Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued ©
S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime
DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman
In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher, she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court. Unofficially cleared, that is.
Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley, who have since refused all local media requests, would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.
Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide. While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously, her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.
As was proven not only by her recent polygraph, but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place, Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.
The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.
Stoy: So, in your estimation then, why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.
Spicher: I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons. I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with. He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc. I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name. As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order, she was also told that
Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that? I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.
Spicher: No. I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th. I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.
Stoy: ok, sorry, continue. So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?
Spicher: They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding. It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June, and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March. So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?
To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.
Stoy: Which was?
Spicher: At first, I think that they really believed I was involved, and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was, and my vehicle never left, nor did I. They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.
Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case, they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?
Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect. I never felt that way, but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever, but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.
Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?
Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did. To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning. I would ask like who do you mean, because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this. I was scared and it turned out it was good reason. I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.
Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice? Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that. People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies. I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative. In fact, Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly. So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.
Spicher: (laughs) Interesting. I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.
Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?
Spicher: No, do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?
Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?
Spicher: I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house. Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.
Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?
Spicher: That’s it, yes, him. Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?
Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through, and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you. If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information, I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?
Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.
Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back , considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work? What did your attorney say when you told him?
Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney, but to answer your question as to my opinion, I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction. After more thought, and other conversations, I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible. What is your opinion on it?
Stoy: I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece. Again, not wanting to temper your opinions as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did. Is that ok with you?
Spicher: Sure, thank you.
Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion. I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman. Is that correct?
Spicher: Correct, ok.
Stoy: Did they ask you this?
Spicher: Who is they? You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).
Stoy: Fair point, you’re right. The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor. Allow me to rephrase please. Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?
Spicher: Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?
Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?
Spicher: (laughs) touche’ . I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids. I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.
Stoy: Why shock you?
Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing” and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well, impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.
Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct? That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc. And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?
Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury. But yes, that is what she told me. I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her. To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement . I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case, but yes, they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are. But that is my assumption.
Stoy: Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home? Spicher: I am not sure about the exclusive use part, I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.
Stoy: Ok. Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory. By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.
Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.
Stoy: How would you know that?
Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request. She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids. I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.
Stoy: ok, understood, we will get back to that. I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.” Do you recall what year, even ballpark.
Spicher: I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005, and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.
Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine, I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help. Do you remember where you were during the conversation.
Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell, Terri had a lot of drama, and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know, we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.
Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?
Spicher: Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention. It was either during that call or at the lunch. Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.
Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?
Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.
Stoy: Got it. What did she say
Spicher: She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”. She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her. She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller. The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him. I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.
Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from? Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?
SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.
Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person? Sort of like… she gets approval to remain anonymous, she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?
Spicher: Yes, something like that. Except and again, we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out. The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact. From what I recall, I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.
Stoy: Understood, so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day, but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.
Spicher: Yes, I think so.
Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice. I don’t think so because she did not ask for any. So then what? Did Kaine find out?
Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy, and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day. If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember, that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.
Stoy: Ok. Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?
Spicher: Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed, it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing. She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office. We did.
Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what? Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served, in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le, but it would surprise me. Terri was always very family centric. She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing, this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.
Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: No, not at all.
Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?
Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper. He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.
Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting” and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”
Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.
Stoy: She specifically said the FBI, who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.
Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.
Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?
Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?
Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?
It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years. The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier. As a strong argument for the trickle down effect, Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle, was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report. A former Sheriff, Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications. The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place. Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.
In fact, Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.
MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.
The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell. O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.
There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.
In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week, it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.
It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan, the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.
Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.
After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption tipping other’s off in the alleged ring , Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso, Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested. The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike. The specifics of which were sealed by the court. It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.
Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids? How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?
“… Jackson, through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”
“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest. He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”
On June 3rd, 2010, approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance, Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.
From the Indictment:
Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden. Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products. Worden has never been charged.
Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and
841(b)( 1)(E).
The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).
The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin, a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.
According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.
From Buff To Puff
In contrast to Jackson, although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement, William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon” cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.
In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote, “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”
Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way. Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client, was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.
John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case, sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well. Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question. Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason. The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.
“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”
Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.
Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.
On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.
Andrew Millbrooke filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby, Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot. In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy. The suit is pending. A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion. Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].
With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against Traverso were dismissed this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.
Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation. Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.
As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .
Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.
However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids, but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.
“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.
“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.
He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.
At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”
S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.
The source, an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…” “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…” The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.
Reached for comment, Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.
A request for comment to Mr. Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.
More Questions Than Answers..
Following several hours of interviews with DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?
Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.
She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”
She was not.
Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself. Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.
Through Spicher, Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness” which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc, Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th. His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.
Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought. Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.
Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous. Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom, to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.
To her knowledge, there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.
In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.
Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:
“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”
Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators. One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer, at their own expense The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.
“… This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.
The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”
I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange. She had. I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.
Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion. Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.
I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home. She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.
Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?
Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.
Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper? I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen, and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.
Spicher: No, it wasn’t. Kaine bought it. It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property. I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home. I mean, like cleaning the gutters, cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing. To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.
Stoy: With a baby, 7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that? No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help. I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.
Spicher: No, Terri had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children. I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money. I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage. One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that. I believe the other was the landscaper.
Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.
Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that? But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.
Stoy: Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?
Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].
Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement. Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you. Are you angry about that?
Spicher: O my no. That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine. I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can.. I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them. I really pray that Kyron will be found, I choose to put my energy into hope for that.
Pending Matters
Through Attorney Bunch, Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday, Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.
Early this afternoon, a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.
A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013
Jacqueline Beaufort, Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.
Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.
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Grace, I appreciate that you continually bring the topic back to center and keep it balanced.
_____
Neither side, Terri and Dede included, are without their own issues and faults in this matter.
The behavior of these two women has only encouraged public perception of their guilt. From the smug looks Dede gave cameras after the grand jury meet to the juvenile behavior exhibited in the texts it gave the appearance that neither woman was concerned Kyron was missing and set the tone for any ill will toward them.
It did not help that they fell silent for years, though that becomes more understandable given LE actions as described by Dede and Blink.
Now we have Desiree further creating a divide between encouraging hatred of Terri and giving others (me included) more reason to feel empathy for Terri and her family.
If I knew Terri personally I know I would not care for her. She took a man’s money for years for a child he did not biologically father. When he wanted to talk to her about the hardship it created for him financially she called the police on him. I don’t care if he did adopt, it was wrong. He wanted a family, even paid for her education and adopted her son, then she left him and sued for more money. Though this is not the type of character I would ever choose to associate with it’s clear that there has been a campaign against her and LE really doesn’t seem to have the evidence to justify that campaign. No one, I don’t care how unlikable, deserves that.
As so many have pointed out, Kiara was taken from her mother. I believed LE and Kaine did so on good faith. To discover it was probably only a method used to try and solve the case of Kyron’s disappearance is beyond disheartening.
I do see the swing toward public support of the position Terri is in and less sympathy for Desiree. Desiree is bringing it on herself with her hateful actions that really will not contribute to finding her son. If LE cannot bring an arrest Terri will be given even more public support which may lead to a very profitable future for her.
It seems this was all destined. No one ever could have predicted the outcomes. It’s a spiral of outrageousness on all parts and from every conceivable corner of involvement.
For me it’s become a just sit back and wait and see. And even then I’m not sure I’ll trust any of it to be real and true. Too many half truths, too much silence, too much time gone by.
Meanwhile some evil perp is sitting back, dry eyed and full of himself, inwardly feeling giddy that the jesters are all entertaining him. Between what Terri probably does know and won’t share, Desiree and Kaine’s refusal to admit he exists, the schools need to protect themselves, and investigators refusal to bring in the big dogs for a redo I imagine he’s surprised at his own luck in the matter.
