Dr. Phil Show Hosts Missing Portland Child Kyron Horman’s Step Mom Terri Horman Over Two Episodes
I have been covering this case since Kyron Horman disappeared from Skyline School in June, 2010. Like most missing persons cases I have covered in the past, I am of the strong opinion that best efforts at the truth are the only way to propel investigations that, similarly to Kyron’s, have gone cold for one reason or another. This approach has worked in resolving some of my previous cases. I am proud of that. I remain steadfast to the integrity involved in those and future cases.
Over the past 10 months (or so) I have been developing an updated series on Kyron’s case to include my multiple interviews with Kyron’s step-mom, Terri Horman. Needless to say as she was the subject of at least three simultaneous cases before an Oregon court and remains a person of interest by the agency investigating her sons disappearance, this has been an arduous and sometimes delicate journey. Ms. Horman’s experiences during the ongoing investigation of the disappearance of Kyron Horman are critically important to propelling his case and with great hope- finding the truth about what happened to this cherubic and innocent child. There are dozens of sources, collateral interviews, forensic experts and legal analysts that also contribute to my series and have done so because of their belief that my motivation is to bring to light information and opinions in such a way that would almost “require” a focused review of Kyron’s case and the likely shaking of that proverbial tree everyone talks about.
Set to publish about 6-ish weeks ago I was asked to postpone the first installment of the series, which I did. I subsequently learned Ms. Horman was participating in the Dr. Phil program after she completed taping. Dr. Phils producers were well aware that Ms. Horman had interviewed with me extensively, and anticipated my series would be publishing information that was not known to the public previously in the days prior to her scheduled episode. When Ms. Horman conveyed to me that she feels obligated to speak out about “her son” in any national medium that will have her, I most certainly respected that. I still do.
While Dr. Phil seems like a gregarious fellow for sure, I have zero interest in being associated with his program, nor do I believe his shows content is designed to do any furtherance of investigation or truth. There is much concern (although I have no affiliation to the show whatsoever) that the timing of the publication of my series on the Kyron Horman matter might be interpreted differently or inadvertently contribute to the programs content or audience reactions. Not what I signed on for. A missing 7 year old boy six years running is not a framework for entertaining a target audience. He is not fodder for online social media bully campaigns- yet it occurs.
I will be publishing my series on Kyron’s case at a later date, in it’s entirety with no editing adjustments as a result of any of the appearances on Dr. Phil. I appreciate your patience and your understanding. Feel free to discuss the show below.
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http://www.kvoa.com/story/39096052/n4t-investigators-news-conference-links-cases-of-two-murdered-tucson-children
Holy Bat Sh…You do sometimes get answers.
https://www.wweek.com/news/2018/09/16/multnomah-county-must-now-defend-disgraced-former-sheriff-dan-staton/
Well then. Might be interesting to see stops on the way home for the boxed wine aisle after these meetings LOL
B
I was getting worried regarding the non response.
I understand about the loss of signal in a weather situation. A heavy rain will stop the signals and loss of power will shut down towers even though most have auto-start emergency power for at least 24 hours.
Florence is behaving just as did Harvey by dropping to a tropical storm and sucking water from the coastal areas with heavy,heavy rains.
Maybe Ritchie’s case will bring out something
about how the investigation coverup was handled
by Staton.
essentially, Celis’ abductor was what Blink has always profiled in this case, an opportunistic sexual predator, although imo hers was the disorganized type, not ultra organized like Kyron’s, making his unraveling inevitable. https://www.google.com/amp/s/tucson.com/news/local/photos-the-deaths-of-isabel-celis-and-maribel-gonzales/collection_618fd98e-8dae-11e1-ac59-0019bb2963f4.amp.html#ampf=undefined
he essentially revealed the body location in exchange for two burglary charges being dropped (dumb & gullible too).
while local press disses N Grace & her daddy did it theory, in this case it will be Teri owed an apology & reparations. An advantage with Clements is both bodies were found by confession. There is a big difference between Tucson PD & mcso. The former at least had detectives. One failts Horman’s parents for not insisting jurisdiction be transferred long ago & for being comfortable with the mcso Task Force leadership & composition. Tucson PD was lucky a disorganized unintelligent petty criminal did it.
Rose- you nailed it exactly. At my count, I do believe that this is the 3rd or 4th cold case which included an abduction I am aware of which had the WRONG suspects and the suspect is not known to the victims. The timeline of these cases and LE activity need to be scrutinized heavily. He has an active warrant in Oregon for NOT registering as a sex offender and he makes bond (errors and errors and errors). I will be very curious to learn the nuances of this offenders acts and behavior- and see where they fall as to case and empirical leanings.
