Kyron Horman Missing: New Years Eve Settlement Ends Horman Marriage
Portland, OR- In a surprise court hearing, Judge Henry Kantor signed off on the agreement between Kaine Horman and Terri Moulton Horman to end their marriage this afternoon.
Details of the agreement have not been released publicly, but according to KGW, a financial settlement to include child support and a lump payment to Terri Horman has been reached.
In what can only be described as a bitter family court feud- the divorce matter was last in court on December 16th to decide if the Horman landscaper, Rodolfo Sanchez Estrada -who alleges Terri Horman tried to hire him to murder Kaine Horman at a lunch meeting – would testify.
Judge Kantor has not yet filed an order from that hearing but Attorneys for Terri Horman were granted a continuance from the pending temporary custody motion scheduled for December 19th and 20th.
BOC Associate Editor Tarin Kenley contributed to this report.
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That’s just it Lizzy. This is supposed to be TH’s well thought out plan. Either major backfire, or a well thought out double reverse, or someone struck this family knowing a lot of finger pointing would keep the heat off of them. JMO.
lizzy says:
January 4, 2014 at 4:19 pm
What bothers me about the whole situation is that only one theory has ever been explored and it seems a dead end. What will it take for LE to get their focus off of TH (however briefly) and try to consider all possibilities. Maybe she was involved, but if she was, she did not act alone, so who was this other person who helped her, how did they accomplish this at a school, why would they help her, and what did they do with Kyron? Where. Is. He.
James escaped to the Military, don’t imagine he has many options for “family time” now, who knows where he’s stationed, anyone?
Not public SuzieQ- I do know that he is in active service though.
B
Someone said something about the psych evaluator being criticized by name in an appeal. Does anyone know the case? Does he have a reputation for as being one of those evaluators who sees pathology in everything or for writing very one-sided reports? We should try to uncover everything we can about him.
@SuzieQ
J is in the states and in frequent contact with his mother with already 2 promotions according to my source
“Aimee” @ OLive said originally she’d find out what were the pending crim charges against him.
Has Mr Engel, who Submitted the Ltd Stipulation,
refused to comment to OLive reporter Aimee on her Stip question?
No idea. I can only say that I have contacted both sides and not received a response.
B
lizzy says:
January 4, 2014 at 4:19 pm
A little off-topic, but a question keeps nagging at the back of my mind:
Doesn’t James get to see his little sister? If so, how have they managed the ruse that Terri doesn’t exist? If not, how are they justifying the complete severing of sibling ties?
@Rose, thanks for the heads-up on the comments on the previous thread.
Does not and has not since June 2010.
B
——-
Amys Sister says:
January 4, 2014 at 7:01 pm
lizzy says:
January 4, 2014 at 4:19 pm
___
Great question lizzy.
Oh boy, Kaine can’t deny his way out of this one.
WTF is wrong with him? I wonder if James has tried?
******************************************************
Thanks for the question Lizzy- have we seen evidence that kaine perpetrated a ruse that TH didnt exist? It seems it may be that for the first years he may not have had to say anything…what could he have said to a toddler about the circumstances? IDk I guess we will soon find out if he did in fact tell kitty her mom was dead….
I dont think his lawyers would have advised him to do that though…so if he did he may have to own up to that on his own since LE I dont think would admit to that convo……
Amyssister why would you say Kaine cant deny his way out of this one?
Deny his way out of what? sorry im not following
Why would you ask WTF is wrong with him? wrong to what? deny visitation of siblings, to not ask for it ?
e
it seems that in Oregon , a stepparent has rights and could in fact ask and be granted legal custody of a minor stepchild ..
BUT inorder to do so a Stepparent:
” must demonstrate a “child-parent relationship.” A “child-parent relationship” is a relationship within the preceding six months in which the stepparent has had physical custody of the child (or resided in the same household) and also provided necessities such as food and shelter on a day-to-day basis. ”
end snip
could this be the answer to why james moved out in Feb or March? IDK
and kaine as a stepparent under ordinary circumstances could have asked for just visitation rights to james -
snipped:
Stepparents seeking only visitation rights (not custody) can petition the court through ORS 109.119(1) and need only demonstrate that they enjoy an “on-going relationship” with the child.
