David Hartley Gunned Down On Jet Ski In Mexico : Tiffany Young-Hartley Facing Scrutiny
According to his wife, Tiffany Young-Hartley, who called 911, David Hartley, 30, was gunned down by Mexican pirates while the couple ventured across the Falcon Resovior lakes US border to take pictures of the “Mexican Atlantis” or Old Guerreo.
Hartley says her husband was shot in the head and as a result “flew” off his jet ski while the couple was returning from the landmark on the Mexican side of the lake, after taking pictures. She goes on to say she became aware of 3 different boats chasing down the couple only after she saw bullets hitting the water next to her. As she turned around to see where they were coming from, she claims she witnessed her husbands murder.
David was driving a new Sea Doo RXT ski that can climb from 0–30MPH in 1.7 seconds and is capable of top-end speeds of over 60 MPH. Blinkoncrime.com has not been able to confirm which model Ms. Hartley was driving. The couple had been on at least one earlier jet ski jaunt while still in Mexico, but was cut short due to a mishap with David’s craft on June 20th.
According to his wife, David was face-down in the water, wearing a life vest, after he was shot.
Despite the horror of what she had just witnessed and astonishingly avoiding injury to her or her watercraft, she circled back around, jumped off her jet ski, and turned her 250 lb. husband upright to observe the gunshot wound to his forehead. You read that correctly, according to Tiffany Hartley, while being chased from behind, David was shot from the front. Hartley maintains this is when she attempted to load him onto her jet ski, and also when two of the three boats were now positioned in front of her.
One of the alleged pirate boats from the front approached her within 10 ft. While she stared down the barrell of his gun, she was holding onto her husband with one hand, her ski with the other asking not to be shot. Apparently through some sort of Mexican telepathy or nautical sign language, the men who just ambushed the couple and murdered her husband in cold blood, made a decision to let her go and retreated IN FRONT OF HER.
Hartley claims she cannot identify any of the men, that they never said a word to her nor could she hear anything they may have said to each other, but believes the motive for the attack to be robbery or to kidnap her. It is not clear how Tiffany arrived at this conclusion as they never made an attempt to stop them or ask them for their money, she was off her $13,000 Sea doo they could have easily taken, and they let her go.
It was at this time that Hartley finally did hear something. She says she heard the voice of God tell her to leave David, save herself and get to safety. However, his instruction must have been non-specific because she proceeded to mount her ski in deep water, start it back up, and drive directly toward and then past the very band of gun weilding murderous cartel who minutes ago gunned down her highschool sweetheart and spouse of 8 years. (Editors note: I cannot imagine the nerve it takes to again have your back to the same crew who, unprovoked, sprayed the lake with bullets behind you while you were fleeing for your life).
While Tiffany admits the couple was aware of recent pirate activity in the area they learned about while David researched the location, she claims they had not heard of anymore incidents on Falcon Lake, which borders both Texas and Mexico, “in a while.”
The Hartley’s, who had recently been on a few tropical vacations, were in the process of relocating to Colorado next week from Reynosa, Mexico and McAllen Texas, where they had lived for only a few months, following David’s transfer request to Calfrac well services.
According to recent Facebook postings, although the couple could not agree on furniture tastes, they recently purchased a house full of it just after a luxury cruise and visit to a seminar for those experiencing financial difficulty.
I would love to be able to do no analysis and regergetate this story as reported by main stream media whereby not one reporter asks the obvious question:
After several known incidents of piracy in that location over the last months, why would the “pirates” suddenly go on a murderous rampage in lieu of attempting to rob a couple on jet skis that could outrun them on sight?
Not gonna happen. I have heard umpteen versions of Ms. Hartley’s version of events leading to the random execution of her husband.
None pass the smell test. However, just today, Zapata County Sheriff “Sigi” Gonzalez, Jr says his investigation, now aided by a witness who is a long standing member of the Zapata community, exonerates Mrs. Hartley of any wrongdoing.
Gonzalez completely rules out foul play on the part of Mrs. Hartley.
“A local witness saw Tiffany Hartley escaping on her jet-ski to the Texas side of the lake,” he said. “She came in at high speed and was being pursued by armed men in a Mexican fishing boat that that the witness clearly observed.”
Gonzalez said the witness was a long-standing member of the Zapata community who was well known to him and regarded as highly credible.
