Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police

A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued  ©

S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime

DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman

 

In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher,  she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court.  Unofficially cleared, that is.

Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley,  who have since refused all local media requests,  would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.

Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide.  While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously,  her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.

As was proven not only by her recent polygraph,  but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place,  Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.

The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher  as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.  Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.

Stoy: So, in your estimation then,  why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.

Spicher:  I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons.  I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with.  He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc.  I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name.   As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order,  she was also told that

Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that?  I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.

Spicher: No.  I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th.    I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.

Stoy: ok, sorry, continue.  So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?

Spicher:  They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding.  It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June,  and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March.  So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?

To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.

Stoy: Which was?

Spicher: At first,  I think that they really believed I was involved,  and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was,  and my vehicle never left, nor did I.  They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.

Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case,  they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?

Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect.  I never felt that way,  but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever,  but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.

Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?

Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did.  To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning.    I would ask like who do you mean,  because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this.  I was scared and it turned out it was good reason.   I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.

Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice?  Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that.  People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies.  I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative.  In fact,  Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly.  So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.

Spicher: (laughs) Interesting.  I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.

Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?

Spicher: No,  do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?

Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?

Spicher:  I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house.  Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.

Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?

Spicher: That’s it,  yes, him.  Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?

Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through,  and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you.  If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information,  I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?

Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.

Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back ,  considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work?  What did your attorney say when you told him?

Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney,  but to answer your question as to my opinion,  I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction.  After more thought,  and other conversations,  I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible.   What is your opinion on it?

Stoy:  I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece.  Again, not wanting to temper your opinions  as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did.  Is that ok with you?

Spicher: Sure, thank you.

Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion.  I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman.  Is that correct?

Spicher: Correct, ok.

Stoy: Did they ask you this?

Spicher: Who is they?  You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).

Stoy: Fair point, you’re right.  The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor.  Allow me to rephrase please.  Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?

Spicher:  Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?

Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?

Spicher: (laughs) touche’ .  I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids.  I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.

Stoy: Why shock you?

Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing”  and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well,  impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.

Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct?  That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc.  And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?

Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury.  But yes, that is what she told me.  I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her.  To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement .  I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case,  but yes,  they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are.  But that is my assumption.

Stoy:  Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s  service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home?  Spicher:  I am not sure about the exclusive use part,  I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.

Stoy: Ok.  Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory.  By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.

Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.

Stoy:  How would you know that?

Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request.   She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids.  I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.

Stoy: ok,  understood,  we will get back to that.  I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.”  Do you recall what year, even ballpark.

Spicher:  I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005,  and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.

Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine,  I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help.  Do you remember where you were during the conversation.

Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell,  Terri had a lot of drama,  and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know,  we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.

Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?

Spicher:  Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention.  It was either during that call or at the lunch.  Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.

Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?

Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.

Stoy: Got it.  What did she say

Spicher:  She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”.  She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her.  She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller.  The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him.  I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.

Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from?  Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?

SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.

Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person?  Sort of like…  she gets approval to remain anonymous,  she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?

Spicher: Yes, something like that.  Except and again,  we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out.  The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact.  From what I recall,  I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.

Stoy: Understood,  so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day,  but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.

Spicher: Yes,  I think so.

Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice.  I don’t think so because she did not ask for any.  So then what?  Did Kaine find out?

Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy,  and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day.   If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember,  that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.

Stoy: Ok.  Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?

Spicher:    Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed,  it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing.   She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office.   We did.

Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what?  Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher:  I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served,  in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le,  but it would surprise me.  Terri was always very family centric.  She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing,  this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.

Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: No, not at all.

Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?

Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper.   He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.

Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting”  and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”

Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.

Stoy: She specifically said the FBI,  who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.

Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s  contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?

Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?

 

Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?

It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years.  The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier.  As a strong argument for the trickle down effect,  Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle,  was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report.   A former Sheriff,   Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications.  The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place.  Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.

In fact,  Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.

MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.

The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell.   O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.

There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.

In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week,  it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.

It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan,  the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.

Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.

After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids  a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption  tipping other’s off  in the alleged ring ,  Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso,  Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested.  The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike.   The specifics of which were sealed by the court.  It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.

Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids?  How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?

“… Jackson,   through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”

“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest.  He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”

 On June 3rd, 2010,  approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance,  Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.

From the Indictment:

Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury,  in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden.  Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products.  Worden has never been charged.

 Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and

841(b)( 1)(E).

 

The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known  to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).

 

The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin,  a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.

 

According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.

 

 

From Buff To Puff

 

In contrast to Jackson,  although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement,  William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon”  cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.

In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote,  “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”

 

Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way.  Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client,  was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.

 

John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case,  sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well.  Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question.  Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason.  The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.

“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”

Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.

Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.

 

On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.

Andrew Millbrooke  filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby,  Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith  for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot.   In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy.  The suit is pending.  A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion.  Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].

 

With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against  Traverso were dismissed  this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.

Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation.  Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.

As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .

Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold  illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.

However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids,  but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.

“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.

“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.

He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.

At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”

S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.

The source,  an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…”   “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…”  The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.

Reached for comment,  Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.

A request for comment to Mr. Bunch,  Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.

 

More Questions Than Answers..

Following several hours of interviews with  DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?

Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.

She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”

She was not.

Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself.  Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.

Through Spicher,  Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness”  which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc,  Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th.  His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.

Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought.  Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.

 

Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada  Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous.  Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom,  to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.

To her knowledge,  there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.

In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.

 

Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:

“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”

 

Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators.  One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer,  at their own expense  The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had  agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.