BUT
KIM
snipped-
“The catch is that the court applies a so-called “rebuttable presumption” that the legal parent “acts in the best interests of the child.” This means that the legal parent can cut all ties between the child and the stepparent and the court will assume that such action is in the child’s best interest. ”
end snip
For kaine to have a fighting chance at visitation of james he would have had to:
” rebut the presumption, the stepparent must show, by at least a preponderance of the evidence, that the legal parent is not acting in the child’s best interest.”
end snip- http://stahancyk.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/stepparents%E2%80%99-rights-upon-divorce/
How could kaine rebute the presumption when james was removed from the family home by a mother who by all accounts was doing so for childs best interest? Kaine himself stated that it was Terris decision and right as his mom- and that terri stated that his grades and demeanor improved….if she invoked the 5th in this matter also it is Kaine who would have had to overcome the presumption of “the best interests” of the legal parent- and until June 5th when was the last time kaine saw james, spoke with james? if it was infrequent at best due to school and work…
and Kaines respect/unwillingness to step on TH decision making regarding her own son…then how could he have demonstrated – that he enjoyed an “on-going relationship” with James? and why would he want to subject james to going against his mom- then especially so soon after losing his home, his school, his friends, then sadly his little brother …
As for Kittys and james rights to an ongoing relationship-
James could have asked and petitioned the court for visitation- if he wanted it- his legal parents or grandparents could have done this for him…
Amys sister you asked if James asked (for visitation)…that is where we should begin did he ask and
If james asked then it is his legal parents and grandparents who should have facilitated this for both James and Kitty—
KIM if kaine let James see Kitty or met with james absent a court order how would that have looked?
Even if done legally , there are those who would assume that kaine was working to get james on his side….to brain wash him…
IIRC, Rose recently wrote that (pp) one of the major reasons that TH did not ask for a GAL IHO is because she would have had to pay for it….
Could this not be part of kaines or terris reasoning IRT this issue as well?
well I say with all the expenses that KH and TH faced has … with all that was on their minds the huge legal battles ahead of them…how can we not see that to bring on this added legal Battle and expense would have been a huge endeavor to undertake and sadly would have just aided in drawing out the divorce case and all the rest…(KIM for kaine the added expense parenting/paying for Kitty on his own
So I think this again was not solely of kaines doing or undoing-
How could KH have set this up without either/both James legal parents approval? Without discussing with james his feelings?
-
he would have been presuming alot … as we know Desirees lawyers wished to depo James, perhaps james would have said as much then- IDK
James as an adult sibling he could now petition the court regardless of where terri or kaine or his father stand on the issue-
Perhaps he will-
Still thru out the years someone should have petitioned the court on minor james behalf…
KIM anything done solely by kaine, could have been twisted to seem like KH was overstepping bounds with his presumptions just to further punish TH and it could have seemed as if he were trying yet another avenue of court appearances inorder to “force TH to talk”
So why ask WTH is wrong with kaine?
With the link, it seems TH could have been looking ahead to divorce and put matters on track w/ james removal inorder to deny kaine the rights afforded to him as a stepparent.
It seems Kaine was preoccupied with his sons disappearance, his wifes seeming MFHP, and possible involvement in sons disappearance- Still he and james both expressed a fondness for eachother, a wish to see one another- yet we seem to think Kaine just didnt care about him and his relationship to Kitty?
Im just not following…
Kaine was tackling all these issues on top of being a newly single full time working parent to a baby girl.. we think given all this that “he cant deny his way out of this?” what, that he must have willfully set out to severe James and Kittys sibling relationship? a relationship- something to which terri had damaged & somewhat severed in the months before??
terri was under these same stresses- true- and she nor james legal father asked for sibling visitation
james hasnt done so yet either
Why is it that we seem to be holding Kaine accountable for the lack of relationship between the siblings?
-
kittys and james relationship suffered – I agree and it is a crying shame- but i think the “blame” for this is not squarely on kaines shoulders alone….
Respectfully submitted
AJMO Peace
Rose (he cited the case) and I posted some reviews on the last thread. Just pretend you plan on seeing him as a doctor and start googling his name. ‘Tis not good, IMO.
