Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police

A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued  ©

S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime

DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman

 

In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher,  she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court.  Unofficially cleared, that is.

Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley,  who have since refused all local media requests,  would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.

Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide.  While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously,  her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.

As was proven not only by her recent polygraph,  but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place,  Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.

The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher  as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.  Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.

Stoy: So, in your estimation then,  why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.

Spicher:  I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons.  I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with.  He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc.  I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name.   As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order,  she was also told that

Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that?  I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.

Spicher: No.  I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th.    I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.

Stoy: ok, sorry, continue.  So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?

Spicher:  They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding.  It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June,  and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March.  So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?

To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.

Stoy: Which was?

Spicher: At first,  I think that they really believed I was involved,  and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was,  and my vehicle never left, nor did I.  They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.

Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case,  they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?

Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect.  I never felt that way,  but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever,  but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.

Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?

Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did.  To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning.    I would ask like who do you mean,  because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this.  I was scared and it turned out it was good reason.   I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.

Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice?  Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that.  People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies.  I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative.  In fact,  Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly.  So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.

Spicher: (laughs) Interesting.  I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.

Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?

Spicher: No,  do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?

Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?

Spicher:  I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house.  Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.

Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?

Spicher: That’s it,  yes, him.  Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?

Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through,  and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you.  If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information,  I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?

Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.

Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back ,  considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work?  What did your attorney say when you told him?

Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney,  but to answer your question as to my opinion,  I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction.  After more thought,  and other conversations,  I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible.   What is your opinion on it?

Stoy:  I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece.  Again, not wanting to temper your opinions  as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did.  Is that ok with you?

Spicher: Sure, thank you.

Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion.  I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman.  Is that correct?

Spicher: Correct, ok.

Stoy: Did they ask you this?

Spicher: Who is they?  You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).

Stoy: Fair point, you’re right.  The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor.  Allow me to rephrase please.  Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?

Spicher:  Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?

Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?

Spicher: (laughs) touche’ .  I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids.  I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.

Stoy: Why shock you?

Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing”  and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well,  impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.

Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct?  That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc.  And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?

Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury.  But yes, that is what she told me.  I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her.  To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement .  I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case,  but yes,  they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are.  But that is my assumption.

Stoy:  Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s  service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home?  Spicher:  I am not sure about the exclusive use part,  I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.

Stoy: Ok.  Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory.  By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.

Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.

Stoy:  How would you know that?

Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request.   She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids.  I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.

Stoy: ok,  understood,  we will get back to that.  I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.”  Do you recall what year, even ballpark.

Spicher:  I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005,  and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.

Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine,  I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help.  Do you remember where you were during the conversation.

Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell,  Terri had a lot of drama,  and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know,  we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.

Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?

Spicher:  Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention.  It was either during that call or at the lunch.  Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.

Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?

Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.

Stoy: Got it.  What did she say

Spicher:  She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”.  She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her.  She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller.  The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him.  I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.

Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from?  Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?

SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.

Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person?  Sort of like…  she gets approval to remain anonymous,  she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?

Spicher: Yes, something like that.  Except and again,  we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out.  The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact.  From what I recall,  I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.

Stoy: Understood,  so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day,  but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.

Spicher: Yes,  I think so.

Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice.  I don’t think so because she did not ask for any.  So then what?  Did Kaine find out?

Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy,  and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day.   If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember,  that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.

Stoy: Ok.  Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?

Spicher:    Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed,  it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing.   She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office.   We did.

Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what?  Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher:  I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served,  in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le,  but it would surprise me.  Terri was always very family centric.  She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing,  this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.

Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: No, not at all.

Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?

Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper.   He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.

Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting”  and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”

Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.

Stoy: She specifically said the FBI,  who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.

Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s  contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?

Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?

 

Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?

It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years.  The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier.  As a strong argument for the trickle down effect,  Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle,  was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report.   A former Sheriff,   Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications.  The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place.  Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.

In fact,  Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.

MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.

The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell.   O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.

There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.

In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week,  it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.

It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan,  the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.

Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.

After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids  a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption  tipping other’s off  in the alleged ring ,  Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso,  Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested.  The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike.   The specifics of which were sealed by the court.  It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.

Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids?  How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?

“… Jackson,   through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”

“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest.  He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”

 On June 3rd, 2010,  approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance,  Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.

From the Indictment:

Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury,  in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden.  Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products.  Worden has never been charged.

 Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and

841(b)( 1)(E).

 

The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known  to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).

 

The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin,  a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.

 

According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.

 

 

From Buff To Puff

 

In contrast to Jackson,  although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement,  William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon”  cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.

In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote,  “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”

 

Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way.  Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client,  was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.

 

John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case,  sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well.  Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question.  Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason.  The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.

“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”

Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.

Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.

 

On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.

Andrew Millbrooke  filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby,  Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith  for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot.   In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy.  The suit is pending.  A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion.  Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].

 

With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against  Traverso were dismissed  this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.

Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation.  Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.

As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .

Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold  illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.

However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids,  but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.

“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.

“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.

He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.

At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”

S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.

The source,  an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…”   “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…”  The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.

Reached for comment,  Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.

A request for comment to Mr. Bunch,  Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.

 

More Questions Than Answers..

Following several hours of interviews with  DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?

Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.

She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”

She was not.

Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself.  Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.

Through Spicher,  Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness”  which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc,  Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th.  His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.

Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought.  Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.

 

Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada  Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous.  Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom,  to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.

To her knowledge,  there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.

