David Hartley Gunned Down On Jet Ski In Mexico : Tiffany Young-Hartley Facing Scrutiny
According to his wife, Tiffany Young-Hartley, who called 911, David Hartley, 30, was gunned down by Mexican pirates while the couple ventured across the Falcon Resovior lakes US border to take pictures of the “Mexican Atlantis” or Old Guerreo.
Hartley says her husband was shot in the head and as a result “flew” off his jet ski while the couple was returning from the landmark on the Mexican side of the lake, after taking pictures. She goes on to say she became aware of 3 different boats chasing down the couple only after she saw bullets hitting the water next to her. As she turned around to see where they were coming from, she claims she witnessed her husbands murder.
David was driving a new Sea Doo RXT ski that can climb from 0–30MPH in 1.7 seconds and is capable of top-end speeds of over 60 MPH. Blinkoncrime.com has not been able to confirm which model Ms. Hartley was driving. The couple had been on at least one earlier jet ski jaunt while still in Mexico, but was cut short due to a mishap with David’s craft on June 20th.
According to his wife, David was face-down in the water, wearing a life vest, after he was shot.
Despite the horror of what she had just witnessed and astonishingly avoiding injury to her or her watercraft, she circled back around, jumped off her jet ski, and turned her 250 lb. husband upright to observe the gunshot wound to his forehead. You read that correctly, according to Tiffany Hartley, while being chased from behind, David was shot from the front. Hartley maintains this is when she attempted to load him onto her jet ski, and also when two of the three boats were now positioned in front of her.
One of the alleged pirate boats from the front approached her within 10 ft. While she stared down the barrell of his gun, she was holding onto her husband with one hand, her ski with the other asking not to be shot. Apparently through some sort of Mexican telepathy or nautical sign language, the men who just ambushed the couple and murdered her husband in cold blood, made a decision to let her go and retreated IN FRONT OF HER.
Hartley claims she cannot identify any of the men, that they never said a word to her nor could she hear anything they may have said to each other, but believes the motive for the attack to be robbery or to kidnap her. It is not clear how Tiffany arrived at this conclusion as they never made an attempt to stop them or ask them for their money, she was off her $13,000 Sea doo they could have easily taken, and they let her go.
It was at this time that Hartley finally did hear something. She says she heard the voice of God tell her to leave David, save herself and get to safety. However, his instruction must have been non-specific because she proceeded to mount her ski in deep water, start it back up, and drive directly toward and then past the very band of gun weilding murderous cartel who minutes ago gunned down her highschool sweetheart and spouse of 8 years. (Editors note: I cannot imagine the nerve it takes to again have your back to the same crew who, unprovoked, sprayed the lake with bullets behind you while you were fleeing for your life).
While Tiffany admits the couple was aware of recent pirate activity in the area they learned about while David researched the location, she claims they had not heard of anymore incidents on Falcon Lake, which borders both Texas and Mexico, “in a while.”
The Hartley’s, who had recently been on a few tropical vacations, were in the process of relocating to Colorado next week from Reynosa, Mexico and McAllen Texas, where they had lived for only a few months, following David’s transfer request to Calfrac well services.
According to recent Facebook postings, although the couple could not agree on furniture tastes, they recently purchased a house full of it just after a luxury cruise and visit to a seminar for those experiencing financial difficulty.
I would love to be able to do no analysis and regergetate this story as reported by main stream media whereby not one reporter asks the obvious question:
After several known incidents of piracy in that location over the last months, why would the “pirates” suddenly go on a murderous rampage in lieu of attempting to rob a couple on jet skis that could outrun them on sight?
Not gonna happen. I have heard umpteen versions of Ms. Hartley’s version of events leading to the random execution of her husband.
None pass the smell test. However, just today, Zapata County Sheriff “Sigi” Gonzalez, Jr says his investigation, now aided by a witness who is a long standing member of the Zapata community, exonerates Mrs. Hartley of any wrongdoing.
Gonzalez completely rules out foul play on the part of Mrs. Hartley.
“A local witness saw Tiffany Hartley escaping on her jet-ski to the Texas side of the lake,” he said. “She came in at high speed and was being pursued by armed men in a Mexican fishing boat that that the witness clearly observed.”
Gonzalez said the witness was a long-standing member of the Zapata community who was well known to him and regarded as highly credible.
“The testimony of this witness dispels any idea Mrs. Hartley was involved in any wrongdoing regarding the murder of her husband,” he said firmly. “She called in a 911 phone call to our office at around 2:20 p.m. on the day of the incident, immediately after she got to shore, and her statements to my office confirm what the local witness observed.”
Unfortunately, the witness account does not match Tiffany Hartley’s own version of events. At no time has she ever said that she was again chased by the “pirates”, in fact, she claims she left them behind after driving “through” them.