“…  This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.

 

The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”

 

I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange.  She had.  I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.

Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion.  Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.

I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home.  She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.

Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?

Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.

Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper?  I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen,  and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.

Spicher:  No, it wasn’t.  Kaine bought it.  It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property.   I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home.  I  mean, like cleaning the gutters,  cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing.  To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.

Stoy: With a baby,  7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that?  No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help.  I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.

Spicher:  No,  Terri  had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children.  I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money.  I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage.  One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that.  I believe the other was the landscaper.

Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.

Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that?  But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.

Stoy:  Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?

Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].

Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement.  Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you.  Are you angry about that?

Spicher:  O my no.  That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine.  I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can..   I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them.   I really pray that Kyron will be found,  I choose to put my energy into hope for that.

Pending Matters

Through Attorney Bunch,  Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.

In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday,  Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.

Early this afternoon,  a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.

A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013

 

 

Jacqueline Beaufort,  Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.

Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.

 

 

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4,398 Comments

  1. vw says:

    @ grasshopper says:
    December 8, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Re: ” Houze protested that protocol for notice wasn’t followed and requested an emergency hearing about it. No further mention of perpetuity. Since RSE was originally scheduled for depo, can we assume this was re-scheduled and carried out? Was Houze also allowed to depo RSE, even though he was denied this earlier in the case?”

    VW says,

    Grasshopper, Houze was not denied ability to examine at the perpetuity depo. But if he did he would have had to prepare for a perpetuity depo in 3 days. Or let Engels depo without Rudy showing up for court to cross.

    My guess? Knowing what kind of persistence Houze has, if that 3-day deadline was upheld by Kantor Houze would have gottent there somehow and crossed then.

    But I have a hunch they postponed it for a regular depo and Houze/Bunch were there.

    This is, remember, from the “Response” to TMH’s motion to show cause. It’s important to Rees/Engels to WIN this one for the gipper, Kaine, so to speak.

    Engel’s spinning is in the “leakIng” of this document. Just like the sexting, just like the “abduction” attempt of Kiara. Just like the “Kaine is the primary parent” and “Kiara never mentioned her mother and doesn’t know who she is.”

    Most bang for the buck: Yes, a Friday night with no chance for anything but watch the torches coming out with ONLY Anna’s favorite collection of “quotes” from the document and from Kaine.

    However, you know as well as I do that this is a desparate attempt by Rees. And we both know how much he is at the hip of Engels even when asked to leave.

    We’ve watched the judge when Engel’s does these theatrics. It is my guess that Houze will write a response and that the judge will then look at both interpretations of the truth.

    Engel’s theatrics don’t impress him. His “What gets me is houze over there saying she’s innocent” got him nowhere, did it? Nor his contention that the “sexting” proved TMH had 350,000 to “pay” Houze. Kantor shot him down on that.

    BUT…what is seen can’t be unseen. Rees will have garnerned a bunch of post, present, and future believers no matter what Houze and Bunch do to wrap up this part with a win for TMH.

    I don’t wonder that they will, either. Because it’s Kaine’s own depo that Kantor will consider. How could Kaine say he knew of NO REASON to believe TMH was not a good mother other than what LE told him if he truly believed he was about to be killed any day.

    And it is the evaluator’s decision I think that Kantor will most rely on in the end.

  2. RedRose says:

    It boggles my mind, it does, that a person hires somebody to cut their grass and goes from there to lunch to MFH. How – if this all really happened – would the hiring person have an idea that a person they hire for yard work would be even remotely interested in adding a murder to their resume.

    IOW what sort of conversation they would have had to lead to the point of “Hey, Ruby, want more work??”

    @cd says: December 8, 2013 at 8:13 am

  3. RedRose says:

    I think I’m lost here. How exactly does MFH relate to Kyron’s disappearance?

  4. Rose says:

    What I’m wondering is what are the implications where in a brief a civil attorney presents sworn depo testimony as to an inflammatory non-crime as veracious, knowing that testimony has been precluded by the Judge from cross examination & testing as evidence in the instant case?

    We are about to find out of course, but it is improper use given the court commentary on the record and previous orders.

    For starters, there is the issue of context v quoting.

    Does everyone believe me now that this opens the door for LE to be deposed, and subsequently Rees will wish to be heard, yada yada.

    Kantor does not seem like much of a striker to me. Especially when this witness goes to basis of the RO. Reading now the RSE says “she implied” v said “get rid of him”- I can assure you he was never polygraphed to this issue.

    B

  5. Rose says:

    @RedRose. The abduction of Kyron cannot be tied to Stepmother, therefore the abduction isn’t relevant to custody & visitation wrt a half-sib. However, custody & visitation is reasonably impacted when mother plots death of father in child’s presence.

  6. Rose says:

    what is “Barge Brigade”?

    My snark for river patrol.
    B

  7. Rose says:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/12/kitzhaber_apparently_plans_to.html#incart_river
    at a public el ed? Why not his son’s private school.

    My sympathies to all w/out electricity in Portland.

  8. vw says:

    Well, I just saw Anna’s new story.

    She states that Kaine’s lawyers were drawing, in their Response to the Motion to Show Cause, a correlation between the MFH attempt and the disappearance of Kyron.

    However, H/B have made a statement that what Rudy states in the deposition is “inaccurate” and that they will ask for an emergency hearing on the matter.

    Houze claims that if they are not allowed to depo Rudy themselves that the judge must IGNORE the statements they are making.