Kyron has been placed on a back burner so that everyone else’s issues and stakes could be protected, and I mean everyone. Every single party engaged in this has not been working for Kyron’s best interest. They’ve probably led themselves to believe they have but they have not. This baby was born into a life where he was never a priority and the same is true in what is likely his death.
I do believe there are a handful of investigators who really do want justice for this boy, who probably eat breathe and sleep this case, even all these years later. It is with them my hope lies and with them the perp loses a little sleep at night.
Sorry ’bout the soap box, I’m sort of thinking myself through to where we are now.
I read every comment here and honestly respect each person behind them. Hope you all have many things to be thankful for and that you’re able to share tomorrow’s festivities with friends and family surrounded by love.
Okay Im gonna be a board hog for a while I apologize for the length in advance but you know me and even when I dont have alot to say I use too many words -
First to Rose
thanks for your kind comment on my post- you wrote:
Mom 3.0. You wrote the best reasoned post ever.
Sadly, I do not think the reasoning you offer
moves DY, & the Team she has attracted & sanctioned
& received money from on gofundme. Imo her actions
post abduction are likely a continuum with prior psychological
functioning.
—
My post was one of warning and it seems that what I feared is playing out
Desiree is doing damage to herself, to the investigation , to kaine to kyron and Kiara – I dont think at this point she can step back and see it though
as redrose wrote and I agree:
“People do really desperate things in their unending grief. Everyone is hurt.”
Rose
Sadly I dont think she is able to hear anything at this point I think she is constantly under siege of the horrible what ifs that she believes Terri is at the heart of- It is like a constant onset of shock he ringing in the ears that blocks out all contrary noise- and reasoning-
I think there is a big chance that her husband and LE and her therapist have tried to supply her with other info and avenues but she can not hear it.
I think she will only hear that which underscores her belief that Terri did it or had something to do with it-
That is not to say that LE has ruled out all avenues that could involve Terri Blink cant either- but unlike LE and Blink who can objectively look at contrary info Desiree understandably has lost all objectivity
and will not can not especially with her friends lending their support to her misguided attempts to get the BG
I think that her “team” as you call them are not on her side nor are they on Kyrons- because friends do not incite others to this harmful behavior- they just dont-
Its one thing to hold a candle light vigil even in front of the home- its one thing to hold signs for your missing son and invite the media in the hopes that the coverage will bring further notice to Kyron and the investigation.
Its an entirely different thing to go there and harrass basically help the person we are to believe is the BG to become the victim Desiree claims she isnt and never was-
Desiree is giving everyone second thoughts and as far as I know you cant come away from the latest not feeling some sympathy for Terri-
How does desiree think this is effecting the GJ?
snipped
“Not having the answers, it’s turmoil,” said Young. “I can’t solve the case. I can’t get law enforcement to solve the case. I can’t get law enforcement to arrest her, but I can stand out in front of her house and remind her of the reason we’re here, and we’re going to be here every day.”
–
I can see she is tortured, devastated and in horrible turmoil – but honestly this isnt helping her to get the answers
it isnt helping her to solve the case
it isnt helping LE to solve the case
it isnt helping Kyron
it isnt helping that little boy in the picture or the countless others she has been asked to identify…
it isnt getting LE any closer to arresting Terri although I fear it may be escalating to the point that Desiree will be arrested
and I doubt terri whether innocent or guilt needs any reminding of Kyron
So what is the reason Desiree is there if not just to exact some form of vengeance or to harass
this doesnt look good and nothing good came from this action nothing at all and I dont think the consequences have come to light as of yet for desiree- but it certainly seems this action it only could benefit helping Terri in the long run and I dont believe that is the “reason” Desiree was there
AJMO
RE VW says:
thanks for yr support Vw
You wrote in part
You go girl….She needs to let it go. She doesn’t need to “break” Kaine or TMH anymore.
They are already broken.
I agree she and they are already broken but I disagree she needs to let it go- how can she when her baby is still missing and she is still so involved looking at photos of kids etc…she does need to better channel her need to help in more positive ways however – thats easy for me to say though as I am not in her shoes and I pray i will never be.
RE VW says:
November 25, 2013 at 2:12 am http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-kyron-horman-investigation-exclusive-dede-spicher-interview-yields-allegations-of-illegal-steroid-use-terri-horman-took-to-police/comment-page-58/#comments
snipped:
Blink,
First off, unbelievable that DY has stooped this low. But, really, where does DY go from “there”….a betrayed wife and birth mother of a missing son raised by a stepmom (with her sanctions and gratitute originally).
___ To me it isnt unbelievable that Desiree is this low- not stooped but just beaten and weary and angry and sad- She is at her rock bottom she has lost her son, he is no where to be found- LEs assurances and promises seem not to have come to pass- and part of the reason she is so low and defeated is because of the fact that she believes in her heart that Terri the woman she entrusted Kyron with did him harm or worked in conjunction with someone who hurt him and took him away-
She says she will never be able to forgive herself for not fighting harder for custody for not hearing the warning signs so NO I do not find it unbelievable that she has fallen so low.
It is not unbelievable to me she is doing what she believes is right- she is simply not thinking straight and her “team” is not helping her to think straight and in truth LE is not helping her to think straight- how can she let this go, the notion that Terri did it or had something to do with it- if LE can not or will not move away from this believe or fact? and Her friends are not helping her.
Blink wrote in response to yr post in part:
.
Im not sure I am blaming DY for her stability issues at this point- I think I am blaming those egging her on instead of encouraging her to be working with a qualified therapist.
B
—
Agreed Blink this is not a good bunch of people who are looking at for desirees best interests or the best interests of Ky or the investigation
AJMO
Peace
@GraceintheHills says:
November 27, 2013 at 12:29 pm
Does anyone here know *exactly* what DY and her supporters did at TH’s workplace? I cannot imagine any business letting them come onto the property and disrupt their employees’ work.
(snipped)
**********
Gracie, according to Desiree:
Young said the group went to the place where Terri Horman now works, tacking up fliers and speaking to people about Kyron and Terri Horman.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/11/kyron_hormans_mother_desiree_y_1.html
RE GraceintheHills says:
November 25, 2013 at 3:56 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi all, well, I’ll say this about that. If TMH is innocent and has been cleared by the MCSO of any involvement in this case, then THEY need to tell DY so she can “let it go.” Otherwise, if TMH is still a suspect, DY will understandably not “let it go” until justice is served.
DY’s behavior actually pales in comparison to some other mothers whose children have been killed or abducted. In my neck of the woods, one such mother launched a huge campaign against the alleged perp who killed her daughter. She wrote him notes, cards, email, called his friends, and put signs up accusing him of the murder. When he was finally arrested and tried, the defense attorney kept this mom on the stand for two whole days trying to prove the mom had turned the whole community against his client. His client was found guilty.
Grace thanks for this post- you can say so much with so few words I am in awe-
—I agree with your point but I fear that those that desiree is befriending take this to another level as this isnt Desiree writing letters or standing outside alone or venting on FB, etc she is with people who are clearly not as nice as they would have Desiree believe- and she clearly thinks of them as having her back looking out for her,supporting her and I just fear
they are in it for the drama and the notoriety.
I sincerely wish LE would clear teri or arrest her instead of placing Desiree and Kaine in this purgatory ( not to mention Terri if she is innocent)
Honestly I do not think I could keep myself from acting out physically if I believed and if LE was seemingly believing that the perp was someone i knew and who I could get my hands on…
This whole thing is sad and scary and I do not blame Desiree for feeling this way or acting this way- but nows the time before it escalates to try to let her know what she doing isnt helping and it can only harm herself and her son and the investigation as well as the other crt cases pending,
including the GJ
I mean if it were you and I on that blog or in that circle of “friends” regardless if we felt adamantly that terri was guilty or not, I doubt we would support Desirees latest actions and the chance for escalating actions via the element of “surprise”- wouldnt we try to steer her to more positive actions and behaviors?
wouldnt we be a shoulder for her, and a support for her without sticking our heines in the camera… without going to teris work place? IDk Id hope so- not that she would listen but I think we would try for her sake for Kyrons sake and for the investigations sake ya know?