Jae Joi says:
January 4, 2014 at 8:50 pm
God Bless This Kid!
grasshopper says:
January 4, 2014 at 10:17 pm
@SuzieQ
J is in the states and in frequent contact with his mother with already 2 promotions according to my source
Correction: (Rose, she cited the case)
If no one will go one the record to correct this, then it seems it is correct as stated. Make sense?
Rose says:
January 4, 2014 at 11:38 pm
“Aimee” @ OLive said originally she’d find out what were the pending crim charges against him.
Has Mr Engel, who Submitted the Ltd Stipulation,
refused to comment to OLive reporter Aimee on her Stip question?
No idea. I can only say that I have contacted both sides and not received a response.
B
In my mind, this is not a typo.
B
@Mom3.0, Initially when James was under age, you have a point, but James is an adult now and none of that would be required.
P.S. KH is being held accountable because he has been calling the shots wrt BabyK.
Mom3.0 says:
January 5, 2014 at 12:30 am
Why is it that we seem to be holding Kaine accountable for the lack of relationship between the siblings?
————–
IMO
Because Kaine does not want James around answering any questions babaK may have about her mother or potentially undoing any falsehoods Kaine represented to babyK about TH. What if K has told babyK her mother is dead or left the country.
Denying TH any kind of visitation supervised or otherwise is a big mistake Kaine is making that I think he will live to regret.
Hi Mom 3.0. Some of this is in response to you but much of it is just expounding on why I sais WTF is wrong with Kaine.
James and Kitty are siblings. James was a big brother to Kyron. Terri doesn’t even really factor in to those two things, nor does Kaine. James has been of age and even when he wasn’t I can’t imagine it would have been too difficult for Kaine to call James and ask if he would like to see his sister, IMO it would have been the right thing to do. James didn’t have anything to do with the Horman family breakdown. If Terri knows more than she’s sharing, James didn’t have anything to do with that, either.
Allowing visits without a court order doesn’t seem so problematic to me. I think it might actually paint Kaine in a more positive light if he were to have fostered it.
I imagine James moving out became just a blip on the radar after Kyron disappeared. Why not have compassion for James and encourage a relationship between him and his little sister if James wants it?
It is certainly possible James just didn’t have the time or inclination to want to spend time with Kitty or maybe having to go through Kaine to do it in light of what’s going on with his mom was a barrier James couldn’t overcome, in which case that nulls this being Kaine’s issue and I am wrong for jumping to that conclusion. I just don’t have the sense James wouldn’t want to see his kid sister so, JMO, it’s possible, even likely Kaine never encouraged that relationship.
It just adds to the pile that Kaine was trying to wipe any part of Kitty’s mother from her life.
I don’t think any of the adults are a victim in this whole mess. I do think Kyron, Kitty, and James all were and still are. We probably haven’t even heard the worst of it and it’s always a sad thing when kids are drug along the hateful and vindictive path of lies, broken relationships, and hurtful behavior because the adults in their lives didn’t protect them from it.
All just my opinion, Mom 3.0.
Notice your noodles are getting thicker.
I don’t think the DA can get an indictment from the GJ, therefore I think they are used/are using the civil cases to fish for info to further their investigation, which is why Houze is no doubt instructing TH to plead the 5th on everything.
According to DDS, they tried to get her to participate in a sting, very recently. That alone shows me the state of their case. LE has tried so many entrapment type stings and the bios have slandered her so badly, I wonder if it could be successfully argued that she could not possibly get a fair trial.
(You know this.)
NelMel says:
January 4, 2014 at 5:49 pm
(nelmel hurls some freshly boiled linguini at the wall…)
Why do some of you think that the DA is attempting to “try and convict” TMH in a divorce/custody courtroom instead of via arrest, arraignment, charges, trial by jury in a criminal case?
“In my mind, this is not a typo.
B”
——————-
Blink,
Wow, so does that mean you are now more comfortable with us speculating what this is referring to?
Because if this is NOT a typo, obviously criminal charges could refer to a vast number of things. Furthermore, charges with the “s” makes me wonder if there are several charges pending. If charges are pending, is it normal that this has not been released publicly?
I’m really intrigued.
