Dr. Phil Show Hosts Missing Portland Child Kyron Horman’s Step Mom Terri Horman Over Two Episodes
I have been covering this case since Kyron Horman disappeared from Skyline School in June, 2010. Like most missing persons cases I have covered in the past, I am of the strong opinion that best efforts at the truth are the only way to propel investigations that, similarly to Kyron’s, have gone cold for one reason or another. This approach has worked in resolving some of my previous cases. I am proud of that. I remain steadfast to the integrity involved in those and future cases.
Over the past 10 months (or so) I have been developing an updated series on Kyron’s case to include my multiple interviews with Kyron’s step-mom, Terri Horman. Needless to say as she was the subject of at least three simultaneous cases before an Oregon court and remains a person of interest by the agency investigating her sons disappearance, this has been an arduous and sometimes delicate journey. Ms. Horman’s experiences during the ongoing investigation of the disappearance of Kyron Horman are critically important to propelling his case and with great hope- finding the truth about what happened to this cherubic and innocent child. There are dozens of sources, collateral interviews, forensic experts and legal analysts that also contribute to my series and have done so because of their belief that my motivation is to bring to light information and opinions in such a way that would almost “require” a focused review of Kyron’s case and the likely shaking of that proverbial tree everyone talks about.
Set to publish about 6-ish weeks ago I was asked to postpone the first installment of the series, which I did. I subsequently learned Ms. Horman was participating in the Dr. Phil program after she completed taping. Dr. Phils producers were well aware that Ms. Horman had interviewed with me extensively, and anticipated my series would be publishing information that was not known to the public previously in the days prior to her scheduled episode. When Ms. Horman conveyed to me that she feels obligated to speak out about “her son” in any national medium that will have her, I most certainly respected that. I still do.
While Dr. Phil seems like a gregarious fellow for sure, I have zero interest in being associated with his program, nor do I believe his shows content is designed to do any furtherance of investigation or truth. There is much concern (although I have no affiliation to the show whatsoever) that the timing of the publication of my series on the Kyron Horman matter might be interpreted differently or inadvertently contribute to the programs content or audience reactions. Not what I signed on for. A missing 7 year old boy six years running is not a framework for entertaining a target audience. He is not fodder for online social media bully campaigns- yet it occurs.
I will be publishing my series on Kyron’s case at a later date, in it’s entirety with no editing adjustments as a result of any of the appearances on Dr. Phil. I appreciate your patience and your understanding. Feel free to discuss the show below.
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@ T. Ruth says:
June 8, 2017 at 12:48 pm
http://blinkoncrime.com/2016/09/21/dr-phil-show-hosts-missing-portland-child-kyron-hormans-step-mom-terri-horman-over-two-episodes/#comments
1) Statute of Limitations. I haven’t looked it up in OR but after 7 yrs surely it’s tolled and the opportunity is forwver lost. .2) of course as a suit’s consequence the investigation would have benefitted and justice woukd’ve been served for kyron wrt the pps employees and institution who handed him (indoors during the school day) to a predator. Wrt investigation, it woukd’ve gotten much information about SZ into the public square. That would hold the public in high esteem as partners in the search for facts. A former fbi dir chose the value of the public square and govt transparency. Failure to sue is the strongest evidence neither bio has ever wanted anything other than Terri to be charged, tried, and punished to advance their own agendas which apparently dwarf a significant monetary payout. .
Negligence/PI tort is 2 years from the event (action) must be noticed beforehand. It should be noted DY COULD HAVE kept that suit in abeyance for YEARS to simply preserve her right not to “time out”. There is also the option of a cognizable event (unknown intel leading to claim of negligence of some kind) that re-set a clock, but that is not going to happen here- she never filed against the school although she knows full of SZ and direct witness accounts. You can’t sue John Doe as “the actor” if you don’t support the claim. In short- if SZ is ever tied to the crime, anyone with standing certainly could seel legal remedy based on that “new info”. So yeah, before anyone says it- it is possible DY does not mention the existence of SZ directly because she runs the risk of a dismissal for being untimely.
B
whether or not Bernstein actually “reports”, this piece like others reads like she stitches together secondhand media sources and ancient history on her laptop from a room of her own or while out with ladies who lunch. I highly doubt she talked firsthand to Gates, probably an email. Interesting that she listed mcso as a cosponsor of the Salem event but she doesn’t state if anyone, or who, from mcso attended. more likely than not, not even a high school intern from O was there. Anyone go to see Sanford at Powells?
