Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police

A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued  ©

S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime

DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman

 

In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher,  she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court.  Unofficially cleared, that is.

Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley,  who have since refused all local media requests,  would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.

Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide.  While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously,  her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.

As was proven not only by her recent polygraph,  but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place,  Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.

The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher  as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.  Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.

Stoy: So, in your estimation then,  why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.

Spicher:  I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons.  I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with.  He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc.  I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name.   As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order,  she was also told that

Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that?  I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.

Spicher: No.  I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th.    I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.

Stoy: ok, sorry, continue.  So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?

Spicher:  They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding.  It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June,  and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March.  So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?

To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.

Stoy: Which was?

Spicher: At first,  I think that they really believed I was involved,  and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was,  and my vehicle never left, nor did I.  They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.

Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case,  they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?

Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect.  I never felt that way,  but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever,  but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.

Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?

Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did.  To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning.    I would ask like who do you mean,  because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this.  I was scared and it turned out it was good reason.   I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.

Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice?  Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that.  People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies.  I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative.  In fact,  Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly.  So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.

Spicher: (laughs) Interesting.  I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.

Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?

Spicher: No,  do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?

Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?

Spicher:  I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house.  Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.

Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?

Spicher: That’s it,  yes, him.  Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?

Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through,  and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you.  If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information,  I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?

Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.

Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back ,  considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work?  What did your attorney say when you told him?

Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney,  but to answer your question as to my opinion,  I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction.  After more thought,  and other conversations,  I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible.   What is your opinion on it?

Stoy:  I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece.  Again, not wanting to temper your opinions  as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did.  Is that ok with you?

Spicher: Sure, thank you.

Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion.  I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman.  Is that correct?

Spicher: Correct, ok.

Stoy: Did they ask you this?

Spicher: Who is they?  You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).

Stoy: Fair point, you’re right.  The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor.  Allow me to rephrase please.  Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?

Spicher:  Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?

Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?

Spicher: (laughs) touche’ .  I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids.  I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.

Stoy: Why shock you?

Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing”  and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well,  impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.

Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct?  That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc.  And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?

Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury.  But yes, that is what she told me.  I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her.  To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement .  I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case,  but yes,  they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are.  But that is my assumption.

Stoy:  Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s  service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home?  Spicher:  I am not sure about the exclusive use part,  I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.

Stoy: Ok.  Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory.  By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.

Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.

Stoy:  How would you know that?

Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request.   She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids.  I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.

Stoy: ok,  understood,  we will get back to that.  I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.”  Do you recall what year, even ballpark.

Spicher:  I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005,  and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.

Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine,  I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help.  Do you remember where you were during the conversation.

Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell,  Terri had a lot of drama,  and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know,  we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.

Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?

Spicher:  Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention.  It was either during that call or at the lunch.  Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.

Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?

Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.

Stoy: Got it.  What did she say

Spicher:  She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”.  She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her.  She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller.  The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him.  I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.

Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from?  Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?

SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.

Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person?  Sort of like…  she gets approval to remain anonymous,  she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?

Spicher: Yes, something like that.  Except and again,  we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out.  The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact.  From what I recall,  I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.

Stoy: Understood,  so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day,  but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.

Spicher: Yes,  I think so.

Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice.  I don’t think so because she did not ask for any.  So then what?  Did Kaine find out?

Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy,  and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day.   If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember,  that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.

Stoy: Ok.  Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?

Spicher:    Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed,  it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing.   She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office.   We did.

Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what?  Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher:  I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served,  in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le,  but it would surprise me.  Terri was always very family centric.  She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing,  this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.

Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: No, not at all.

Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?

Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper.   He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.

Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting”  and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”

Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.

Stoy: She specifically said the FBI,  who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.

Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s  contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?

Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?

 

Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?

It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years.  The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier.  As a strong argument for the trickle down effect,  Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle,  was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report.   A former Sheriff,   Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications.  The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place.  Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.

In fact,  Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.

MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.

The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell.   O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.

There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.

In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week,  it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.

It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan,  the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.

Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.

After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids  a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption  tipping other’s off  in the alleged ring ,  Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso,  Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested.  The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike.   The specifics of which were sealed by the court.  It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.

Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids?  How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?

“… Jackson,   through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”

“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest.  He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”

 On June 3rd, 2010,  approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance,  Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.

From the Indictment:

Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury,  in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden.  Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products.  Worden has never been charged.

 Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and

841(b)( 1)(E).

 

The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known  to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).

 

The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin,  a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.

 

According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.

 

 

From Buff To Puff

 

In contrast to Jackson,  although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement,  William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon”  cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.

In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote,  “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”

 

Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way.  Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client,  was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.

 

John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case,  sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well.  Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question.  Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason.  The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.

“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”

Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.

Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.

 

On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.

Andrew Millbrooke  filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby,  Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith  for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot.   In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy.  The suit is pending.  A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion.  Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].

 

With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against  Traverso were dismissed  this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.

Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation.  Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.

As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .

Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold  illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.

However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids,  but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.

“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.

“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.

He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.

At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”

S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.

The source,  an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…”   “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…”  The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.

Reached for comment,  Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.

A request for comment to Mr. Bunch,  Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.