In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.

 

Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:

“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”

 

Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators.  One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer,  at their own expense  The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had  agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.

“…  This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.

 

The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”

 

I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange.  She had.  I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.

Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion.  Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.

I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home.  She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.

Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?

Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.

Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper?  I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen,  and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.

Spicher:  No, it wasn’t.  Kaine bought it.  It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property.   I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home.  I  mean, like cleaning the gutters,  cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing.  To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.

Stoy: With a baby,  7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that?  No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help.  I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.

Spicher:  No,  Terri  had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children.  I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money.  I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage.  One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that.  I believe the other was the landscaper.

Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.

Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that?  But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.

Stoy:  Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?

Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].

Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement.  Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you.  Are you angry about that?

Spicher:  O my no.  That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine.  I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can..   I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them.   I really pray that Kyron will be found,  I choose to put my energy into hope for that.

Pending Matters

Through Attorney Bunch,  Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.

In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday,  Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.

Early this afternoon,  a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.

A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013

 

 

Jacqueline Beaufort,  Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.

Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.

 

 

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4,398 Comments

  1. GeorgiaDad says:

    From Blink’s link above:

    “Another difference between discovery and 39 I depositions is the need to include in the 39 I deposition notice a “brief description of the subject areas of testimony…” ORCP 39 I(2)(a). Based upon the plain language of the Rule, the noticing party should describe the subject areas of testimony with as much detail as necessary to provide fair notice to the other party and therefore avoid objections to scope. The other party should be vigilant in objecting to questions that are outside the noticed subject matter. Objections to scope will also be waived if not made during the deposition. ORCP 39 I(3). ”

    As I understand it, both sides get to question a witness at a deposition, so Houze and company could cross examine him. But, in a 39I deposition, cross-examination would be limited to specifically which issues could be discussed. In fact, the next paragraph states that the respondent’s attorney would have to specifically announce in advance any line of questioning he wishes to follow.

    This is apparently an attempt by Team Kaine (possibly with DA assistance, to limit the scope RS-E’s testimony in this case. Obviously, Team Terri would love to question RS-E for hours and hours.

    I wonder if RS-E will actually show up for his deposition. After all, he apparently alleges that there was a criminal conspiracy to kill Kaine, and yet he made no effort to warn Kaine or notify LE. This may not technically be illegal, but could lead to a vigorous cross-examination.

  2. patriciamochalatte says:

    CD, Thank you for clarifying .
    I sensed it was a husband/wife relationship but I think you are correct.
    I agree that more information is needed to confirm.

  3. cd says:

    Concerned Citizen says:
    October 17, 2013 at 9:41 am
    That was a different Desiree Davidson. Not Desiree Davidson Young. Different birthdates.
    ————-
    Actually according to Blinks article the birthdate was the same.
    ————-
    -snip
    EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as  Desiree Davidson  was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier.   She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later.  David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree,  but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well.  The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.

    http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/09/11/kyron-horman-disappearance-series-part-i-desiree-young-v-terri-horman-civil-as-an-oxymoron/

    cd- I chose that verbiage very carefully based on our confirmed research and conferring with legal of course. I would like it to stand as is for that reason. I did not say it was the same DOB, I said it came up under a search linked to DY to include her DOB.
    B

  4. T. Ruth says:

    Thank you Blink for the OR39 link. Very interesting indeed. Why is Rackner playing games, did she not think Houze would object?

    @Rose, I agree with you, came from DA, Rackner and her associates are acting as an agent for the DA, who according to Kantor, have no part in this dissolution.

    http://www.mhgm.com/our-resources/articles/The-Oregon-State-Court-Perpetuation-Deposition-Opportunities-for-the-Prepared-and-Pitfalls-for-the-Unwary

  5. T. Ruth says:

    Wow, just wow. Rackner/Engel filing that without proper time for Houze/Bunch to file a prior discovery deposition. Somebody’s playing dirty pool and it appears to me, to be making some desperate moves.

    ” If the witness is potentially adverse to a party’s case, then that party should insist upon a discovery deposition prior to the 39 I deposition. ORCP 39 I(5). The Rule allows for a prior discovery deposition as a matter of right, subject to the trial court’s discretion to issue orders to protect witnesses from “annoyance, embarrassment, oppression or undue burden….” ORCP 36 C; Martin v. DHL Express, Inc., 235 Or App 503, 509, 234 P3d 997 (2010) (trial court’s refusal to allow a discovery deposition prior to 39 I deposition of a witness suffering from acute multiple sclerosis was within the trial court’s discretion pursuant to ORCP 36 C).

    For convenience sake, counsel often conduct the discovery deposition immediately prior to the 39 I deposition. This can be a mistake because it often will not afford sufficient time for counsel to develop a quality cross-examination before the 39 I deposition takes place. Therefore, a party seeking a discovery deposition should attempt to schedule it so there is sufficient time to obtain the transcript, formulate a cross-examination strategy, and decide whether additional subject areas should be noticed for perpetuation.”

    http://www.mhgm.com/our-resources/articles/The-Oregon-State-Court-Perpetuation-Deposition-Opportunities-for-the-Prepared-and-Pitfalls-for-the-Unwary

    Would this OR39, be used to protect a witness as well? IOW, is RSE in some sort of witness protection program?

  6. Amys Sister says:

    Blink says: (snipped) Unless TMH is an *as yet never seen before* hybrid of psychopath, you can bet her interviews ( had they been recorded as I understand from Bobby O’Donnell filing they were not- would reflect exactly what i am suggesting. (snipped)
    _____

    WT Heck wouldn’t any interviewer not record an interview?