I am amazed when the morons on the WS page say K will never know her mother. How could K not know and be curious about her Mom if K sees TH on the news (they keep re running the film of TH trying to change her name in Eugene ). At least it is for sure Kaine cannot tell his daughter her mom is dead.
I think because DY/mmedia will probably keep TH in the news for the next 7 to 10 years. K will want to find her mom and ask for herself what happened.
It probably has not been missed by K that she looks a lot like her mom.
If Kyle/Hater crater keep announcing where TH lives at least it will be easy enough for K to find her.
I think it is just baiting. They have literally no idea whether Terri spends time with her daughter or not, nor should they. Once again, Kiara’s parental custody and parenting plan is private, but as we all know, there is a legal order in place that was public. One should assume there are multiple professionals involved in the oversight of same, and I have to say, some lunatic ranting about it has got to help garner sympathy for Terri.
B
great comment on Shrunk Sr.
Looks like Cogen did nothing out of the ordinary.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.oregonlive.com/v1/articles/20478121/bad_cops_and_worse_mayors_phil.amp
I forgot–Gates was a big overtime winner in
the summer of 200. What a conflict of interest.
He was Patrol. Why is the DA letting him get
away with thus? one reason is to preserve
mcsoofficers already weak credibility in this
and other cases I guess. Stanford’s next book
needs to be on tge DA’s Office as seen thru their
work on the Horman case: Schrunk, Frink,
Underhill, Rees, Heim. the stings. the threats. the lies.
“is possible DY does not mention the existence of SZ
directly because she runs the risk of a dismissal for being untimely. B”
how wise; damn straight as I reflect. but she cannot know that
legal posture independently. So,
she had not only legal advice but was zipped by Counsel
into a straightlaced corset. Such legal posturing shows
she is keenly rational and capable of abstract reasoning and
even cunning, the first two qualities of which I had doubted.
Right Rose, this is my belief for a while now. In my heart of hearts I can’t say that I blame her. I can’t think of much I would not do to end the pain she is in, even at my own peril. Where the bad advice comes in (or does it) is that any of it will help retrieve or recover Sir Kyron. I promise all- it will not. I am open to a rebuttal- but you will NOT find one similar case she could rely on for justification. I truly wonder if DY has reached out to Patti Wetterling. You would think the parallels of the cases and the NCMEC work would facilitate that, but as you astutely pointed out there is that funding coming up for review…
B
o/t This case was cited on the Kyron billboard announcement. Apparently, the who and the why has been solved, but the girls have never been found.
The FBI’s Portland division also is noting two other missing children cases involving sisters Shaina Ashley Kirkpatrick and Shausha Latine Henson. Shaina was 3 and her sister was 2-months-old when they disappeared on April 4, 2001. The girls were last seen with their mother on the way to Sacramento, according to the FBI.
On April 29, 2001, their mother’s body was found outside of Fernley, Nevada, but the girls were never located.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/05/fbi_places_billboards_across_s.html
Details of the disappearance.
https://letsfindthem.wordpress.com/tag/unsolved-disappearances/
Dunno what to say about this excerpt from an FBI prepared statement (it says, no direct attribution) :
“The goal is to raise awareness about missing kid cases and to keep alive the hope that – like that perpetually-lost sock in the wash – we can help bring some of these missing children home,” the FBI said in a prepared release.
Really- comparison to socks lost in the laundry? I get the concept of hope as it relates to mp cases (for me this is case dependent based on any verified facts).
B
@cd/Blink. imo Kaine’s importation of a essentially homeless acolyte from CA wanting a roof and stability over 2 dau’s heads was his cunningly obtaining a foia in the custody case with babysitter/sexual side benefits aka the then new mommie. I am not surprised if there is another new mommie as k enters adolesence to offset and deflect her interest in real mommie.
—–
we cannot attribute to kiara our own rational projections about her interests. Losing her mother and 2 brothers and stable grandparents at age 2, what are her psychological attachment chances? not to mention kaine foisting on her an in and out new mother and 2 resentful oldee sisters in the home? Poor self esteem at a minimum. but she is at risk genetically for adolescent acting out, impulsivity, etc. whatever her interest is in birthmother, imo it will not be a rational process. and, given her attachment hx, and fathering, I would predict rather than research Terri, she will have concrete, black and white reasoning and in identification with dad (lest she loose her only stable parental figure), she will roundly reject Terri, not seak her out. jimo.
I rely on your expertise here, but I also agree generally.
