Caylee/Casey Anthony Case Bombshell: Proof George Anthony Lied
Orlando, FL– In a bombshell released in discovery today, evidence George Anthony could not have been telling the truth about June 16th.; allegedly the last time he saw Casey and Caylee leave:
According to the Investigative Report Excerpt regarding the Cell phone ping study, Casey did not leave the Anthony home until 4:14PM on June 16th. Not the 12:50PM time he told Investigators and recounted in several media interviews. Most recently, George refused to discuss the last time he saw his granddaughter Caylee during the deposition in the civil case against his daughter, lodged by Zenaida Gonzalez.
Given the previously released computer forensics, whereby we know Casey was on the home computer on an IM chat in the morning this supports the fact she was in the home, and as the calls begin on Casey’s cell, she is leaving the residence.
SO.. Could it be George who never came home the evening of June 15th? Did Casey leave her cell phone there the evening before and come back? Impossible. She was on it.
Message to Leonard: This makes one more.. LOL.. Told You.
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I still think George AND/OR Lee molested Casey in the past and that is what she has on them. (Somewhere she mentions the times Lee snuck into her bedroom and tried to “get with her” physically/sexually). I thought initially that Caylee’s (name is a combo of Casey and Lee) father could be Lee….I guess they ruled that out in paternity tests? Did they rule George out? And is George Casey’s bio father?
Respectfully Al, while your opinion is not alone, sans any evidence of it, I will not allow that speculation on here. There is really quite enough going on that is factual both directly and circumstantially. However, I would not be surprised if the defense ends up alledging that or something as equally disgusting.
B
PS: Using Clint’s post from above, it seems that we have
Casey pinned down to remaining within the MOST of 164 feet from the Anthony home until after 4pm. He used that as the highest end of a calculation. This on the day she states she left the baby at Sawgrass Apts…oh, wait she changed that to J.Blanchard right?
I did not realize kudzu was growing where the body was dumped. For those of you from up North it is an evil monster plant that overtakes trees, has large leaves, grows along the ground in twisted vines at the rate of ONE HALF INCH an hour…probably faster in the Florida area. I can bet meter readers will think twice about traipsing through there as a quick bathroom stop. Especially after seeing that rattle snake.
A rattle snake usually lives its life within a mile of its den. Where there is one, there are many. (They give live birth). They do den together in the winter months. Anyway, knowing that kudzu has overtaken that area is enough for me to understand why that plastic bag could lay there undetected for so long.
Oh, and going along with the George being Casey’s bio father question, is Lee Casey’s whole or half brother? I think all of this incest stuff ties in—this may be why they will lie for her, and also brings me back to when Cindy said “Did you say anything?” and Casey said “No, I didn’t say anything.” Deep family secret that cuts even deeper than Caylee’s death?? I just think it is interesting to look at the big picture.
#156 Julie
The YouTube video doesn’t sound correct and maybe a little doctored, IMO. I have always understood him to have said (and I saw it the day he said it to live feed)”Whoever’s in the trunk of my Granduaghters’ car is NOT my Grandaughter!” The video link you provided appears to have Georges’ lips moving but not matching the sound. I’m going to resist the humongous joke I could make here at his expense but it’s too late in the evening. Good night everyone. OT but if I ever get into trouble please call my DreamTeam; Blink, Red Ranger, Silverspnr, Maura, etc., and there are quite a few more that I wanted to name but I can’t hold my eyes open. Waiting see more brilliance from you guys tomorrow.
kccritic, about the ‘house’ to move into that Casey tells NYItaliano about, there’s quite a bit of Casey chat about that in the text messages too.
May 19th, Casey (it’s her birthday) says that her grandparents called and said that someone gave a verbal offer on the house which they would take, once it’s in writing. ( a verbal offer is worth the paper it’s written on!! But this way, Casey has an ‘out’ when the non-existent plan inevitably ‘falls through’)
Casey continues with her ‘story’ by texting “Well there suppose to make it in writing tomorrow, but nothing’s official until its written, if so the tentative move in date would be june 18th”
and then asks the friend she is texting– “If this happens, what r ur plans?”
May 20th, the talk about ‘house’ offer continues, and she discusses the travel arrangements for PR.
May 21st, Casey’s plans for looking at houses to live in continue and just as predictably, plans fail when she actually has an ‘appointment’ to go see a house with the friend she is talking to.
Casey makes her ‘flu’ and ‘bruised rib’ excuse to pull on the house viewing appointment. She comments on all the pills she will be popping for her problems. She took herself off to see the doctor– ‘stupid flu’! (which she later says she gave to Caylee, but Caylee didn’t have the rib problem at least)
(These are the days leading up to the infamous May 24, 2008 Z & A’s Excellent Adventure– a reminder, if nothing else, that should this Casey as ZG, she was, at this time, talking to Annie Downing, their friendship intact, not as some would want us to believe, as ‘over’)
No conclusions here, just a few pieces placed on the table, not many linked to other pieces yet, so many are kept in the box in the state prosecutor’s office still– to be doled out, bit by bit, and as I am learning, in a most jumbled manner to make the defense work for it’s supper.
Good Post Kleat, just want to point out Caseys Bday is March 19, not May.