    Which makes my previous statements about reciprical attendance at the depo of Rudy rather enthusiastic.

    So…..Blink, or any one else familiar with a divorce hearing…..

    1. Was Rackner/Engels team able to go ahead with the “perpetuity” depo without Houze and didn’t Kantor have to rule on that?
    2. Did Rackner/Engels do a regular depo but not notify Houze?

    What just happened here?

    Good news for TMH, however. Never before would Houze and Bunch reply so quickly and so publically.
    And to have Anna relay the message to the public on a Sunday evening.

    Says, to me, that the momentum is headed in the direction of a continued fierce fight for the truth.

    Whatever that might be.

  9. grasshopper says:

    http://www.katu.com/news/local/Terri-Hormans-lawyers-ask-for-emergency-hearing-234981351.html

    PORTLAND, Ore. — Lawyers for Terri Horman have asked the judge presiding over her divorce from Kaine Horman for an emergency hearing to discuss allegations made by a landscaper who claims Terri tried to hire him to kill Kaine.

    On Friday KATU disclosed details from a deposition given by the landscaper, Rodolfo Sanchez, that included his claims that Terri had told him Kaine regularly carried $10,000 and a computer, and his murder could be made to look like a mugging.

    In court papers, Kaine’s lawyers draw a connection between that and the disappearance of his son, Kyron, who was last seen shortly after being dropped off at school by Terri, his stepmother, almost four years ago.

    They use the landscaper’s allegations to argue that Terri should not be allowed to spend time with their daughter, now 4 years old.

    “The Sanchez testimony establishes an extreme risk of harm to” Kiara as well as Kaine, they argue. “The Sanchez testimony establishes a motive surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.”

    In court papers of their own, Terri’s lawyers argue the other side is presenting “an incomplete and inaccurate accounting of events … to prevent parenting time and to further smear (Terri) before the court and in the public record.”

    To illustrate what they mean by incomplete, they refer to the allegation by Kaine’s lawyers that the landscaper claimed Terri wanted to “get rid of” Kaine.

    They include an excerpt from the deposition where the landscaper is asked if Terri used “the words ‘get rid of?’”

    The landscaper replies: “No, she implied it, not specifically.”

    They call his testimony “unreliable” and contend that Kaine’s lawyers use it in an “improper” fashion.

    Further complicating the issue is a contention by Terri’s lawyers that some of the interaction between Kaine’s lawyers and the landscaper in the deposition is based on information from the criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance.

    They argue that information should not have been allowed to be brought up – and now that it has, they should be allowed to question the landscaper and law enforcement officials about the testimony.

    “Based on what occurred in the Sanchez deposition, (Terri) contends that (Kaine) has opened the door to further discovery by asking a series of questions the origin of which can only have come from law enforcement,” Terri’s lawyers argue.

    Terri’s lawyers want the judge to let them cross-examine the landscaper and law enforcement about some of his allegations and state that if he says no, then “the court should strike those portions” of filings by Kaine’s lawyers that refer to the landscaper’s testimony.

    The next hearing is scheduled for Dec. 19.

  10. MockingbirdSings says:

    So where did this come from on Sunday night (Dec. 8)? I’m sure attorneys can work any hours they want to, but how was it available to Canzano and Miner on Sunday? Who’s feeding who what? I’m just a little confused.

    Terri Horman’s lawyers ask for hearing over landscaper allegations
    By Anna Canzano and Colin Miner, KATU News Published: Dec 8, 2013 at 11:00 PM PST

    http://www.katu.com/news/local/Terri-Hormans-lawyers-ask-for-emergency-hearing-234981351.html

    (snipped)
    In court papers of their own, Terri’s lawyers argue the other side is presenting “an incomplete and inaccurate accounting of events … to prevent parenting time and to further smear (Terri) before the court and in the public record.”

    To illustrate what they mean by incomplete, they refer to the allegation by Kaine’s lawyers that the landscaper claimed Terri wanted to “get rid of” Kaine.

    They include an excerpt from the deposition where the landscaper is asked if Terri used “the words ‘get rid of?’”

    The landscaper replies: “No, she implied it, not specifically.”

    They call his testimony “unreliable” and contend that Kaine’s lawyers use it in an “improper” fashion.

    Further complicating the issue is a contention by Terri’s lawyers that some of the interaction between Kaine’s lawyers and the landscaper in the deposition is based on information from the criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance.

    They argue that information should not have been allowed to be brought up – and now that it has, they should be allowed to question the landscaper and law enforcement officials about the testimony.

    “Based on what occurred in the Sanchez deposition, (Terri) contends that (Kaine) has opened the door to further discovery by asking a series of questions the origin of which can only have come from law enforcement,” Terri’s lawyers argue.

    Terri’s lawyers want the judge to let them cross-examine the landscaper and law enforcement about some of his allegations and state that if he says no, then “the court should strike those portions” of filings by Kaine’s lawyers that refer to the landscaper’s testimony.

    The next hearing is scheduled for Dec. 19.

  11. vw says:

    Well, perhaps I was correct in assuming that the depo of Rudy was attended enmass:

    Here is her written version. Different from the Broadcast news that she anchored at 11:

    PORTLAND, Ore. — Lawyers for Terri Horman have asked the judge presiding over her divorce from Kaine Horman for an emergency hearing to discuss allegations made by a landscaper who claims Terri tried to hire him to kill Kaine.

    On Friday KATU disclosed details from a deposition given by the landscaper, Rodolfo Sanchez, that included his claims that Terri had told him Kaine regularly carried $10,000 and a computer, and his murder could be made to look like a mugging.