All JMO
No, sorry. I do continue to request confirmation, although my opinion, which could be wrong- is that it is not. With a Judge new to Family Court, who has “sat” on the civil tort as well, who is red lining copy and signing as a final order- I have no confidence outside of my opinion this is not a fat snafu.
Previous reference possibilities continue to apply
B
Does anyone know if a psy eval is going to done to determine if babyK has suffered any physiological damage due to separation from her mother at an early age. I think that that really needs to be done in this case to determine custody and visitation.
I think that the hater crater sites have no interest in babaK’s welfare and even actually resent her because
1. She looks like TH
2. She is TH’s child who is alive and not missing and Kyron is gone.
3. She may someday have a relationship with her mom which will probably inspire hatred on their part
How could anyone post on the Hello Kitty website if they cared anything for the further welfare of this child.
It is so disgusting to me. They say we love KY and advocate for children then they post their hateful messages on this Hello Kitty we site what a bunch of hypocrites.
cd says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
January 5, 2014 at 4:18 am
How could anyone post on the Hello Kitty website if they cared anything for the further welfare of this child.
It is so disgusting to me. They say we love KY and advocate for children then they post their hateful messages on this Hello Kitty we site what a bunch of hypocrites.
——————-
Correction I meant the “Goodbye Kitty” Facebook
I do however see this Facebook page as a page that taunts a 5 year old child about the circumstances of her missing mother.
jae joi.
Look for my yellow about 5-10 pp back on last thread.
I posted the url to that case at least 2ce. I found it by googling Dr’s nane.
Twas in a footnote onthe first ruling of the OR Appeals Court of a case starting with an L.
The Appeals Court criticism was the Trial Court relied too heavily on his opinion and said his opinion was flawed.
he had failed to follow the law.
The Appeals Court said he did not evaluate father as to his ability to father, but rather Vien erroneously just compared
him to deceased mother’s parents. Altho the child was no closer to them than to father, Vien liked them better (father
lived in a mobile home etc). Appeals court, saying it did so rarely, put de novo factors down in father’s favor, ie references Vien never looked in to. Footnote was at the end of the opinion.
In my opinion Vien’s chief claim to fame seems to be as McKnight’s bff, for over a decade, on her pet legislative committees.
@Blink. I HOPE it is not, and wish you well learning the answer.
I was being snarky about OLive’s persistance and ability to get critical
clarifications, with all of the media’s private
friendly relations with KH & at the Courthouse. I Thought katu, OLive & kgw
had special info-providing relationships with Courthouse & DA personnel, Kaine, Rackner
and so on. And they’re not using them on something like this? Max relies on Aimee
to put in a phone call?
Yep. Although I will say that OL is really the only outlet besides us to catch the issue that I am aware of.
B
@erose. If Engel goes on record, he admits to a stip submission error, creating liability.
Ditto for Bunch in approving. Only person to address this would be Bunch, in Court again.
If it was an error, it’s malpractice. What lawyer will admit that publically? To me silence indicates error.
If it was correct, imo there would be a reply saying something like, “The Ltd Stipulation speaks for itself.”
In theory I agree, but in the event either side offered their copy publicly, and that was the case, they would be obliged to address an error, imo.
I have to believe however, it would result in an immediate amended copy and request of the court. As you point out, such an egregious error is not going to sit with an effective immediately (upon sig) order.
And then- confirming the verbiage is an announcement. Who is announcing pending criminal charges and origin in this case- which the court has found all LE interactions and activity are off limits ( SIC) ?
Add the possibility that said charges are part of a Federal case, and nobody is going to utter a syllable, imo.
Or. Typo by a para or well intentioned law clerk and everyone was on the Ryan Seacrest guest list and had to make flights.
B
One watershed wrt the Evaluator will be if he undertakes a lengthy oral independant interview of James wrt Mother’s parenting of all 3 children. If he does not do it, & cite having done so in his report, his report will be another one of these toilet paper documents imo.
http://caselaw.findlaw (dot) com/or-court-of-appeals/1377877.html
the case. Remove the (dot) and put in a period, making it read as a normal url.
Otherwise it was not posting but going poof.
