Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued ©
S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime
DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman
In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher, she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court. Unofficially cleared, that is.
Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley, who have since refused all local media requests, would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.
Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide. While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously, her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.
As was proven not only by her recent polygraph, but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place, Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.
The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.
Stoy: So, in your estimation then, why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.
Spicher: I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons. I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with. He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc. I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name. As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order, she was also told that
Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that? I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.
Spicher: No. I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th. I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.
Stoy: ok, sorry, continue. So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?
Spicher: They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding. It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June, and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March. So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?
To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.
Stoy: Which was?
Spicher: At first, I think that they really believed I was involved, and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was, and my vehicle never left, nor did I. They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.
Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case, they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?
Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect. I never felt that way, but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever, but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.
Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?
Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did. To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning. I would ask like who do you mean, because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this. I was scared and it turned out it was good reason. I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.
Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice? Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that. People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies. I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative. In fact, Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly. So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.
Spicher: (laughs) Interesting. I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.
Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?
Spicher: No, do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?
Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?
Spicher: I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house. Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.
Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?
Spicher: That’s it, yes, him. Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?
Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through, and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you. If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information, I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?
Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.
Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back , considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work? What did your attorney say when you told him?
Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney, but to answer your question as to my opinion, I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction. After more thought, and other conversations, I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible. What is your opinion on it?
Stoy: I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece. Again, not wanting to temper your opinions as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did. Is that ok with you?
Spicher: Sure, thank you.
Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion. I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman. Is that correct?
Spicher: Correct, ok.
Stoy: Did they ask you this?
Spicher: Who is they? You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).
Stoy: Fair point, you’re right. The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor. Allow me to rephrase please. Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?
Spicher: Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?
Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?
Spicher: (laughs) touche’ . I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids. I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.
Stoy: Why shock you?
Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing” and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well, impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.
Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct? That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc. And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?
Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury. But yes, that is what she told me. I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her. To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement . I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case, but yes, they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are. But that is my assumption.
Stoy: Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home? Spicher: I am not sure about the exclusive use part, I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.
Stoy: Ok. Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory. By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.
Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.
Stoy: How would you know that?
Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request. She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids. I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.
Stoy: ok, understood, we will get back to that. I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.” Do you recall what year, even ballpark.
Spicher: I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005, and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.
Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine, I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help. Do you remember where you were during the conversation.
Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell, Terri had a lot of drama, and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know, we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.
Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?
Spicher: Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention. It was either during that call or at the lunch. Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.
Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?
Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.
Stoy: Got it. What did she say
Spicher: She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”. She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her. She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller. The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him. I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.
Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from? Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?
SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.
Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person? Sort of like… she gets approval to remain anonymous, she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?
Spicher: Yes, something like that. Except and again, we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out. The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact. From what I recall, I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.
Stoy: Understood, so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day, but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.
Spicher: Yes, I think so.
Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice. I don’t think so because she did not ask for any. So then what? Did Kaine find out?
Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy, and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day. If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember, that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.
Stoy: Ok. Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?
Spicher: Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed, it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing. She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office. We did.
Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what? Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served, in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le, but it would surprise me. Terri was always very family centric. She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing, this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.
Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: No, not at all.
Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?
Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper. He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.
Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting” and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”
Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.
Stoy: She specifically said the FBI, who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.
Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.
Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?
Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?
Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?
It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years. The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier. As a strong argument for the trickle down effect, Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle, was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report. A former Sheriff, Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications. The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place. Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.
In fact, Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.
MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.
The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell. O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.
There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.
In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week, it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.
It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan, the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.
Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.
After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption tipping other’s off in the alleged ring , Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso, Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested. The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike. The specifics of which were sealed by the court. It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.
Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids? How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?
“… Jackson, through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”
“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest. He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”
On June 3rd, 2010, approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance, Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.
From the Indictment:
Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden. Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products. Worden has never been charged.
Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and
841(b)( 1)(E).
The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).
The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin, a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.
According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.
From Buff To Puff
In contrast to Jackson, although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement, William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon” cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.
In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote, “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”
Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way. Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client, was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.
John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case, sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well. Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question. Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason. The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.
“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”
Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.
Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.
On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.
Andrew Millbrooke filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby, Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot. In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy. The suit is pending. A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion. Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].
With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against Traverso were dismissed this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.
Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation. Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.
As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .
Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.
However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids, but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.
“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.
“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.
He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.
At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”
S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.
The source, an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…” “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…” The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.
Reached for comment, Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.
A request for comment to Mr. Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.
More Questions Than Answers..
Following several hours of interviews with DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?
Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.
She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”
She was not.
Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself. Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.
Through Spicher, Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness” which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc, Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th. His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.
Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought. Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.
Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous. Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom, to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.
To her knowledge, there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.
In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.
Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:
“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”
Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators. One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer, at their own expense The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.
“… This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.
The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”
I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange. She had. I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.
Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion. Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.
I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home. She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.
Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?
Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.
Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper? I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen, and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.
Spicher: No, it wasn’t. Kaine bought it. It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property. I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home. I mean, like cleaning the gutters, cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing. To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.
Stoy: With a baby, 7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that? No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help. I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.
Spicher: No, Terri had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children. I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money. I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage. One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that. I believe the other was the landscaper.
Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.
Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that? But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.
Stoy: Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?
Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].
Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement. Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you. Are you angry about that?
Spicher: O my no. That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine. I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can.. I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them. I really pray that Kyron will be found, I choose to put my energy into hope for that.
Pending Matters
Through Attorney Bunch, Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday, Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.
Early this afternoon, a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.
A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013
Jacqueline Beaufort, Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.
Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.
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January says:
November 17, 2013 at 4:19 pm
I was surprised to hear how quickly Kaine had been deposed. I wonder who else has.
——
True dat. I was startled in fact, when in the middle of yet another Engel’s justification for the protection order and and LE intervention, Bunch says rather flately that the depo already took place.
Aren’t Kaine’s peeps talkin’ to Engel’s? Or Underthehill’s?
For the myriad of reader/posters that are thinking that because vw used the phrases “True dat” and “peeps” that it is me, it is not, lol.
B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2uyYtZiIyI
Then she called 911 when lawnschmuck shows up with his extortiontractor. Calls 911 later when she realizes her daughter has been ripped from her home, after who knows what she was told about Rudeny.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-kyron-horman-investigation-exclusive-dede-spicher-interview-yields-allegations-of-illegal-steroid-use-terri-horman-took-to-police/comment-page-52/#comments
LOL- have your sound on folks. Thanks for the giggle erose.
B
@TRuth. Looks like you & Seeker are on the same page.
Good interp imo.
@TRuth. Thank you for taking the time to put forward all Kaine’s statements on the emails.
I think on Dr F, KH was referring to what he did not know preabduction (hatred, emails, etc).
