Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police

A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued  ©

S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime

DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman

 

In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher,  she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court.  Unofficially cleared, that is.

Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley,  who have since refused all local media requests,  would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.

Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide.  While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously,  her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.

As was proven not only by her recent polygraph,  but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place,  Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.

The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher  as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.  Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.

Stoy: So, in your estimation then,  why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.

Spicher:  I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons.  I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with.  He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc.  I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name.   As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order,  she was also told that

Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that?  I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.

Spicher: No.  I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th.    I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.

Stoy: ok, sorry, continue.  So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?

Spicher:  They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding.  It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June,  and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March.  So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?

To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.

Stoy: Which was?

Spicher: At first,  I think that they really believed I was involved,  and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was,  and my vehicle never left, nor did I.  They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.

Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case,  they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?

Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect.  I never felt that way,  but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever,  but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.

Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?

Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did.  To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning.    I would ask like who do you mean,  because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this.  I was scared and it turned out it was good reason.   I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.

Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice?  Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that.  People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies.  I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative.  In fact,  Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly.  So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.

Spicher: (laughs) Interesting.  I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.

Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?

Spicher: No,  do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?

Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?

Spicher:  I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house.  Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.

Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?

Spicher: That’s it,  yes, him.  Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?

Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through,  and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you.  If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information,  I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?

Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.

Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back ,  considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work?  What did your attorney say when you told him?

Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney,  but to answer your question as to my opinion,  I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction.  After more thought,  and other conversations,  I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible.   What is your opinion on it?

Stoy:  I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece.  Again, not wanting to temper your opinions  as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did.  Is that ok with you?

Spicher: Sure, thank you.

Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion.  I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman.  Is that correct?

Spicher: Correct, ok.

Stoy: Did they ask you this?

Spicher: Who is they?  You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).

Stoy: Fair point, you’re right.  The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor.  Allow me to rephrase please.  Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?

Spicher:  Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?

Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?

Spicher: (laughs) touche’ .  I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids.  I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.

Stoy: Why shock you?

Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing”  and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well,  impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.

Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct?  That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc.  And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?

Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury.  But yes, that is what she told me.  I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her.  To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement .  I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case,  but yes,  they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are.  But that is my assumption.

Stoy:  Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s  service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home?  Spicher:  I am not sure about the exclusive use part,  I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.

Stoy: Ok.  Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory.  By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.

Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.

Stoy:  How would you know that?

Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request.   She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids.  I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.

Stoy: ok,  understood,  we will get back to that.  I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.”  Do you recall what year, even ballpark.

Spicher:  I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005,  and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.

Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine,  I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help.  Do you remember where you were during the conversation.

Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell,  Terri had a lot of drama,  and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know,  we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.

Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?

Spicher:  Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention.  It was either during that call or at the lunch.  Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.

Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?

Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.

Stoy: Got it.  What did she say

Spicher:  She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”.  She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her.  She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller.  The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him.  I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.

Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from?  Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?

SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.

Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person?  Sort of like…  she gets approval to remain anonymous,  she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?

Spicher: Yes, something like that.  Except and again,  we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out.  The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact.  From what I recall,  I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.

Stoy: Understood,  so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day,  but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.

Spicher: Yes,  I think so.

Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice.  I don’t think so because she did not ask for any.  So then what?  Did Kaine find out?

Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy,  and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day.   If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember,  that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.

Stoy: Ok.  Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?

Spicher:    Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed,  it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing.   She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office.   We did.

Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what?  Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher:  I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served,  in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le,  but it would surprise me.  Terri was always very family centric.  She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing,  this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.

Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: No, not at all.

Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?

Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper.   He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.

Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting”  and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”

Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.

Stoy: She specifically said the FBI,  who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.

Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s  contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?

Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?

 

Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?

It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years.  The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier.  As a strong argument for the trickle down effect,  Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle,  was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report.   A former Sheriff,   Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications.  The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place.  Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.

In fact,  Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.

MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.

The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell.   O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.

There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.

In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week,  it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.

It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan,  the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.

Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.

After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids  a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption  tipping other’s off  in the alleged ring ,  Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso,  Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested.  The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike.   The specifics of which were sealed by the court.  It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.

Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids?  How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?

“… Jackson,   through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”

“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest.  He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”

 On June 3rd, 2010,  approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance,  Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.

From the Indictment:

Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury,  in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden.  Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products.  Worden has never been charged.

 Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and

841(b)( 1)(E).

 

The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known  to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).

 

The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin,  a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.

 

According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.

 

 

From Buff To Puff

 

In contrast to Jackson,  although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement,  William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon”  cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.

In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote,  “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”

 

Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way.  Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client,  was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.

 

John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case,  sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well.  Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question.  Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason.  The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.

“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”

Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.

Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.

 

On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.

Andrew Millbrooke  filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby,  Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith  for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot.   In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy.  The suit is pending.  A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion.  Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].

 

With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against  Traverso were dismissed  this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.

Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation.  Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.

As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .

Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold  illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.

However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids,  but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.