You know as yr twin I think alot like you and still do, you are an awesome advocate and critical thinker and I cant wait to read each and every word of yr posts
But in this instance I just fear for desiree for the investigation and for terri- this cant end well especially if LE never gets that indictment or that one piece of evidence or the perp or Kyron home.
AJMO
Peace
still being a b.hog sorry
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-kyron-horman-investigation-exclusive-dede-spicher-interview-yields-allegations-of-illegal-steroid-use-terri-horman-took-to-police/comment-page-59/#comments
Re T. Ruth says: snipped
November 25, 2013 at 8:44 pm
IMO, the only way Desiree is not going to suspect Terri, is if they find Kyron and find the perp and it is not, nor has anything to do with Terri.
You are right IMO
You asked:
So here’s my question. Why? Why does Desiree Young have such a hard time believing that Terri may have nothing to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
I think she has such a hard time believing that Terri may have nothing to do with Kyron’s disappearance because LE shared some info with her that she and they are unable to simply overlook and (even if they have since moved on she is stuck there)…….
I would think this goes for kaine also – and even for those that arent privy to the inside LE info – just know what we know- many are still unable to rule terri out entirely as possibly having something to do with kyrons disappearance even when SZ is in play…
this would seem to be true for Blink and other critical thinking persons some in the profession- and others just observers who can not rule out terri as having something to do with Kyrons disappearance based on known info
So can we really question why Desiree would have a hard time in disregarding the possibility since it is her child and it seems that the info she has leads her to hold on to the notion…since we dont know what it is or what LE has then perhaps Desiree is holding on to this belief because it may be true…IDK
You wrote:
She herself at one time said that Terri was good to Kyron, gave him what he needed. Even Kaine at one time said Terri may have had nothing to do with this, so where is this all coming from?
I believe it came from LE to start, and the info she has seen and interpeted, added with hindsight and fear she is focused on that which would fit and not necessarily back when it didnt fit..if that makes sense?
I think this is why she is so distraught because she did believe terri was loving to Ky, and kaine believed it too, and IF Terri did have something to do with this then it is the ultimate betrayal of not only a childs love but of a bio parents trust.
We dont know what they know we dont know what theyve seen we dont know what LE knows either or where they are in the investigation who theyve looked at ruled out focused on etc
You: Why is it she can’t see other possibilities?
IMO Because what she was told and what she sees in hindsight with fear self blame and some unknown inside knowledge leads her to not entertain other possibilities.
You wrote:
She can’t see a stranger walking into an open campus at the school and snatching Kyron?
Blink said it best PP to believe terri is not in the know in some way or isnt to blame in some way- leads to the realization that no one knows what happened to Ky -no one knows who took Kyron or why and it leads to the thinking of what the poor tree frog loving 7 year old had to endure or still may be subjected to under the thumb of unknown sicko/S
You wrote:
She can’t see some person abusing Kyron and then attempting to cover it up by abducting Kyron, when she herself knows his behavior had been off for over a year?
No I wouldnt think so not without including Terri in on it to some degree- and Kaine perhaps that is why she cant forgive herself or them as they all in her eyes failed Ky and to believe it was a failure to protect him against an ongoing outside BG would IMO be worse than just a one time horrible event…
You wrote:
She has been told the evidence points away from Terri, why is it she cannot see this?
TMK she was told this by a guest of the Dr Phil show who prefaced this comment by saying PP from all I have seen and heard the evidence points away from Terri- as far as I know this guest had no inside link to LE and the investigation and if he reviewed all info we are all privy to, and he came away claiming there was no evidence to include circumstantial which points to terri or her involvement than we all know this is not so- for there is circumstantial evidence that when reviewed could point to her having some involvement to understand this one need only to review the the reads here on BOC
further snipped:
You wrote:
And I will NEVER understand why TY lets her do this childish crap.
Because regardless if terri is innocent or guilty her Lawyer has to understand that all of this “crap” only tends to prove their claims and garners much needed sympathy for their client
You wrote:
As someone said upthread, if Terri is guilty, she & TY have done more harm to this case than good. And these actions certainly aren’t helping to find Kyron one way or the other.Did anyone see the movie “Prisoners” this past summer? Taking the law into your own hands is not the answe
That was me TRuth..
and I agree although I havent seen the movie: Taking the law into your own hands is not the answer.
Thanks for letting me weigh in
AJMO Peace
@Grace, I appreciate your response. From my POV, if the evidence is not good enough to prosecute now, it won’t be good enough to prosecute later. The perceived threat of her “imminent arrest” has gone from 50/50 (in her fathers words) to her leaving a divorce hearing with a smile on her face. Her lawyer believes her to be innocent. The chances of an immunity deal with a guilty person only works with the threat of an arrest, and successful prosecution. OTOH, An innocent person might accept immunity to progress the case and clear their name. (She might need immunity for something as simple as steroid distribution. DDS needed it for a tax issue.)
What is the objective?
Pick one:
a) Find Kyron
b) prosecute TH, no matter how long it takes, if ever.
JMO.
In my state, we had to give up the DP on Gary Ridgeway aka Green River killer, in order to locate the bodies of the people he murdered. Not a perfect world, LE’s aren’t psychic or super hero’s and prosecutors with perfectly good evidence lose cases all the time. To me, it’s time to look at what is really important, which IMO is finding out what happened to this little boy, and I don’t see that happening with the communication breakdown. They are all isolated, and should be working together. I don’t think anyone benefits from cold case hell.
Forgive my cynicism, but Desiree’s father’s envious statement wrt Kaine’s Foundation & fundraising has never left me.
And Kelly’s fundraising site had had no activity for a month, the most frequent contributions then by 1 person @ $20 each. Since her “demonstration,” c $200 has arrived & it’s the giving season.
So my thought was frankly her sister seems her biggest influence, so maybe Kaine’s Fpundation was doing it’s usual Fundraising & awareness work, and the sisters have no love lost on him & were simply competitively stealing his media thunder. So sure enough Loch Lolly yearly event advert went out Nov 20, and this Monday “Decorate the Wall of Hope tree.” My since is DY’s media competition is with Kaine, not the silent Terri.
sense
GraceintheHills says:
November 27, 2013 at 12:35 pm
Blink, I am not understanding why you think DY would be called to testify in TH and KH’s custody hearing. Ex-wives, in my experience, are rarely called as they often have very little to add and can be inflammatory.
———
IMO
Maybe DY believes that by ruining TH chances at employment with bad press and spreading her accusations at TH’s current job site that she might get called to testify in the divorce. They would probably want show that that TH is not able to support herself based on Public opinion/harassment from DY and needs alimony.
Even if an employer did not think TH was guilty of anything they still would not want a bunch of nut cases hanging around their place of business shouting threats and defacing the sidewalk in front of their location. So they might hesitate to have TH work for them.
If Dy gets called to testify in TH’s divorce then she will be able to trash TH from the court room. While it will not help Kaines situation it will give DY media time and the ear of the public in her on going quest to vilify TH to any who will listen.
Perhaps I am the only who thinks that Desiree doth protest too much:
The quotation “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” comes from Shakespeare’s Hamlet, act III, scene II, where it is spoken by Queen Gertrude, Hamlet’s mother. In Shakespeare’s time, “protest” meant “vow” or “declare solemnly”. The context is a play within a play, and the Queen criticizes the Player Queen’s speech on the grounds that excessive avowal of her plan to not remarry after the Player King’s death sounds hollow and insincere. Today, “protest” means “declare an objection”, so the phrase has come to mean that one can “insist so passionately about something not being true that people suspect the opposite of what one is saying.”[1]
ooops, forgot the (yes I know it’s wiki) link, I was just in a hurry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lady_doth_protest_too_much,_methinks
Something is pushing my buttons in this regard. I am wondering now if Desiree is being somehow coerced into this madness. Coerced may be the wrong word, how about conned?
