CAYLEE/CASEY ANTHONY CASE: GEORGE AND CINDY FACING CRIMINAL COMPLAINT IN CAYLEE MEMORIAL SITE “STING”
The
Orlando, FL– It would seem the denial of the removal of items from the makeshift memorial site where the remains of Caylee Marie Anthony were found, by her grandparents, George and Cindy Anthony was, well, caca.
On Monday evening, when two women attempted to replace the cross that was recently removed, they were stunned to see a woman appear out of the shadows and place the cross in a dark colored vehicle. As that vehicle left the scene, one of the women snapped a picture of the driver.
Apparently the maneuvers George Anthony had been practicing mentally from his earlier (since abandoned) recount about a high speed chase with his daughter Casey did not fail him.
Witnesses from the scene, who declined to be identified, said Anthony nearly had the “Georginator” on 2 wheels as he pulled a “360” to ensue hot pursuit of the ferocious flashing females. One woman stated she actually saw George’s silver signature pompadour part as they whizzed past on their creepy cross caper.
As the women attempted to leave the scene, footage in tow, the glare of flashing “strobe” lights in their rear view mirror granted them a brief sigh of relief that perhaps an OCSO patrolman had intervened. This moment was short lived however, when the women formerly on friendly terms with the Anthony’s, recognized the figure in the night vision goggles flashing his big boy lights behind them was none other than Dennis Milstead. (editors note: This dude was convicted for impersonating a police officer peeps, I chit you not.)
At this point in the dangerous drama, whereby speeds reportedly reached in excess of 23 MPH; The Femme Flashalists were cornered in front of a gated community.
Dennis and Sherri Milstead, convicted felons and founders of KidFinders Network were on the left. Platinum Frequent Flyer Patrons and Ritz Carlton crab puff officianados George and Cindy Anthony on the right.
Dennis Milstead, still wearing his Sonnys bib from his earlier slather platter feast (hold the salt) got out first according to witness accounts.
When his spurs hit the asphault, you could hear a pin drop.
“It’s Five-O Bitches” Hand it Over or else I’m takin yuins In.”
Cindy Anthony gets out of the car next, she is wearing the newly designed for the Scamthony foundation; shamrock lanyard with miniature hammer amulet. She shakes her bottled water at them.
“If you maggots wanna do something for our grandaughter, you can PURCHASE one of our Limited Edition, for discarded baby remains only, life-like crosses from our foundation, dedicated to finding missing kids like Caylee. Pre-market price of $19.95, comes with a shamwow.”
Milstead is heard to respond:
“Whoa, that was not the plan. How the French are we going to get our house off the auction block on June 25th if you give that thing away? I’m not gonna keep humpin that damn sign all over and besides, you better remember who has copies of the transactions from the first 4 days of your OTHER “Foundation”.
With that, a curiously familiar looking man with a black cowboy hat appeared on a white horse from the tendrils of the night.
YO! Ladies, just turn around. They are in front of you, not in back, just put your car in reverse. I just bought this Gen U Wine rattler belt and if I have to use it to open a can in these here parts, I reckon I’ll call Rob down here and we’ll get to tusselin’ . Would not be the first time I proved Orlawn do is not big enough for the both of us.
The ladies thanked Leonard and indeed backed out of the jaws of peril.
When they asked Leonard when they would see him again, he replied:
“Thanks to you, probably tomorrow night on Nancy Grace.”
And with a tip of his hat and an “Evenin Ma’am”, he was gone.
Lois Peter and Denise Hill, called 911 but hung up when they spotted a FHP Officer.
Officer Richard Cain’s cousin told them all to “Go Home, that cross has been there for months, you can see roots growing through it, and I saw a snake behind you.” The officer was still spotted this morning not completing his report of the incident, prompting the Diva Detective Squad to file a report with the Orange County Sheriff’s Office yesterday morning.
The Orange County Sheriff’s Office has confirmed they are currently investigating the complaint filed by the women.
The Big Man upstairs is investigating the people that will keep the ashes of their grandchild in a box while they steal and destroy gifts and crosses left on private property in memorium of Caylee Marie Anthony.