Hartley references recent pirate activity, which is almost verbatim what she says happened to her and David, with the exception of the actual piracy:
On April 30, five people in two different boats were fishing on Falcon Lake and went to the Old Guerrero area, where they were taking photos of the old church. While they were there, a boat with four heavily tattooed men approached the two boats quickly. The men identified themselves as “Federales,” but they were not wearing uniforms. The men boarded the boats, demanded cash and asked “where are the drugs?” The fishermen told the men that they had no drugs and were just fishing and taking photos. They ended up giving the men $200 cash and left the area. The pirates followed the two boats, but the U.S. boats were able to outrun them and the men stopped following once the two boats entered U.S. waters.
In every recorded incident since April, the heavily tattoed pirates posing as “Federales” without uniforms, came upon anchored fishing boats, boarded them, robbed the fisherman at gunpoint of any personal cash, searched for drugs left without any violence. In the Hartley family interview on the Today show, Tiffany states that after David was hit, she circled around, jumped off her jetski, swam over to her husband and because he was “face down in the water” she had to turn him over where she discovered he was shot in the head.
It would seem I am not alone in my quagmire. Mexican Investigators, who hold jurisdiction have already begun to question Ms. Hartley’s story.
Marco Antonio Guerrero Carrizales, the district attorney for the Miguel Aleman Province adjoining Falcon Lake on the Mexican side, has questioned whether Tiffany Hartley was involved in foul play.
Early this morning, Sheriff Sigi Gonzalez announced the Mexican Authorities will be searching the area where David Hartley was murdered, and have committed to “not leaving” until they find him. Tiffany Hartley, accompanied by her parents, but without David’s, filed a missing person report at the Mexican Consulate last night as a matter of procedure to “get the ball rolling”.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates
Madeline Tanner, contributing editor blinkoncrime.com
Images by Klaasend
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I will be on Dana’s show tomorrow evening discussing the Hartley case. I am a fan of Pat’s, although I will say I have recently seen her be less-versed in cases she remarks on, than my other female fave, Candace Delong, but I think in this case, we are all on the same page. I also note, she is the first profiler on record to go public with that theory.
B
Blink I am new to Blog Radio. If I would like to listen to the program do I just go to the place I posted? This is new territory for me..Blog Radio. Also do you have a time. Eastern, Central? Thanks.
I will post a direct link on the fp later this afternoon. Show starts at 9PM EST, I am scheduled at about 9:25PM
B
I listened to TH last night talking to Anderson Cooper. Despite what the masses here say….she doesn’t sound devious to me at all. At most…she sounds like someone who is attempting to sound a lot more mature than she really is.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
” LPB says:
October 18, 2010 at 9:59 pm
This whole situation, IMHO, has turned into a border issue fight. Lets just say I’m tired of it and can we get back to brass tacks. TH has changed her story once again, ie neck vs. head, and one vs. two shots, and is now facing FBI scrutiny (I hope) for the past 2 days
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Of COURSE this is a Border Issue. It happened on the border did it not? It involved another country on our border, did it not? Aren’t the cartels at war with each other on the border and spilling over to the US a border issue? Well, I guess you can call it whatever you want but the fact is….IT IS a border issue as well as a murder.
So what about David’s and TH’s wedding rings!Trying to make something sinister out of that is dumb. My husband stopped wearing his wedding ring because he was electrocuted and anything metal he was wearing was burned into his skin. Men who work with their hands often don’t wear rings. And if TH was or is not wearing hers? So what.
The main thing I don’t get about postings here is…Why the blatant denials that things are what they are with Mexico? Despite what some say, the cartel wars and the lack of government and law enforcement in Mexico is a FACT. It wasn’t “made up” to insert into this story. It is not a racial issue. It has ZERO to do with Mexican people as an ethnic group. Criminals are criminals period. The MS13 gang from South America is here and has been here for a long time.When they are talked about on the news they are talked about as criminals, no one is ever talking about them as an ethnic group that deserves sympathy. You’d better get your heads out of the sand because this is all a very real security threat to the United States.
44.zinnia says:
October 19, 2010 at 8:19 am
If in fact DH was murdered and not just in hiding, could it be that it was a drug deal gone bad, like it has been suggested before? Could it be that the reason TH and her jetski were completely unharmed by the spray of bullets is because she wasn’t anywhere close to DH when he was killed? Maybe they both went out that way, but TH stayed a safe distance away while DH attempted a drug transaction, which went wrong. And because she was on her fast jetski and a good distance away, she was able to speed away from the turmoil when it went down. Maybe she saw DH get shot from a distance
*****************************************************************
I’ve thought about this scenerio too. I wish I had the time to create a “scenerio” chart/list of statements given by TH and weigh logic vs conspiracy. (Ins scam-vs-cartel murder-vs TH murder)
So many twists, turns, inconsistent statements & possible red herrings have really made me forget important facts that have been stated. Other thoughts I have pondered…
1. Drug deal, could have just bought drugs from someone in their town? Or were they delivering $$ to cartel, privacy of church?
2. If they were trafficing/exporting drugs for cartel, where would they store the packages on the jetskis? Drybox relatively small.
3. Since Reynosa where they prev lived, is closer to Matamoros. (SE of McAllen) If they were involved with Cartel…how do we know which group they really were really associated with because of TH lies.
4. Witness story is very hinky too. Has anyone besides the sheriff seen him? Who interviewed him for the video that was released? Hopefully our FBI will give us all of this info, when they are finished gathering their facts.