“The testimony of this witness dispels any idea Mrs. Hartley was involved in any wrongdoing regarding the murder of her husband,” he said firmly. “She called in a 911 phone call to our office at around 2:20 p.m. on the day of the incident, immediately after she got to shore, and her statements to my office confirm what the local witness observed.”
Unfortunately, the witness account does not match Tiffany Hartley’s own version of events. At no time has she ever said that she was again chased by the “pirates”, in fact, she claims she left them behind after driving “through” them.
Hartley references recent pirate activity, which is almost verbatim what she says happened to her and David, with the exception of the actual piracy:
On April 30, five people in two different boats were fishing on Falcon Lake and went to the Old Guerrero area, where they were taking photos of the old church. While they were there, a boat with four heavily tattooed men approached the two boats quickly. The men identified themselves as “Federales,” but they were not wearing uniforms. The men boarded the boats, demanded cash and asked “where are the drugs?” The fishermen told the men that they had no drugs and were just fishing and taking photos. They ended up giving the men $200 cash and left the area. The pirates followed the two boats, but the U.S. boats were able to outrun them and the men stopped following once the two boats entered U.S. waters.
In every recorded incident since April, the heavily tattoed pirates posing as “Federales” without uniforms, came upon anchored fishing boats, boarded them, robbed the fisherman at gunpoint of any personal cash, searched for drugs left without any violence. In the Hartley family interview on the Today show, Tiffany states that after David was hit, she circled around, jumped off her jetski, swam over to her husband and because he was “face down in the water” she had to turn him over where she discovered he was shot in the head.
It would seem I am not alone in my quagmire. Mexican Investigators, who hold jurisdiction have already begun to question Ms. Hartley’s story.
Marco Antonio Guerrero Carrizales, the district attorney for the Miguel Aleman Province adjoining Falcon Lake on the Mexican side, has questioned whether Tiffany Hartley was involved in foul play.
Early this morning, Sheriff Sigi Gonzalez announced the Mexican Authorities will be searching the area where David Hartley was murdered, and have committed to “not leaving” until they find him. Tiffany Hartley, accompanied by her parents, but without David’s, filed a missing person report at the Mexican Consulate last night as a matter of procedure to “get the ball rolling”.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates
Madeline Tanner, contributing editor blinkoncrime.com
Images by Klaasend
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http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=13336504
Mrs. Hartley said that pirates shot her husband in the neck ….
********
Wow, the story is changing. I guess she figured people were asking too many questions about him being shot in the head: why isn’t life jacket covered with blood, why doesn’t she come outright and declare him dead, etc.
Okay Blink, Tiffany gives a “2nd statement” ?
… and now “pirates shot her husband in the NECK” -and- she “barely escaped when they shot @ her when she tried to retrieve him” ?
http://www.kgw.com/news/world/105111304.html
8.Jettx says:
October 15, 2010 at 10:30 pm
I don’t know that anything could make me believe that TH killed her husband, or even knew who did….I know it can look suspicious to the rest of the world, but it makes all the sense in the world if you live near it or in it. And make no mistake, Mexico is all about damage control…the last thing they want is to let on that there is something wrong….and its like the pink elephant in the room!
This may be a little OT, but I would like for everyone on this site to just browse the blog link I am posting. Browse the following posts and tell me what makes sense about any of it!!
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/search?updated-min=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-07%3A00&updated-max=2011-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=50
Ok I browsed it and I came away saying there is no way those violent killers would have let a little blonde on a jet ski go sailing to freedom. They take no prisoners. Nope..something else went down over there. Me thinks drugs are involved in some way.
TH’s new version of DH being shot in the neck is now posted on several news websites. Not one publication has noted that this new version is a complete contradiction to her first story and the many media interviews she has given so far.
Most of the comments left by readers of the new story are all centered around immigration, legalization of marijuana and border security — not even sure most people realize her story has changed, sadly. I fear the case is getting lost in the shuffle.
Interesting link Lori D!
From the article:
“Mrs. Hartley said that pirates shot her husband in the neck and that she barely escaped when they shot at her when she tried to retrieve him.”
Surely she hasn’t changed her story that much! That must be a mistake on the part of the reporter or some sort of typo! They don’t cite a source either so I am suspicious.
Interesting true story…about a man who faked his death…
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/08/world/main3593846.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/05/world/main3576563.shtml?source=related_story&tag=related
In that case, he did it to get the family out of debt -wife cashed in LI policy -and the police evidently FAILED to ask questions in the beginning…not until 5 years later…wild.