Red Ranger contributed to the research of this article
Image courtesy of Klaasend
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When this is all said and done, Blink will have so much to tell us. Another Dana Pretzer interview with Ms. Blink, would then be something for us as Blink readers to look forward to.
kleat,thanks for the cindy logic validation,fallacies,yep.(i cant get to my old logic text,too buried in storage),and do you have an idea who the camera person is on caylees strange breakfast?,who posted it?has child custody agents seen it?that was truly creepy,you can see the dark knowing in her how her expression changes,BEINGS(the soul)(especially children and small animals)(like how they say children and pets can sense ghosts(spirit)),know when someone has a strange, vibe towards them.you can the see the dark knowledge register on her face,when the person went south with the camera.
Susan, what strange breakfast pic are you referring to? I feel out of the loop :S
June Bug, it’s s video and really easy to find on YouTube, just Google ‘Caylee Breakfast youtube’ and you’ll come up with it. Here’s one link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=807kMNkVl0k
Pay attention to the video at around the 30 second mark, to about 35 secs after you have watched it through once.
susan, yeah– date (how old was Caylee), who was behind the camera (woman’s voice if that’s original to the recording), what else is on the video before and after, and what is going on? Albatross234 has a commentary on it, you can find that at YouTube too by searching back in that library of videos.
It is strange.
Fairwitness: You sound like a very nice lady. It’s always good to try an understand BOTH sides, and perhaps understand more of the WHYS of a situation. I applaud you..
Personally, I think Cindy feels a HUGE amount of guilt for CHOKING, and screaming at Casey, which in turn, caused Casey to to grab Caylee and leave in a RAGE. In my opinion, and it will never change, the A.s have known about Caylee’s from the first time they smelled the decomp. That’s when they started doing everything possible to get LE to believe that a “Zanny, or someone else, took her.” Cindy knows that if she had not choked, threatened, and screamed at Casey, she would nevr had left. Cindy, on some level, feels tremendous GUILT. Thus, her irrational, pathetic, and lying behavior. JUST MY OPINION. Stay the sweet lady you are.
Meant to say : Cylee’s death. (Granny: Don’t get me! haha I still think you are a sweetie, and truly FEEL HORRIBLE, and ashamed of my tacky remarks. (A lesson LEARNED…I promise.)
Kleat: I looked at video, and must have missed something. The ONLY thing that “could” be a little strange was something that appeared to be little “white pills”….however, I don’t think that’s what you are referring to. Shall I just “keep guessing”…?
I haven’t seen this video before…oh my!! My heart is breaking all over again!! Please, Dear God, bring swift justice for this precious baby. Thank you God, for hearing my (and America’s) prayers for this innocent baby. Amen
Neither can I see anything so eerie and strange with that breakfast video of Caylee eating toast and drinking from her sippee cup. I guess I am a poor detective and not very observant. Possibly old ages and the trifocals,
Maybe someone can explain what some of us are missing.
Felicity you can be awesome! Caylee’s indeed!
All is forgiven and forgotten.
checking..think I have been “removed”…
well, there’s no talking by the adult to the baby, no peek-a-boo, but there is what sounds like I kill… and then at about 30 seconds mark to 35, you can here a woman’s voice say ‘kill’. And the camera goes under the high chair, still quiet, why would it go there except to play a hide-seek game, but no interaction between the camera person and the baby.
Does the baby say ‘I kill Jesse’?? Don’t know– Was this video taken around the time Casey and Jesse broke up? Strange…
you have to listen closely
I must say this, and I will HUSH…I still think Casey was planning to murder Caylee at some time… how else do you explain her trying to get so much info. about chlorprome, neck breaking etc…before she murdered her…her rage just reached the breaking point the night Cindy choked her.
I looked at Strange Breakfast a few times and though it is a bit strange, it’s not a red flag for me (Cindyism – red flag). I am guessing it’s Casey with the camera, she loved to record. Just experimenting with filming, interacting with but not directing the subject. Caylee is alternately chatty and mute. I don’t hear anyone but Caylee. I’d bet a lot that George is not the filmer; it’s too subtile.
Caylee just looks relaxed to me. She is being gently teased by the videographer and knows it. I think the grave looks she sometimes shows is just teasing right back at ya. Some kids have a sense of irony even at such a young age. I don’t get a salacious feeling about it.