My gut feeling is it’s an insurance scam, so many “present tense” statements by TH, the comment on audio interview “what David did” and the fact that there is really no body, jetski, actual EVIDENCE. Evidence that she knows is not there. I think she is attempting to convey a message to her ins companies, thru MSM coverage, that she is trying to get evidence, but failing.
Something else hinky…she made comments about God making things happen for a reason, them being seen at Subway, stopped by cops. (Did God allow/make the shooting happen on the same day too?) I think the shore witness said something similar…about God/being on the shore that day. How strong of a christian was she? Did they make it to church every Sunday? So many more questions to list, but I’m running out of time…busy schedule today.
2.lee says:
October 19, 2010 at 10:53 am
” LPB says:
October 18, 2010 at 9:59 pm
This whole situation, IMHO, has turned into a border issue fight. Lets just say I’m tired of it and can we get back to brass tacks. TH has changed her story once again, ie neck vs. head, and one vs. two shots, and is now facing FBI scrutiny (I hope) for the past 2 days
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Of COURSE this is a Border Issue. It happened on the border did it not? It involved another country on our border, did it not? Aren’t the cartels at war with each other on the border and spilling over to the US a border issue? Well, I guess you can call it whatever you want but the fact is….IT IS a border issue as well as a murder.
So what about David’s and TH’s wedding rings!Trying to make something sinister out of that is dumb. My husband stopped wearing his wedding ring because he was electrocuted and anything metal he was wearing was burned into his skin. Men who work with their hands often don’t wear rings. And if TH was or is not wearing hers? So what.
The main thing I don’t get about postings here is…Why the blatant denials that things are what they are with Mexico? Despite what some say, the cartel wars and the lack of government and law enforcement in Mexico is a FACT. It wasn’t “made up” to insert into this story. It is not a racial issue. It has ZERO to do with Mexican people as an ethnic group. Criminals are criminals period. The MS13 gang from South America is here and has been here for a long time.When they are talked about on the news they are talked about as criminals, no one is ever talking about them as an ethnic group that deserves sympathy. You’d better get your heads out of the sand because this is all a very real security threat to the United States.
—————
Lee, repectfully, I see where you are coming from. I live in Houston, I read the paper, listen to the radio, have a brother in LE, a lawyer father who drums into my ears the border issue, etc…
But this is a murder case, not a border issue case (and believe me there IS a border security problem down here). Who murdered David Hartley? The crime was committed in Mexico, not in the US. This is what I mean by brass tacks…I try to stick with what I know going on in this case, and all I know is that a murder happened in Mexico, and noone seems to know who (and I mean names and faces) murdered David.
I do enjoy reading your posts Lee. MOOs all around
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29095730/
Over 200 Americans killed in Mexico since ’04
State Dept.: More lives lost than in any other country outside combat zones
msnbc.com news services msnbc.com news services
updated 2/9/2009 10:26:30 AM ET 2009-02-09T15:26:30
HOUSTON — More than 200 American citizens have been killed since 2004 in Mexico’s escalating wave of violence, amounting to the highest number of unnatural deaths in any foreign country outside military combat zones, according to the U.S. State Department.
Per my post from 2009 Permex Investigation…
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/6662216.html
-snip-
disguise shipments of the stolen condensate smuggled across the Texas border and stored at the Port of Brownsville.
-snip-
A. Anyone remember TH’s saying/posting FB about DH traveling to Brownsville or Edinburg often?
B. Then again, could David have been in a similiar SCENERIO as Crescenzi(see link)and been assisting in ICE case? (wild guess only)
Lee, with all due respect, calling people dumb here because they have questions about a story that is suspicious is disrespectful. Learn to scroll and roll, instead of insult posters here. If you want to blindly trust this woman and turn her story into a political issue, that’s your business. But people who read and post here are here because they have questions about what really happened. I don’t think a single poster here has said one thing about denying the huge problems at the border. I absolutely acknowledge that there are major problems that need to be dealt with.
Thank you for addressing what I failed to- Lee difference of opinion welcome, rude is not.
B
4.LPB says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 19, 2010 at 11:38 am
^^^^^POSSIBLE MURDER CASE (no body, etc…)
@Lee,
You know, it’s one thing for us to have disagreements and differing opinions on this blog but your earlier post on here telling us to pull our heads out of the sand is insulting. I joined this blog months ago during the Kyron Horman case because I was on another blog that just turned toxic. Can we please maintain our sense of civility and respect while disagreeing?
This is not a request it is a requirement, I trust we are all done with the snark, please.
B
oops, just realized zinnia and blink had already covered this, sorry for redundancy.
In my opinion – and I’m guilty of this too – I think we may be losing focus on this case of a person who crossed the border voluntarily with his wife – and disappeared off of the face of the earth. I refuse to even concede that he was murdered at this point.
There are all kinds of blogs (1,000′s) that scream about sending major military offenses to the borders, building giant walls or moats, arming civilian militia with automatic weapons and giving them license to shoot at will anywhere close to the areas where immigrants cross into the U.S., etc.