@ Cricket says:
October 16, 2010 at 9:44 pm
From the article:
“Mrs. Hartley said that pirates shot her husband in the neck and that she barely escaped when they shot at her when she tried to retrieve him.”
Surely she hasn’t changed her story that much! That must be a mistake on the part of the reporter or some sort of typo! They don’t cite a source either so I am suspicious.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I kind of shook my head when I read that too & either she did say it or someone missed the error of the reporters wording; but then I don’t think the papers edit anymore..
o.k that ‘shot in the neck’ statement is in two different papers & is actually being reported as given by The Mexican Attorney General’s Office & they are quoting TH..
http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=13336504
http://www.kgw.com/news/world/105111304.html
The story with:
“Mrs. Hartley said that pirates shot her husband in the neck ….”
It is an Associated Press story. That means it is just the same story being ran by all the news outlets that subscribe to the AP service.
SH wrote: I am disappointed, that not one anchor or reporter, researched the Nuestra Señora del Refugio Church. The reporters could have challenged, Tiff, if they were on land or water, (supposedly) taking photos.
*********************************************************
Ditto! I started paying attention to this story only last week, and wondered the same thing. It was the church/photo jeski trip that caught my interest first. (Not the many lies/stories she told.) So the first thing I did was browsed the web for church pics etc. One of my earlier posts listed below:
I also like what MADILU or was it NANA2 said about why they would have wasted gas for her “so called time report of 5 minutes at church.” My wife loves photography and history…and I can tell you that she would not have settled for a few snaps of the church. We would have dismounted, and she would have taken about 20(lol) photos of each building/town artifact….inside & out. The 5 minute remark TH made, so contradicts the very reason they made the decision to illegally cross the border. (RED FLAG ALERT!)
As for the report that she said pirates shot her in the neck, my feeling was that it was sloppy reporting. They tried to make it look like a new statement, but I think it was their error. I tried to find some way to email the AP person who wrote the article, but conveniently there was no indication of who to contact…? I think it was faulty reporting, and they were doing a re-cap, not stating a quote from a recent interview…jmo
What I mean is, they IMPLY that it’s a new statement saying [in the neck] and title it “Wife gives 2nd statement on border lake shooting”
but then go on to say, “The agency did not give any specifics on her statement.” Then the writer proceeded to write a brief, erroneous re-cap…
SH…per David walking the grounds/taking photos and TH so claimed being tourists/pirates ambushing them…I also think that the pirates would have at that time shot both of them and taken both of their jetskis. What do pirates do after all? (murder, rape, rob, plunder, pillage) Pirates/criminals don’t have a conscience. I also wonder if it was a drug deal gone wrong, could TH have been attacked & raped? Maybe David tried to fight them off (she says he saved her life) and she then escaped? Thus, that is why she did show stress when making it to shore? As a man, I find it hard to believe that these “pirates” let her go twice…our thoughts are animalistic at times…and I’m sure the criminals wouldn’t have hesitated to show her respect/courtesy.
4.Intriqued says: Most of the comments left by readers of the new story are all centered around immigration, legalization of marijuana and border security — not even sure most people realize her story has changed,
****************************************************************
If I have time…I know its mean & cruel of me, but when I see comments like above on blogs…I go in and post reply to them with the link below and tell them to WAKE UP. (VERY GRAPIC IMAGES) Or a link to the borderlandbeat website, which is also similar. The link below has pics of dismembered bodies…so don’t open it if you’d rather not see it. (All articles on site are informative/graphic to the violence in Mexico.
http://mcauleysworld.wordpress.com/2010/06/29/the-arizona-law-mexican-drug-cartels-threaten-mexican-democracy-leading-politician-assassinated-obamas-inaction-threatens-american-security/
Nobody is discounting the violence in any way. To that end, if she is indeed lying, I would think that would infuriate those exposed to it “in reality” even more.
Can you imagine the resources that the US would propel to this issue if she took a LDT and passed?
B
Does the following provoke any thoughts?
“The truck Hartley and his wife used to put their Jet Skis in the water at the lake had Tamaulipas state plates, and the Hartleys drove the Jet Skis to the Old Guerrero area of the lake, a known battleground in the ongoing war the Los Zetas and Gulf cartels,” according to STRATFOR, a Texas-based think tank on intelligence and international issues.
“Given the couple’s license plate and method and direction of travel, it is possible that Zetas scouts identified them as a Gulf cartel surveillance team,” STRATFOR said in its report.