 

More Questions Than Answers..

Following several hours of interviews with  DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?

Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.

She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”

She was not.

Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself.  Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.

Through Spicher,  Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness”  which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc,  Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th.  His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.

Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought.  Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.

 

Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada  Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous.  Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom,  to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.

To her knowledge,  there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.

In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.

 

Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:

“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”

 

Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators.  One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer,  at their own expense  The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had  agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.

“…  This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.

 

The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”

 

I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange.  She had.  I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.

Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion.  Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.

I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home.  She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.

Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?

Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.

Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper?  I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen,  and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.

Spicher:  No, it wasn’t.  Kaine bought it.  It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property.   I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home.  I  mean, like cleaning the gutters,  cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing.  To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.

Stoy: With a baby,  7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that?  No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help.  I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.

Spicher:  No,  Terri  had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children.  I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money.  I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage.  One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that.  I believe the other was the landscaper.

Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.

Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that?  But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.

Stoy:  Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?

Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].

Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement.  Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you.  Are you angry about that?

Spicher:  O my no.  That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine.  I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can..   I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them.   I really pray that Kyron will be found,  I choose to put my energy into hope for that.

Pending Matters

Through Attorney Bunch,  Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.

In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday,  Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.

Early this afternoon,  a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.

A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013

 

 

Jacqueline Beaufort,  Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.

Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.

 

 

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4,398 Comments

  1. Rose says:

    PS If a marital beard is needed to retain physical custody,
    the shoe was on the other foot when Desiree remarried if
    Kaine sensed his marriage was ending; and, he said they were troubled.
    And after June 4, there was no need for Terri at all.

  2. Tarheel says:

    What would be your opinion, or any of the great Blink contributors opinions, of why Terri would not get a RO at this point? I know I would, and can’t work out in my mind why Terri wouldn’t. Do Terri’s actions not meet the courts definition of what a RO could be issued for? Any thoughts?

  3. NelMel says:

    T. Ruth says:
    November 29, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    “I told Kaine that when you are married to the devil and you give her a reason to be pissed off, all of your sins are going to come back and here we are in this situation,” Young said.

    http://www.wfsb.com/story/23465152/kyron-horman-case-returns-to-national-spotlight-with-dr-phil-show

    Interesting statement by Desiree. Says to me:

    Desiree does not blame Kaine for cheating on her. She blames Terri.
    Desiree can see the devil in Terri for having an affair with Kaine, but she doesn’t see the devil in Kaine for having an affair with Terri, while she was 8 months pregnant with Kyron.

    Desiree thinks this is all happened simply because Terri was pissed off at Kaine.

    Whatever Kaine’s past sins are, have caused this situation.

    So why isn’t she pointing fingers at Kaine? Why does she say on the same show that she doesn’t blame Kaine for anything?

    What mixed-up, jumbled-up messages Desiree gives.

    =====================================================================

    Desiree never liquefied her righteous anger for KH’s infidelity, plus, I know…I KNOW, that it was not just about infidelity.

    She is confusing her legitimate rage directed at KH with Kyron’s abduction.

    TMH is her target, because there are women and men in our society who will never, ever, EVER blame a man for infidelity. We really do need to correct these people. They believe that men are seduced by women, and they always blame “the slut” who ‘stole’ the man.

    EEEEEk. It’s 2013. Time to offload those old ideas. DY has to do that. KH has to do that.

  4. MockingbirdSings says:

    Tarheel says:
    November 29, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    What would be your opinion, or any of the great Blink contributors opinions, of why Terri would not get a RO at this point? I know I would, and can’t work out in my mind why Terri wouldn’t. Do Terri’s actions not meet the courts definition of what a RO could be issued for? Any thoughts?
    ——————————-

    I’m confident that Houze will do whatever needs to be done, or avoid what shouldn’t, but with my limited experience dealing with RO’s, I’m not sure that would be granted anyway. I believe it would be more appropriate to consider it stalking and follow up that way.

    I’m also not sure how you handle a group of people in that respect. If you had a stalking order against DY, then would you not have others who now consider it an even greater calling to carry on in her place? How many stalking orders (or RO’s) must you get?

  5. Rose says:

    If Terri filed for an RO, couldn’t Desiree et al contest it?
    Another way of involving Terri in litigation & putting her under
    oath. Probably D’s real objective. (and they got that lawyer fund & it would
    generate a lot more donations. And D woukd draw more followers
    publicizing “I contested an RO but SHE (Terri) didn’t.
    I am sure Houzeof Bunch are wise Counsel.

  6. Rose says:

    Moreover, the timing of chalk&stalk was highly strategic on D and her sisters’ part & raises my estimate of their intelligence. (Sorry, but true.) If TM went fir an DO, Desiree would be contesting it, & likely winning, just before the hearing re visitation. Why winning? The RO magistrate is not going to find a coffee club chalking public property rises to an RO level imo without more. There was not even a police citation. (Doubtless TY advised the sisterly trio of same.) Imagine the Lynne Terry headlines wben D won the RO litigation just before the custody hearing. Imo it would be falling into a PD’s trap.

