Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation EXCLUSIVE: Terri Horman Friend DeDe Spicher Breaks Her Silence After Passing Polygraph- Requests DA Clear Her Publicly
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation. ©
S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime
Lea Conner, Attorney- contributing editor, and, legal analyst
DeDe Spicher
Forward
In the days following the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron Horman from the Skyline School on June 4th, 2010, Terri Horman’s inner circle of friends, family and associates—casual acquaintances, shop clerks, and gym employees—were deluged by law enforcement.
Word spread quickly that law enforcement was after anyone who knew, might have known, or had any dealings with Terri Horman. The term used to describe law enforcement’s behavior toward potential witnesses was “bullying. ”
As the president of her former condominium owner’s association, DeDe Spicher was involved in helping the association with litigation against the condo’s builder. Spicher had a working relationship with the association’s legal team, and one afternoon, she casually mentioned the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance to the association’s legal team. Although DeDe had not been contacted by law enforcement, counsel for her condo association recommended to DeDe that, in light of what DeDe had heard about the investigation, if law enforcement were to contact her, she should agree to interview only with counsel present. She asked the attorney to sit in if that happened, to which he agreed. He quickly referred Spicher to attorney Chad Stavley.
With a search warrant in hand for electronic devices only, to which DeDe directed investigators, law enforcement proceeded to search her entire home. Multnomah County Detective Keith Krafve asked Spicher to answer some questions.
DeDe said she replied, “I would be happy to answer any and all questions you have but I would like to do so in the presence of counsel. ”
Law enforcement, in turn, began a prolonged and highly orchestrated effort to bully DeDe Spicher.
When I first introduced myself to Ms. Spicher, I offered my apologies for what she had been through and told her that in my personal opinion, she had been unfairly maligned, if not persecuted. I thanked her for her trust of me to tell her story. Ms. Spicher paid me some kind compliments on my coverage of Kyron’s case to date.
I found her extremely bright, animated and witty, with a charmingly confident , and self-deprecating sense of expression.
I also found Ms. Spicher to be very naive, even now, as to the standards, protocols and practices utilized by law enforcement.
I can’t say that I blame Ms. Spicher for trusting law enforcement so blindly. The fact is, she grew up around law enforcement but saw very little about the actual workings of an investigation. Ms. Spicher is the daughter of a well-respected—now retired—deputy with the Klamath Falls Sheriff’s Office.
At times, I found myself questioning if I would be able to exhibit the sort of resilience this woman has. Probably not.
I found DeDe Spicher to be unwavering as to her account of events on June 4th, 2010, and ensuing dates.
It was only a few weeks ago, during a meeting with MCSO detectives Mark Herron and Keith Krafve , investigators unofficially cleared DeDe Spicher of any involvement in Kyron’s disappearance or of having any knowledge of anyone elses. She is hopeful that Multnomah County District Attorney Rod Underhill will issue a public statement from his office clearing her officially.
To date, neither the Multnomah County Sheriffs Office nor the DA’s office has publicly declared any persons cleared in the active investigation.
DeDe is adamant that she was not involved, nor did she ever see anything that led her to believe Terri Horman was involved.
DeDe spoke freely and without hesitation as to the relentless harassment she experienced at the hands of law enforcement.
However, DeDe is adamant that she does not want this piece to express any sort of “pity DeDe” perspective. She does not want anyone to feel sorry for her.
DeDe hopes that by speaking publicly, the public’s curiosity will be satisfied, and the focus of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance can return to an actual investigation.
This is her story.
In Her Own Words
“. . . On a positive note, I have met some really nice people out of all this, so that’s how I choose to look at it. I can’t control other people’s actions or opinions about me…”
“I did not know anything’ I never knew anything ;and I could not get them (law enforcement) to believe me for over three years. ”
“. . . Since the investigation started, I believe they were able to narrow the time I was supposedly missing [never was, never left the property] but they never shared that with me and have not to this day. . ”
“. . . There was no communication between Terri and I since her birthday party in March [2010], and we had only been in touch the December before that [in 2009]. Terri and I were not best buds. I think that was something investigators were really hung up on. They could not understand that I would rush to someone’s aid that on the surface was a more casual friend. They saw that as behavior of someone that had something to hide, or as a motive of some kind…”
What investigators believed that motive was, they certainly never shared with DeDe Spicher.
No Reid School Alum
Investigators pummeled DeDe from the very start: You were missing at the same time that we can’t pin down Terri Horman’s whereabouts. Why did Terri pick you up? Did someone else pick you up and bring you back? We know you left the property, we have proof.
These are questions demanded from DeDe Spicher over and over again, for three straight years. No matter what she did to try to accommodate law enforcement–and she and her attorney Chad Stavely went through extraordinary means by any standards to assist law enforcement–investigators refused to believe she had no knowledge of the circumstances of Kyron’s disappearance. Until now.
DeDe Spicher’s story has never wavered.
DeDe arrived at her job at Westwind Farm Studio–a sprawling and lush forty-plus acre property scheduled to be on the Garden Conservatory Tour the next day. She parked at the main house, left her cell phone which was turned on, and her lunch cooler in her Ford Explorer.
She went inside the main house to check in for her assignment, and for the first time since working there, she was invited to lunch with the others at the house. There was no time set. The invitation was open-ended and she believed based on the timing of her project completions at the opposite end of the property. This was Spicher’s customary daily routine. Her duties in preparation for the garden tour took her to the end of the grounds for the bulk of the morning, near the road. Where she was working, bent over in tall grasses and vegetation is not visible from the main house.
Spicher was not wearing a watch nor carrying her cell phone, and headed to the house for lunch after completing work on one section of the property. When she arrived, she was told that Ms. Hockensmith tried calling DeDe’s name outside when everyone was ready for lunch. When DeDe did not respond and could not be seen from the main house, Ms. Hockensmith also called DeDe’s cell phone. Spicher said she apologized and explained her project’s location and status, and then sat down to eat. DeDe resumed her work day to completion. Her cell phone records confirm this account.