Bottom line people- strangers can and do abduct kids for sexually motivated purposes that end in homicide more than anyone is willing to admit. The fact that LE considers that so “rare” is a crutch to investigations anymore, imo.
B
one is instantly reminded of Stepfather opining
under the mantle of “Blue,”
“if not Teri, Who? “
Duh, Blink answered
that by profiling in 2010.
I still say I wonder what we dont know about that was in that recent “school complaints” investigation. I don’t think anyone will disagree with me when I say everyone is of the opinion Kyron left with someone very knowledgeable about the school layout.
B
the sole flaw in this article is it doesn’t say which March 22 he was sprung from prison after a successful appeal from MulCty: https://www.google.com/amp/s/tucson.com/news/local/man-charged-in-killing-of-tucson-girls-committed-cross-country/article_84c61614-6f8a-51dc-9a6f-31eb9504530e.amp.html Was it 2010. One assumes the protection order in 2006 was his wife’s, & his continued focus in & out of Portland predicts he had children. In what school? A sci fair open house woukd be a great way to get close. he seemed to stay away from Oregon after his release, despite a fixation before that. Imo these aren’t his only two vics, and he didn’t start in Tucson, and if he weren’t stupid he’d disclose his other vics to take the death penalty off the table. He was angriest in Portland, so there must be some in Multnomah. Where did he live when there?
and since imo the Multnomah DA (past & present) are also in the stupid camp, at least wrt the abduction & murder of kyron, he’s never gonna wonder what sexual child murders serial opportunistic child sex murderer Clement committed during his lengthy time in Multnomah. And who would the DA send to interview him, someone from mcso? hapless.
Well the first thing they would have to do is either take over the investigation or direct MCSO to even contemplate that possibility and I can tell you first hand there is a zero percent chance those folks will exit the Terri Horman tram car anytime soon.
I do not believe that the MCDA and MCSO are in sync wrt to Kyron’s case, and I know the FBI has made their opinions clear.
I keep waiting to see if RSE ends up in an ICE sting, or some other incident relative to discussing his immigration status and immunity agreement from Underhill. Im pretty sure he had no jurisdiction to even offer that.
B
essentially a serial opportunistic child sex abductor/murderer like
Clements is outside the experience & training of anyone who’s
worked on Kyron’s case from the DA to mcso.
If this is Juan Martinez… lol.
And to your point, that is correct for almost every one of these cases at the local jurisdiction level- most det’s never see a case like this in their career. Its hard to find fault, except to say when a case is cold or in this case, where there is even the potential for the need of profiling resources- they should be required to work with the FBI, imo.
B
“except to say that the FBI in 2017 learned Clements might have information about the death of Celis.”
Tucson attributes cracking the case to the fbi. https://www.google.com/amp/www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-arizona-missing-girls-20180916-story,amp.html
Um, Yeah. Again. Because as much as the FBI is in “turmoil” right now- the BSU and CART are unmatched in their resources, intelligence and investigative stratgegy in similar cases. They just are.
B
darn shame MCSO hired as one of it’s top 3 deputies the retired former FBI employee with motivation to cover up about the 2010 severely flawed investigation which targeted Terri & which he was an active partner to & promoted on live TV cameras in 2010. He is well-positioned to succeed Reese if he retires.
if the fbi is ever called in in Horman, it needs to be the national office, not the local field office which this now-MCSO honcho could dominate & misdirect. stream of consciousness posts over, sorry….
Nah. Too high profile and Balizan is already well aware the FBI agents who worked Ky’s case do not agree with their suspect numero uno.
B
“I keep waiting to see if RSE ends up in an ICE sting, or some other incident relative to discussing his immigration status and immunity agreement from Underhill. Im pretty sure he had no jurisdiction to even offer that.
B”
http://blinkoncrime.com/2016/09/21/dr-phil-show-hosts-missing-portland-child-kyron-hormans-step-mom-terri-horman-over-two-episodes/#comments——
Standing alone, MCDA did not have authority. However DEA and FBI were involved. Local FBI Field Office Dir could easily have gotten a DOJ hack to issue an immunity letter bcz DOJ ultimately enforces immigration laws & doubtless shields many crime witnesses who have immigration problems for same. DOJ probably has a form letter.
———
ICE seems to leave alone the gainfully employed w/ the “right” employers (or patrons) who are not in border or heavily hispanic areas.