But this case – is simply a case of someone who was not harmed on the US side of the border – he disappeared IN MEXICO mysteriously – with one and only witness – his wife. And to be fair, it is her very own bizarre behavior, shifting and twisted versions of what happened and her sudden political message the conveniently plays right into the hands of so many with a political agenda. All the while supposedly “mourning” the “love of her life” while appearing on every single media outlet that will pin a mic to her shirt.
I live in Houston. I have no agenda other than understanding the truth about what happened to David. Hopefully the FBI have a pretty good idea by now -
10/05/10
LPB…my opinion is…TH’s goal is to turn it into a “border case”, and take the focus off of the “murder case.” Here’s one statement from her…there may have been prev statements, but this is one link I have handy. She has spoken more verbally against border issues, than the fact that it was their own decision to cross that border.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/family_of_alleged_falcon_lake_victim_says_its_time_to_speak_out_104360539.html?c=y&page=1#storytop
-snip PG 2- TH said///
“They need to have a realization, a wake-up call. … We need to get people down here. We need to get our Army and military and whoever. We need to double our Border Patrol and take back the lake. Why in the heck do they have that lake? They have most of that lake.”
NOTE:
Ummm…don’t know if TH is questioning boundry lines set by Texas War of Independence/Texas Revolution (lol)…or is her statment an indication that she indeed DID know that the lake was dangerous?
-snip- Someone wrote:
The main thing I don’t get about postings here is… It is not a racial issue. It has ZERO to do with Mexican people as an ethnic group.
**************************************************************
I can’t decipher who wrote this statement above…but I’d like to comment that I don’t recall ever reading any posts on this BOC Hartley topic that actually blamed RACE and ETHNICS..on the criminal facts of this story.
Per Tiffany on Anderson last night…anyone see the quick smile at the beginning again? (body language response between man & woman.)
Also, I think she appears to be medicated…if she wasn’t before. Sorry, don’t mean to insult anyone…just an observation. I know I would need pharmaceutical assistance if our roles were reversed. Have a great day everyone.
In response to Cadillac’s question: “Which scenario is scarier?”
My comment from Sunday, Oct. 17 still stands.
I can’t speak for anyone else but I would rather this man’s fate have come from his poor taste in women or because of his own criminal activity than to know he was just a random innocent person who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The latter is far more frightening to me.
Zinnia’s theory about Tiffany not being in the immediate proximity of David when he was shot is what I’ve been thinking all along too. I think she was hanging back behind some high grass or something and watching David take care of the transaction from afar. The “pirates” may have noticed her and got “spooked”. That’s when things turned ugly and that is when Tiffany fled. She can’t keep her story straight about when she went to see about David because SHE DIDN’T go see about him. She got the hell out of there and she revealed herself quite clearly when she did. They chased her but she had to much of a head start.
She is lying because what David and she were doing out their was illegal (guns or drugs). She is lying about going to see about him because she doesn’t want to look like the self-absorbed bitty that she really is. I have no doubt that she was more worried about her own butt than David’s. I know her type. I am sure a lot of us do.
She is not demanding justice for the killers of David because if they are brought to justice, she will be as well. That would be better left alone. She really didn’t want to David to be killed but that’s done. Now she is just trying to make the most of the situation as it is. She wanted this over and done with quickly and figured it would be with her nice little neat story and all. She didn’t figure in what a bad liar she would turn out to be.
Obviously, the only thing she needs the body back for is proof of death for the insurance. She didn’t kill him or have him killed to get it but that doesn’t mean the insurance money is not important to her. It is absolutely important! But you can’t really blame her for that. Still for all those who believe this is an insurance scam, it would be interesting to see if any policies that he held were set to terminate on the last day of September.
The wedding rings couldn’t really have any significance in my opinion and the horrible, corrupt mess that is Mexico is just a secondary detail to this particular event. He could have been killed because of his involvement in criminal activity in Panama City, Florida or Detroit, Michigan. Just because things are very very dangerous on the Mexican border doesn’t prove that David’s death was caused by only that. His decisions regardless of locale, in my opinion are why he met the fate that he did.
UGGGGG!
there- a position or location
their- plural possessive pronoun
See- I do know which one to use. It is just that my fingers won’t listen to my brain!
@LBP – I’m with you.
@Lee – This case is NOT a border issue. Yes we have a border issue, but this is a whole separate issue, a murder that (supposedly) happened NOT because anyone from Mexico crossed OUR border, but because these two people chose to go THERE – they could have gone to Cabo San Lucas or Mazatlan and David could have been murdered there. Would you then call it a border issue? No. Mexico is Mexico, whether on the border or on the southern tip of the country. Once you step foot into another country, all bets are off and the U.S. can’t guarantee that you will be protected, no matter where in that country you are. So don’t try to combine the two, they are two completely separate issues.
P.S. Respectfully, we are not as dumb at BOC as you think we are. You need to hang out for awhile and read. Sometimes it’s the tiniest little detail or piece of evidence that blows a case wide open, so it’s appropriate to question EVERYTHING.