@vw. that was an all-inclusive “ourselves,” meaning me too as I set off to find who was on the Family Bench & the special Domestic Violence Bench at the time, and how codified DV procedures were (very). Having originally assigned to Judge M, the Sr Judge on the DV Panel, McKnight avoiding a colleague of Svetsky is no explanation at all wrt Judge 2. I believe Kantor asked for this case. idk why, but he stands out from the other judges for his business partner & investments, and his political relationships dependence, likely wanting another shot at the Federal bench. My guess is a political tie dropped a hint to both McKnight & Kantor.
I think Kaine’s words below have been quoted already, however, it is interesting to note that after the discussion re the hateful emails, the interview continues and another email is discussed which is not one of the hateful emails. It’s a little tricky to keep all these details straight, especially when “I can’t talk about that” keeps popping up here and there.
GraceintheHills says:
November 17, 2013 at 11:47 am
Kaine was definitely shown the so called hateful emails, just as DY was. Here is the link to the transcript of his interview posted by BeanE on Websleuths:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5828811
If one does not trust BeanE, I am sure the videoclip is still on line.
@Grace- I remember the video and it was exactly as you said and linked in your post quoted above. I think I remember it so well because I must have watched it 10 or 12 times looking for various things.
(snipped)
Reporter: Have you seen the emails that are being talked about where Terri allegedly talks about hurting Kyron?
Kaine: Yeah, well, I, I’ve seen them. Yes.
Reporter: What is in those emails?
Kaine: I’m not gonna talk about it. It’s information that’s supposed to be confidential to the investigation, and…
Reporter: Did they only solidify your belief that Terri’s responsible?
Kaine: Everything that we see moving forward just adds to the pile.
Show the April 6 email to a friend (not one from LE shown Kaine/Desi) obtained by KATU.
[Mbs says: I assume what this means is the next part of the interview is about an email that was not one of the emails Desiree referred to, therefore his response is not about that content or whether there was hateful language.]
Reporter: Is there any truth to what she said?
Kaine: Oh I don’t think so at all. She’s the one who approaches me about, hey can you help me with getting my diet dialed in because I feel like I’m out of shape and stuff like that so I help her, and then what does she do? She turns around and tells people that it’s me saying she’s fat.
Reporter: I’ve heard everything from that Terri was mad at Desiree, Terri was mad at you, Terri was angry with Kyron. What’s the reality?
Kaine: The reality is we don’t know.
I guess we will have to agree on this one thing- Kaine did not respond to, nor did he indicate those emails established TMH capable of murdering his son. So why would DY?
B
@Grace. I absolutely do not think the mfh was “a ruse cooked up by LE.”
Frankly the Major Cty Crimes Team was not that creative/smart.
I think a mfh proposition from TH to RSE was his (not LE’s) distracting
explanation/accusation—proferred by RSE after TMH pointed LE in his direction.
And a mysogenous deputy with a chequered job past, revolving around Wife 1
& her paramour, and a mysogenous
(SP is wrong I know, but I’ve banned spellcheck)
spouse were comfortable with RSE’s storyline.
@mom 44
Thanks for the play-by-play. I think you got it
In the end, you state Kaine states this:
“kaine continues: there was alot of things that were happing in life and i spent alot of my time focused on my kids and myjob and I didnt focus on her end in that I definitely should have spent more time but
also with hindsight in the discussion ive had with other people…most nrmal people arent invested in their spouse on a day to day basis…”
IMO…he did NOT spend a lot of time “focused” on his kids other than posing for the obiligitory photos. He wasn’t the one teaching and working out the problems and issues. Never, once, have I heard him talk in length about the real issues the kids were facing. He was an “observer” in Kyron’s education. He trailed the fam to the outings. He hadn’t a clue as to James HS school issues. He never once spoke of going to a teacher-parent conference and contributing. Or to a soccer game for Kyron. Why do you think he states, over and over and over how he “tied Kiara’s shoes” and “told Kyron how proud he was” of him. No other stories? Like many men involved with polishing his body, extra-curricular activities and career, he was not involved with his family…other than monitoring, minutely, ever penny spent and accounted for.
In regards to TMH…his statement that he wasn’t “investigating her daily” is no justification. It merely means, IMO, that he had no interest in her….that the sexy woman he’d fallen for was now a “housewife trying to use every penny wisely” and had become a dull-drum.
Why else would he state that “I thought we would have been divorced before Kyron went missing”?
peace…and thanks again for the intense look at the vid.
If you are not interested in Portland Public Schools, please feel free to skip to the next post.
Rose says:
November 14, 2013 at 12:14 pm
Waiting for mbs, but I cannot imagine a County (in any of the States I know) like Multnomah, an aspiring urban metropolitan city hosting Intel, hiring as District Supt a 23 year Principal of a local alternative PRIVATE school; one who lacked experience in several public school districts; one who had K-3 instruction nailed; one who had previously been a Supt elsewhere in a County however small successfully; and after a token nationwide search.
@Rose – sorry to have kept you waiting for so long.
I could write a book on PPS starting in the mid-1980’s, but it wouldn’t help our purpose here. I’ll do my best with the space I’m given.
I taught for years in Beaverton. When I became a counselor, I moved to PPS because I wanted to be where I was needed the most, not just write college recommendations. I found what I was looking for, and then some. Counselors met regularly districtwide and worked with administrators and counselors from other levels on a variety of projects.
In the 80’s, and who knows how far back, there was a “good ol’ boy” network of administrators that actually had more power than the superintendent. It wasn’t the greatest way to run a school district, but the people I knew did what they did for their schools and the students – sort of the Robin Hood method of making things work. Most of them worked their tails off for very little recognition or financial gain, but they kept the district going in very tough times. For example, if you wanted more money for your school, you didn’t withdraw the students who were no shows until after the cutoff for head counts.
Gradually, all that changed. Key people retired, budgets were cut so much there wasn’t much incentive to play the game anymore. The focus switched to particular kinds of test measurements, etc. and they wanted superintendents who could provide a quick fix with very little money. IMO, most board members were in over their heads with the sorts of problems public schools were heading for. A series of at least 3 superintendents came next – poorly chosen, poorly prepared, not invested in long term improvement – and all managed to make some of the worst decisions I have ever had to work under. There were broken promises and outright lies. IMO, the most disrespectful and poorest performance came from Diana Snowden who was married to ex-Gov. Neil Goldschmidt who has been mentioned here several times. She was chosen because she did NOT have an education background and the Board thought she could fix the district in a year. It was an extremely painful time for many very dedicated staff and even for students. I promise you I could have picked 10 highly capable students from my high school and organized them to do a better job running the district than what resulted during these years.
I understood why the Board finally chose the current superintendent. They were looking for someone who knew “the flock”, so to speak, who acted with integrity, didn’t have an ego bigger than the district, had ideas for dealing with kids who were not on a typical path to graduation, whose work was generally respected, who could gain parent/community confidence quickly, etc.