Look at that IA Yarrabee. Imo mcso/da are “patrons” of Rudy.
It came from the MCDA’s office, period. I don’t know exactly what it says, I only know in RSE deposition, which as I recall Rackner and Engel tried to have theirs sealed in perpetuity stating he was leaving the country permanently, RSE admitted under oath that he had an immunity letter from the DA stating they would not seek to deport him. To my knowledge, and after speaking with other Immigration resources in the jurisdiction as a hypothetical- the DA has no jurisdiction to charge criminally for immigration violations in the first place- its an entirely Federal matter. If one assumes that the whole thing arises out of Engel’s subpoena (remember, he said he “found him” on his own, called him, told him to get counsel, lol… than one really wonders WHEN this immunity was given considering he was central to the failed sting and the theory of LE.
That said- if all this is correct, than that letter is not worth the paper its printed on if for any reason during this time he has not taken steps to become a citizen in some way.
To anyone reading who may not know- NO. I do not believe RSE was involved in Kyron’s disappearance.
B
United States v. Clements
July 9, 2008
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, PLAINTIFF,
v.
CHRISTOPHER MATTHEW CLEMENTS, DEFENDANT.
http://az.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx?caseID=20080709_0000681.DAZ.htm
Not a lawyer but the problem with that is that he should have objected to the stop and surveillance in the first place- there was no prob cause and that officer was in position to surveil an active warrant on the property, not persons entering a parking lot.
Not looking to cut this creep any breaks, but the law is the law. I assume this was one of his pro se endeavors. That said, in criminal law you tend to see Judge’s not overturning earlier rulings when the individual actually turns out to be a criminal.
B
snip>
This investigation has been a successful partnership among the Tucson Police Department, Pima County Sheriff’s Department, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Maricopa County Sheriff’s Department, Phoenix Police Department, Pima County Attorney’s Office, Maricopa County Attorney’s Office, Border Patrol’s Search Trauma and Rescue Unit (BORSTAR) and the Pima County Office of the Medical Examiner.
https://www.tucsonaz.gov/files/police/media-releases/Isabel_Celis_and_Maribel_Gonzales.pdf
BORSTAR? Blink, Does that have anything to do with your reference to RSE?
Glad you’re back, btw and Happy 87th to Mrs. ATG!
Thank You erose!
It does not, but good question.
B
One of Clement’s victims say “he’s not a one man show.”
snip>
But the woman, who was burglarized in late 2015, said it wasn’t so much the burglary that was violating, it was how Clements and a female accomplice carried out the crime and new intimate details about their lives and home.
According to court records:
“(Victims) received a phone call to their home from a blocked number The female caller told them the FedEx had a package for them and they needed to come pick it up…(The victims) asked to speak to a manager, at which time, a male got on the phone and reassured them they both needed to come to FedEx and pick up the package. When asked where the package was from, the male stated he could not divulge that information but that it had something to do with cancer.”
The woman, who’s in her 80’s, had recently lost her daughter to cancer and was just diagnosed herself.
“It sparked an interest when he said the package was something about cancer,” she said in an interview. “So that’s when I thought maybe, I didn’t want to take a chance and not go pick it up.”
The woman said she and her husband were gone for just 10 minutes. They returned home to front door that had been kicked open and thousands of dollars in jewelry missing.
The woman said she kept her jewelry in an unusual place in the home, causing her to suspect that Clements or someone he worked with had previously been inside her home.
“He knew exactly where to go,” she said. “He’s not a one-man show, I don’t think.”
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/accused-child-killer-christoper-clements-lured-elderly-in-elaborate-valley-burglaries
Yup. Thankful this came out. What has been on my mind lately is that if he is charged with distribution- where are the recipients of that transaction? I would also remind readers that in the Celis case-the neighbor next door who is a critical witness said she heard male voices (plural) outside the window. It is my understanding she was pretty adamant they were not the same voice, indicating more than one actor. Also- although at this point it seems that Clements was unknown to the families of both victims, the statistic is almost 80% of stranger home abductions including significant recon and planning. As an example- how did he know what window was Isa’s?
Yup, there’s more here erose.
B
I’m just so glad he is off the street!!!! Should have been off the streets years ago!!! There should be no leniency in cases where children are victims!!!
So has anyone been able to find out where this Clements creep worked? How did he know where the jewelry was in this woman’s house? The cancer thing makes me wonder if he worked in some sort of medical office, or perhaps through some hospice agency. (Maybe he was just busy reading obits, but the jewelry thing makes me wonder if perhaps the daughter she recently lost hid hers in the same place.???)