Definitely not my area of assessment so I can only speak to my experience overall as an observer working in family law matters occasionally. This is my opinion and not based on any knowledge I may or may not have re same-I said at the time, and I am repeating now- the reunification agreement worded similarly would likely have been rejected, or at least discussed in a hearing openly if occurred in my jurisdiction based on my experience with the rotating fam law judges. Kantor (in my view) had no business residing over this case based on his involvement in the other.
B
There is a new tip line number for Kyron hormone tips.
From Stacey/WS
There is a NEW tip line number for Kyron’s case, PLEASE be sure to share. Thank you!
If you have information that will help bring Kyron home, please contact the NEW tip line at 503-988-0560.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1355366171219967&id=161645780592018
———————–
Multnomah Co. Sheriff’s Office
One such case that received national attention on June 4th 2010, was the disappearance of Kyron Horman from Skyline Middle School, he was 7 years old at the time.
Attached is a flyer with details of this case as well as newly updated age enhanced photos. Anyone with information regarding this case should contact the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Tipline at (503) 988 — 0560.
https://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=1276
———————–
Kaine needs to update the tip line number on his .org site.
From the Kaine Horman’s Bring Kyron home site
TIP LINE INFO:
call: 503-261-2847
email tips to:
tips@bringkyronhome.org
http://www.bringkyronhome.org
ot what a shame. Wetterling lost to michelle bachman
apparently due to an Independent in the race.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_Wetterling
the good she could have done in Congress.
—-
Anyway, it was an opportunist residing nearby.
http://www.startribune.com/patty-wetterling-wins-national-award/427316933/
If you mean Heinrich- ultimately the man who killed Jacob, he is NOT the man LE literally hounded, very publicly, and tore apart his parents farm multiple times (lets say for this discussion the declared suspect was the “Terri” in this case). I make no observations on the incorrect suspect, except to say that Ms. Wetterling refused to point a finger at him- which was apparently an excellent move on her part because he was innocent.
Underplayed in every way of course, but the resolution of Jacob’s case (finally) began with Joy Baker- a local blogger who connected male attacks (the original one plus+) in the Paynesville area. I am told this facilitated the FBI’s involvement because of issues within the Paynesville LE and low and behold- right there in that lil’ ole file was Heinrich- a suspect from the very beginning. Heinrich even moved parts of the remains when they “surfaced” many years ago. Honestly, if the FBI had not stepped in here, I do not believe this case would have been solved to date and Jacob would have been recovered. In matters of missing children especially, it is my belief it should be protocol to bring in the FBI and its resources, period. Most muni or local le agencies do NOT have the resources to work these cases appropriately and without oversight. This sweet little lad joined the ranks of one of the ugliest statistics in crime- this was sexually motivated, perpetrated by a stranger to him, and he was killed in hours of his abduction. His offender kept offending without detection for many years and technology only aided him.
So I ask you, suppose you were the parents of one of Heinrich’s eventual victims (not just those attacked, but those recorded and/or targeted) wouldn’t you freak the eff out that he was on LE radar very early and want to know, at a minimum, how the ball was dropped here? I am not here to add to any anti-LE sentiment, that is counter productive generally, imo. That said, you better believe someone needs to account for what changes were identified as necessary and what plans for training as a result exist. Then I ask- who were his associates, who was he sharing child porn with (if he was) what did we learn as an agency from this case that can not only prepare us for others but can be used to resolve current cases?
B
@cd
Yes, that’s the number (503-988-0560) on MCSO’s new missing poster which is linked on KH’s BKH site, he probably just didn’t get around to change it on his website yet, or overlooked it, but BKH does link to the new flyer with the new number.
So am I understanding this correctly, if there were new information publicly released, for instance, LE admitting Kyron was removed by a SZ, it could constitute a legal reason to sue the school/PPS, based on said new info? But if DY & KH already were informed about SZ, why didn’t they sue?
I further wonder if other parents of children within that school district could latch on as co-plaintiffs (joiners) in a civil suit. (For instance, those who had to pull their kids from that school and had to relocate them elsewhere, or even those parents of children who remained in that school, but whose children suffered marked fear and worry, and other stresses after Kyron was abducted from their school.)
I specifically remember KH talking about how safe the school was, I believe it was when school was beginning in the fall of the 2010-2011 school year, where he was interviewed on TV attending some school assembly or some such. If, Kaine Horman was aware of SZ at that time, (don’t know when he found out), then couldn’t he be included in the lawsuit as defendant, and of course, MCSO, themselves. Then of course he could turn around and sue MCSO for misleading him as well.
