 all but Jason agreed immediately then Id say – again LD are useless and seem to be used only to argue a point or bias – not as the be all truth indicator.. and frankly- its just as deDe worried , LD are often interpreted by LEO to bolster their decided theories… IMo think Carson and the “essentially truthful” finding
But if youre speaking of LE running with a theory at the detriment of the case and justice-
well No I am not going against my thoughts in any previous case-
I can not say if LE is stuck on proving any theory as they seem to have been in the WM3 caseand BTW LE never eleiminated all family then moved out– Bin thsi case, I cant say if they are stuck on the theory or simply circling and unable to move away from that beginning circle to eliminate and move on because terri refuses to work with them- and
Also it seems to me – LE never came right out and accused De De of anything or threatened her or blackmailed her-
Certainly if they did herlawyer would have brought them up on charges or at the very least would have never agreed to meet with them alone nor would he then advise De De to do the same… without his presence
…that would be madness would it not?
and BTW if De De was so worried about the bullying about police tactics to hire a lawyer before she was ever even contacted by LE why is it she was so suddenly – fine w/ speaking w.them sans lawyer did they suddenly stop being bullies? seems not, as they “ordered” her not to tell her lawyer… but were kind enough to let her speak to her LE Pop as long as she agreed she wouldnt let him talk to her lawyer either…
When i said she lied i was speaking to the assumption that she must have agreed not to tell her lawyer right i mean they were comfortable sending her on her way hush hush…
- Also, Her lawyer who you said suddenly felt uncomfortable about letting his client meet alone w/ LE which prompted him to ask what was said behind closed doors… gee
seems De De might want to get better representation, as not only was that bad advice but with his seemingly not believing her story and not hiding it too well that certainly has got to look bad…
but thats nothing according to De de he was awful enough of a lawyer to put up with threats and intimidation by LE?
or was HE?
it seems the talk w/ LE the -threats could have been more so where LE or the DA-told her listen,
we dont believe you had anything to do with anything that happened to Ky but we do believe you may have info from or about terri or someone she knows etc that may help Ky –
We are asking you to share any info with us – no matter how big or small-
We realize you may not even realize you hold important info.. but if it turns out you do and didnt share it, -we may have to arrest you on down the line for obstruction of justice or aiding and abetting…
Who knows the truth is often times so personal and can be skewed by almost anything least of all facts as 2 people can witness the exact same crime and come away telling two totally different truths of what happened and why…
Thanks for letting me take up space and just for clarification when i said i look forward to De De further clearing her name i meant i look forward to reading more of her thoughts in your next piece
AJMO
peace
I don’t comment on other blogs and I rarely comment here but it behooves me to understand why people WANT to believe TMH and DeDe are guilty in the disappearance of Kyron.
Is it somehow less frightening to believe it was TMH and DeDe than believing it was a stranger, or a pedophile, or an ogre, or a young adult, or a known SO.
Please, if you are stuck on the step mom, take off your tunnel vision glasses and look around you. Even if it was the stepmom and her friend how is it any less frightening to believe a friend would help someone do this.
If and when LE proves beyond a reasonable doubt, before a jury of peers, in a court of law, who is guilty of the disappearance of Kyron, then and only then, should anyone let their guard down. Until then everyone is presumed innocent. In the mean time it just might be best to take a look under every other rock as well. Even Perry Mason was caught by surprise sometimes. JMOO
As it stands today, no-one has even been charged with any crime. I do believe persecution should be a convictable offense.
Prayers for the little lost boy Kyron.
Paula says:
September 5, 2013 at 9:48 am
wpg says:
September 4, 2013 at 5:22 pm
Compassion for Kyron should mean compassion for Desiree Young, imo.
Respectfully, wpg…I share your compassion for DY and I also have the utmost compassion for Terri Moulton Horman.
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Paula,
That particular statement in its context of my comments was directly addressing and responding to Blink’s article sentence regarding DDS’s “compassion for Kyron”.