On one occasion, at the request of law enforcement , Spicher agreed to walk the property and demonstrate her activities that day. During one reenactment,, a female investigator attempted to mimic Hockensmith’s “lunch call” while Spicher was out near the property line. Spicher heard the investigator’s call.
“I heard that person that day. They never told me where she was standing, I just know I could not see her which is easy to do if you saw the grounds. I don’t know why I never heard the property owner that day except to say I try to be very mindful when I am working, and gardening is a love of mine I tend to immerse in. It was the first time I was invited to lunch and was looking forward to sharing the meal on break. Had I heard her, I would have stopped immediately and headed in. It was a nice treat. ”
It sounded like an innocent explanation. I asked DeDe why investigators did not believe her.
She responded: I was repeatedly questioned, hounded,my home and belongings were taken and searched for some time. Law enforcement kept telling me in interviews I agreed to participate in, by the way, that the only way to clear myself was to take a polygraph, which my attorney advised me not to. Since I had been told by Terri that she was told she failed when she was adamant that she was being truthful, I had no desire to be set up like that. I do not know to this day if Terri actually failed any polygraphs or law enforcement just told her they did. I know that once she told me that [investigators claimed she failed her polygraph], my advice to her was that she should not speak to anyone without an attorney, but she continued to ignore it, I think for a few more days. As I recall, I don’t think I was the only person or friend telling her that.
Editors Note: blinkoncrime.com has been able to confirm through an independent source which does not wish to be identified publicly, that Terri Horman was referred to her criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze via a family friend and attorney located in Bend, Oregon. Subsequently, Kaine Horman requested a search of the Bend attorney’s property, and indicated that Kyron may have gone there.
It was either completely naive or bold for Spicher to submit to a polygraph under those conditions. She was, by her own account, telling the truth, and then being punished for it.
However, investigators were adamant at “proving” a theory that Spicher left the Westwind Farm. I asked, “Considering there is absolutely no communication between you and anyone else, and you are working on a 40-acre farm on this day, wouldn’t it be true that the theory had to be that. . . ? ”
Spicher interrupted: Yes, that Terri swung by and picked me up for some reason, or some other unknown person. ”
The problem with that theory is that it required another person who was not at the farm to know where Spicher was working that day come meet her, without being seen by anyone else, and without communication with anyone else.
Spicher: “On several occasions,I reminded investigators that there was a witness to where I was working on that property on June 4th 2010, which I surmise would complete whatever timeline holes they thought I had. This has never been released publicly, but there was also an artisan show/market sale on the property the next day. There were a few vendors in and out of the property that day, but I remembered one specifically while I was working near the road that morning. I was there when he dropped off his pots/pottery and whatever else he had to show or sell. ”
The artist/driver who delivered his pottery was in his late twenties to early thirties and drove a red pick up. .
Stoy: So law enforcement knew that there was a witness from day one, that could corroborate your logistics on the property and approximate timing, is that correct?
Spicher: YES!I did not know the man’s name or the name of his creations or anything, and when I asked law enforcement for the information to provide my attorney they refused to even say if they spoke to him, or if they had, if they were now satisfied I was where I said I was and at what time. They declined to provide it to my attorney as well, and by that time Ms. Hockensmith had an attorney as well so I was not permitted to just call and ask her. I even went to the Saturday market a few times to see if I could locate him myself.
Stoy: Why did Ms. Hockensmith need an attorney if you know?
Spicher: I assume it was because all kinds of people were showing up at her property and pounding on the gates, etc. She was hounded by the media for weeks, and all because she gave me a job. I was horrified for her. All because of me.
Stoy: Was there any connection between Hockensmith and the Hormans?
Spicher: Not that I am aware of, they were on completely different socio-economic levels and their kids went to a French American School, not Skyline. I would not even know where they would bump into each other.
Stoy: Has anyone ever mentioned to you whether Hockensmith hired Rudy Sanchez at any time?
Spicher: No. Did she?
Stoy: I am going to need to check my archives on that one, I thought so but I could be confusing her with a different property owner.
(Editors Note: Hockensmith’s friend and fellow farm-owner Jean Ann Von Krevelen did hire RS Landscaping Maintenence. DeDe Spicher was interning with Ms. Von Krevelen, and was referred to Maryellen Hockensmith to work on her property. It was not to be a paid position as Ms. Spicher was willing to ‘work for her sweat” to learn all she could at the time. Spicher said she has never met Rodolpho (Rudy) Sanchez nor has she observed him on either property. )
Frink or Fink- You Decide
So how does a casual friend such as Spicher become elevated to Terri Horman’s lifeline to the outside world, only to turn into the number two suspect in a de facto criminal investigation of Terri Horman?
Frink-in’ thinkin’.
Norman W. Frink, longtime chief deputy district attorney for Multnomah County, was former District Attorney Mike Schrunk’s right hand man. While no longer in office and the DA assignments to Kyron’s investigations are new,there are strong reverbations from the previous administration.
Stoy: You mentioned that law enforcement accused you of wasting their resources and distracting the investigation. In what way did they mean or how did they explain that to you?
Spicher: First it was Chief ADA Norm Frink who said I was wasting their time and resources by not “cooperating,” by which he meant “take their poly[graph]. ” That was just a couple of days before news first broke about my “involvement,” and was all part of his blackmailing me.
Stoy: How do you mean blackmailing you,the DA? Frink?
Spicher: Yes. We were in a meeting/interview and. .
Stoy: Was your attorney present?
Spicher: Yes. Sitting right there. Frink said that we do not think you had anything to do with this, but we do think you have information about Terri Horman’s involvement, and we do think she is involved. Either you take our polygraph, or provide the information we believe you have, or, I don’t care, we will tell the family that we do think you’re involved.
Stoy: What was your response?
Spicher: I said that I understood the need for them to do what they had to do, but that I was not going to tell them something that was not true. I did not really expect them to say something they knew to be false. They did. The next day, my name was released to the press by Desiree Young and Kaine Horman. It was a statement about me not cooperating and I think advising others not to or words to that effect.