Oops, maybe I was agreeing with the wrong person. Ok I’m not sure who was stating it was or was not a border issue, whether Lee or LBP, but I stand by my previous comment that it is NOT.
My intention is not to be rude…sarcastic, maybe. Funny how my comments are viewed. You’d think that I was the lurker McIntyre (whatever his name is)idiot who constantly inserts into blogs how Casey Anthony is innocent.
David Hartley was murdered. It happened on the border of Mexico/Texas. It is not the first time such a thing has happened nor is it the last. It cannot be called a murder only, it is a border issue whether you like it or not. Warring cartels on the border of the United States that also involves citizens of the United States…dictates that it qualifies as a border issue. If you want to keep talking about the rings…go ahead. I guess if Jose Baez can attempt to insert a bunch of nothingness into the case against Casey Anthony, I guess others can do the same in this case.
I think the issue is dual, I agree, but I don’t think I want anyone condemned or called names for any reason.
You have brought up some valid points, please don’t do the passive aggressive thing, it is my absolute pet peeve in life.
Let’s move on, all productive.
B
I have a hard time buying into the land theory. We know TH returned to the US on a jet ski (per GS). If she and DH went onto land at some point, that would entail tying up her jet ski or beaching it. She’d have to be Rambo to outrun the cartel and be able to reach her jet ski, untie it and remove rope, or move it into water if beached (800 pounds), start it up and race away. I think that’s why too many steps to pull off when you are literally running for your life. Just my opinion for what it’s worth…I’d love to hear your thoughts.
@chiapet- believe you were agreeing with me, LPB.
13.crimesolver says:
October 19, 2010 at 12:26 pm
10/05/10
___________
LPB…my opinion is…TH’s goal is to turn it into a “border case”, and take the focus off of the “murder case.” Here’s one statement from her…there may have been prev statements, but this is one link I have handy. She has spoken more verbally against border issues, than the fact that it was their own decision to cross that border.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/family_of_alleged_falcon_lake_victim_says_its_time_to_speak_out_104360539.html?c=y&page=1#storytop
-snip PG 2- TH said///
“They need to have a realization, a wake-up call. … We need to get people down here. We need to get our Army and military and whoever. We need to double our Border Patrol and take back the lake. Why in the heck do they have that lake? They have most of that lake.”
NOTE:
Ummm…don’t know if TH is questioning boundry lines set by Texas War of Independence/Texas Revolution (lol)…or is her statment an indication that she indeed DID know that the lake was dangerous?
——
I am with you 110% on this theory! I always thought there was alot of scapegoating going on, while justice for the murderers go to the wayside.
P.S.Eeck, I think she she was talking about the actual boundry line, but I shudder at that thought LOL!
crimesolver says:
October 19, 2010 at 12:26 pm
10/05/10
So many twists, turns, inconsistent statements & possible red herrings have really made me forget important facts that have been stated. Other thoughts I have pondered…
———————
The Sis, said, her brother-in-law, is going to get an AK47,(FB)
I am going to call it a rumor (to cover my can) I read this on
WS a few weeks ago on their thread.
Crimestopper, Perhaps, a gun deal? video’s? Did he sell him one
of his vehicles and didn’t get compensated? I am going to keep an open mind.
She was guarding the jetski when this went down, more than likely.
Why isn’t she more angry? Someone took this lovely man’s life, and
she can wait, to get on with her life. The Outlaws, have assurance
from her, that can go-on with their lives, too, how generous of her.
I’m hanging out on the fence today. I actually want to believe TH. DH seems like a nice guy, I picture him as the big teddy bear kind of guy that everyone likes. They seem to be in love (vacation photos), involved in their church, etc. They are young and adventurous, and DH has worked his way up in his company. I really want to believe the story (not that I want a tragic ending).
She keeps appearing on show after show and my gosh I’m starting to question how she could do this if she’s lying. She’s held up pretty well under 16 hours of meetings with the Feds and Mexican police – could she do that if she was deceiving them? She doesn’t even have an attorney – which defies logic. But again, would she go without an attorney if she had something to do with all of this? She’s awfully brazen if she is hiding something.
Granted, she talks in circles a lot, but could this have to do with her general speech/grammar habits and not because she is guilty? Some of us are over-explainers by nature.
In contrast, we have the other “TH” who made the news constantly this summer. It appears that she isn’t speaking out, giving interviews or asking for anything to be returned to her. She’s pretty much disappeared. All of her behavior supports my belief about her involvement (my opinion only). It all lines up.
Can someone push me off the fence?
Mermaid14, sorry about the MSM thing- Yes I have looked into the Osama thing- It makes me wonder about the MSM putting his name out so swiftly when, the FBI will not mention his name in connection due to lack of evidence- as you pointed out..
crimesolver- thanks for alerting me to the pic- David looks so happy and young in that wedding photo…
The rings MAY be important because Tiffany may have made them important by mentioning them- We are all trying to get to the truth of what happened to David IN MEXICO- not on the border, but IN Mexico.