  7. Rose says:

    correction: “for an RO”

  8. vw says:

    @Blink…so much depends on a red wheel-barrow (and our interpretations)

    Just putting together all the “stories” on this latest stalking incident. Lynne Terry, the “biographer” of the August, 2010 story of Terri Horman, was one of the latest to author (i.e. have an interview with DY) a definitive “chalker-stalker” story. Who called whom is the question.

    What was interesting to me was the “voice” that came out of the interview she had with Desiree Y. compared to the Broadcast news reports.

    So I compiled a grouping of the KATU, KPTV, KGW stories and juxtaposed them with ths “interview” with Oregonlive:

    http://vwoolfexploresthenorthwest.blogspot.com/

    As an aside: Just noticed that i did NOT compare Lynne’s with her Olive counterpart who initially reported the story.

    My personal take is the online news outlets that do not do live news broadcasts know they are only on the even playing field when there is “news” that is not filmed or film-worthy. Lynne Terry took a definite angle in her coverage imo and it definitely could be construed as supportive. She quotes DY saying they went to were TMH works, in contrast to the “businesses she is known to frequent” or whatever so I hope she got that right. Word on the street is that DY snubbed Iboshi after he announced her text asking if TMH was really in court.
    B

  9. vw says:

    @rose

    If Terri filed for an RO, couldn’t Desiree et al contest it?
    Another way of involving Terri in litigation & putting her under
    oath. Probably D’s real objective. (and they got that lawyer fund & it would
    generate a lot more donations. And D woukd draw more followers
    publicizing “I contested an RO but SHE (Terri) didn’t.
    I am sure Houzeof Bunch are wise Counsel.
    =====

    Unless she gets a judge like Messinger:

    I.e. … “if Terri H. fears for her life, than that is a FACT. And can you say for a FACT that DY has not trespassed on her yard in the last 2 years and threatened her?”

  10. grasshopper says:

    Blink says, I know you were being responsive to public sentiment, I edited a word.

    Editing always fine by me. I was just trying to compare the media hyped contrast between the two. comparison absolutely ends with that.

  11. Rose says:

    @ ve fwiw since teery’s solo reprise article with the misleading “tip” headline was oublished only a few hours after virtually the same article by Shane with Lynn’x help, it was my opinion one of the named persons in the articke got on the phone to Terry asking the article be rewritten with this or that added or clarified. Otherwise why write a second same-topic article in lesx than a working day?
    —-
    Idkwhat’s possible legally, but in TM’s shoes, I’d wonder about (rather than an RO,) waiting til after next June (custody done) and filing a harassment suit specifically on chalk&stalk alone (and future episodes) rather than media talk, because it’s easily objectively proveable & a narrow grounds to try on. Add on a conspiracy charge (also easily objectively proveable). Will point out one of the conspirators has a public fundraising account in part for same (work materials, etc). Enabling RICO & triple damages. Going for actual injuries (ie therapist for TM, lost wages due to underemloent in profession), and have tge No Contact order as a primary outcome of that civil suit wrt all found to be conspirators (which should include everylne present at chalk&stalks.)

  12. Rose says:

    geez, my eyesight is worse than ever. cataracts.
    @vw wrt Terri’s …

  13. Rose says:

    One more thought on an harassment – conspiracy suit with RICO (therefore federal & Kantor could whistle emptily for it)…. based on activities at her home, work, and town of residence.
    TM will have to demonstate to Vien she will protect Kiara. Therefore any No contact order wrt conspirators needs to include Kiara. Filed before Vien completes his report asking for a Temp Restraining Order wrt to the No Contact. Idk anything about the law, but this seems to me the most expediant way to
    protect mother & daughter. Can’t you just see Kiara at the Moulton’s while coffeechalkclub is holding up her brother’s pic outside? I’d file whatever about 2 months before the first home visit. Federal/RICO (which gofundme ought to justify) would get it out of Kantor’s hands. But I’m no lawyer, so in this idea, I just speculate.

  14. Rose says:

    first story, Kavanaugh, originally co-bylined with Terry secondary;
    on November 25, 2013 at 10:29 PM, updated November 26, 2013 at 11:13 AM
    “Lynne Terry of the Oregonian contributed to this report.
    – Shane Dixon Kavanaugh”
    Perhaps the edit 3 hours before the new piece was to move Terry’s name from top to bottom?
    Imo someone got on phone to Ordgonian the morning of 11/26. Otherwise why a second story on same event in less than 24 hours with the same reporter?
    I assumed the picture would not be to any woman’s self-liking.
    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/11/kyron_hormans_mother_desiree_y.html

    Second story about same event by Terry: on November 26, 2013 at 2:30 PM, updated November 26, 2013 at 2:41 PM
    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/11/kyron_hormans_mother_desiree_y_1.html

  15. RedRose says:

    We’ve ripped apart and poked into the lives of the three major players here, but nobody seems to pay much attention to the silent Mr. Officer Young. Wonder why.