Happy Birthday Caylee, who would have been 4 today, however.
B
#149 Todd
“Does anyone here believe George and Cindy should be in jail for their actions, or lack there of?”
i think i can say most of us do…however i asked this question to Blink and she gave me a great answer and it brought me great understanding, she said ” that LE needs their testimony more then they need to charge them” that makes sense to me, I do hope after this is all said and done they will charge them, or at least stop them in their tracks and completely expose their lies in an attempt to stop the unjust and sickening profitting off this lil angels murder. Hopefully the outcry from all of us and many others may make these gold diggers re-think publishing anything from the Anthony’s lying lips…unless it is a fiction novel or a self help book designed by and for the Anthony’s.
Happy birthday caylee. I hope you and your daddy have a wonderful day together.
Thanks Clint,
Without specifically answering my question, you still did. Casey never ventured to Sawgrass Apts, even @ 4-ish.
Where was she on Semoran and Aloma? A hotel, a parking lot? Was she with anyone? Did anyone witness her at the location sans Caylee?
If LE looked @ cell/ ping records for the “usual suspects”, then it can be proven that they weren’t anywhere near Casey at the time Caylee “disappeared”, thus the defense will have to revert to the theory of 1) an accident, 2) George or Cindy’s involvement, or 3) stranger abduction (which would not fly because of the Zany lie).
Thanks Gypsy DD,
Good point about NO calls or communication with the phantom nanny.
Hey…here’s my catch phrase for the prosecution:
IT WILL NOT FLY BECAUSE OF THE ZANY LIE!
sorry, I’m a little silly this AM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSoJ7xJseAw
aprox. 2 minutes in (Tony’s room mate) interview with LE. He tells how Casey told about George..abuse? Not sure as to just why she may have made this up to them or Tony?
I believe we as humans always display an ounce of truth whether it is audible or not. One huge factor that tells me the defense and the entire Anthony family knows that Casey is the guilty party is their actions, or lack thereof. Some of them refer to this case as “the fugitive”. Well, if I recall, the innocent fugitive actually tracked down the true culprit and proved his involvement. I see NOTHING from the Baez-Anthony camp that tells me they believe that anyone other than Casey did this. I know if I had no doubt of my innocence in the most serious of charges in first degree murder, I would be kicking, screaming, anything I could to show my innocence, be it that sitting in jail having “everything taken from me”(famous last words) in a wronged manner. If George, Cindy, Casey, and Baez truly believe that Casey is innocent, why aren’t they out there tracking “the real killer”, instead of going on talk shows promoting their fraudulent foundation, all the while staying at the Ritz Carlton and snacking on crab puffs? Sorry for the rant, your thoughts?
Jan, Post #165: “The evil create for those under their dominion a miniature sick society.’
This describes, in one sentence, my family under the reign of terror created by my stepmother. Wow, I am going to order this book, too!
Today is Caylee’s Birthday…I hope the trumphets are playing for her.
Question regarding the 16th. After the fight if KC went into her bedroom to sulk and GA showed up after that fight and heard from CA about the stealing from the Grandparents etc wouldn’t you think GA would have knocked on that bedroom door and demanded some answers. If he didn’t do it that night you mean to tell me the next day it was business as usual, he didn’t question her at all, wasn’t angry at all just completely dismissed what happened with the thefts?
I would think after KC stole her Mom’s credit cards and stole all that money on her shopping sprees that another theft like this would really infuriate a parent especially when the child is 21 yrs. old.
At the memorial for Caylee Cindy said she was blessed with 3 children. In the deposition she too said she posted her My Space for HER DAUGHTERS at aprox. 5:50-6:00 min in and she also says so Casey would be her FRIEND ? Was NO fight? ha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS6jlWogQR0&feature=channel page
Bottom line in the case against KC.
Guilty Guilty Guilty
Of Murder One!!
LWOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Justice for Caylee!!!!!!!!!!!
Re 184 — Actually, If you believe George’s story about when they left, it actually narrows the suspect list. By watching her cell pings, I believe they show that Casey was the only one who could have been in control of Caylee that day. I just bet that LE can prove that no other person she knows was near her that morning and afternoon. Therefore, if you believe George’s account, it had to have been either Casey or stranger abduction on her way to Tony’s apt. JMO.
…what if Caylee was still alive on the 16th sometime? Jesse said she called him and thought he heard still at that time Caylee in the background? Is it likely that the time her cell calls end for awhile on the 16th it happened……..she seemed frantic in a way to reach G&C that day….had her fund$$ been cut off too??? Maybe the calling from the home phone to Casey’s cell early morning on the 16th was to find the cell phone…in the home..I’ve done that??…….Maybe she never left on the 15th evening………it was Cindy who went somewhere to cool off for a bit……….?Does anyone believe that Cindy really had offered her the house at anytime? As she told Jesse and Amy????? Cindy would surely never admit it if true…….was perhaps the house used as a bargaining ‘chip’ for Caylee Cindy keeps Caylee-Casey keeps-house??????? at least until she found she had also stole off her grandfather too?????? If Caylee was home also on the 16th I rather doubt she could have drowned..as Casey would have just called 911………..?
I agree with post 186.