What did he do while he was in Oregon? What high school did he attend when he was first convicted of the sex crimes? Was it in Portland? Is it possible this creep went to Skyline Elementary? I found an old MySpace with his name, it doesn’t show much, but where the photos “used to be” hovering over leaves captions….sounds like he may have had a son when he was married. Living in Oregon perhaps? This guy was all over the place, and I’m guessing neither of those Arizona girls was his first murder. If he got smart and there was no DNA on those girls to be found, then I’m leaning toward other murders. If I’m getting correct info on him, he also once lived in Kings County WA. What county did Lindsey Baum live in? I agree, I don’t think we’ve heard the last of this creep!
************
Belated happy birthday to Mrs. ATG! And glad to hear from ya’ll.
Tucson Man Sentenced for Failure to Register as a Sex Offender
January 16, 2009 by Law Admin
TUCSON, Ariz. (LAWFUEL) – Christopher Matthew Clements, 26, of Tucson, Ariz., was sentenced today to 46 months in federal prison by U.S. District Judge David C. Bury. Clements was convicted on August 5, 2008 of failing to register as a convicted sex offender following a federal trial.
Clements, a convicted sex offender, was apprehended at his residence in Tucson in February 2008, following an investigation by the U.S. Marshals Service. He was officially registered with law enforcement officials in Oregon as having an address in Portland. Portland law enforcement officials had already determined that he had vacated the residence in Portland without updating his registration.
Clements first had contact with law enforcement in Tucson in October 2007 on an unrelated matter when officers determined that he was an unregistered sex offender. He was reminded of his requirement to register during that meeting. When Clements failed to do so, law enforcement officials began investigating to determine his whereabouts. As of February 5, 2008, he had still not registered as required by law.
(snipped)
https://www.lawfuel.com/blog/tucson-man-sentenced-for-failure-to-register-as-a-sex-offender/
So apparently Clements was incarcerated at the times Baum & Kyron went missing.
Something is up with this guy I can’t put my finger on. Failing to register as an RSO is not normally a Federal matter per se, but he appears to be in Fed custody and State custody. Failing to register generates warrants and as I recall he was granted bond in a different matter and I don’t think they know about the warrant at the time, Im not sure. He tells Le where Isa is and it takes all this time to charge him? I’m telling you, something is just missing about this guy’s background.
B
some timeline on Clements:
https://tucson.com/news/local/man-charged-in-killing-of-tucson-girls-committed-cross-country/article_84c61614-6f8a-51dc-9a6f-31eb9504530e.html#1
In my opinion there is zero likelihood Clement did not engage in premediated organized burglaries in his Multnomah years, nor female sex-related murders, adult or child. So will Chief Outlaw conduct unsolved case reviews? Won’t ask the DA the same.
“RSE admitted under oath that he had an immunity letter from the DA stating they would not seek to deport him.”
http://blinkoncrime.com/2016/09/21/dr-phil-show-hosts-missing-portland-child-kyron-hormans-step-mom-terri-horman-over-two-episodes/#comments
Well, isn’t that dumb & dumber on RS’ part?
Did he gave ANY, even crapola, atty represent him?
One at the depo? Maybe Engel got him one pro bono as a favor?
really it speaks ill of the DAs involved: Don Rees? Frink? Shrunk? Moawad?
Who’s the smokescreen deviser, positing the recipient was a
dumb illegal, was this out of that squirrelly DA crew?
1) immunity letters are to address participation in a crime to which one is witness
& will testify. So IF Rudy participated in a murder for hire crime, an immunity letter
would relate & forgive the criminal charge for his role. It didn’t.
2) As far as deportation goes, DA had no role, therefore a lie.
3) if letter said I won’t call ICE on you, well that was Multnomah Cty
policy from the Commissioner to the DA to the Sheriff.
Calling ICE was way not OK, so ehatever DA did this tricked him.
Says more about the DA (tricky) than Rudy.
Im going to agree that whatever he’s got does not bind ICE or any Fed whatsoever.
B
Does this mean that RSE’s role in all of this was as a “character witness” for the prosecution of TH?
It is my strong and corroborated belief RSE was prompted by LE to make the “solicitation” plea. Had Terri been upfront with Kaine when she hired the guy, instead of giving the credit to James to help his relationship with Kaine, this “theory” hatched to entrapment plan never surfaces. I remain entirely convinced that MCSO expected to take Terri Horman into custody and when she called 911 (after leaving the det messages, btw) and reported the “tresspassor demanding money” and her son was missing and she could not locate Kaine nor Kiara the real pic emerged. It is also my personal opinion this is when the FBI packs up and tells MCSO they are not going to be involved in such “tactics.”