Stoy: I am not sure I even know how to respond to that, or if I should during the interview. For me, that is tantamount to telling you that were looking at facing an indictment of your own. I think a reasonable conclusion by someone in your position would have been that you could expect to be arrested for something they knew you did not do, regardless of what it was, to further a case that they seemingly had no evidence in. Again, I find you courageous to have ever had another meeting with any law enforcement officer or DA in this case. I think it would have been very, very easy to say, “Eff this. They are not going to find Kyron with anything I have to offer because I do not know anything, and they are not going to find him by putting words in my mouth against anyone else. I need to protect myself. ” You never did that. Courageous.
Spicher: Thank you, but I really don’t feel courageous. To me courage is when one does something for which they have a great deal of fear. Mostly, I haven’t been afraid, which is what pissed law enforcement off from the very beginning. The one time I was afraid was after the ADA tried to blackmail me and I began to realize I might have to live in a world where the truth didn’t matter. I was not courageous at all in facing that fear.
Stoy: I am not an attorney but based on what you are telling me I don’t see how that is construed as anything but blackmail. He unilaterally gave you 2 choices. Both of which were in contradiction to your 5th amendment rights considering he was ready to make a public criminal allegation about you- does not matter to whom it was.
On the following day, July 22, 2010 Norm Frink made good on his threat to DeDe Spicher.
From The Oregonian, Maxine Bernstein
In a statement late tonight, Kaine Horman and Kyron’s mother, Desiree Young, and Desiree’s husband, Tony Young, said they had been briefed by law enforcement and believe Spicher is hampering the investigation. They implored her to cooperate.
“She has not only been in close communication with Terri but has been providing Terri with support and advice that is not in the best interests of our son,” the statement said. “Additional information provided shows that she is refusing to cooperate with law enforcement, she is also going as far as to suggest to others that may have information regarding Kyron’s disappearance, not to cooperate as well. ”
In one fell swoop DeDe Spicher was the Richard Jewell of Portland, courtesy of Norm Frink.
Nothing grand about the grand jury
Dede Spicher was called before the first grand jury in July 2010. She was never asked any questions. I asked her if she had any information on that grand juries status and whether or not a true bill was sought, sought and denied, suspended, or dismissed.
Spicher: I don’t know any of that, but I believe that it was an election year and it was all DA strategy. I think they called me to scare Terri Horman and maybe Rudy Sanchez.
Stoy: Why do you say Rudy Sanchez? He testified as well, so that has a layer of at least limited use immunity and for all we know he had a separate agreement for what is called transactional immunity. I have no information on that though, he has never responded to my requests for interview.
Spicher: I don’t know, I just know that he is who Terri felt was involved. His name never came up until Terri was asked who had been on the property that was not a friend or relative.
DeDe was again subpoenad to appear before the grand jury on July 10, 2013. She felt that it was her impression that law enforcement and the DA were running out of time due to the civil suit and divorce case, and she read that the grand jury was extended for 6 months previously and about to expire. At the time, the civil case Desiree Young filed against Terri Horman and has since withdrawn was about to resume. A stay had been granted in November 2012, a month before a scheduled hearing to compel further deposition of Spicher in that matter.
DeDe assumed that what she did not know might, potentially, help the investigation by potentially shifting focus away from red herrings as to her knowledge of events. The problem now for Spicher was that the prosecutor had already demonstrated to her that it was not above using almost any means or tactics, and at the time she had concerns that even her own lawyer believed she was telling the truth. Stavley advised her to tell the truth, tell everything she knew. She did, repeatedly.
Stoy: So, you get a subpoena once again to appear before the grand jury. Detectives are telling you to your face they do not believe you. The prosecutor [Frink] has demonstrated he does not believe you. According to what you have shared with me so far, you question if your own attorney believes you. How lonely of a place was that? I think most people would have been completely terrified. How did you cope with your fear?
Spicher: You know I was terrified. It seemed like every time law enforcement would ask me for something, I would provide it, and it was like a fresh new hell each time. It was not going away. I could not even read about the case or discuss it with anyone other than my parents because it was absolutely clear to me that the public now believed I was the obstacle to either solving the case or arresting Terri to solve the case and/or find Kyron and I knew that to be false. The truth did not matter to anyone. I was told this so often I began to even question myself. I won’t forget a conversation I had with a detective about whether or not I was unconsciously suppressing information I did not know I had. I mean, imagine my response to that. I said, well if I am suppressing something, then I think that means I have to wait for it to enter my conscious by way of my subconscious and if and when it does, I would certainly let you know.
Stoy: So what were they suggesting? Hypnosis?
Spicher: No. Although I am not sure I would not have preferred that. My attorney had advised against taking a polygraph. I believed Terri back in June 2010 when she said she was telling the truth and they told her that the lie detector test was saying she was lying and I also knew that even if I agreed to it, that law enforcement was under no obligation to tell me if I passed or failed and even if they did tell me, that I COULD trust that information to be correct. For me, it was not going to be an end to this because I knew that I had been telling the truth and that was not what anyone wanted to hear so what was verifying that going to get me? It was more like the potential beginning of a fresh new hell.
DeDe absolutely believed that her impending grand jury appearance was designed to result in her facing some sort of charge for something that investigators believed would lead her to ultimately implicate Terri Horman in Kyron’s disappearance. In fact, she was told that what was an honest tax mistake/error on her part after she ended up being paid a nominal amount by Mrs. Hockensmith but never received a 1099, could end up placing her in hot water. The Capone tactic for a woman that took the job with the understanding that it was not a paid endeavor and when Ms. Hockensmith told Spicher she wanted to compensate her she declined. Hockensmith insisted.
On this basis, DeDe was advised to and agreed to an immunity deal. The terms of which are under seal and Spicher nixed discussing citing a verbal agreement she made until such time as it is unsealed.
A source inside the investigation who does not wish to be identified as they are not authorized to speak publicly on the case- has confirmed that Spicher’s agreement includes provisions that she continue to cooperate with law enforcement as needed, be available to testify in any proceedings, and to take a polygraph.