  16. cd says:

    RedRose says:
    November 30, 2013 at 4:34 pm
    We’ve ripped apart and poked into the lives of the three major players here, but nobody seems to pay much attention to the silent Mr. Officer Young. Wonder why.
    —————-
    I think it is because we don’t know anything about him or his family. Was TY married to someone else before he married DY. Does he have any children from prior relationships. Has he always live in OR or did he relocate from another state. I am not even sure he is still in a relationship with DY since they never mention him in any news about DY and he is never seen with her on any of her publicity outings. He did interviews with her at the beginning of this case so why the silence now.

  17. Rose says:

    @Red Rose. Personally I don’t think we’ve “ripped apart” or “poked into the lives of” the 3. We have taken their public statements, actions, & documents at face value and tried to understand them, forming opinions about their public faces as we go.

  18. T. Ruth says:

    re: RO

    Larry & Carol should file one. More than once, Desiree has made negative remarks about them. Exactly why I think LM was out taking pictures of the activities. Carol’s 911 call specified that they were defacing “their” property. (Not that I’m saying they were, it looked to me like they only defaced the City of Roseburg’s property.) There is no doubt in my mind that Carol & Larry fear for their lives as well as Terri now.

    Defacing pubic property is a crime in Roseburg. The street is public property. Maybe it doesn’t matter if it can be washed off, but I’m not sure, because let’s say it’s the County Courthouse wall is spread with some vile message in chalk, maybe some 20′ in the air, ….who will wash it off? No doubt, some publicly paid employee. Therefore, it costs the public money to do so.

    Now, if Desire & team offered to wash off the chalk on the public street with their own water, then ….. I would guess the law would say no harm no foul. ????

  19. NelMel says:

    I think this case is all about custody.

    TMH and DY were talking to each other via emails or phone calls, and DY admitted that TMH had Kyron call her when he was upset. DY referred to asking KH to change custody for Kyron. DY stated that KH said that was “not an option.”

    I believe that KH is somehow behind Kyron’s disappearance into thin air because of a challenge to his primary custody of his son.

    I know you do Nelmel and I respect that, but just want to say I respectfully disagree with that theory entirely.
    B

  20. T. Ruth says:

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/22/ijvm.01.html

    This is an interesting interview with Kaine back in November 2010. Just thought I’d share it in hindsight with you all. One of things that popped out at me is he uses the same term he just did on Dr. Phil, about not “investigating” his wife’s behavior.

    but, the most interesting comment for me was this one:

    HORMAN: You know, I`d rather not, our divorce case is still pending. We`re in the middle of the legal process there. The criminal cases haven`t started.

    ****************

    So whatever Kaine was privy to, or not, as far as he knew there was NO criminal case started as of November 22, 2010. No MFH case, no nothin’.

  21. GraceintheHills says:

    Tarheel says:
    November 29, 2013 at 7:52 pm
    What would be your opinion, or any of the great Blink contributors opinions, of why Terri would not get a RO at this point? I know I would, and can’t work out in my mind why Terri wouldn’t. Do Terri’s actions not meet the courts definition of what a RO could be issued for? Any thoughts?
    ~~~~~~~
    Tarheel, this is moo, but I’m not so sure a RO might not cause more trouble than it’s worth. If DY can contest it, it just sounds like another way to get TH into court. I agree with MBS that Houze, who is an excellent lawyer, will do what he needs to do, and avoid what he doesn’t.

    Rose says:
    November 30, 2013 at 11:50 am
    geez, my eyesight is worse than ever. cataracts.
    @vw wrt Terri’s …
    ~~~~~~~~
    I can so sympathize, Rose!

  22. Patricia says:

    I’ve been away for a few days. All I have to say after catching up is NelMel has summed up a lot of my pondering. and,

    Egads this whole case is starting to read like a Stephen King Novel (Needful Things comes to mind).

    Why do some missing person cases go un-noticed after a few weeks, and yet this one is still garnering “mobs?” Is it because of someone(s) flaming the fire.

    I pray for all the children from broken marriages who have to deal with the disfunction and distrust that the adults in their lives harbor. For every step child out there It is my wish that they will find sanity in their bio parents and compassion in their steps.

    And for Kyron Horman I pray that he will be found and that his family will be able to forgive each other and find peace in the truth.

    And for all the die hard haters of whomever you hate it is my hope that you will one day realize that it takes more effort and stress to hate than it takes to be complacent and that waiting for the truth is probably wiser than seeking revenge upon a person or a situation that you are not really certain of.

    No one can be truly certain of the outcome of this child’s fate, and that is the one thing I am certain of.

  23. Rose says:

    @NelMel. Let’s look at both sides.
    Imo Kaine’s “no option” to a transfer of primary physical residence to DY would, without this abduction, look not like hoarding narcisstically, but a mature judgment made in Kyron’s best interests. Imo at the time it likely reflected his best judgement of which “wife” had a track record of successful mothering of Kyron thru thick & thin; which woman he felt best about as a fulltime mother for Kyron (which conflicts with his war on Terri as mother now); the value of continuity; the value of living with his sib; which mother was “at home,” and so on–in addition to his own desire for physical presence.

  24. Rose says:

    @Patricia. There are apparently 3 sisters
    who have coalesced and bonded over the
    Terri-terrorizing approach to “Finding Kyron”.