If LE told TMH about SZ, then why doesn’t she sue the school?
No standing per se. And to my knowledge, LE has never told TMH about SZ, she learned about it reading here first, then in court depositions. Fwiw, she is a material witness so I would not expect them to.
If you recall a joint interview whereby Kaine and Desiree mentioned their concern that Kyron had some listening issues the previous year and they were concerned that their correction of it was “in play” here (words to that effect) it is my understanding that it was just prior to that. (means post TMH sting)
Not following your train of thought that Kaine could be sued as a defendant for saying the school was safe- by then it had a state of the art security system to include facial recognition software if activated so just by that standard alone it probably was safer than many similar environments. Bottom line- Kaine had motivation in every way NOT to admit SZ was real, verified by multiple witnesses, and when asked publicly he deferred until the disollution was finalized. ie: the public would in some way learn this and it would be a flaming credibility killer to him if he did not speak truthfully on it. He got to say (if he was ever compelled to) he did what he was advised through LE and counsel to do.
B
erose says:
June 9, 2017 at 6:58 pm
Dunno what to say about this excerpt from an FBI prepared statement (it says, no direct attribution) :
“The goal is to raise awareness about missing kid cases and to keep alive the hope that – like that perpetually-lost sock in the wash – we can help bring some of these missing children home,” the FBI said in a prepared release.
Really- comparison to socks lost in the laundry? I get the concept of hope as it relates to mp cases (for me this is case dependent based on any verified facts).
B
**********
IKR? When I saw that analogy the other day, all I could think of is all the missing socks I’ve NEVER found. (Don’t know where they go, but someone once suggested to me that they end up overflowing somehow into the case, if you will, of your washing machine, so you should always put your socks and other lightweight washables in first. ??????)
Anyway, I think that analogy stinks, and is horribly depressing and certainly not hopeful. It does however, if whomever told me that is correct, suggest that perhaps these missing children are generally much closer to ground zero than not.
Surely they can come up with something better than a missing sock. Sigh.
I have to believe it was especially offensive to any parent missing a child.
o/t: in my house, if you don’t ball your socks they sit in the laundry bin, lol. That way if they get lost in the process its on me.
B
about k, I just meant while under his roof and
dependent. she’s seen
mothers being kicked out & severed.
Agree totally. I see it everyday unfortunately- parents cannot put the child ahead of their own resentment issues and what they continually fail to understand is that the child “absorbs” those issues against themselves because they lack the emotional maturity to process them accordingly. I sincerely hope she is in a therapeutic setting designed to deal with all that has befallen her and the outcome in her little life.
B
CD, Interesting post. The 0560 # – Clackamas Sheriff. The 2847 # – Multnomah Sheriff.
I know, lost socks, FTLOG. I posted it as it is a Portland FBI missing person case, though probably received more coverage in Nevada, it is the first I’ve heard. I also found it interesting that ID theft contributed to motive. I would think two lost little Portland girls would get more attention locally.
Right. In the event ID theft is in play, it is likely an issue regarding need for a social security number for citizenship purposes. It is very, very common in families with immigration issues and I can tell you it was the case for RSE as well. I don’t know if the ability to cross reference SS# has changed as a result of pending or existing exec orders Nationally, but if it has not, our ability at the National level to detect bogus numbers or numbers used by multiple individuals relies almost solely on a need to verify them by some means- no place to put the flags otherwise.
B
Rose
In reading your post about little K and the things that have happened to her regarding not being allowed a relationship with her bio mother, and the reply from Blink. I agree with your principle position and with Blink’s reply. However, somewhere in her teen years I believe she will become curious about the entire issue of bio mother not being there for her and will make an effort to find the truth.
It will be an eye opening experience for her to discover all the false reasons from father and the courts. I hope she has a strong character and will use it to become a better person because of her misfortune.
If Wetterling is any guide, or parallel as to predator,
then SZ was a local opportunist who saw the outdoor sign and walked in.
and his remains are not far away. But, SZ called him Kyron.
So, their paths crossed in the bldg earlier, or he knew his
name ftom community encounters. I buy door 1. Re paths
crossing in the bldg earlier, Terri was
mcso’s best collaborative interviewee and witness.
And mcso blew it, Shoukd’ve also collected
ALL SF pics and id’d him.