The followup OR Appeals Court review of legislative changes
http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/docs/S50551.htm
my cursory lay review is the OR legislature has passed new custody statutes since Troxel, one analyzed here was passed in 2001 changing the outcome of this case retroactively, AFTER the Legislature’s relevant Legislative Committee proposes doing so & supplies statutory language. For over a decade McKnight & Bien have served on such Legislative Committees. So, say, if a trial judge or a psychologist, or any other profession, on such a legislative committee didn’t like Troxel, or didn’t like the Appeals Court’s custody findings overturning the trial court, or had strong values wrt where one comes down on a subjective best interests (which means a psychologis & trial judge can do as they please), versus a birth parent’s supervening right provided that parent is fit and the child is well attached to the parent, then that leg. comm. trial judge or psych coukd bring their issue to the committee and get legislation limiting Troxel & effectively freeing their hand from OR Appeals Court precedent. Imo that’s been happening wrt custody statutes since some Mult Cty professionals have had fingers in legislative committee work which has passed in the legislature since Troxel.
Someone who knows Appeals Court opinions fine print has been coaching Rackner on strategy. (is she friendly with McKnight?) See for example this in the url above on the impact of 3 years of rearing by a psychological mother (aka girlfriend of Kaine) versus a birth mother.
“….reviewed a record that now is three years old. The children certainly have changed during that time, and the lives of father and grandparents also may have changed in ways that, if part of the record, would cause us to view some of the issues in this case differently than we have. But that unfortunate temporal handicap of appellate decisionmaking….”
It is possible McKnight did not assign this custody hearing to a Family Court Judge because she offered strategic counsel to Rackner early on (conflict of interest). However, it is interesting her longtime collaborator on Legis Comms in my opinion sharing similar “change the statutes” values for over a decade was the Evaluating psychologist chosen.
I personally have strong beliefs he will recommend babyk remain 100% in the custody of father & psychological mother (I also bet he marries before the Eval is finalized). I believe she will be given limited visitation, perhaps. So, she might as well settle once Vien’s report issues. I believe Vien will endorse psychological mommie due to the passage of 3 years, home ownership, maintenance in same community, income disparity, adequate references, and so on.
Imo Vien would do this even if James attested Mother was tops with all 3 kids & Kaine was emotionally even physically abusive to mother & tempermental with kids.
Vien imo would just find a way to explain James away.
What would I do?
if investigation panned out (references, etc) I’d reunite babyk with mother asap, as 6 more months is too long in the life of a child, with sliding escalating visits to overnight, & by June have her residing with Mother fulltime in Moulton home, with 2 weekends monthly with Dad.
Blink, the girlfriend, if she is a live-in today, is highly relevant now.
If true, Yes, but don’t you think it would be part of the record, pleadings if it was something the petitioner knew would be a part of the award or eval?
It makes everything Engel said disengenuous at best, and bad faith at worst.
ie: she does not know who she is.
vs
In TMH absence ( by choice) Baby K has maternally bonded with a significant other , blah blah.
It is a stronger argument then LE said to tell her Her mother is dead, no?
B
btw. if cps had been involved originally, this case would have run thru Family Court, with home studies on both parents. Unless evidence cropped up to indicate need (ie prior mental health treatment or hosp admission), psychologicals are not typical. In this case, without DA having evidence TM presented any risk, my bet is home studies would’ve indicated babyk’s placement with mother, visitation to father in a supervised setting initially lest he abscond, with periodic Court reviews. Imo Houze looked at this case solely with criminal defense lens, not custody lens, or he’d have called cps to eval and have attacked the RO/custody matter as soon as possible–early 2011. The unmerited cut off from mother by philandering father could easily be seen as extreme emotional abuse.
see url above in O’Donnell 2
“”(1) Any person, including but not limited to a related or nonrelated foster parent, stepparent or relative by blood or marriage who has established emotional ties creating a child-parent relationship or an ongoing personal relationship with a child, or any legal grandparent may petition or file a motion for intervention with the court having jurisdiction over the custody, placement, guardianship or wardship of that child, or if no such proceedings are pending, may petition the court for the county in which the minor child resides for an order providing for relief under subsection (3) of this section.