Spicher declined to say to whom she committed to not discuss the agreement but that it also included neither party discussing that she had testified before the grand jury.
It would appear that Ms. Spicher is the only one keeping up her end of the bargain as Attorney Rosenthal announced publicly that DeDe Spicher had testified- a fact that to this day she has no idea how he came by that information.
Spicher appeared before the grand jury for five and a half hours on July 10, 2013.
Because grand jury proceedings are secret, and the DA, grand jurors, and state court personnel are barred from discussing the goings on, the only person who can speak to a witness’ testimony is the witness. In this case, the grand jury witness is DeDe Spicher.
Stoy: So before we get into the particulars, could you sum up those hours in the room at all- would you compare it to the civil deposition you endured by Desiree Young’s attorney Mr. Rosenthal?
Spicher: (laughs) No. It was far more comprehensive. I am referring to the civil deposition.
Stoy: When asked about your weight, you were far more reserved and eloquent than I would have been. . . . If someone asked me my weight at a deposition, I would have said I did not know but would be glad to sit on him and let him guess.
Spicher: I know, right? Not me, I am direct, I had nothing to hide, and I was not intimidated in the least.
Stoy: So without telling me what questions you were asked specifically, what would you characterize as your testimony ?
Spicher: They were obsessed with my sexuality. Was I a lesbian,what were my thoughts on homosexuals: Did I ever have a threesome with anyone, with Kaine and Terri, etc. I was thinking if I were a juror, I would be like, what does this have to do with anything? I answered every question respectfully and honestly but my takeaway is that some folks still have a hard time believing that I would rush to a friend’s aid if we had not been in contact, or particularly close in the first place. I responded that when your friend texts “I need you now,” I got in my car and headed over there. There was never a question in my mind. Even if I knew that everything that happened to me over the last 3 years would happen all over again, I would do the same thing today. That’s what friends do. I also testified when it was clear that sentiment was not shared by some, that I certainly was hopeful that they never needed a friend “immediately”.
Because of the travel time ,Spicher requested that since investigators wanted to give her the polygraph in Portland, that they schedule it for the day after the grand jury. It was easier for her to extend her time in Portland than to have to return again. They agreed.
Upon arrival, although Spicher was prepared for, and extended her visit to take the polygraph as committed, she was told that they had decided that because she was on the stand for such a grueling afternoon the day before that they never want to give anyone a polygraph after such an experience- as it might skew the results. She made a mental note that they had told her previously that one’s emotional state and exhaustion level are taken into consideration in a polygraph. In other words, while investigators were telling her Terri Horman previously failed her polygraphs, and she asked them if that could have been due to the fact that she went through hours and hours of interviews just prior to the exams, investigators now had a different story.
Herron Hamster Wheel
Mark Herron and Keith Krafve began the interview the same exact way they had for years.
“We still can’t seem to put together the right timeline from when you were at the property. ” And on again it went. Spicher continued the interview as she had agreed to, but informed them that if this was her time use that to perform the polygraph they would need to travel to Klamath Falls on their own dime.
They did just that. DeDe Spicher passed the polygraph administered by the same Gresham sheriff’s deputy who administered the polygraph exam to Terri Horman. Spicher says in particular, Mark Herron was jubilant. She said it was like a party atmosphere. Spicher was verklempt:
‘Well, I am happy that you are happy, I guess, but the thing is, I have been telling you the same thing for three years so I guess I am just happy you’re happy ”
Herron went on to blame Spicher for the thousands of hours, and dollars that her refusal to take a polygraph cost the investigation. Then, they asked to speak to Spicher’s attorney privately, outside of her presence. She agreed.
After a few minutes*, they called Spicher back in and asked for her permission to meet with her privately without her attorney. Spicher and her attorney agreed.
Krafve starts by telling her: We are so glad you are on the team finally. This is such a big step in this case and you are really one of us.
Then, the hook.
We asked to speak to you without (your attorney) because we would like you to participate in a sting against Terri. We can’t ask you in front of counsel, and you cannot tell him what we said because he will then be obligated to make some calls as a member of the bar and all that.
Spicher asks if she can at least discuss it with her dad, a retired deputy with the Klamath Falls Sheriff’s Office. Herron said she could, but that he could not discuss it with her attorney, either.
Spicher told them it was 10: 00 PM , and reminded them that she has not had any contact with Terri since July 2010. Spicher told investigators that she was not comfortable with the proposal and would definitely need to sleep on it. They told her they would follow up with her.
Stavley, presumably uncomfortable with law enforcement’s request to meet with this client without him, asked Spicher to tell him what the meeting was about. She told her attorney that it was something they told her she could not tell him and that she wanted to get out of there and discuss it later. Stavley said he was not at all comfortable with that arrangement, and within hours Spicher told him that law enforcement wanted her to participate in a sting operation.
It was not until last week that Detective Krafve contacted Spicher directly to follow up on their request for DeDe Spicher to participate in a surreptitiously recorded sting where she was to call Terri Horman, and at the direction of law enforcement, read from a prepared agenda to include coaching by them.
Spicher declined.
* Edit to reflect changing the word twenty to “a few” for accuracy. 9/11/13 4:43 PM EST
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I always wondered where these lowlife forms who do a MFH figure a lowlife form doing the hiring would get the money.
@sam h says:September 8, 2013 at 4:13 pm
sam h says:
September 8, 2013 at 4:07 pm
I’ve been enjoying reading your posts. Your questions make me think back over other bits and pieces of discussion over the last three years. I keep coming back to this image: the press conference with all the parents: the look in TMH’s eyes. Some speculated guilt, some speculated fear. In the first year, that “fear” may have been interpreted as “guilty” and “fear of being found out”. But with the revelations we’ve been hearing from Blink, I’m wondering if that possible look of fear was something she’d been threatened with herself. This started a list of my own questions–like, who would try to frame her? Why would someone attempt to manipulate LE with possible false info—or as much dirt to sully a name—and no repercussions? Why—with all the manpower thrown at this case—are LE content to hold all their cards? Do THEY think Ky is alive? No? Anyone watch the HBO show The Killing? Reminds me of all the slimy politics that get in the way of investigations…
…sorry, clickety click too soon….
re the lowlifes. I know they might be willing to do something like that for “favors” (would DAD or MC get involved if it was TMH doing the ‘shopping’ and they thought she was interesting enough)?