I don’t believe George intentionally lied. I am thinking that he just tried to recall the last time he saw Casey and Caylee leave the house. Then, he just decided it must have been the 16th.
If George wasn’t there on the 15th, Cindy and Casey had a “fight”, and Cindy left the house, it is possible that Casey killed Caylee that night, and neither Cindy nor George saw them at all on the 16th. Caylee could have already been dead by then. In the back yard, perhaps?
I don’t think they were “setting things up” from the beginning, because the 911 call that Cindy made saying “It smells like there’s been a dead body in the damn car!” was real.
George also went to the police WITHOUT Cindy or Lee knowing. He didn’t want them to know he was there. And during that interview, they asked him what he thought about the smell in the car, and he honestly replied that it smelled like a decomposing body, and you NEVER forget a smell like that. I believe at this point, he obviously KNEW, and he was telling the truth.
When all of these things were “released” and they realized how bad it looked for their daughter, that’s when the lies and cover-ups began. Because now they know that they will lose their daughter, too, and it will be their own comments that do her in.
I am sure that Cindy would love to take back that 911 call, and George would love to take back his initial interviews. But, they can’t. So, instead, they try to lie and cover things up, and explain that the smell was rotting pizza, etc. etc.
Because of all their lies, they are making people sick. Nobody has any respect for them at all, and they have lost all sympathy because of what they are doing.
But, I have to say….If you love someone, you love them. Even if you find out that they are a sociopath. Perhaps even if you realize that they killed their own daughter, your grandaughter. Who wants to see their own daughter put to death? I know I wouldn’t. Denial is a funny thing. If you don’t want to know something, and you don’t want to believe something, even if the truth is staring you right in the face, you WON’T let yourself believe it. You will try to find reasons and excuses to believe what you want to believe. They are trying to convince themselves with their lies, and they are trying to save their daughter.
I value your insight to this case as always, your a great contributor here. That said, we are going to agree to disagree on that one. I don’t discount the possibility that George may be recounting a different day, but in no way do I think he was simply mistaken about the date. We did not hear of any of this information until weeks after Casey’s arrest, and we all know Baez “lived” at the house while Casey was in the klink and once she was released we know they had “throwaway” phones. These people were coached by Baez until such time it became obvious to him he got all he needed out of them, and to secure a defense for his Client; which is HIS ONLY OBLIGATION in his dealings with them.
B
Blink…not that I feel the A’s will be charged with anything…but hypathetically speaking IF they were..IF…….prior to Casey’s trial…..would they not be able to plead the 5th or whatever at her trial? ….Because of charges they faced if that ever were to happen? So EVEN IF they ever faced ANY type of charge(s) would it not be AFTER the trial anyway for that reason?
Commet #204 Yes cindeefromwisconsin.
I would at least think the next morning he would have addressed the issue unless of course Cindy said she would take care of it or who knows what she told George I wonder why George was not asked more questions about that day. The 16th. I dont get that at all.
Here is an excerpt from an artical from a Dateline Producer in regards to a murder case posted in January of 2007. I just copied the part I thought was relevant.
Often, cell phone records are used in court to establish people’s movements. How? Well, what most people forget, with all that these devices do these days, is that cell phones are really just two-way radios, albeit sophisticated ones.
Cell phones are constantly communicating with a network, sending pings to the nearest transmission tower, which allows your calls to be routed correctly.
Multiple antennas are tracking your phone’s signal, since each tower only covers a few square miles. But, as you move, your call travels with you and is handed off to the base station receiving the strongest signal from your phone. The carrier keeps records of which towers the phone has contacted or pinged, and when. Which means a cell phone’s position over time can be tracked within a few hundred yards. In urban areas with many towers, a phone can be tracked almost to the block. And as most phones become equipped with GPS chips, they only need to be turned ON to pinpoint your location in real time!
It helped me to understand the movement of the pings.
There is NO reasonable doubt left regarding the nanny. I don’t care how many the defense has stated were residing all over FLA, NY or Puerto Rico, or if Cindy claimed that she had telephone numbers. THAT IS OVER…
Everyone (state & defense) will have Jesse’s cell records and pings. Were any released? I’d like to peruse them. I predict that it will show that he was no where near Casey on the 16th, the final and only day that Gaylee could have been kidnapped.
If the defense tries to show some kind of convoluted conspiracy that Jesse instructed someone else (an unknown) to kidnap Caylee, it’s going to look ridiculous. He (Baez) will pretty much have to prove it.
Remember, the defense has made it sound as though Jesse loved Caylee more than Casey. If that were the case, something would have happened to Casey, not the baby he adored.
Blink, are you ever going to post the pings and records of the 15th? OR….
Where can they be found?
could someone tell me why the presumed fight on the 15th of june is said to be about casey stealing money from shirley?just because she came from seeing her?(she sees her every weekend)iirc that incident was discoverd and confronted and dealt and done with(shirley on the phone with casey said thats the dumbest excuse ive ever heard dont speak to me again) in april.the way i thought it was is lee said their was that night to someone not sure who (leonard)who else,but i dont know (it that what baez is trying stop lp from testifying about?)imo,i dont think it was about stealing the dedicated acct money,which was the last money casey stole from cindy’s parents.unless someone can tell me otherwise.link?