The problem really is that for all the kids in alternative programs, there are probably 5x as many (maybe more) still in regular classrooms who have the same or greater needs, but no resources and assistance to help them, plus class sizes increasing over and over. I sent students to her program – I know why it worked for many of them and why regular high school did not. I also know what happened with many of the kids who couldn’t get in.
There are 2 things (in addition to the obvious things everybody writes about) that I know would make a huge difference to students – and frankly, I don’t care about anybody else. One is to restore the after school activities that we lost decades ago – things like clubs and choir and marching band and Future Teachers of America and the Native American support group and newspaper, and on and on. These things kept students attached to the school and invested in learning. It was part of school life. Sponsors and groups received a small amount of extra money which the district no longer had. Non-profits and volunteer attempts to fill the gaps simply couldn’t.
The second thing would be to get rid of the universal idea that you have to finish high school in 4 years or less. Take away the social stigma of a 5th year – and be willing to finance it either between middle and high school or between high school and community college for those who need it. PPS used to allow kids to continue until they earned enough credits or turned 21 (state law). But ages 21 and 15 don’t mix very well and older kids were encouraged to go to night school and other places to finish. It’s a big headache to try to get accurate statistics for the number of kids who do end up earning their diploma at a later date. Given the personal and family problems so many of my students had, I think it is disrespectful and sad not to honor them just as much as those who made the deadline. (Just to be clear, I did not work in an alternative school.)
Anyway – I hope that helps with why the district chose the current superintendent. It made sense at the time. In some ways it still does, but she needs a lot more support than I suspect she has.
IMO, there is no way the emails expressing hatred of Kyron are being faked by LE.
There are entire binders of evidence with many LE hands having gone through them. Is each of the officers lying about their existence or making up phony Terri hate emails?
There are multiple emails that came from multiple witnesses. Are each of these witnesses also lying?
We were discussing the “hateful” emails DY referenced and spoke very publicly about. I don’t believe they were fake. I would argue that they were either highly interpreted or subjective in content. Potentially, manipulated for investigative purposes. If these correspondence(s) were authenticated and damning as to motive as it were, I strongly believe TMH would have been indicted and this case treated as a no body prosecution. We know we have a dismissed grand jury, and allegedly an empaneled and extended one. Their is now a 5th lead detective assigned to this case in 3 1/2 years. I can tell you as a point of fact via very strong sources that the DA is livid at the errors made in this case and I have no idea why they have not pulled it from MCSO.
One Name: Chad Grunander.
I am not sure what other emails you refer to, but I dont know of anyone suggesting everyone is faking emails wrt to TMH. I will say this- as my friends/fam will atest- I am the queen of obscure subject headers to get my emails read promptly, lol. Same with BOC staff if there is an urgent need and off the grid so to speak ( not subject to subpoena). I had a rude and immature nickname for a defense attorney representing the other side of a case subject and god forbid if that woman, who was just doing her job- and WELL I might add, came up missing, within an email or 2, I honestly wonder if I might have gotten a call for an interview, lol. Inappropriate, yes, but I am human, and I deal with death, horrific acts and depravity like 12 hours a day- interjecting levity is a coping mechanism for me- but someone reading on the outside may see it differently. This what I am getting at- There is a reason email content is rarely “smoking gun” evidence.
Blaming LE for a faked MFH and fake emails and setting Terri up and playing the bios against one another, etc… Way too out there for me.
For the record, Tony was speaking as a step parent about his beloved stepson. He was not speaking as an officer of the law. Everyone has gut reactions and instincts and if Terri was acting suspicious and changing her story and whining about failed polys then my gut would have been saying she probably had something to do with it, too.
AS- I heart you big, big as you know. But you can’t say “for the record” on someone else’s behalf. You can say, for the record it is my opinion…
There is no such thing as a LEO taking off that “hat”. In fact, DY really stated that the reason so many agencies were brought in was due to that fact. I do not agree with her, and that is partly because of some things I have written about that were occurring simultaneously and some I have not. For me, the best example of TY “opinion” was during the press conf where he spoke, and then during the dateline interview. “If not Terri, than who?” That logic is very sound in conjunction with a few other things he said which are basic LE training like the “smell test”, which in the Fed world is trained as normal and natural.
On June 5th she complained that everyone in the blogs were blaming her. Less than 24 hours after Kyron disappeared she’s reading blogs and reading into them that everyone is blaming her? That’s weird!
AS- I respectfully disagree. TMH was fielding FB messages to put out flyers and the like, she was being hounded by the media. I can tell you unequivocally, that is who directed her to any blameblogs. It is the way they think they can get someone to comment when they have been asked to. I want this issue to be perfectly clear- TMH was told by LE NOT to speak to the media and that doing so would hamper the investigation. Even then, she participated in, and signed off on the infamous “flyer” which really was put to her as a way to validate her movements that morning. I recall getting that flyer and realizing it was photoshopped and the exif data embedded. That is a hot mess.
Terri’s own father and Dede’s lawyer thought Terri would likely be arrested. People generally don’t think that if they believe the person is innocent, even if LE is questioning them and acting like they are guilty. Most folks would think, “LE is just trying to rule her out. She’s innocent so I can’t imagine she’ll be arrested.”
Terri was told she was facing arrest. Flat out threatened with it. I cant comment on Chad Stavely for obvious reasons- except to say that I am quite sure at that point he believed TMH was facing arrest and who could blame him based on what his client was subject to when he said that. I want to say that I authored a piece announcing an arrest was imminent at the time, because every source and every detail was gearing that way. Imo, this has everything to do with what happened with the first grand jury. On a personal note, as I have stated before- from an investigational perspective ( and those LEA that are trained in interview and interrogation, formally know this) TMH behavior and actions are consistent with a truthful target- not a deceptive one. 70% of offenders who ultimately confess and have “true” verdicts do not ever tell family or friends they are even being interviewed by LE until post arrest. I’ll defer to the rest of my prior examples on the subject.
Unless her behavior is suspicious.
Everyone must be lying except Terri who really has nothing to say at all? I don’t blame her. When she was talking everything she said was off the wall weird and unfitting to the situation. It really is better for her to keep her mouth shut, IMO.
I think TMH would love nothing more than to be able to speak her mind, truly.
I do agree with you she has exhibited disassociated behavior, and likely has flawed coping mechanism strategies if any at all. That said- I am reminded that DY has recently been her biggest asset in defense of that thought.