OR would a lowlife be more willing to do a MFH (on TMH, not on Kyron) for KH, thinking that he was a high-up mucky-muck for Intel and could pay better?
Do we know for sure who a MFH could be traced to (and proven), or is it just a “he said/she said” situation?
….and who could do that to a CHILD anyway, for heaven’s sake.
I can see where KH wanted to be rid of TMH, but I think TMH might have just wanted to be AWAY from a bossy husband, just don’t see where she would do a MFH. Plus I really think she cared about Kyron, don’t think she would have hurt him, poor little guy. KH seems more interested in good looking wimmen more than little bits of what he would consider ‘extra baggage’. MOO.
However, since this is all supposed to be a SZ, I guess none of the above applies. That screwy marriage was just sideline garbage to a nasty sort who was just looking for little victims.
It seems that (redacted) has a facebook page and is now commenting at length on Blink’s interview with Dede. Three long posts at this point. I personally could not get all the way through them, but maybe someone else would like to try. They appear to be addressed to Blink
grasshopper, my dear lady- I am not going to give that individual any airtime here, no way.
I respectfully recommend we all not rubberneck the staged accident.
B
@TRuth,
Bemiss Horman Wedding Announcement (Jan 10, 1969)
Interesting there are child custody issues. I must have missed the chapter on KH’s half-sib(s). So a ten year marriage with a divorce that started in 1979 and was last visited in 2011.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1338&dat=19690110&id=OdlYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NfgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4091,2449303
anuary says:
September 8, 2013 at 2:39 am
I also just visited the “Anti-pages” and all I can say is unbelievable! My gosh immature, and extremely mean-spirited. I find it extremely hard to believe that TY being a professional LE would allow Desiree to get involved with such nonsense!
————
IMO iI would just make sure you never post there. No matter how bad I/you would like to tell them they are nuts. I would not want someone doing a background check on me or my family to find that I had posted on /been associated one of those hate filled (and in my opinion) psychotic Facebook sites. I cant believe that DY actually posts there.
@Rose, About R Neil frat and possible associations, fwiw.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Theta_Chapter_(Sigma_Alpha_Mu)
@vw says sept 8, 2013 @ 5:17am
good point on the press handling og the mfhire turning public opinion. wonder what would have happened if family hadnt been able to exclude not team players, maybe a balanced view with let the evidence (or lack of) speak for itself?
p.s. vw what are you doing up at 5:17am!? hehe if God wanted me to see the sunrise, He would have scheduled it later in the day! Maybe our timestamps are when blink posts or something. Anyway~coffee to u mate!
@t.ruth. i am still got that song in my head
“here a sting, there a sting…” rofl
@kat, that someone might have been framing tmh hence the guilt/fear face she wore in presser has been mentioned before but i am not sure if looked into. it could explain how she could be involved and know nothing about Kyrons disappearance at the same time. I think wpg would know how extensivly that was investigated. Hope wpg posts again soon, she knows so much what is fact/fiction in this case and has followed it closely for a long time
blink says
grasshopper, my dear lady- I am not going to give that individual any airtime here, no way.
I respectfully recommend we all not rubberneck the staged accident.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
glad to hear it!
@blink;
i guess i am showing my age. used to be that all reporters were investigative journalists, none would put their name on a piece without verifying it themselves. others were called typsetters.
my comment about media coverage was meant to say that since obviously some msm are following your dede spicher story it follows that they read here and read your last piece also but didnt choose t write about it. i guess unless only one msm read it and picked it up and others just saw it from them and others just saw it from them etc ad nauseum. i really miss the slower old days when journalists took time to check stories out and didnt have to produce an internet sensation every 20 mins. am glad you dont do that.
wash st coverage=
http://www.krem.com/news/northwest-news/222530491.html. carried the kyle iboshi piece
http://www.nwcn.com sept 4/13 carried kgw piece by kyle iboshi
fwiw, we have been contacted by several National news outlets and I suspect that will happen again as I finalize the continuation. I truly believe that in a way, it is such a mess it is difficult to believe and again, local media relies heavily on LE and DA and other sources for sources and scoops and are very competitive and reliant on it. In a different case I remember one reporter telling me that her EP would only let her report anything that might bristle LE if another outlet did first. She ended up leaving.
B
maybe both those carry kyle reports customarily, its the same piece on both.
T.Ruth’s old McDonald song is a parody on LE’s insanity.
This is the result of LE concentration on methods to help solve drug crime. They seem to have only one tool to the exclusion of all others.
Stings do not solve crimes of missing children. It takes some people dedicated to hitting the pavement to do the grunt work of finding and proving leads.
Time to call in the experts from other jurisdictions and make some headway towards finding Kyron. The people of Portland and surrounding communities should begin to demand that of LE.
I want Kyron found…my heart breaks everyday he is not. So much so, I can’t imagine how this is for the bios and Terri. I don’t think I could survive this pain.
I include Terri, as she has lost both Kyron and Kitty and her “family” as she knew it. People forget that Terri was Kyron’s mother too. She took care of him everyday since infancy, she helped with all the homework, dressed him, washed his clothes, shopped for his birthday and Christmas presents, planned his life. Kaine, IMO, was an involved father in the evenings, but was the working dad who let his wife and mother of his children do the rest. Not trying to take away Desiree’s role in Kyron’s life, but Terri played a bigger part by far, time-wise on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis.
I remember reading early on…”pre-MFH~failed Sting” that many comments on the MSM comments area included they knew Terri and mistakenly thought Terri was Kyron’s bio mom. They claimed Terri was a good mother who was very involved in his life and at Skyline Elementary.