I cannot say with certainty that he called him Kyron or an abbreviated version and stating more than that would reveal witness info so I will have to leave it at that. For me, I do not feel I am able to conclude that Kyron (by name) was the known target that might be inferred by such an act. To date, I cannot exclude the possibility this individual targeted Kyron individually by some means or by standing in a room and deducing what male child was not in the company of a parent chaperone. I can only state with certainty what I already have regarding their exchange and outcome.
I don’t see how anyone can say with certainty whether Kyron was specifically targeted as a pre-meditated victim or a victim of opportunity. If one cannot identify SZ, and make no mistake, he has not been identified to date, then there is no way to know the connection.
B
…0560 is the tip line for mcso.
cold case tip line ends in 70.
may 28
https://m.facebook.com/Clackamas-County-Sheriffs-Office-385638251522068/?__tn__=%7E
OSP sent out, and Clackamus re-piblished, 3 kyron photos, none new.
@ATG. What k has to fear at any age is legit if you recall Topher’s family story. Very authoritarian home, probably going back to Melvin. When he did not comport with father’s demands, his parents put him, wife & 3 young kids out to live in their car. only at that point did he go see his mother, divorced by Horman. He had had no contact with mother growing up. since age 2.
—–
one wonders if Kaine has allowed kiara to maintain contact with kristin and Shelby?
The other residential Hill called her a jeckell/hyde, so one doubts she stayed in touch.
—-
People in Terri, James, Kiara or Christopher’s shoes often wonder about
birth mother or father after having children themselves.
this Feb image of Reese & Gates was hard to re-find, and the article on numbers behind mergers does not link.
In younger pics Gates appeared to be bulked up (thick neck, muscular arms). Here he has aged:
https://goo.gl/images/T3beqr
if there were steroid users in mcso’s ranks in 2010,
the agency has every reason not to give
the investigation away to the fbi.
Who told TMH that Kyron was seen with some unknown male chaperone?
No need to be specific in naming names. I mean was it LE, or some teacher or some other Skyline staff or some other parent or some other student?
I cant answer that outside of any comments I have already made T.Ruth, sorry. I would categorize that piece of information as largely withheld, even from some investigators with the original task force.
B
@Blink. Do you kniw how are the Moultons? Well?
Has kiara been allowed by kaine to see, visit with,
what were loving grandparents and excellent role models?
This is somewhat of an emotional question for me to answer because like you, I absolutely believe the Moulton’s to be nothing short of exceptional and loving parents and grandparents. Simple, hardworking professional people who (by all accounts) adored their grandchildren and were always available to make the trip to Portland whenever needed or just to visit. I do not have permission to speak publicly about what I know was done to them for standing by their daughter and grandchildren following Kyron’s disappearance or I would.
As far as seeing Kiara, it is my understanding that they have made dozens of requests to see her through the appropriate channels and Kaine has denied them all. Oregon (Troxel v Granville, I mentioned this years ago) does not recognize a specific grandparents rights statute- but allows the presumption for “fit parents” to decide.
B
Back to Topher.. he did not seek out the mother he’d not seen since age 2 until his father and stepmother severed ties and put him out.. That is a bad predictor for what kiara may have to do to get father and stepmother to put her out so she feels free and motivated to find mother. Onehopes she does not have to act out to that extent to break free of kaine’s control.
Great question TRuth. When the Horman’s arrived at school after learning Kyron didn’t get off the bus, they were with the secretary and in concert called the cops. So, me as a parent in their shoes would have been going thru that school and asking my own questions of anyone still left there. I assume the cops shut it down. I am inclined to think she learned of it very early on, and I assume the secretary was going around the school looking for him and anyone knowing his whereabouts after she received the bus drivers call and before the Horman’s arrived. But that’s just a guess of course.
T. Ruth says:
June 11, 2017 at 11:37 am
snip>
Who told TMH that Kyron was seen with some unknown male chaperone?
erose- to my knowledge it was not known until multiple witness accounts were corroborated that Kyron was last seen with SZ and where that exchange between them took place. Susan Hall would not have known at that point. As I mentioned to T. Ruth in response to her very excellent question initially- it is my understanding LE has never directly mentioned SZ and the circumstances involving Kyron’s disappearance to TMH- TMH learned it here. I will say through LE line of questioning and the RSE sting it is probable TMH surmised there was a male “suspect” involved potentially, but the specifics of SZ were never told to her. I could see the initial basis for withholding that from a potential suspect, but once it was patently clear not only could they “not” identify this dude, but TMH had no external communications or devices to communicate that did not track to any unidentified persons, etc. As you know Kaine refused to even acknowledge this until about 2 years ago (anyone with a link please correct my timing if necessary) and when he did he flat out admitted “there is is someone involved who’s identity LE does not know- that’s where the focus needs to be.”