“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.

“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.

He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.

At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”

S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.

The source,  an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…”   “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…”  The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.

Reached for comment,  Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.

A request for comment to Mr. Bunch,  Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.

 

More Questions Than Answers..

Following several hours of interviews with  DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?

Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.

She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”

She was not.

Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself.  Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.

Through Spicher,  Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness”  which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc,  Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th.  His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.

Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought.  Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.

 

Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada  Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous.  Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom,  to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.

To her knowledge,  there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.

In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.

 

Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:

“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”

 

Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators.  One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer,  at their own expense  The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had  agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.

“…  This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.

 

The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”

 

I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange.  She had.  I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.

Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion.  Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.

I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home.  She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.

Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?

Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.

Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper?  I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen,  and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.

Spicher:  No, it wasn’t.  Kaine bought it.  It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property.   I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home.  I  mean, like cleaning the gutters,  cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing.  To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.

Stoy: With a baby,  7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that?  No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help.  I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.

Spicher:  No,  Terri  had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children.  I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money.  I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage.  One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that.  I believe the other was the landscaper.

Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.

Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that?  But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.

Stoy:  Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?

Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].

Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement.  Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you.  Are you angry about that?

Spicher:  O my no.  That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine.  I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can..   I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them.   I really pray that Kyron will be found,  I choose to put my energy into hope for that.

Pending Matters

Through Attorney Bunch,  Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.

In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday,  Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.

Early this afternoon,  a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.

A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013

 

 

Jacqueline Beaufort,  Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.

Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.

 

 

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4,398 Comments

  1. Rose says:

    aren’t reporters supposed to interview & fact check such that the story is thorough & nailed before publishing?
    and in version 5, still no interview of RSE or comment wrt attempt. Ditto wrt to Kaine. Where has the journalists’ bff
    gone?

    Not if your following the Murder Biz plan
    B

  2. Rose says:

    Hi,vw. wrt yr comment on OLive
    “How’d that work for Ky and Quinn? The courts, then would have been behind Desiree if she fought for regaining primary custody after returning from Canada, it seems.”
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/landscaper_says_terri_horman_w.html#comments
    (I have never commented or signed in there & would rather do tome out in the Skyline toilet with SZ first.)
    It seems clear to me TH knew DY could have fone that, but she had failed apparently previously wrt Quinn, and that was on the record. Imo DY failed originally to spend to hire competent Counsel & join the Fathers. Imo Terri herself was Kaine’s only Ace in the hole to prevent DY’s custody more recently. Anyway, TH sized up DY’s intent & ability to acquire custody of Kyr pretty well. so we can’t ignore TH has motive wrt Kyr. But I think it’s ridiculous as James is a half sib as well. Teri shoukd’ve packed up Kiara & gone home to mother like in the old days.

    Even with a typo it was a mouth cover-ing laugh.
    B

  3. Rose says:

    Since James was off at school or Powell’s,
    imo in his storyline with mcso,
    RSE was originally unaware of James.

  4. Rose says:

    yeah, I saw those TWO or more typos & Felt Badly

  5. A Texas Grandfather says:

    It is beginning to appear that some judge shopping has been going on that may have “backfired”. The current judge IMO is being a little more careful than the lawyers planned.

    I agree with B in regards to the criminal lawyer being there to “backfill” the holes in the family lawyers experience. Too much specialization in the family courts makes one handicapped in a case as broad as this one. This goes for judges as well.

    I think the court should make anything that LE provided to KH’s attorneys available to Terri’s attorneys. Kaine may have secured the favored position of LE at the beginning for reasons that may be about to be revealed. However, this may all change when all parties including the court have the same information. Truth is truth and will not be denied over time.

  6. Rose says:

    Seems Bernstein has linked doc.
    http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/Emergency%20Hearing%20Motion.pdf
    No new news, as Engel filed 12/3 & Bunch 12/5. Just since filings weren’t in
    public file Friday by COB , a sandbox litigator decided to put it out there. Some Exclusive.
    And indeed the depo occurred 11/11, so HofB was waiting til Engel hung himself with that paraphrase.
    An Emergency Hearing wrt to Discovery Issues is warranted, and will kick Temp Custody Hearing a couple
    months forward. (Someone in Spokane, can you get senior Horman’s divorce files?) By now I’m looking for inheritable mental illnesses being alleged against a parent imo.

  7. Rose says:

    TY grasshopper wrt your Friday verification docs were not public yet.
    So J Kantor was sitting on Motions filed 12/3 & 12/5
    asking for an Emergency Hrg, and thought he’d have the
    weekend to ponder. And a source of Canzano’s wanted to
    move him along.

  8. Rose says:

    I wonder what “documents” of RSE LE has?
    Green card? SSN in a false name or no.? Birth Cert?
    Tax Returns with banking & business records which fit or not?
    Seems to me some of these docs likely go to something
    arguably illegal being held over his head. Thus the crim
    attorney need.
    Blink can you divulge what his preexisting issues are?
    And whatever happened to Anselmo aka Freddy?