On Fillwallet- DY stated that on a few occasions when Kaine was away, that TMH called her because Kyron was upset- presumably inconsolable. She called her on behalf of Kyron to pick him up. She stated that she “went and picked him up” and that he never said and TMH never said what upset him. So TMH had an issue with Kyron, resolved it by calling DY and apparently did not throw the little boy under the bus as to the root cause or complain about him or his behavior issue. I will be straight here. I don’t believe that actually happened. At least not the way DY portrayed it, but I do not. It is an approximately 4 1/2- 5 hour trip ONE WAY from DY house to Hormans. Kaine stated he knew nothing about that on the show. I do not believe for 10 seconds that in his situation he would be dishonest about that, but I do believe DY would say something in an attempt to elicit a response from TMH. This is also extremely incongruent with DY earlier interviews and comments that she felt Ky was happy and well cared for.
To the question, Did you think Terri was a good Mother to Kyron?
She responded, …” Not that she could replace me, but yes, I did…”
Not trying to change your perspective- but hopefully giving you some of that learning experience you referenced, lol.
B
tiny says:
November 16, 2013 at 5:54 pm
Yes, I’m a local. Yes, people truly believe Terri is so evil that the mere suggestion that maybe she either isn’t involved or isn’t the primary results in incredulity. I get the 3rd eye look suggesting Terri is innocent, I get some thought to other possibilities when I suggest that I am not claiming Terri is innocent I am merely claiming she didn’t remove him from Skyline.
There are two reasons for this. IMO. The first is that the day he went missing my peer group had same age children at a neighborhood elementary too. The idea that Terri was responsible removed all fear that our children could be snatched. The evil stepmom has an odd appeal to drama spinners(of all peer groups, not just those with young kids) and grows and grows with the narrative coming out of LE and the grieving natural parents.
________
That may be true in part. It could also be that the local parents have weighed the information released and simply believe based on logical thought processes that it is very likely Terri is involved.
AS-
I truly believe that most locals believe that TMH is complicit in Kyron’s disappearance because:
1. “last seen” announcement and flyer.
2. During interviews of key witnesses, some LE flat out told parents she was, and not to worry- this is an isolated incident.
3. The mfh sting and subsequent RO.
4. The civil tort
5. DY and Kaine’s assertions she is.
6. LE as well as SS not releasing info about SZ.
7. News market saturation with no resolution breeds disinterest in new info.
8. TMH will not speak to the press, and will continue to assert her 5th ammendment privilege. The translation for the layperson is that innocent people should not have anything to protect.
9. LE interventions and ability to protect key information exculpatory to TMH.
10. It is unfathomable for most that LE could be wrong, or be content with TMH as the POI or defacto suspect until it blew up, as they build a case against another individual.
B
“They are blaming me in the blogs. I just want to scream,” she wrote in one e-mail to a KATU News source the day after her stepson, Kyron Horman, vanished from Skyline School during a science fair. Investigators say Terri Horman was the last person to see the missing boy.
“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic – had to been 300 people running around – no coordination.”
The reference to her daughter’s doctor visit was not mentioned again in a follow-up e-mail sent later that day.
“I didn’t just drop him off, I spent time with him, took pictures and he was in safe hands I thought as I watched him walk down the hall.
“Kids saw him after I left. Teacher put him as absent at 10am. Someplace between 9-10 is when we think it happened.
“I have a receipt showing I was checking out at Fred Meyer 7 miles away at 9:12am. I went to another FM looking for meds for Kitty they didn’t have at the first FM. Then I was trying to get Kitty to sleep in the truck for a few minutes, but no go, so off to the gym at 11:20. Out at 12:20. Home at 12:45. Kaine home at 2. Bus at 3:30. That was my day – they keep asking me. Now on my 5th interview with them.”
(snip)
The information in the email contradicts what multiple sources have told KATU News. In the days before the science fair, Terri Horman informed Kyron Horman’s teacher he had the appointment that day, June 4, which is why no one expected he would be in class and was marked absent.
Meanwhile on Monday, an acquaintance of Terri Horman said she was very upset in the weeks leading up to her stepson’s disappearance. Terri Horman had told her friend her husband, Kaine Horman, was making her teenage son move out of the couple’s home.
(snip)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/100415079.html
So, wait, she claims she’s been interviewed five times in less than 24 hours? Plus she’s had time to read and evaluate blogs? And she has time to write lengthy emails to news outlets? All while a search is going on for her missing son and there’s a house full of people plus a baby to care for?
Are the multiple witnesses quoted in the above article about Kyron’s doctor appointment lying along with LE and the witnesses who provided hateful emails about Kyron? I mean, Terri complained to an acquaintance that Kaine was making James leave their home months after James had already moved out.
She really may be a pathological liar.
Oh, and she actually clocked into the gym at 11:39, not 11:20 as she wrote in the second email to KATU. Not that it matters singularly but the totality of her behavior and statements in comparison to what is going on around her is high strangeness not just that day but in the weeks that followed.
Meanwhile, her stepson is missing and there is an investigation into his disappearance.
Correction: Terri’s emails were not written to KATU. They were written to a source who leaked them to KATU.
If that does not outline “an orchestrated campaign,” what does?
Some elements (like TH sticking with 5th & foregoing seeing K) were absolutely
predictable once she hired Houze. Hooray for the Banks attorney/family
friend btw.
I would add a number 11 to Blink’s post above, and that would be TY’s statements made to the public about his opinion of Terri’s guilt. What parent in Skyline School or any other school being told by police that you don’t have to worry about your own child, because Terri did it, would not want to believe that theory? The locals, IMO gave a huge sigh of relief when LE (including Officer Young, more than once) told them that Terri did it.
June 26, Dateline airing, filmed IDK when:
TONY YOUNG: I absolutely believe that Terri Horman is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance.
DESIREE YOUNG: And I do, too.
KATE SNOW: With help? Did someone help her?
Advertise
DESIREE YOUNG: ***We don’t have any evidence that indicates that, but we personally think that’s the case.***
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38420266/
July 6, 2010:
Tony Young:
**“What’s been in the media up to this point**, I think that can be checked (and) you can connect the dots yourself,” he said. “If you’re a reasoning person you can come to your own opinion about that.”
Morning of November 12, 2010, on Today show, as an prelude to the “missing” November 12, 2010 Dateline show.
TY: “If she’s not a suspect in this, then, who is?”
http://www.today.com/id/26184891/#40148378
*****************
How do we know she is the ***only*** suspect? We do not. We have no idea who has and has not been cleared in this case. LE has not told us the results of anyone’s LDT’s. (Not Terri’s, not Dede’s, not Kaine’s, not Desiree’s, not Tony’s.) Terri was the one who said she was told by LE that she failed. So what? That is a tactic. They can also tell people they passed, when they did not, in order to watch them without them being suspect of being watched.
Tony Young was pointing fingers at her the night he got to their home. Desiree Young was pointing fingers at Terri before she even arrived in Portland.