    In court papers, Kaine’s lawyers draw a connection between that and the disappearance of his son, Kyron, who was last seen shortly after being dropped off at school by Terri, his stepmother, almost four years ago.

    They use the landscaper’s allegations to argue that Terri should not be allowed to spend time with their daughter, now 4 years old.

    “The Sanchez testimony establishes an extreme risk of harm to” Kiara as well as Kaine, they argue. “The Sanchez testimony establishes a motive surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.”

    In court papers of their own, Terri’s lawyers argue the other side is presenting “an incomplete and inaccurate accounting of events … to prevent parenting time and to further smear (Terri) before the court and in the public record.”

    To illustrate what they mean by incomplete, they refer to the allegation by Kaine’s lawyers that the landscaper claimed Terri wanted to “get rid of” Kaine.

    They include an excerpt from the deposition where the landscaper is asked if Terri used “the words ‘get rid of?’”

    The landscaper replies: “No, she implied it, not specifically.”

    They call his testimony “unreliable” and contend that Kaine’s lawyers use it in an “improper” fashion.

    Further complicating the issue is a contention by Terri’s lawyers that some of the interaction between Kaine’s lawyers and the landscaper in the deposition is based on information from the criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance.

    They argue that information should not have been allowed to be brought up – and now that it has, they should be allowed to question the landscaper and law enforcement officials about the testimony.

    “Based on what occurred in the Sanchez deposition, (Terri) contends that (Kaine) has opened the door to further discovery by asking a series of questions the origin of which can only have come from law enforcement,” Terri’s lawyers argue.

    Terri’s lawyers want the judge to let them cross-examine the landscaper and law enforcement about some of his allegations and state that if he says no, then “the court should strike those portions” of filings by Kaine’s lawyers that refer to the landscaper’s testimony.

    The next hearing is scheduled for Dec. 19th.”

    Hmmh…Got ahold of Houze’s reply? Or had a chat with Houze??

    Can’t argue with the example of “inaccurate” representation of the depo….

    Houze of Bunch: “Rudy…did TMH really say she wanted to get “RID OFF” her sweetie-pie”
    Rudy:… ” Well, no…I think she meant that…well, she didn’t specifically say that….but…..”

  12. Essay Kaye says:

    RS went under oath – did not take the 5th – for his deposition. The judge will be able to read the transcript of the deposition and conclude whether KH’s attorneys “opened the door” by venturing into prohibited areas of questioning pursuant to the Court’s previous ruling. I wonder if making public the entrie deposition would benefit TH’s case or just do more harm?

    He would not be eligible to take the 5th essay- he was granted criminal immunity.

    Personally, given the snippets Engel included, or should I say failed to include ernestly, I think it would benefit TMH to have it released.
    B

  13. Rose says:

    interesting, Terri, or Kaine could in the course of the divorce, provide fodder for a marital tort:
    http://www.smartdivorce.com/articles/torts.shtml

    “The defendant doesn’t have to be charged with a crime and the defendant’s behavior doesn’t have to be classified as a felony in the state where the act occurred.”

    “…It is possible that you may make certain admissions or statements during deposition testimony, answers to interrogatories, or in a trial. Those admissions could be used by your spouse or ex-spouse to support a marital tort action. The same goes for any findings made by a judge regarding your conduct during the marriage.”

    It seems to me depo of RSE provides the requisite threshhold for a marital tort suit by KH

  14. Mom3.0 says:

    Blink 2 of my posts are still in moderation:

    Nope, your up and needed the time to respond in total. Thanks for your patience.
    B

  15. Rose says:

    @Amy’s wrt “I think either side can depose anyone they want but I could be wrong.” Yes, I was referring to usual practice. Usually the depo is taken by the opponent not the ally, but DA/Kantor have barred tge opponent from deposing, while permitting the ally.Rises to level of misconduct if you ask me.

    & wrt “Do we know if Matthews was not been deposed by Houze? I thought Kantor stated school staff could be?” Press reported (not going to go back to find link, it’s back in this thread) Engel stopped Matthews during her depo to call the Judge & get him to order Bunch could not ask the mere fact did LE interview her, not the content. Why permit it for RSE & not Matthews?

    Matthews was deposed, yes. To my knowledge, Kantor never said RSE could not be deposed, but I think there is enough on the record that a framework exists. AND there is no duty to inform as to the rescheduled deposition so long as it was not going to be offered in perpetuity so it MAY be that they rescheduled it and both counsels were present. I don’t recall seeing any order associated with the emergency hearing request on the matter when Kantor was out, so maybe we are missing that in the file or a stipulation somewhere.

    Media not including documents to support their articles is really improper journalism and reporting in this case, while I am on the topic.

    If I were HouzeofBunch, I would let their lawyers ask all kinds of questions that infringe on what was investigative and “protected” without objection. It’s their witness and they might just be dumb enough to use it so I can get another bite at that apple.

    Which, now they have. Brilliant strategy really.

    I am starting to think every family court lawyer should practice with a criminal defense attorney.
    B

  16. Mom3.0 says:

    oops seems I missed another post missing in mod:

    Mom3.0 says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    December 8, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    Again sorry for being a Bhog-

    —Since Im here i was thinking about yr comments to Rose:

    Rose says:
    December 9, 2013 at 12:15 am

    What I’m wondering is what are the implications where in a brief a civil attorney presents sworn depo testimony as to an inflammatory non-crime as veracious, knowing that testimony has been precluded by the Judge from cross examination & testing as evidence in the instant case?