    Not outside of anything I have publicly commented on-
    B

  9. Rose says:

    Some may have missed this worth post I just found, reading back:
    GeorgiaDad says: December 9, 2013 at 3:15 pm

  10. NelMel says:

    Amys Sister says:
    December 8, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    Rose says:…the 3 adults in Kyron’s life, the least dysfunctional of whom, by now, appears to be Terri.
    ____

    That made me laugh.

    Come on, and I say this with respect, Terri is hiring landscapers behind her husbands back so he thinks she’s doing yard work she’s not doing then she complains to everyone how she’s being forced to do yard work.

    That takes a very special person as does much of her behavior.

    I agree the bios are acting out but they do have a missing child and carry a heavy load of guilt over it.

    LOL, Rose. I actually love how you’re able to outline fifteen facts with three opinions in twenty words or less.
    ====================================================

    I see it the opposite. KH, like a lot of husbands who are sort of clueless about the fact that a baby cannot be hauled around while one cleans all the gutters, mows a huge lawn, etc., has a fixation on lists, I think. According to DDS, he left TMH with chores to complete during his absence. That is not functional behavior for husbands. That is dysfunctional behavior. Wives are not employees.

    We have seen interior photos of the Horman home. Hoarders or meth lab operators did not set up shop there, apparently. No signs exist in any of those pictures that some drunken slob of a wife was staggering around, not doing anything all day.

    I think the hiring of a landscaper, whether KH knew about it or not, was not dysfunctional at all. And apparently a landscaper wasn’t hired for too many trips to that property, so, yes, I can then hear TMH griping to people about all the yard works she has to do.

    Wish I’d been standing in the Horman kitchen when KH handed out his “to do” lists. TMH might have been passive aggressive in her response to his ridiculous expectations of what can be accomplished by one mother with two small children. I would have left bruises on his testicles and called his parents to come and get him out of my face, lol.

    It sounds like the two of them were in this psych war over everything — behavior, appearances, etc. And remember DY’s letter that she read out loud to TMH? She indicated that she got it about KH, and that she was the one person who ‘got it’ about what TMH was experiencing with Prince Intel.

  11. vw says:

    Alright Blink, after your walmart remark you have lost the privilege of laughing at R’s toilet snark. You two need to go stand in a corner for the rest of the day. I vote for T-ruth to be your sub for the day, B.

    BTW, speaking of ROFL….even his own attorney had to tell Kaine he should have SOME opinion on what parenting is…..and “Don’t Guess” he admonished him. What’s that tell you about their confidence in their witnesses. One can’t speak English and doesn’t know what “circumstances” means ….. wonder if he even knew the idiom “get rid of”? The other …. well, Houze has a LOT of patience.

    LOL
    Houze is a laser scalpel.
    B

  12. vw says:

    So…if Rudy was given immunity why was he able to not answer the question of the 2nd meeting with Terri?

    And why would he even need a lawyer if he has immunity? Because the GJ testimony only protected him from prosecution related to Kyron’s disappearance?

    What’s he really afraid of?

    I think houseofB. know that is the key. To find out exactly what Rudy’s motives, if not LE’s, were in creating this fiction of a murder for hire.

    Which it never was. No steps were taken, ever, that I know of. Just talk doesn’t do it if even that happened.

    But what the DA’s office wants is a LINK between this restaurant meeting and TMH disappearing Kyron to make sure the courts would go against her in a future divorce hearing.

    Blows my mind. But steroids can turn a person so ugly that even strong women get scared.

    Pretty sure that didn’t happen. And tend to believe Houze when he says depoing rudy and bobby about that meeting could hold the key.

    Meeting 2 is protected investigative work product.

    There is no doubt that the Distended Duo is the key.

    The key to what- I know one thing, it is not the key to the little man who remains missing and it is outrageous.

    B

  13. T. Ruth says:

    Rose says:
    December 9, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    I gotta find some general credible source for OR news.
    Any of you have local small town newspapers to suggest?

    Walmart Flyer
    B

    ***********
    LMAO, no need to be sorry.

  14. Rose says:

    WW’s complete silence stands out among the crowd. Maybe the sklence is not because of professional journalism. Maybe their complete silence fell upon the paper because the wife of owner became AG & a conflict of interest emerged. Maybe the paper unearthed plenty but could’nt publish due to conflict of interest of spouse. If so, when will State AG hop in?

  15. grasshopper says:

    Rose says,
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/landscaper_says_terri_horman_w.html#comments
    (I have never commented or signed in there & would rather do tome out in the Skyline toilet with SZ first.)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    love it! and agree. it’s bloodsport on Olive.

    Late.. Punchy on case(s) overload and Harper likes snow as opposed to hurrying her business- of course. Pup needs to go to bed with Mr. Blink on midnight oil burnings- note to self.