We do know that they have focused on Terri Horman, that however, does not mean they haven’t focused on others as well? Can LE have the wrong man/woman? Of course, it happens all the time. It’s been three plus years, LE has not been able to connect the dots to Terri, or she’d be in jail. That is a simple reasonable view in my lens. Can they still be right in suspecting Terri, until someone else is proven guilty, I would guess they can.
I wish we had some dots to connect, because I have no idea what TY was referring to that had been released to media that would allow us to do so. Which is why all of us are still here and questioning everything. I think Tony’s question is poignant, if not Terri, then who?
Sound observation T. Ruth
B
Perhaps the point of LE showing Desiree & Tony the hateful emails, was to absolutely divide and conquer the two bios. If so, that worked. How do we know that one of them or all three of them, are not still crossed of LE’s list because of perhaps unaccounted for time? We don’t. We have not been made privy to any of their timelines. We just found out something new about Kaine’s, that he went to the gym early that morning. Funny, it took 3 years for that little tidbit to surface. In fact, how much of Terri’s timeline that we know of came from LE?
LE’s silence in this case should be telling us something, I just don’t know what. Could be as simple as there is nothing to tell us, or it could be they are waiting for someone to make a crucial mistake.
I think if Terri Horman turns out to be innocent in this, LE has to release more information or they will never find Kyron. JMO
Rose, I think your theory re RSE could be spot on. Never considered it happening this way, but considering their past (TMH/RSE) I’m sure there is no love-lost between them. Interesting.
—–
Rose said:
“I think a mfh proposition from TH to RSE was his (not LE’s) distracting explanation/accusation—proferred by RSE after TMH pointed LE in his direction.”
Did Rees say in his argument that a *new* GJ has been called? Was that before or after Dede’s testimony, or do we know when? I know GJ testimony is secret, but is it secret as to when one is called? I didn’t think so, but??? Is there a GJ who is hearing ONLY this case?
Just some questions I’ve had.
This is an article once linked by vw, and it is an interesting read if you haven’t read it already. Here’s a snip:
http://www.osbar.org/publications/bulletin/04jul/secrecy.html#
But in the view of Hubbard — and at least some Oregon defense attorneys — secrecy does not further the grand jury’s mission.
“The attitude is, district attorneys do not have to follow the same rules that other attorneys do,” Hubbard complained to the state bar Bulletin and the Lake Oswego Review. “If they don’t like you, if you ask questions, if you expect that they should follow the law and the rules of admissibility of evidence, if you don’t rubber-stamp their charges — no matter how thin the evidence — they will simply forum shop and find another grand jury that will rubber stamp.”
***********
Having sat on the GJ once, I can tell you that we did not issue all true bills. Mostly they were, because the evidence was overwhelming. (Like, *that’s not my drugs the officer found in my pocket*. LOL) I can also tell you we added charges to some indictments that seemed to be missing, in the event the main didn’t stick. (Such as the missing Child Endangerment charge in CA’s case.)
But, after reading this article, I can tell you (and it was a murder case), I think we were being cherry picked by the DA for that one, just as this article states, because after listening and considering lots of testimony, and taking considerable notes (which you leave with DA’s office), AND asking lots of questions, we were simply told that case would be suspended and they *may* get back to us and call us again on it. Never happened, and we just went on hearing other cases until our term was up. Never did hear what became of that case. Tried to watch for it, but never saw it in the paper. It involved a lot of circumstantial evidence as well. For all I know it’s still an unsolved murder.
The reason I question TH’s guilt in Kyrons disappearance is the fact that he did not leave the school with TH. I just can’t imagine that anyone would help a ditzy stepmom kidnap her own child at a crowded science fair.
If she wanted someone to take Kyron why not just make arrangements to take him to the mall or a park or anywhere surrounded by strangers and let go of his hand or send him to the restroom. More then a few children have gone missing this way so it would have been pretty simple.
The scenarios where someone helped her take Kyron from the school become so complicated with timed meet me at the truck, handoffs people spiriting Kyron into seclusion are IMO because there is no simple way to explain how TH could have removed Kyron from the school when she was not at the school when he vanished.
IMO if multiple people had been involved in Kyrons kidnapping something would have leaked by now. a phone call someone bragging or guilty maybe having a little to much to drink etc…
All of the rest of the he said she said looking guilty writing to blogs talking to her gym friends about her marital problems yada yada is just opinions based on personal beliefs of what is believed to be normal behavior in TH’s situation. IMO what is normal for one person may not be what is the norm for someone else so these opinions are to me very subjective.
All of the media hype about hair tinting emails and blogging has made the impression in people minds that TH must be guilty. Most people do not examine the (few) known facts about this case but only know what they read in the newspapers.
JMO
wrt “Tony was speaking as a step parent about his beloved stepson”
just imo We don’t know this, at all. All I remember is TY was gonna take him fishing.
If you look TY up, fishing is HIS thing. For all we know Kyron hated fishing. If one has a
beloved son, one sees him more than 1-2 times monthly, does some driving, and sits down
and has the male to male talk with KH to rearrange custody. If Tony loved Kyr
enough to sayhe’d support him, & KH wouldn’t have to pay, bet it would’ve gone better.
I can see TH with KH away having her hands full & wanting to put DY to work parenting her son.
and using whatever story worked. It sounds like, but we don’t know, TH had a humanlike intense
dislike of DY (and I can see myself in her shoes), and thus from time to time write to friends that
she wished she was doing the hard parenting (and apparently not wellinvolved by KH) for anyone
else’s child.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Founder-of-Daves-Killer-Bread-rams-Wash-Co-sheriffs-cruisers-232041621.html
Dave’s Killer Bread co-founder arrested, accused of ramming police cars
PORTLAND — The co-founder of Dave’s Killer Bread was arrested late Thursday evening after reportedly acting strangely in a home before wrecking with three cruisers from the Washington County Sheriff’s Office (snip)
*****
There is a video at the bottom of the article. Dave’s story is a good one and his company is helping a lot of ex cons.
He exhibited irrational behavior, threatened his own staff, intentionally crashed into police cruisers. He has since hired Houze.
He is a very buff and large man (see video). I cannot help but wonder if he’s been affected by the recent steroid bust? A sudden halt to the use of ‘roids can lead to an altered mental status, especially after long term and heavy use because of the disruption to the hormonal and adrenal systems of the body.
In the article police say a blood toxicology report likely will not be released to the public.
One more thing that has always struck me. Totally a personal opinion but as a parent who absolutely hates science projects and science fairs at the primary level, why the hell would you “disappear” your kid after the pain of the science project and not before?
I want to applaud such a simplistic and occamic question. Except to say from a profiling perspective I could offer the argument- because it presented the opportunity for one to stage their scene or alibi. That said, in general, I agree with you.
B
Exactly January…I feel the same way.