    In a missing child case with the entire world watching why wouldn’t the interview be taped, recorded, sealed in stone and em bronzed?

    I think where the opinions get skewed on this is the difference between interview and a custodial interview /interrogation. Post miranda- it is only mandatory in about 800 jurisdictions in the US and Alaska, MI and I believe Illinois. ( anyone is welcome to fact correct).

    I don’t believe that TMH was not surreptitiously recorded, I believe that Mr. O’Donnell acted out of scope as stated by DA Rees- but that is strictly my opinion. TMH’s dad was 90% sure she was going to be arrested based on what went on within those hours for some reason.

    B

  7. Amys Sister says:

    The perpetuity deposition Kaine’s attorney attempted to give Sanchez is probably because RSE has very delicate information regarding not only the MFH but also Kyron’s disappearance and they aren’t ready for Houze to get that information yet.

    They scheduled this depo very quickly after the last hearing and gave Houze little notice. Thinking that was in an effort to keep Sanchez undercover and away from Terri’s attorneys and the media.

    He’s obviously an important witness.

    ****

    I’m bringing this post forward because it may have gotten lost in the fray of Blink’s very busy life:
    RedRose says:
    October 14, 2013 at 12:55 am
    Five people missing, without a trace:
    2 little children
    their mommy Elsie
    DAD
    Kyron
    _______

    Amy’s Sister responds: Some information we can count on as fact. This is one of them and IMO has everything to do with the investigation.

  8. T. Ruth says:

    vw, thank you for the copies of the subpoena for RSE and Houzes’ responses.

    ***********

    Question, I see from the documents that RSE’s regular old deposition was to be held at Rackner/Engel offices at 2:00 p.m. October 16. No secret location.

    The original notice was sent to Houze on the 4th of October. On October 11, a Thursday,( hard-mail copy October 12) they received the change from Rackner/Engel to make the deposition one of perpetuation.

    What was Rackner/Engel trying to block? Houze has said he wanted to subpoena RSE for depo long ago. Would not Houze have been at the regular deposition of RSE? Does he no longer want to depose RSE, because he has gotten information elsewhere? Or is it that his deposition questions would have been limited in some way?

    I guess I’m still kinda’ lost as to what just happened and the why of it. Perry Mason, I am not.

  9. erose says:

    Alan Shore crush.

    OMG, yes, I am enjoying him immensely in Blacklist.
    B

  10. erose says:

    @TRuth, In my lay interpretation, first a depo in a divorce case does not warrant a cross unless it goes to trial, second, by changing to perpetuation, RSE would talk one time only and something like a video of his depo would be submitted at trial. IOW, no cross, EVER. Totally understand why HofB wanted an emergency hearing, I doubt the other 99% of people following the case see this as anything other than TH trying to shut RSE up. So frustrating.

  11. erose says:

    WRT KH, are we saying he seized an opportunity to get rid of his wife, or are we saying he’s involved?

    If that is to me erose, I in no way believe Kaine is involved in the disappearance of his son.
    I do believe he is a very, very smart man and shrewd enough to harness a team to do more to find him than is being done currently, but doing so would likely lead him to the place he is trying to hide in secret for the time being.

    B

  12. erose says:

    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh…when DY refers to Richard Davidson (btw Kyron’s middle name) as Kyron’s grandfather (which I assumed to be her stepfather) he was really once her father-in-law.

    I thought it was her Step Dad? Kelly and the brother are step-siblings I believe.

    Not “defining” the relationship here, just being factual ( until I am corrected, lol, but that is what I thought)
    B

  13. T. Ruth says:

    GraceintheHills says:
    October 17, 2013 at 12:07 am

    Slowroller says:
    October 16, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Blink says,

    I absolutely believe had that been done in this case ( and I know for a fact it was not as neither of the 2 MCSO top suspects ( at one time) DeDe Spicher and Terri Horman were never interviewed by anyone in the FBI- who has this type of training and as a continuing education requirement, updates it frequently.

    **********

    Terri was never interviewed by anyone from the FBI, when they were called in the first night Kyron disappeared? Wow, that blows me away.

    I wonder what she meant by “mark one for the FBI”?

    I was under the impression that someone from the bureau may have called her back in response to her 911 call where she told the dispatcher who she was in relation to the Kyron case and was told someone would call her back. Of course this was after the sting, but I’m really surprised she was not interviewed by an FBI agent, the very first night they were called in, not just her, but all the family members.

  14. erose says:

    @Rose, Amherst apt. was Ruth Tweet’s house. I did a whole thing on it way back. Maybe I can find it.