    But… I have been envisioning Rose at Katniss for days, lol!
    B

  16. Rose says:

    I have a Q. Why has Engel become the litigating attorney?
    Imo he’s not as competent as Rackner

    Because she can be called as a witness- conflict.
    B

  17. grasshopper says:

    courthouse will be closed again tomorrow, tuesday
    https://twitter.com/cominer

  18. Rose says:

    http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/190552178#
    I cannot read further, & have the vapors, after 21-24 on p 3, where Engel states KH could not remember due to passage of time what LE told him vs what he observed
    —-

    FTLOG Kaine poses as the bottom grill plate of a Foreman Grill.
    B

  19. vw says:

    A Texas Grandfather says:
    December 9, 2013 at 6:45 pm
    It is beginning to appear that some judge shopping has been going on that may have “backfired”. The current judge IMO is being a little more careful than the lawyers planned.
    ———————-

    Agreed. It’s been a learning curve for him, IMO. But he has seen Engel’s/Rees call Wolf many times now.
    While Houze/Bunch have been talking so softly against the flames that their spark hasn’t been taken very seriously until lately.

    I can see Kantor giving to go ahead to depo Rudy again. But NOT Bobbie. He did NOT rule that witnesses could get away with silence on questions related to their own actions, only the information LE suggested about their actions. IMO

  20. erose says:

    After reading the documents that grasshopper linked @

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/190547211/Horman-v-Horman-Divorce

    I can now see how killing Kyron could have benefited TH in the divorce. I was not aware of the Oregon law presumption that step-siblings should not be separated after divorce.

    So the theory becomes, she wanted a divorce, she was unable to find someone to kill KH, so in order to secure her custody of Baby K, she had Kyron abducted, so the step sibling presumption was null and void.

    Conversely..?
    B

  21. erose says:

    After reading the request for the emergency hearing, it all comes down to that last meeting between TH and RSE which I assume was in May, where she called the cops, and now he is advised by his lawyers not to answer any questions wrt that 15 minute meeting. What can’t RSE disclose about that meeting? It’s obviously not something that makes TH look bad.

    grasshopper says:
    December 9, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    link now up on max’s article
    BunchofHouzes response

    http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/Emergency%20Hearing%20Motion.pdf

    I believe the meeting in reference is the sting, erose.
    B

  22. Rose says:

    OLive again updated about 6:55 (& who knows how much in between).
    seeing a small slice of KH’s depo there, it is amazing how much he has constipation wrt answering the simplest Qs, as though his attorney didn’t prep him the easiest thing to do is give minimal specific truthful answers. Apparently Engelinterjected “not bringing up mother” to Kiara was at LE’s direction & advice, & Kaine confirmed that. Now why can’t Houze question LE wrt to that directive on parenting Kiara, which is clearly not part of the investigation, when Engel brought it up, despite many Houze asmo
    admonishments not to do so?
    I also see despite Notice of Representation, Engel didn’t include Jacob on the cc list. Engel seems weak at following directions wrt depo’s contents.

  23. GraceintheHills says:

    GeorgiaDad says:
    December 9, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    GD says, “If the landscapers account were true, it suggests a well-thought-out plan by TMH. She suggests (but does not order) a hit, when the killer finds out there is no $10,000 and confronts her, she tells him she will tell the police he killed Kaine and the landscaper quickly flees to Mexico. Of course the potential downside is that people who kill for $10,000 are not particularly trustworthy and could represent a real risk to TMH. I doubt Kaine actually carried around $10,000. Who would do that? I doubt people randomly walked up to him at the gym or at Intel offering to make expensive drug deal.

    That being said, the sequence of events sounds like something out of a godfather movie, with TMH sitting in a booth in an Italian restaurant ordering a hit.

    From an evidence standpoint this was not a Murder FOR HIRE situation. TMH is not alleged to have paid, or offer to pay, anything of value. It is not clear if the landscapers testimony actually implicates TMH of a crime. What we apparently have is the landscapers interpretation of TMH’s verbal and non-verbal clues, which would be quite suspect from a person whose native language is not English.

    The alleged motive for this action was TMH apparently being afraid of losing Baby K. How then would disappearing Kyron serve that purpose?

    I do not have a handle on TMH’s relationship with RSE. What would make her think that he would be willing to commit a murder and could be trusted? Why would she seek him out for a crime?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    GeorgiaDad, appreciate your thoughts. Let me share another perspective. To answer your last question, individuals who solicit others to murder their spouses are usually not thinking logically nor are they using their common sense.

    Reading between the lines, which is what I do, it would appear that TH and RS were a tad closer than she implies. It could be he was smitten with her and she knew it, and she sensed a weakness in him that she could exploit. If this is how the conversation went, it imo, could have risen to the level of solicitation to commit murder under Oregon statutes. If she said, “My husband carries $10,000″ OR “will be carrying $10,000 on him that day” (on his way to pay cash for John Deere), and you murder him, you can keep the cash.”