“* * * * *
“(3)(a) If the court determines that a child-parent relationship exists and if the court determines by a preponderance of the evidence that custody, guardianship, right of visitation, or other generally recognized right of a parent or person in loco parentis, is appropriate in the case, the court shall grant such custody, guardianship, right of visitation or other right to the person, if to do so is in the best interest of the child. The court may determine temporary custody of the child or temporary visitation rights under this paragraph pending a final order.”
@Blink. If there was a girlfriend who predated the separation (therefore she made a conscious choice), who has resided since with KH and is now a psychological mother, that info is highly relevant per OR case law imo.
——
KH has said they’d had talk of divorce, altho he thought things were more positive.
If so, he would have known in the event of divorce, if Desiree filed for a custody change (a big if as to whether she would), he would lose with TM testifying for DY. (Why were 2 women so apparently frightened of him?) So Kyron would reside in the home of a policeman & feel safe. Isn’t there a possibility, Blink, Kaine would fear that byproduct of a Terri divorce wrt Kyron? Here I am thinking of Kristian recounting family history.!
According to KH, he did not know of these independent conversations between TMH and DY. I actually believe that. If one believes James was “sent away” and I do, by Kaine, then I would submit Kaine was more concerned about the “step-sibling” issue as it relates to custody than TMH.
I mean really- if TMH was so concerned due to that- why in the world would she allow James to relocate with her parents a few months prior. Wouldn’t that be a firm defense to the motive? Technically- 2 out of 3 of the kids in the home were hers so if that was the issue and she was aware, who is really the strategist here?
B
Apple’s fritzy darn software’s random
” ! ” above, not mine.
and btw NelMel, your kitchen wall
is hopefully easily cleaned tile.
is it possible 1 or more of the Detectives on Kyron’s case knew
KH from the local gym prior to this abduction?
Imo should’ve questioned in K’s depo.
Is it possible that KH knows and knew a relative of Bobby O’Donnell, or say, worked down the hall from them?
B
If Terri & Kaine had discussed divorce previously, interesting thought about Kaine perhaps wanting custody of James as well as his own children. History repeating itself?
http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-12134-troubled_family.html
What hasn’t been made public is the fact that, a month after filing for divorce, Young sought a restraining order against Kaine Horman, Kyron’s dad.
At the time, she had a 7-year-old son from a previous marriage. In court documents, Young said she feared Kaine Horman would “remove our children from their residence.” It’s unclear whether the couple was living together at the time. Washington County Circuit Judge Donald Letourneau granted Young’s request, forbidding either her or Kaine Horman from taking the children without the other’s consent.
I will ask everyone their opinion…(peeling old dried spaghetti off the south wall)…
What do some of you suspect is “the evidence” that DY has indicated exists about TMH and in Kyron’s case? From her POV, what she has decided is “evidence,” what is it?
Aside from emails we will probably never see.
She has indicated that “we found things” when referring to her searches. She has never indicated what those “things” are and there is no indication that LE has those “things.”
Physical evidence of Kyron and Terri being someplace on June 10, 2010, after Kyron was taken from the school?
Physical evidence of Kyron and another party, not Terri, after Kyron’s removal from the school?
Witnesses that have told DY things that have not been revealed?
LE has NEVER commented on what they learned in the length of this case’s investigation, now reaching years in duration. Does this mean they are sitting on a ticking time bomb, or, that they literally have nothing?
I feel like Robert DeNiro in “Raging Bull” when he keeps repeating “I heard some things….”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLejK4-Ma8g
what the fed grand jury has been up to recently
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/11/post_382.html
RE erose says:
January 5, 2014 at 1:29 am
@Mom3.0, Initially when James was under age, you have a point, but James is an adult now and none of that would be required.
erose says:
January 5, 2014 at 1:42 am
P.S. KH is being held accountable because he has been calling the shots wrt BabyK.
****************************************************************
erose, hello
As I stated:
kittys and james relationship suffered – I agree and it is a crying shame- but i think the “blame” for this is not squarely on kaines shoulders alone….
So erose am i understanding you correctly? you think Kaine should solely be held accountable for james’ and kittys lack of relationship despite all info provided in my post?
Yes James is an adult now- and James was a minor them whose legal parents or grandparents could have stepped up to help him petition the court… yet Kaine still should shoulder all accountability because he has been “calling the shots” for babyk?
and why was he allowed to call the shots for baby k, because terri did not fight the RO nor did she move forward with her claim to visitation and custody.