I pray daily for something to break soon…it’s been so long and the hurt continues, for everyone. I pray Kyron is alive somewhere, yet I fear what that means..and the suffering he would have endured if that were true.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!! MCSO, FBI, ANYONE…DO SOMETHING!!
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
RE: my earlier comment that included:
“PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!! MCSO, FBI, ANYONE…DO SOMETHING!!”
Thanks to Blink and her league of Blinksters…as they are all doing something…the “anyone” was addressed to those who haven’t yet done Whatever It Takes to bring Kyron home.
sorry if I offended anyone, especially Blink, as IMO you/we here/etc are the only ones “doing”…MOO.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
I sincerely hope the Spicher family
has an RO on “redacted.”
I would also say in the abstract that if there are folks that think they can anonymously or without threat of prosecution spur someone to action in that regard, they really need brush up on case law.
B
wrt MC, & Sting to the x power,
I do not believe it began after KH departed the residence, after
the RO was issued. I believe MC was inserted for
that sring purpose long before, before his first “volunteerism” contact.
If Ex’s ex-website story was to be believed, he was a profligate cocaine (or similar) user & dealer, and
compulsive womanizer with her in the home. Now who else would MCSO decide to insert
into the home to trap Terri but a highly proficient womanizer (per Ex) with the lying ability and
conscience of a drug dealer? And why would such a type volunteer to heft water cases in the hot sun,
taking time off a job he needed, but someone who wanted to avoid threatened charges for this or that?
And, divorce over, even considering son, Ex had this stuff prominantly on her work website.
Would MC hire a lawyer to get it off, or would she suddenly become less vindictive or proud of her divorce
accomplishment? No, imo mcso had it taken down to protect their “witness.”
@ red rose
it doesnt seem rational at all to me that tmh would do a mfh to get rid of bossy husband because the house and other assets werent in her name at all. most likely a life insurance policy and all assest were to go to a trust account for kyron and kiara. even if figuring tmh might get control of half assets re kiara i dont think it would be worth it. and where would she get alleged money to pay for mfh? uh please off my hubby and after probate i will pay you? not many takers on that one! also i dont imagine anyone would trade a possible death sentance or life in prison for a roll in the hay with any woman not if she was gorgeous. well maybe marylon monroe, but really? maybe stings would have worked in this investigation if they were rational…like a poster earlier said, tmh on phone with lawyer houze…dede who i havent spoken to for 3 years is here and wants to know what i was doing after i left fred meyer, can i talk to her? its not a sting is it? old mcdonnel had a farm ee i ee i oh
@erose. given the lineage in the Elks (or whatever lodge),
don’t you think RNH followed his father’s footsteps into that frat?
I was just thinking of Sr Hormans state-of-mind as for over a year they’d waited Son2′s
trial (and maybe the publicity about gramps) due June 16, which was dependent on
an Ex-dau-in-law & his stepdaughter’s testimony.
It is reasonabke to believe O’Donnell told KH what he said in Guisto:
Rudy told us Terri’s ready to leave you. My wife got an RO & jammed me up.
($ & custody & house). I’d hate to see that happen to you after losing your son.
Who’s KH going to call to talk his options over? Neil & Mom.
Perhaps one worry was “how will I pay for it?” Neil was programmer &
webmaster contact on his initial fundraising website & the parents helped foundation
paperwork iirc.
Well, I imagine with one son in the legal system due to Ex accusations,
they were not about to have another Son face the same, whatever Terri might
trump up in the course of a divorce.
TY TRuth for first marriage litigation re Neil. That of course would have to inform
any advice he’d give KH. With his divorce history, advice KH received from someone in DA or
MCSO office to make a preemptive RO, retainingKiara,
house, & assets would be stupid not to take.
Interesting RNH’s first marriage occurred in Spokane, the home of Kristi’s first husband & second wife.
Perhaps the 2 met there while in their original marriages. Wonder when they married if his divorce was in 1989?
It seems without close reading the litigation was about money (lien on real property for example, likely
til past child support was paid). Kind of like Jenny had to file new motions on
Mark when he didn’t pay college tuition). The last motions were Aug 2010. Maybe she wondered how
he was doing with that fundraising website. Strange no reporters have gotten copies of 21 years of
divorce & custody filings. Sounds like they divorced when step-sib of KH was an infant.
filings & motions.
All of this is just relevant to state of mind of Hormans just prior to and just after June 16 impacting what sort
of preRO advice KH may have gotten from the only folks he was likely to talk to.
it’s always possible there was something in
James’ depo that was previously unknown
to his Mom & her legal team that then emboldened them.
—As far as SZ sketch goes, I just hope Friday June 4 someone paired Matthews
with a police artist to capture as much as possible of her brief glimpse in order to
refresh her recollection decades later. She was adult in Room 109 who looked at him,
briefly, enough to “nod” her permission to go outside, therefore had some glimpse.
@redrose. Blink said 905-920 iirc.
To me what matters is not being seen outside but the person who
manufactured a story to remove him from the classroom.
What the public should know:
–wearing a work suit, casual clothes, or workman garb?
–general decade (30s, 50s?)
–general body build: plump, rotund, slender, muscular?
–well-groomed or unkempt?
–hair length & facial hair?
–race?
–any unusual speech features or an accent in tge bare sentence spoken?
–what was it EM had the impression a slight boy could help carry in?
(parent contribution refreshments sounds about right)
@ cd says: September 8, 2013 at 8:44 pm
Never in a million years!
grasshopper says:
September 8, 2013 at 7:25 pm
It seems that (redacted) has a facebook page and is now commenting at length
———
IMO
Sounds like redacted is off their meds again.
No worries
B
Today is Kyron’s 11th Birthday. I cannot believe he has been gone this long. Love and prayers for Kyron, please Lord bring him home.
It is indeed. For that reason, we are publishing tomorrow, as opposed to today. Appropriate.
B
Someone asked upthread how Kaine could arrange to only be asked certain questions in an interview. I had that question to until I read Mark Fuhrman’s “The Murder Business”. He talked about the difference between police interrogation and media interviews. He said that it is common for interviewees to specify what questions canNOT be asked. He’s covered a lot of cases so should know.