As to whether or not David was ‘murdered’ respectfully we can’t say- No evidence has been given that supports this conclusion- other than Tiffany’s word- and saying that this type of thing happens all the time around here, is not evidence to back up Tiffany’s accountS- especially so much so that LE and the media, and the public can not question the inconsistencies of Tiffany’s ‘story’-
I mean if a history of violence in an area was all LE needed to NOT investigate- then anyone could perpetrate a crime in any of America’s most crime filled cities and blame it on the criminal element in that area…
No one is debating the fact that there is a problem with cartels, or drug running, border issues ect- we all agree on this-
What we don’t know- and can’t agree on-is if any of these things are part of what happened to David- all we know right now is that Tiffany Hartley, the last known person to see her husband- has stated that he was shot in Mexico and that she fled- keep in mind EVERY detail has changed surrounding the specifics-
if they were aware of the dangers
Where David was shot-
how many times-
How many people-
if she begged to be let go-
God spoke to her
if she tried to get David on her ski-
if she was in the water, off her ski at the time-
if they were shooting as she fled-
if she had to pass through them to get to the border-
if they spoke at all- ect
ect
ect.
The only thing that hasn’t changed in her story is she was looking at a “gun” keep in mind David and she were gun enthusiasts-
they were there to take pics
He was a history buff
and he was shot and she wasn’t.
It is not wrong to ask questions- especially when there have been so many contradictions in what happened.
It is not a witch hunt to ask for a thorough investigation into what happened to David Hartley. JMO
20.Intrigued says:
October 19, 2010 at 1:47 pm
I have a hard time buying into the land theory
********************************************************************
Previously we debated this, and came up with the same conclusion….. that they would have both been murdered & jetski’s stolen. We posted scenerios, and “tossed ideas” around trying to determine if the jetski ride to church for pics, like TH stated….was in fact the real reason they were on the lake that day. (History/photo lover vs time spent at location.) DH would have wanted to get as many photos of all buildings, TH claims they only took pics “from jetskis for 5 minutes. Great minds think alike, huh?
http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/hartely-118203-hope-lost.html
“Hartley’s family has not lost hope despite no official developments”
Snipped:
The incident has garnered international attention — first because some officials cast doubt on her harrowing account, then because a Mexican investigator in the case was beheaded and most recently because Mexican authorities have temporarily stopped searching for the presumed body.
Throughout the course of the investigation, several law enforcement agencies and private entities, including Austin-based think tank STRATFROR, have come forward to try to shed some light on the disappearance.
The most recent theory, provided by a prominent McAllen private investigator this weekend, places the blame on the “Zetitias,” or low-ranking members of the Zeta cartel, but the family has grown tired of theories.
“There’s a lot of different theories out there,” said Bob Young, Hartley’s father-in-law. “And ’till we have confirmation, I can’t say much one way or the other. Theories make for good news, but it doesn’t do us any good, really.”
—- I disagree with the first sentence-”The incident has garnered international attention — first because some officials cast doubt on her harrowing account”
In the beginning most weren’t questioning anything- IMO it was the few in the media(hi again Blink) that were questioning what happened- The sheriff said at the time there is no evidence that she is lying she is distraught I believe her 110%
Why is the new Neck shot not mentioned in this article? Is it still officially head shot?
Tiffany’s dad seems to be right on board with moving on- Do these people understand how callous they sound? Or am I too sensitive?
Snipped:
A motive, he said, is not what the family is looking for.
“It doesn’t matter how or who or why this happened,” he said. “The main thing is we just want to get David back. There’s people that know where (the body) is, and all we really want is David’s remains so that people can move forward and get on with their lives.”
Young says the family has not lost hope.
“Hand over the remains and we can be good,” he said. “That’s really all we want.”
We cannot state as fact that David Hartley was murdered. We have no evidence of that, no body, no blood or tissue evidence, no jetski, only one witness who did not see David, he only saw Tiffany.
In a court of law that would be considered “hearsay”. We have only the word of Tiffany Hartley and her word has changed since her first retelling of the event.
We seem to have a revenge killing of an investigator, but again, his role in this whole scenario is not certain either, and neither is the motive for killing him, only an implied motive, that the drug cartels killed him out of revenge for naming two possible suspects.
We don’t have a motive for the alleged killing of David Hartley either.
We DON’T have more than we HAVE which makes for a troubling scenario. Perhaps this is why officials on the Mexico side are so hesitant to go after anyone yet.
22.S.H. says:
October 19, 2010 at 2:32 pm
+++++++++++++
OHHHH
What if they were trading his jetski for the drugs, or gun, ect, and he was on the same one as her, while they were trying to get away after the deal went wrong/bad! That would explain why she says tried to get him BACK on her ski.
According to this CBS link, TH was questioned AGAIN yesterday for another 8 hours. (16 hours total)
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/19/earlyshow/main6971650.shtml
The article mentions that this was questioning done by the Mexican authorities – I sure hope that the FBI is involved with these interviews as well.
Some interesting points in the article:
Quote from Sheriff Sigi … “I think what they’re really trying to do is trying to discourage her from filing the complaint.”
HUH??
WHY does Sheriff Sigi remain so adamant in his total belief in TH’s hinky version(s) of that days events?