  25. erose says:

    @NelMel, I have often wondered (and felt strongly) about the custody motive, but I have trouble reconciling the outcome. Was this a plan gone wrong, or was this the plan, because no one we know has Kyron. So what would KH’s plan be? Stash him until he is 18 to keep him away from DY? Who would be raising him? The sister in Europe? So does KH not see him at all for years? He would see him more with joint custody and visitation.

    In Washington, any “change in circumstance” of a child warrants a re-visitation of custody, so the Horman’s divorce (prior to the abduction, if one was in the works) would have given DY the ammunition she needed to go back to court and be the custodial parent. Hypothetically, KH would also have to pay child support to two women for Kyron and Kiara. Good financial motive, but one would have to assume he had no desire to have Kyron near him, and be saddled with a toddler, which would cost some money to save a few bucks.

  26. T. Ruth says:

    @Rose says:
    December 1, 2013 at 1:17 am

    Excellent point.

  27. Rose says:

    Speaking about interpretations of bios’ media statements, if the Iboshi kibosh is true (snubbing a reporter for reporting a media-seeking bio effected media contact during a court hearing to which she was not a party), then how do we know when Kaine told Denson & Pitkin “we” are unhappy with your coverage, so out you go, that that was Kaine’s idea. He had Desiree to keep happy so she didn’t start unloading about her POV on philandering. It could’ve been Desiree’s sensitivities, and Kaine merely spoke with his usual royal “we.”

    That was definitely Kaine’s idea and it was because of Pitkin’s access and his allegation about the ex parte RO he claimed DY filed against Kaine when she filed for divorce
    B

  28. Rose says:

    TH for reply. I find I think of KH in the best possible light when he is silent.

  29. Panda says:

    I am puzzled about the wording TH’s mother used in her 911 call in Roseburg. This particular comment is in the video posted here. Referring to the signs, she says the signs have pictures of “the boy.” “The boy?”

    http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Mother-of-Kyron-Horman-tries-to-confront-Terri-Horman-233395221.html

    I have to say, I am shocked that I keep hearing this call redacted and out of context. That is a journalistic no-no. She previously referred to him as her grandson- I would be willing to bet Houze told her specifically not to mention him by name.
    B

  30. Rose says:

    Speaking of “redacted” & “out of context” without journalistic analysis, there is a phrnomenon going on in Portland TV/print media (when it comes down to it, 3 channels, isn’t it? kptv, kgw, karu, and Oregonian?), which woukd make great stuff for a joint PhD dissertation in Social Psychology/Journalism or Social Paych/Criminology wrt applied journalism. U wash Seattle ought to have PhD joint degree candidates shopping for a research study. Something is going on in the media in terms of social psychology, & only WW wisely has stepped back. Imo that’s due to a conflict of interest as co-owner’s wife is State AG. Moreover wouldn’t want to screw future political promotions.

  31. Patricia says:

    @Ruth – I come from a family of 5 sisters (no brothers) and our bond and support of each other’s causes is great, however, we would never bond to vilify another.

    Band Wagon jumpers sometimes have the loudest voices and then when the game ends out of their favor they fade into the silence. I wish that someone would yell from the wagon about the FACTS. Like SZ for instance.

  32. Mom3.0 says:

    Blink why would Houze specifically tell her not to mention Kyron by name?

    speculative on my part- excited utterance would require an identified person or persons to qualify. And then there is the issue that it would not be subject to public release, potentially, once parallel with the target subject of an ongoing criminal investigation.
    Imo, this case is at the “all in” status. It is why DY is acting out in the first place. Houze would have advised on this.

    B

  33. Patricia says:

    oops! should be @ Rose, not sure what my brain did there.

  34. Rose says:

    from McStay thread. Any of it applicable to Kyron Horman et al?
    http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/11/20/mcstay-family-murdered-will-desert-graves-yield-their-killers/#comments

    “In short, and without exception, victimology is the second most important investigative element only to a crime scene. When there is no crime scene, which there was NOT in this case we know of until November 11th- it should have been the number one priority ….”

    “. It is HOPEFUL to present a framework to depict the relationship between the offender (s) and the victims.”

    “With children this young, their profile is almost exclusively tied to the caregivers and their environment/lifestyle/educators/child care, etc. In other words, unless we have a background with a child leaving the home without knowledge, spending excessive time away from the home, behavioral cues or developmental challenges of some kind, we find a very high percentage of association to the parent or caregivers assessed risk.”
    —-
    So, perhaps apart from school personnel/contractors, we are back to parents’ assessed risk. And there’s the rub: factual black holes on 3 of the 4.

    wrt to Kyron’s victimology, w/out further info one knows he had a controlling father, who presents as somewhat aloof with stilted language, who may be a disengaged parent wrt basics (eyes/dr.); a stepmother who functioned as primary mother, also controlling but warm, and involved, yet who assisted Son 1 to move out and apparently (& Kyron would know this) promoted son 2 moving out (upping insecurity wrt attachment?. So, she was both primary nurturer, but to concrete young eyes, likely also unstable & rejecting. Wrt parents 3&4: their history & risks speak for thrmselves, or don’t.

    this untrained, illread person thinks Kyron would be susceptible to a male authority figure who presented in a very nurturing, accepting manner, and who presented as wanting to spend time with Kyron and showed personal interest in him. that is, if he was groomed.