I would think the drug cartel would have killed both of them, but maybe once they saw her face they knew they had mistaken identity?
If this is true, his body will never be found. The body would be destroyed along with the jet ski in order to avoid conflict with our government and the guys who killed David will be hunted and destroyed as well.
2.riverpearl says:
October 16, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Okay Blink, Tiffany gives a “2nd statement” ?
… and now “pirates shot her husband in the NECK” -and- she “barely escaped when they shot @ her when she tried to retrieve him”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@River, I have to agree with Madilu. Tiffany has consistently said that David was shot in the head. This (shot in the neck) is not a direct quote, so until I see the interview, I am thinking someone did not appropriately edit their piece. JMO.
I clearly remember seeing a video where TH touched her forehead when she was describing where her husband was shot.
She has not only said that repeatedly, but was asked specifically if she felt his wound was an entrance or exit and she replied if he was shot in the back of the head she did not see it, that the only wound she saw was on his forehead when she turned him over..
If she is in fact changing the location of his wound, deliberately, there is no doubt in my mind it is intentional based on some unknown agenda.
B
Here is to a story that David’s mom, Pam, gave to The Brownsville Herald today….
http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/articles/pleads-118164-recovery-zapata.html
oops… that was yesterday! ignore if uve already read it.
I find the following to be a sumpin’ ta chew on: (do you?)
Link: http://www.themonitor.com/articles/hartley-43519-team-vest.html (audio interview, The Monitor)
3:30 We didn’t just vacation in, you know, Cancun or Zihuatanejo, it was, you know, San Antonio and you know just like little trips here and there and out to the island or whatever, it’s just those little memories, you know, getting out of the house and enjoying life and experiencing Texas and Mexico and Reynosa…um, we didn’t get to go to Monterrey, which we were kinda hoping that that would happen before we left but, we heard it was beautiful…”
That said, I took a look at DMH FB page where he has tagged all the places he has traveled to on the “tripadvisor” application (He did NOT mark Zapata, btw), but he did mark: Virgina Beach, Disney World, Palm Beach, Miami, Clearwater, Key West, Caymans, Jamaica, Cancun, Zihuatanejo, Padres Island, LA, Nawlin’s, Corpus Christi -All sound like, “good time” sunny fun surf places to me -and not so much ‘exploring’ the rich history of Mexico…and although every place on earth is rich in history in some way, their pictures reveal interests to be destinations -amusement park, diving, biplanes, beach, cruise, dinner out, etc…notso much history oriented.
So why does she keep insisting that he is a history buff, and his family is parroting her every other word?
Bottom line is, contrary to what she said in this audio interview, he had been in fact been to Monterrey -obviously without her. Why would she make that statement? “We heard it was beautiful.” As if he never went there… Bizarro!
Primadonna? Lonely Housewife? Close loving marriage? You decide.
I think this young woman was bored sh**less in her every day life, and not as happy and go lucky as she presents. And now she is living a new ‘fairy tale.’
She has divulged the following:
1. They didn’t love Reynosa, but didn’t hate it.
2. (FB June 6) that they couldn’t agree on furniture, and moving to a new house sucked.
3. (FB May 27)”What a long boring day, was hoping to go over to McAllen with David, oh well.”
4 (FB Apr 7) “he’s been working a lot lately and we haven’t had much time together.”
I’ll be she was lonely as all spit, and he worked his butt off and spent all his money making her happy with these destination vacations and toys… Maybe he got in over his head financially, and things just spiraled…and then…???
I further support my opinion by pointing out that if you look at her wall posts with a clear lens -then notice that she is all about BRAGGING to friends. Think about it. Put on some fresh lenses and look again at the wall…It’s pretty much ALL she posts about, and doesn’t seem to post on other people’s posts (sucky FB friend!)…and only one old aunt every comments on her stuff, yet she is so CLOSE with all her/his family…? She just gets on [FB]to talk about buying all new furniture, fancy trips, birthday surprises that hubby paid for, jet skiing, and finally -letting everyone know that financially they are, “ahead of the game.” [Praise the Lord!] Quite a show off, and could explain her love affair with the media too. And $he is almost glowing thinking about all the new vacations she will be able to take once she can just, “move on.” Most people that show off/brag like that are internally insecure, and sad -and don’t want others to know. And often one leans to God when feeling lonely and down too.