She looks significantly younger then when we first met and last saw her. (This last sentence was sad to say.) Her hair in this breakfast video is fine in that babyish way. By the time she was almost 3, her hair was thicker.
felicity,im confused,you say the only strange is some little white pills but then you say,i havent seen this before oh my!!! my heart is …!!do you concur ?(i just wonder if my imagination is imaginating.)even though i know its not)
Annals, there is definitely an adult female voice saying a single word– maybe there’s a difference in computer speakers, it’s clear, you have to rerun the section just before half minute mark. She’s been getting Caylee to say some words for sure. The ‘little white pills’ are toast crumbs. It’s not a male photographer.
Felicity you have an eagle eye. There definitely are 2 or 3 small white pills on that highchair tray. Odd thing to find there unless the baby was to take those pills and this was a clever way to get her to take them. I wouldn’t recommend teaching a child to pick up pills and ingest them any time they are encountered though.
?????????
Morning Susan. I racked my brain to discover what was being talked about. I’m usually very observant if I make a real effort. However, the only thing that really caught my eye was the “tiny white, pill-like things on her little tray, and how much younger she appeared to be. Her hair was alot less thick, so I think it was many months before her death. The really sick part of this, to me, is all this time Casey was making plans to kill this precious child. (neck breaking etc….)
All the psychiatrist that I observed on television say that she is a sociopath, and felt that all of parents love was now directed toward Caylee. Casey wanted the love, money, and attention that Caylee was receiving. She wanted to party, and resented having to watch Caylee. Her RAGE hit the fan the night Cindy screamed at her, and choked her. That was truly HER BREAKING POINT IMO. That is what is also causing Cindy GREAT GUILT…in her heart she knows this. Thus, all the cover ups. The A’s have known the truth since the first time they smelled the decomp…at least on some level. IMO.
parent’s love…..(ck. it out, sweet Granny.. wish I had your knowledge, I am really lacking. I’m proud of you, and just hope that you are resting well. I’m sure teaching must be very tiring at times; but bet you are a great teacher! (My passion in life is Art…I really want to get back to it one of these ays.) Hope you have a restful day.
Felicity
Regarding the Breakfast Video. If someone was good with the technology, they could pause the video onto 2:05 seconds and zoom in to ‘see’ the reflection of the videographer in Caylee’s eyes. I can do all but figure out how to zoom in on the frame.
I don’t really think there is anything to this film, though. It seems that someone who is enthralled with Caylee is just enjoying her as she playfully eats at her high chair. I recall this same kind of ‘just watching’ with my own children as babies.
Granny– pills… I have to get a magnifying glass out and check now!!! I thought they were all crumbs…
You are right, you don’t leave pills down for a child to pick up to learn to take them– that makes no sense, you can’t tell if the child that age would drop it onto the floor and become lost, or take the pill. It makes no sense (but what in this whole saga does).
ros, but what about the spoken adult word ‘kill’?? That’s not normal to teach a child, if it is original to the video.
If you put the marker to 31 seconds, play through 33 over a few times, it’s ‘I kill’ and with the ‘kill’ there is a hitting sound as if something is being slapped down or hit as the adult says the word ‘kill’. Didn’t notice the slap/hit sound until now.
The baby follows this with ‘essss–eeeeee’
Can’t tell crumbs from pills though. Could be something else there besides bread, can’t see that well enough.
Kleat, cranked up my speakers and listened again and again. Now, all I can hear adult voice say is “I kill”…..you’re right it is weird.
Nothing about this case is normal.
Perhaps, I mistakenly apply judgement from my own (normal) life experiences to their lives.
June Bug, it’s s video and really easy to find on YouTube, just Google ‘Caylee Breakfast youtube’ and you’ll come up with it. Here’s one link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=807kMNkVl0k
Thank you for sharing Kleat!
yeah, if the woman’s voice is teaching the baby to say ‘I kill Jesse’… notice Caylee finishes the phrase ‘I kill… ‘ with a different word that sounds like Jesse. The playful camera doesn’t fit with the ‘kill’ idea… it’s surely no innocent sing-song rhyme.
I have to wonder if she and Jesse just broke up at this point (again). And if she ever showed this to Jesse? Maybe seeds were being planted early on, to set Jesse up for what has happened to the baby. Maybe he was her target all along and Cindy got word of that and put out the idea to the media (FBI first, media second, LE last if at all) about the suspicious friends, R, A, and J.