If these ladies and DY appear at TH’s work place a second time, the owner of the company could call the police and have every one of them arrested. If they defaced property with chalk, paint or placed posters without permission there could be additional charges.
This is not the way to solve the case. The best opportunity to get it solved passed within thirty days of the crime. It should now be given to an experienced team of cold case experts. New eyes with open minds could make a big difference.
who Admins the supposedly neutral Missing KH FB page?
Admin todsy posted a request (again) to please to give $ to Desiree,
followed by a picture of the Moulton’s culdesac which really
shows the chalking/standing intrusion proximityto near neighbors.
Imo it is so in neighbors’ faces as to be offensive. If it were my Town,
& I was the neighbor, I’d be calling police & outside insisting
police issue a warning citation for disturbing the peace.
Missing KH FB is proud of it. Imo, bottom line, this is another stalking/hate site.
So disappointed in them. Wasn’t an Adelstein wife involved in setting up this site?
Who are these Admins, site owners?
Is that site tied directly to Kaine or am I confused? If it is, the case can and will be made he is in violation of the RO. I honestly don’t see him supporting that activity or DY in any way.
B
T. Ruth says:
November 27, 2013 at 6:31 pm
@GraceintheHills says:
November 27, 2013 at 12:29 pm
Does anyone here know *exactly* what DY and her supporters did at TH’s workplace? I cannot imagine any business letting them come onto the property and disrupt their employees’ work.
(snipped)
**********
A poster at O Live who seems very familiar with TH said that TH is not employed at the present time. I don’t know if this is true or not, but the poster was quite emphatic.
Gracie, according to Desiree:
Young said the group went to the place where Terri Horman now works, tacking up fliers and speaking to people about Kyron and Terri Horman.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks so much, TRuth. I had read that but wondered if anyone could be more specific about what allegedly happened at the alleged workplace.
up to ensure dau makes a 3:30 cab.
TY TRuth for a literary reference. Just finished reading about the J Joyce family thanks to today’s nytimes cword.
wrt to DY’s “excessive passion” as to TH’s guilt, imo Desiree’s actions are due to black & white thinking,
external influences, & her feeling of being left out of the investigation, more than any knowledge-base.
Propelled by a desperate need for resolution where none is to be had. Personally, I’m thinking
donated family therapy by a grief counselor for her family of origin would be a kindness.
ATG. You are a comforting reminder of my long lost TX.
Hard to believe this statement to be true. I thought they suspected her almost immediately.
T. Ruth says:
November 27, 2013 at 1:57 pm
From Kate Snow Interview
snip>
Desiree and Tony also say the alleged murder-for-hire plot was a turning point for them, the point when they went from being suspicious to being convinced.
Guess I should have gone a step further on my thought. DY said she had a gut feeling all along. I think they were convinced long before the MFH, but in their mind (which might be part of the problem now) they considered the MFH as evidence of TH’s guilt. If the DA doesn’t have enough to prosecute on the mfh, it begs the question how they are anywhere near finding Kyron, or prosecuting TH.
I think the mfh accusation was always everyone’s “justification” for TMH suspect status. I noticed that never came up on Fillibuster.
It is true from an investigative perspective that if proven, if someone legitimately would be willing to off their spouse it is conceivable that mindset could easily transfer to a child not their own. That said, y’all know I have never bought into LE ever having a case for that- even circumstantially, past RSE’s word, if in fact he ever actually made the claim.
Wanted to remind all on this point- although we know there was a 911 call made in December by TMH- we don’t know the content except we know that ems was dispatched, right? We DO KNOW that KH’s affidavit for the RO states he did not know when or by what means TMH tried to off him and that he was never injured or hospitalized by it.
Point is, that would mean that call has nothing to do with the mfh allegation.
So what happened?
B
Mom 3.0 says:
November 27, 2013 at 6:05 pm
RE VW says:
thanks for yr support Vw
You wrote in part
You go girl….She needs to let it go. She doesn’t need to “break” Kaine or TMH anymore.
They are already broken.
I agree she and they are already broken but I disagree she needs to let it go- how can she when her baby is still missing and she is still so involved looking at photos of kids etc…she does need to better channel her need to help in more positive ways however – thats easy for me to say though as I am not in her shoes and I pray i will never be.
Mom….thanks for your reply and I agree with almost EVERYTHING you are saying. But I don’t think that LE, nor her “hater” friends that want to chalk and stalk the home of the people who raised Kyron for five years, are her best friendsies, as you, too, suggest.
I think, sometimes (in my more generous thoughts) that Desiree Young has been lead by LE and by the media and by Kaine and by even her own hubby to beieve something that she would never have considered on June 3rd. Not for a second.
And I believe she is very, well, gullible at best. If LE is suggesting, via Staton, that these emails suggest that she could have committed or abetted a murder/trafficking of her son because she might have said she “hated” having to deal with him…yes, she was taken in.
I, personally, don’t believe that is the case. I don’t know TMH, and think she might have her own insecurity and men issues. But from what I have seen of her FB and heard of her via testimonials, and know of her life…she strikes me as a woman who has worked for what she has, and has always been proud of and caring of her children…Kyron included..(although he may have had more issues than James or Kiara….school-wise).
If I were to make an educated guess, Kyron had not only vision but possibly add or Autism issues. That is tough to deal with as a mom. Especially a step-mom who is the only one getting him glasses and working with his teacher to make sure he achieves his potential academically.
Please note that Carol said it was TMH that helped him do the frog experiment. Kaine just “hugged” him and told him to have a great day. (Bet Kaine that morning didn’t even know what the project was on). Kaine didn’t know the academic rational behind the parent-teacher program with the card system. But i’ll bet TMH could tell you the precise difference between and red or yellow card.
But back to DY. Could she tell you the card system? Had she EVER talked to Porter before July 4th.
Had she ever spent time in Skyline during the three years Kyron was there? How many field trips? How many soccer games? How many child-teacher conferences? How many doctor’s appointments? How many times did she volunteer for special events at the school.
Have you EVER heard her talk about coming to Portland to spend “grandparents and/or special friends” day with Kyron at his school?
It’s only once a year. And it’s a special time to be with grandparents….or birthmoms. Did Kaine’s mom come or did TMH’s mom?
What i’m getting at…..is that DY was NEVER a hands on mom…..for those five years.
Now….she wants answers from TMH who has lawyered up and can NOT talk if she wanted to about this case.
Now…she STILL will not confront LE and MAKE THEM go talk to TMH and her lawyers?
What does she really know about what LE knows? And why is she not stalking them for answers?
Sorry, MOM, but I really have lost all sympathy for her. She is either an extreme Prima-Donna or she is a Bully in the worst sense. Beating a person who CANNOT talk back for fear of losing her daughter.
Unfortunately, she has all the “mean” girls circling her, including those coming from their own insecurities as moms of imprisoned kids who killed innocent people.
Maybe Desiree is some sort of panacea for them…if they can “help” her make TMH talk…their own inadequate lives will have meaning.
Pretty sad….swimming with sharks.
RE VW says:
November 25, 2013 at 2:12 am http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-kyron-horman-investigation-exclusive-dede-spicher-interview-yields-allegations-of-illegal-steroid-use-terri-horman-took-to-police/comment-page-58/#comments
snipped:
Blink,
First off, unbelievable that DY has stooped this low. But, really, where does DY go from “there”….a betrayed wife and birth mother of a missing son raised by a stepmom (with her sanctions and gratitute originally).