    Maybe because of my training, or because I’ve worked too long with the criminal element, the alleged MFH/solicitation always rang true for me. Up in my neck of the woods, we have seen quite a few individuals who thought it was a grand idea to have someone kill their spouses. One of these losers even asked an electrician who had come to repair a switch at his home, and he had never even met the guy before! The electrician turned him down but didn’t notify LE, so the DH kept searching until he found someone who would and did kill his wife.

    The way it reads, two motives stand out – she claimed KH was verbally and physically abusing her, AND she thought KH would take BabyK away from her. Why would she think that? If KH was really physically abusing TH, why in the world would TH not take BabyK and get the h*ll out of Dodge? Why would she let her infant live in that type of abusive environment? Maybe her claims weren’t true? IDK.

    Usually, it is easy to find motive if you follow the money trail as the surviving spouse is more often than not the beneficiary of the marital assets and any insurance payout, and, of course, any minor children. If RSE is telling the truth, why TH might have wanted KH dead (if she did). What was going on in that house or in her mind that led her to believe she had to take such drastic measures? Was she still suffering from symptoms of postpartum depression? If she divorced, she would have go back to work, and presumably she would want to teach. Her prior conviction for child endangerment could pose a formidable barrier to being hired in many school districts. But, she would never again have the alleged threat of KH taking BabyK away from her. In addition, she would be rid of Kyron, as he would undoubtedly go to live with his mom and Tony.

    The above is simply just another perspective, and is MOO. It is certainly possible that TH did not participate in any criminal activity. Imo, it is also possible that she did. We can only hope that one day the truth comes out.

    Kyron needs to be found.

    Grace- I don’t agree that this rises to statute and I think a dismissed gj, lack of indictment or charges and the wanton need for Rackner/Engel to prohibit (yes I know I am using that word) a balanced deposition for RSE bears that out-

    However, I think your post is very constructive professionally for a variety of reasons. Particularly, your consideration about being exposed to criminal element for so long. In spite of that fwiw, I find you intentionally objective- that is a discipline I know takes great ethic.
    B

  24. Rose says:

    @Blink. Did you see, in the slice of Kaine’s depo on OLive, Engel specifically stated the alienation of baby K (do not mention mother to her) was part of LE’s advice? Shifting the severing the relationship blame deliberately imo. After many admonitions by Houze not to refer to anything from LE.

    I absolutely did. We knew- why didnt he?
    B

  25. Rose says:

    In the depo, Kaine finally answered what makes for good parenting is communication with a child. Ironic, as he felt “silence” re mother good LE advice. It sounds like his defense with Vinh will be LE told me to treat mother as dead. I don’t see how Kantor can escape depo of LE on this one specific issue: Was Kaine told not to discuss Terri or Mother with Kiara at all? You know if a 2 yo’s Mother & 2 brothers disappear entirely with no explanation, that’s a biggie in explaining the 2 yo not mentioning any of the 3 to the remaining family member. The fears she must have had about would she disappear, or he disappear, too. Why would Kaine take advice from KE rather than a qualified child therapist experienced with early childhood losses & grief?
    —–
    What with being a frequent volunteer at the school, TH probably griped about KH & her plan to divorce him there too, perhaps in SZ’s hearing.
    ——
    I’d like to know how LE & Kaine fit the upcoming Dr’s appointment to fully evaluate Kyron into their theory of abduction? Seems to me TH was taking him in to evaluate something that would give DY some grounds for custody. Idea probably prompted by Kristian’s molesting charges. I feel the appointment was intended to undermine KH’s parenting, so why abduct him before it?
    —-
    Tonite I got educated by the crossword on ModestMouse. So I guess
    I’ll be wondering if Kaine were cast in a rock musical, what role?

  26. Rose says:

    @erose. The hole in thatrepresentation by Engel to motive is James was as related to Kiara as Kyron & was reared with her. And Terri could point to Kaine’s attempts to alienate James & sever Kiara’s relationship
    with him (the move), which James could attest to.

  27. Amys Sister says:

    From the latest article: “Kaine Horman contends in court papers that Kiara has “never even asked about her Mother,” since the parents separated.”

    That’s his story and he’s sticking to it.

    I do wonder how much Kitty could vocalize at the time? That might explain her inability to ask where her mama went.

    Oy and yes maam
    B

  28. vw says:

    http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/190552178#
    I cannot read further, & have the vapors, after 21-24 on p 3, where Engel states KH could not remember due to passage of time what LE told him vs what he observed
    —-
    LOL. I “took to my bed” after an endorphin release from laughing after reading that it was Engels, even, who had to remind Kaine, to “Don’t guess” about what a good parent is…

    It doesn’t get much better than this.

  29. vw says:

    @Amy’s sister,

    You’re right. Children that age are not capable of using metaphors. But hard to imagine, even in a home devoid of tokens of a cherished parent, that Kiara didn’t say “momma” when Kaine couldn’t produce her binkie or favorite blanket.

  30. cd says:

    I don’t understand why TH would have to fear Kaine getting custody of Kiara because if Kaine got custody then Kiara would have been separated rom her sibling James who was also a stepchild in kaines and TH’s marriage. Probably the best Kaine could have done would have been joint custody and I am sure that TH knew that.