I saw a composite of videos of Caylee at different ages, with a Christmas video included where she was singing the three notes of Jingle-Bells just like in the breakfast video, it could have been from around the same time, but couldn’t tell by appearance, size or hair length. One of the younger videos where Caylee was being encouraged to walk to Cindy, Cindy said ‘come here Case’ but did not correct herself.
thanks for the reply, Kleat. Later I did hear the word kill. As per the “pills”; I’m guessing they’re Cherios.
Blink, do you believe that the error in date of the baby going ‘missing’ and the excuse (started by Lee? in the LE interview) that Casey used June 8th as the date because she heard her mother say that date and just repeated it, is the ‘simple truth’? Just an innocent mistake? Or is there more to it– if your child, or grandchild that you live with and care for as your own, leaves the home and is not seen for a month, whereabouts unknown but for the stories of someone you know tells lies, and you don’t remember the last day you saw ‘that child’? It’s just like not remembering the last name of the father– if it was told to the family one time, that would stick with them, period.
Was the date changed to a week earlier for some reason, to hide something? Like the baby ‘gone’ on Father’s Day– and any theory of significance to that? Not if the father died in a car accident, or moved to Italy. But what if the two dates were significant to Casey– Father’s Day (child gone)… Child’s 3rd birthday and Cindy’s past role as ‘mommy’ at the birthday party (child is to return but does not).
If Casey planned the homicide well in advance to occur on a significant date, such as June 15th, Father’s Day, then hiding that significant date might be important, and the video at the Mt. Dora screwed things up.
I am no longer buying the innocent explanation, now that we see more of what Cindy and George have been doing all along– we bought the story when we thought these were simply grieving grandparents in huge denial and wearing rosey glasses on top of it.
‘IF’ Casey is not only a sociopath, but has been the victim of incest, this would explain a possible significance to June 15th, and to Caylee’s birthdate– the day the problems all really began for Casey.
It was the missing 31 days she stated, without calculating that out, and then she heard Cindy ref 6/9.
I believe Lee’s account, yes. However, I have said from day one Caylee died late eve the 15th, early am the 16th. George never saw them leave as he said.
B
Or if not incest, could simply be significant as an expression of ultimate anger towards George, Casey’s father, and to Cindy, who first held Caylee on the day she was born (before Casey) and who controlled the party for Caylee to the point where Casey was again, jealous. Maybe Jesse messed everything up with his paternity test so they didn’t live happily ever after as a family because he opened up the question of an unknown father and that would not do for Casey, he needed to ‘believe’ he was the father, believe the lie. If Jesse had accepted his paternity of the child without checking, the secret of who is the father would never had needed an alternate explanation. Maybe that’s why the anger towards Jesse, why Casey tells her family she does not trust him after she is arrested.
One other thing that has bothered me in the family scenario, is the lack of any videos, photos, of Caylee with little friends her own age. None, not even at her birthday party. Only ‘pretend’ friends, like Zack or the little girl daughter of the pretend work collegue, or the children of the pretend nanny. Was this the same for Casey when she was young I wonder and why in the videos, does Casey not interact with her baby, just watches her (and more than the breakfast one, there are others). Unless Casey is in the picture, then she is interactive with the baby and camera.
I so agree with Blink…She died late the night of the 15th.
No man knows what 2 woman have on 31 days prior.
Heck, if You ask a man now face to face what he is wearing…he will have to look down..LOL
His 2 biggest lies: the recount of the 16th and the gas can account of 6/24.
B
Blink…I have always said..NO WAY…did she open that trunk with him feet away and he didn’t smell a decomposed body..Heck, the neighbors probably got a whiff.
I think that is the day he put the Amscot car stealing plan into action..That didn’t work!
Blink…I too think the story of the 16th is a LIE but what about his (george) account of the gas cans 6/24?? Maybe i missed something??
I dont believe he saw Casey that day. I never did. The 24th is one of the most important dates in the case. If you review that date against witness statements..