    We are about to find out of course, but it is improper use given the court commentary on the record and previous orders.

    For starters, there is the issue of context v quoting.

    Does everyone believe me now that this opens the door for LE to be deposed, and subsequently Rees will wish to be heard, yada yada.

    Kantor does not seem like much of a striker to me. Especially when this witness goes to basis of the RO. Reading now the RSE says “she implied” v said “get rid of him”- I can assure you he was never polygraphed to this issue.

    B


    Yes I do believe this may open the door to LE being deposed…

    Could it be that someone in terris camp leaked the story to get this all out in the open and then argue for an emergency hearing etc…IDk but this depo appears thin…and does seem to facilitate benefits for terris case rather than for kaines…

    regardless it is obvious that Houze and Bunch know how to work the leak and the story to their benefit how ever much money they are making they certainly seem worth it…I bet Kaine does wish that he had 10 thousand on him at all times…cuz the longer this goes on and the more (less) that comes to light it seems he will eventually have to pay that bill too…

    AJMO Peace

    I just opined in my reply to Rose I do think it noteworthy that the benefit of having 2nd chair criminal counsel is obvious- and prudent in this case.

    If this was in my jurisdiction or some others I am aware of I can tell you right now that Kaine would be paying retroactive spousal support and TMH’s reasonable attorney fees. Possibly retroactive to the “stay” dates if a plenary hearing could be secured.

    Again, if this is all there was from RSE, TMH is going to go the route of the Aisenberg’s.

    I wish this was in front of a Judge with true family court experience, however.
    B

  17. Rose says:

    This divorce reminds me of N Khawam & G Wolfe. He was no saint nor perfect Dad, but I defy anyone to say she isn’t either most likely a borderline or narcissistic PD. There are many sites with Court transcripts & long thoughtful analysis, I was looking for one of the fine Judge’s bottom line blurbs. There were several. Note this one was based on her emails (harassment) to private parties, imo much less egregious than media outlets, therefore much less harrassing than KH’s behavior in this case. Too bad their divorce does not have this Judge; it would be over with TH having full custody by now.

    “The court ultimately took issue with Khawam, a lawyer, and her allegations against her ex-husband. It found that domestic-violence allegations were “part of an ever-expanding set of sensational accusations . . . that are so numerous, so extraordinary and [so] distorted that they defy any common-sense view of reality.”
    http://news.lalate.com/2012/11/13/natalie-khawam-grayson-wolfe-emails-dominated-court-dispute/

  18. Rose says:

    mbs. well, that explains the reason for the leak. Bunch’s response to RSE’s testimony had gone to Team Kaine & the Team (quite legally imo) shared both with his coffee friend to apply public & media pressure. Then katu had a staged release. I’m not surprised at Canzano, but Minor, who appears to be shepherding this, has a better background. She’s not done any investigation–speaking to RSE, attempts to verify his statements, etc. Her reporting is siply Sara Ganim’s polar opposite. Which is why she’ll be stuck in Portland for life. Didn’t she grow up there? Probably it suits her. The O failing to write on this (second toot unverifiable by double-sourcing “news) gives me a bit more respect.

  19. Rose says:

    @Blink. wrt ” keep in mind LE knew about SZ and that was not RSE.” Have you finally revealed SZ was not Hispanic?

    I am saying SZ does not match RSE description or physical characteristics generally, no.
    B

  20. grasshopper says:

    I’ve read so many posts this morning that I’m not keeping names straight, but someone asked how BunchofHouzes could have come up with their response so quickly, over a weekend, when the leak didn’t occur until 11 pm friday night. Engel’s document was probably filed a day or 2 before then, with copies served to each attorney on both sides. While BoH would not have known it would be leaked to media they probably prepared a response document right after getting it, so it wouldn’t be that difficult to prepare a media statement. MOO is that they did not wait until sunday evening to contact katu but provided it earlier and katu for their own inscrutable reasons waited until late sunday night to report. I believe this is the first time BoH has made a statement to media. I’d have thought it would be a big deal but guess not to them.

  21. Rose says:

    wrt “more than one Judge said there was enough to arrest TMH for the mfh. ” TY for reminding us KH wrote this in his affidavit.

    either the Barge Brigade (mcso) or the ADA lied to these Judges, or the Judges are willing to make that statement where the statements of RSE do not begin to comply with the criminal state thresshold & the Judges engaged in misconduct. either possibbility needs an independent State AG investigation.
    That investigation needs to cover
    1) who presented RSE’ allegation to the Judges to obtain the sting warrant
    2) content of allegations
    3) to which Judges
    4) did any make that statement?
    5) which issued the warrant?
    6) who conveyed info to KH which his affidavit incorporated, and on which statements J Meis relied as true?
    7) content of info conveyed to KH?

    This needs a State AG investigation because illegal acts violating a citizen’s rights occured at the level of mcso, or the ADA, or the judiciary, resulted–which could happen (and probably has) to anyone in Mult County
    —–
    wrt ” HOWEVER, I am going to ASSUME that what RSE is saying in his depo is NOT what Kaine/Rackner was told or even in the zipcode of what was offered to substantiate the allegation because if it was, then I take back my opinion Kaine and his counsels actions were in Kitty’s best interests, that proper due diligence was performed and I find both behaviors wreckless and negligent”

    …your finest hour…

    Excelsior!