He seems to not want any formal investigation of David’s death – happy to just accept TH’s ever-changing story of what happened.
I highly doubt that just accepting the word of the last known person to see a victim alive is the way he normally investigates a murder case.
Especially when the only witness to the alleged murder keeps changing the details and her version of events.
TH also states that she’s anxious to move back to Colorado – but that she “can’t just yet”.
Hmm?? Wonder if LE/FBI has requested that TH remain in Texas until this is straightened out?
Interesting statement analysis of the above story @ http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/
@Lee or LPB (not sure who said it)
Just a small thing but your reference to MS-13 as being a South American gang is incorrect. MS-13 is Mara Salvatrucha…Salvatrucha meaning from El Salvador. El Salvador is not in South America, it is in Central America. Someone else on this blog or another one actually placed Mexico in South America. Mexico is a North American country, along with the U.S. and Canada. Just a little geography 101.
BTW for those who keep parroting Tiffany’s claim that we need to secure our borders and that this is a “border issue,” I would ask, do you mean that Mexico should do a better job of securing its borders against American tourists? From what I read, the American Hartleys crossed over into Mexico and David was allegedly killed on their soil. Even the “bad guy/Mexicans/cartel guys” on the boats were more respectful of the border than the Hartleys…they chased sweet little Tiffany only to the edge of the Mexican border but did not cross.
I just do not understand this “give us a body” crap. Seriously? This is your husband, SIL??? Are these people without hearts? I have more compassion for this man and I’ve never met him. I just pray (figuratively) she doesn’t get money for this. I am astounded by her behavior MSM’s handling of this.
@ crimesolver says:
October 19, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Per Tiffany on Anderson last night…anyone see the quick smile at the beginning again? (body language response between man & woman.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yep, saw it -he is kinda handsome tho. What I found extremely bizarre was what she stated in the NBC Today Show interview about wearing his wedding ring. [2:14] Tiff “It’s gonna always forever be on there [hesitate]for til the day I have to decide I need to take it off.”
HUH? I guess in that moment, and in her current grief, she realized that soon she will remarry or something?
And, she says several times on this last round that she will not leave the area without his body…”We’re not goin’ anywhere until David’s home.” But then also on the NBC Today Show, she allows reporters to set up a contrived display of her packing her house, (Her mother having a cameo walk-on bit part) and said she may even leave as soon as today…
http://www.hulu.com/watch/186204/nbc-today-show-police-probe-new-clues-in-lake-shooting-case
Cricket says:
October 19, 2010 at 1:07 pm
UGGGGG!
there- a position or location
their- plural possessive pronoun
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And don’t forget “They’re” =they are
We all making typos…:-)
“Eats, Shoots, and Leaves” is a great book for clarity
-@ Mom3.0 says:
October 19, 2010 at 3:53 pm
re:
I disagree with the first sentence-”The incident has garnered international attention — first because some officials cast doubt on her harrowing account”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IMO the reason why this incident has gotten international attention is because TH said the words “this is a border issue” right up front.. It went from DH being a missing & killed (?) person to “this is a border issue” to paraphrase TH before day 2..
Chia, LBP and others- I agree, the Hartley incident is not rooted in being a border issue. Discussion on Blink on Crime is not centered around border issues. This blog is about the case. I think we can all agree that Mexico is facing some huge challenges, Americans are not safe and have been warned by the government about entering Mexico, and our borders definitely need continual and vigilant attention. Just for perspective, I would like to point something out.
When a crime occurs, often a number of socio-economic/community/public health & safety factors are at play, and get stirred up.
That said, take the case of Kyron Horman. He disappeared from an elementary school nearly 5 months ago. Something that has been discussed and addressed as a result of that case is that schools need increased accountability in terms of security.
HOWEVER, never once did Desiree Young or Kaine Horman stand on a soap box and shout “Our son is missing and possibly dead -and we need every school in America to pay attention and increase their security now! And we need President Obama to call us, and tell us personally that he understands the importance of child safety in public schools!”
No they did not. Because despite the public concerns surrounding this case, Kyron’s parents remain focused on their part: Their son, Kyron Horman -Their focus is on bringing him home, and ensuring that justice is served. BOC’s focus is the same -trying to get to TRUTH, and hoping and praying that justice will be served handsomely.
Take the Zahra Baker horrific story. This case has shed light on mandate reporting, and community, “turning a blind eye.” And people are talking about that (good). But the focus remains on finding Zahra, and seeking justice for her.
You can take many other cases on BOC and point out that (among other things) that drugs, poverty, lack of education, child abuse, hate, ad nauseum are factors in the deaths of innocent children. Yes, those are all public concerns, concerns that states, governments, communities, police officers, firemen, military, ministries, social workers, etc. are working hard every day to address and improve.
Because we are questioning Tiffany Hartley’s, “story” does not take away from the need for safe borders anymore than we need safe public schools. It is my opinion that Tiff is using her tragedy (whatever that is) to soap box -either on her own accord, or with encouragement (hmmmm)- a huge national safety concern of security, drugs and violence.
My God -I was astounded when I heard Tiffany’s mother on camera yesterday saying this: “David died for a cause. The cause is to secure the border. [and get him home number one, but the border needs to be secure.]