  15. erose says:

    Mistake, Renada was her house but Tweet was tied to Amherst as an associate.

    http://www.veromi.net/Summary.asp?vw=People&Search=People&Input=Address&addr=9850+amherst&zip=&city=clackmas&state=OR

    It’s a good thing I can research a little, because I am sure my legal theories are already shot to chit, lol.

    enumclawrose says:
    September 17, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    RUDY
    If I start with R L Landscape Maintenance, which we have been told is the Rudy we are interested in, he has this license since 01-08-2008 and is listed as Rodolfo Sanchez, P O Box 347, Canby OR 97013 and 7169 SE Renada St., Milwaukie, OR 97267. The Canby address goes back to Rudy Sanchez Landscape Maintenance 10-31-05 thru 11-01-07 with a physical address of 9850 SE Amherst Apt. 50, Clackamas, OR 97015.

    enumclawrose says:
    January 18, 2011 at 3:31 am

    Here is a “tweet” for you all. Ruth Ingeborg Tweet, possible associate or room mate of Rodolfo Sanchez, Rodolfo S Estrada (definately our Rudy). I originally thought the Tweet’s may have had the Renada St house prior to the Sanchez-Estrada gang, but who knows.

    http://www.veromi.net/Summary.asp?fn=RUTH&mn=I&ln=TWEET&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&city=&state=&age=&vw=&Search=&Input=&x=49&y=10

    OBIT for Ruth Tweet’s sister, Helen L Dupus (86) names Helen’s daughter:
    Dorothy “Dotty” HOLM of Lake Oswego

    Survivors include her daughter, Dotty Holm of Lake Oswego and Carol Johns of Oregon City; her sister Ruth Tweet of Milwaukie; five grandchildren and three great-grandchildren.

    http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.northam.usa.states.oregon.counties.lincoln/1147/mb.ashx

    At first I thought Dotty could be Kim’s mother, but she and/or Carol have 5 kids, which I think I can account for, but there are only three ggkids, which with Kim’s gang, there would be lots more if Kim were Dotty’s daughter.

    Don’t forget Dotty’s sister Ruth Tweet is connected to Rudy. So maybe Kim’s dad (HOLM) and Dotty’s husband (HOLM) are related?

    SANCHEZ – TWEET – HOLM ???

  16. patriciamochalatte says:

    Assuming that this David Roy Davis is linked to DY. Do any of the dates of his arrest(s?) Or possible release dates coincide with dates of potential interest? Dates such as, when DY signed over custody of her boys to their Father’s and alleged claim of moving out of country for medical purposes,

  17. RedRose says:

    so….
    if they (LE, whoever) know where Rudy Sanchez-Estrada is, then it follows that Rudy would know where his wife and two kiddies are, and then it follows (If LE does the following…) would be able to track Elsey, that Elsey is within reach.

    They know where she is and the two children, just that nobody is sayin’ nuthin’

    Wonder Why?

    Has it been established the missing Elsie and children are RSE’s wife and kids?
    B

  18. Ode says:

    OMG, yes, I am enjoying him immensely in Blacklist.
    B
    ******
    Interesting that you brought that up. The show where the doctor enters the school and is able to identify her nemesis’ daughter by her first name and able to take her away from her teacher by calling her name sooo reminded me of what may have happened to Kyron.

  19. patriciamochalatte says:

    erose,
    Interesting find.

  20. grasshopper says:

    erose and blink say,
    when DY refers to Richard Davidson (btw Kyron’s middle name) as Kyron’s grandfather (which I assumed to be her stepfather) he was really once her father-in-law.

    I thought it was her Step Dad? Kelly and the brother are step-siblings I believe.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Richard is D’s bio dad, Kathy is her STEPMOM and no mention has ever been made on where D’s bio mom is

  21. RedRose says:

    Holm – Holm ???
    As in: Holm/Villarreal?

    “I think everyone here knows my hinky feelings on the Holm/Villarreal family.Does anyone have a link to Catarino Villareal’s obituary?”, quoted from:
    http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9196.860;wap2

    I don’t have time to wander thorugh this, but maybe someone else can. I have tulips and daffodils to plant on this sunny autumn afternoon….

    @erose says:October 17, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    SANCHEZ – TWEET – HOLM ???

  22. grasshopper says:

    Blink says
    Blink says,

    I absolutely believe had that been done in this case ( and I know for a fact it was not as neither of the 2 MCSO top suspects ( at one time) DeDe Spicher and Terri Horman were never interviewed by anyone in the FBI- who has this type of training and as a continuing education requirement, updates it frequently.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    How do you know Terri was never interviewed by FBI? I mean where did that info come from?

    Source. TMH was never interviewed by the FBI wrt to the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman.

    B

  23. grasshopper says:

    at risk of being on a wild goose chase, I’m still mulling over the iboshi docs. the fax number at the top is 503-988-5773 which appears to be the main court house fax number and probably more than one office uses that number. the identifying tag on top of page says circuit court admin. The closest I can come to that name is Circuit Court Trial Administrator. Don’t know if file room uses this number too or if different offices have different tags on top. I continue to be curious as to who at the court house sent them and why they were sent on the 16th. The action started on Oct 4 yet they weren’t sent out until the day after Houze objected on the 15th, and his is the only docent that has the customary “entered” can’t read time and “filed” on Oct 15, 1:43 pm stamps, and where did the Rackner docs come from if not the Public File? They would have to come from somebody who is involved with the case’s private records.

  24. Sunshine_4me says:

    I notice with this latest ‘news’ and legal actions in Ky’s case, Nancy Grace and posse have been quiet on any Kyron news. I wonder if they don’t want to eat crow publicly.

    On location for MacNeill case. I was considering writing on it this week until I heard that from a producer friend.
    B

  25. Rose says:

    @vw. wrt effect of 39–RSE need go nowhere. In fact, imo Conversion relates not to him!
    This is DA’s strategy to prevent Houze Ever taking RSE’s depo, or getting his subpoenaed “documents,” which imo is vital.
    It’s not merely a matter of Cross.