  22. Rose says:

    typo correcting: statutory threshhold

  23. Rose says:

    @Blink. Has to be that Judge was handpicked for a reason imo.
    Speculation and opinion only:
    no family court experience.
    not a criminal court judge.
    “complex civil cases” are his thing. not even in the realm.
    history of idiosyncratic rulings based as much on his personal feelings
    as the evidence. prior opinions reflect an arrogant temperment imo.
    probably most importantly, seeking to remain
    embedded in whatever political structure got him nominated for & endorsed for
    (DA required) Federal Judge appointment the last time (translation, has a hand to feed).

  24. Rose says:

    wrt “Terri’s lawyers want the judge to let them cross-examine the landscaper and law enforcement about some of his allegations and state that if he says no, then “the court should strike those portions” of filings by Kaine’s lawyers that refer to the landscaper’s testimony.” Sure looks like those are the Judge’s only 2 choices. By now, while I originally thought TH must be involved beccauseLE & the bios said so, I’ve come to believe in her shoes I’d be shocked if with every regular acquaintance at coffee (when K was 1or less if in her hearing), any wife of Kaine’s coukd not have reasonably said things like. I’ve got to divorce the SOB, but he’ll take Kiara from me. I wish someone would mug him for his computer & cash, like when he’s out buying steroids, and he doesn’t come back.

    Or.. Say..

    You seem like a lovely guy, however, I cannot afford to hire you any longer as my husband just spent $10K on lawn equipment- believe me, I am not thrilled, it is still my responsibility.

    Greenjeans: That sucks, why would you stay with someone like that?

    TMH: Because he has custody of his son from a prior marriage from her Mother, sent my oldest son to live with my parents and he told me I cant even get my own place without a job and this house is in his name- not worth the risk.

    Seriously. I have never watched a soap opera in my life but I know many do- this has to have resonated with some plot.

    B

  25. T. Ruth says:

    @Rose says:
    December 9, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    I was just thinking about the O’s absence as well. I am wondering if they feel they’ve been used by LE and no longer want to play these games. Wouldn’t blame them a bit if they bowed out like WW did long ago.

    **********

    So the landscaper said Terri “implied” that she wanted to off her husband? What kind of BS is this? Next, will we see the hate letter(s)? Will they too be made up of implications? Just yesterday I told my MIL I could kill my husband for not bringing in the kindling the night before. Good grief, this case. No wonder the GJ hasn’t produced a true bill.

    At lest something is moving along, stalemate is over.

  26. Amys Sister says:

    Images of the document from which Canzano’s information came do not appear to be redacted so she had access to all the info when her tidbit article and broadcast was released Friday night.

    Murder Business and all that…

    True Dat.

    And where is RSE counsel in this, btw?
    B

  27. Rose says:

    entrapment habits in Portland.
    Run on middle schoolers, using sex drive.
    Those HBLee kids have a great defense.
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/atf_abuses_ran_rampant_in_port.html#incart_river

  28. Rose says:

    with mcso running the investigation & leading the stings, god help the US Attorney’s prosecution, imo
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/high-level_gang_members_busted.html#incart_river

  29. Rose says:

    I see Bernstein did re-toot katu’s story.
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/landscaper_says_terri_horman_w.html
    If she did not interview RSE, even by phone, she again rises to the bottom,
    which with the exception of WW & maybe Kyle are not in
    the journalist professional mainstream, tho apparently the norm for Portland.

  30. Amys Sister says:

    I am saying SZ does not match RSE description or physical characteristics generally, no.
    B
    ______

    Just guessing, here. Slender white male. Maybe lighter colored or little hair.

    ****

    From the article: The landscaper replies: “No, she implied it, not specifically.”

    We can see here RSE speaks very good English. And IMO he is being honest. Maybe he didn’t go to LE because he felt Terri was not totally committed to the MFH or because he did not want to get involved enough to be forced into a sting, which he eventully was anyway.

    Maybe LE really did botch this as much as you’ve been saying, Blink. In other words, they did not have enough on Terri but they portrayed it all along as if they did to the bios and the public.

    Still Staton’s comments haunt me so at least he/Staton truly believed Terri planned and executed this whole thing or there is very troubling evidence not yet known publicly.

  31. vw says:

    Heading out. Quick note:

    Maxine has article now on both. Doesn’t link docs however. I hear the courthouse, city hall are lights-out today, but might go later this week.

    GH…did you go Friday?

  32. Rose says:

    Idk why would O headline a story “Court Records” and fail to state they Have the Court Records they rely on.
    Records are not linked.
    Perhaps Bernstein did not have the records she quotes from &
    the whole article is a secondhand re-toot. Let’s see if Kyle goes
    the same slothful route.

  33. T. Ruth says:

    Would be interesting to know if Kaine’s ex-wife ever told anyone she’d like to kill him. (Yes, I’m being snarky.)

    If this is all they have against Terri and all they’ve ever had, I sure as hell hope they go back to the other 59 persons of interest and start over.

  34. Rose says:

    I gotta find some general credible source for OR news.
    Any of you have local small town newspapers to suggest?