Really? Our soldiers choose to enlist, and some die for a CAUSE -our freedom. Many others die for causes they believe strongly in as well.
David Hartley did not die for a CAUSE, he died BE-CAUSE he was an adventure-seeking jackass who used poor judgment and put himself in a dangerous situation in a documented area of high crime.
We have a big problem with public housing in the US -but you don’t see me walking the streets of Cabrini-Green. MOO, just my perspective. Thanks for listening.
http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=527960
KB in OR says:
October 19, 2010 at 5:41 pm
I just do not understand this “give us a body” crap. Seriously? This is your husband, SIL???
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
Seriously -it was worse than that -yesterday she said she would be happy just for some DNA. Huh?
PS. What does SIL mean?
PS. I am not certain 100%, but many have referred over the past few days that Tiff met with US FBI for hours and hours. It is my understanding that she only met in an official capacity with the Mexican state and national authorities AT the local FBI center.
http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=527960
And, I want to note that on one interview she actually spoke against her staunchest supporter -Sheriff Sigi. He has insisted over and over that they interrogated her and tried to intimidate her. She said this was not the case at all. So, the truth is likely in the center -Sheriff knows what they are like, and TYH is just perhaps naive, and the interviewers were clever in their approach. idk.
@ Madilu says:
October 19, 2010 at 7:14 pm
So very well put.. Thank you ♥
[...] Blogger Blink from Blink On Crime discussing the death and disappearance of David Hartley on the US-Mexico border at Falcon Lake where Hartley’s wife claims he was murdered by [...]
[...] Blogger Blink from Blink On Crime discussing the death and disappearance of David Hartley on the US-Mexico border at Falcon Lake where Hartley’s wife claims he was murdered by [...]
Madilu, I hear you. As another example, Morgan Harrington did NOT die for a cause. Her wonderful family is trying to make her life (and death) more meaningful by doing good in her name, but that is entirely another matter.
Unless, of course, David was undercover, and took his wife along on an assignment. Although last time I heard, I don’t think you can get those jobs with no military background and a GED.
My first thought when I saw the shot-in-the-neck story was that after what happened to the poor investigator, TYH was afraid that they would return DH’s unshot head.
Don’t post if that’s too gruesome, but that was my gut reaction.
And I’m even still-on-the-fence as to what went down.
Here’s a thought. If one was to be heading to a drug deal would they do it with expired plates?
I have thought drug deal or something illegal from the get go. But would somebody in “that world” risk being stopped if there was something in the truck that could be found? I would think at the border they are really into sniffing cars, trucks, boats.
I don’t know. With this case the faster I go the behinder I get.
Dee, per your question on #30…go back and re-read several pages of previous posts….you will find the answer(s) there. Have a great evening!
New Hartley post up!
31.Dee says:
October 19, 2010 at 5:14 pm
@Lee or LPB (not sure who said it)
—————
@Dee, you are referring to Lee. Just to set the record straight
30.Dee says:
October 19, 2010 at 5:14 pm
BTW for those who keep parroting Tiffany’s claim that we need to secure our borders and that this is a “border issue,” I would ask, do you mean that Mexico should do a better job of securing its borders against American tourists? From what I read, the American Hartleys crossed over into Mexico and David was allegedly killed on their soil. Even the “bad guy/Mexicans/cartel guys” on the boats were more respectful of the border than the Hartleys…they chased sweet little Tiffany only to the edge of the Mexican border but did not cross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Dee, love reading your posts. Actually, the thugs who have robbed/attempted to rob U.S. citizens on that lake have little respect for the border markers that separate U.S. from Mexican waters. In one of the robberies that occurred on Lake Falcon earlier this year, the “pirates” crossed into U.S. waters and boarded a U.S. fishing boat with several people on board. There were a couple of other incidents as well. So, even before the Hartley’s incident occurred there were clearly “border issues” on Falcon. In addition, IIRC the witness who observed Tiffany coming in did indicate she was followed by a boat into the U.S. side. The boat eventually turned around and headed back to Mexico.
As we sit here pouring over these details and trying to make sense of everything, I am so saddened by the thought that David may never be found. Nobody deserves that fate. And his family deserves our deepest sympathy, IMO.
39.Madilu says:
October 19, 2010 at 7:14 pm
^^^^^^^^^^
Well said Madila. Everyone has made some excellent posts. I am a bit behind and need to go back to review further. I will say I believe the US is looking at this case, they are just keeping their mouths shut at this point. I hate to say it, but I think this is a drug deal. Maybe they were resigning their ‘position’ and that wasnt appreciated. I am suspect on the pull over by LE prior to this event, I mean what are the odds? I wish we could have heard it all more clearly and could have seen what they saw, re tags, registration etc.
The only thing I can think of for SIL is sister in law, but it doesnt fit in the context.??
So what happens next? What happens if Davids body is not found? Does his family have to request for a US FBI investigation – or will they step in and investigate anyway?
To me, it seems the family doesn’t want justice, they just want this to go away so they can move on. (Ins scam & they know he is alive?)