@mbs. TY. While thinking of you, I patiently knew when you had time, a thorough insider’s knowledge-base would come. It sounds lthough to me like Carole was as much a part of a local cronyism network as Goldsmidlt’s wife. The pendulum swinging one way, then another.
Why can’t a Supt search be done the Lake Oswego way, which seems the
professional norm?
http://www.oregonlive.com/lake-oswego/index.ssf/2013/09/lake_oswego_school_district_be.html
Imo it’s the school board, complete with conflicts of interest.
Whether or not TH was involved in Kyron’s disappearance, the timeline proves she did not act alone. This is the common ground. After 3+ years, maybe it’s time to focus on her accomplice.
Seriously. Well delivered, erose.
B
@ mbs, see here OR’s fall 2013 Supt of Year
http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2013/10/david_douglas_school_superinte.html
He said shortly acter hiring he adocated being more like PPS:
cut music k-12, cut band, cut all middle school sports, cut the 5 day workweek, etc
http://eastpdxnews.com/general-news-features/david-douglas’-top-educator-talks-frankly-about-school-district’s-dilemmas/
Is it any wonder cameras & safety were cut in PPS, and el ed gyms rented out to any group, if student newspapers, clubs, music & middle school sports are gone?
Idk why Intel would move educated employees here unless they all buy in Lake Oswego, or go to mediocre privates. I say mediocre because there appears no incentive for privates to teach well to get customers .
I’ll be honest, PPS seems to me to function like black schools in the deep South under Jim Crow. I don’t think it’s a taxpayer $ issue but a Board issue. Why would a City business leadership throw money at foolish managers?
It could have been any child in PPS who was abducted in this school system. Back to why Skyline? Why that day? Someone who lived across the country could’ve googled the managerially bankrupt PPS & flown in.
That log carrying pic of Keefer & boys ….
@T.Ruth
“LE’s silence in this case should be telling us something, I just don’t know what. Could be as simple as there is nothing to tell us, or it could be they are waiting for someone to make a crucial mistake.”
——————————————————————
FWIW I’m leaning toward the latter T.Ruth.
I just made the mistake of visiting OLive comments & seeing 107 as the comment no.,
thought there was something new. Well, new posts were BOC napalm.
Blink, I thank you for your case processing. Erose, I thank you for the cartoon clip,
which on clicking I found 2 below yours on the YouTube page
the cartoon of a charming Peppa Pig, Pirate Island, & Gramps.
Dang. Rose-You made me go, lol. Appreciate the support there, but I am laughing at the Springer crowd. Can’t wait to hear how they have this all locked down and figured out. Could not even post correct publication dates.
If Ky was ever in a position to need an advocate who could get factual information correct- it will not be at olive.
B
@ Lyla & TRuth. I think Investigators missed critical junctures & have No Clue.
Idk if current sequestered FBI has star investigators, or just bureauocrats at the line level.
But it needs to go there, brcause there is no reason to think State Police
are any improvement over the OR Exec, the Portland Exec, the MC Judiciary,
mcso, or the local School Boards
Amys sis, I appreciate your comments even though we may disagree on certain points. Believe me, I have been all over the map on this case as to who may be guilty of Kyron’s disappearance. So I think questions are good.
I’d like to ask you this, in regard to your thought here:
Amys Sister says:
November 18, 2013 at 4:59 am (respectfully, snipped)
“Blaming LE for a faked MFH and fake emails and setting Terri up and playing the bios against one another, etc… Way too out there for me.”
Since the alleged attempted MFH has never been charged, not even conspiracy to commit murder, which is also a crime, and the RO dropped upon which the alleged MFH was based and replaced with a mutual no contact order between the parties as appears in most nasty divorces, and the Judge is about to consider temporary visitation for Ms. Horman what does that say to you? How do you read this chain of events? Why have they done/or in the case of conspiracy charge not done these things?
Also what is your take on Carlos J. Calandriello stepping in as attorney representing Multnomah County? Why do you think he is now involved in this case if not to prepare for a lawsuit to be initiated by Ms. Horman?
Just wondering what you think the DA’s office, Calandriello, LE, Judge may be up to in this chain of events?
If Terri is a pathological liar, then isn’t it likely that she lied to LE during all her hours of interrogation about many things? Is it not a crime in the State of Oregon to lie to LE when they are investigating a crime?
I believe it is if it were the FBI questioning you:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/96-1579.ZS.htm
Why hasn’t this pathological liar been arrested for obstruction of justice and lying to the FBI? She was talking with all of them well before she got an attorney, too much prolly, but still no arrest.
Why wasn’t Dede arrested if she was lying? I’m thinking her arrest would have scared the hell out of Terri if she was Terri’s accomplice.
Maybe, they haven’t been arrested because they weren’t lying, and so far everything they did say has checked out? IDK, sounds reasonable to me at this point.
Maybe no one has lied at all and LE has just never questioned SZ? Or maybe they’ve questioned SZ but didn’t ask the right questions?
It does appear to me, that there have been lies told in regard to relationships between all parents, but even those may just be differences in each individual’s interpretations of past events. I have seen Kaine Horman contradict himself several times, but maybe he just doesn’t have great recall. Who knows?
The one place I see a lie is in the confusion over the doctor appointment. Why would there be any confusion by anyone? That one issue makes no sense at all to me, and I believe someone has lied about the events that took place in regard to Ky’s absence, that caused the delay in searching for him. If there were no doctor appointment made the following week, then Terri would have been lying and been subject to arrest.
Maybe Terri lied to Porter about which day, but what if she didn’t? She wasn’t lying about Kyron being seen with a male chaperone. What exactly has Terri lied about so far that we know of? So, if not Terri, then who else is lying?
My brain keeps telling me to go back to the school, back to the school, back to the school. First to lawyer up, first to make conflicting statements, first (and possibly the only witnesses) to actually discard potential evidence. Heck they were even the first to publicly announce that this had become a criminal case. What was the hurry with that? Simple, the sooner the public knows LE is investigating Terri, the sooner we have covered our arse. What about Kyron? What about helping find him?
Now, three years later, surfaces EM’s testimony about an SZ (which I believe, as Houze is using it in his defense). Now, when did EM tell of these events? I would like to know why this information has been suppressed. Is there other witness testimony being held back that could bust this case wide open? Wonder if news of EM’s testimony has brought about any other witnesses who maybe then just realized that it was Kyron they saw with this male person?
Something is just so wrong with this whole case.
Afraid your OLive comment was removed, Blink.
As in, don’t blink, or you’ll miss all the post-flagging.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/11/judge_allows_horman_divorce_tr.html
So lets keep track, shall we?
Blink On Crime
3 Minutes Ago
What is BOC? I ask because everyone here is talking about my featured work and not proving DCMA required links. When I did, it was removed by the moderator. Allow me to try again, and btw, it was in direct response to a posters false information on the articles publication- I would presume given this news outlet that would not be something one would need to delete but to preserve.