___ To me it isnt unbelievable that Desiree is this low- not stooped but just beaten and weary and angry and sad- She is at her rock bottom she has lost her son, he is no where to be found- LEs assurances and promises seem not to have come to pass- and part of the reason she is so low and defeated is because of the fact that she believes in her heart that Terri the woman she entrusted Kyron with did him harm or worked in conjunction with someone who hurt him and took him away-
She says she will never be able to forgive herself for not fighting harder for custody for not hearing the warning signs so NO I do not find it unbelievable that she has fallen so low.
It is not unbelievable to me she is doing what she believes is right- she is simply not thinking straight and her “team” is not helping her to think straight and in truth LE is not helping her to think straight- how can she let this go, the notion that Terri did it or had something to do with it- if LE can not or will not move away from this believe or fact? and Her friends are not helping her.
Blink wrote in response to yr post in part:
.
Im not sure I am blaming DY for her stability issues at this point- I think I am blaming those egging her on instead of encouraging her to be working with a qualified therapist.
B
—
Agreed Blink this is not a good bunch of people who are looking at for desirees best interests or the best interests of Ky or the inv
This situation is in danger of escalation, imo, and when TMH resumes visitation with Kitty, and I do believe she will, I have a serious concern as far as DY and that chalkandstalk crowd. DY is projecting everything that she is going through onto TMH as I see it and something needs to intervene to protect all parties, imo. A civil restraining order is just necessary at this point.
B
Rose says:
November 27, 2013 at 9:18 pm
Forgive my cynicism, but Desiree’s father’s envious statement wrt Kaine’s Foundation & fundraising has never left me.
—-Do you have a link to that? I read it once but forgot where.
And Kelly’s fundraising site had had no activity for a month,
—-Yes, duly noted. And from the ones who were with her in person, or spirit. Which has been primarily the case since the suit was dropped, and little sis changed the Pay-pal fund big-sis-suit status from Suit to baggy-up the candy wrappers and let the world know we have found “evidence” -in the 10X searched area near Skyline in the west hills.
BTW, rose. Do you remember her being questioned on why she chose that spot to send her volunteer
searchers? She mention Dede. As if Dede had given Keith and the DA THAT SPOT to search.
What a little liar. She extrapolated that from ?????? From Rosenthal mentioning that Dede was being
questioned by the GJ?
Certain she and sis look ahead constantly. What will happen to the ‘fund” if……
Thinking thankfully fed tomorrow…without needing any funding! Just have to bring a salad!
Happy Thanksgiving to you and All!
VW
IMO
I have no link to this or proof, but I think DY is making statements about this case to her group via private PM’s that are not true as a way to keep her followers loyalty and further their agitation and hated of TH and Dede.
I have read some stuff on the hater crater that suggests this to me.
“Don’t forget…..Desiree told us that Dede had a track phone on the 4th as well.
She was seen answering it and abruptly leaving the property.
And her real phone was in her truck all day.”
I will not post a link here so read or ignore. Could be total BS.
just saying
BTW
I don’t think Dede even had a truck that day. if LE had this knowledge I don’t think they would have cleared TH.
She had an Explorer and that truck was parked at the house in full view of the owner and other staff there that day. She did not have a burner phone until June 30thish. If DY is telling anyone that she did, and that she ever left that property that day she is outright lying. I do know that misinformation has been swirling around that group because I have been forwarded some of the PM’S from KR.
One of them stated that Houze showed up at her interrogation and offered to represent her pro bono and stopped the interview- can you imagine that BS.
As far as DDS being cleared- I do know that after I published efforts were made to secure a public statement indicating same from Rees. After that office and LE hounded that woman for three years and made her life and members of her family’s lives pure hell his response was.. No need, she was never a suspect.
I will say it again- she is a class act and I 1000% believe if she ever knew anything or suspected TMH capable of complicity in this she would drive her ass to the police station and tell her to come clean herself. That’s a semi-quote.
I will also say NOBODY in this case was ever found to have a burner phone until after TMH was advised by an atty that her house was bugged and her cell was in Kaine’s name- who now had an active RO against her. Again, if DY is stating differently that is false and she knows it.
I would add that even though KH and DY and co horts smeared her publicly without any basis to do so, ever, she does not have anything but compassion for them
B
cd says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
November 28, 2013 at 5:56 am
IMO
correction
I ment I don’t think they would have cleared Dede
A civil RO would need to be taken out against all appearing at chalk&stalk. Apparently there were 2 sisters, & Green & Desjardins have been Roseburg stalkers. Then there are those who post death threats on Soldiers FB, Missing KH fB (Kelly’s gofundme is listed as their website) & whatever her other sites are. I don’t go to them. The problem
is she does her organizing by email now. The RO would have to include all speech wrt TH & the Moultons including email speech.
I respectfully disagree and agree, lol.
Imo, if she sought a RO, it would likely include verbiage including either Jane Doe affiliates or actual names. This would come from the incident report- which requires LE check identification. The RO would be granted based on the “act” as it relates to statute and supporting communications is irrelevant.
B
Kelly is sending PMs stating Houze appeared at DDS interrogation to
offer to rep her pro bono? Now Stavely has been superb, &
that would be an extreme conflict of interest for Mr Ethics Houze. No attorney
would 1) go solicit someone else’s client in or out of the presence of her attorney, 2) engage in
simultaneous representation of 2 persons of interest as their interests conflict, and so on.
So, that’s not just misinfo, it’s stupid. I have no idea about Kelly or her personality or motivations, but
in my lay opinion, such pm’s would be consistant with “Borderline” type behavior: black
& white thinking & fomenting chaos & divisions. The only person I’ve taken off my mental
probable PD list based on observed public behavior alone is Terri.
No, if I put down the wrong initials, it was stated during TMH interrogation Houze showed up without so much as a consult and offered to represent her pro bono. Which was false. I find that an inflammatory example gleaned to gain favor.
B
Rose says:
November 28, 2013 at 12:54 am
who Admins the supposedly neutral Missing KH FB page?
Admin todsy posted a request (again) to please to give $ to Desiree,
followed by a picture of the Moulton’s culdesac which really
shows the chalking/standing intrusion proximityto near neighbors.
Imo it is so in neighbors’ faces as to be offensive. If it were my Town,
& I was the neighbor, I’d be calling police & outside insisting
police issue a warning citation for disturbing the peace.
Missing KH FB is proud of it. Imo, bottom line, this is another stalking/hate site.
So disappointed in them. Wasn’t an Adelstein wife involved in setting up this site?
Who are these Admins, site owners?
Blink says, Is that site tied directly to Kaine or am I confused? If it is, the case can and will be made he is in violation of the RO. I honestly don’t see him supporting that activity or DY in any way.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Blink, it is my understanding that KH is not directly linked to any of these pages.
Thank you Grace.
B
Thanks, Amy’s Sister. As my husband always says, “There are at least two sides to every story.” In this tragic case that is playing out so publicly, there are even more sides to the story. I am keeping an open mind and praying that Kyron is found. What I will never do is kick any of Kyron’s parents while they are down. The pain these parents are feeling I cannot begin to imagine. I think sometimes we forget that there but for the grace of God go any one of us who has children. My grandparents went through such unimaginable pain when my young uncle went missing and was found murdered.
Blink, iirc, the Bring Kyron Home site is run by the family – still not sure if KH is involved. I am familiar with a lot of these sites and I cannot recall KH posting on any, including the two private FB pages I am privy to.
Happy Thanksgiving to all. May God bless and keep Kyron and all who love him.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.. Procrastinating for a few minutes before I have to get up and get going!! lol
After watching DY on Dr. Phil, it was my opinion that she had been harboring pain/anger toward at least Kaine for years. Her tearful statement that Kaine had finally come clean after nine years, about cheating on her with Terri while they were still together looked to me as fresh pain.