  35. MockingbirdSings says:

    This is a little OT, but on the other hand the work of and relationships with metro area LE here are definite factors in a lot of what we’ve discussed.

    I am very sad today because the City of Milwaukie just lost our Police Chief to “retirement,” effective Nov. 30th. Why did the Chief decide to retire? When the very things that make you a top notch, professional, and highly respected employee are disrespected and cut despite the strong efforts of citizens and Council members and in the face of overwhelming evidence that we need and want a strong, well-trained, well-equipped police department, not only to protect us but to work with us as a community, and your best efforts to change that have not succeeded, retirement starts to be an option worth considering. He did not want to leave, but felt he had no other personal or professional choice.

    His approach to the impact of the opening of light rail in Milwaukie is in line with the previous chief’s predictions and other communities’ experiences, his department plans are thorough and supported by facts, his professionalism and relationships with Milwaukie citizens, businesses, schools (both staff and students), and community groups go way beyond his job description and what could be expected of him, his procedures are cost effective, and his heart for Milwaukie and his department is obvious when you begin talking with him.

    This Chief couldn’t afford to have a bicycle patrol but he believed in the value of it, so once a week, he rode a bicycle on patrol. He started a program to refurbish hundreds of unclaimed and confiscated bikes and give them to school kids who couldn’t afford them, along with helmets. He participated in Special Olympics activities, and ate dinner once a month at a secure facility for mental patients who committed serious crimes and were eventually going to be released into the community. He inspired and supported the community effort to raise funds to buy, train, and support a K-9 (previously cut years ago), then helped to get a second one. He is on the board of an organization that helps victims of sex trafficking, and contributes to other charities as well. He has organized and provided training for school(s) staff re dealing with an active shooter and internet dangers for kids. He took a regional approach with other departments in sharing resources as far as possible.

    Our Chief was here about 5 years. He previously retired and came here directly from the FBI where he had been for decades. Although well qualified, he went through basic police training again. He has a law degree, and real ethics and integrity – not the kind that come and go based on who’s asking and what’s convenient.

    In a metro area where I am seriously in doubt about the work of some (even though not all) local LE, I feel a huge loss for our city government and citizens. A replacement or new police officer can take as long as 18 months from the time of hiring to be able to patrol individually – we need to plan for full staffing now for 2015. This is not unfair to other city departments which can provide an orientation and start someone new to their job in a week or two.

    How did this happen? Our city manager had negotiated a second contract which says if the council or citizens reduce his duties, disagree with his choices, fire him or do anything he thinks is equal to firing him, he gets salary and benefits which amount to around $600,000. Even though it was quite clear that we (citizens and Council members) wanted a fully staffed police department with adequate resources and training, and wanted our chief to stay, the city manager continued to cut our police budget and to refuse to hire replacements when needed. Unfortunately, the Council did not realize when they approved his contract that they would be giving away the right to protect the interests of the city or to follow the direction of the citizens unless they buy back the right to overrule his decisions.

    If this were really an issue of retirement, I’d be the first to congratulate the Chief. But this is an issue of respect, an issue of professional treatment of colleagues, an issue of budgeting according to Council direction, an issue of acknowledging that the citizens/voters state that public safety is a very high priority, an issue of admitting that the changes coming from light rail are not “what if’s”, and an issue of understanding the timing and planning required to fund the resources that are needed – all rolled up into one big bundle of issues!

    I have always wondered why our police department was not asked to help in Kyron’s case, beyond sorting through some tips early on. I know we offered, I know the chief said we absolutely would help at any point IF asked, and we have some extraordinarily well-trained officers, particularly for the size police force we have. We are just outside of Multnomah County and I know of no political conflicts or personal histories that would get in the way of that. Is it possible THAT’s why we weren’t asked?

    PS – if you live in a city which uses a city manager to handle operations, check out how it’s working in your city. It’s amazing how much power one person can give themselves with just a few lines in a contract. (And yes, the contract was evaluated by an attorney for the city.)

  36. MockingbirdSings says:

    Rose says:
    December 1, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    (snipped)
    Speaking of “redacted” & “out of context” without journalistic analysis, there is a phrnomenon going on in Portland TV/print media (when it comes down to it, 3 channels, isn’t it? kptv, kgw, karu, and Oregonian?), which woukd make great stuff for a joint PhD dissertation in Social Psychology/Journalism or Social Paych/Criminology wrt applied journalism.

    FYI review for those interested –
    Major TV/news stations in the metro area:

    KATU ABC network

    KOIN CBS network

    KGW NBC network

    KPTV FOX network

    and Oregon Public Broadcasting

    The Oregonian (newspaper) has a strong online presence.

  37. T. Ruth says:

    @MockingbirdSings says:
    December 1, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    I have always wondered why our police department was not asked to help in Kyron’s case, beyond sorting through some tips early on. I know we offered, I know the chief said we absolutely would help at any point IF asked, and we have some extraordinarily well-trained officers, particularly for the size police force we have. We are just outside of Multnomah County and I know of no political conflicts or personal histories that would get in the way of that. Is it possible THAT’s why we weren’t asked?