    Walmart Flyer
    B

    ps. sorry, overworked and under-snarked is no way to live.
    B

  35. Mom3.0 says:

    Blink –
    Hi
    I dont mean to be a bother but JFYI all my posts arent up yet, can you still see them?

    you snipped my post pointing them out- these two are still missing-

    Mom3.0 says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    December 8, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    and

    Mom3.0 says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    December 8, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    Blink sometimes I am slow on the uptake…it may be that you r trying to hint to me that you r choosing not to post the missing ones- not sure why that would be- as I dont think I said anything earth shattering just used too many words as usual – so it wouldnt surprise me that these 2 were overlooked amongst the other circumlocutory posts of mine IDK what to think
    …..

    if they dont show up with this latest attempt to alert you to them -then I will take the hint that you wish to hold them and youd like for me to shut up or hire an editor at the least

    Sorry for the inconvenience
    Happy Holidays to you and yours
    over and out :)

    I am getting there, I did not realize you had some in the backdoor, lol.

    Very, very high touch day in 2 cases. I appreciate everyone’s patience.
    B

  36. Rose says:

    Sometimes a word from the NYTimes crossword triggers my thinking as I fall asleep. Last night
    it was my reading about
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Bochco (Yes, I cheat to get answers like LALaw.)
    So I began casting members of this farce in that drama, aka Who is Arnie?
    Then I realized that was ridiculous, Portland merits its own show, and Bochco’s son has stepped up to join the family business.

    New series proposal: City of Roses: Family Court.

    Imagine the characters & dramatic conflict possible. Chief Judge who is seen breaking down & sobbing with spouses in Court. Family Judge who is free to be the model of rectitude as she is independently wealthy due to her husband’s defense of the bad guys. Other Judges (with diversity in the various judge characters) are impacted by need for reelection votes & consequently are dependent on donations & political parties’ goodwill. An all powerful DA. The travails within mcso & ppb where criminal issues arise in Family Court. Great characters coming from those sources. The broadcast media, also a handful of great characters with diversity. Ample opportunity to throw a little pot & coke into the stories, which are centered on illustrative family trials, not merely divorces. Kicking season 1 off, Warroom v Warroom. This has a Jewish Judge with no family Court experience but higher political aspirations, a DA, three white collar firms, and litigants whom even the most creative writer coukdn’t conjure. Throw in one or two emotionally involved media figures who become close to any of the above, and imo this City of Roses series could rival nypd/blue. Just my falling asleep thoughts up Bochco’s alley, based on the Times crossword prompt.

  37. GeorgiaDad says:

    If the landscapers account were true, it suggests a well-thought-out plan by TMH. She suggests (but does not order) a hit, when the killer finds out there is no $10,000 and confronts her, she tells him she will tell the police he killed Kaine and the landscaper quickly flees to Mexico. Of course the potential downside is that people who kill for $10,000 are not particularly trustworthy and could represent a real risk to TMH. I doubt Kaine actually carried around $10,000. Who would do that? I doubt people randomly walked up to him at the gym or at Intel offering to make expensive drug deal.

    That being said, the sequence of events sounds like something out of a godfather movie, with TMH sitting in a booth in an Italian restaurant ordering a hit.

    From an evidence standpoint this was not a Murder FOR HIRE situation. TMH is not alleged to have paid, or offer to pay, anything of value. It is not clear if the landscapers testimony actually implicates TMH of a crime. What we apparently have is the landscapers interpretation of TMH’s verbal and non-verbal clues, which would be quite suspect from a person whose native language is not English.

    The alleged motive for this action was TMH apparently being afraid of losing Baby K. How then would disappearing Kyron serve that purpose?

    I do not have a handle on TMH’s relationship with RSE. What would make her think that he would be willing to commit a murder and could be trusted? Why would she seek him out for a crime?

    In addition to seeing this deposition, I would be interested to see the text of the sting. Was the sting script consistent with the events described in the deposition.

    I don’t think the landscaper made this up from scratch and there is some basis in reality in these statements. Unless TMH talks, or writes a book, giving her side of the story, there will always be doubt about her intent in this matter. Was she serious? Was it a joke? Was she suffering form PPD at the time?

  38. GraceintheHills says:

    9.Essay Kaye says:
    December 9, 2013 at 11:53 am

    Essay Kaye says, “RS went under oath – did not take the 5th – for his deposition. The judge will be able to read the transcript of the deposition and conclude whether KH’s attorneys “opened the door” by venturing into prohibited areas of questioning pursuant to the Court’s previous ruling. I wonder if making public the entrie deposition would benefit TH’s case or just do more harm?”

    Blink says, “He would not be eligible to take the 5th essay- he was granted criminal immunity.”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Hi Blink, he was granted criminal immunity from being prosecuted for what?

    Queen for a day at a minimum for his testimony before the gj. So he was granted immunity for everything in scope that day- subject to statute.

    As is about to come out, RSE did decline to respond to questions during his deposition but did not plead the 5th. They will fall under protected active investigative status, which would still potentially be in play now if he has no fear of prosecution which the immunity would relieve.

    B

  39. Rose says:

    updated after only 3 hours.
    couldn’t be the sting, as it was a 15 min mtg
    “According to court papers filed Friday, when Terri Horman’s lawyers asked Sanchez about a second meeting months later between he and Terri Horman, he refused to answer whether or not Terri Horman had set up that subsequent brief meeting. Sanchez’s lawyer instructed him not to answer that question

    It’s unclear from court documents whether Terri Horman’s lawyers are referring to a sting operation that law enforcement unsuccessfully launched, using Sanchez, following Kyron’s disappearance.

    Terri Horman’s lawyers contend had Sanchez been allowed to talk about his last meeting with Terri Horman – it “would prove Mother’s innocence as to the numerous inaccurate allegations made by Sanchez and Father,” Bunch wrote.”
    Looks like Sanchez had his own criminal attorney at the depo.
    As he should.
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/landscaper_says_terri_horman_w.html

  40. RedRose says:

    I guess I still don’t see how this whole MFH thing relates to anything being done to Kyron by stepmom and lunch pal. It has to do with Kaine (if it happened as R says), in which case Terri would get to keep Kyron AND the baby.