To clarify, he is talking about the media. It is not common and beyond rare that a suspect would be permitted to agree to only specific questions per se.
B
@sam h. It seems to me someone in the midst of a postpartum depression severe enough to thnk psychotically, would not be rational about soliciting or carrying out a mfh. On the other hand such a one (Kaine told us she was ill & under treatment) would likely just pick up a gun herself. If one is suicidal, the flip side is homicidal. So, if Kaine is correct, and her illness was quite severe, it is reasonable he bought RS’s story as mediated by O’Donnell. I wonder what the psychiatrist’s testimony was in the everlasting stepfather’s divorce. Docket does say some evidence was disposed if, I assume privacy matters. It could have been about the child’s needs or either parent.
@Rose, Bumping. The wedding was in 1969. Both Bemiss and Horman were at WSU. It is in eastern WA, near Spokane. Horman was on the west side going to UW, then went to WSU. Wonder why he didn’t stick with UW to finish.
erose says:
September 8, 2013 at 7:49 pm
@TRuth,
Bemiss Horman Wedding Announcement (Jan 10, 1969)
Interesting there are child custody issues. I must have missed the chapter on KH’s half-sib(s). So a ten year marriage with a divorce that started in 1979 and was last visited in 2011.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1338&dat=19690110&id=OdlYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NfgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4091,2449303
ATG hit the nail on the head when he referred to the local crime task force (mcso, gresham etc) using “one tool” of their MO for drug crime investigation. However their execution’s flaw is additionally corruption. Ie, extending a warrant from electronics to search an entire premises for anything they deem of interest. Putting an officer to live in the home & gather conversations. Bye bye Miranda. These Officers’ MO tell me they lack basic training & supervision from a county attorney in Constitutional laws applications to investigations. It probably hasn’t come to the public’s attention before because drug dealers & users likely plead, and on the rare occasions evidence is tested in Court, who’ll believe the junkie over the officer? One more tool in the box, though, is searches. While they did what they knew how, imo their searches are generally for lost & missing hikers & boaters, not for child abductees. In the latter, idk we can conclude they have search skills.
While appreciative of the DDS interview & back story, going forward she should follow the more expensive attorney’s advice, Houze, to the letter, & cut off all contact with anyone associated with this abduction, and maintain silence, especially wrt any media whatsoever. my opinion only. Save it for cross-exam in a Courtroom because I’m confident someone will haul her in some day. So many Borderlines imo; so little focus on Kyron Horman.
DY posted an online note commemorating Kyron’s birthday 2 hours ago. In part it reveals the reason for the search timing. She wanted to, colloquially speaking, bring him home for his birthday. She feels she failed. Now taking the responsibility personally for not “finding Kyron” on that search is unrealistic depressive speech imo.
Imo whoever made up the “search grid” (of the area searched multiple times) and liased with her from mcso should be accountable.
Or maybe those posting commitments to bring him home during the search with dogs on a property that has been searched numerous times?
B
Isn’t today Kyron’s birthday?
Kyron’s 11th.
Saw a rather disturbing report on the Today show this morning. It was talking about how there are/were several chat rooms where people were asking other people if they wanted their children? For the most part, this has been people who have adopted children (lots from other countries) and then later on decided they didn’t want them anymore. Ugggh! The chat rooms were on Yahoo and have been closed, however there are apparently more out there some on facebook.
The surprise for me was, it’s totally legal to give away your kid so long as no money changes hands. Even your bio kid. All you need to do is get a statement notarized that you’re giving your kid to xxxxxx, and are no longer responsible for their welfare, or some such crap.
I found this appalling, how in the hell do these people know they’re not giving a child away to some pedophile? Apparently they don’t care. This makes me sick, and certainly needs oversight by someone who is looking out for the child’s best interests. I sure don’t understand how that is not child abandonment, or at best child endangerment. I guess Reuters has a story on it, I haven’t looked on the net yet. This just disgusted both me and my hubby who were watching the news together this morning.
WTF is wrong with people?!!!!!
@ Rose
What the public should know:
–wearing a work suit, casual clothes, or workman garb?
–general decade (30s, 50s?)
–general body build: plump, rotund, slender, muscular?
–well-groomed or unkempt?
–hair length & facial hair?
–race?
–any unusual speech features or an accent in tge bare sentence spoken?
–what was it EM had the impression a slight boy could help carry in?
(parent contribution refreshments sounds about right)
Yep. Step 1: Start with the statement that they know Kyron did not leave the school with Ms. Horman and then acknowledge the existence of SZ in the first place. Even if they have the audacity to claim that they are positive that SZ was a TMH accomplice or hired by her, (when they still can’t rule out stranger-to-stranger abduction).
As I said, the only reason I can see LE not releasing this information is that there is a young witness, perhaps only one young witness, who can be identified by SZ somehow (perhaps SZ spoke to another child that morning when Kyron was with him), and therefore, they don’t want SZ to know they have a description of him. ????? IDK, nothing else makes any sense to me, and now when I read it, that doesn’t make any sense either. How would SZ know who the other child was? Could it be the two girls?
If it is true that LE were hanging out in the bushes the following week as has been reported by a local here, then that might be what they were doing there. Were they thinking SZ would come back and try to take a child who was a witness of Kyron being with SZ? Wouldn’t LE put that child in witness protection and have them removed from the school and placed elsewhere instead?
IDK, sooner or later something needs to make some sense.
So much for F5′s magic today.
I’m gonna F5 someone in a minute.
Teasing, we are working our F5′s off, I promise.
B
@TRuth. SZ knows an adult, teacher E Matthews, is all the witness necessary, because he interacted with her, albeit briefly, to obtain permission for Kyron to leave the bldg with him. So imo child witnesses as an excuse not to reveal his existance with some descriptive factors would be CYA bs. It would be different if he were unaware of an adult witness. imo Mcso just doesn’t want the focus on him, cause then they’d have to report on their progress finding him and maybe even make him the focus of the investigation, alas.