I’m looking for the article sentence containing “her compassion for Kyron” to quote it in it’s entirety for you, but I can’t see it.
erose says:
September 5, 2013 at 1:51 pm
@Amys Sister, How do we know we can believe the nutter butter story, or anything else we’ve been fed (ugh) for that matter?
_________
I do not believe Kaine would forge the texts.
It is one thing to get your friend to initiate a sexual conversation with your ex, it is a totally different thing to forge those texts and offer them to LE as evidence.
@ CD, do you realize how your posts are disrespectful and sarcastic to those who you don’t agree with?
@Blink/Evie
Fun facts about the Oregonian.
Olive posts go to the netherland, post-haste – if discussions center around LE/bio parents motives or “controversial” theories (i.e. LE is up to no good) other than TMH did-it, etc.
We can credit the ‘cousin/couldro” types for setting up the system that plutoes them. IE sharing each others’ passwords and flagging immediately after posted. That little darling, moo – has since been banned; but his legacy lives on).
@evie….the “flagging” system is monitored by a contract player. I’ve talked to the editors. The most “flagged” gets the send-off regardless of content…especially in the even./night when no editors are there. Unless flagrant TOS rules are broken.
I only mention that because someone here earlier had noticed posts regarding the last two stores here (SZ and DDS) are flying away fast.
Regarding OL.
1. Max has been on vacation. Not fired. She is a fav of the new “corporation” that runs the Oregonian.
2. Olive-online only – has been promoted to “live” with the big boys. Now is located and a major player in the Oregonian building.
3. Oregonian deliveries will be limited come October.
4. Movement to digital is very important. Those journalists that have traditionally gotten fewer “hits” have seen pinkslips. Those not a “digital” player.
5. The pressure is on to bring in the most onlin viewers.
6. Your story did NOT make today’s print edition. However DY’s filing and dropping of the suit did. As well as the Depo of Ms Spicher. In addition, the depo article had links to the official document wherein many of the documents regarding TMH’s offense in regards to dissolution offense have not.
Neither here nor there for some folks, but in Portland we know why the media has been so biased on this story of our lost little boy. And why they have shielded some who ought to have been investigated with the same ardor that Maxine investigates the PPD.
I have a question still in moderation. Was there something inappropriate about my question? If so I apologize.
Nope, I am getting there, my apologies to anyone that asked for an individual response for the first pass of questions to the piece, I am doing as much as I am able
Thanks for your patience.
B
I wonder if there would be closure to this case if, heaven forbid, a deceased Ky is eventually recovered. I can’t imagine the perp leaving a calling card.
@Amys sister. Thank you for asking that question about Logan Storm. And Blink thank you for answering.
Just one comment about the sexting.
If you go back and read said sexting, you will see that the dates indicate much behavior (messages) was omitted.
Redacted.
And…even at that MC says near the end of the redacted sexts that he is “writing a long email to Kaine.”
In addition, those “sexts” were given to to Kaine by LE.
LE redacted the sexts. Kaine would not have been able to get them from his phone servicer.
The timing of the sexing release perfectly coincided with the (one of many) request for visitation of Kiara. Olive and all the channels have many articles referring to and posting the sexting tapes.
VW- I wrote an extensive piece about that, it is hyperlinked in this piece. I gave interviews to 3 different local tv stations and all their news editors nixed it because they did not want to alienate their sources- so take a guess who they/that is.
Kaine may have provided those texts as well, but Cooke had his phone flashed at least twice.
B
October/November – 2010.
@Rose,
Actually I think there may have been even another attempted sting, JMO, but I think the trip to the gym by Kaine & Terri was set up by LE and Kaine was wearing a wire. (He would not answer that question, when asked by a reporter subsequently.) So how many attempted stings has LE tried? and failed?
@MbS, love your analogy of the ship. JMO, but I think we may be able to see land soon, at least I hope so. “for the tides they are a changin’”. (That song’s been in my head since yesterday, were you in there too? LOL)
@cd, your response to Dale: you took the words out of my mouth. Thanks.