Cindy was the only one to claim that the pool ladder was hooked back up and the side gate was open. Insinuating an “accident” maybe or insinuating that a “mysterious stranger was there”. George says Cindy called him to yell at him about it. I really have to wonder if it ever happened. They both never failed to bring it up in the media.
I’d bet my bippy they were advised by Baez to do that, dumbass move.
B
Thanks, Kleat. I too thought snakes only ate live prey (I thought you had to feed them live mice and stuff when you have them as pets) but I found a reference to a 1968 paper in the Journal of Herpetology tht talks about eastern diamondback rattlesnakes (like Kronk’s) feeding on carrion. Other articles I just found talk about how snakes use their keen sense of smell to find carrion, so I guess tho it was sort of overkill, it made sense to dissect the poor thing to take a look at the digestive tract. I was hoping that casey had run the thing over and left a tire track, but since the (huge, some say 6 1/2 foot) snake still had blood oozing from its mouth when they thawed it, it probably wasn’t run over nearly 2 months earlier, even if it took awhile to die.
Ok, I am done with the snake, but I do understand why Cain was hesitant to go look for the gray bag and skull. Kronk thinks he might have told him about the snake and/or showed him the picture on his cellphone just before Cain started his fearful and useless short trek into the woods.
Kleat-#167
In my post, I was highlighting George’s version of the July 15, 2008 timeline (taken from his July 24, 2008 interview with detectives), to emphasize that he told 3 different versions of how he says he learned that Caylee was “missing” from Cindy on the evening of July 15th. (Was she ON THE PHONE WITH 911, per the actual 911 recording?? Was she IN THE GARAGE–with the stinking car–crying when she told him, per his written statement on that same night?? Was she out of the house and on the driveway, pacing, saying “we lost her, we lost her”, to which George said, “Who?”, as per his July 24th interview with detectives??)
And yep. Lee’s got a different timeline/version for the calls, etc on July 15th.
And yep, you got it. George wants LE to think this was just another normal, routine day. He’s just simple-little-George, working security at the local mall movie theater. Tra-la-la. No MAJOR FAMILY CRISIS going on. “Nothin’ to see here, ya looky-loos!” I was just being a good, concerned husband, sending his son to check on his wife (as if C & G were not already suspicious before July 15th, and then convinced that something horrific had happened to Caylee as soon as they smelled the Pontiac at Johnson’s).
JWG-#186
Do you know what TRUTHFUL people say when asked the last time they saw their “missing”/”kidnapped” child/grandchild if they are unsure of the precise time?
They say that they believe the last time they saw the child/grandchild was X, but that is based on normal routine. They can’t totally be sure, for whatever reason (in this case, a truthful person would be able to explain his lack of certainty due to the fact that so much time has passed).
Most people cannot be certain down to the minute–as George is in his account. They think that’s when it was, but they cannot be certain (unless some major event coincided or they keep a detailed, daily journal about such minutia).
What did George say about last seeing Caylee at 10 minutes to 1pm on June 9th, 2008 (later changed to June 16th, 2008)??
He said he knew it “FOR A DOGGONE FACT”.
He didn’t even get the DATE right the first time, so how is it at all credible that he knows, “for a doggone fact” the precise time? We can see that Casey never had a regular/normal routine, as do those who work outside the home and have to be at the office by a certain time on a regular basis. (I’ll bet the REAL event planners who work at Universal can’t just show up whenever it suits them from day to day).
The Anthonys want the world to think that things were NORMAL in that house (insane asylum) and in that family (personality-disorder central). Here we ae only seeing how bizarre things truly were on June 15th/June 16th and on July 15th, not to mention Cindy being alone/depressed/suicidal on June 8th, 2008–her 50th b-day! (other than Lee stopping by for a few minutes to see her)
They were able to perpetuate this total myth to the outside world for a long time. But when you peek under their collective covers, you see that the place is crawling crazy with bed bugs.
They had a daughter who was obviously pretending to have a job for years, and they PERMITTED this to continue, all the while, she is stealing from them, and her crimes are ESCALATING (targeting not just the nuclear family, but now the extended family, grandmother’s check, and now her ailing, institutionalized grandfather).
They lie so much, because it is a WAY OF LIFE for them.
George was lying about the last time he saw Caylee alive, and he was lying about not knowing she was “missing” until he got to Hopespring (rushed to Hopespring) on July 15th.
I agree with Blink 100% that George is NOT the father. I also believe only that the defense will use this poss. a form of this (alledged abuse) by George. The 911 call with Cindy and Casey alone in the car unaware they were being taped as they were switched from the sheriff’s office to police or vice versa Cindy clearly tells Casey she will get custody ect.has all the paperwork/proof ect. of her thefts ect…and all Casey said was…no that is not the way she wants to play it she just wants 1 more day. End of George the father stuff…had their been a shred of truth to it that conversation between them would have sounded quite different I am sure unaware they were taped. She likely only told Tony to explain her distant relationship with her family we can be sure be positive she would not tell Tony that it was due to her spoiled behavior and theft ect…………
Happy Birthday Caylee Marie. Rest in peace little Angel. I wish my little Mary could have known you. You all are only 4 months apart and could have been best friends. I wish you had been given a chance at life. My heart breaks thinking of the things you went through. I hope you suffered no pain. Play with the other little ones who have been taken from us way to soon and so tragically as well. And give Baby Crissmis Noelle hugs from me. She was only 5 days old and never had a chance either.