T. Ruth asked why? IMO..
If DY, after re-marrying, continued to harbor unresolved anger toward KH and Terri, this may be what triggered her immediate reaction that Terri was responsible for Kyron. Validation that Terri was/is a bad person, responsible for all DY’s unfortunate life experiences? All her buried anger bubbled up and exploded making Terri the scape-goat.
Furthermore, when the MFHP went public, what more did DY need to seal her theory? IMO. IF LE was lying about the MFH story, they also willingly allowed DY to go somewhat off the deep end with her public rampages. They allowed Kaine to leave his marriage. They allowed Kaira to be striped from her mother for 3 years. They allowed hate-groups to form and act out. They allowed a woman’s reputation to be destroyed. Etc. etc. etc. IF, LE was lying about the MFHP, and all this time allowed it to fester.. well, all I can say is wow!
Thinking of Kyron today, and wishing the little guy was home.
@Mom 3.0 says:
November 27, 2013 at 6:35 pm
(snipped)
I mean if it were you and I on that blog or in that circle of “friends” regardless if we felt adamantly that terri was guilty or not, I doubt we would support Desirees latest actions and the chance for escalating actions via the element of “surprise”- wouldnt we try to steer her to more positive actions and behaviors?
***************
I cannot agree more with this statement. Had Terri been my good friend, and I truly believed her innocence in all of this, I would have told her immediately to STFU and go get an attorney, and waay sooner than Dede did. Yep.
If Desiree were my good fiend, I would tell her that even if Terri is guilty of disappearing Kyron, all this public harassment of Terri Horman and her family is not going to help find Kyron. It is not going to bring the answers she’s looking for. I would tell her to stop feeling guilty, it is not her fault that Kyron was abducted. I would tell her she’s doing more harm than good, if in fact, Terri is guilty, she is doing nothing but offering up more courtroom fodder for HouzeofBunches. I would tell her she’s putting Kiara in danger by encouraging the hatred and vigilantism spewing from those FB pages and remind her how she once plead to Terri to do the right thing for Kiara, Kyron’s little sister. I’d ask her take a deep breath and ask herself “what if I’m wrong?”. I’d ask her to consider the possibility of a school cover-up of a stranger abduction.
If she asked me what she could be doing to further the case, I’d tell her keep going back in time and try to figure out what may have been causing Kyron’s behavioral problems. Try to remember any and all conversations in that regard. Offer all of those up to LE. If she hasn’t already done it, make a list of everyone who ever had anything to do with Kyron, from her Medford neighbors to family and make sure each of them has been thoroughly questioned. Demand that LE turn this case over to either the PPB cold case squad, or the FBI. Sooner than later. Lastly, I would say this; all these people on FB are not really her friends, if they were, they would tell her the same thing.
“At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst.”
Aristotle
Happy Thanksgiving everyone, hold your loved ones tight and be thankful for all of them.
I see a combination of groups, and individuals, influencing DY’s thoughts and her belief that TMH is the key person in Kyron’s disappearance. DY was vulnerable to outside emotions from people who latch onto things like cliches (“evil stepmother”) or the contest, as I call it, which I detected a couple of years ago, concerning the physical appearance differences between mother and stepmother (DY was “beautiful” and the imagery of the devoted Madonna mother, while TH was “fat” and “ugly” and so forth). All of this external emotional manipulation of a very distraught mother has created who we see today — DY, simply not behaving rationally or decently.
The oddest things have been so visible in this case among the adults. First, comparing two women who actually have a lot in common, but who are pitted against each other so viciously. DY was married before TY and has 2 sons with 2 different husbands. But she is the wholesome maternal figure. TMH is married multiple times as well, with 2 children with 2 different fathers, but she’s a whore? No matter the adult sexual habits between her and KH, they did not seem to affect TMH’s daily presence as a mother and homemaker. TMH colors her hair? Uh, so do DY? She is no natural beach blonde, or, she has gone into a light brunette phase at some point. WTF is with these comparisons? They provide NO rational leads about….(wait for it…)….KYRON. This entire drama is like change of class in middle school, with the 7th grade girls in full cackle mode.
DY has indicated that when KH was being a major bastard and cheating on her while she was pregnant that she felt suicidal. Yet people who despise TMH accuse her of mental instability?
TMH was busted on a DUI. ONCE.
DY, it has been hinted, was using a drug for an illness in a manner that was not approved by the FDA, or using a totally non-approved ‘script? Something like that. I know she was ill. Fine, and perhaps her illness had something to do with poor nutritional or medicinal choices? Or she simply had a kidney infection like pylonepritis that went south fast and needed major intervention? All things are possible in a kidney case. However, she became so ill that she needed her sons to live with their fathers.
No one at all seems to want to ask the big question here: Why was DY not participating in far, far more parenting time for both Q and K…AFTER she recovered? What’s up with that? Joint parenting is a major trend in Family Courts across the country. Why is there no indication or examination that DY and KH ever actually did the Family Court route with custody? WHY DID DY SEEM TO CAVE TO KH’S STATEMENTS ABOUT NO ADDITIONAL VISITATION OR CUSTODIAL TIME? How does an ex-husband get to say “not an option” to custody changes, without a court order? IS THERE A COURT ORDER on that? IF so, why is it NEVER brought up?
You see, in my state, if one parent seems to have restricted visitation time, there’s something major-wrong with said parent.
Next, from the get go, TY acted as a cop, because he is a cop, and thought and spoke like a cop, but no one questions his lack of objectivity in this case? I think it is entirely possible that DY, who strikes me as a bit of a follower and not a leader and emotionally prone to believe what people tell her 100% of the time, is at home in private time with a cop husband who still tells her “TH did it.” Not an unbelievable scenario as far as I’m concerned.
Someone on SM recently noted that while people supported Natalee Holloway’s mother for her in-his-face confrontation of Joran van der Sloot concerning her daughter’s probable death, that they are now criticizing DY for confronting TH. I cannot stand this type of blatant corrupting of a case’s very, very visible differences compared to another case. TH is not serving time for murder in a South American prison, and was not filmed– FILMED — leaving a hotel room alone after his last victim was left in the room DEAD. TH did not sit in a car with someone and “confess” as Joran did about killing Natalee (and I’ll never figure out how Joran squirmed out of that episode with no arrest). TH has not done a damned thing illegal or wrong in any way since leaving the Horman house in 2010. She has lived nearly invisibly in Roseburg and followed her attorney’s instructions. Her behavior screams to me “innocent.” She had no motive to kill a 7 year old child or that child’s husband, IMO, because her track record indicated she was more than capable of simply bailing on a marriage and moving on after a divorce.
DY and KH no longer receive good parenting citations from me. I think they’re both liars, and their positions allowed them the ability to create a TMH scapegoat story.
Plus, I know I’ve mentioned in the past that I understand engineers and tech types and their frequently blah, flat personalities, but having never, EVER seen a single tear shed by KH for Kyron’s situation, I have become convinced he’s hiding something.
TMH’s haters often write on the FB that she hasn’t shed a tear for Kyron.
Neither has KH. Not where they have seen him or I have seen him. Again…why the obvious attack on one person for something the other one isn’t doing either?
I remind everyone — LE has never, ever confirmed with a LE spokesperson speaking the words, that TH is a suspect or that TH did something to Kyron. All the horrific things we have ever heard about TH have come from…..
DY and KH and TY, and a very lame set of fake journalists who apparently did not graduate a journalism program that taught them how to investigate a story. The media in the Portland area, concerning Kyron Horman, seems comprised of meek order takers who write down what other people tell them is true.