@Dale,
What difference does it make whether Dede may have said they were close or not? However, that being said, I don’t recall ever reading a direct quote where Dede said they were close as in, “she is my close friend”. Was there one and I just forgot? Even Kaine said they did not see each other that much. I have many friends that I’ve known for a very long time (some 40 years even) I would not call us close. Just long-time friends. I have other friends who I know as well as I know myself, whom I would bend over backwards for, and I know they would do the same, some I’ve known for 50 years, some only 20. So what? Where does one draw the line in deciding whether or not to be of help to a friend? Up to the individual I would say. Mute point anyway.
Also need to remember, reporters add crap. Dede may have said *known her for years* and the reporter may have changed it to *close*. Unless it is a direct quote, don’t always believe what you read, Dale. Several errors are already showing up in the reports that are based on Blink’s. It happens, shouldn’t, but it does.
The point is Dede has not changed her story. She has told the same story over and over and over for 3+ years. She has now told that same story to the GJ, and no indictment.
We have not actually heard Terri Horman’s account of the day, but we know that certain things, such as Kaine Horman’s admittance of a change in Kyron’s behavior and a reference made to a doctor appointment, point to what we do know of her story as being accurate. We know from the witness accounts in Blink’s story that Kyron being seen with an unknown man, which was part of what we heard from Terri as well, is also true now, and according to multiple witnesses. We know from Angela Leckey that Terri was where she said she was as well at that time. The only sketchy part of Terri’s timeline that we’ve heard so far is about a 45 minute time period where she claims she was driving the baby around to calm her. We know for a fact the baby was fussy, from both Kaine & Angela Leckey. Is it true? IDK, hard thing to prove if you never stopped anywhere or no one remembers seeing you drive by. Dede was being used by LE to try to fit a square peg into a round hole.
If there was an SZ, which witnesses say there was, and LE cannot tie this person to Ms. Horman in 3+ years, then consider this: just maybe there is no dot to connect. Perhaps then, this SZ is connected to someone else in the family? Did Kaine hire someone to take Kyron? How about Desiree or Tony? How about Uncle Kristian? If not Terri, or someone else from that family, then how can LE be so sure that no other child is in danger? How about SZ being connected to someone who worked at the school? Does SZ even have to be connected to anyone? No. (But PPS, sure doesn’t want to hear either of those options.)
Fact is, SZ could be a total stranger, which certainly explains why they can’t connect any dots to anyone. (If they’ve even tried anyone other than Terri, that is.) I guess, I just don’t understand why it HAS to be Terri who let this vampire in. For me, it’s time to look elsewhere, has been for along a time now.
Always good to hear what others are thinking. Especially any people from the Skyline hood. Me, I’d like to know what they were told. Was it something like *No need to worry, we know it wasn’t Terri who physically took Kyron out of the school, but we know it was someone she hired, or was connected with* IMO, SHE WOULD be in jail, if they ***knew*** any such thing, even if they couldn’t find the actual person Kyron was seen with. Time to move on.
Blink thank you for responding to my post of Mom3.0 says:
September 5, 2013 at 2:14 am
thanks for answering my inquiries – So it would seem that the inconsistencies in De DE stories are the result of People magazine misquoting De De ,…we can agree there are discrepancies between the two at least?
I did not say she was misquoted- I don’t know, and I would have to verify exactly what discrepancies you are referring to specifically so I would not be able to agree, no.
Blink I sincerely apologize for having offended you by asking the question over whther or not De De was paid for this interview and whther or not her attorney was aware of her speaking W/ You
I would never want to offend you blink – infact my question was a furthering of info which many were wondering about elsewhere according to the links provided by Longtime Kyron thread posters…
If you are referring to that vitriol pool of haters, I am not interested in “answering their questions” or reading their spewings in any way. Shameful and “ain’t nobody got time for dat.”
In my defense I was wondering too and I hope w/my questions in the the long run they can only aid you in gaining more traction as a “real” reporter-
Heh? What am I now, a wooden one? I have no interest in being a reporter. I would absolutely suck at it. I will keep my investigative journalist and private practice civilian criminal analyst hats, thank you.
I accept your apology, but I truly believe you absolutely did not have to ask as a reader/contributor/follower of my work for years.