Again, Happy Birthday Caylee. You are loved by so very many.
#109 silver. I guess I should have made myself more clear in my post about my thiinking geo was clueless. I’m with you on that geo was heavily involved in protecting casey on 7/15 but when I say he was clueless I was referring to what he didn’t know about cindy and lee’s knowledge prior to the 911 calls. He didn’t know about THEM.
Oh jeezlycrow how did I miss that. It was BAEZ who came up with the script (the zanny list) aahhhsooo that’s what he and casey were doing all those long hours in his office? Does he really think OSCO/FBI is that stupid? SHAME ON YOU
sorry…I am new at this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxXKC2GjZ4Q
right at the end. all Casey wants is to play some more at least 1 more day. That is it.
re:165 Jan, thank you for sharing. I plan to buy this book as soon as I get to Borders!
You know, I’ve also wondered why Lee never had a reaction to the fact that Cayse said that he tried to have sex with her….and when she tried to tell Cindy, Cindy didn’t believe her. I find that very strange.
That 911 call tells us a lot! If anyone had been also involved in this in any capacity she too unaware of the fact they were taped would have been screaming so to Cindy…perhaps to the effect of “well I will tell…blah blah blah…”…but NO she did not. Just sounds nervous…and wants 1 more day to play with her pals.Is ALL. That call was right after Cindy fetched her from Tony’s!
Adding strength to the notion that KC did not leave the home until ~4:15 PM on the 16th of June are two other critical pieces of information.
1) The EnCase computer timeline for the HP desktop computer shows heavy use 7-9AM (which we know consists of the IMing described above), 10AM-12PM (which we know includes the upload to Photobucket of the Fusian picture)and 2-3PM (after George leaves for work). There is also usage from 11PM to 12AM.
There are two accounts on the home computer:
* “casey” which is ironically used by George and Cindy (not KC) and is not password protected.
** “owner” which is used by KC and is password protected. The chat log for the morning IMs were recovered from the “owner” account, not the “casey” account.
Internet history for the “casey” account was included in the forensic data file last year, but not for the “owner” account. The internet history files for the user “casey” on the desktop only show activity from 11PM to 12AM on the 16th, and not earlier, indicating that George was on the computer in the evening, but not during the rest of the day. Therefore, the activity seen by EnCase had to be KC activity and no one else.
2) Phone records were released in April for George, Cindy, and the Anthony home (as well as a half a dozen others). Recall from KC’s cell records that George called her cell only twice: June 16 at 3:04 PM and July 8 at 9:05 AM.
The call on the 16th was short – 26 seconds – but it was rare enough for KC to allow it to interrupt her call with Jesse.
Why do I bring this up? A call to KC’s cell phone does not prove that George knew she was home.
Because checking both George’s phone records and the Anthony home phone we see he placed a call to the home phone one minute before he called KC’s cell. In other words, George expected KC to be home and to pick up the phone. There was something he needed to speak with her about briefly, and when she did not pick up he immediately called her cell.
HILIGHTING ABOVE POST: For those of you who are not familiar with JWG’s work- He is one of the few people that I would trust to fully prove or disprove any theory I would ever put out. You see it folks.
JWG: Thank you for your contributions to this case as well as others.
B
Silver Good post BTW george statement where he keeps saying my spouse. My SPOUSE That’s a lovin man. I rest my case he wasn’t there
Silverspnr, one day…… one day…., you are just going to have to speculate for our understanding, what can cause a family to behave in such ways, if it is not the usual behaviour for a family grieving a murdered toddler whose family member is accused of the crime.
Remembering Lee’s account of what happened when Cindy came into Casey’s room at one point on July 15th– he said his mom’s statement to Casey was ‘WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?’ (not the version we later here from Cindy in the video interviews) We don’t hear much of that now– that was Lee’s direct knowledge in close and personal with both women at that point and can bet that was a question given Lee, faced with his interview video from last summer, to lock down that original statement under oath.
Thanks for another great read– we are getting quite a collection of euphemisms (and I am thinking this term fits, keeping in mind the politeness of this site) such as your latest “personality-disorder central”!
Blink, I give up. What defense has Baez secured for his client? At this point, how can they go with anything other than the “nanny” did it?
Dont you guys find it strange that we know nothing of georges family!! I dont think any of them have been nterviewed or exposed to to media!! but we do know more about cindys side!!!
I am just blown away at the depth of information and opinion on this site. Today’s highlight: the discussion of the nature of evil and the concept of malignant narcissism. YES, what a great explanation for many of the problems of crime. I do not see George or Cindy as being malignant. They are garden variety narcissists who are gradually manipulated by Casey into her growing world of selfishness that culminates in the cover up of the murder of Caylee. Their lies start small: Casey directs Cindy who directs George.
How much a player in this web of deceit is Baez? After the final arrest, he took over for Casey, but this is still Casey’s show.