I asked for a retraction from frannie because she made a bunch of integrity allegations, other posters called her out for an example and then went poof.
Talk about a lack of integrity. WTH goes on in that state?
B
RE:
T. Ruth says:
November 18, 2013 at 7:40 pm
~snip~
My brain keeps telling me to go back to the school, back to the school, back to the school.
I agree T. Ruth- folks are suing for not being allowed to wear a certain t-shirt, never mind losing a child. I have never understood the lack of focus on the school and their obvious lack of oversight to a child’s security.
So, who?
1. DeDe always comes up, and what is to say she was telling the total truth in her interview with B?
2. DAD? Poor loser, used by TMH?
3. Older, young adult male who had a “thing” for TMH and was pliable.
4. Someone on the school staff who thought TMH was “hot” and maybe too attched to her children, especially Kyron, so decided to make the path to her much easier?
5. A random parent at the school who thought she would be more ‘available’ without encumberances.
6. TY, who ‘could have been’ just totally fed up with having to deal with little Kyron in the back and forth drives, or maybe needed DY to spend more time focusing on HIM?
7. Kaine, just because he’s a sleeze.
8. TMH all by herself – maybe lost it in an argument with the little guy (steroid reflex, problems at home) and an accident happened and she had to act fast.
9. Girlfriend of a sleeze taking care of the problem with the help of a third party, just to ge KMH all to herself.
10. Guy on a houseboat with something bumping underneath and search dogs catching a scent, maybe also hot for the redhead.
I know she is totally cleared, but it still seems like #1 is a good place to start. To take the fifth hundreds of dozens of times in a courtroom under oath, and then to spill her ‘innocent guts’ in an interview just does not make a whole bucket of sense.
MOO, no offense – gotta look at everybody because the bottom line is Kyron, and one of the above knows something.
@erose says: November 18, 2013 at 4:49 pm
Whether or not TH was involved in Kyron’s disappearance, the timeline proves she did not act alone. This is the common ground. After 3+ years, maybe it’s time to focus on her accomplice.
Seriously. Well delivered, erose.
B
Rose says:
November 18, 2013 at 1:52 am
@Rose…@TRuth. Thank you for taking the time to put forward all Kaine’s statements on the emails.
I think on Dr F, KH was referring to what he did not know preabduction (hatred, emails, etc).
@vw. that was an all-inclusive “ourselves,” meaning me too as I set off to find who was on the Family Bench & the special Domestic Violence Bench at the time, and how codified DV procedures were (very). Having originally assigned to Judge M, the Sr Judge on the DV Panel, McKnight avoiding a colleague of Svetsky is no explanation at all wrt Judge 2. I believe Kantor asked for this case. idk why, but he stands out from the other judges for his business partner & investments, and his political relationships dependence, likely wanting another shot at the Federal bench. My guess is a political tie dropped a hint to both McKnight & Kantor.
—-
Rose. I wondered about this. I’ll put it up, but I found the “Order, transferring Assignment”. McNight says that the matter came up to the court on “its own motion”. Whatever that means. And with abatement ending and Judge M “transferring” to senior status (IOW..retiring) that counsel had been notified.
Notified that it was Ordered that the assignment was transferred to Kantor and to do business with him.
It was filed Dec. 12th, 2012.
Did Waller send this to McNight to figure out? The case was designated “complex” about the same time. I’d looked at the time and found some info at the MC site on complex cases. And I can see that ostensibly until the next August it could be a “complex” case and only Kantor had knowledge then of the case whatsoever once Messy was gone at the end of the month. …. might as well give the divorce to him.
His rather studid and conformist rulings in late Jan/Fed do indicate he was naive about the divorce case and was being led by DA’s office.
oops. #9. just to ge KMH all to herself
I meant KH.
Although … maybe one of the 3-some wanted TMH all to herself. Sleezy and sleezier ….eeeuw.
I still think that TMH really cared about those children, probably even more than KH, who doesn’t seem to have participated much in parenting.
I really wonder if something happened and it was an accident.
One thing for sure, whatever it was, Atty Houze will get her off. That is a given.
Oh, BTW, how about the person paying her legal fees from Bend (if true) — what would be their reason for such expensie help.
all MOO.
@Truth….
I’ve been transcribing part 3 of Dr. Phil’s interviews with the bios. You state….
“Now, three years later, surfaces EM’s testimony about an SZ (which I believe, as Houze is using it in his defense). Now, when did EM tell of these events? I would like to know why this information has been suppressed. Is there other witness testimony being held back that could bust this case wide open? Wonder if news of EM’s testimony has brought about any other witnesses who maybe then just realized that it was Kyron they saw with this male person?”
I think we are going to see more and more of EM, and others. Information that Houze has perhaps alluded to when he says he will prove TMH was not the last person to see Kyron, and that she is innocent.
Here’s what I transcribed as to what the lawyer said to the bios on the show:
Phil introduces lawyer….
“I’m not her to defend Terri, but I am here to help you understand the process because its been THREE YEARs. And seeing what hasn’t happened kinds of gets you an idea of what’s going on here. There hasn’t been an arrest, hasn’t been a suspect that’s been identified, and there hasn’t been any charges, and the reason for that is (pan to DY who looks ticked) you have a case here that involves a missing person. We don’t know what actually happened (DY nods slightly) so it puts the prosecution in a very precarious situation cuz they don’t know what the threshold is or what crime (DY turns head to side, won’t look at him now).
(Phil asks about physical evidence).
Lawyer: I haven’t heard in physical evidence.
(Any direct?-Phil shakes his head while saying this)
Lawyer: The direct evidence I’ve heard would be pointing away from Terri, at least what i’ve heard. We’ve heard a lot of things about terri, but there is nothing that we have heard that is directly related to the disappearance of your child that i’ve heard that incriminates her.”
Most recently, T-ruth, Judge Kantor specifically denied the DA’s squashing of depos….because over THREE years have passed and he is NOT seeing “investigative door opening up” as promised nearly a year ago.
T. Ruth has come full circle on why things don’t make sense. The school is the key and IMO has always been the problem. LE did not do a thorough job investigating all the potential people who may have been present when Kyron went missing.
The big question to me is why did it take the school several hours to even recognize that Kyron was missing and why were parents, school officials, Portland PD and the sheriff not notified within thirty minutes of the discovery?
This case will never be solved until some agency is willing to go back to the beginning and get all the information and then follow that trail to find the perp.
While I think there was a disfunctional family that created a stressful life for children and themselves, I don’t believe they are responsible for Kyron being abducted.