B
On the last page of the court documents it states that Clements had pictures of Celis residence stashed in his Bible while in the Pima County Jail. How does that happen? Was the Bible or pictures smuggled in or was the Bible approved and no one check for items inside of it or did someone at the jail allow this? I find this more than odd.
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/2018/09/22/documents-clements-told-fiance-he-knew-four-bodies-desert/
I smell an informant. I have never heard of the FBI removing an inmate and they never ran his NCIS or VICAP or whatever and he is former Fed felon and RSO. I do not buy that one iota. It’s entirely possible it was in the best interests of their investigation to not admit that, but no way in Hell are they taking that guy to a known murder recovery site under the guise of a second child recovery and they have no idea who he is. I can feel it in my bones- this guy is a serial. There’s more.
This guy needs a full scale multi-state EXHAUSTIVE, INVASIVE background check. Every job, every home, every associate, every gf.
You are on point as usual erose- how did he get those “developed” images of the Celis home into his possession in the first place.
B
If this Clements guy was living only a couple of miles away from the Celis’s home, and apparently Tucson PD knew he was a convicted sex offender, because he had been arrested for not registering before his case was appealed, was he ever questioned by them? Were any of the RSO’s in the area questioned?
Makes me cringe to think back to Staton’s comments to the reporter that she shouldn’t be asking such a ridiculous question, when she asked him if they had been questioned in Kyron’s case.
Interestingly when Terri Horman asked that same question she was told there was not a RSO within 5 miles of Skyline. Irrc she ended up looking it up and pointed out their error. To your point- remember the guy from the Wendy’s bathroom- a reporter tried to get his probation/parole records and was denied to date? I would also add I don’t know the stats today, but a few years ago Oregon was the absolute worst state in the US for being behind in updating RSO online status.
B
B
Boy oh boy. The #1 suspect, reported last person to be seen with victim, and step-parent of victim goes to voicemail.
snip>
…when she called 911 (after leaving the det messages, btw…
erose says:
September 20, 2018 at 11:55 pm
Yup, as did her calls to her husband.
B
While Oregon may be the worst state in keeping the RSO lists updated, how many more states are not doing a good job. The RSO concept was a good idea regarding notification to the public. If LE does not maintain the lists in a timely manner, then they become useless. Entry of data takes time which means manpower that local LE may not allocate.
It is too bad that LE does not use local volunteer help in doing this work. We are now nearly forty years into the small computer age and twenty-five years into the internet, One would think that LE had learned to use those tools effectively.
I completely agree with this. Having spent plenty of time in many medical facilities over the last few months- I can tell you their is no shortage of retired volunteers there (as an example).
B
O/T More on Clements:
Court document tells how accused killer led investigators to remains of Isabel Celis
https://tucson.com/news/local/court-document-tells-how-accused-killer-led-investigators-to-remains/article_97490c41-bb8c-53b7-9afe-1c8159ffccb0.html
Blink you are so correct about something is up with this guy Clements. He agrees to tell LE where Isabella’s body is in exchange for burglary charges being dropped. That does not make any sense. I have also read he had searches on his computer about a murder in Hawaii. Who is this guy and who is his family. Who does this guy know?
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/2018/09/22/documents-clements-told-fiance-he-knew-four-bodies-desert/
https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2018/03/30/hawaii-news/video-suggests-dana-irelands-killer-still-at-large/
Federal Custody because this guys crimes are across state lines or even oceans?
Ikr. Yesterday I went through his entire docket from the failure to register in AZ charge that was overturned and remanded.
It was overturned on a SORNA timeline issue (short version) and if you can believe it- his Atty asked for future credit if he ever faced Fed charges or incarceration again based on his time served. It should be noted that new charges were filed in superior court even though there was an agreement to drop. His co defendant, and the redacted name from the docs you have seen is a Melissa C Stark (Binning). There are a few links on here re one of the alleged victims from the gold coin burglary who state that there was no way it was not an “inside job”. Very interested to know her involvement in that regard, if any. So, in August 2011 he gets out and in April 2012 he abducts and murders a 6 year old from her home. All this with active probations and warrants elsewhere. WTF?
Lastly, the computer searches (and frankly that prob cause warrant is one of the worst I have seen- in any jurisdiction I have ever worked in it would have required the affi of the FBI agents involved as they are referenced because Fed discovery rules are very different (one issue) could have been anyone with access. Hopefully they have nailed down that issue by authenticating the digital forensics.