It is nothing less than amazing how she kept her family and friends ignorant of her real life and her day to day actions. They all seemed to believe she was a working single mom, even though they all had different stories about the details. She kept them separated and kept the stories going right up to the death of Caylee and beyond that for one month. After the disappearance is discovered, she controls her parents with a string of lies so blatant, we observers cannot believe her parents don’t see through it. It is a credit to her skills that these deluded people keep wanting to believe her, right up until the little body is found.
Why? Because the entire situation is so nightmarish to its participants that they cannot admit that it has happened. Casey? She doesn’t care about anybody else, but George and Cindy do. They have been sucked into this ongoing bad dream little bit by little bit, until their complicity with their daughter’s obvious lies makes them look as guilty as she is.
What parent doesn’t tell white lies for their kids? George and Cindy thought at first that the way to get Caylee back was to placate Casey. That is the whole tone of the jail house videotaped visit, which happens when George and Cindy are trying to believe the whole Timer 55 thing. They have been sucked into a makebelieve fantasy world where at the end of the story, Caylee is alive and well, and Casey is released from jail. I am sure that Cindy’s obvious anger is because she knows how very stupid she has been and she realizes now that the whole world knows how stupid she has been.
They began the lies because they wanted to believe Caylee was still alive. Cindy continued lying because she doesn’t ever admit that she is wrong. George is lying because he is too weak to say no to Cindy.
Casey is sitting in jail because she underestimated her parents’ love for Caylee. I predict her entire effort right now is to talk Baez into using a defense that will punish George and Cindy for their sin of loving Caylee more than her. Malignant is the exact word for her.
What I think I am trying to say is that I don’t the Anthonys were spectacularly disfunctional. They seem just a little sad, in a kind of average way. Many children steal from their parents when they are young, and most families don’t like to talk about it. Many teenaged pregnancies are denied to the outside world until there is unmistakeably a baby being cared for. Lots of young people lose jobs and don’t tell mom and dad for awhile. Parents don’t send out engraved announcements to the world about their children’s failings.
What makes this all different is Casey. She might have got away with it. There is evidence she was trying to put together a Zenaida identity. There is evidence to me, at least, that Caylee was supposed to be found much earlier. (Instead of renting that dead body in the trunk movie, she should have rented Weekend at Bernies, which might have taught her just how annoyingly inconvenient those bodies can be.) I think that the bagging tore in her car trunk, which left an unmistakeable puddle of evidence and a smell. Without that evidence, would any of us be so certain she will be convicted? The devil is in the details. How could such a young woman come so close to escaping justice for such a crime? She is …something else entirely.
Blink, did I just wipe Casey’s birthday of last year, right OFF the calendar here??!?! What WAS I thinking!!
— after reading those pages and pages and pages of cell phone messages, with little or no order of dates, and no names as to who is speaking, I don’t have to make the excuse that ‘the nanny made me do it!’
I did find some interesting call comments in all of that, I don’t know if those pages are completely new and improved versions from the past or not, but they are new to me.
(one comment ‘aside’ about the notion of Casey saying something to someone about being the target of a sexual advance of a family member– I would NEVER base that idea on ANYTHING PUT OUT THERE BY CASEY– PERIOD!! If not BEFORE reading these pages and seeing how extreme and concocted her lies are, that are actually so successful in creating the big lie about herself– her costume/her ‘DISGUISE’ that was so ‘real’ to her trusting friends, that you can NOT take what Casey says alone on its merits!
Having said that, there is no door closed on that possibility yet and some believe that the Anthony behaviours, Casey’s behaviours do fit into a model of an incest victim– BUT CAUTION– her behaviours WE DO KNOW, fit the sociopath/psychopath profile and Casey can deceive with the best of them, just her inexperience seems to have caught up with her in the ‘Life-O’-Casey Event Planning-ahead and Risk Mitigation Department’.
It may be that Casey does fit the profile of an abused incest ‘victim’– or that she does not– or maybe she’s read enough and been around enough, to give clues to that scenario– more than her comment to Jesse about Lee– maybe she knows she’s setting some stage for her future manipulations– who knows. Casey’s spinning tales for her own purposes are not ‘proof’.
(As for questions that still are posed about G being the father? About not being ‘cleared’? That is the subject for more easy research to get the answers– it’s been answered many times on this site. )
# 220 WSH the PDF from the Sentinel might give you the phone ping info you are looking for. Around Page 221 through Page 257. Lots of maps, color coding, movement etc in this doc and easy to understand for the most part. Although on some of the radials (page 325 to 330) I am still attempting to comprehend those.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/medi…08/48524243.pdf
Quietly reading, absorbing and giving kudo’s to all of you while talking to myself…lol. Thanks all for the thought provoking post.
Blink, After I posted to above statement, I realized he could also say Cindy or George did it and Casey was just covering for them with the “nanny” story. However, I want to know what believable defense could Baez come up with?
Believeable? None.
B
Thanks blink, I too think the Anthony have not been telling the truth. And going back and referencing the case on the 15th. June 9/June 15 Caseys cell pings show that she was near the Anthony residence, we know that Cindy took Caylee to Mt Dora for fathers day. And it has been stated that there was a fight with between Casey and Cindy the night of the 15th.