Anybody feeling the love? MOO MOO, and Natti Natt fellow blinkers!
crimesolver says:
October 16, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Ditto! I started paying attention to this story only last week, and wondered the same thing. It was the church/photo jeski trip that caught my interest first. (Not the many lies/stories she told.) So the first thing I did was browsed the web for church pics etc. One of my earlier posts listed below
———————————————————————-
She supposedly gave “new information” if she can believe Mexico.
With the self-walking tour, I would be all over the Church-School grounds, David would, too. He didn’t need a tour, he adventured:)
Thanks, again, for that link for the walking tour,no idea that there was back to the Church! LOL.
Do you think the water receded between Sept. 7 and Sept. 30?
Tiff, mentions the “Brush” around the Church,she this in an earlier interview (Youtube). It is questionable ,if they ever made it
that far. Their is a problem, no camera, to vertify her claim.
———————————————————————
MEXICO CITY (AP) — The wife of an American tourist reported shot to death by pirates on a border lake has given helpful new details about the incident to Mexican authorities, Mexico’s government said Saturday.
snip
“Mrs. Hartley provided valuable information that will allow federal investigations to continue,” the statement said.
snip
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihp-2VwhwaZRrlHeh3tcSLEai7dA?docId=fc512d70f52b41db9304cb0a75fa6e65
@ Cricket says:
October 16, 2010 at 10:54 pm
The story with:
“Mrs. Hartley said that pirates shot her husband in the neck ….”
It is an Associated Press story. That means it is just the same story being ran by all the news outlets that subscribe to the AP service.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well the story got legs this morning because they are reporting it on MSNBC TV news..
Are they reporting the change in her story or is it simply just being repeated without notice. That is just freaking bizarre.
B
Rhoni says:
October 16, 2010 at 3:29 pm
This question has been bothering me for a few days….
How would the pirates mistake David for a rival gang member (cartel), if they noticed his truck had Mexico tags? Do they have some amazing binoculars to see that far across the lake. What is it, like 5 miles? And how big are these ‘tags’?
—————————————————————
How did the “patient pirates” mistake a six foot, Irish-man, for
an Mexican? The “Hartley” surname is Irish – Anglo-Saxon.
http://www.themonitor.com/news/private-43647-zetitas-detective.html
Private detective: ‘Zetitas’ killed Hartley
EDINBURG — While Mexican officials have put the search for McAllen man David Michael Hartley on hold indefinitely, a local man believes he has many of the answers to the mystery of the disappearance.
Ruins of Guerrero Viejo, Tamaulipas, Mexico
These beautiful thumbnails photos, can be enlarged with a click, including the church, Nuestra Senora del Refugio Church, the
Schoolhouse 1 & Schoolhouse 2, The old market, etc.
http://www.pbase.com/esantos2003/ruins_of_guerrero
I was just about to write about the Monitor article that Lee just posted above but she beat me to it. The local PI who says that it was an inexperienced “baby” Zeta – or a “Zetitta” that accidently shot David while they were using a scare tactic to get them to stop so they could take the jetski.
This guy actually names the kid who shot Hartley and says he was executed by cartel leaders in Monterrey last week. I won’t type the name here – because I think we prefer Blink’s head to stay on her shoulders.
Interesting theory.
But why then let her go, and not take hers? More importantly, where would they think they were going to chop shop a jetski of a murdered american?
Blink – if you are comfortable elaborating now since more specutlation has come out regarding what may have happened, I’d love to hear your current thoughts on it. Do you believe DH is dead? Do you believe TH is guilty of foul play (intentionally assisted in causing his death)?
Thanks in advance for anything you feel you can share.
Prayers for the Hartley family and all the victims of the border violence occuring in this area.
I wonder if she is stating there was a second wound to the neck…or if she is in fact changing her story all together? She very clearly stated he had a large open wound to his forehead earlier. She said she wasn’t sure if it was entry or exit wound, but it has been speculated it would have been an exit wound since it was so large.
Prayers for the Hartley family.
Blink says:
Can you imagine the resources that the US would propel to this issue if she took a LDT and passed?
B
Are you saying you think the US is not providing more resources to this issue because they don’t believe her story?
I am saying that Cueller himself has stated he spoke to the coast guard and they could not come up with a reason they could not locate Hartley or the jet ski if it happened that way.
B
@Rhoni says:
October 16, 2010 at 3:29 pm
This question has been bothering me for a few days….
How would the pirates mistake David for a rival gang member (cartel), if they noticed his truck had Mexico tags? Do they have some amazing binoculars to see that far across the lake. What is it, like 5 miles? And how big are these ‘tags’?