B
George folded on the question by M&M of the last time he saw Caylee. Note about the ‘gas cans’ theft– Cindy answered the question ‘to the media’ long ago about the shovel and why Casey would borrow one from a neighbour. Cindy’s answer was lengthy and went into detail of all Casey’s reason’s for borrowing a shovel– 1. bamboo and 2. locked yard shed and that home safety was their big thing for that child (bamboo and locked shed included). Cindy went into so much length she had to be nervous about the answer and kept making the argument for what must have been Casey’s reasons for needing the shovel. In her ‘over explaining’, Cindy didn’t realize she was saying that she and George, as homeowners and parents, do not trust Casey to know where they keep the well-hidden key to the shed. Why on earth??? Casey is an adult and was a wonderful and excellent mother and cared so much, that she, from her ‘holiday’ or ‘bonding time’ or ‘work time’ while away in June, came back to cut a piece of bamboo out of the back yard, even if she saw it when Caylee was not playing in the back yard.
So, back to the gas cans– was the reason the keys were kept well hidden away from Casey because she was already in the habit of stealing gas from the cans?? Morgan probably already has ideas on this too as it goes to George knowing first hand about this theft from ‘him’. Did the discovery of the broken lock when Cindy was not home, allow George to take the step to report the incident to the police, knowing that his own daughter might have taken them (stolen if she was not allowed to have a key and broke the lock)? Would George ever have made the call to police if Cindy was there to stop him? (let’s wait until we talk to Casey to get her side of the story).
Ok, homework on 24th time. I seem to recall that the 24th was a date of a call from Casey to Jesse and Jesse asked about Caylee and ‘heard’ Casey tell the baby to get down off the table, and he ‘thought’ he heard Caylee in the background, later could not be sure. That is important!
But the little breakfast video– or some other without adults or any other sounds in the background, could have been used to play in the background of a call. Or, Jesse just made a wishful connection to hearing the baby as he did so often before. He will get grilled over this one at trial.
In order for the family to have stories straight, they needed some huddle time before calling authorities. Cindy took time to think before acting by going back to work after finding the car at the tow yard. George was where? He drove the car home, then he wasn’t in the picture until Lee called him back. Why would George go anywhere? He took the battery out of the car so it wasn’t going anywhere again. Why take the battery out, did he think someone would steal the car from the garage when it was not stolen in plain view at Amscot with a wallet in view inside? Same as hiding the yard shed keys, they did not trust Casey.
I have a post by a member on another forum that was posted BEFORE Caylees Body was found..Approx Nov 10.
I don’t want to post anything Blink doesn’t want. But it does have some good clues.
You may post it as long as you give credit, its fine
B
How many surveillance videos cover the area surrounding the Amscot and it’s parking lot and what do they cover? Did Casey report her vehicle missing to anyone– no, because it wasn’t yet legitimately stolen by strangers. How would she know if this happened? Pings on cell phones show her going back and forth between the Amscot area and Tony’s house while the car was ‘parked’. She would have to have left enough gas in the car for it to be stolen and taken out of the area, but not taken too far away before being abandoned out of gas with unknown person’s fingerprints. Or better yet, Jesse or another of Casey’s targets could see her car and go try the doors.
Ok I will set the secenerio..
This was posted by Grand MaMa on ‘Where is We The jury” On topix..it was also sent to LP and LE on Nov 10.
If you go to the Jury site you will see this.
It is Spooky.
____________
where is “We The Jury”? – Topix
Grand Mama wrote:
Well she was thinking that after little girl didn’t wake up from the deep sleep she induced that she would take her home and make it look like a drowning. But then she came to her senses the little she has. And put baby in trash bags. 3 was in my dream. Used a flat tipped shovel not a pointed one three scoopes on each side in fact would look like an upside down triangle. If I am correct they should find the baby to the left of their home. 80 feet off the old road. Where there are some tree’s that hang down to the ground. Not heavy folage light. She placed her there and did not say a word.
I have told this to all my friends and family. I have been right more times than I have been wrong.
This dream was on July 20. I have never been to Florida and can not afford to go. I do believe in my heart that she is not far from the home.
If there is any body that is familiar with where they live is there an ond country road maybe 2 miles from their house. I have no way of knowing which direction the house sits. But if you were in their back yard you would go to the left to an angle to find the road.
I am sorry if I wrote too much but this has been bothering me for quite some time.
Thanks for reading. Have a Good Night.
May God Bless Our Little Angel
Trying to catch up on info from the 24th. I must be missing something because i am not sure why george would lie about seeing her on this date?? Also, I did read an interesting theory that during that call with Jesse on the 24th, Casey could have been telling the family cat “to get off the table”…after reading about this i have to agree that it does fit with Jesse probably “wishing” he had heard sweet Caylee. Can anyone help me fill in the ??’s for this date?