Kyron deserves far, far better than what anyone in this case, especially his own family, has offered up. I absolutely give up on LE involved in this investigation. This is not about being right. If it was announced in the next five minutes that explosive evidence is being released that proves beyond ALL doubt that TH killed or had someone kill Kyron, I’d breath a sign of relief that his journey has ended in closure and with G-d. However, I do not think that will happen. I just cannot be convinced by rumor and gossip that “the stepmother did it.”
I need some facts, folks.
As I observe Chanukah, I am reminded — the story of the Jews and the Greeks actually started as a civil war between two very opposite Jewish tribes, one that wished to cooperate with the Greeks and the other that wanted to lay waste to all occupiers. Go figure. People fight amongst themselves more than they fight an actual “enemy.”
I drove by Kyron’s wall yesterday — the fences all covered with notes. It is absolutely the saddest thing I’ve ever seen — all bedraggled and woebegone, dirty and wilted, hardly swaying in the breeze.
Poor little Kyron, what have they done with you?
Did I post this? How Staton got crowned by Skipper:
1) lived in the County (apparently rare in Captns & Chief Deputies)
2) was already police certified, unlike Skipper, & Skipper said only a “short list”
of Captns & Chief Deps were police certified.
“http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/11/sheriffs_story_one_of_survival.html
“…Skipper … found few in his command staff of captains and chief deputies live in the county — a must for the office. …Skipper wanted someone already police certified. Staton rose to the top of a rather short list.”
@RedRose. Be of good cheer. See BKH website & FB.
They’re gonna erect a tree with paper note ornaments & clean it up.
(Probably timed to get a L Terry story the day before Dec Court Hearing, imo.)
@NelMel. You always motivate me to go read, this tome on the history of Chanukah.
One thought re “understand engineers and tech types and their frequently blah, flat personalities…”
Not so sure KH is. Remember the pic with Glen’s arm around his shoulder. And there are other pics with
similar affect. And all those (reputed, alleged by DY) women get hooked by something.
Gosh Blink, who knows. It certainly aligns with James’ departure. It had to be some kind of medical emergency; sickness, injury or mental break for an ambulance to be called. Injury could be accidental or on purpose, as in DV. Possibility of drug OD. The potential patient could be either parent or 3 kids living in the Horman household, but not limited to them especially since it was around the holidays.
erose says:
November 28, 2013 at 3:00 am
snip>
Wanted to remind all on this point- although we know there was a 911 call made in December by TMH- we don’t know the content except we know that ems was dispatched, right? We DO KNOW that KH’s affidavit for the RO states he did not know when or by what means TMH tried to off him and that he was never injured or hospitalized by it.
Point is, that would mean that call has nothing to do with the mfh allegation.
So what happened?
B
Yup. I don’t have time to source it at the moment so from memory I do recall a FB post of TMH that announced her parents would be coming to stay over the Christmas Holiday that indicated it was a surprise or a last minute thing -perhaps in response to whatever prompted the call has always been my theory.
B
@NelMel, As always, your candor is appreciated. I agree, the hypocrisy is apparent to those who choose to see. Great analogy with the Greeks and the Jews. Happy Chanukah, and Thanksgiving to all.
WRT 911 call, since TH placed it, she was either in danger, or not the patient.
NelMel says:
November 28, 2013 at 2:09 pm
I could kiss you!
I spent an hour yesterday writing a post that said just about everything yours does.
I don’t “know” more than anyone if TMH had anything to do with Kyron’s terrible abduction.
What I do honestly believe is that LE has not “shared” any incriminating info about TMH with the Youngs. The Youngs, on the other hand, IMOO, are the basis for that initial focus. Shame on the MCSO for being so easily led and double shame on the MMS taking that nasty gossip fed tripe and spinning it into an informal inditement against Kyron’s major care giver for most of his life.
Absolutely, the Moulton’s should seek a restraining order against DY and her minions. Absolutely, LE has a responsibility to everyone to come clean about the fact that Kyron was taken from the school by an unknown person. They have let this mishandled mess do too much damage already, with no results in finding this poor child.
What’s wrong with the people in that community anyway?
@NelMel. wrt “However, she became so ill that she needed her sons to live with their fathers.” I have begun to question this storyline. Imo a physical illness and the pursuit of medical treatment, even travel to it, standing alone, is
imo insufficient to lose custody of 2 kids to separate husbands. She had 2 sisters to rally & help to prevent that, as well.Imo there was a greater, significant, reason to lose custody, which will only come out in a Court setting, if then.
Rose, she did not lose custody, she relinquished joint physical custody and her status of parent of primary residence- leaving her under OR law with joint legal custody only. With Ky there was an agreement that she would have visitation once per month ending on a Sunday evening around dinner time. That stipulation was the last standing order in the file and as we know at the time of Kyron’s disappearance the co-parents were working that differently “by agreement.”
It required Kaine to deliver Ky to Seattle, WA. Imo, the stipulation was vague enough and specific enough for interpretation, but it does require notification for change of address requirements (standard) and there are none in the file.
Here is my take: The language requires appropriate protections for Kyron wrt to support- inasmuchas it states the agreement that due to DY health issues and desire to move out of the country (does not see seek treatment) includes no order for child support or daycare fees applicable to Kaine, using the term “not appropriate” but includes the amounts. On day 2 of that agreement, Kaine could have sought daycare costs and regular support- nothing in that agreement precluded him from that and we know he did not. According to other documents I have reviewed, this occurs 6 months before DY states she resides at her Dad’s as her primary address. In legal terms, if she did reside out of the US, she would have been required to provide that info to both courts and she did not, leading me to believe whatever treatment she sought, if she did, did not require disclosure as a change of address or previous address status. * technically* the court can file for support in Kyron’s best interests against the non-custodial parent under certain conditions as well. Seattle is about a 175 mi drive one way. This occurs in March 2004- Kyron was born in September 2002 so he was not yet 2 years old. Records show DY worked very little in 2004, that she lived in her condo as her primary residence through October 2004 and her payments on the mtg were current at the time without any spousal or child support so either sublet it or lived there and found a way to pay for it. She did appear to seek custody of Quinn a few years later, but was denied and she was required to pay her ex’s attorney fees so I would submit that had something to do with her lack of attempting same with Kyron.
I suspect strongly that DY attended a substance abuse/mental health recovery treatment facility which, imo, not just admitting that has created more harm than good in terms of how it would have been perceived in the first place. Frankly I would applaud her for taking steps for herself and realizing that she was not in a good position to parent at the time.
That said, she had plenty of time- 3 years in fact, to attempt to regain custody of Ky prior to him starting school- which everyone knows Judges will keep status quo about 80% of the time unless their is some “unfit” parent issue if a child is forced to change schools at that age.
B
Neglected to add….signed off before posting
@Nelmel
hear! hear! good post
The contrast between Terri and madonna Desiree reminds me of the old Tonya Harding (ugly, fat, lazy, not to be trusted) Nancy Kerrigan (graceful, hardworking, beautiful, deserving of all good things) that dominated the media and brought competitive ice skating to the attention of the general public.
I know you were being responsive to public sentiment, I edited a word.
Very respectfully- I see these 2 ladies on a glacial ice pad breaking off together and approaching spring before I see any of the Blades of Glory impetus.
B
So with the latest slip of news that Desiree says she’s being shown pictures of unidentified children, can we assume that LE no longer thinks Kyron is at the bottom of some body of water on or surrounding Sauvie Island?
Does anyone have any idea why Mr. Horman has suddenly asked for no cameras in the courtroom?
“I told Kaine that when you are married to the devil and you give her a reason to be pissed off, all of your sins are going to come back and here we are in this situation,” Young said.
http://www.wfsb.com/story/23465152/kyron-horman-case-returns-to-national-spotlight-with-dr-phil-show
Interesting statement by Desiree. Says to me:
Desiree does not blame Kaine for cheating on her. She blames Terri.