    TRuth imo hit the nail on the head with this post I’m bringing forward:
    “T. Ruth says: October 17, 2013 at 1:07 pm
    ….Rackner/Engel filing that without proper time for Houze/Bunch to file a prior discovery deposition. …
    ” If the witness is potentially adverse to a party’s case, then that party should insist upon a discovery deposition prior to the 39 I deposition. ORCP 39 I(5). The Rule allows for a prior discovery deposition as a matter of right, subject to the trial court’s discretion to issue orders to protect witnesses from “annoyance, embarrassment, oppression or undue burden….” ORCP 36 C; Martin v. DHL Express, Inc., 235 Or App 503, 509, 234 P3d 997 (2010) (trial court’s refusal to allow a discovery deposition prior to 39 I deposition of a witness suffering from acute multiple sclerosis was within the trial court’s discretion pursuant to ORCP 36 C).

    For convenience sake, counsel often conduct the discovery deposition immediately prior to the 39 I deposition.
    This can be a mistake because it often will not afford sufficient time for counsel to develop a quality cross-examination before the 39 I deposition takes place.
    Therefore, a party seeking a discovery deposition should attempt to schedule it so there is sufficient time to obtain the transcript, formulate a cross-examination strategy, and decide whether additional subject areas should be noticed for perpetuation.”
    http://www.mhgm.com/our-resources/articles/The-Oregon-State-Court-Perpetuation-Deposition-Opportunities-for-the-Prepared-and-Pitfalls-for-the-Unwary

    The point is under 39, HouzeofBunch gets to do discovery of RSE first as a matter of right (had they Notice of Conversion!), then has to get the transcript & figure out their Cross & points to preserve right away before Rackner’s Conversion Depo of RSE. IfRespondent does not do regular discovery first, she never does.

    Kantor better get tutored up on this 39 procedural manoeuver Right Away, or he’ll be snookered, setting the tone for Trial. What’s sure is those who are bounced around by any case-related possible Borderlines should remember ends do not justify means, and no “wins” are worth a professional’s reputation.

    And now Houze & Bunch are on notice sneaky behavior can be expdcted throughout this case from Rackner & Engel which imo says a lot about their representations wrt Assets & Custody. Need a Special Master. Need a Guardian Ad Litem.

    TY erose for research.

    Imo Blink’s take on KH is spot on.

  26. Rose says:

    just bringing this gem forward too, because I almost didn’t read back far enough to find it:
    vw says:
    October 16, 2013 at 10:53 pm
    IMO. ….Just another way for Rackner to come full cycle…”I just want to help LE”. Just another way for Underhill to stand on the top steps and know he’s going to get Dede and James before Dy and TY are ever deposed.

    Kantor was out this week, according to Kyle’s tweet. So no hearing. But the depo was stalled.

    And an “on the books” directed testimony that will never be subject to true scrutiny via a cross-examination looks like it’s been avoided.” ….
    ….
    (B’s reply)Um, Kantor is out this week? Who thinks that was happenstance for this kerfuffle?
    Arnie Becker has nothing on Rackner. And I do believe she is the strategist here after hearing Engel’s whiney counter-effectiveness.
    …… B”
    http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-kyron-horman-investigation-exclusive-dede-spicher-interview-yields-allegations-of-illegal-steroid-use-terri-horman-took-to-police/comment-page-34/#comments
    ————-
    I had almost posted wrt Rackner that arrogance goes before a fall; and after reading JKantor is out this week, well, I can’t resist. I agree with Blink, wrt divorce she is the strategist. & it’s likely for no more reason than to “score” against Bunch wrt alimony, assets, & custody. Nothing to do with mfh or abduction.
    Perhaps she thinks this case may float her up to Stanchyk’s level?
    Unless she & Kantor are social buds, so he dropped a word about his vacation, imo she erred in trying this on Respondent’s attorneys and Judge out of the Starting Gate. Should’ve saved her professional character-revealing shot for later in the Clutch at the 10 yard line. This just tells everyone there’s an awful lot about RSE that Plaintiff does NOT want known on the Record.

  27. Rose says:

    @Blink. wrt “if I were he- I would be spending those donated funds on a parallel investigation with the first order of business to confirm information I had been given as “privileged.”

    Because he qualified donated funds for IRS non-profit tax exemption, and struggled to do so apparently having to submit revised paperwork & change his Foundation’s mission from bringing his own child home to serving other missing children, imo legally he cannot use those funds for a PI for Kyron, or really any search specific to Kyron. One can’t say he got 501c3 for public transparency, cause when last I looked on Guidestar he had no financials beyond the first year. And one could do gofundme, no strings, & still publish financials. When KH changed his BKH IRS Mission statement to generic, imo he was abandoning use of those funds for a PI. I guess the question is why?

    Yes Rose, he can. As long as it is in the approved mission statement it is fair use.
    B

  28. vw says:

    T. Ruth says:
    October 17, 2013 at 3:31 pm
    vw, thank you for the copies of the subpoena for RSE and Houzes’ responses.

    ***********

    Question, I see from the documents that RSE’s regular old deposition was to be held at Rackner/Engel offices at 2:00 p.m. October 16. No secret location.

    The original notice was sent to Houze on the 4th of October. On October 11, a Thursday,( hard-mail copy October 12) they received the change from Rackner/Engel to make the deposition one of perpetuation.

    What was Rackner/Engel trying to block? Houze has said he wanted to subpoena RSE for depo long ago. Would not Houze have been at the regular deposition of RSE? Does he no longer want to depose RSE, because he has gotten information elsewhere? Or is it that his deposition questions would have been limited in some way?