    If that was the only motive LE could come up with as to why TH would disappear Kyron then they were scraping the bottom of the barrel as far a motives go. I think Engel is full of BS if he is trying to promote that motive.
    ——————
    the presumption in Oregon that step-siblings should not be separated absent overriding reasons demonstrating that the welfare a child is better served by separation from a sibling.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/190547211/Horman-v-Horman-Divorce

  31. vw says:

    @Blink. Did you see, in the slice of Kaine’s depo on OLive, Engel specifically stated the alienation of baby K (do not mention mother to her) was part of LE’s advice? Shifting the severing the relationship blame deliberately imo. After many admonitions by Houze not to refer to anything from LE.

    I absolutely did. We knew- why didnt he?
    B

    Well, that wasnt’ the only one. But does let in a depo of who gave such Sage advice. Bobby…the expert on home relationships? Certainly hope he hasn’t procreated with his new wife. Can imagine his waving his gun at his daughter’s new boybfriend who drops her off past curfew.

  32. erose says:

    Blink, Thanks for clearing up the 15 minute meeting was the sting. I would never have consider the word “meeting” to describe that sitch. You think RSE had that lawyer pre-sting?

    I am just saying I finally understand the theory that the DA has. I could never make the logical leap with them how one goes from killing a husband to child abduction. Now I can see it with the step sibling consideration by the family courts. It is clear why DY wants to emphasize TH wanted Kyron to move in with her.

    So conversely, here is a man that knew her predicament and could use it to his advantage. I emphasize a man that TH pointed to, and LE had to seek out, not the other way around.

    And.. conversely with all this crap going on, it’s still quite possible some random person unrelated to this mess took Kyron, though I find myself leaning towards someone connected with RSE, again. I’m sucked in and it sucks.

    Rose, That must be why it is important for KH to emphasize that James was moved when KH was out of town. The seemingly insignificant particulars that TH and KH disagreed on are making more sense as to why.

  33. vw says:

    erose says:
    December 9, 2013 at 10:00 pm
    After reading the documents that grasshopper linked @

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/190547211/Horman-v-Horman-Divorce

    I can now see how killing Kyron could have benefited TH in the divorce. I was not aware of the Oregon law presumption that step-siblings should not be separated after divorce.

    Hi Erose,

    But what about the converse? That Kaine, doing the same, or one step ahead of tmh, would prevent Desiree from pursuing her attempts to get Kyron back. So that he and Quinn would be together soon. No alimony anymore. And Kaine’s cargo pockets were deep.

    Kaine did not pay alimony to Desiree.
    B

  34. erose says:

    Grace, I might be making your case here, but the truth as I know it is
    TH could have been living in an abusive environment, but taking her baby and leaving would only be temporary safety for the baby. The problem abused women have is protecting their children from the abuser.

    Somehow the courts do not see spousal abuse as a reason to deny custody or visitation of the children from the abusive parent. Logic says that if someone is physically abusive to their spouse (which admittedly in itself is hard to prove) they could be physically abusive to their children. Somehow the law will not make that leap, so I can understand an abused woman not just getting out of Dodge, because the kid might have to return to Dodge, alone.

    If TH had done her homework, however, she would not have been so ignorant the day of the sting when she learned that KH could take their daughter and leave the house and not return, so I am hard pressed to believe she thought out an abduction based on Oregon’s family laws.

    GraceintheHills says:
    December 10, 2013 at 1:09 am

    snip>
    The way it reads, two motives stand out – she claimed KH was verbally and physically abusing her, AND she thought KH would take BabyK away from her. Why would she think that? If KH was really physically abusing TH, why in the world would TH not take BabyK and get the h*ll out of Dodge? Why would she let her infant live in that type of abusive environment? Maybe her claims weren’t true? IDK.

  35. erose says:

    The irony of RSE’s claims are that KH finds himself denying he is an abuser that carries around 10K for drugs or lawn mowers or the vending machine at Intel.

    So, now we are asked to believe that not only did TH promote a hit on him, and eventually had his son abducted, but she did it based on fantasy.

  36. VLH says:

    I’ve seen comments lately referring to Kaine sending James away. Just curious if it has been decided (lack of a better word) that the article below is totally incorrect/false? Curious especially b/c there appear to be direct quotes from both of them.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html?mobRedir=false

    Thursday, August 19, 2010 ( snip )

    In February, Terri sent James to Roseburg to live with his maternal grandparents.

    “I was on a business trip when she made that decision,” Kaine said. “She called me on my first day (in California) and said they had gotten into a fight. She couldn’t handle it anymore. She was going to call his dad to talk about other options.”

    Kaine said he didn’t want James to move out, but it wasn’t his decision.

    James, who flashes an easy grin and trades quips with his stepmother, Angela Rockwood, said he took the move in stride.

    “It didn’t bother me,” he said. “Me and my mom moved around a lot, and I came down in summers anyway.”