Again I say:
kitty and james relationship suffered – I agree and it is a crying shame- but i think the “blame” for this is not squarely on kaines shoulders alone….
AJMO
What date did TMH send James to live with her parents?
What date did TMH have “The Lunch” re the supposed MFH?
Did these happen close to the same time?
Also, (Different subject)MOO, WHO would meet in a public restaurant to discuss MFH, and still discuss it with someone she barely knew, who could barely speak English?
@Rose says:January 5, 2014 at 8:43 am
Re Blink’s reply:
I mean really- if TMH was so concerned due to that- why in the world would she allow James to relocate with her parents a few months prior.
B
RE Rose says:
January 5, 2014 at 8:43 am
@Blink. If there was a girlfriend who predated the separation (therefore she made a conscious choice), who has resided since with KH and is now a psychological mother, that info is highly relevant per OR case law imo.
——
KH has said they’d had talk of divorce, altho he thought things were more positive.
If so, he would have known in the event of divorce, if Desiree filed for a custody change (a big if as to whether she would), he would lose with TM testifying for DY. (Why were 2 women so apparently frightened of him?) So Kyron would reside in the home of a policeman & feel safe. Isn’t there a possibility, Blink, Kaine would fear that byproduct of a Terri divorce wrt Kyron? Here I am thinking of Kristian recounting family history.!
**************************************************************
“that info is highly relevant per OR case law imo.”
Rose what Oregon case law are you referring to, please?
also it seems to me that desiree was not seemingly afraid of kaine- she willingly gave custody of her toddler son to kaine- they had an amicable custody agreement
and given terris choice to remain silent I think it unlikely ( esp. if they were still married and not divorcing) that terri would have testified for Desiree-
I also think bringing up a scenario where Kyron was poss. being molested by a family member and kaine would have known this and his fear would have been that Kyron residing with a police man Tony would be risky…is nonsensical-
By all accounts- even james’ -Kaine was a good dad – why would a good dad who had custody fear Tony in a divorce custody issue…if this were even remotely the case kaine would ha d feared Tony all along and would have never been open to more visiting time with Desiree and Tony…
yet Kyron was visiting them and had been even on over night visits-and it seems weekly visits were coming with summer break…
i do not think Kaine would have protected a family member over protecting his son. No way kaine knew of any abuse and wanted to keep Ky away from tony
AJMO Peace
I’m curious about RSE depo with regards to how people here feel about it.
RSE and TH relationship went beyond Landscaper/employer. There was a reported affair, sexting, the blow-up scene in front of RSE wife, and 911 calls. It seems to me that there might be motivation on RSE part to lie. Lie for payback reasons? Lie to protect himself?
Here is my poll (thanks in advance to anyone willing to participate)
1. Do you tend to believe part of RSE Depo (such as that Terri told RSE she was afraid KH would take Child K away from her) but not other parts (such as Terri tried to arrange for RSE to Kill Kaine).
2. Do you believe that RSE understood the MFH conversation perfectly and is being honest to the best of his ability?
3. Do you believe that RSE believes his Depo to be honest, however, his language barrier caused him to misunderstand Terri?
4. Do you believe that RSE is lying, and if so why?
Thanks! I think that RSE/TH relationship was entwined enough to merit the necessity of cross-examination if RSE Depo allowed.
RedRose says, Also, (Different subject)MOO, WHO would meet in a public restaurant to discuss MFH, and still discuss it with someone she barely knew, who could barely speak English?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
exactly! why meet in a restaurant to confide in a person you barely know about your troubled marriage and that he might take kiara, who can barely speak englis, and where you could easily be overheard especially needing to repeat and explain your meaning, when you have a perfectly good isolated house where he has come before to work and even if someone saw him they’d think nothing of it. or if she thought K had bugged th house, stand outside and talk. and with the extremely flakey plan she allegedly suggested (make it look like a muggig) wouldn’t there be an awfully good chance that RSE would be caught and immediately squeal on her, particularly if K wasn’t really carrying $10,000.