======================
It has been reported these cartels (both sides or rather all sides) have “spotters” on both sides of the border on the look out for suspicious or enemy persons. It was also reported these “spotters” communicate with radios or cell phones to the other side. If this theory is true, it is assumed DH & TH were being watched from the US side when they arrived and went into the lake.
I found this post last night on the Truecrimereport website.
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/10/tiffany_hartley_claims_husband.php (Bottom of comments.)
Posted 10/16/2010 at 10:38:58 PM
care said:
This is all such bullshit.This poor woman and her husband were taking pictures ventured too far an the lake.It was a robbery gone wrong by people who want to be initiated into the drug cartel.I know for a fact the actual TRUE facts of this case as my husband and David Hartley worked together.Tiffany is back in Colorado.She was contacted by the cartel that the men responsible for David’s death are now dead.They told her that David’s body had been disposed of and that she wouldn’t be able to get it back.It was a terrible tragedy that happened to two YOUNG people in a foreign count
As far as the financial situation goes…I think they were in a good position. Most people who work in foreign countries are very well compensated for doing so. If while they were living in Mexico, all their expenses were paid (which is not uncommon) and DH is pulling in a low 6 figure salary (also not uncommon)…it certainly justifies the lifestyle they were leading. Cost of living in Mexico is pennies compared to US…I don’t think any of this was regarding financial troubles they were having…I don’t think they were having them at all, with exception to wondering if DH could be laid off at some point. I think the company moving them back to Colorado indicates he was not likely to be laid off in the near future.
MOO MOO MOO
Prayers for the Hartley family.
Are they reporting the change in her story or is it simply just being repeated without notice. That is just freaking bizarre.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, Blink, the reporting in this case is sometimes as hinky as the case itelf…..:(
Regarding head shots: If David was shot in the back of the head and he fell into a prone (face-down) position, the entrance wound may well have been obscured by his hair. If the bullet/projectile exited the front of his head or face, she may not have seen it until she turned him over.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
24.S.H. says:
October 17, 2010 at 8:53 am
“How did the “patient pirates” mistake a six foot, Irish-man, for
an Mexican? The “Hartley” surname is Irish – Anglo-Saxon.”
@SH: American citizens have been suspected/arrested for running drugs in that area as well as other border crossings, so it would not be a stretch at all for them to presume that. I doubt these thugs stopped and asked him his name.
What I continue to find bizarre about this whole story is her apparent lack of observable anguish or sorrow. It is said that everyone grieves differently….
26.SouthernMom says:
October 17, 2010 at 10:50 am
Blink says:
I am saying that Cueller himself has stated he spoke to the coast guard and they could not come up with a reason they could not locate Hartley or the jet ski if it happened that way.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What I cannot figure out is WHY U.S. investigators didn’t immediately do a fly-over in that area to see if they could at least locate the jet ski and David’s body. I would think they would have wanted to do so. Does anyone know how soon they went out to look?
This was my first thought.
B
30.SouthernMom says:
October 17, 2010 at 11:24 am
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Totally agree with you, Southern Mom, about their finances. I don’t think this incident was related to his job or their finances. Until proven otherwise, I am of the opinion that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Probably poor judgment on their part.
Oops, I posted my last comment before I finished…
That being said, if I were in Tiffany’s shoes I might agree to a polygraph administered by a respected polygrapher. But, I would bet she has had legal counsel all along.
I think Sergeant Sigi has given Tiffany unfaltering support because he needs the attention of the US citizens and government. I think the threats and violence being experienced by those in our border states goes largely unnoticed by those not living there and I bet we’d be surpirsed at how quickly it has been escalating if we were down there to witness it. Probably in SS’s mind–someone getting away with murder, or a couple getting away with a life insurance scam, is a small price to pay if this incident were to bring the needed concern and supoort from our citizens and government. By support I mean $ and military to cap this crazy fiasco before it gets even more out of control.
I’m probably going to be trounced by saying this but…..it seems like a lot of you would be disappointed if it turns out that TH is telling the truth. Not everything is a conspiracy you know.