Heh, disclaimer, I didn’t write I’m gonna F5 anybody. My style is candy crush.
LOL LOL- did I non-bold and make you the aggressor? Well then F5 me!
Teasing and sorry, thanks for everyone’s patience
B
Blink says
To clarify, he is talking about the media. It is not common and beyond rare that a suspect would be permitted to agree to only specific questions per se.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~
yes, Fuhrman was talking about media interviews. I was talking about Kaine and Desiree, neither of which are considered suspects. Does make me wonder why they excluded certain questions and certain reporters for that matter.
@SouthernMom, I like that you acknowledge that Terri has lost, for all intended purposes, her son too and of course her daughter she’s has been without for almost the same length of time by a matter of a few weeks. I wouldn’t want to step into her shoes but I can tell you that I have viewed the antis with their vitriol on Kiara’s birthday exclaiming with delight that she has not seen her daughter, that her daughter has likely forgotten about her, that she is no mother and merely a stepmother to Kyron. It should be known, if not already, that Kathy is Desiree’s stepmother and yet she refers to her as mom. I don’t recall a single statement or comment made by Desiree’s biological mother in regards to Kyron or his disappearance. There are numerous positive posts for Desiree about Kyron and how this shouldn’t happen and imagine if she was being treated with multiple vilifying comments that Kyron is better off without her, etc. I want to impress upon any reader I am not insinuating that Kyron is better off without, just that if the tables are turned for a millisecond, I would imagine the sorrow that Terri feels daily by not only losing one, but two of her three children and then having people actually celebrate that she can’t see her child(ren). I don’t understand that kind of hatred or animosity against someone I don’t even know, let alone someone who has never been officially named a suspect or POI in the case. Another thought about unofficially being cleared by the LE, that the anti’s don’t accept her innocence but with Terri being the unofficial defacto suspect in the case, she is automatically assumed guilty. I need some more tea as my mind is officially blown.
T. Ruth
To sooth your feelings about the exchange of children not wanted, this is not new and yes they have turned them over to those who want children for play toys. No matter what we do as a society, there will always be those who live outside the rules. This has to be corrected over time. We did not get in our present mode overnight. It took years and it will take years to correct things.
Some people are biological creators only. They have little love for the job of being a parent and doing the things good parents do. Therefore, they shove the job out the door to others. Those of us who love others and in particular children, have a difficult time with such a concept.
In your reply to rose you are using logic and experience of living and learning to make a plan for Kyron’s recovery. This is a skill that IMO LE in the area lack. Someone at the top has become too hardened to the damage crime does to families and is not particularly motivated to solve it.
Rose says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:31 pm
Tell ‘em to Alt + F4 themselves. Delightfully, the ‘F’ may have multiple meanings, if you have the imagination. ~channeling Anne of Green Gables~
Happy Birthday, Kyron, where ever you are. I pray someday you will be returned to those who love you and that justice will be served.
@Ragdoll. I had a 1 sentence comment. 2nd was Blink’s.
I understand as yens for next article would be irritating were I in her shoes
(& TG we aren’t).
from Oregonian:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/09/metro_president_tom_hughes_get.html
A candidate announces vs Hughes (who was pictured holding forth at the Union picnic), who
promises to “clean up gov’t corruption”. I doubt this job is as influential as Sam Adam’s current
position though.
just tuned in to a couple of links from upthread
Neil Horman belonged to a jewish fraternity
http://news.google.com/newspapers?
nid=1338&dat=19690110&id=OdlYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NfgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4091,2449303
description of fraternity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Theta_Chapter_(Sigma_Alpha_Mu)
I have never been able to understand why Kaine was adopted by the Jewish circle of corruption we have discovered, but maybe this is his ticket of admission.
I mistakenly accepted Kyron’s story as locally well-covered in print in June/July 2010 due to what proved to be journalistic meteors such as Andrew Burton, an Oregonian intern, who came from & returned to the East, and Pitkin, and similar brief-run local journalists now proving anomalys.
My candidate for follow-up artist has long been Nigel Jacquiss.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Jaquiss
But, imo his portfolio will be larger–the underlying issues in the DA & Sheriff’s Offices
& culture. He’s probably been giving the new boys a chance for 2-3 years,
with antenna out for a clearly drawn marker such as
Manhas proved to be wrt to Cogen character.
But imo, he is patient, will get there, and benefit
Kyron’s investigation by ushering in public scrutiny to
these public agencies & elected positions such as DA & Sheriff..
Yes, real journalism remains investigative.
@erose says:
September 9, 2013 at 1:07 pm
I thought Rose was asking the same thing, but I think Rose was wondering when RNH & Kristi were married. I don’t know that answer.
Just getting caught up…on the F5 wagon until tomorrow!
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
@RedRose- I also wonder if LE is hoping Kaine will let his guard down if he thinks LE is after Terri. A side note on your question about Kaines body language at the presser: did anyone else notice that Kaine put the button everyone was wearing directly over Kyrons face on the tshirt? Always struck me as odd that he did that
——-
RedRose says:
September 7, 2013 at 7:19 pm
here is some news!
Horman Kaine Andrew */Horman Terri Lynn Moulton MCR 9/13/13 9:30A THXK 544 JUDGE KANTOR 100666084 Hearing Motion
I just want to say that in honor of Kyron’s birthday…..I hate this case.
If I were to be or would have been at time called to sit the GJ or the Jury if there was ever an arrest and trial of anyone, everything would be so mucked up and biased that it makes me wonder if that was someone’s intention from the get go. Is it possible that someone mucked things up in this case from the get go? Should we be looking at those who wear Muks?
@Rose,
I am acquainted with Pitkin (now a PI) and asked him to write an article. no response. I am acquainted with Nigel Jacquiss, have asked him several times including recently) to write about this case, no response. This case is right up his alley. can only assume WW has a policy against covering this case.
Hunch only- I believe Pitkin is retained in this case as a PI.
B
@Blink
Hunch only- I believe Pitkin is retained in this case as a PI.
B
that would be wonderful! hope you are right on this!