    James said he misses his little sister — and would like to see Kaine as well.

    “He was like a dad to me,” James said. “I lived with him for eight years.”

    Kaine hopes to talk to James again soon.

  37. Rose says:

    On the expectation Houze asked no Q he didn’t know the answer to, & the Q to elicit KH’s supervisor’s name was for a reason, I looked him up. Is Kaine’s direct supervisor, who works in Menlo Park, the same as the one who owns Carry Nation in Los Gatos, British Bankers Club, & Mountain Town Brew Pub in Menlo Park? or the one Involved in the alleged Costa Rica scam? The latter supposedly resides at the Los Gatos address with wife of same name.

  38. VLH says:

    The question from my last tired-brain post **should** have asked: “Was it confirmed that Kaine sent James away? This article (including direct quotes from both) is stating the opposite. I want to make sure I didn’t miss a confirmation one way or the other. Thank you in advance!

    VLH says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    December 10, 2013 at 4:01 am
    I’ve seen comments lately referring to Kaine sending James away. Just curious if it has been decided (lack of a better word) that the article below is totally incorrect/false? Curious especially b/c there appear to be direct quotes from both of them.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html?mobRedir=false

    Thursday, August 19, 2010 ( snip )

    In February, Terri sent James to Roseburg to live with his maternal grandparents.

  39. Amys Sister says:

    @ NelMel, I held down a job and birthed babies three times while living on acreage. I can say with certainty that allowing your toddler to run through the sprinkler with your boxer as you spread beauty bark, taking him or her to the veggie garden to help dig weeds and eat strawberries, or putting him down to nap on the front porch while you mow the lawn is most definitely possible and even creates precious memories.

    Besides, there is no evidence Kaine left notes and demands for Terri except her word. Meanwhile there is evidence she wanted her husband to believe she did far more than she actually did then made up stories to their acquaintances to make him look bad.

    I guess our POV’s differ here.

  40. A Texas Grandfather says:

    Children’s memory at an early age is so variable that Kiara may not have a memory of her mother. Having said that, and knowing Kaine’s need for control, he may have worked hard to erase any of Kiara’s memories of her mother. Did the child never ask about her mother as Kaine wants people to believe? I say that this is just more of his bs.

    NelMel

    I agree with your position regarding Kaine and how he views the work of taking care of a house and children. He didn’t do very much of it so he is exposing his ignorance of just how much time little ones require of a parent. Fathers have responsibilities too and IMO Kaine had no desire to be a proper father. Instead he chose to be a man about town always on the lookout for an opportunity for a new relationship with a woman.

    There are 136 pages to his deposition that took place over 2 days. I found the 20 plus pages I have read staggering in his ability to never say a single thing directly. Le advised him what to tell his toddler about his mother?

    My bippy they did. He is already on record that he consulted a therapist on the issue. I don’t care what circular talkabout business he purports- he told that child her mother was dead and that is going to come out so why not come clean already?

    This is eventually going to be an interesting civil tort about LE tactics and “mental impressions” as it relates to custodial interference.

    I gotta say- I have to give TMH for not losing her mind on this guy and having to sit there and listen to that drivel. I am not being unkind, the man’s loss is unspeakable- but so is his daughter’s and he doesn’t even believe half of what he says.
    B

  41. Amys Sister says:

    NelMel says: …It sounds like the two of them were in this psych war over everything — behavior, appearances, etc. And remember DY’s letter that she read out loud to TMH? She indicated that she got it about KH, and that she was the one person who ‘got it’ about what TMH was experiencing with Prince Intel.
    ______

    It sure does appear they let a lot of resentment build between them. The toxicity in the household must have been thick.

    I do remember DY’s letter and I agree that Kaine was probably a difficult husband, especially with the cheating but that may have been a two way street in their marriage. Nonetheless, for him to do it while his wife is in PPD is just cold and it’s my hunch that is what Desiree is referring to… the cheating and cold behavior.

    Looking back it appears they built their relationship on lies from very early. People were led to believe Terri was friends with Desiree in the beginning, that Terri moved in with Kaine to care for Kyron when he was an infant, her ‘touched up’ LinkedIn profile, his leaving out the trip to the gym the morning Kyron disappeared…

  42. Amys Sister says:

    I’m going to take this a step further because I think it fits and I believe it is the motive in why Kyron is no longer with us.

    All my opinion only:
    It is probably true Kaine told Terri she would not get custody of Kiara if they divorce and Terri believed him. She knew what he did to Desiree. She was in a state of frustration and hatred that he was in control. I think it very possible that she thought, “If I can’t have Kiara, you can’t have Kyron. I have given up so much for this boy and you are threatening to take my daughter? You POS.”

    And there the ball started rolling. No one to take out Kaine so next step, find someone to take his kid.

    I find that to be the most logical sequence of things and I don’t believe it excuses the investigative tactics of LE or the verbage and use of the children’s images on hater sites. :( I also still believe firmly it needs to be proven or our constitution is a waste of paper.