I’m not following, Blink , did you post on Olive and they removed it? I see no one posting there called frannie, just franny. I don’t see anything much there in relation to BOC, other than Kewl’s posts, what were you responding to originally? What did you ask? This is what is there:
Cherylcf
14 Hours Ago
She most likely found that out as those of us who also know – from reading DeDe’s statement on BOC.
Blink On Crime
1 Hour Ago
What is BOC? I ask because everyone here is talking about my featured work and not proving DCMA required links. When I did, it was removed by the moderator. Allow me to try again, and btw, it was in direct response to a posters false information on the articles publication- I would presume given this news outlet that would not be something one would need to delete but to preserve.
thatkewlgirl
19 Minutes Ago
Blink On Crime – I posted the links to your website (both parts on the DeDe articles) in response to Franny’s earlier allegations, however, the comment I posted on was ‘plutoed’ by someone alerting on it (you can look in my archive by clicking on my name – all the comments in that thread – except the first one – still show up in each person’s index log).
These are the two links I posted:
Part One:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/04/blink-on-crime-…
Part Two:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-…
Blink On Crime -
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/04/blink-on-crime-…
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation. © S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime Lea Conner, Attorney- contributing editor, and, legal analyst Forward In the d…
Blink On Crime -
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-…
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued © S.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/11/judge_allows_horman_divorce_tr.html
what am I missing?
It would appear you are missing what we all are. Is the issue that alternative sources are deleted, yet discussed? Thats a problem.
@RedRose says:
November 18, 2013 at 10:39 pm
“7. Kaine, just because he’s a sleeze.”
Oh, RedRose you just made laugh so hard I almost peeeed. JMO, but I would discount 1 3 4 5 9 & 10. The rest for me are open for investigation. That being said, most all of your options revolve around the Rdsqrl, IMO we need to look elsewhere. I think, JMO again, that this is exactly why the case has stalled. We are looking down the wrong rabbit hole. Hmmmm, song comes to mind,
One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don’t do anything at all
Go ask Alice
When she’s ten feet tall
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you’re going to fall
Tell ‘em a hookah smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call
Call Alice
When she was just small
When men on the chessboard
Get up and tell you where to go
And you’ve just had some kind of mushroom
And your mind is moving slow
Go ask Alice
I think she’ll know
****When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead
And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen’s “off with her head!”
Remember what the dormouse said;
“KEEP YOUR HEAD” *******!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKAprtLh7M
I apologize for any earworm I may have left. Night all.
haven’t bothered to look back there, but
there were maybe 3 BOC commenters.
what I find is if it says 100 comments maybe
30 are left after deletion.
However, since the divorce trial began this is
an extraordinary improvement. Then you might’ve had 100
“comments” a day. Now it takes 2-3 weeks. I mainly
look to see if VW has new docs (ie from last Friday).
@Red Rose. Her legal fees were characterized as a loan;
don’t you expect most from parents’ remortgage?
@RedRose wrt “So who?” A male fitting SZ’s description
& behavior, including access to a white truck, known
to be at or near Skyline on June 4 circa 9 am. Takes
policework.
@RedRose. Read article above. DDS took a lie detector test & was given true results in writing by LE per
prior agreement. She consistently told same story for 3 years to LE & Grand Jury prior speaking to BOC.
Please notice, all 3 persons presumeably asked by mcso to participate in an antiTerri sting were 3 persons mcso
likely believed guilty of something. I don’t think mcso solicited DDS for a “sting” because they cleared her but because they still wanted to get evidence of her guilt. They’d have taken the acting script they’d give her & use her recorded words to charge her imo. They’re that dumb & sneaky. But, To solicit the unreliable “guilty” to “sting” was insane imo. (RSE–accused by TH; MC – accused by wife wrt drugs, DDS – accused by LE & bios).
fwiw, I am POSITIVE LE expected DDS to fail that poly.
B
I just read back to BOC’s comment here.
The worst was not franny iirc.
franny was a follower.
& not worth discussing.
lol, yet another hamster wheel to the hater crater
B
Lots of provocative thoughts, today. Gets you to thinking ’bout that school and how LE capitulated to the need of the district to keep panic at bay.
They could have shut that school down. They could have spent precious weeks and even months with Skyline as a ground zero crime scene and captured every school record available and pursued every possible link in the area and looked again for clues of an abducted/murdered child rather than a lost boy… and every possible RSO within miles…including downtown portland, would have been investigated (not just talked to) that summer.
We didn’t know then…but we know now that Kyron was seen by Tanner and by Mrs. Matthews after TMH left. And that Mrs. Matthews had known Kyron left with someone other than Terri. A man. And they knew that. LE knew that. Many parents and teachers knew that. The bios knew that. Probably the “team players” in the press knew that.
Yet the public at the time ONLY knew that potentially Dede was in league with Terri. And she “failed the poly” and she “had motive” with the Rudy-thingy. And was a dangerous wannabe husband-killer. A black widow.
For precious months. And the school started, again, as usual, in the Fall.
As a mom of kids down the hill, not having a clue, I can say that I was enormously relieved when reports of TMH’s phone “pings” got leaked. Course I never thought of it as a “leak”. I thought that now MY kids were safe.
To that end…we failed Kyron. Unknowingly. Parents didn’t ask how they were sure. And the public, most of them, didn’t believe otherwise.
A stranger-abduction from a public school….impossible.
When the divorce is finalized next year, and TMH gets her child back…then what? Are our schools safe?
@TRuth. wrt “If Terri is a pathological liar, then isn’t it likely that she lied to LE during all her hours of interrogation about many things? Is it not a crime in the State of Oregon to lie to LE when they are investigating a crime?
I believe it is if it were the FBI questioning you:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/96-1579.ZS.htm”
This is why it’s ne plus ultra odd the interrogations of TH were not video recorded like that gal
Jodi Arias whose interview videos were played with great effect at trial.
My only conclusion is videos would show untoward interview methods, alientaring a future jury,
and/or an innocent interviewee.
I would point out that Arias was in custody, but it is an excellent study guide for LE interview and interrogation technique. Mostly what to never do, but FLores did a few things right. Arias was a textbook deceptive neon sign throughout. To your point, which I have been saying since before I actually had extensive training in both these areas, is that once the decision was made to mave TMH into the defacto suspect column by LE, they should have used their best asset to conduct her interview/interrogation. Trained LE personnel know they only get one shot.
B
@ Amys Sister says:
November 18, 2013 at 3:44 pm
http://www.kgw.com/news/Founder-of-Daves-Killer-Bread-rams-Wash-Co-sheriffs-cruisers-232041621.html
Did you happen to see who his lawyer is?
wrt “back to the school”
it seems most reasonable to me the SZ at this science fair was associated with the school system in
some manner & thus he blended. both “Clay” & Sandusky of this article were married role models & associated
with schools. http://m.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2012/09/24/120924crat_atlarge_gladwell