To me the question was more about De De and less about you as i was wondering why De De only ever gave one prior interview and that was to PM for which , It is my understanding she was paid. Please correct me if mistaken
Link please as to your understanding. There is no way that is less about me than Spicher, but yes, you are mistaken she was not paid for that article.
Since yr piece pub., it is my understanding that both she and her lawyer are no longer commenting or giving further interviews which prompted my question on whether her counsel was aware of this piece prior to publication. Again i meant no offense=
Link please as to your understanding. Mr. Stavley was aware. At this time, Ms. Spicher has no interest in speaking with any local “reporters”. She feels that she has informed the public of her status adequately. Whether or not that changes for her I can’t say. I passed on all requests for interviews that came to me and/or Attorney Conner.
IRt the depo Blink she would not need to answer anything but seeing how she has been unofficially cleared- I would hope she would be willing to answer the questions – or better yet that she be willing to meet with Desiree 1 on 1 to answer any questions directly.
What questions are you referring to exactly, that have not been addressed directly or tangenitally?
Sorry to keep harping on that issue but for me Desiree is desperate for answers and I do believe De De could answer some of them most especially about the days and weeks after little Kyrons disappearance and how teri was behaving etc- It may calm some of Desiree’S fears and misconceptions right? No i do not think De de owes her anything i just think it would be the right thing to do. ajmo
First, let me say that in my conversations with DeDe, she has nothing but compassion for Ms. Young. She feels that she has been lied to and manipulated in this investigation by more than one party. I provided a direct and verified example of at least one instance.
Have you read the statement in full issued by The Young’s and Kaine Horman? I mean, who really thought that was a good idea? She was threatened with a lawsuit, Spicher was threatened with some form of criminal prosecution and in spite of those realities CONTINUED to cooperate with le.
This is my opinion only in no way signifies DeDe Spichers as I have not asked her, but if I were DY, and I read that I had been lied to for years about Ms. Spicher’s involvement, and now lack thereof and what Spicher was put through, I would have my attorney on the horn with the DA and Chief Staton demanding to know what else I had been lied to about, and what are the truths in the status of the investigation.
I would not be posting hateful and antagonistic comments that once again, lack merit. If DY really believes what she is asserting then once again I suggest she checks with her sources because DeDe Spicher did not have a prepaid/burner phone until after the Sanchez sting and the restraining order/criminal allegations against Terri Horman were public. Did not happen and LE has verified that.
Clearly Ms. Young does not believe Ms. Spicher has been cleared when all she has to do is pick up the phone and find out for herself. Under that auspice, do I think Ms. SPicher should sit down with Ms. Young?
I do not. Would she? Probably- if asked and her attorney did not advise against it – which again, to my point, she has not been asked. Does it make sense to you that folks are posting such requests on a hater site when Ms. Young has not even made that request personally? How legitimate do you find that?
You did not ask me, but I will offer this suggestion. If I were DY, and thank the heavens and glory be that I am not, the person I would be sitting down with is Kaine Horman, who I understand she has not been in communication with for a very long time.
i know you respect me whther i end up agreeing with you or not- the thing is Blink I dont necessarily disagree with you on this case-
ANd as you know i do think LE is more than capable of poor workmanship to even include some very bad tactics- i just cant say right now with certainty that this is what has been going on in this case you know?
I do. But I can and I have and I stand behind that. Not just in the maligning of DeDe Spicher either.
You respectfully asked me whats up w/ me-
Blink you are a very kind hearted person and when you believe a person needs help and is of the same cloth, you will stop at nothing to fight the good fight-
i am just worried that some may take advantage of that- and of you to further their own agendas and that would be a shame-
So please forgive me for harping on the questions and for being a thorn in your side…
Again i mean no disrespect to you or to those you choose to champion- its just my way of ensuring they are worthy
LOL
1. I work for one person in this case and that is Kyron Horman, period. The wee-man without a voice will always have the best efforts I can offer in diligence, resources and trust. According to Ms. Spicher, that is one of the reasons she chose me to interview her. It is and was her goal that speaking out would result in the redirection of investigative resources in his case in the hopes he will be found.