    I guess I’m still kinda’ lost as to what just happened and the why of it. Perry Mason, I am not.

    ********

    Here’s what I got, Truth, by reading that link on “perpetual depositions” that Blink and others have referred me to. Also read a few more things.

    Houze was not trying to “block” anything. Neither party mentioned RSE at the last hearing, Although HofB (to coin an acronym from Rose) got the original notice long before the hearing.
    None of the audience in the hearing knew anything about the #1 obstacle to a FAPA resolution being summoned to RackEng’s office at that time.

    How Iboshi got the news? Well, he has been seen, by me, in the file room. But I think everyone was getting ready for a long haul of depos etc. until the next hearing. My guess…he got a tip-off that the subpoena and the serving notice to HofB was in progress.

    Was this whole little “scene” a publicity stunt to again put TMH in a bad light and call attention to the MFH ONCE AGAIN, and TMH’s proclivity to wanna off those who got in her way….since that event had faded from the general public and hasn’t even been mentioned much since?

    I don’t think so. But if it was it has Underthehill raising his ugly little head again while Rees is in court declaring the state has NO INTEREST in the divorce case.

    To specifically answer your questions:

    1. Houze was only trying to “block” the perpetual deposition because of the MANNER in which it was rushed through and the lack of legal procedure followed.

    2. I am positive Houze would have wanted, poste haste, to be down at their office with a trial-ready bag of cross-evals and questions for Rudy that would end up on a PERMANENT record at the trial of the perpetual depo.

    3. Houze was going to go to the regular depo,, i’m sure. But a regular depo could be cross-examined when Rudy appears at the regular divorce trial. With a switch to a perpetual depo Rudy would not have to be there, so his depo in Rackners office would be IT.

    4. With Rackner and Engels having LE intel about what Rudy said already they have the ability to steer the perpetual depo and Houze has only 4 days to get ready for a major “trial” with Rudy with his and Bunch’s dockets already busy.

    So you’re absolutely right….Houze’s questions, cross-exams would be limited having not been prepared f or a “trial” in a sense. Because Rudy would NOT have to go to that trial even if he were excavating Rackner’s back yard at the time. His perpetual depo would stand as the ONLY testimony.

    Does this make sense? It sure didn’t to me at first, but I now see the seriousness in what Racker (Rees) was trying to pull off.

    Still…they must have known Houze would catch this. Relying on Kantor to side for them or just pulling a legal stunt to put pressure on TMH?

    IDK…but i’m beginning to think the DA really has nothing if they keep trying to pull all these games off.

  29. Rose says:

    Tweet, associated with RSE’ Amherst addr, seems to be in her upper 80s, husband Robert, son Ronald J
    http://www.veromi.com/Ron-Tweet.aspx

    perhaps they own modest rental properties?

    Son now in Damascus..apparently incorporated in 2004.

  30. Ragdoll says:

    - snipped from erose says:
    October 17, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    I do believe he is a very, very smart man and shrewd enough to harness a team to do more to find him than is being done currently, but doing so would likely lead him to the place he is trying to hide in secret for the time being.

    FriendLY, do you have some idea what this secret is, or are you basing this on a hunch? Would TMH be privy to such secret, in your opinon? Am too far gone to think blackmail is involved between Kaine (named after the very first murderer on the planet, I might add…not that he is one) and TMH?

    Fanks so much :D

    I meant he is hiding from the truth or the potential truth outcomes.
    B

  31. T. Ruth says:

    patriciamochalatte says:
    October 17, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Assuming that this David Roy Davis is linked to DY. Do any of the dates of his arrest(s?) Or possible release dates coincide with dates of potential interest? Dates such as, when DY signed over custody of her boys to their Father’s and alleged claim of moving out of country for medical purposes,

    ************

    Hi patricia, IIRC, I remember looking into this back then, and what I came up with was it was a different Desiree Young/Davidson, living in Eugene/Springfield area. IIRC, the middle initial for this person was different, not an *A*, which is Kyron’s Desiree’s. Cannot say for sure whether it’s the same Desiree or not, who knows how accurate the internet searches are? Not me. Perhaps you might be able to find a way to take this further?

  32. T. Ruth says:

    RedRose says:
    October 17, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    so….
    if they (LE, whoever) know where Rudy Sanchez-Estrada is, then it follows that Rudy would know where his wife and two kiddies are, and then it follows (If LE does the following…) would be able to track Elsey, that Elsey is within reach.

    They know where she is and the two children, just that nobody is sayin’ nuthin’

    Wonder Why?

    Has it been established the missing Elsie and children are RSE’s wife and kids?
    B

    ***************
    @RedRose:

    Why since his children and wife are missing (if they are his?) do you assume that he knows where they are? KH & DY & perhaps even TH & TY, don’t know where their child is. What if, there is some sort of drug cartel connection? (yes, steroids do come out of Mexico, just like the other illegal drugs). What if someone took those children and his wife to make him agree to testify against TH? (Funny, but I don’t think I ever even thought about that before until now.)

    @ Blink:

    Okay, correct me if I’m wrong, I thought we were told that they were NOT his wife & kids at some point here?

    They are not. I was trying to net that reminder.

    It has been a long time for me to read my own work again. I did so this morning.