B
Remarkable no Portland Press have picked up on Clement &
his Multnomah hx, tho press has very significantly
eroded there over the last 8 years.
For sure. And its not like they will take the time to pour over the court records and factual data, lol. I have to say in my experience Tucson does a good job of posting corroborating docs. He def has an active warrant there- it was not hard to find.
B
The houses in the Celis neighborhood are not custom built although there are different front faces on them. In a development of this type, the developer with often contracts with an architect to design three floor plans and three different types of front entrances for each of the plans. Each of the plans can be flipped to give three more variants.
If I remember correctly, the windows on the bedrooms of the Celis house had some that were high. To make an entrance and exit would require a ladder or a second person to help get the perp into and out of the house. If one of the perps had been inside a house that had the same floor plan or reversed plan, they would know enough to get in and out without alerting anyone.
I also remember tracing the nearby creek to its origin that was Northwest of town.
IIRC, Isa’s window faced the neighbors to the left on the west side of the home. To access her window, you would HAVE to either use the gate or traverse it in some manner. From memory only- I do recall a set of footprints on some sort of electrical box (I consider that the service box for underground wiring). This guy appears to be a highly organized burglar to boot- I have no doubt he had either been in that home at some point or accessed info as to its layout by some means. The family has not commented yet on whether or not they knew “of” him even, so not sure.
B
This guy has been a criminal a long time. He knows enough about the system to keep many of his crimes hidden from LE and employers. He will only give-up information that he can use to bargain with.
I got the impression the vehicle was being held in the burglary case. Clements didn’t want the forensics done on the vehicle in the homicide case(s) because “hair stays forever” (paraphrasing). Is it true that evidence seized in one case cannot be used in another? Maybe, in his mind, getting that car back would negate any chance for the discovery of evidence in the homicide thus giving him the opportunity (legally) to confess and getting a better deal.
From what I read the car was returned to Ms. Stark- a stipulation of the agreement. That said, it also indicates it WAS processed- however, I don’t know if that was wrt the burglary case. If evidence is properly seized in one case and their is probable cause to believe it needs to be “seized” in another, under a separate SW (or if required an amended warrant- I would have to see the verbiage on the first- these guys are very vague for my taste) it can absolutely be seized for a different case.
Obviously it is subject to chain of custody verifications, etc, and there ARE some exemptions like “plain sight” and in some jurisdictions that ole “we would have found it eventually anyway” which usually comes into play if there are issues raised about prob cause/miranda/warrant. Almost everything submitted in the pending cases (I do not see his docket on the double murder charges yet) has been submitted under seal since mid September. There were a couple orders enforced by the court for what was ultimately DNA and other bio evidence as well as a forced order for a full 10 prints- considering he is a convicted felon from 21 years ago that certainly did not make sense to me. I have found 2 aliases I am sure are him, so there’s that.
B
He really wanted that car out of custody.
snip>
The FBI interviewed Clements in February 2017 and he said he knew where Isabel was buried but refused to lead them to her unless two Pima County burglary cases against him were dismissed. Authorities also agreed to release Clements’ vehicle, which was being held in the burglary case.
snip>
He told agents he knows what weapon was used to kill Isabel, but refused to tell authorities where it was unless the Maricopa County burglary charges are dropped and he is allowed to go home.
Snip>
The inmate identified Clements from a photograph and told authorities Clements started talking to him about the Celis case.
Clements allegedly told the other inmate that there was “damning evidence” in the trunk of Clements car and he “had to get it back.”
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/2018/09/22/documents-clements-told-fiance-he-knew-four-bodies-desert/http://blinkoncrime.com/wp-admin/comment.php?action=editcomment&c=2262953
Right. It should also be noted that although his drives and hardware were seized in 2016 re the burglary case(s) it appears that (if the sw is to be believed) they did not analyze any of it until the instant matter. I do not understand that whatsoever.
I also saw a few docket entries where motions were filed to modify custody/bond for out of state travel- in my view one or both of the defendants very likely accompanied LE investigating some of that web detail.
B
ot
this is interesting, wrt antisocial sexually violent teen males generally, from researcher Kevin Swartout:
“This is part of a more general trend researchers have identified regarding adolescent antisocial behavior that disappears once an individual reaches adulthood. Based on my research, 70% to 75% of young men who perpetrated sexual violence only do so during a relatively limited time frame. Very few of the men who commit sexual violence are serial offenders, so I was not surprised by the idea that these behaviors were limited to adolescence.”