    That said, right now, it’s not about anyone but Kitty. Kantor and Vien should take this very seriously and it is my fervent hope they are.

  43. GraceintheHills says:

    Blink, I cannot ever recall a case of conspiracy/MFH or solicitation that was charged without gathering corroborating evidence in one way or another. That she was never charged tells me LE had no such evidence. I suspect LE looked at others whom they thought she may have approached.

    Yes ma’am. Yet they kept her from her child for over 3 years.

    Anyone else notice there was no mention of an inappropriate relationship as referred to initially in Rackner filings, ie: sexting?
    B

  44. vw says:

    Kaine did not pay alimony to Desiree.
    B

    Morning. Blanket of Frost, here. No not talking about one of the characters. Hear Snowstorm there?

    Yes. I was talking about Kaine getting child support from Desiree. (oopsie, not alimony) Was he?

    Was not, never tried to since April 2004.
    B

  45. Amys Sister says:

    Late.. Punchy on case(s) overload and Harper likes snow as opposed to hurrying her business- of course. Pup needs to go to bed with Mr. Blink on midnight oil burnings- note to self.

    But… I have been envisioning Rose at Katniss for days, lol!
    B
    ______

    Sweet baby… so glad you have her. I love my little fluffy girl.

    My money’s on Rose. SZ or Katniss wouldn’t stand a chance.

    **********

    Rose says:

    December 9, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    I have a Q. Why has Engel become the litigating attorney?
    Imo he’s not as competent as Rackner

    Because she can be called as a witness- conflict.
    B
    _____

    I swear I had the sense that it was Rackner’s words in the response and was surprised to find Engel’s siggy at the bottom.

  46. Amys Sister says:

    CD says: I don’t understand why TH would have to fear Kaine getting custody of Kiara because if Kaine got custody then Kiara would have been separated rom her sibling James who was also a stepchild in kaines and TH’s marriage. Probably the best Kaine could have done would have been joint custody and I am sure that TH knew that.
    ____

    I could see that being true except that James was no longer living in the home which could have been seen as Terri not recognizing the importance of children being reared together.

    That said, I know from experience the concept of siblings remaining in the same home can be secondary to what the court might consider the best interest of the child. It is used as a supporting argument but in the case I am aware of it was not the hinging argument nor did the judge even give it weight in his ruling.

    I don’t buy it and neither does anyone else. I opined on this very early on as a possibility, and I want to say Atty Conner weighed in on it as well. Kaine needed a motive to tie to this ridiculous sham story of Mr. GreenJeans because half the free world reading this today does not believe as smart as he is, that he acted or should I say reacted as severely as he did based on this uncorroborated and frankly, silly allegation that imo just never happened.

    Btw- just wondering here. So RSE refused her- why was he at her house asking her for $10k?
    B

  47. Amys Sister says:

    erose says: (snipped) I emphasize a man that TH pointed to, and LE had to seek out, not the other way around….
    _____

    Hi erose. Isn’t it possible LE knew of RSE prior to interviewing Terri about him? She did not fess up to his existence until the word landscaper was used (It’s difficult to believe that was unintentional).

    I imagined her being asked about a gardener or anyone else who had been to the home. She denies knowing anyone who had been to the home. She sees in the face of her interviewer that he knows she is lying and when he then uses the term landscaper she feigns dumb and says, “oh yea, the landscaper”.

    So in this way, it is not Terri who pointed to Rudy, it is LE already knew of Rudy then sought to see if Terri would admit to his existence.

    Amy’s Sis- not the way it went down. A family friend was discussing her interviews with LE with TMH and another family member on the line. She was going down the list she gave and the family friend stopped her at gardener and said- could they mean that guy who did the bushes you had the problem with? TMH yelled something to the effect of OMG, that’s right, I completely forgot about him and she followed up with LE immediately. I will note that while I am not identifying either party, the family friend has been interviewed by the FBI and is credible.

    B

  48. Amys Sister says:

    Amy’s Sis- not the way it went down. A family friend was discussing her interviews with LE with TMH and another family member on the line. She was going down the list she gave and the family friend stopped her at gardener and said- could they mean that guy who did the bushes you had the problem with? TMH yelled something to the effect of OMG, that’s right, I completely forgot about him and she followed up with LE immediately. I will note that while I am not identifying either party, the family friend has been interviewed by the FBI and is credible.

    B
    ____

    Excellent. Thank you for clarifying. I prefer to know the facts so greatly appreciate you sharing.

    Re: the $10k request during the sting… I just chalked that up to LE stupidity but maybe there’s an angle there.

  49. grasshopper says:

    In that portion of K’s deposition attached to the scribed doc, he, as Rose pointed out, never says anything directly or clearly. He implies that much of what he knows or remembers is mixed up with what LE told him. Great excuse not to have to tell the truth. Instead of “I don’t remember” he can say “LE might have told me”.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/190547211/Horman-v-Horman-Divorce

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