I have lived in El Paso all my life. I’m 52. We have seen this same kind of incident happen over and over again and is not something new to those of us who live on the border. Yeah there are people who despite the dangers, despite the warnings, STILL venture into places that they should avoid. That doesn’t make them criminals. It just makes them stupid or overly optimistic. There is almost nowhere one can go along the border of Mexico that doesn’t involve an element of danger. What the hell are we supposed to do? Stay home, never go anywhere? Right from the start, most everyone here has wanted to insist that there is some kind of conspiracy and that TH has been lying all along. SO what if she said head or neck. SO WHAT! Why aren’t you slamming the Mexican government for doing nothing? Their not doing nothing is also NOTHING NEW. I’m extending a personal invitation to any of you who dare….come to El Paso for a while and get a look at the real picture. My uncle was one of a total of five International lawyers in the state of Texas and a huge amount of his clients were from the Caribbeans and Mexico. During the last few years of his life…more than HALF of his clients were kidnapped by Mexican cartels. Some of them kidnapped FROM THE UNITED STATES.
I found this article saying that the US searched (doesn’t say the means) the US side.
Snip – “Search teams combed the U.S. side of Falcon Lake for David Michael Hartley, 30, whose wife told police he was shot in the back of the head Thursday after being ambushed by gunmen on boats.”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5haMJhn6enRPZBA8z3GreQPLl8SMQD9IJ0RLG0?docId=D9IJ0RLG0
I’m looking to see if I can find any other reports regarding this because I thought I had read somewhere that there were searches either the first day or the one after.
SH wrote: Do you think the water receded between Sept 7 & 30?
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The webmaster of the tackle&rods site posted the fishing reports below.
http://www.tackleandrods.com/lake/flash.htm (Your link.)
http://www.tackleandrods.com/maps/bigmap.htm
10/05: He has his own questions on TH story.
9/30: They are letting a lot of water out of Falcon, but it is just holding us steady. We still have a good bit of water coming down the Rio Grande, and a lot of water coming out of the Salado. The lower Rio Grande basin is back in flood stage along the river, and it is all due to big releases from Falcon Dam. We are still sitting at 304.64,
9/09: I checked out the creeks across from the church and and ran the machine over a bunch of tank dams to see what depth they are at.
Seems like fishermen fished near the church often. Hmmm…
Sept 22, 2010
Wednesday, September 22nd, 2010,
Photo of a couple, fishing in front of the Church. A little clearer
idea of the grass & brush around the building 9/22/10.
http://falconlakeguide.com/blog/?m=201009
Sorry, this is the link to Sept. 22, 2010 photo of people fishing
on a boat, in front of the Church. About half-way down the page
is the photo, above the dog photo.
Per my post….31.crimesolver says:
October 17, 2010 at 11:16 am
She was contacted by the cartel that the men responsible for David’s death are now dead.They told her that David’s body had been disposed of and that she wouldn’t be able to get it back.
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/10/tiffany_hartley_claims_husband.php
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Forgot to post…if TH’s friend Care is indeed a true post..or telling the truth …how does the cartel contact TH? How often…past & present?!?! Is this the first hint that TH will soon file an insurance claim?
When I try to fairly weigh both sides of this story, I too (like other blinkers) can’t understand her lack of grief (on TV) after losing the “love of her life.” Maybe Madilu has a point above about TH being loney/bored in marriage…and now she is getting so much attention and enjoys it?
Also, the love of my life, (lol) is getting irritated with me because I haven’t touched my “honey-do” list, since I started following this story. Hoping the FBI or US Le releases info this week!
@ GraceintheHills says:
October 17, 2010 at 11:58 am
This story says that both sides (US and Mexico) were going to “resume” the search on Friday, Oct. 1, 2010. To me that means that they began searching right after Tiffany reported the incident.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5haMJhn6enRPZBA8z3GreQPLl8SMQD9IIUA101?docId=D9IIUA101
As the earlier link I posted, the story does not specify what kind of searches were done.
GraceintheHills says:
October 17, 2010 at 11:58 am
What I cannot figure out is WHY U.S. investigators didn’t immediately do a fly-over in that area to see if they could at least locate the jet ski and David’s body. I would think they would have wanted to do so. Does anyone know how soon they went out to look?
This was my first thought.
B
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I have searched for timeline info and kept track of some stuff. The best I have found is conflicting and does NOT mention search start time, but when it was called off:
2:45pm -“Authorities said the shooting happened about 2:45 p.m.” http://www.kens5.com/news/national/104123103.html
Xx:xxpm TYH ride back to shore ~10 minutes?