Good to know. Argument for keeping juvenile records sealed. .
https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-ford-testimony-credibility-memory-20180928-story.html%3foutputType=amp
Means Clement’s a real outlier, tho his started in childhood (age 11).
My dearest Rose- since I KNOW this was not a backdoor attempt for political discussion, LOL,
let me just speak to Swartout’s comments generally. That’s the actual problem- to NOT quote citations in support, and suggest “sexual violence” in such a broad term is ludicrous. He has had some battles over such behavior previously: https://retractionwatch.com/2016/08/18/university-says-no-misconduct-in-campus-rape-paper/
I can’t even intelligently refute what he is saying with specificity because he never offers the basis for his conclusions for review and comparison in the first place. That said- from an offender perspective, if he is suggesting that the same paraphilias or general personality disorders that are the impetus for a “rape” of any kind, are the product of adolescence in an institutional setting just add beer- I am going to say (while not openly scoffing unprofessionally) I vehemently disagree with him with a host of personal and professional training, education and experience, scores of cases, studies and empirical data to back me up.
I think we are going to find that Clements profile is going to track pretty closely with what we already know publicly- simply put, a textbook case that continued offending, with escalation when he absconded and nobody pushed warrants for reasons I for one, really want to know why that is (was). I would add that without the benefit of the specifics in both girls abduction and homicide cases which are required for a more specific offender profile, on the surface he is also tracking with a profile of an offender who abducts and murders children which are motivated sexually. If the case gets to a point where I can make that statement as fact- I will actually do a post on that. As you know, it is my belief that offender profile has never been excluded wrt to Kyron’s case.
B
B
You know, Blink, I figured out after the fact or I wouldn’t have posted, you would check out the opiner’s credibility & research evidence. Then I got sorry I put you to that trouble. But I didn’t ask you to delete lest you think it a back door political pist. I could do a lit better job of that, so it wasn’t. I was cheered to think 75% of male juvenile sexual assaulters did not repffend once their frontal lobes matured. Now that I think of it, why would that juvenile crime differ from any other if mere brain maturity were the cure?
Clement first allegedly committed sexual assault at 11. It behooves MCPD & MCSO to go back, id his addresses & relatives & schools at times of State residence, interview his family network & neighbors, and try to crossref with any missing girls within reach of his whereabouts.
Almost more diagnostic of SZ than his probable predilection to sexual violence directed at prepubertal males is his certain organization mentally & behaviorally. There he differs from Clements. If govts had been tracking an adjudicated SO, required to register & sure to offend, he’d have been caught sooner for the Celis crime. One notes he drove a backhoe. So did the McStay murderer. Wonder if any of Rudy’s employees drove backhoes. (Ppl comfortable w/landfills.) As for familiarity w/school, in 2010 detailed drawings were readily available online, & an organized abductor would plan with them.
I completely agree with you that part of the Celis investigation must include a wide berth of Clement’s background, peripherals and reviewed for the potential of additional victims. I don’t guess there are- I am confident of it. This is just a guess on my part, but I feel that Kyron’s abductor will have a much less obvious paraphillic and offense track. I think he’s the dude of hushed rumor or accusations that never went anywhere. The kind that are very hard to detect, let alone catch.
Clements is creepy-er once we know he was quite literally absconding in multiple states yet he was able to abduct and murder- who gets to shoulder that responsibility to society I wonder?
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I would be utterly shocked if “the Task Force” checked out & corroborated
alibis for UNregistered SOs living in Multnomah in
2010 whether adjudicated in OR or
in any other State who had moved to OR & not registered.
I think they’d be too lazy to ck out those adjudicated somewhere
but not registered in Mult.
Im pretty sure as I recall there were a great number of RSO’s with addresses like “homeless” or “under a bridge”. How does one go about reviewing such an alibi as to activity? If they abscond it is supposed to go through a process to flag warrants and elevate finding the guy- where did this fail? That’s an important question I cannot fathom the Portland “press” ignoring.
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I feel SZ will have a computer hard drive w/prepubertal boy porn.
Was anyone arrested for that specifically (&
nothing else) in MultCo in 2010-11 I wonder?
Agreed, but maybe not on CPU, but alternative storage media.
B
One rule out group would
be any men coaching prepubertal boys at the
Hormans’ 2 gyms in “body building”.
The only similar I can think of was the quickdraw
rev., who drove a van to
Skyline for afterschool transport to class at his martial arts
studio. He’d planned to grow that business to the Skyline
Church he bought & rebuilt, but that didn’t materialize
& his group sold the church to that lady. One Q I always had for Teri
was whether Kyron participated, ever, in an afterschool
martial arts class.