    What exactly is the motive? Who would be then responsible for Kyron’s disappearance – stepmom, or lunch pal?

    I think I also wondered previously (even if a SZ did it), if Kyron being taken has more to do with Kaine than with TMH?? Makes sense if he might have been dealing steroids or other ‘products’.

    By the way, if TMH wanted to “get rid of” Kaine, why didn’t she just file for divorce? She would have had a good reason if he had a honey on the side, right?

    By the way, why didn’t Anna Canzano ask Rudy where his wife and two children are? It’s another question people are asking; everyone, it seems, except someone who might be able to get an answer.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    @Rose says: December 9, 2013 at 1:41 am
    @RedRose. The abduction of Kyron cannot be tied to Stepmother, therefore the abduction isn’t relevant to custody & visitation wrt a half-sib. However, custody & visitation is reasonably impacted when mother plots death of father in child’s presence.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    @grasshopper says: December 9, 2013 at 2:47 am

    http://www.katu.com/news/local/Terri-Hormans-lawyers-ask-for-emergency-hearing-234981351.html

    “….they argue. “The Sanchez testimony establishes a motive surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.”

    RedRose, I am catching you not reading responses to your posts again, lol.
    B

  41. RedRose says:

    sounds like a big wind-storm just waiting to ‘fess all to a “plant disguised as a fellow perp” on the Inside??

    Without naming any names and, in addition to watching too much TV, it’s hard to give ANY pedo the benefit of the doubt….

    Is the reason why one “can’t say” having to do with getting more proof for an airtight case?

    @Amys Sister says:December 9, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    I am saying SZ does not match RSE description or physical characteristics generally, no.
    B
    ______

    Just guessing, here. Slender white male. Maybe lighter colored or little hair.

    ****

  42. RedRose says:

    Oops, sorry, Blink. I passed “speed reading” so fast in school that I forgot to apply it. LOL. Guess I’ll go back and “review”.

    @RedRose says: December 9, 2013 at 3:29 pm
    Blink: RedRose, I am catching you not reading responses to your posts again, lol.
    B

  43. Rose says:

    geez this writing is having serial updates, with at least 1 intervening’s existance masked.
    First update was about 12:30, 3 hours after story. Now it’s updated again at 1:50.
    How can reporters perpetually evolve their original story, obliterating
    the first two versions. Maybe every OLive News story should just be headed “Draft.”
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/landscaper_says_terri_horman_w.html

  44. grasshopper says:

    vw says,
    Maxine has article now on both. Doesn’t link docs however. I hear the courthouse, city hall are lights-out today, but might go later this week.

    GH…did you go Friday?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I did go friday. engel’sdoc not there, not in database. data base pages are beginning of this pdf
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/divorce%20doc%20late%20november.pdf

  45. grasshopper says:

    link now up on max’s article
    BunchofHouzes response

    http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/Emergency%20Hearing%20Motion.pdf

  46. erose says:

    Mom3.0, If LE had to *find* RSE, perhaps through the 911 call as you suggest, then he was in the position of explaining the nature of his relationship with the Hormans. Seems Blink is saying that TH is the one that alerted LE to RSE when asked about gardeners and subsequently landscapers.

    To believe him without corroboration is reckless especially when the consequence was breaking up a family. If he came forward to LE on his own and told a story without corroboration I might be more inclined to believe him, but they sought him out, after TH pointed him out.

    Whatever RSE’s relationship was with the Hormans did not end well. TH claimed it was KH who wanted him fired. Was that because she was having sex with him, or he didn’t want to pay the blackberry bush bill? TH called 911 after he lunged at her with baby in arms, was that because he lost out on a contract, or the fringes. TH also turned in KH’s steroid supplier. Where did KH get his steroids? Some people in the area got their steroids from their landscaper. I consider the relationship may have been more complex, therefore his motivation would be more complex as well.

    Mom3.0 says:
    December 8, 2013 at 6:39 pm

  47. Rose says:

    Darn. At least the 4th (draft) published, updated at 2:04.
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/landscaper_says_terri_horman_w.html
    What is this, the new way to please Legal Dept?

    I admittedly am torn today on time between cases, but kudos to Maxine for finally posting the motion in it’s entirety. She reads here.
    B

  48. Rose says:

    if TMH was worried about the OR presumption to keep step sibs residing together, then she had an extremely dim view of Desiree’s willingness to go after custody of Kyron after the separation as a significant change in circumstance. Just expected the next gf to move in and care for them both. Now we seen a motive for TH disappearing Kyron, and it relies on Desiree presumptively not filing for custody but letting the next gf do her job. We also see a motive for Kaine being the one to send James away from the family home.

  49. cd says:

    RedRose says:
    December 9, 2013 at 3:29 pm
    I guess I still don’t see how this whole MFH thing relates to anything being done to Kyron by stepmom and lunch pal. It has to do with Kaine (if it happened as R says), in which case Terri would get to keep Kyron AND the baby.
    ———-
    IMO
    Since TH has never adopted Kyron if she and Kaine spilt Kaine would keep custody of Kyron. I think custody of Kyron would go to the other bio parent DY if anything happened to Kaine. Since TH wanted DY to take custody of Kyron anyway I doubt that she would try to get keep Kyron.

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