    **************

    Funny I was just thinking today about Desiree’s comment on the PRadio program about her being so glad that MCSO got this case…..instead of?????….PPB, I would guess. WTH was that all about?

    I have a feeling this case has been being manipulated by someone with some sort of power since day one, and I don’t mean KH. Parents not speaking out in the beginning, has anyone ever heard of such a thing, parents not pleading for the return of their child? The two sets of parents, obviously at odds with one another staying together at the same home for almost two weeks? LE staying with them round the clock for almost two weeks? The mayor inserting himself with a strange tweet, sending people off looking for some mystery man? I’m sure there’s more, but all of this points to someone being a manipulator, and since it’s Terri’s neck hanging out right now, I don’t think it was her doing the manipulating, so who was and why?

    I know KH is a control freak, but I’m not sure he was the one in control either. Someone else has been calling the shots since day one, JMO.

  38. vw says:

    @Rose

    Read this report?

    http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2008/01/FINAL%20GIUSTO%20Investigative%20Report%20%231%2001%2016%2008.pdf

    “When asked if seeing O’DONNELL’s ex-wife created problems for RITCHIE and him at work, and because he was a supervisor and O’DONNELL was a subordinate, RITCHIE stated that there were “not incredible difficulties” because GRAHAM had ordered him not to see O’DONNELL, talk to him or go anywhere near him.919 RITCHIE felt that GRAHAM was collecting a file on him for discipline for seeing O’DONNELL’s ex-wife. RITCHIE stated there was never an investigation on the matter.
    When asked if his seeing O’DONNELL’s ex-wife created problem at work because he was a supervisor, RITCHIE stated he was never O’DONNELL’s supervisor.920 When asked if his relationship caused friction among other officers RITCHIE affirmed it had. When asked if there were consequences as a result of his relationship, RITCHIE stated there were indirect consequences, such as another officer witnessing O’DONNELL in front of their place of employment with a gun and threatening to kill RITCHIE.921 RITCHIE stated that Laura, O’DONNELL’s ex-wife, filed for a restraining order which was subsequently entered as a civil agreement.’

  39. vw says:

    Blink says,

    I have to say, I am shocked that I keep hearing this call redacted and out of context. That is a journalistic no-no. She previously referred to him as her grandson- I would be willing to bet Houze told her specifically not to mention him by name.
    B

    I am, too, Blink. This is so unfair to Carol. She first referred to protesters as tresspassers who were outside her home and referring to her “grandson”. She later, as a pronoun antecedent referred to Kyron as “the boy’”.

    The tresspassers (and I have a picture from KPTV that shows feet-on-the-ground-of-property) then extrapolated and took the pronoun out of context, as you stated.

    Journalists like Lynne Terry should have had the professionalism to clear this up. Instead she furthers the fire with a bogus “new tip” that is based on NOTHING except some vague “Doors-are-opening-any-day” picture of someone who “might” look like Kyron shown to DY at an unknown date.

    This is the sole result of Bhatia and other Newhouse, inc execs revamping of the Oregonian to encourage “hits” rather than journalism. I hope he does get the job in Nebraska. Good riddance.

  40. vw says:

    Rose says:
    November 30, 2013 at 2:21 am
    Moreover, the timing of chalk&stalk was highly strategic on D and her sisters’ part & raises my estimate of their intelligence. (Sorry, but true.) If TM went fir an DO, Desiree would be contesting it, & likely winning, just before the hearing re visitation. Why winning? The RO magistrate is not going to find a coffee club chalking public property rises to an RO level imo without more. There was not even a police citation. (Doubtless TY advised the sisterly trio of same.) Imagine the Lynne Terry headlines wben D won the RO litigation just before the custody hearing. Imo it would be falling into a PD’s trap.

    Rose,
    IMO,They will stay the course. It’s a winning one. You’re right that derailing was the purpose of the wailing wall of colorful tried-and-true slogans.
    That picture for the cameras, with banners and photos facing away from the house, says it all.

  41. T. Ruth says:

    You know, it’s hard for a Grand Jury to indict on a ham sandwich, when all they’ve been fed is a bunch of baloney.

    (Sorry, just my mind tonight, so I’ll leave it at that.)

  42. Rose says:

    makes sense Houze would’ve instructed a Moulton place all 911 calls & K not be mentioned by name
    so the call could not be surpressed as “part of the investigation”

    Yep, would have been my advice.
    B

  43. GraceintheHills says:

    Rose says:
    December 1, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    Rose, I believe the FBI had boots on the ground at Skyline in those first 24 hours, and I recall reading that the agents were focusing on the victimology profile of Kyron, not the parents or teachers.

    That it took almost four years for the McStay family to be found, gives me hope that Kyron will be found one day.

  44. GeorgiaDad says:

    My observation has been that men with multiple marriages tend to marry the “same woman” over and over again. It may be a younger or thinner, or somehow newer model, but subsequent wives are frequently very similar to the first wife (or girlfriend). I suspect that if we could separate DY and TMH from the ongoing events of K’s disappearance, they would be very much alike. DY is not angelic, nor is TMH demonic.