2. I did not have a conclusion about DDS alleged involvement until such time I was able to verify she had none, and had no information about anyone that had. When I say I did not believe she had any information prior to ever even meeting the woman, it was based on the fact that nothing whatsoever I have seen, heard or read led me to believe she did. As an analyst, I can tell you that she was considered a possible accomplice or direct suspect for over 3 years without a single shred of evidence of any kind to support that theory. In my practice, her name never makes it to the white board ( not an actual white board this isn’t the office, lol) I should also note that while I use and subscribe to the method of exclusion when it comes to POI’s, they have to be a POI based on certain criteria in the first place. I would agree that initially when reviewing TH’s activity for June 4th and any supporting verifications of same, if Spicher comes on the radar, she elevates in the investigation. She did not. Spicher hit the radar as a POI through LE’s monitoring of TH because she bought a prepaid phone AFTER she was advised that the Horman home and all communications of TH and friends were likely surveilled. This is not my opinion, she was told this. So long way around here, while I ended up finding DeDe as described, and honestly I probably left out some rather endearing nuances because I did not want to appear bias to the information, I formed my conclusion about Spicher based on the validity of her interview and supporting verifications therein, I was not championing her, I am championing legal and ethical treatment of witnesses and furtherance of correct investigative strategy.
3. This is a personal comment from me on Spicher- I will get to my professional take on “agenda” in a second. I don’t know that I have ever interviewed a person in an ongoing investigation of a criminal matter with less of a self promotion or preservation agenda in my life. I will expand on this in the continuation of this piece, scheduled for publication Monday. Now- the professional. I have successfully completed over 40 hours of education and training on Forensic linguistics and witness and suspect interview technique of which I maintain a 4.0 GPA. DeDe had no way to know how I would react or interpret the interview going in, and of course neither did I, but she was clear about my training to conduct it in our format.
If you want I can back off…as I am usually silent on Kys threads
Not asking for that, but I would ask you to consider the facts less emotionally- I say this with respect. I appreciate your support and contributions here, I know that can be a lot to ask at times.
I really believe GeorgiaDad nailed it with his post. We really need to ask ourselves where our opinion is being formed and based on what informational sources.
As always praying for kyron and all those who care
Ajmo
peace
Posted today at about 3:20pm on Anti-Terri
———————–
Desiree Davidson Young Also…DeDe – why use “throw away” phones to call and talk to Terri on and after 6/4/10 if you have nothing to hide and you are innocent. Oh and wait that means you were in contact with Terri after March 2010????? So many holes in this story I can’t even keep up. And those are just the ones that are public and we can talk about. And yes not one bit of this is about Kyron or finding Kyron. What happened to “find Kyron first”?
Ky I love you my sweetie and I pray that your life will become the number one priority again to people like this. Please know that I love you and would give my life for you. Momma’s still here.
If that is her, and she is making that statement based on info she received from law enforcement as she intimates, it is absolutely false. She is being lied to, again. DeDe Spicher did not own or purchase a prepaid phone until after June 29th, 2010. After the RO was served and she did so because she was told to assume that the Horman home was bugged and that LE was monitoring all of TH’s friends.
With much respect to Ms. Young- putting Kyron’s life first also means the willingness to consider the strategy in doing so which has failed, is flawed.
B
That would be 3:20pm PDT.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think Kaine Horman ever said that LE shared Terri’s poly info we him. I believe he said that Terri was the one who told ALL the family that LE said she did not pass. (which as we know, LE does sometimes to rattle cages, whether true or not.)
LE has never mentioned publicly, who, if anyone, passed or failed a poly, not that I can recall anyway.
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Back to the last thread, does anyone know what Steven Rockett did for a living? I’m curious after looking at the new house he built in 2012?
@VW. I remember positing back when someone questioned H Jung’s Aug article that it was family vacation time, and I pictured her at Sitka ot the Cape.!.
At the same time, a journalist who does not fact check Frink & bios’ story of obstruction with DDS by calling her?