Respectfully submitted, probably going to be the first and only time I agree with Kaine Horman about anything, and definitely re Kyron’s abduction.
MCSO and the MCDA believed then and believe now TMH was working in concert with SZ in Kyron’s abduction. As an indicator of info that was withheld, or not vetted by media for unknown reasons, the statement that Kyron never made it back to class (his homeroom/Porter) is false. If you recall Staton’s early comments that Kyron was seen later than they originally believed he had been, thus changing the timeline- it is my belief he was relying on that information to make that statement. Further, I believe this was the start of his concern whether his dept was “headed in the right direction”
To the degree that I am willing to give MCSO a pass on the issue of NOT announcing SZ- I can see the reasoning as at that point they are now investigating all males they knew were in attendance, and trying to figure out who SZ was. That said, once they realized not only can they NOT identify SZ, they cannot tie their defacto suspect to him by any means, did it make sense to protect the public by informing them? Of course it did.
Lastly- something to ponder. The absolute and unequivocal truth here is that the ONLY way le can even assert that there was a crime committed to this child in the first place is through the multiple witness accounts of SZ- specifically I am referring to Kyron walking out of the school with him. (under guise of request to help get something from his truck)
Without that, there is no way for MCSO or the MCDA to assert a crime was committed (and they have) over say, Kyron just leaving the campus and walking off into the woods to his peril.
B
Yes, and we know there were users in other nearby departments, so while the steroid use may have not been directly involved in Kyron’s disappearance it affected the way things were handled. At least that is where I have evolved on that issue.
Kyron seems to have gone missing in the midst of a dysfunctional household, dysfunctional school and dysfunctional LE. Three strikes, no safety net.
Rose says:
June 11, 2017 at 10:46 am
if there were steroid users in mcso’s ranks in 2010,
the agency has every reason not to give
the investigation away to the fbi.
Just to add- Kaine’s involvement in steroid purchase and use as well as that of some of his associates became known to the DEA in April 2009. I know through non-public court testimony that Kaine claims he had no knowledge TMH was behind that, but I personally do not buy that claim. Jmo though.
B
TRuth, I also wonder if another parent told TH, maybe people were calling her with input before they spoke with LE and were given the impression she was involved. It wasn’t really known school-wide until Monday as it was believed
If so “As far as seeing Kiara, it is my understanding that they have made dozens of requests to see her through the appropriate channels and Kaine has denied them all. ” then imo
what a wicked wicked character–to his daughter.
If I were the cps worker and this had been a case at the time,
imo such behavior to “attached” grandparents would go in the
“neglect” or “emotional abuse” of a 2 yo category.
I’d be dogging whether he scheduled and he, not caregiver,
kept doctor’s visits, and scrutininzing who he moved in as
caregiver (unstable by hx at that
time,, 2 daus with needing special care herself),
whether a teen with med issues
was his sitter when he went out with caregiver, and so on.
So then he opened the door to James to visit for a specific purpose–and not just to
hand him a couple grownup beers.
Yup- to be supportive of his upcoming deposition at the time. Yeah. It was like that.
B
If Kaine and associates were known to DEA in Apr 2009, and Terri was the known reporter, imo DEA briefed area drug task force LE to include members of Clackamus and Muktnomah Sheriffs and PPB. There are cooperating drug task forces. It seems only sensible some associated deputy, or dea agent, dispatched an informal informant he had something on to “get close” to Terri, aka Rudy, to play that known user home out to see who Horman’s associates and suppliers were.
It’s no wonder Staton lost faith in all his top command and chief deputies, look at this case. He just didn’t know what to do with that judgment, who could save him, felt boxed in, and handled it tempermentally and unstably. Doesn’t mean his assessment of Under and Chief Deputies was incorrect.
imo the opportunistic SZ knew that door, that elderly teacher, and his egress plan. maybe only formulated it after Sci Fair was announced outfront. Probably dropped in with a “delivery” once before to scoop out security. Despite the door’s convenience, even if age-precerence targeting, who’d have planned a kindergarten room would be likely to have an unattached child at that time of day at that event? More likely a 3rd-8th grader whose parents were jaded about these events. He apparent struck early vis a vis “tour time” to allow ample time to get away.