    Let me tell you why- in an obtuse way. A family member of a case I worked on personally for several months of a missing person was recently contacted as a result of certain credentials I applied for. In short, the feedback following their interview reminded me of something that I feel has gotten very lost in this case.

    The very beginning:
    http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/comment-page-3/

    I wrote this prior to the infamous sting.

    In my training I have been taught that to my a good investigative analyst you must be willing to scrap everything and start over if the evidence leads from your theory. Facts for theory, not the opposite.

    In the case I referenced above, which resulted in the person’s recovery after the area had been searched 11 times in 2 years, was really solved because I started at the beginning and would never listen to anyone who said.. LE went over this, or LE that.. and in this case I am being vague because as you can imagine I am not the poster child for this agency, but I was able to develop a very, very compelling piece of evidence I was able to analyze forensically, which led to the individual. The prosecution phase of the case is still open so I wont comment on any questions or specifics.

    I just kept going back to the beginning, and there it was.
    B

  33. erose says:

    Thank you, Blink.

    erose says:
    October 17, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    WRT KH, are we saying he seized an opportunity to get rid of his wife, or are we saying he’s involved?

    If that is to me erose, I in no way believe Kaine is involved in the disappearance of his son.
    I do believe he is a very, very smart man and shrewd enough to harness a team to do more to find him than is being done currently, but doing so would likely lead him to the place he is trying to hide in secret for the time being.

    B

  34. erose says:

    Cancel my epiphany. I confused David Roy Davis with the last name Davidson.

    erose says:
    October 17, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh…when DY refers to Richard Davidson (btw Kyron’s middle name) as Kyron’s grandfather (which I assumed to be her stepfather) he was really once her father-in-law.

    I thought it was her Step Dad? Kelly and the brother are step-siblings I believe.

    Not “defining” the relationship here, just being factual ( until I am corrected, lol, but that is what I thought)
    B

  35. erose says:

    I know people have varying opinions of KH and his possible involvement in his son’s abduction. It’s just that I am trying to reconcile the profile of SZ, of a lone opportunistic offender with the dysfunctional family. WTH is KH hiding that would supersede finding his son? It makes me want to eliminate the lone SZ and turn towards the family for answers, especially since they are not releasing the information about Kyron leaving with a man. I know they think this man was an agent of TH, but reasonably this type/profile man is dangerous in his own way as well. “Why don’t they release this,” she asked rhetorically.

  36. Amys Sister says:

    erose says: (snipped) I know they think this man was an agent of TH, but reasonably this type/profile man is dangerous in his own way as well. “Why don’t they release this,” she asked rhetorically.
    _______

    I’m hoping the reason is because they believe they know who he is or are close and don’t want to lose him like they did David Durham. If I were being totally honest, though, I think it’s a lot more complicated than that. To have a complete shut down of information regarding SZ to this degree borders bizarre.

    I believe Ky was last seen with the SZ, but I believe SZ was seen after that without him, or he has a perceived solid alibi.
    B

    Not releasing a sketch is not okay. Wherever SZ is children are at risk.

    Blink, is it possible LE isn’t convinced Kyron left with a man? That maybe Kyron was seen back in the school after he went out to help this male?

  37. lyla says:

    “I believe Ky was last seen with the SZ, but I believe SZ was seen after that without him, or he has a perceived solid alibi.
    B”
    ——————————————————————–
    My thoughts keep going back to Kaine’s high school friend MC and his relationship with TH after Ky went missing. Was there ever a composite submitted to LE (not released to the public) of the perp by Ms. Matthews after she okayed Ky to walk out the door with him to help bring in a project? My heart of hearts tells me the MCSO may have another suspect in addition to the “defacto” TH.

  38. Nelmel says:

    erose says:
    October 18, 2013 at 12:25 am

    Thank you, Blink.

    erose says:
    October 17, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    WRT KH, are we saying he seized an opportunity to get rid of his wife, or are we saying he’s involved?

    If that is to me erose, I in no way believe Kaine is involved in the disappearance of his son.
    I do believe he is a very, very smart man and shrewd enough to harness a team to do more to find him than is being done currently, but doing so would likely lead him to the place he is trying to hide in secret for the time being.

    B
    =================================================================

    Confused. So totally confused by your last sentence.

  39. Rose says:

    Kudos grasshopper re “on Oct 15, 1:43 pm stamps, and where did the Rackner docs come from if not the Public File? They would have to come from somebody who is involved with the case’s private records”
    This Judge needs to stop one party playing “hudd our Motions, but you can fax to press” Does he want public confidence in his case management or nit?

  40. Rose says:

    hide our Motions…

  41. Rose says:

    @Blink, well then he should,

    But, if he can it is likely, given Rackgel’s apparent divorce trial theories (TH sought to conspire on a mfh on father and did abduct Kyron), he is already using those funds to pay a PI as arranged by his attorneys. Because it is arguable investigating Terri is investigating missing Kyron. Wonder what his 501c3 tax returns will show on 2013-14 expenditures then. Will it be public?

  42. T. Ruth says:

    So an unknown man walks into a school….. (why does this sound like joke?)

    1. unknown man walks into a school
    2. unknown man asks Kyron to help him retrieve something from his vehicle
    3. unknown man and Kyron are seen outside in (south?) park lot next to a white pickup
    4. kyron is never seen again
    5. unknown man is seen back inside school??

    Firt questiosn, is there verification in the timeline that #2 was before #3? Or do we know for sure?

    Did unknown man put Kyron in a vehicle driven by someone else?