At best I see her as a dilettante reporter who lacks the prose & detail of Pitkin, or our Word Girl, and rests on social skills & social standing in certain circles. Nothing wrong with that. The same skill set got Sally Ben Bradlee & a longtime Post job.
@NYLiz. In terms of intimidation at the heart of the conversation, let’s hope the budget-approving County commissioners listen up. Because lawsuits against the County are expensive. What I mean is, if 2 Deputies so intimidate as well as violate basic warrant scope with well-employed civilians at their work site, and women with fine attorneys, goodness knows what deputies get up to on the 11 pm – 7 am shift at the jail in that permissive supervisory culture. Seems to me the only accountability the Sheriff has is tort & civil rights suits.
I wish the link I published last Nov & March here to a Catlin high school student’s internship with Herron of 5/11,where he recounted his interview techniques, had not gone poof.
@Idaho. good to see you.
looks like your phone is doing that random ! too…
September 5, 2013 at 11:37 am
Greetings Blink and Co.!
From the very beginning of this case, I kept wondering why does LE keep saying this “Terri Horman was the last known person to see Kyron Horman.” I’d never heard such a saying used before. Usually it would be *Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron Horman.* Why did they kept inserting the word *known*? Bugged the hell out of me. Well, now I know why. Without that word, it would have been a lie. Accordingly to Blink’s witnesses, Kyron was seen after Terri left with an unknown male person.
So, racking my pea brain about how LE could be so certain that this person was someone connected to Terri, could it be that there is a witness who saw Terri with this unknown person AND had witnessed some interaction between the two of them? (IOW, not just standing next to one another.) Conversation or maybe exchange of something? However, there again, if LE had this information, why wouldn’t Terri be in jail? Is there perhaps only one small child who witnessed Terri with SZ earlier in that morning, and that is the reason they do not want to release a sketch? To protect the child?
If this were the case, LE would have asked Terri about this unknown person right?
LE: You were seen talking to a gentlemen at the science fair Ms. Horman, can you tell us who he was?
TMH: I talked with several gentlemen yesterday, which do you mean?
LE: The one who you were talking with earlier at say, 8:35 a.m. in such and such place at the school.
TMH: I don’t know who you mean, I don’t recall talking to anyone at that time and place. I only remember talking to A, B, C, etc.
***************
This is the only type of scenario that makes me even come close to understanding LE’s not releasing a sketch, insisting other children are safe, and keeping their focus on Terri even though Kyron was seen with an SZ after she left.
What do you all think?
My brain is so tired, not to mention my eyeballs.
@Mags. My 2 bits (and I usually have lots of bits, sorry,
apologies in advance & scroll as they say) regarding
“Q1: I don’t understand why was Herron happy about the poly results.”
Imo the act of a used car salesman seeking to sell his agenda—sting no. 3-10.
(Yes, TRuth. Agree Kaine with a wire was likely)
You get an area of agreement.
However, DDS did not have the iq of the average mcso burglar.
You would not be the first one to refer to Herron as such, or the 3rd that I am aware of.
B
one other theory we’ve mentioned here: the Traverso steroid sales network to LE hit the press in May 2010, promising a roll out of many arrests of LE, firefighters, & other gov’t employees. After Kyron’s abduction, that kind of died, stopping with those already charged, didn’t it?
And, the investigative press (that Oregonian Pulitzer man & Pitkin) were overwhelmed by the abduction investigation,
& the steriod/LE story died.
from mcso newsletter Summer 2013:
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs152/1102356663680/archive/1114416590760.html
deputy presentations on summer safety began in schools in 2010. did they begin before June 4 ?
snip:
Last year ” MCSO Deputies visited Corbett Grade School, East Orient Elementary School, Pleasant Valley Elementary School and Sauvie Island Academy. 15 presentations were given at the four schools in 2013 to a total of 565 students.
A total of 65 presentations have been presented to 2,270 students since the program’s inception in 2010.”
Also, inmate work crews:
snip “Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office inmate work crews kept busy again this summer working on several community landscaping projects, trash and debris removal, mowing, trimming branches and other brush away from county roadways …”
These workers had their Deputy supervisors. were they on Skyline Blvd in 09-10??