It seems to methere’s a great case Billie Bell and the Court of Kantor never acted in good father to reunite kitty and her mother. Did TH failed to pursue the Stipulation was implemented in bad faith for mere lack of $? If so, why not go to a U legal clinic? a legal clinic for the poor? get a Court appointed attorney? Something? Go to the local Innocence Project for advice? Why walk away to Calif?
Great question.
B
With it being reported that Kyron was kind of shy, withdrawn, and timid, would he have been “excited” or even interested in helping a stranger bring something in from his truck? Makes me think Kyron knew of SZ, or had seen him around – which takes me away from someone just walking in off the streets from seeing a sign.
Right, I wouldn’t have expected that account to have come out early on. I wondered if the chaperon story did come out within the first days before Terri was frozen out. For example, Hall is going around the school asking who saw Kyron, I mean RED ALERT people, we lost a kid. She was probably calling Porter (if Porter had left) and calling the math teacher, Keefer and anyone else who was directly responsible for his whereabouts.
Maybe someone said to Terri that they saw him with a chaperon and two girls…or one of the parents who was not going to be interviewed until Sunday, and not wanting to wait, called Terri and said I saw…or my kid just told me… With the chaos and panic setting in, I think initially people would offer up what ever they had with their guards down, before LE and the lawyers shut them down.
Blink, You are saying TH learned of SZ here, on your site, so without going back, that was several months in, and that chaperon story came out significantly earlier, so I believe someone told her not about SZ exactly, but gave her that information. Otherwise, she made it up and I don’t see why even a guilty person would put a false story out there, unless directed by LE.
Now when you say SZ didn’t come out until multiple witnesses accounts corroborated that Kyron left with SZ, I assume that was thru LE, but I am saying maybe one of those witnesses talked with TH early on and that is how she knew about the chaperon and three girls.
erose says:
June 12, 2017 at 1:48 am
snip>
erose- to my knowledge it was not known until multiple witness accounts were corroborated that Kyron was last seen with SZ and where that exchange between them took place.
Guess who we are talking about again, lol? Plaid shirt in photo guy v SZ. Two different people as I understand it. However, I do know (like most- remember Sam Adams tweet) they were referring to him without knowledge of sz. I can’t say when or how they realized that though- if it is enough to confuse a few to this day- I have to think in that setting it was worse.
Gasp! So when TH said g’bye, Kyron went into that classroom, and what no adults were there, so he was able to leave? And to pin that on TH all this time is once again shameful. Under the guise of withholding investigatory information LE was able to make TH look (in some people’s eyes) negligent for leaving her child in the hall?
snip>
As an indicator of info that was withheld, or not vetted by media for unknown reasons, the statement that Kyron never made it back to class (his homeroom/Porter) is false.
I am not in a position to discuss who the witnesses may have been (children v adult) but it was both (kids/adults) and yes- LE well aware.
B
father = faith, what a slip…
@Blink. do fbi investigators, or some sheriff depts, ever apply gaming theory to child stranger abductions like say military colleges do in continuing ed training with war game scenarios in order to advance investigative leads? Seems to me it would be valuable. ie wrt kyron, one “game” could play out a neighbor predator in a 5 mi radius who regularly drove by “the SF sign.” Another a nonPPS employee, but a contactor or sub. Another a subsidiary sanctioned visiting instructor–private science one offs, Bonneville “educator,” visiting reading teachers employed bythat Eldon wife’s business, etc. Volunteers in classrooms, parents or not. Parents. seems to me each “actor” type posits a differing unfolding of the abduction and might suggest new leads.
As a rule, unless it tracks with a component of the case in some way, no. If you mean overall hypothetical prove excercises, then yes, but it has to be done correctly. I am trained to literally disprove my own theory (if possible) before I could even call it a theory.
B
I want to know what Terri knows about R Neil and his progeny and step parenting style (ie 2 stepsons took his last name) and kristi’s role vis a vis neil and her sons. and who abused kristian. if you ever reinterview and are positioned to publish.
” but allows the presumption for “fit parents” to decide. B.”
A competent attorney has enough facts to handle
that if Terri had Snitzer’s $.
If the steroid ring, for lack of a better term was trying to exact revenge on TH, then why would they take KH’s son, even if they thought TH was bio-mom? If the steroid ring was involved then I have to think KH pissed them off. Did KH “talk” to the cops in ’09?
erose says:
June 12, 2017 at 1:57 am
snip>
Just to add- Kaine’s involvement in steroid purchase and use as well as that of some of his associates became known to the DEA in April 2009. I know through non-public court testimony that Kaine claims he had no knowledge TMH was behind that, but I personally do not buy that claim. Jmo though.