(paraphrasing)
Caseys statement is on June 9(June 15) she dropped caylee off at the nanny’s (there is no indication in the docs provided that there was anyone else that watched caylee other than cindy) went to work (what ever work is to Casey)and when she came back Caylee and the Nanny were not there. Casey stated -THE Last person I saw Caylee with is the Nanny.
We do not have any idea if caylee was there the night of the 15th, other than cindy’s testamony. We DO KNOW (fact) that Caylee was alive on the 15th at mt Dora with Cindy. After MT Dora Caylee’s where about’s are unknown.
(in any case, about the ‘incest’ suggestion– we will hear I’m sure, that LE has taken that accusation VERY seriously, and will have had that investigated thoroughly because that’s what you have to do, apparently if a child ‘speaks’. Also, investigators would know that this could be a defense position and for that reason, I’d assume they would want to know if there were any family dark deep secrets that relate in any way, to Casey’s behaviours. JMHO– Blink makes an excellent point that there is no accusation about George and so perhaps that’s why no paternity result in the docs released. But I think they will cover all the bases, and if they have cleared George as well, they may not be ready to release that yet– for some strategic reasons, or because other evaluations were still outstanding, or not something they wanted to release).
Let’s take Blink’s advice, and put any suspicions on ice– it can only add harm to do otherwise and we can wholeheartedly respect Blink for setting this standard here.
Need an edit function… link in my above post doesn’t work… B can you fix please.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2009-08/48524243.pdf
If that doesn’t work either please go to and click on 08/09 discovery docs
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/crime/
Thanks
I don’t know if this has already been addressed, but if so, please forgive me. Does anyone know what prompted the prosecution to put the DP back on? Could it have anything to do with a Casey fingerprint on the ducttape that was around Caylee’s mouth? I would think the ducttape in itself would be enough to prove premeditation and not an “accident”
#242 Kleat.Agree! Excellent point(s).It is not fair to accuse or even suggest because of 1 comment alledgedly made by Casey. And that 911 call with her in the car should end it .For me for sure.Her mom was turning her in and she was not shouting anything at her holding anything over her head ect.
August 9, 2005, Caylee would have turned four years old today and this will be another milestone for George and Cindy to endure. I hope they find some peace in their inner conflicts and can resolve themselves to embracing the hard lessons that they have learned. Not those lessons about the ‘missing children’s club’ that they say they belong to, but the lessons that can speak for the Caylee’s in the world, whose families may still be continuing down the path of destruction, deceit, so that they can ‘unmask’ the disguise and the lies, bring this dark secret of having what may be called a true ‘interspecies predator’ to those who can help, and then advocate for the children who are at risk.
Caylee’s voice will be heard and she will make a difference.
http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780061147890/Snakes_in_Suits/index.aspx
“Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths go to Work”
The author’s biographies are included at the bottom of this page. The term ‘interspecies predator’ was used by author Dr. Robert Hare. I have yet to read this book, but have found articles by Dr. Hare that discuss the markers for sociopaths/psychopaths. And he is apparently a highly credible source for this type of information for anyone interested.
Brings to mind George’s ‘big business corporation and you are the president and everyone else is under you’ analogy that he used with Casey in a jailhouse video.
This is a quote from the Harper Collins review as linked above:
“We’d like to think that if we met someone who was completely without conscience — someone who was capable of doing anything at all if it served his or her purposes — we would recognize it. In popular culture, the image of the psychopath is of someone like Hannibal Lecter or the BTK Killer. But in reality, many psychopaths just want money, or power, or fame, or simply a nice car. Where do these psychopaths go? Often, it’s to the corporate world.
Researchers Paul Babiak and Robert Hare have long studied psychopaths. Hare, the author of Without Conscience, is a world-renowned expert on psychopathy, and Babiak is an industrial-organizational psychologist. Recently the two came together to study how psychopaths operate in corporations, and the results were surprising. They found that it’s exactly the modern, open, more flexible corporate world, in which high risks can equal high profits, that attracts psychopaths. They may enter as rising stars and corporate saviors, but all too soon they’re abusing the trust of colleagues, manipulating supervisors, and leaving the workplace in shambles.
Snakes in Suits is a compelling, frightening, and scientifically sound look at exactly how psychopaths work in the corporate environment: what kind of companies attract them, how they negotiate the hiring process, and how they function day by day. You’ll learn how they apply their “instinctive” manipulation techniques — assessing potential targets, controlling influential victims, and abandoning those no longer useful — to business processes such as hiring, political command and control, and executive succession, all while hiding within the corporate culture. It’s a must read for anyone in the business world, because whatever level you’re at, you’ll learn the subtle warning signs of psychopathic behavior and be able to protect yourself and your company — before it’s too late.”
(qualification– I meant to write ‘interspecies predator’ was, “if I remember correctly”, used by Dr. Hare. I did not double-check as I am relying on memory, and surely no photographic memory!)
JWG-#232
Thank you. Excellent point.
When George first attempted to contact Casey on June 16, 2008, at around 3pm, he called the Hope Spring land line first, because he expected her to be there (and not, as he has stated to LE, over and over and over again, that he saw her leave for WORK, WITH CAYLEE IN TOW, at 12:50p.m.)