    OR, did unknown man somehow incapacitate Kyron in the parking lot and put him in a trunk or something? Wouldn’t someone of have noticed an altercation of any kind going on? Seems like there must have been another person in a vehicle to intercept Kyron, if in fact unknown man came back into school.???

  43. T. Ruth says:

    vw, thanks for the post on the 39I. Interesting thoughts. I think you mis-read my post though, I asked what was Rackner/Engel trying to “block*, by changing the original deposition to the I39, not Houze/Bunch. (I know, too many players in this! LOL)

    Kaine’s attorneys scheduled the depo of RSE on October 4. Well, when they scheduled that, they knew darn well, Houze would be there and next in line with questions for RSE. I don’t think Rackner/Engel didn’t know that for one minute. So…what happened between October 4 & 11 when Kaine’s attorney’s tried to change it to an 39I? That’s my question. And did they not think that Houze would object to that? They had to know this, this is what I don’t get.

    Almost sounds like something happened during that time period. Just me, but I don’t think it was just because Kantor was out of town (if he was). Kaine’s attorneys had to known Houze would be on top of that, wouldn’t they?

    I’m wondering of RSE is under some sort of witness protection program and perhaps Rackner/Engel did not know that until after they subpoenaed him. Just curious stuff going on.

  44. erose says:

    @TRuth, re:unknown man. Sounds like Blink is saying the man is known. More like the man has an alibi.

  45. grasshopper says:

    @TRuth
    I think it was Rose who suggested that when judge finally insisted that DA file to intervene, they couldn’t count on him to quash subpoena of RS and this was the only way to stall it. Since Houze requested an emergency hearing then I presume that the repo was postponed tho who knows. Can’t help but wonder if K’s team never wanted RS deposed, assumed it would be quashed by DA, so were forced to take desperate measures. still, all this does is stall. surely judge will not let the perpetuity thing go ahead with this violation of the rules.

    Witness protection is an interesting notion. Either he is about to enter one, and would that be because he was allegedly approached about a MFH in which no money was exchanged and no hit was attempted? Seems a pretty low bar for witness protection if you ask me. or is he already in witness protection, RS his fake name, and he made himself way too conspicuous by coming forward with this stuff. After all, as someone else pointed out, he did not inform police when he was allegedly approached. He did not warn Kaine. He only told when they started investigating Terri.

    He is not in WITSEC.
    B

  46. erose says:

    reference post for my last comment.

    Amys Sister says:
    October 18, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    snip>
    I believe Ky was last seen with the SZ, but I believe SZ was seen after that without him, or he has a perceived solid alibi.
    B

  47. RedRose says:

    WTH?? Priority Lead #6 (BlinkLink below)
    The baby Kiara, was not with Terri and Kyron that morning.

    What is THAT all about? I thought Terri was driving the baby around because of an earache and even went to look for meds for the baby? (It would explain why the lady she talked to at one of the Freddy’s didn’t see the baby) Didn’t the Moultons leave the night before?

    WHO was watching the baby?
    Anybody know??

    Was Kaine at home?? Where was HE?

    @. Ruth says: October 17, 2013 at 11:26 pm

    BlinkLink:The very beginning:
    http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/comment-page-3/

    That has since been updated, Kiara was with her.
    B

  48. Rose says:

    @TRuth. imo what happened is JKantor told DA to file a Motion to Intervene in order to prevent or
    limit the scope of any depos JKallowed to go forwaed. Then he went on vacation.
    This 39I tactic is multifaceted in origin. Made necessary since DA is out of the room during the depo.
    1) eliminate TMH’s independent depo of State’s witness RSE & pertinent records (ie cell) altogether.
    2) limit the scope, limit impeachments of his credibility.
    3) prevent Trier of Fact at Trial personal observance of the witness (DVD no substitute) at Trial (nonverbal affect etc).
    . Imo therefore he is a weak witness in person, with credibility problems.
    There are probably 10 more tactical reasons, but not imo witness protection.
    The only hides being protected work for the Gov’t, and then of course RSE’s & Kaine’s.
    Certainly not done to protect Kiara or find Kyron.
    And Blink, can you divulge who held his truck lien yet?

    Rose- I don’t think I can verify a great deal of Mr. Sanchez Estrada’s endeavors.
    B

  49. Rose says:

    @@TRuth. I think Blink has not suggested SZ is “unknown.” Rather that he is “unidentified.”
    But he could have been a parent, attenuated relative, or Fair worker and did return & was seen.
    I wish a Skyline parent had confirmed whether, and if so, who, from Solar For Schools, Bonneville Power,
    was there doing a demonstration of solar or a project that Fair morning, or other days.
    We know their team went into
    classrooms & did actual teaching sessions about the grant project with the children.
    Keefer should’ve had the names
    of all those grant-related employees in the classrooms or at the Fair.

  50. A Texas Grandfather says:

    The more we learn the more confusion we see. I am beginning to think that there may be as many as three cases involving one or two persons that are common to all of them.

    The DA, LE and courts have given a lot of help to Kaine Horman in the divorce case and the missing child case. The big questions to me are why does Kaine get this advantage and not Terri? What information does Kaine have that makes this happen? Maybe a third question is does Kaine have some information on some of the officers of the court and LE regarding bad behavior?

    All of this goes back to my earlier position that the missing child case should be removed from the jurisdiction of the county and turned over to a state agency with help from the FBI.

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