@RedRose says:
January 5, 2014 at 3:58 pm
Conflicting reports as to when and why, read my post back here (#26) which gives the links. It’s a long one, so don’t want to bog us down by reposting. However, at least two of the timings would, I think, be somewhere around the time of RSE alleged lunch date:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/06/11/kyron-horman-missing-case-breaking-news-remains-believed-to-be-human-located-off-sauvie-island/comment-page-23/
erose says:
January 5, 2014 at 1:26 am
If no one will go one the record to correct this, then it seems it is correct as stated. Make sense?
Rose says:
January 4, 2014 at 11:38 pm
“Aimee” @ OLive said originally she’d find out what were the pending crim charges against him.
Has Mr Engel, who Submitted the Ltd Stipulation,
refused to comment to OLive reporter Aimee on her Stip question?
No idea. I can only say that I have contacted both sides and not received a response.
B
In my mind, this is not a typo.
B
**********
You know ordinarily I would agree with you erose, but in this case, Kyron’s case, someone admitting they made a mistake would be an anomaly wouldn’t it?
(Being snarky, yes. LOL)
What pending criminal charge against Kaine could give rise to a civil tort claim by Terri?
Not steroid purchases or sales. Some sort of swindle involving
money in her name, ie the settlement, under his management??.
Cashing child support checks from James’ father when James did not live there
& visitation was prevented??
Could be simple assault, against her, but she’s not credible & DA wouldn’t file it.
All I can think of is some injury to either child or other crime against one of them when
while they were minors.
Obstruction?
Use of marital funds for any reason, to include criminal defense fees that might have been excluded from agreement? The short answer is anything criminal, lol.
The statute of limitations for any assaults (alleged) would be expired, realizing that there can be aggs, etc. If the pending criminals is true, I stand by my assertion it is related to the purchase and usage of roids, in some manner.
I can be wrong, lol.
B
In this case, imo “mistakes” have never been made (except by 2 judges).
Statements & behaviors, whether veracious or duplicitous and deceptive, were both planned & deliberate
in my opinion.
be very interesting if KH continued depositing Ecker’s child support in his bank account after the RO.
@3.0 wrt
“Rose what Oregon case law are you referring to, please?”
I have posted links multiple times to two Appeals Court
findings discussing unrelated & related psychological parents
on the prior thread & this thread.
I also posted a url to an Oregon attorney’s masterly overview summarizing all the cases since Troxel citing cases with brief summaries. You would have to read my past posts & go to the urls & read.
I found all I posted urls to with a minute or so of googling .
@3.0. the only way Terri could have a civil tort claim against Kaine relating to her minor son would be if Kaine (not Kristian, not Tony) injured one of her children and even then imo the claim would run to the child, not mother. The injury or tort could take many forms. I in no way suggested molestation by Kristian or Tony.
3.0. said “I also think bringing up a scenario where Kyron was poss. being molested by a family member and kaine would have known this and his fear would have been that Kyron residing with a police man Tony would be risky…is nonsensical”
I did not say this. A hypothetical tort (injury) would be perpetrated by the criminally charged,
and there are plenty of statutes any citizen may violate –
as you know, if you read my posts–we all scroll, so no hard feelings–
it is my belief charges pend against her.
I do suggest though, 3.0, in my opinion both Kristian & Chrisopher & the prior generations’ apparent divorce management style of other-parent “cut offs,” are examples of a family system with troubling treatment of progeny.
To the extent that I know it, I would agree with this, but I could not say it was not more normal than not in a general sense. Not referring to the abuse issue of course.
B
I think LE has made some huge mistakes in this case. Huge. Starting from the very beginning. JMO
The part of our beloved Malty will be played by T.Ruth today
LOL
B
Happy New Year…B, I’ve been in your neck of the woods this holiday. We were in Boston & NYC for the holidays, actually spent two weeks there. I did spend a day in New Jersey too and had to comment on the view of the new Freedom Tower from that side of the Hudson River. When in the city it is huge and Beautiful, but from New Jersey, it is absolutely breathtaking and a huge symbolic Beacon of light in the skyline.
I pray 2014 brings Kyron home.
I’ve read all the comments in this thread and just wanted to put in my opinion on the him vs her…. surprisingly, I believe it’s him, wow wow wow!!!! Wondering what that means but hopeful it progresses Kyron’s case.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.