The fact that there are only 2 phone calls from George to Casey during the 31 days is also quite telling.
How about George’s behavior in the first couple of weeks after July 15th. Remember the games he played with Richard Grund??? Pretending to want to explain why he wasn’t searching for Caylee or the phantom Nanny, etc, even going so far as to make plans to meet RG to discuss it, but then, a la Casey, failing to appear (and even HIDING in his own house, pretending to NOT BE AT HOME,–having LEE pretend he didn’t know where George went, all while the Grunds sat there waiting to see him, after having been left outside in the rain for an hour before Lee even invited them inside? And how does one get “delayed” in their own house?? Bruuuuuther.)
Also, per RG, George admitted that he KNEW that Casey did not have any of these jobs, so how could he TRUTHFULLY say to LE that Casey was leaving for WORK that day?? “Like any other normal day.” PUH-LEASE.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5686652/Casey-Anthony-Richard-Grund-Transcript
Kleat-#234 Glad to entertain you=)
As to that family dynamic, I think there is a clear and longstanding pattern of blaming, shaming and lying. It is the hallmark of the Anthonys’ little universe. Not only to they blame, shame, and lie to each other, but when necessary to preserve the family image Cindy wishes to project to the world, they blame, shame, and lie to others as well.
Cindy is the ALPHA dog. What Cindy wants, Cindy gets. Especially after she caught George with his naughty hand in the gambling cookie jar. This gave Cindy even greater power to blame and shame him, which left George figuratively “castrated” in that relationship.
A good example: Cindy tells her bother, Rick, that when all is said and done here, Casey will be “Mother of the Year”. She is not in “denial” about her daughter when she says this. She is angrily defending not just Casey, but her family image/HERSELF. Which brings us around to another interesting highlight of RG’s statement: Casey left Caylee totally unattended while she had sex with Jesse and Lord knows how many others. This is not something that RG would want to reveal, because it doesn’t paint his son in the best light, but RG is being HONEST with LE (unlike the Anthonys).
(Hey Cindy- Since when does any “Mother of the Year” leave her INFANT totally unattended to go have sex? Since when does any “Mother of the Year” pawn her baby off on others seemingly non-stop? If it wasn’t Cindy watching Caylee.. it was Lauren…or it was Jesse.. or it was Jesse’s father… or it was Kristina. Even Casey says that Cindy called her “AN UNFIT MOTHER”. We can hear Cindy threatening to not only get custody of Caylee, but the threat continues– “And you’ll never…” (see her again)
That poor baby girl. This family dynamic is horrific.
Cindy. Not only is she deceitful, she is as VICIOUS as they come. You may wish to go back and read the portion of RG’s interview where he tells of how Cindy behaved when he called to voice concern over the way Jesse was being portrayed. Vicious and Vile.
And remember, it was not just Leonard who alerted the Grunds to the fact that the Anthonys were actively working on framing Jesse. Corporal Williams also alerted Mr. Grund to the fact that Cindy was dropping Jesse’s name left and right.
Vile, vicious, inexcusable.
I also found Nathan L’s interview interesting (for a number of reasons), but in particular with relation to the family dynamic when he shared with LE what Lee said about his sister when he arrived to collect the laptop/her clothing.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5687695/Casey-Anthony-Nathan-Lezniewicz-transcript
(See pp. 18-19: “Lee spilled…quite a bit of family nonsense.”
Stray thoughts but to me they speak to personality disorder junction and the way the Anthony’s use language and communicate. Saying it like it is is not in the picture. One of the things that struck me and I cannot forget is Cindy’s July 3rd post “My Caylee is Missing” as opposed to I am missing my Caylee. Caylee was indeed missing but Cindy didn’t know that on July 3rd. Similarly George at the tow lot – we just found my daughter today but we can’t find my granddaughter. Well he hadn’t really found his daughter at that point. The “missing” word is very odd given the stream of phone calls,missed calls, texts etc. To me when someone is missing they are indeed missing. Not just missing from my field of vision. Casey wasn’t “missing” and there was ample evidence of that. It the same story with the 911 Calls.
What follows partially explains to me the reason Casey was “missing”. When Cindy contacts Casey’s friend Ryan Paisley (?) I believe on the 15th re has he seen them. No indeed he has not but he tells Cindy that Casey is in Orlando and had told him Caylee was with her. What does she do? She starts shouting about Casey being a sociopath. She does the same thing at Tony’s when she drags Casey out.
Something else that offered me insight into the Anthony home was the to do with Jesse when he and Casey were watching tv in her bedroom albeit fully clothed. Sheesh. A little late for that kind of propriety. But it does say a lot about Cindy’s sense of parental control and her willingness to humiliate her daughter. Reportedly she did the same thing but more publicly when she hauled her out of TGIF having heard from Lee that Casey may be pregnant again. This is not the behaviour of a parent genuinely trying to help her daughter find her way in life.
Yes Cindy did provide the materials in life for Casey and Caylee. But I cannot find one good example of her getting Casey meaningful and functional help to stand on her own two feet as an individual and a parent much less overcome her cheating, lying, stealing ways.
And with that back to pondering. Thanks all.