    When looking at this case, I frequently catch myself associating the main adult characters with people I am familiar with, and I suspect many of us do. I see TMH as someone with self-esteem issues that may respond to accusations with counter-attack not reasoned response, with the result that she “looks guilty”. I see OCD traits in DY that have caused her to fixate of TMH (and KH) as the source of all of her difficulties. To be honest, however, I do not know these things with any certainty, it is just my experience that people with certain behaviors also exhibit related behaviors. It is, however, anecdotal experience, and my experiences may be quite different from those of others.

    I doubt TMH gets a restraining order against DY because it would be bad PR.

    CM’s statement about “the boy” doesn’t bother me one bit. I deal with people from all walks of life and different geographic origins, and recognize that some people just speak using those terms (even Cousin Eddie in “Christmas Vacation” refers to his son as “the boy).

    As for as Patricia’s question about why this case remains hot after several years, I think there are two components:
    1) When we drop off our kids at school, we don’t expect them to disappear without a clue, a parent’s worse nightmare, and
    2) The ongoing soap opera which has come to vastly over-shadow the actual disappearance.

  45. cd says:

    GeorgiaDad says:
    December 2, 2013 at 10:46 am
    My observation has been that men with multiple marriages tend to marry the “same woman” over and over again. It may be a younger or thinner, or somehow newer model, but subsequent wives are frequently very similar to the first wife (or girlfriend). I suspect that if we could separate DY and TMH from the ongoing events of K’s disappearance, they would be very much alike. DY is not angelic, nor is TMH demonic.
    ——————
    I have always wondered in as much as Kaine seems to be very possessive of his children why he would leave DY 8 months Pregnant when all he had to do was stick it out 1 more month. I feel that either he was incredibly in love with TH or the or there was some dynamic between him and DY that he just could not tolerate.
    I am not surprised that he and DY are still not able to work together. Maybe that is the reason why he allowed all of his communication with DY to be funneled through TH. DY would not have realized that that was the case and blame TH for inserting herself in the middle.

  46. Amys Sister says:

    These are the potentials as I see them in order of likelihood:

    Terri- either fore planned with help, acted alone, or unknowingly aided SZ
    Kaine- unknowingly aided SZ
    School Staff Member- knew Kyron as an easy target, did or did not know Terri or Kaine
    Member of LE- knew Terri, knew Kaine, did or did not know Kyron
    Stranger- did not know any Horman family member nor was staffed at the school or with LE

    There is very little we will know for certain without more information given by LE or witnesses. What we do know:

    -Kyron was taken from Skyline.
    -Kyron was marked absent.
    -Kyron’s project was dropped off the day before.
    -IT and phone information was deleted from Skyline records sometime afterward.
    -All parents agree Kyron’s behavior had changed prior to him missing.
    -James moved out of the Horman home earlier in the year.
    -KH and TH both frequented gyms.
    -A steroid investigation which included use by LE was ongoing during the Horman marriage decline and was coming to a head at the time Kyron was taken.
    -The day Kyron disappeared there was a Sheriff memorial in a nearby town.
    -Several large scale porn busts, to include local men, at least one of whom was working in Portland schools, have occurred directly after and since.
    -A mysterious landscaper played some role in the family dynamics
    -Elsie and her two children disappeared days before Kyron did and are in some way related to said landscaper.
    -Javier Trejo Richarte’s body was found on Skyline Blvd.
    -David Durham began acting strange after Kyron’s disappearance. He eventually shot an officer then disappeared though no correlation between he and the Horman’s has been made public.

    These are a few things that cannot be misinterpreted. They stand alone. Some or none may be related.

    If we are able to stay focused on un-obfuscated facts a clearer image may appear. Does anyone have any facts I have forgotten? Facts that do not stem from a he said/she said?

  47. Rose says:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/terri_horman_to_seek_frequent.html#incart_river
    Statement below is just extraordinary. Goes against theory & practice in the field of cpsd imo:
    “After not seeing her mother since June 2010, it would be harmful for Kiara to resume contact with Terri Horman, Kaine Horman’s lawyers are expected to contend.”

    I have not looked up current resources, but likely as Univ Wash Seattle hired on faculty PhD grads from leadership U Mich in child abuse/neglect, & child welfare/family practice field, in my day, the U Wash School of Social Work is likely the best local/regional source for expert testifiers on this particular question.
    Engel’s position is so far afield as to be classified as turd talk.

  48. Rose says:

    imo this position alone dramatizes a mental defect
    of some sort in Mr Horman.
    A Court will have to take him in hand.
    Sadly, the verdict is out wrt J Kantor’s own
    family Court inexperience, lack of psychological knowledge
    of the young child, and/or misogeny.

  49. Rose says:

    I had parents on my caseload, imprisoned & not seeing their children in several years, who had a reunification visitation plan on release, and who achieved eventual residential custody with supervision. The govt really can’t “keep” people’s children, particularly when there is no evidence of neglect or abuse at all, tho the govt can set conditions & supervise if it choses. Kaine needs to start treating this as an ordinary divorce.

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