B
I cannot say with certainty, only my suspicion- it would be the DEA M.O.
B
@erose. rather than exact revenge on tattler TH, I suggest “steroid associates & dealors” motivation woukd be to warn KH off flipping on/naming names, that is, preventative frightening. A reason for his gun practice and new Xmas gift to self gun (per Kristin’s dau #2).
re Rose says:
June 12, 2017 at 10:17 am
Well, I’d like to see her answer it. But,
Many women in her shoes, without money or a job,
with authoritarian, mysogynistic, emotionally abusive husbands, have found
they could only walk away and try to support themselves if children
were left behind with The Controller. She is hardly unique in that. But so sad all those liberated
women reporters and righteous do gooders like Eldon’s wife never checked Terri’s circumstances
or veracity out or publically cared.
Kaine had James to his and Kristin’s home to integrate with kiara and Kristkn’s 2 girls, and see his old home space–the latter opportunity very seductive to a young man in transition–just prior to ****JAMES’ **** depo in the Desiree case? Why would kaine involve himself in Desiree’s legal matters? He was not a party. or did James give a depo in the divorce matter? Either way, imo sounds like sociopathic opportunism, exploiting an unthethered older teen on K’s part imo. James for whatever reason had had adjustment difficulties in his home, and in school, and imo was easy prey for an authoritarian “father” from his past.
So, in theory, KH talks to DEA and local cops exact revenge.
It’s just off to me that he seemed so simpatico with MCSO, against TH.
As I recall the ongoing investigation involved cooperating LE who had a level of immunity but it was discovered through the investigation which was led by the FBI (FBI will always have lead in corruption cases) they were mitigating their role (likely entitling them to the immunity in the first place) and when called out, refused to continue. At that juncture, which occurs June 2-June 3rd 2010, wheels went to motion to arrest and file Federal charges. I can’t say if that investigation was directly tied to the DEA visiting Kaine Horman in April 2009. I can say the subsequent one, circa 2012/2013 was a direct result of information gleaned from the disollution case (or before, but Kaine was deposed)
B
Blink, Plaid shirt guy, that makes sense. Do you know, if you can say, how and when TH became aware of him? That is the story she was told by someone, and as you say a layer of confusion ensued because he was not SZ.
I only know that it corresponds to an email to a friend or post she made publicly on FB, I can’t recall if it was one of those or both and I am also not sure looking at my notes that she is- LE had access to her laptop and FB immediately and she was running anything and everything past detectives (she did actually post that in response to a question from a FB friend- that “she would check with a det” and get back to them).
To sharpen the point though- plaid shirt guy is not SZ and at no time has LE ever told TMH the circumstances that were witnessed re Kyron and SZ,according to her, and from independent sources that had direct info. To my knowledge, both she and her counsel first read it here. My source (s) were interviewed multiple times by the MCSO, FBI and iirc, task force members. A few testified in depositions and may have testified before the gj- I suspect this is why eventually Kaine admits to SZ publicly. He presumed it was only a matter of time before an intrepid reporter had what they needed to refute his own knowledge- so there’s that.
B
I thot the public focused on plaid
shirt bcz Adams tweeted. and he was
in Porter’s room.
I think that’s true, but efforts to id him once the pic was published occurred on the ground- that rumor mill is powerful.
B
If this is true, seems strange the former Skyline
sped teacher & wife moved to Vancouver & he
teaches there after 7 years in the OR PERS system.
http://www.wweek.com/news/2017/06/12/new-study-shows-teachers-compensation-significantly-higher-in-portland-than-boise-or-vancouver-wash/
T. Ruth says:
June 11, 2017 at 11:37 am
snip>
Who told TMH that Kyron was seen with some unknown male chaperone?
I cant answer that outside of any comments I have already made T.Ruth, sorry. I would categorize that piece of information as largely withheld, even from some investigators with the original task force.
B
*************************
So, I am assuming that when you say “that piece of information” you are speaking of the identification of the witness who told TMH about the chaperone? Not that they were never told she was given it?
Why would that information be withheld from the task force? ( There was more than one task force assembled? ) Wouldn’t the task force want interview said witness?
Male chaperone initially unidentified reference= plaid shirt guy with 2 girls in pic. Yes, by some means this got back to her. She does not recall how, but to her knowledge she was told he was id’d as a grandfather of a student.
SZ= different guy, not a chaperone or volunteer, as yet unidentified last seen with Ky, she has never been told about his existence by LE.
B