I apologize if this is inappropriate or out of left field but I was wondering if there was anyone with the first or last name of Brett pertinent to this case? Thanks for any input!
I don’t feel like I can answer that broad of a question intelligently, no offense.
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more questions I always had for Teri. For the last few days Soldier has had a pic up of Kyron at a “track meet,” maybe doing some kind of jump. Appears to be at Hillsboro High (Spartans). Was he in a running or track club? The Special Educator at Skyline, who moved to work for Vancouver WA PS, at least on line had a Skyline Running Club in 2010.
Second, in that pic Kyron is the only boy with a velcro sneakers fastening. Every boy behind him had prominent laceups. So, was he behind peers in fine (or large) motor or clumsiness? If so, was motor ever tied in in her mind with his visual deficits? Was his limited vision due to colobomas? Did Kaine deny or did she fear he would become angry about, treatment for Kyron’s physical needs, ie a physician’s work up for attention, impulsivity in the classwork, or other matters?
When Rev was rebuilding Skyline Church, the work team
included “Christian” transient volunteers from other States.
Once there was a pic of some seated with him.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/09/11/kyron-horman-disappearance-series-part-i-desiree-young-v-terri-horman-civil-as-an-oxymoron/
-snip
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases
———————————
Is it possible this David Roy Davis was incarcerated because of something DY told police and when he was released from Jail/prison he sought revenge on DY by taking her son? Hopefully LE has found this guy and knows where he was at the time Kyron disappeared. Also do you think if there is any truth to a relationship between DY and David Roy Davis, that David may have been acquainted with Kaine or Terri?
Personally- I do not. I think it was a key error on data point but I could never distill it further (thus why I disclosed it). If I can’t confirm something independently, especially as it goes to “theory” it will almost always be considered null by me.
B
Brett? Kaine’s lawyer for one.
just human interest
http://www.kenpotalk.com/forum/132-kenpo-kempo-organizations/8629-possibly-defunct-organizations.html
7-20-12 monk64
“…I think the school (martial arts) was only successful when it did a lot of after-hours kid programs, school pickups, summer camps, etc. I don’t think the new owner …” The Hillsboro OAKKA. “Just a note… Thailand was a short lived residence.. He (Hebler) moved back to San Diego.”
Hebler was also 1 of Elvis’ security: http://www.kenpotalk.com/forum/9-kenpo-news/13335-going-away-seminar-dave-hebler.html
———
Btw Townsley’s wife is a Sr copy editor at 2 Hillsboro papers having dialed back from editing, reporting, & opinions. Redden’s paper. She apparently was following education issues in 2010ff.
ot again only human interest
This is the man who owned the local OAKKA, which
depended on kids & after school, sold it to QuickDraw,
& iirc from the kenpo threads left Multnomah for Thailand in 2011. On
return to San Diego, he seems to continue to have done well
for himself. http://americanfamilykenpokarate.com/en/instructors-124817/san-diego-location-125087/open-news:62961
Blink, in your lengthy unpublished interviews of Teri, did you ask her whether Kyron went to any organized after school activities in 2008-10, with a leader/instructor/coach/teacher/babysitter, on or off premises, & if off-premises, was transportation provided by the service, such as Hillsboro family martial arts did from Skyline? If asked, can you share the answer?
I did. The general answer is no.
B
TUCSON – Christopher Clements may have visited Isabel Celis’ house because he was trying to buy a car parked outside, according to newly released Tucson Police Department reports.
(snipped)
https://kvoa.com/news/n4t-investigators/2018/09/27/n4t-investigators-detectives-believe-clements-tried-to-buy-car-from-celis-family/
@Grace Wilson says:
October 4, 2018 at 11:13 pm
At this point, I don’t consider anything too far “out there”. But, I’d like to know why you asked? A dream or something?
You know, all this new DNA/genealogy research now resulting in solving cold cases, I sure wish someone would pull Stacy Wilmoth’s files from the Gresham PD. (If they even kept them.) And see if there’s any traceable dna on her any clothes that remained on after she was left for dead. One of the articles on her had said that a garment was tentatively id’d as belong to her and found in the Boring area southeast of Portland. I wonder if they still have it. Whomever did that to her, has been able to re-offend for years. I realize 1978 was a long time ago, but look what they were able to then pin on the Goldenstate rapist.
Her disappearance was so much like Kyron’s I still wonder.
Agreed.
B