Xx:xxpm ? Exact location/TIME of the point she returned to shore GS
2:30pm 911 call time: http://www.themonitor.com/articles/antonio-43258-san-falcon.html
(But then “David” on http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/10/does-tiffany-hartley-know-shooter.html says the call came in at 2:20pm ????)
Xx:xxpm Meet with Sheriff –where?
Xx:xxpm Search begins
9:00pm –Search called off http://www.themonitor.com/articles/-43245–.html
SH…again thanks for the link to the pic. (My wife thanks you too.)
http://falconlakeguide.com/blog/
Did you see the post on 9/30 at bottom of page> (May be heresay? but he says one ski)
There was a shooting on the lake about 2:30 . Word is a man and his wife was on a jet skee up by the old church and two boat chased them and started shooting at them and the Man was shot and his wife made it back to the US. The body has not been recovered and he is suspected to be dead. I do not know the full detailes yet but soon as I do I will let you know. This is not good , but from what I have heard there is alot more to this.
re: nana2 says:
October 17, 2010 at 8:21 am
re:
Are they reporting the change in her story or is it simply just being repeated without notice. That is just freaking bizarre.
B
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It was said on the MSNBC news between 8-9 EST this morning which I now think was “repeated without notice’.. About one hour later they did a live interview with Michelle Sigona & they never went near that topic again..
Lee – nobody is disagreeing with you about the fact that Mexico has a huge problem – and a whole bunch of it seems to be in border towns on the AZ, TX and CA borders. However, myself – living, working in Texas my entire career – I have to disagree with the hyperbole that is being hyped up by the politicians and folks who are focused on the extreme with immigration issues. No doubt it’s concerning what’s happening just a few short miles across a border – but really, seriously, and with all due respect – it’s over there and not here. I also have to ask you to fill in your suggestions that people are being kidnapped in the US by Mexican cartels with some sort of link or anything that substantiates that.
I have an office in El Paso. My son did post graduate courses at UTEP while working as a cameraman for a local TV station there. I have been in Juarez more times than I can count. Many of my employees live in Juarez or have family there and cross the border nearly everyday. We install network equipment for businesses in Juarez. So I have a pretty clear perspective on the dangers – and they are real – in Juarez.
I live in South Texas now and I have to say – from a different point of view – that the violence you’re describing is contained at this time on the Mexico side of the border. It just isn’t in Texas and I challenge anyone to prove that other than the usual gang activity you see on the east coast, west coast or even middle America (Chicago, Minneapolis, St. Louis, etc.)
I can’t describe how torn I am between the overreaction on this case vs so many other cases of US tourists voluntarily – with full knowledge of all of the warnings/risks – yet going anyway. What really makes this any different? Nothing.
And I keep coming back to – Tiffany’s story doesn’t add up no matter how much modern or theoretical math I apply to it. It doesn’t.
So to sum up a different perspective from someone who also knows El Paso/Ciudad Juarez, McAllen/Reynosa, Brownsville/Matamoros – on the Mexican side, the risks of getting caught up in the crossfire or violence is greater than one I would take right now. However, I wouldn’t hesitate one second to spend time on the US side of any of those border cities.
Why does anyone assume that we’ve heard everything there is to hear from US law enforcement? Homeland Security would keep certain things close to the vest….like whether or not they flew over and surveyed the scene after it happened or were able to view it some other way. With the Mexican government having lost complete control of it’s own law enforcement and the cartels running the show, what makes someone think that the US law enforcement would divulge everything they know? Most of what’s been posted here about this incident comes from the media. What makes that information so valuable and trust worthy? Media people don’t lie? They don’t exaggerate? They don’t print things without verifying the information? They don’t twist things around to portray something in a more scandalous manner to get a bigger audience and higher ratings? And as far as body language….it can’t all be correct what those people say either. The truth is, some people, to include myself on occasion aren’t such good communicators and or are squirmers in their seats just because they are that type of nervous person. That doesn’t make them or me liars. Mexican cartel members and their flunkies have come into to El Paso a few times already just for the purpose of MURDERING people they consider to be “rats”.Murdered in their very own homes, their very own cars in the UNITED STATES. We are also now home to people who because of everything that has happened are now ,making their living by producing armor plated cars.
When something happens to you or someone you love by these evil cartel people what are you going to do and say? What are you going to say when you’re accused of lying or of having ulterior motives? I’m a faithful follower of this website and 99% of the time I am impressed by what people have to offer and say but when it comes to this particular incident….I hope you’re proven wrong. And if I’m thrown into exile from this site for my comments, so be it.