Thank You Blink for the post.
That scenario is spooky.
I guess LE and LP didn’t take it serious…TOOO bad it ended up being true.
The reason i ask for help from the fine folks here is that i just don’t trust alot of the information out there. I have found pretty much everyone on here to be accurate and truthful (especially Blink of course:) I can trust the information i find here so thanks…and i apologize if some of my questions seem silly.
RE BLINK QUOTE: “I dont believe he saw Casey that day. I never did. The 24th is one of the most important dates in the case. If you review that date against witness statements..”
B
HEY BLINK…O.K. SO, WHY WOULD GEORGINA LIE ABOUT SEEING CASEY ON THE 24TH ( IN ADDITION TO TELLING FBI AND LE THAT STORY WHICH LED TO CASEY’S BEING CHARGED WITH MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE?)? WHAT WOULD BE HIS MOTIVE??
THANKS J
To cover up for the fact that at the time of the statement he had his gas cans back. You wont find that anywhere.
He first admitted that during the FBI interview, thus why detectives drove him out to the house while Cindy was in another area of OCSO to retrieve them.
Something else that has been bothering me..If there was a big fight on June 15th (which i do believe took place) why would Casey cover that fight up, or not tell anyone about it?? Would she not think she could use that to help herself?? And if they all were in on covering that fight up, when would they have had time to discuss the “plan” of hiding that?? I do not think Casey, George or Cindy has admitted that fight ever took place. I think Lee may have mentioned it to someone but did not have details?? Just not sure why this would be kept so quiet by Casey??
Kleat, here’s video of Mark Fuhrman at the Amscot talking about the servalence cameras there. Hang in while watching; the video has him at the house first; Amscot later:
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3482557&referralPlaylistId=playlist
Bliiiink? You take a woman by surprise. And, my question is by no means a challenge to your theory. But, if Casey did not show at the house on the 24th and do the gas can dance with George, then how/when did he get them back? (After picking the car up at the tow pound?) We know from Tony L. that Casey took them, don’t we? Please tell.
Uh oh Annals- you did not do your homework… MMMUUUHHAA
WHO took the gas cans?? Not Casey.. Back to research you go.
Fondly,
B
Now I’m really flummixed. I remember reading a document (or was it a recording?) of a ride that Tony Lazarro took with LE in Oct, wherein he was trying to remember which route he and Casey took to the Anthonys’ house the day they broke into the shed for the cans. I just searched and I can’t find it now.
He was having a hard time remembering exactly the streets they took to get from the house to the Casey’s out-of-gas car. Then he described in detail how they (actually she) filled the tank and where he was standing etc. As I remember he said she put the empty cans into the trunk of her car when they were finished.
What did I miss?
No, wait I got a detail wrong. He did not have Casey with him when he went to help her that day. She had called him and asked for help and he drove to the Anthonys’ neighborhood and he found her on-foot picked her up and they went to the house and broke into the shed then drove to her car which was in the ‘hood.
Regardless, so who did take the cans?
OH my WHO? took the dang gas cans? Anyone? Blink! more clues please, I will not be able to sleep now.
I usually pick up on things like this and didnt even PAY ATTENTION as I didnt think I would HAVE to with gas cans.
Do ya think they were at AMSCOT? and George saw the car and got them there? I do believe he knows A LOT more than he is telling and I do believe it is about his lovely wifey.
He is REALLY protecting her for SOME REASON?
I don’t even think he was living at the house at this time as it would make sense why Cindy took Caylee for the day and the kids not being home for FATHERS DAY! this is a bigger deal than the media thinks. OH please let’s talk about this more please.
Thank you so much for this sooo informative spot.
I sure wish you would get a chat for this site. IT would be sooo awsome.
OH and please keep up the good work, I am REALLY paying attention now.. hehe (wink)
Re: psychic’s tips, I remember looking at the pages and pages and pages of tips LE got on this case where they were posted online and most of them seemed to be from psychics. All pointing in different directions. I felt sorry for LE having to sort through all of those and not miss something genuine in the midst of them and it makes me wonder if these kind of tips actually bog things down?