Desiree can see the devil in Terri for having an affair with Kaine, but she doesn’t see the devil in Kaine for having an affair with Terri, while she was 8 months pregnant with Kyron.
Desiree thinks this is all happened simply because Terri was pissed off at Kaine.
Whatever Kaine’s past sins are, have caused this situation.
So why isn’t she pointing fingers at Kaine? Why does she say on the same show that she doesn’t blame Kaine for anything?
What mixed-up, jumbled-up messages Desiree gives.
NelMel says:
November 28, 2013 at 2:09 pm
@NelMel – clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap . . .
Rose says:
November 29, 2013 at 8:30 am
In reply Blink says:
“I suspect strongly that DY attended a substance abuse/mental health recovery treatment facility which, imo, not just admitting that has created more harm than good in terms of how it would have been perceived in the first place. Frankly I would applaud her for taking steps for herself and realizing that she was not in a good position to parent at the time.”
I have thought that also, and wondered if she had gotten to the point of neglecting her kids’ needs (emotional or physical or both) and either came to her senses enough to get treatment or was convinced by someone else to do that to avoid criminal charges for neglect (or more). IMO, this would explain why both fathers seem to be in control of what happens with custody whether in court or not (more than that they just have “controlling” personalities). There is always a chance they were both right.
Staying in a treatment facility would also explain why she didn’t have to or want to change her address since it is temporary and the length of stay is often determined by personal progress – and why she didn’t really need to be living in Canada. Hinting that her use of an unapproved drug leading to kidney treatment in Canada would be unacceptable in the US, sort of puts up a barrier (for people respecting her grief) so that no one would look into that any further or expect to find any sort of documentation of what she did – after all, it wouldn’t really relate to finding Kyron, would it?
Perhaps the money she owed after whatever treatment she got included a loan to pay for her rent and household expenses while she was away. If she had any insurance at all, it may have helped with treatment (if) in the US, or she may have qualified for assistance from some program or agency.
I do, of course, agree with Blink that if she got herself into treatment for an undisclosed need, she should be commended for that effort to help both herself and her children. And frankly, after all she has done to harass (IMO) TH, IF TH knows the truth (and IF it is not about a kidney), TH should be commended for taking the high road.
Whatever happened, it seems Quinn would have been old enough to remember.
T. Ruth says:
November 29, 2013 at 12:28 pm
So with the latest slip of news that Desiree says she’s being shown pictures of unidentified children, can we assume that LE no longer thinks Kyron is at the bottom of some body of water on or surrounding Sauvie Island?
—————————–
@T.Ruth – let’s say for the sake of argument that the answer is no and LE believes Kyron is deceased. What LE purpose would it serve to show Desiree these pictures? Or what DY purpose would it serve to say they are showing her pictures if they aren’t?
Since there are no simple answers coming to us yet, there are also no simple questions, IMO.
I think Desiree’s message was clear she has no problem in holding both accountable for the affair/S she said:
“I told Kaine that when you are married to the devil and you give her a reason to be pissed off, all of your sins are going to come back and here we are in this situation,” Young said.
http://www.wfsb.com/story/23465152/kyron-horman-case-returns-to-national-spotlight-with-dr-phil-show
“when you give her reason to be pissed off”
“ALL of YOUR SINS are going to come back” emphasis by me
In other words Desiree is telling Kaine your poor or hurtful decisions effected Terri, and you should have known there would be hell to pay wth her repercussions especially so since you are married to the devil(according to Desiree Terri is the devil) and those repercussions would be evil (since according to Desiree terri is the devil that Kaine WILLINGLY married)
I think Desiree is being clear she believes the breakdown of the marriage to include hurtful poor decisions contributed to what happened with Kyron
BTW Desiree never said she didnt blame Kaine for “anything” on the Phil show IIRC she said PP I do not blame you for what happened to Kyron but I blame both you for not seeing the signs… I blame you later includes “us” for NOT protecting Kyron better (assumption on my part from Terri the POd devil)
Desirees clear in her thoughts but that matters not to whther or not what she believes is the truth of the matter-or nothing more than a distraught mothers angry feelings not based in fact
AJMO
Peace
@NelMel
November 28, 2013 at 2:09 pm
Well said.
“Kyron deserves far, far better than what anyone in this case, especially his own family, has offered up. I absolutely give up on LE involved in this investigation. This is not about being right.”
On the heels of finishing watching The Killing Season 3 on Netflix, I keep wondering: what will it take to bust open this cast so wide there will be no simple “IMO” needed—??
His recovery.
B
@Blink. TY for correction & elaboration. How wonderful Kyron had his mother as primary after-work parent his first 1.5 years. Since she retained joint custody prior to Kindergarden, it seems to me it would have been a slam dunk she reclaim primary residdntial custody prior to school, BUT FOR Terri in the household who (other than the DUI DY didn’t know about) would have presented well wrt maintaining with Kaine for continuity of care, her education, the marriage etc. So, without rechecking dates, my bet is they married before K entered Kindergarden. Imo Terri was essential to Kaine retaining physical custody. Yes, I assumed DY was in a perhaps 6-month program, but many are, not held against them, & to be applauded. So, the “mystery” surrounding it all is offputting to me.
NelMel, I understand your disgust at the continued comparisons of desiree and terri-
if we all assume neither terri nor desiree had anything to do with Kyrons disappearance they are both victims
Neither one is an angel or a madonna neither one can be expected to not be adversely affected by this horrible situation
Both I would think would need to see therapists both would need healthy support systems
Both would be sitting ducks for leaches and both would easily be led astray by a seemingly friendly helpful hand -whether it be one those “minions” as you call them- or by an attentive male “friend” who may be anything but…
Its easy to pick apart someones seeming faults when they have a spot light shining on them – who could stand up to that glare? Not your average every day Mom or Dad or family thats for sure.
IIRC
Dy and Kaine had a workable custody agreement not necessarily sanctioned thru the court lots of divorced couples do this- they make it work for them- I dont think any one was restricted from visitation.
were they?
Kaine was doing what was best for Ky so was Terri and so was Desiree if this never happened ( the disappearance)then nothing would have been an issue most of these “problems” and “what if” finger pointing etc only came to light after with hindsight and a belief that terri was the BG or knew the BG-
If that wasnt believed- then all would still think the agreement, the parenting by all was sufficient and the best for Kyron and all
All of these adults have lied who here can claim never to have lied? all of these adults have made mistakes who here hasnt even in while parenting-
Honestly I think if Ky was here he would say they all were good parents just as James did- and Desiree from all accounts seemed to be – she was enough of a good mom to realize when she wasnt in the best interests of her children and relinquished custody right?
again the comparisons only perpetuate that “contest” I agree
I think all of these parents have lost any objectivity- its human and understandable – IMO
You wrote that kaine has not shed a tear- remember,James said he did break down and cry and it was the first time James ever saw him cry ?
Again agree a contest is not fair
Thanks for reminding us that LE never called Terri a suspect we do need to keep that in mind at all times
Remember what LE did say? pp not to write hurtful things… I think FB should have that disclaimer and so should a sw chalk box dont you?
I agree there needs to be facts- there are, we just dont know them or where they lead -the GJs work says as much-
and its easy to forget facts and rely on opinions and remembrances based on little real info
This case is plagued with it as Im sure you know- Its sad the same thing happened in the WM3 case…
when that happens it can easily lead to
“People fighting amongst themselves more than they fight an actual “enemy.” ”
Great thought NelMel- thank you for sharing it makes it harder even still when the true enemy is unknown…
Everyones looking for the BG sometimes its just easier to swing that spotlight like a game of spin the bottle- and pick who will be the enemy next
Sad
Happy holidays to you and yours-
AJMO
Peace